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McConnell Suggests Sessions As Write-In Alternative; Roy Moore Defiant, Trump Silent As Pressure Mounts; Senate Bill To Include Repeal Of Obamacare Mandate; Trump Has Yet To Weigh In On Roy Moore Scandal. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired November 15, 2017 - 11:00   ET



BOLDUAN: -- no secret Republicans in Washington want Roy Moore out of the Alabama Senate race and nowhere near Washington. Senator Mitch McConnell even floating his own idea for who he would like to see as a write-in candidate now.


SENATOR MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: The Alabamian who would, you know, fit that standard would be the attorney general, who is totally well known and extremely popular in Alabama. That, obviously, would be a big move for him and for the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, is Jeff Sessions a possibility?

MCCONNELL: We don't know, but he fits the mold of somebody who might be able to pull off a write-in.


BOLDUAN: So no secret there. But what is a secret, though, still today, where the president stands on all of this. He's back from his overseas trip. He was up early, very clearly, just check his Twitter feed.

And while taking time to tout the success of his marathon tour, asked for praise for helping UCLA basketball players arrested in China, and even taking an early morning swipe at the media.

Yes, with of course, CNN still crickets on what the top Republican in the country thinks of this massive scandal to hit the Republican Party. As for the embattled Republican Senate candidate himself, he is not staying so silent. And for now, says he's here to stay.


ROY MOORE, ALABAMA REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE: Why do you think they're giving me this trouble? Why do you think I'm being harassed by the media, and by people pushing forward allegations in the last 28 days of this election? But I won't talk about the issues. I want to talk about where this country is going and if we don't come back to God, we're not going anywhere. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Moore defiant as ever, despite more accusations from his past. Let's start on the ground in Alabama. CNN's Nick Valencia is there. So, Nick, what are you hearing there today?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it seems like every day, Kate, there's another conservative leader to come out and jump ship on Roy Moore, whether they're drawing into question his character or asking him to explain the inconsistencies in his defense of these sexual assault allegations or just flat-out asking him to withdraw.

We know this much. That the Republican National Committee has jumped out of a joint agreement that they have with the candidate, a fundraising agreement so just another issue here for Roy Moore.

The news here just gets worse and worse for the candidate, but he still has a lot of support. Since this story broke last week by "The Washington Post," there have been a lot of people here locally in this community to come out with stories about Roy Moore.

And one of them was a man named Greg Legat, who is a former mall employee back in the 1980s here, locally, who said he was told my mall security to watch out for Roy Moore. Here's what that man told our Gary Tuchman.


GREG LEGAT, FORMER GADSDEN MALL EMPLOYEE: We talked about other people and then somebody said, and don't forget about Roy Moore. And I asked, what about Roy Moore? And they said, well, he's banned from the mall, and I said, why is he banned? And the police officer wouldn't tell me. He said, if you see him, let me know. I'll take care of him. I was told that he was bothering girls in the mall.


LEGAT: I don't know exactly, that he was approaching them and talking to them.

TUCHMAN: Girls, when you're saying girls --

TUCHMAN: Teenage girls.


VALENCIA: Now, Moore has vehemently denied these allegations, going so far to say that he's the one that's the victim of a so-called spiritual war against him. He went on last night to blame the media more harassing him over these sexual assault allegations.

And it is worth pointing out, Kate, that this race is getting ever so tight between the Democratic opponent, Doug Jones, and that says a lot, because this state doesn't have a past history, really, of electing a lot of Democrats. It's been more than 20 years since they elected a Democrat to Senate -- Kate. BOLDUAN: And that election inching ever -- or speeding ever so closer and closer now in December. Thank you so much, Nick. I appreciate it.

Let's go quickly over to the other huge story brewing in Washington right now, a capitol curveball. We'll call it that. Live picks of the capitol right now. Senate Republicans hoping to kill two birds with one stone or one bill, anyway.

Their revised tax bill taking on not only taxes but also health care. Here's the curveball. They want to now repeal the individual mandate in Obamacare to help pay for the tax cuts. What does that mean for you? What does that mean for the politics in this? Remember how well health care went over this summer?

CNN's Suzanne Malveaux remembers. She's on Capitol Hill right now with more details. Suzanne, what's behind this latest move right now?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Kate, what we're seeing is more fireworks. Just moments ago, when this hearing started in the Senate Finance Committee between the chair, Orrin Hatch, and the ranking member, Ron Wyden and Democrats now saying, now this is no longer a tax plan bill, but this is more a health care bill.

So, you can imagine the emotions are very high, as they object to a number of things here. This is a big difference and it's a big change. And the main reason here is that Senate Republicans are taking this gamble, if you will, that they are going to be able to repeal the Obamacare mandate and essentially pay for the huge tax cut.

[11:05:01] They can't get over $1.5 trillion in costs. They can't add to the federal deficit after ten years. If they do either one of those things, they're not going to be able to pass this with a simple majority vote, and that's really the goal here.

They want to be able to pay for this and be able to pass it with a simple majority vote. So, what does this get them? Essentially, it gets them revenue. We are talking in the tune of $338 billion, which would be needed to pay for this.

And what happens when you repeal the mandate here? Another thing happens, the young, the healthy, very unlikely to sign up for health care, if they don't need it. That means the premiums estimated to go up for the rest of us at 10 percent.

The other thing that the Congressional Budget Office says is that there'll be 13 million more people who will be without coverage over ten years. So those are the kinds of debates they're having. Those are the things that are taking place.

Now, the last time when we got into all of this, Senator John McCain cast that vote that essentially killed the movement to repeal and replace Obamacare. He is now saying that he is willing to work with this plan.

The other two Republicans, Senator Murkowski, Lisa Murkowski, and Senator Susan Collins, not so much. They are not sold on this yet. They are still looking at the details. They still want more of a sense of what does this mean for their states and for their communities. So that's where we are.

On the House side, we do expect that there will be a vote on their plan, does not include repealing the mandate. That is expected to pass on the House side tomorrow, and then, a reconciliation process, if you will, afterwards.

We expect maybe a vote on the Senate plan after the Thanksgiving holiday. And Kate, should let you know, the Democrats, they're not sitting on their hands here. We do expect the leadership, Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, and a whole bunch of progressive groups up here on Capitol Hill, rallying, ready for this fight, as they did before in the health care debate.

They are going to bring out all guns and all of their ammunition, if you will, to make sure that that does not pass -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Because the math does remain the same. Even though the bills keep changing, the math remains the same, 52 Republicans in the Senate. They can lose two and still get this through. Let's see where this goes.

And the whole world can change, by the time Thanksgiving is over so let's see how much this bill changes by then. Great to see you, Suzanne.

So, let's talk about all of this. The impact of that tax bill and the impact of Roy Moore's race in Alabama on the Republican Party, on Washington, and beyond right now. But let's start there with Roy Moore.

Joining me to discuss, Steven Law. He's the head of the Senate Leadership Fund, a super PAC closely linked to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. Steven, it's great to see you. Thanks for coming in.


BOLDUAN: So you put millions against Roy Moore in the primary. You don't want him to be a senator, that's clearly no secret. But what is the best option now in your mind?

LAW: Well, I mean, look, I think if Roy Moore can be banned from a local shopping center for harassing young girls, we ought to be able to keep him banned from the U.S. Senate. This is somebody who has credible allegations against him, where as an adult, he was harassing teen girls and exploiting them.

These are things that really need to be treated seriously and where political considerations need to take the backseat to doing what's right. And Senator McConnell, very clearly engaged on looking for different options to resolve this issue, to make sure that Roy Moore doesn't end up in the U.S. Senate. And then, hopefully, if we're able to, to save this U.S. Senate seat.

BOLDUAN: Well, that's the question, though. What is the best option, though? Because he's not off the ballot. He's definitely not stepping side. What do you think is the best option? Do you think Jeff Sessions, as a write-in, is your best option?

LAW: Well, there are a few options and that would be an especially good one. Write-in campaigns are very, very hard to do successfully. There is probably no other Alabamian besides the attorney general who could do that and would have the gravitas and name I.D. with Alabama voters to be able to pull that off.

In addition to that, the governor could -- she's moved this election date before. She could move it again, given all the chaos surrounding this election. Right now, she seems unlikely to want to do that, because she's probably concerned about Roy Moore loyalist voters, and she's got her own primary next year.

But there are options to pursue. It's also possible for him not to be seated. It's also possible for him to be expelled if he is seated. There's an array of options, we just need to figure the right one.

BOLDUAN: Well, there is an array of options, but it seems no one's landed on which one is a good one because they all seem to be tough ones right now. If you get Jeff Sessions, which is a huge "if," to be a write-in candidate, are you concerned that you would then just split the Republican vote leading for the Democrat in the race to win?

LAW: Well, I think for the attorney general to even think about doing that, for the president to think that should be pursued, I think we would all have to be convinced that that is a workable strategy that we could soak up enough of the vote to make sure that Doug Jones --

BOLDUAN: Right now, are you not convinced?

LAW: -- that's the last thing we want to do. We're just taking a look at it right now. We're taking a good hard look at what the polls show and whether this is an achievable option. But, obviously, there are even bigger considerations than that at this moment.

BOLDUAN: You know, Steven, expelling Roy Moore from the Senate, if he wins, is that, of course, something that Mitch McConnell has talked about and is threatening.

[11:10:08] But this would be expelling a senator after he has won the vote, won the vote, won the election, and he has been voted in. Are you, then -- are they then, is the Senate then thwarting the will of the people?

LAW: Well, as "The New York Times" said the other day, Senator McConnell has a well-documented history of showing little tolerance for sexual misconduct in the Senate. Whether that was Larry Craig or Bob Packwood, when he was -- when Senator McConnell was chairman of the Senate Ethics Committee.

BOLDUAN: Right, but that happened when they were senators, not when they were running. This is known to the voters and if they still vote them in, are you thwarting the will of the voters?

LAW: Well, what's unique about the U.S. Senate is that it has its own rules. It has its own self-enforcing rules of conduct for senators. And it can enforce them itself, it can decide who it wants to seat or not, and it can also decide whom to expel or not.

And I would say that when Senator McConnell made the determination that Bob Packwood needed to be expelled from the Senate, initially, that was met with a lot of skepticism and a certain amount of resistance from his own caucus.

There were concerns about losing the seat. But one thing you have to give Senator McConnell credit for is, he takes these issues very seriously. He's methodical about it and usually wins.

BOLDUAN: Well, let's see. His record might be tested on that one this time. Steven Law, great to see you. Thanks for coming in.

LAW: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Also joining me now, Ned Ryun is the CEO of the conservative grassroots group, American Majority. Hilary Rosen is here, a CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist, and David Mowery, he's an Alabama political consultant who's worked for both Republicans and Democrats.

Let's start with taxes, though, because that is also important. We're just going to go back and forth, to keep you guys on your toes. Ned, try this one on for size for me. Here's a couple of things you heard when this idea with regard to -- let's call it, previously it was considered kind of the skinny repeal over the summer.

That's basically now, a little bit of it is being added into this health care -- to this tax bill, here's what we heard over the summer. Skinny repeal fell short because it fell short of our promise to repeal and replace Obamacare with meaningful reform. That's John McCain.

The skinny bill, as policy, is a disaster. That's Lindsey Graham. Doesn't even come close to honoring our promise of repealing Obamacare. That's Ron Johnson. Why are we not hearing any of that this time around, now that it's part of a tax bill?

NED RYUN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL WRITER FOR GEORGE W. BUSH: Kate, I'm never -- I never cease to be amazed that Republicans, if they were handed the football on the 20-yard line and the defense left the field, they would still throw an interception. This is, again, I've said this repeatedly.

I don't think you're actually going to see a tax bill before the end of the year. And I actually came out with an opinion piece at "The Hill" saying what the senator is proposing, even before I heard about this newest angle, I don't think it's really tax reform.

I'm in the middle to upper middle class and this would be a tax hike for me. And the Senate has also -- you know, one of the reasons they're having to look for extra money, Kate, they've given a really sweetheart deal to some real estate developers in shorting the depreciation lives --

BOLDUAN: Wait, so Ned, do you think the Obama -- the individual mandate, adding that in is a bad idea?

RYUN: I think strategically, they're going to have to address it with another bill. They've already made enough mistakes in this bill, Kate, to make it almost, I'm not sure they can reconcile it with the House bill, pushing back the corporate tax a year.

You know, the other thing that's really irritating some of us, Kate, is this whole not closing of the carried interest loophole. So, while some of us are getting a tax hike as the bill now stands, the private equity and hedge fund guys are still getting that carried interest loophole. So, there's a lot of problems with the Senate tax bill as it now stands.

BOLDUAN: Hilary, you don't agree with the policy, of course, when it comes to including this individual mandate repeal in a tax bill, of course, but when it comes to politics, do you think it's smart to at least try to ensure the Republicans stay onboard and get it done?

HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, if anything, I think it's like putting, you know, an elephant on top of a mouse and asking him to carry it across the finish line. It's like -- you know, a very strong mouse, a very strong mouse, nonetheless, doesn't matter. It's still an elephant.

You've got 13 million people that the Congressional Budget Office estimated would be thrown off of the insurance rolls if you just did that so-called skinny repeal. So now you've got this narrative which is, the Republicans are going to jeopardize health care for 13 million low-income Americans in order to give corporate tax rate reduction, which is really kind of the only beneficiary in this bill as Ned just pointed out.

So I do think, you know, forget about the bad policy, they just brought a whole heap of bad arguments on to themselves.

BOLDUAN: David, let me bring you in on the other issue that Republicans are facing right now, tough issue that Republicans are facing, what to do about Roy Moore. You just heard me speak with Steven Law, the head of the super PAC that spent a lot of money on that primary between Luther Strange and Roy Moore.

[11:15:02] And he says there's a lot of options out there, we just need to figure out which is the right one. What is the impact of the options that are being discussed by Mitch McConnell, Paul Ryan, now even Jeff Sessions piling on and saying that he -- that he's basically lining up against Roy Moore. Is it starting to impact on the ground?

DAVID MOWERY, INDEPENDENT POLITICAL AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS CONSULTANT: I don't really think so. You know, Roy Moore isn't going to do -- he's not going to do anything to get off the ballot. He's been thrown off three courts, the Supreme Court, the Supreme Court again, and the Gadsen Food Court.

So, you know, there's nothing that he's going to do to let himself be off the ballot and they don't have a viable option. Right now, Sessions isn't a viable option, is he? Because he even said, I don't even really want to return to the Senate.

But while you were talking to Steven, I came up with a really good idea. There's a Republican out there that might do it and might be able to win and everybody in Alabama knows how to spell his name. It's Charles Barkley.

BOLDUAN: There you go. Is Charles Barkley a Republican?

MOWERY: Yes, he is.

BOLDUAN: I didn't even know that.

ROSEN: It seems bizarre to me that everybody in Alabama, you know, in political circles, knew about Roy Moore doing this. Roy Moore made a career out of judging the values and morals of other people. He made a career literally out of demonizing people who he said had low moral or Christian values.

And, yet, at the same time, you know, he was known to law enforcement as somebody you couldn't trust walking around a shopping mall. So, the fact that the Republicans find themselves in this predicament now --

MOWERY: I don't think that anybody actually knew that.

ROSEN: OK, you know what --

RYUN: This is the thing that's amazing to me, Kate, listen, and I think Roy Moore --

ROSEN: Wait, wait, wait let me finish -- the reporters did not have to do a lot of work to find these women. They didn't have to do a lot of stories and reporters in Alabama are now telling us that their phones are ringing off the hook.

So, the fact that the Republicans have this short-term problem, I think, is just -- it's not anyone else's problem, but theirs. And I actually don't trust the majority leader and the Republicans in the Senate if he wins to throw him out. I don't think that they will. I think it's up to the people of Alabama to stand up and say, this is not someone we want to represent us.

BOLDUAN: You think it might be an empty threat. Ned, I want you to get in on this, but can I also just play -- there are two other folks, it's not just in Washington, that are weighing in. And I think there's been an important signal or shift here. Conservative firebrands, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, they've both been -- just started signaling that they are no longer standing by this guy. Listen to what they've said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RUSH LIMBAUGH, TALK RADIO HOST: Did you know that before 1992, when a lot of this was going on, that Judge Moore was a Democrat?

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: For me, the judge has 24 hours. You must immediately and fully come up with a satisfactory explanation for your inconsistencies that I just showed. You must remove any doubt. If you can't do this, then Judge Moore needs to get out of this race.


BOLDUAN: Is the writing on the wall with that, Ned?

RYUN: Well, you know, I think the thing that's a little interesting about especially Hannity, he's close to the White House. I'm just wondering if maybe the White House is signaling through Hannity what might be coming next.

But there are a lot of inconsistencies. Roy Moore has, you know, there's some answers that need to be given. I do think it's kind of interesting, though, Kate, after what, 30, 40 years in the public life, after all the (inaudible) research done against him, the timing of this is just interesting to me.

That all said, Roy Moore has to answer some questions and right now there's a lot of inconsistencies. The amazing thing to me, Kate, I kind of agree with Mitch McConnell. I would love for Jeff Sessions to do a write-in campaign, and then you get a good candidate, and two, I would get a real attorney general. So, I would be happy with that solution.

BOLDUAN: And there you go! That's a whole other conversation that I do want to have. Then you get an attorney general who doesn't have to recuse himself from a Russia investigation.

RYUN: That's right.

BOLDUAN: And what does that mean for Bob Mueller? Intriguing. Intriguing there, Ned Ryun. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. We'll leave it there for now.

Coming up for us, President Trump up early after his big trip to Asia, 13 days, five countries, what does he have to show for it? And what does college basketball have to do with it. We're going live to the White House.

Plus, potentially, millions of dollars paid out to settle sexual harassment lawsuits on Capitol Hill. Who is footing the bill and what are they doing about it now?



BOLDUAN: So what does jet lag look like at the White House? Are you wondering that? Because I have been. For President Trump, it's getting up early and getting back on Twitter, declaring, quote, "Our great country is respected again in Asia."

Also complaining he was forced to watch CNN while overseas and also fishing for compliments for intervening on behalf of arrested college basketball players in China. But what about that promised, quote/unquote, "major announcement" upon his return? No word yet.

But it's not like he doesn't have -- it's not like he doesn't wake up to a full plate today. Let's get over to the White House and senior White House correspondent, Jeff Zeleny. Hey, there, Jeff. What's going on over there today?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate. There's no question the president is getting back engaged in all the workings of Washington, and a lot of that is happening up on Capitol Hill.

I am told the president is becoming -- he's getting up to speed through conversations with leaders and others about what is happening with the tax bill, first and foremost, on the Senate.

He's planning to deeper -- to become more deeply engaged on the House vote when they have that tomorrow. But we are also anticipating at least the president's aides are planning for a potential announcement, a speech this afternoon.

The president wants to talk about his accomplishments. He had said earlier in the week, when he was in the Philippines, that he would give a speech here on Wednesday then he said, it could happen on Thursday. I'm told aides are still expecting for it to potentially be this afternoon, to talk about what he sees as accomplishments from the trip.

But Kate, there's no question about it, that the Alabama Senate race is weighing heavily over this White House, because it affects the math of how many Republicans could be in the Senate. So, watch for the president to potentially engage on Roy Moore.

[11:25:08] I am told he is waiting to see sort of how this goes. He's waiting to see if he stays in the race or not, but he's not going to weigh in initially. But he is weighing in on something else, as you said, on that basketball situation, from China.

Let's take a look at that message he sent out, just a short time ago. Again, he said, "Do you think that three UCLA basketball players will say thank you, President Trump? They were headed for ten years in jail."

Of course, this is for the three basketball players who were arrested in China last week for allegedly stealing sunglasses. The president had a conversation with Chinese President Xi Jinping over this and they were released overnight.

Interesting that the president decided to send out this message here, sort of looking for thanks on this. But, he did that, but we're still waiting for what he has to say on his trip, and more importantly, if he weighs in on Roy Moore -- Kate. BOLDUAN: I find that fascinating, that he might wait and not be weighing in right away upon his return on Roy Moore because this has been blowing up since he's been away. And he said no problem weighing in on other domestic issues. But waiting in on this one even passed today, I find fascinating.

ZELENY: We will see.

BOLDUAN: Exactly right, the only thing we say. Great to see you, Jeff. Thank you so much. Joining me now, Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee. Great to see you, Congressman.


BOLDUAN: So the president is back in town. Where do you see signs that he made big progress? Where do you see signs of success from his trip?

KINZINGER: So this is what's always interesting to me. So, I don't know yet. I think he's going to make announcements. We'll see when it's all kind of the after, but I've never seen a president come back, unless it's like, you know, Ronald Reagan meeting with Gorbachev, where they come back with some massive signed agreement and massive success in hand.

Really, a presidential trip is all about making the statement that we're engaged and we're focused. Where I think the president did himself some real good in Asia was just the fact that, you know, I feel -- and you talk to frankly my friends on the other side of the aisle here on the Hill.

When President Obama did the pivot away from the Middle East to Asia, he never actually really pivoted to Asia. I think by the president being there, it sent a very strong message, unify our allies against our adversaries, like North Korea, and we'll see if there's any trade news to come out. That will be up to him to announce. I don't know.

BOLDUAN: And a lot of things with Obama on that pivot to Asia got in the way like just, what happened in the world at the moment.

KINZINGER: That's it, yes.

BOLDUAN: That's exactly right. On taxes, do you support, Congressman, right now adding the repeal of the individual mandate to tax reform, as they're doing in the Senate?

KINZINGER: I don't want to see it because I think it muddies the water. I think we should do tax reform as pure tax reform, this throws health care into it. I'm not saying I would vote against it if it came out of the conference bill. Ours doesn't have it in. I'm not actually convinced it's going to get out of the Senate with this mandate in it.

BOLDUAN: Why not? KINZINGER: Look at what you've seen in the past. You've seen a number of senators that have voted against basically the skinny repeal, which was basically this thing. So, I'm not sure if it has the votes. I don't know. I'm not in the Senate, maybe it does, but that will be interesting.

So, when that ends up going to conference with our bill, which doesn't have the repeal, we'll see what comes out. I think it muddies the water a little too much, but I'm not going to tank tax reform for it. And I also still want to repeal Obamacare, it's just obviously we failed at that for about ten months.

BOLDUAN: Do you think if it's added, and if you would vote for it in the end, because it's not like you're anti-getting it in, does this hurt your chances in following through on the actual promise of repealing and replacing Obamacare eventually?

KINZINGER: Yes, I mean, I think we've basically failed at that, anyway. We did our best to get it done. It came very close in the Senate, couldn't get it done. And I think what we risk, as a party, is frankly making this issue continually going forward.

I've said, you know, while I still want to repeal and replace this bill, there's still real people hurting, and Obamacare is actually failing. So, we need to do what we can to make sure that people's lives are not really harmed in this process.

BOLDUAN: Well, let's talk about -- let's talk about whose lives are impacted by the tax bill, writ large. This is supposed to be a middle-class tax bill.

KINZINGER: And it is.

BOLDUAN: One big selling point has been that the cuts to corporate taxes will benefit workers because the companies will reinvest that extra cash. At a "Wall Street Journal" event yesterday, a group of CEOs were asked exactly what this means for them. Listen to this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I ask you all a quick question? If the tax reform bill goes through, do you plan to increase investment -- your company's investment, capital investment? Just a show of hands if the tax reform goes through? OK --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why aren't the other hands up? why aren't the other hands up?


BOLDUAN: In case you missed it --

KINZINGER: Don't ask a question you don't know the answer to.

BOLDUAN: There you go! Only a few of the CEOs raised their hands and Gary Cohn seemed confused by it. I mean, do you think you should rethink this? That is -- that is a telling moment.

KINZINGER: No, look, if you go back to two years ago, President Obama was all about cutting corporate tax rates. He understands it and frankly, honestly, my friend on the other side of the aisle understand that our corporate taxes are way out of line for the rest of the world. You have to -- you have to adjust with this millennium. We have a tax code from the 1986 and --

BOLDUAN: That's --