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Sessions Recalled Papadopoulos Meeting After Media Reports; Sessions: I Have No Reason to Doubt Roy Moore Accusers; New Poll: Trump's Approval Drops to 35 Percent; U.S. Lawmakers Want Assurance Trump Won't Rashly Use Nukes. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired November 14, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: But he's in a precarious position in which the president essentially has taken getting rid of Jeff Sessions off the table for now. If he does anything in the testimony that under cuts or undermines his credibility at the top legal official, that could change that. So he may get pressure from both Democrats and Republicans in the Senate.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: David Drucker is with us, our CNN political analyst, senior political correspondent for "The Washington Examiner."

How did you read the exchanges between the attorney general and the Democratic and Republican members of the committee?

DAVID DRUCKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It was interesting, Wolf. Republicans were trying to give the attorney general cover, give the administration cover by focusing on what they hoped to be a Clinton investigation. And Democrats are still digging in and trying to find discrepancies with what Sessions has said publicly and what actually happened during the campaign.

I think this hearing was colored by two very interesting comments. One, before the hearing, Trump saying it bothers him as president he is not supposed to get involved in the Justice Department and the FBI. You can see Congressman Gowdy acknowledging that there's too much interference with the Justice Department from the Oval Office. He wishes Democrats had the same reverence for this principle when Obama was in office.

But then you also saw Democrats poking at Sessions, trying to keep this idea that they are not being truthful with their comments and what they are talking about when they discussed who they met with, who they met with from Russia, who they didn't meet with. I think part of the problem gets back to the president, which we saw on his Asia trip, and not being able to forcefully criticize Vladimir Putin and that keeps things alive in a political sense.

Also, what we saw is the attorney general is, in a sense, also performing for the president. He wants, I think, to talk about his respect for the rule of law and that the Justice Department should be independent. He knows that the administration in the White House is looking for a more forceful defense of the president from him. I think that kind of hangs over everything he said. BLITZER: I want to move to other issues. But let me play this clip

about his memory and recollection, and how he explained why he got it wrong during earlier testimony. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SESSIONS, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I had no recollection of this meeting until I saw these news reports. I do now recall that the March 2016 meeting at the Trump Hotel that Mr. Papadopoulos attended. But I have no clear recollection of the details of what he said at that meeting. After reading his account, and to the best of my recollection, I believe that I wanted to make clear to him that he was not authorized to represent the campaign with the Russian government or any other foreign government for that matter. But I did not recall this event that occurred 18 months before my testimony of a few weeks ago. I would gladly had reported it had I remembered it because I pushed back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: You would think he would remember a meeting like that where he pushed back, and he told George Papadopoulos, don't go to Moscow or have contacts, whatever he said. It sounds like once he heard about it in that charging indictment where Papadopoulos pleaded guilty, he had specific details.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: That's especially true when you remember that the whole focus of the hearing where Al Franken questioned him was Russia. It's not like Russia was some subject that was thrown at him out of the blue where anyone can acknowledge you may not remember everything in the past. He prepared for questions about Russia. He knew he was going to be asked about Russia. He had a problem before testifying about Russia, not disclosing his meetings with the Russian ambassador. He was ready for questions about Russia, yet he still forgot the exchange with Papadopoulos, which today he now vividly remembers shutting down any contacts between Papadopoulos and the Russians.

BLITZER: He's very, very sensitive.

We will take a break in a moment, but, Carrie, I want you to react. He is sensitive to the notion that he is not an honorable person. I will play this clip where he makes his case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SESSIONS: I have been asked to remember details from a year ago, such as who I saw on what day and what meeting and who said what to when. In all of my testimony, I can only do my best to answer your questions as I understand them and to the best of my memory. But I will not accept and reject accusations that I have ever lied. That is a lie. Let me be clear, I have at all times conducted myself honorably.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[13:35:13] BLITZER: It's a very sensitive issue. Because lying before Congress is a crime.

CARRIE CORDERO, FORMER COUNSEL TO THE ASSISTANT A.G. FOR THE COUNCIL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: It is. He was under testimony, so he had to explain it.

But there's a bigger piece going on here. His testimony today comes the day after there has been another big revelation about a Trump campaign official being in contact with WikiLeaks. Other reports have come out since his last testimony about Trump campaign officials and going to meetings and being in communication with Russian government individuals. Attorney General Sessions, he portrays it as defending his honor, but he is saying I will not be taken down by this entire investigation. If there were other things going on, on the campaign, I didn't know about it.

BLITZER: He said he didn't know about the exchanges that Donald Trump Jr had with WikiLeaks, even though other campaign surrogates, officials were in on an e-mail link talking about that.

There's a lot more to assess. Let's take a quick break.

Also, the former Senator from Alabama, now the attorney general of the United States, said he has no reason to doubt the testimony of five women, five women who have come forward and made accusations of sexual abuse by the Republican Senatorial candidate in Alabama, Roy Moore. We will have that and a lot more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:40:56] BLITZER: Growing calls from top Republicans, including the Senate majority leader, Mitch McConnell, and now House Speaker Paul Ryan, urging the GOP nominee for the U.S. Senate, Roy Moore, to withdraw from the Alabama Senate race amid allegations of sexual abuse.

Paul Ryan said this, and I'm quoting him now, "He should step aside, number one. These allegations are credible. Number two, if he cares about the values that he claims to care about, then he should step aside."

Take a listen to this. This is the Attorney General Jeff Sessions testifying today before the House Judiciary. Was asked about the Senate race in Alabama. And remember, he is the former U.S. Senator from Alabama. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SESSIONS: I am -- I have no reason to doubt these young women.

SEN. SHEILA JACKSON LEE, (D), TEXAS: If you believe these young women, do you believe he should be seated in the Senate if he wins and would you introduce investigations by the DOJ regarding his actions?

SESSIONS: We will evaluate every case as to whether or not it should be investigated. This kind of case would normally be a state case. I would say, Senator Jackson Lee, that the ethics people at the Department of Justice -- and I have talked to them about that when the campaign started, it's the seat I used to hold -- and they advised me that the attorney general should not be involved in this campaign. I have friends in the campaign.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON LEE: Thank you, Mr. Attorney General.

SESSIONS: I steadfastly adhere to that view --

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON LEE: I have a short period of time.

(CROSSTALK)

SESSIONS: I think I should continue to do so.

JACKSON LEE: I want to make sure if he comes to the United States Senate that there would be a possibility of referring his case for at least a federal view by the Department of Justice.

SESSIONS: We will do our duty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Margaret Talev, what did you think of that exchange? It looks like the pressure is clearly mounting on Roy Moore to step aside. Although, he gives no indication and supporters give no indication he is willing to do so.

TALEV: The pressure is indisputably mounting for all parts of the Republican Party. The most important person in the executive branch is probably not going to be Jeff Sessions. It's going to be President Trump, who is on the way back from Asia. He has been in Asia and probably more focused on the international issues. The political views in the United States, they are all in communication by e-mail. And the building Roy Moore controversy has been a huge source of concern and discussion in the White House. When the president gets back, he will have meetings about it and get briefed and be given a range of options on whether or not he decides to weigh in publicly or privately.

TOOBIN: The options are not great because, under Alabama law, Roy Moore has to stay on the ballot. It's too late to replace him. The only option for this election is a write-in candidacy. That's difficult, especially with someone like Luther Strange, the incumbent Senator, who already lost to Roy Moore. The Republican Party may have to come to terms with the fact that the only two winners would be Roy Moore or Mr. Jones, who is the Democratic nominee. Neither one is a good option.

DRUCKER: I think we have to understand that there are two sets of Republican establishments here. While the establishment in Washington wants Roy Moore to go, I was on the phone before we were on the air with Republicans in Alabama, and the establishment there's not pressuring him to go. They may want to privately, but it's not something they want to get involved in.

Remember. As we're waiting for President Trump to get back here and weight in, we are talking about a politician who regularly talks about false accusations and rigged elections. It would be an interesting spot for him to be in to rig the outcome of an election or influence it as the party leader because he doesn't like who might win, especially when the candidate, Roy Moore, is complaining that he is the victim of false accusations. This is very difficult.

TOOBIN: It's about sexual harassment, which the president has also been accused of. It's complicated by that as well.

DRUCKER: Correct.

[13:45:07] CORDERO: Although Jeff Sessions, because, although, he has not jumped in this, the idea has very much been floated and discussed about whether or not Jeff Sessions himself might be somehow returned to his original --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Very quickly, the Justice Department -- let's say, he is sworn in as the next U.S. Senator from the state of Alabama. You heard Sheila Jackson Lee, the congresswoman, saying will you investigate him and open a federal investigation, under what charges? I take it that this would be a state or a local issue more than a federal issue.

TALEV: This type of crime, what Roy Moore is accused of, are certainly state or local type crimes issues. The attorney general was right to say we will take a look at it, but there's no readily available federal crime that would be an issue here.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: One last thing. Roy Moore was ejected from the state supreme court once. He ran again and won. Who is to say they don't somehow manipulate everything to get rid of him. They have to fill the seat that Jeff Sessions won in 2014. Who is to say he doesn't run again and win? You can't.

BLITZER: Everybody stand by.

There's a new poll that Quinnipiac University just put out. We will put it up on the screen. Donald Trump's approval number is at 35 percent, 35 percent of the American people approve of the job he is doing in the poll, down from 38 percent in mid-October. Right now, 58 percent of the American people, according to Quinnipiac, disapprove the job that the president is doing.

Margaret, this poll is consistent with a bunch of other recent polls.

TALEV: It's consistently not good. The question for the president is, how much leverage does he have with Congress to score as he tries to push his policy preference forward, and will he be blamed if there are problems for the Republicans in November? The question for Republicans is a continuation on the theme, which is particularly about problems getting tax legislation through, and how much does the president's inability to expand his support matter in an election year in a general election. We know in terms of a primary election, he is quite popular and has a hammer to wield over establishment Republican who push back and don't do what he wants to do. When it comes to the control of the two chambers of Congress, which is important for the president, as well as those individual members, the inability to break back over 40 is a matter of concern.

BLITZER: On the big issue, he is coming back to Washington and he'll be here working to try to influence the Senate and the House to passes the tax cuts, the tax bill right now. But when members of the Senate and the House, especially some those moderate Republicans see his approval numbers only 35 percent, let's say, that weakens the president and his ability to twist arms.

DRUCKER: It does. Especially after last week's elections. And everyone is focused on Virginia and New Jersey. The death of Republican losses in suburban strongholds, from Virginia all the way up to Long Island outside of New York City, is what has Republicans concerned, and they are worried about how they are doing with suburban women. This is a huge concern into 2018. On the one hand, there's, in a way, more pressure for them to pass tax reform internally. They need something to show for full control of government. On the other hand, when the president has these numbers, it means he is strong with the base and not voters writ large. That gives him less leverage and movement over them in general.

TOOBIN: The tax bill itself is not particularly popular. Yes, there's a lot of institutional incentives to pass the bill, but it's not like this bill is going to pass, and suddenly his popularity is --

(CROSSTALK)

BLITZER: Republicans believe if they don't get some tax cuts going, they are doomed in the mid-term elections.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Right, but this is hardly a panacea to their problems.

(CROSSTALK)

[13:49:05] BLITZER: Everybody stand by. There's a lot more is happening right now.

The president, by the way, speaking aboard Air Force One a little while ago, commenting on China's decision to go ahead and release the three UCLA basketball players after the president personally asked the Chinese president, President Xi, to intervene.

Also, lawmakers and at least one NATO ally now demanding assurances that President Trump won't rashly launch nuclear weapons. You will hear how the White House has now responded.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLITZER: As North Korea threatens nuclear attacks on the United States, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman, Bob Corker, held an extraordinary hearing today, the first in more than 40 years to examine the president's powers to order nuclear attack. Senator Corker says a number of members, both on and off the committee, have raised serious questions about that issue.

Listen to what Connecticut Senator Chris Murphy had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D), CONNECTICUT: We are concerned that the president of the United States is so unstable, is so volatile, has a decision-making process that quixotic that he might order a nuclear weapon strike that is wildly out of step with U.S. national security interests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Very strong words.

With us now to discuss, Tony Blinken, our CNN global affairs analyst, former state deputy national security adviser during the Obama administration as well.

What's your reaction to Senator Murphy's very strong remarks?

[13:54:58] TONY BLINKEN, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIR ANALYST: Wolf, this is extraordinary. Because, as you said at the top, this is the first time in more than 40 years Congress has held a hearing on the question of the president's authority and command to use nuclear weapons. And there's a reason this hearing is happening now. It's because of concerns that the president acts erratically, particularly with his tweets, and that is sending all sorts of messages around the world that are potentially the source of miscalculation. If someone like a North Korea thinks that on the basis of something the president tweets that he may be prepared to use nuclear weapons -- and by the way, they don't have the ability to detect incoming nuclear weapons -- that could produce an unintended conflict. So that's the basis for this hearing. Now we have institutions and process that is should be able to withstand any individual.

BLITZER: Including the president.

BLINKEN: Including the president. But I think Senator Corker, Chairman Corker is right to hold this hearing to try to get a grip on this and to see if anything needs to be done.

Now, there's also a larger question that goes beyond any particular president, including President Trump, which, is should the president have the authority to basically launch, on his own decision, without consultation of Congress, a first strike without there's no imminent danger or threat to the United States. That's a larger question that goes beyond the question of President Trump.

BLITZER: Another sensitive issue has come up, and the president responding to it, the relationship he now seems to have with the president, President Duterte, of Philippines. In defending his policy, the president's policy, took a serious jab at the previous administration you're very familiar with. Listen to the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: In the Philippines, we just could not have been greeted nicer. And as you know, we were having a lot of problems with the Philippines. The relationship over the past administration was horrible. To use a nice word, I would say horrible is putting it mildly. You know what happened. Many of you were there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to you react to that. The relationship with the Philippines during the eight years of the Obama administration, he says, were horrible.

BLINKEN: Actually, the relationship was excellent and getting very, very strong. Then President Duterte came in, launched this war on drugs that has now featured, by Amnesty International's county, tens of thousands of extrajudicial killings. Even the government of the Philippines itself acknowledges about 3,000. And that really soured the relationship. Because President Obama criticized Duterte for the way he's conducting this war on drugs. President Trump, unfortunately, seems more at home with autocrats than with Democrats. And the idea that he's cozier with President Duterte than he is with his own predecessor and, indeed, is criticizing his predecessor on foreign soil, is really unfortunate.

The other thing, Wolf, is this sends a terrible message of impunity to Duterte to continue prosecuting this war on drugs without any regard for basic standards of rule of law. And it sends a message around the world that we are OK with this kind of conduct.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Because the White House says that the issue of human rights did briefly come up in the president's meeting with President Duterte, the Philippine government says it never came up.

BLINKEN: I suspect the president said to Duterte, you're right, that's was probably the extent of the discussion of human rights.

So, look, this is -- the president has said previously that he applauded the way that President Duterte was conducting his war on drugs. He has embraced him. And this is part of a larger pattern. Unfortunately, the president, again, seems to be very comfortable with autocrats around the world and much less comfortable with Democrats.

BLITZER: He did seem to get a major achievement in convincing the Chinese leader, President Xi, to go ahead release the three UCLA basketball players, who were accused by the Chinese of shoplifting. Potentially, they could have faced many years in a Chinese prison, a labor camp. But they are on their way home right now.

BLINKEN: Yes.

BLITZER: And the president is taking some credit for that.

BLINKEN: Yes, that's good news. President was right to do it. Glad that he did it. Good that he got the result. It would have been good as well if he had a few words for the many Chinese, unfortunately, who are feeling the heavy hand of repression in China. Including, for example, the widow of the man who won the Nobel Peace Prize and was put in jail by China. So you have to get that piece of it right, too.

The larger question here, Wolf, is, in China, we saw two presidents heading in different directions. Xi Jinping, whose power is at a maximum, his own law is enshrined now in the Chinese Communist Party's constitution, and President Trump, as you said earlier, opinion polls showing him with lowest ratings ever. And both of them are heading in different directions in terms of where they are taking their countries. China is opening to the world. President Trump is closing in. That's going to put China in a much stronger position and us in a weaker position.

BLITZER: He says he's improved this relationship with China and we'll see some dramatic results. And he says there will be a speech he'll be delivering in the next --

(CROSSTALK)

BLINKEN: I look forward to that.

BLITZER: Making some major announcements as well. We'll see what he does.

All right, Tony, thanks very much for coming in.

BLINKEN: Thanks, Wolf.

BLITZER: That's it for me. Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back 5:00 p.m. eastern in the "THE SITUATION ROOM."

In the meantime, the news continues right now, right here on CNN.

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