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Trump's Asia Trip; Roy Moore Refutes Accusations; Texas Church Shooting; Sexual Harassment Scandals. Aired 4-5a ET

Aired November 12, 2017 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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NATALIE ALLEN, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): U.S. President Trump says he backs his intelligence agencies who have concluded Russia interfered in last year's election and that's despite President Putin's latest insistence to the contrary.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Also Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, uses his first public appearance since facing allegations of sexual misconduct to issue yet another denial.

Plus:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you carrying a gun on Sunday?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. If I'm on property, I will always have a gun on me.

ALLEN (voice-over): Trusting in God as well as their guns, pastors are rethinking their security after last week's horrific church shooting in Texas.

HOWELL (voice-over): Live from CNN headquarters in Atlanta, welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. I'm George Howell.

ALLEN (voice-over): And I'm Natalie Allen. And CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

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HOWELL: 4:00 am on the U.S. East Coast. The U.S. president, Donald Trump, is set to arrive in the Philippines, in Manila, at any time now. His arrival, though, in Manila will be the final leg of his five-nation trip across Asia. He's set to meet with the Philippine president, Rodrigo Duterte, and to attend a summit of Southeast Asian leaders.

ALLEN: Earlier in Hanoi, he held a joint news conference with Vietnamese president Tran Dai Quang on the issue of election meddling. The U.S. president was asked whether he believes Russia was responsible.

After meeting with Russian president Vladimir Putin in Vietnam, Saturday, he lashed out at former U.S. intelligence officials, who have concluded that Russia did indeed meddle in the election, calling them "political hacks." But this is what he had to say at today's news conference.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I said, I'm not surprised there is any conflict on this. What I said there is that I believe he believes that. And it's very important for somebody to believe.

I believe that he feels that he and Russia did not meddle in the election. As to whether I believe it or not, I'm with our agencies, especially as currently constituted with their leadership.

I believe in our intel agencies, our intelligence agencies. I've worked with them very strongly. There weren't 17 as was previously reported. There were actually four. But they were saying there were 17, there were actually four. But as currently led by fine people, I believe very much in our intelligence agencies.

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HOWELL: The president saying he is a believer. Let's bring in CNN's senior White House correspondent Jeff Zeleny in Hanoi, Vietnam, and CNN's Matt Rivers, following the story for us in Manila.

Let's start, Jeff, with you. The president first saying that he believed Putin's denial of election meddling and then seeking to clarify exactly what he meant by believing.

What more can you tell us?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SR. WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good day, George, certainly the president saying again and again that he believes what President Putin believes.

But I can tell you, the Russian cloud, the Russian investigation has been hanging over this White House, this administration and, indeed, this trip to Asia. Particularly, the whole idea of the two leaders coming face to face briefly in Vietnam on Saturday, when they were meeting for their economic summit.

But the president today when he was asked about that, he clearly is trying to move beyond this Russian meddling and trying to have more of a broader relationship with President Putin. But asked directly if he believes, once and for all, that Russia was involved, he did not have a specific answer. This is more of what he said.

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TRUMP: I believe that President Putin really feels, and he feels strongly, that he did not meddle in our election. What he believes is what he believes. What I believe is that we have to get to work. And I think everybody understood this, that heard the answer.

We have to get to work to solve Syria, to solve North Korea, to solve Ukraine, to solve terrorism.

And, you know, people don't realize, Russia's been very, very heavily sanctioned. They were sanctioned at a very high level. And that took place very recently.

It's now time to get back to healing a world that is shattered and broken. Those are very important things. And I feel that having Russia in a friendly posture, as opposed to always fighting with them, is an asset to the world and an asset to our country, not a liability.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So perhaps the whole irony in all of this, President Trump indeed does want to move beyond the Russian meddling and move into a broader relationship but by not addressing and dealing with the idea of Russian --

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ZELENY: -- meddling, he has complicated all of this throughout the year, has not once said directly, yes, Russia has meddled. We're going to stipulate to that and then move on beyond it.

So again, today, he was trying to have it both ways, in one respect, but still not trying to validate what is hanging over his administration, that Russia investigation back in Washington.

But the president did go on to talk about North Korea, other areas where he wants to meet with the Russian president and indeed other leaders in this region. This is what he said about Kim Jong-un and North Korea.

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TRUMP: We want progress, not provocation. I mean, we have been provoked. The world has been provoked. We don't want that. We want stability, not chaos. And we want peace, not war.

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ZELENY: So again, this is more of the president's continuation of a measured tone that he has really taken throughout this 13-day trip of Asia, not going as aggressively and directly and as personally toward Kim Jong-un but trying to call on other leaders in this region to come together for a more diplomatic and peaceful solution.

George, I can tell you, as this trip nears an end here, difficult to say if any real progress has been made in dealing with North Korea. So many other side issues here and indeed back home in Washington but, no question, North Korea remains front and center on this agenda, as the president arrives shortly in Manila.

HOWELL: And the president indicating, Jeff, that he's looking for more -- friendlier relations with Russia, with regard to North Korea and dealing with that issue. However, I do want to ask you about this issue regarding Russian meddling, the president saying that it's four agencies that support with confidence the concept of Russian meddling, not 17.

The question here, do we have any indication on that?

Because, quite frankly, it's the first time I'm hearing that.

ZELENY: Yes, we do. In fact, the president has talked about this several times. And, George, what he means by this is, there was a unanimous agreement among U.S. intelligence agencies that there was Russian meddling in the election. Only four of those agencies actually signed off on that report. They were the FBI, the CIA, the DNI, -- that's the Director of National Intelligence -- agencies like that.

There are 14 other -- or 13 other, excuse me -- agencies that aren't actually in the purview of this. They're intelligence officials from the Energy Department, a variety of other agencies.

So they didn't say they disagreed, they simply didn't sign onto this report because it was not in their lane, if you will. So one thing that the president has used that repeatedly to sort of raise questions about the unanimity of the U.S. intelligence community's view on this.

But the reality here, George, I still remember that moment this summer in a Senate hearing, where all of President Trump's intelligence chiefs, from the CIA to the DNI to others, stood, person by person.

They were asked by Senator Mark Warner, do you believe that Russia meddled in the election?

To a person, all six said, yes, sir, yes, sir. So there's no question that, throughout the government, that they believe that Russia meddled in the election. The only question here, George, is was there collusion between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin? That is something we do not know. That is why this investigation is still going forward.

HOWELL: Jeff Zeleny, good to have you here to bring clarity to that issue, live for us there in Hanoi. We'll stay in touch with you.

Let's switch over now to our colleague, Matt Rivers, following the story in Manila.

Matt, what can be expected here of the president's meeting with President Duterte?

The two are said to have a very warm relation.

MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, that's going to be the bilateral meeting that we're really all looking for in terms of that photo op. And it's going to be controversial in the sense that President Rodrigo Duterte is a very controversial figure worldwide. For our viewers who might not know, the Philippine president has

undergone a brutal crackdown on drugs here in the Philippines over the last year or so. And it's been a mission where he has not only targeted drug dealers but drug users as well.

And in that process, human rights groups say he has conducted extra- judicial killings and has just time and again violated people's rights and condemned by human rights groups across the globe because of that.

The question is will President Trump bring that up?

Will he challenge President Duterte about that, something that President Duterte is very sensitive about when other leaders of other countries bring that up. The White House does tell CNN that President Trump will bring that up in some respect.

But there are two sides of the coin here. President Duterte himself has said that President Trump has praised him for his ongoing fight against drugs. And the White House also says that there is a warm rapport, as it was described by one senior U.S. official, between both men. So really, you kind of have a dichotomy there.

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RIVERS: On the one hand, the White House says that Donald Trump will bring up that issue of alleged human rights abuses with President Duterte.

But on the other hand, they're friendly.

So what will be the outcome of that?

And what human rights groups are concerned about is that if Donald Trump does not bring that up forcefully and challenge President Duterte on this ongoing war against drugs, then does he, in essence, give Duterte a free pass to do what he's doing.?

It is going to be one of the most talked-about meetings between two countries at the ASEAN summit.

HOWELL: Matt Rivers on deck there in Manila, as the president is set to arrive at any time now. We'll, of course, let you know as we get indication that that's happening.

And Jeff Zeleny, live in Hanoi, Vietnam, with the latest headlines from the president's visit there.

Thank you both for your reporting today and we'll stay in touch with you both.

ALLEN: All right, so let's talk more about the president's meeting with Rodrigo Duterte in the Philippines now. Joining us from Seoul, South Korea, is Daniel Pinkston, professor of international relations at Troy University there in Seoul.

Daniel, thank you for being with us. Playing off of what Matt Rivers just said, the question is, how does President Trump get along or approach President Duterte, considering his condemnation by human rights groups all over the world?

DANIEL PINKSTON, TROY UNIVERSITY: Well, I think when the Trump administration came into office, they've abandoned some of the common principles that all administrations have supported in the past: human rights, rule of law, democracy abroad, free and open markets, peaceful settlements of disputes, support for the U.S.-led liberal world order.

The president has seemed to have turned his back on much of those principles and there seem to be dictators all around the world that he praises all the time.

ALLEN: How does it play at home if he is seen, you know, aligned with Duterte?

Certainly, there's got to be some trepidation there for him.

PINKSTON: Well, authoritarian leaders will try to exploit or manipulate support or perceived support by foreign leaders, particularly leaders of superpowers like the U.S.

So if the president is seen supporting the policies of President Duterte, including the extra-judicial killings and the human rights abuses and so forth, then it will strengthen Duterte's position in the Philippines.

ALLEN: Duterte had pulled away from the United States and made many negative comments about the United States and more aligned himself with China. But now we're said that he has warmed up to the United States.

What does he need from the United States?

What do we need from the Philippines?

PINKSTON: It's a very complicated relationship, of course. The Philippines was a colony of the United States and gained its independence in the 1940s. There's a lot of people-to-people contact; a lot of Filipinos live in the U.S. There's a lot of investment and trade and foreign exchanges with students and so forth.

So, at the human level, there are a lot of contacts and good relations but of course Duterte was opposed to Obama's policy, when he pressured Duterte for his policies in the drug war and his extra-judicial punishment of narcotics traffickers.

ALLEN: Let's look overall at the president's trip as it comes to a close. He's met with Vladimir Putin, he had a warm meeting with China, he's condemned North Korea but did he get any new initiatives or pledges on North Korea or with trade, what would you say are the most important aspects of this visit?

What is he bringing back?

PINKSTON: Well, on North Korea, there's no change. I believe that the situation is, there's mutual constraints against all countries. The North Korean nuclear program, the solution to that goes through Pyongyang, not through Washington or through Beijing, as many people claim.

So that is in deadlock. We probably have to play the long game until there's some revolutionary change in North Korea. So there's really no change there. But on trade policy, I would say that I think the president's abandonment of multi-lateralism is a big mistake.

And his desire to pursue bilateral trade agreements, that would make sense in the 1970s and 1980s, when most companies in East Asia had -- their biggest trading partner was the U.S. That's no longer the case. It's China for practically all countries in the region.

So also the trade in the region, the intraregional trade, embedded in supply chains, they don't really need the U.S. and they're moving forward in multi-lateral agreements. And as the U.S. --

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PINKSTON: -- tries to pursue bilateral agreements, the U.S. will be shut out of the rules in East Asia for trade and investment.

ALLEN: Doesn't sound real positive for President Trump and we'll see what happens there in the Philippines.

Daniel Pinkston, we thank you for your perspectives.

HOWELL: Still ahead here on CNN, the Republican candidate for an empty U.S. Senate seat is confronted by serious allegation of sexual misconduct decades ago. We'll discuss how it might affect Roy Moore's chances. Stay with us.

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HOWELL: We're following the story of the embattled U.S. Senate candidate, Roy Moore. He's speaking out, slamming allegations of sexual misconduct against him from decades ago. The controversial Republican judge made his first public appearance, happened Saturday, since the explosive accusations that were reported Thursday.

ALLEN: "The Washington Post" article was based on interviews with more than 30 people. Moore denies any wrongdoing and charges "The Post" report was politically motivated to derail his campaign.

Well, despite Moore's denials, numerous people are backing up the accounts about his past. One woman who worked with Moore many --

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ALLEN: -- years ago said it was common knowledge back then that he dated high school girls.

HOWELL: And that could be problematic for Moore if additional people come forward. We get the very latest from CNN's Alex Marquardt in Alabama.

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ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Roy Moore has come out swinging in his first set of public remarks since these allegations were made, striking a defiant tone, issuing a full- throated rejection of these allegations, saying that they are completely untrue, that there was never any sort of sexual misconduct.

He said that it is completely unbelievable that they're coming out now, just a few weeks before the special election and almost 40 years after the fact. Take a listen.

ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SENATE CANDIDATE: I've been investigated more than any other person in this country. To think that grown women would wait 40 years to come before, right before an election, to bring charges, is absolutely unbelievable.

MARQUARDT: Why now?

That is the refrain, the question that we keep hearing from the candidate, the campaign and his many supporters.

Is this part of a smear campaign by these women, just a few weeks before the election?

Is it being backed up by Democrats?

By establishment Republicans?

They don't know but they see a conspiracy theory here. They say they don't see any proof and until they do, they want Moore to stay in this race and they believe that he can win.

Now we have been digging more into his past and speaking with people who knew Judge Roy Moore around this era, specifically one woman, Theresa Jones, who worked alongside Roy Moore in the late '70s and early '80s, when he was a young assistant district attorney.

She was a deputy district attorney and she tells today "It was common knowledge that Roy dated high school girls. Everyone we knew though it was weird. We wondered why someone his age would hang out at high school football games and at the mall. But you really wouldn't say anything to someone like that."

MARQUARDT: Common knowledge, meaning that other people knew and if they come forward, this could pose a huge problem for the Moore campaign -- back to you.

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ALLEN: The most serious allegation against Moore was made by a woman named Leigh Corfman. Corfman says Moore molested her when she was just 14 years old. Mike Ortiz is one of her former boyfriends. Here's what he told a local station in Birmingham WBNA.

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MIKE ORTIZ, LEIGH CORFMAN'S EX-BOYFRIEND: I believe her. I mean, I believe her. I don't, you know, I think she always fought with whether to come out with it in public or not, you know, you know, internally what she needed to do with it.

You know, to let people know about it. But I believed her when she told me and I still believe her, you know. She doesn't -- she wouldn't lie about something like that.

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ALLEN: Well, Moore, still is promising revelations to expose the truth, he says, behind the allegations, which, of course, he says are completely false.

HOWELL: This is a story that certainly has implications for Congress but around the world people are watching it, the questions of sexual misconduct. Let's talk more about this, get some analysis now on the fallout from Inderjeet Parmar.

Inderjeet is a professor of international politics at City University of London and it's always a pleasure to have you here on the show, Inderjeet.

So we saw Judge Moore speaking out publicly, defending against these allegations against him, saying that they are completely false. And he questions the timing of it all.

Is this enough to reassure voters or do the lingering questions, the cloud over him, does that continue to do damage?

INDERJEET PARMAR, CITY UNIVERSITY LONDON: Well, it's difficult to know how much damage this will do to his campaign. He was also at this moment up to this point, only about 6 points ahead of his rival for the Alabama senate seat anyway, which is way down from what Donald Trump won the seat by back last November by 28 points.

So I suspect there will be a cloud but it remains to be seen what actual damage it will do. He has lost a number of independent voters and non-evangelicals already. And I suspect that this will have some effect but there's still four weeks to go.

And I suspect that Roy Moore is going to, as he has come out fighting, he's going to hype up the campaign and maybe go to the sort of key bellwether issues, which have propelled him and people like him, to office in the last 12 months. And that is going to be on the question of sharia law, Muslims and abortion and cultural issues like that.

HOWELL: We just heard from our senior U.S. national correspondent, Alex Marquardt, talking about a person coming forward. Natalie just read a story about another person coming forward. As we hear more from these people who are essentially character

witnesses, people who knew Moore back in the past and say that he did date young girls, will this sway opinions?

PARMAR: It may do. I think there have been a lot of sexual allegations across the political parties and the kind of people they have supported or have supported them. So Donald Trump, for example, there's a number of allegation against him.

[04:25:00]

PARMAR: But I think what is different here, it seems to me anyway, this is to do with underage girls. And I think for evangelical communities and others, I think, as well as the law, of course, this could be a much more damaging issue.

But as you can see already, there is a partisan sort of perspective on all this, that anybody who accuses a Republican is always seen to be somebody working for the Democrats and vice versa.

So the politically charged atmosphere which exists in the U.S. is being displayed fully in this particular controversy. And obviously, within the Republican Party, there appears to be a much, much growing, damaging split. This is a Bannon candidate after all. The McConnells and so on had rejected Moore's primary campaign in favor of Luther Strange, as had Donald Trump actually.

So I suspect this is going to be something which, whatever the election result may be, this is just going to further divide and split the United States, including the Republican Party itself.

HOWELL: OK, so here's the thing, so Moore continues to say that these allegations are false. He says there's no proof. He says this happened decades ago. The allegations, you know, the situation, happened decades ago.

But here's the broader question here and, Inderjeet, you're getting to this but is this more a question of party over principle?

PARMAR: To tell you the truth, it seems to me that there is a bigger question than party and principle and that is to do with the fact of strong men, powerful men in very powerful positions, abusing their positions, using those positions to be able to carrying out a large number of acts which they know to be illegal or immoral at the time and which are now basically coming out, partly in the wake of the Weinstein affair.

And I think this is the bigger question, that there is a linkage between male power and sexual behavior. And it's not new. It's been going on for a long time. You will see in the Supreme Court, there's a Supreme Court justice there who was also accused of a number of offenses as well.

So I would say it goes right to the heart of power and the way we see it. And the role of sex and sexual behavior within it. And so this is a big question, is well over parties, because those parties, one way or another, have been implicated in this kind of behavior and allegations in the past. President Clinton, as you will recall, was also mired in this.

But many others as well before that.

HOWELL: And we'll see, when the time comes to decide, when voters go to decide on whether Roy Moore moves forward in that candidacy, to decide whether people are willing to give him a pass on these allegations or whether the allegations alone are enough to turn voters off. Inderjeet Parmar, live for us in London, thank you for your time and insight today.

PARMAR: Thank you very much.

ALLEN: What will be the dynamic between a U.S. President and the controversial president of the Philippines?

We'll get into that coming up here as President Trump arrives in Manila.

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HOWELL: Back with viewers here in the United States and all around the world, this is CNN NEWSROOM. I'm George Howell.

ALLEN: And I am Natalie Allen. Here are our top stories this hour.

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ALLEN: Back to our top story now, U.S. President Donald Trump arriving in Manila, this the last leg of his Asian trip. It has been a long trip.

HOWELL: It has been a long trip. Now a big question, what to expect with his meetings with the Philippine president, Rodrigo Duterte. Let's now bring in Maria Ressa. She is CNN's former Manila bureau chief, now executive editor at the Rappler news website.

It's great to have you with us --

ALLEN: Hi, Maria.

HOWELL: -- today, Maria. So a lot of questions about this. Mr. Duterte was known for his shocking style, to say the least, from his claims that he stabbed someone to death, his jokes about raping women and rampant cursing about world leaders.

Here are two examples from earlier in his tenure, one comparing himself to President Trump and the other lashing out against the E.U. for criticizing his war on drugs. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODRIGO DUTERTE, PRESIDENT, THE PHILIPPINES: I'd like to congratulate President Trump.

DUTERTE (through translator): We both curse, even with trivial matters we curse. We are very similar in that way.

DUTERTE: You are interfering in our affairs. (Speaking foreign language). Then you start to orchestrate what things should be done and which should not happen in my country, you (INAUDIBLE). We are past the (INAUDIBLE) with that. We ASEAN members can export to each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: A couple of bleeps there from the podium, Maria. But Mr. Duterte has changed his tune, we understand, says that God told him to stop cursing.

So when it comes to questions about human rights, how important is it now for this U.S. president to go there and to raise these questions with this leader and what impact could that happen?

MARIA RESSA, RAPPLER: It's extremely important in terms of the U.S.' own messaging.

What does the United States stand for now in --

[04:35:00]

RESSA: -- Southeast Asia and the Asia Pacific?

I think this visit comes at a crucial times because you have shifting power balances here. And part of that is because President Trump himself has moved away from here, leaving essentially what was a power vacuum.

President Duterte, shortly after he took office, went to Beijing and said that the Philippines would pivot away from the United States towards China and Russia. And that, then, becomes the next chapter.

Are we moving there?

This is the first time you're going to see the two leaders in the same place along with China and Russia. How this plays out is something that Filipinos and all around the world will be looking at.

ALLEN: And Duterte doesn't like it, of course, when people bring up his human rights abuses.

Do you expect President Trump will go there?

RESSA: Duterte has already said, our president has already said that he does not expect President Trump to go there. The U.S. national security adviser, Lieutenant General McMaster, actually said that he expected that this would be one of those things, where the relationship between the two men could deal with this in a way that would then turn the Philippines' own pivot to China into a pirouette right back to the United States.

So you have both countries coming at this at a critical time. We're looking for the signals from it.

Will the United States stand by its past focus on human rights?

Or will it, like the Philippines, shift to a more personality-centric leadership style?

The two men have that in common.

And will their natural empathy towards each other shift the policy in this region?

ALLEN: It will be a dynamic we will be watching, of course. President Trump did not bring up human rights when he was in China, either. Certainly, we'll be watching this closely. Maria Ressa, we thank you for joining us. Thanks.

HOWELL: And a church where a man carried out a deadly mass shooting in Texas will reopen as a memorial on Sunday. The First Baptist Church of Sutherland Springs is thanking volunteers and donors for helping to restore the sanctuary; 25 people and an unborn child were killed there a week ago.

ALLEN: It was the deadliest mass shooting ever in Texas. The suspect, Devin Kelley, passed background checks when buying guns because the United States Air Force failed to report his court-martial conviction.

Five years ago he pleaded guilty to assaulting his infant stepson and ex-wife. She's now speaking out for the first time, describing how Kelley constantly threatened her. She says he once pointed a gun at her after she got a speeding ticket.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TESSA BRENNAMAN, EX-WIFE OF DEVIN KELLEY: And he had a gun if his holster right here.

And he took that gun out and he put it to my temple and he told me, "Do you want to die?

Do you want to die?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: It is a sad reality. But many in the U.S. go to places of worship fearing they could be the target of another mass shooting.

HOWELL: People think about it all the time, in fact. It is very unfortunate. Our Kaylee Hartung reports more religious leaders and worshippers want to take it upon themselves now to protect their churches.

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WILL CHADWICK, GATEKEEPERS SECURITY SERVICES: So you smack it in there one time now.

KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Will Chadwick is training me, like he has hundreds of others.

You need to embrace the advantage of being better than the bad guy.

HARTUNG: So, are you carrying a gun on Sunday?

BRIAN ULCH, PASTOR, TRINITY LIGHTHOUSE CHURCH: Absolutely. If I'm on property, I will always have a gun.

HARTUNG: Pastor Brian Ulch is a gatekeeper, a volunteer trained, licensed and insured to protect his church by the Chadwick's family Christian security institute.

ULCH: We have a responsibility to every single member that walks into a safe hive and that walks in to a place of worship and warning a place of phase to provide the protection.

HARTUNG: Will and his dad Chuck created the gatekeeper program more than a decade ago just outside of Dallas.

CHADWICK: It is so hard in those early years to get somebody to spend $20 on subscriptions of our Web site. Now, we have thousands and thousands of churches that are part of our national organization.

HARTUNG: And in the last week, following the deadliest shooting in the U.S. house of worship, their phones have been ringing off the hook. From New York to Hawaii, churches called wanting to learn how to protect themselves.

CHADWICK: We take people that have absolutely no experience and we pride ourselves on really being able to hone these skills.

HARTUNG: In the six day course, they say volunteers are taught defensive tactics more around professional security and law enforcement standards. But tailor to challenges the church ministry could --

[04:40:00]

HARTUNG (voice-over): -- face like how to interact with an unruly parishioners

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And take that in, OK.

HARTUNG: And how to use a gun against an act of shooter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being able to place your mind in there and see how you are going to react is important.

HARTUNG: There is a psychological evaluation and a background check, too.

Pastor Ulch, like many other gatekeepers, did not have any prior security training. Seven years ago his church in Texas discussed hiring a private security company but they needed more.

ULCH: When you look at the outside private security sector, they have dynamic resources but they don't know your congregation. They don't know the heartbeat of your ministry. But when you look at bringing your volunteers through, they not only know your campus, know your community, know your members, they can identify things that don't look right.

HARTUNG: How do you believe the events at First Baptist Church could have been different if they had a gatekeeper?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, one I really absorb that I was going. I sure wish they had a gatekeeper.

HARTUNG (voice-over): Kaylee Hartung, CNN, Dallas, Texas.

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ALLEN: Welcome back.

Another celebrity is embroiled in a growing wave of sexual misconduct allegations. "Star Trek" star and LGBT activist George Takei has been accused of sexual assault by a former male model. Scott Bronson alleges Takei groped him while at the actor's Los Angeles condo back in 1981.

HOWELL: Bronson says that he was 23 years old at the time and Takei was in his 40s. Takei has denied these allegations.

ALLEN: And as more sexual misconduct allegations are emerging, many are discussing how the accused are responding. Comedian and actor Louis C.K. is admitting the allegations against him are true.

"The New York Times" cited five women, some of whom say he exposed himself in front of them. In a statement, he expressed remorse without using the words "I'm sorry" or "I apologize."

HOWELL: And he's been criticized for that. This comes after actor and producer Kevin Spacey --

[04:45:00]

HOWELL: -- was also criticized for his apology. Actor Anthony Rapp, here on the right, accused Spacey of making sexual advances when Rapp was 14 years old and Spacey was 26. Spacey drew condemnation from the LGBTQ community for using that apology to acknowledge that he is gay. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: I'm joined by Edwin Battistella . He's a professor of linguistics and writing at Southern Oregon University.

Professor Battistella is also the author of "Sorry about That: The Language of Public Apology."

Professor, thanks for being with us.

EDWIN BATTISTELLA, SOUTHERN OREGON UNIVERSITY: Thanks, Natalie, it's good to be here.

ALLEN: Let's talk about, you know, there are apologies and there are apologies, apparently. And in your book, you say, "Saying the word sorry or apologize doesn't always cut it."

How so?

BATTISTELLA: Well, there are lots of different ambiguities there. If you just say I regret something, you're indicating a sort of state of mind. You really have to indicate remorse by using words like apology or sorry and particularly with a public apology. In person, you can look someone in the eye and tell if they're sincere. But in a public apologies, where it's at a distance, it's much easier to try and be slippery.

ALLEN: Right. Give us an example of maybe a historic apology, say, from the political world, which I'm sure there are many of those.

BATTISTELLA: Yes, I found that there were lots more bad apologies than good apologies. And there was a great old one from Harry Truman, Give 'em Hell Harry, made a -- some intemperate comments about the Marine Corps and he had to apologize to them.

And he basically said, I stand by my sentiments but I apologize for the way I expressed it.

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ALLEN: So that's not enough?

BATTISTELLA: Not enough.

ALLEN: Right. And so and the reason is, they just want to make it go away?

BATTISTELLA: Yes. Especially when you hear something really awful, it's hard to own up to that. It's hard to say what you did wrong. So people try and use shortcuts. They try and make excuses. They try and shift the blame. And they use language that's just plain insincere, things like "I apologize if anyone is offended."

It's a kind of verbal jujitsu, where you flip the apology back on the person who was harmed. ALLEN: So we've seen apologies from powerful people in the entertainment world, including Kevin Spacey -- and I want to mention him, because what you just said kind of holds true for him. "I don't remember the encounter but if I did behave this way, I owe this person the sincerest apology."

What do you think of that?

BATTISTELLA: Exactly. He's not apologizing. He's saying, you know, I'm apologizing, I would apologize for whatever happened but I don't know that anything did and if it did I apologize. So there's really no there there.

ALLEN: Then we also had comedian Louis C.K., he issued an apology but he didn't say the word apology or sorry. And many people, really, after listening to it on Twitter, went like, that really wasn't an apology. He talked about the power he had over women, that admired him and he talked about that power again and being admired. But he never really said I'm sorry for it.

BATTISTELLA: Right, it was all about him. And when you apologize, you have to do what I call the three Rs. You have to show some remorse, that you're really sorry by being sincere. You have to take responsibility. And you have to make some repairs.

And all Louis C.K. did was just say, this is true. So he skips right it to the end of, it's true. Forgive me. Let's move on.

ALLEN: So why, in the era of social media, Professor, and transparency, while facing serious allegations, would someone issue such a vacuous apology or non-apology?

BATTISTELLA: It's often that way but people, it takes people a long time to sort of get to the point where they can really accept that they did something wrong and accept the shame of what they have done. So often I call this the apology two-step.

Sometimes it's a three-step, where people issue a bad apology. They'll think about it some more and find out that was a poor apology. No one was satisfied with it. They're not satisfied with it and they may come back later and make a stronger, more remorseful apology. And I hope that happens.

ALLEN: Yes, these are lessons we all can use in our relationships as we go through life aren't they. Edwin Battistella, professor of linguistics and the author of "Sorry about That," thank you for joining us.

BATTISTELLA: Thank you, Natalie.

ALLEN: Well, that haze of toxic smog continues to blanket India's capital. We'll have the latest on the weather conditions there coming up here as we push on --

[04:50:00]

ALLEN: -- on CNN NEWSROOM.

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HOWELL: Dangerous smog situation in New Delhi is getting worse.

ALLEN: Yes, and it's causing health problems.

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[04:55:00]

HOWELL: And we now understand also, the big story we're following, President Trump has arrived now, is in Manila in the Philippines. We will bring reporting as we speak to our correspondents in the next hour. I'm George Howell.

ALLEN: I'm Natalie Allen. We'll be right back.