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North Korea, Hollywood Scandal
Aired November 2, 2017 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN HOST: You're listening to the national security director talk about President Trump's visit to Asia and the threat from
North Korea. In a moment we get the North Korean view, at least that of a defector.
Tonight, North Korea's most high profile defector on why he turned his back on the regime.
THAE YONG HO, FORMER NORTH KOREAN DIPLOMAT: I do not want to let me sons lead a life like me which is nothing but a modern slave.
AMANPOUR: Plus, he tells me how President Trump could avoid military conflict on the Korean Peninsula. Also ahead, we are live from 10 Downing
Street as the sexual harassment scandal that's rocked Hollywood raises its ugly head in the heart of Westminster. And, the legendary singer, film
star and model Grace Jones on the abuse she once faced as revealed in her new film Bloodlight and Bami.
Good evening, everyone and welcome to the program. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. As Donald Trump prepares to make his first presidential trip to
Asia his national security advisor calls North Korea a global threat.
H.R. MCMASTER, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: President Trump will reiterate the plain fact that North Korean threatens not just our allies South Korea
and Japan and the United States, North Korea is a threat to the entire world. So, all nations of the world must do more to counter that threat.
AMANPOUR: But how? The question of Kim Jong Un's real agenda has baffled many across the globe. Now, we're getting a much clearer picture. Thae
Yong Ho once worked for the North Korean leadership. A high level diplomat. He was deputy ambassador here in the U.K. When he defected last
summer, along with his wife and two sons, he became the highest ranking official to do so in 20 years.
Thae warns that Kim thinks he can force the United States to accept his as a nuclear power. And that it's imperative that the United States step up
its information campaign into the north. Thae also confirms South Korea's intelligence warnings that Kim may be about to make another provocative
I spoke to Thae Yong Ho following his briefings to Capitol Hill in Washington. Welcome to the program.
HO: Thank you. Hello.
AMANPOUR: I want to start by asking you, you were in Congress testifying. Why do you think it was important right now? What was the message you were
trying to get across to American lawmakers/
HO: I tried to tell American lawmakers that before taking any militant directions (ph) against North Korea we have to reconsider whether we have
used all necessary nonmilitary means.
AMANPOUR: What do you think the United States and the west should be doing and do you think that the U.S. is actually planning military measures
against North Korea?
HO: At this moment the mood for our ability of militant (ph) direction is high (ph) and North Korea is also - is going to provoke any moment any soon
(ph). So, that's why I think it is very important to avoid any possible nuclear conflict on Korean Peninsula.
AMANPOUR: Well, absolutely. That would be the worse possible development in the history of mankind. So, what do you think the U.S., the west should
HO: I think first of all the U.S. and west should continue the current momentum of maximum pressure and sanction but on the meanwhile the west and
the U.S. try every possibility to open the dialog with North Korea in order to tell the North Korea that they would be destroyed if they continue the
current foreign (ph) directions.
AMANPOUR: Now, obviously President Trump has said that. So has Secretary Mattis. They've said that publically. Do you believe President Trump
should meet with Kim Jong Un?
HO: I think so. At least President Trump should meet Kim Jong Un at least once before taking any military actions against North Korea.
AMANPOUR: The problem with what you're saying is that North Korea is already a nuclear state by and large. Do you believe what CNN has been
reporting that North Korea is working on an advanced version of its existing KN-20 intercontinental ballistic missile and this apparently could
potentially reach the United States?
And also North Korean officials telling CNN that they may very well try to conduct an above ground nuclear test, is that about to happen?
HO: I think so. Kim Jong-Un is determined to reach the goal of nuclear status as well as ICBM cap with nuclear war heads. That's why I think we
should continue the current momentum of sanctions and pressure.
But we should even further expand the targeted sanctions against North Korea. In order to tell that Kim Jong-Un and North Korean regime that the
nuclear status of North Korea cannot break the sanction regime of the United Nations. And if they are on this direction then the final day of
North Korea could be the total destruction.
AMANPOUR: If President Trump, you know talks about fire and fury and calls Kim Jong-Un little rocket man, if Kim Jong-Un is calling President
Trump mentally deranged (dotard)ph, how is this going to develop? How is it going to end?
HO: I think we have to admit that all those unpredictability and rhetoric's made by Trump anyhow are stopped in Kim Jon-Un's further
provocations of firing missiles around Guam. But after the rhetoric words by President Trump like fury and fire then he actually didn't provoke any
missiles around Guam. That is why the unpredictability of President Trump worked to some extent.
But now I think that kind of exchange of rhetoric warnings or whatever are not necessary and the most important thing is to deliver the policy
messages towards North Korea.
AMANPOUR: Why did you decide to defect? What was the turning point for you?
HO: Oh it's a little bit complicated. The reason, but mainly I do not want to let my sons lead a life like me which is nothing but modern slave.
AMANPOUR: You have family still in North Korea. What do you think is their fate?
HO: I'm not quite sure what happens now, but I was happy to watch the interviews made by CNN team during their visit last April. They
interviewed my sister and my brother. And so far I think they look okay.
AMANPOUR: Even though they denounced you very, very violently to CNN.
HO: Yes, I watched all the interviews but it made me very happy because I was able to see the faces and the praise where the interview took place I
learned that it was actually the house of my sister. And I was very pleased to see their faces again. I never imagined that I could see their
faces again in my life. That's why I really appreciate for the work by CNN.
AMANPOUR: Well let me ask you this, then. When you told your wife and your sons, who were with you in England that you were going to defect and
life was going to change, were they scared? Were they happy? What was their reaction? .
HO: They were very happy because my sons have a long dream of freedom and wanted to continue the freedom, but as sons they cannot tell their dreams
to me. When they heard my decision then they were very happy and really appreciated that decided to let them free.
AMANPOUR: And finally, given the state of affairs between America and North Korea, where as a diplomat do you see the parameters for any
HO: North Korea is not the subject for destruction. I think we should regard North Korea as a subject of change, and if our goal on Korean
peninsula is peace that's why the means to achieve that goal must be peaceful. And I think we should continue the maximum pressure together
with maximum engagement. And the United States should find a way to solve these issues in peaceful means.
AMANPOUR: What country does North Korea rely on to keep it afloat? There are draconian sanctions on North Korea.
HO: Yes, there are many countries. First of all, I have to say China is the main trade partner of North Korea, but also some American allies are
actually helping North Korea to survive like the Middle Eastern countries where thousands - tens of thousands (of) North Korean workers are working,
and the income they've got in those countries are actually channeling to the nuclear and (iStamp) development in North Korea and also some countries
in Africa and even some European countries.
European detachments (uplined) on the North Korea's elicited activities like renting their embassy office buildings to European companies. So I
think we should try to stop all these - the channels which can be very favorable to North Korea's (country nation) of nuclear and RSVM
AMANPOUR: Former ambassador, Thae Yong-ho, thank you so much for joining me.
HO: Thank you very much. You've done a good job.
AMANPOUR: I need another job. An important glimpse into this very secretive nation at this incredibly high pressure time. Still to come on
the program, the latest from the British government on what could be the tipping point to end sexual misconduct in Westminster. Plus, I speak to
the iconic Grace Jones. She knows a thing or two about sexual abuse and harassment in show biz, and her new documentary is out. It's about life in
the spotlight. That's next.
Welcome back to the program, and the flood gates are open after dozens of sexual harassment and rape allegations brought down Hollywood producer
Harvey Weinstein. Westminister's own sexual harassment scandal has now reached the very top of the British government. After Defense Secretary,
Sir Michael Fallon, became the country's first politician to quit, saying in a letter to the prime minister that his behavior in the past may have
fallen short of the standards expected by the UK military that he leads. The unfolding saga prompted Scotland's Tory leader, Ruth Davidson, to say
"enough is enough."
RUTH DAVIDSON, MEMBER OF THE SCOTTISH PARLIAMENT: The dam has broken on this now, and these male dominated professions - overwhelmingly male
dominated professions where the boys on locker room culture has prevailed, and it's all be a bit of a laugh has got to stop.
AMANPOUR: So joining now with more from Downing Street is CNN's Diana Magnay. Diana, does - do you feel that this is "enough is enough?" Is it
the end of this now?
DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well I think that the allegations are going to keep on coming. There is so much media attention around this.
But that said, if you listen to what Sir Michael Fallon said in one of his resignation interviews he said the culture of 10 or 15 years ago, what was
acceptable then is simply not acceptable now.
And clearly what is also not acceptable is that, within parliament, there has been so little support for people to come forward in an anonymous way
and talk about the grievances, the things that may have happened to them, without fearing repercussions to their career. And that is clearly
changing as well as a culture which has involved the abusive power in this profession and parliament just as it has in Hollywood as well, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: And either you're standing outside the Prime Minister's residence. Is there a sense that other cabinet ministers may fall or that
she's in some political trouble having lost a key ally in Michael Fallon.
MAGNAY: Well she's gained a key ally in the cabinets in Gavin Williamson who once had chief with. And again the chief with is in a also a very
important role given her very slim majority in parliament he is the man who corralled and pieced the votes for her, and his deputy has moved into that
role. So it has been fairly seamless to date. Or is of course must be a concern to her. It's the idea that there are still two ministers who are
under investigation. Who suppose it's actually harassment issues and that - she must fear that more is still to come.
AMANPOUR: Diana Magnay, thank you so much. As this unfolds in Westminster and potentially a tipping point is achieved. We're moving on to Grace
Jones, now when she famously sang Pull Up to my Bumper Baby she surely didn't mean without consent, and if this crisis has proved anything it's
that nobody is immune to the horrors of harassment and abuse, including the iconic and iconic class that Grace Jones herself.
She's known for her fears and fearless strength, but when she joined me earlier today to talk about her new documentary Blood Light and Bami. The
disco queen told me how she suffered abuse as a child, and as a young woman struggling to get into show biz. Grace Jones welcome to the program.
GRACE JONES, ICON AND ICONOCLAST: Thank you, thank you.
AMANPOUR: It's good to have you here, and I actually want to start by asking you given that you have spent your life in show biz, in modeling, in
film, you know on stage. This hurricane of revelations of sexual abuse, especially against young women coming up through the system. Can you
identify with what's going on now?
JONES: I totally identify with it because it happened to me when I was going to get my first big part, and it was a small part, but for me it was
a big part. And I already had the part. I remember Ozzy Davis, was his first film he was directing, and the producer came and said to meet him at
his place because that was not the last word. Ozzy didn't have the last word. I had to bring my portfolio to him, and when I got to his house, and
I don't remember his name, thank god. And he poured some champagne he was in his bathrobe and of course took me to a room. Which of course I didn't
know his house, and it was his bedroom. So with the champagne even then at that young age I was I splashed it in his face.
AMANPOUR: Good for you.
JONES: I threw it in his face, and walked out the door.
AMANPOUR: And they never messed with Grace Jones again.
JONES: I got flowers the next day from the same guy.
AMANPOUR: So is it a power thing, or a sager(ph) thing what is it?
JONES: It is a power thing, it is a power thing because this person obviously can't get - get it in the normal route. Or he has no patience, I
don't know. Or he feels he doesn't have to do that..
AMANPOUR: Or he's got control over a young girl's future.
JONES: And that feeling of I had the last word. That's what really upset me is that if I knew I had the ropes with Ozzy, but to say to me "No, I had
the last word" is what he said. And you don't get it unless you go through me.
AMANPOUR: And you threw the champagne, you got the flowers. What about other young girls who you've come across. Do they - obviously not many of
them have the same set of cahones or temperament as you.
JONES: All I can say.it's a really difficult call because when you're in that position you're so vulnerable. You're so nervous, you want this break
so badly, because you've been banging away at the pavement probably some longer than others. And you'll finally think I've made it to the big time.
This is my way, the door is open. And now you have a monster to confront.
AMANPOUR: How much fun was it when you were in your - in the height of your singer, disco, you know that - you owned the stage, and you owned that
world at that time.
JONES: Well, I took a lot of chances. I just did what I felt like doing. I went against if someone said to me "Go right" I went left because left
felt better for me, going right fit better for them. So a lot of times you're told to go in a certain direction and that direction, and you're
looking up to these people you know because they are advising you for example, but a lot of times they have their own agendas. And and.
AMANPOUR: Your beautiful picture we're watching there.
JONES: Follow your own, you just, I just followed my own because at the end of the day I'm the only one I can have regrets with.
AMANPOUR: In your memoir, you basically describe racism that you encountered as a young model and you you confronted you had a heated roul
with the late, John Casablancas who obviously was the founder of the Elite Modeling Agency. What was the roul and has this has the situation been
JONES: I knew there were certain programs that were in place that I was supposed to go in three day in a week you know and have certain
appointments and there were none. There were just none and after three days I knew something was wrong. So I just confronted him I said I know
I'm supposed to have appointments what is what is happening?
AMANPOUR: You mean shoots and things?
JONES: Even just what they call go sees just even letting the photographers see you and let him make up his or her minds and I never even
got those appointments. So I knew something was wrong so I just walked in talk talk talk bop bop(ph).
And I leaned over the desk and I said I have no appointments, what is going on? And I actually forced him to tell me and basically Beverly Johnson
then was a huge model in American and she was with Johnny Casablancas at the time.
AMANPOUR: Black model?
JONES: Yes yes. And I just he said to me, trying to sell a black model in Paris is like trying to sell an old car nobody wants to buy. I never
forget his exact words, quote un quote. He said not even Beverly Johnson can work in this town. I did go to Paris and I did go with an Agency that
absolutely formed an agency with Joey Hall, Myself, Estie Mayhoo(ph) and one other girl who I can't remember her name.
And we started an Agency just with the four of us. And they loved us and they sent us everywhere. Helmut Newton you know (ph) everybody got really
excited, (ph) and then it took off like that.
AMANPOUR: And how long did it take you to get over the abuse that you suffered in your own family? You say, ya you were crushed, your childhood
was crushed with a Bible.
JONES: It was just beatings and overzealous I'm still not sure if it was over religious zealously or was it sadistic? There is where as where do
you draw the line of being over zealous or are you just sadistic? I pretend I'm over zealous in reading the Bible that makes this one okay,
spoiled the rot spoil the child is what we were told you know everyday.
AMANPOUR: What give Grace Jones joy as you embark now into your seventh decade?
JONES: Not yet.
AMANPOUR: No no no.
JONES: Still a bit yet to go but a family as my you know my mom just passed and we were best girlfriends. She was really my inspiration.
AMANPOUR: And now you are not just a mother but a grandmother.
JONES: Yes. Yes. Who would have thunk it so she's here. I had to bring her had to bring her here but you know she's not far and it's wonderful and
in the film there is a part where she's being born.
In the film, and I'm there for her birth and I just happen to be in Paris for her birth doing something else, and she came and I ran to the hospital
and I said not leaving till she opens her eyes. And it's amazing magical moment in the movie where she actually opens her eyes all the audience was
going woo wow. Amazing, amazing.
AMANPOUR: Well that's a lovely life affirming note to end on.
AMANPOUR: Grace Jones, thank you so much.
JONES: Thank you so much Christiane. I love you.
AMANPOUR: The amazing and lovable Grace Jones. When we come back, we reveal Collins Dictionary very real word of the year. And a favorites of
AMANPOUR: And finally tonight. Imagine a world plagued by fake news, making it difficult to discern fact from fiction. Fake news is (Colin's)
word of the year, defining it quote, 'false, often sensational information disseminated under the guise of news reporting.'
The dictionary saw a three hundred fifty-five percent rise in its use since 2016. And these tweets may have something to do with that, President Trump
claimed he invented the term.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The media is really the word I think one of the greatest of all terms I've come up with is fake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: Of course there is another fake and that is news I don't want to hear about myself, but here a fact for you. According to Merriam-Webster
fake news dates back to the 19th century, looks like that claim was fake news.
That's it for our program tonight and remember you can always listen to our podcast, see us online at amanour.com, and follow me on Facebook and
Twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London.