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North Korea Slams Trump, Says "He Deserves Death"; Trump Tweets He Expects Thank You from Released UCLA Basketball Players; What It Would Take to Expel Roy Moore from Senate If Elected; Sexual Harassment Accusations on Capitol Hill & Settlements Paid with Tax Dollars; Firsthand Look at "Ethnic Cleansing" in Myanmar; Apparent Coup Underway as Military Takes Control of Zimbabwe. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired November 15, 2017 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00] WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: "He should know that he is just a hideous criminal sentenced to death by the Korean people. He will be forced to pay dearly for his blasphemy any moment."
Joining us now someone who understands full well the threat North Korea poses, former ambassador to China under President Obama, Max Baucus.
Mr. Ambassador, thanks very much for joining us.
MAX BAUCUS, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: You bet, Wolf.
BLITZER: Is that just rhetoric coming from North Korea? Is there a serious threat? How do you interpret it?
BAUCUS: It's unfortunate two the leaders of two countries insult each other so much. It's harmful. It's not helpful. I think it's mostly rhetoric, but it doesn't happy create an environment nor dialogue.
BLITZER: Do you think it could escalate into actual tensions? Because there's a nuclear tension that is escalating right now.
BAUCUS: That's correct. There's been a bit of a lull. Kim Jong-Un has not fired off missiles or nuclear devices in the last several weeks. Second, president from South Korea, Moon, is scheduled to visit President Xi in China next month. Add to that, one of the top party envoys going to North Korea. That will help smooth things over. That's good.
BLITZER: China is sending this emissary to North Korea right now. That seems like a positive move right now, because there's been tension between China and North Korea.
BAUCUS: That's right. I think China wants to keep the dialogue open, keep the channels of communication open. It's kind of tricky. China also wants to work with South Korea a little bit but doesn't want to the offend North Korea by getting to close to South Korea.
BLITZER: Maybe all the pressure President Trump put on President Xi in China and others in China is paying off right now.
BAUCUS: It might. All these little lulls are helpful, but for the tweet storm back and forth. That's not.
BLITZER: The rhetoric is not good. But you're right. It's been several months since there was a nuclear test or a ballistic missile test. That's encouraging. Although that could change any day. So far, it's encouraging.
BAUCUS: You can't hold your breath on this stuff because governments of North Korea and China are opaque. You don't know what's going on. When I was in China last week, it's very clear, talking to Chinese friends in the government and private sector, China wants to play a responsible role generally and are feeling their oats. Compared with Trump's perceived decline in the United States, they're feeling their oats. This may be an opportunity for China to exercise their leadership.
BLITZER: It's interesting the president raised the issue of these three UCLA basketball players, arrested in China, supposedly for shoplifting.
BAUCUS: Right.
BLITZER: And they were released. They're back in Los Angeles right now.
BAUCUS: Right.
BLITZER: The president just tweeted, "Do you think the three UCLA basketball players will say thank you, President Trump? They were headed for 10 years in jail."
Clearly, the president raised it with President Xi and these three basketball players are free.
BAUCUS: That's the good news. But I would like to see President Xi do something more substantive. It's good he released three basketball players. That's good. But there are existential issues facing U.S. with respect to China. Its nuclear crisis in the peninsula and all the trade issues that apparently Trump did not raise with any significant result.
BLITZER: We'll see what he has to say. We're anticipating he will say something. He's promising a major statement. We'll see.
BAUCUS: We'll see what it is.
BLITZER: We'll see what it is. Then we'll continue our conversation.
BAUCUS: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Ambassador Baucus, thanks very much for joining us.
BAUCUS: Thank you. You bet.
BLITZER: Coming up, millions spent to settle sexual harassment cases and claims up on Capitol Hill. Guess who is picking up the tab? The U.S. taxpayer. What should they do to address the problem? Our panel getting ready weigh in.
(COMMERCIAL BREAWK)
[13:35:00] BLITZER: Lots of questions surrounding the fate of the Alabama Republican Senate candidate, Roy Moore. We're waiting to see if President Trump weighs in on allegations of sexual assault against Moore. And what it would take for Senators to expel Moore if he were to win the election December 12th. Moore would be sworn in. The majority leader, Mitch McConnell, would lead the charge to find Moore unfit for office. Two-thirds of the U.S. Senate would have to vote to remove him. Then he would appoint an interim Senator until a special election could be held.
Let's bring in our panel, CNN politics reporter and editor-at-large, Chris Cillizza, and Amber Phillips, reporter for the "Washington Post" political blog, The Fix.
Amber, what do you think? Is the president going to step into the controversy?
AMBER PHILLIPS, REPORTER & BLOGGER, THE FIX, WASHINGTON POST: I think his silence suggests he doesn't know what he's going to do. The president is in a really tough situation. If he decides to give Roy Moore the benefit of the doubt, he is on the other side of the rest of Washington, except for Steve Bannon right now. Then there's also the issue of the president's own accusers, women who, just like Roy Moore, put out their names on the record, dates, details of their stories. The president has said they are all lying. If he wants to say, you know what, I think Roy Moore should go and join the rest of the Republican Party, he's got to explain why it's different.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: It's an awkward situation for him.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER & CNN EDITO-AT-LARGE: Yes. I mean, the moral high ground will be a hard place for Donald Trump to seize here exactly to her point. Why are all the women who accuse Donald Trump of things lying but Roy Moore's defense which is all these women are lying is somehow not acceptable. In some ways it highlights the hypocrisy happening here. Mitch McConnell very much pushing Roy Moore out did not try to push Donald Trump out amid all these allegations. He doesn't have a lot of good options. I would say tonally and approach-wise -- I mean endorsed Luther Strange in that primary. He's more of a Roy Moore guy than he is a Mitch McConnell person. He views McConnell as having given him bad advice to endorse Luther Strange to distinguish go to the state because he didn't think he could win. He has to say something. Amber is right. The reason we haven't heard anything yet is because he doesn't they don't know what to do. He has to say something. As the a gigantic be story.
[13:40:22] BLITZER: There's another story, allegations of sexual misconduct on Capitol Hill. Listen to what Democratic Congresswoman Jackie Speier, of California, just said, and then we'll discuss.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JACKIE SPEIER, (D), CALIFORNIA: In the last 20 years, there have been 260 settlements at a cost to the taxpayers of this country of $15 million. That $15 million has been there to silence victims of all types of workplace discrimination. Today, we are here to change that. Abusers and sexual predators have thrived in the shadows in our current system where all the power is deliberately taken away from the survivor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: She's also suggested, said there are two sitting members of Congress who abused women. She has not named names.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Is what I say to that. Listen, I think that we've been in a moment in time for the past couple weeks or months where you've had heads of state accused of sexual harassment. Giants of entertainment. Besides Roy Moore this hasn't filtered to lawmakers till now. The reason for that is Congress gets to write its own rules how sexual harassment is dealt with. As this Congresswoman pointed out in vivid terms, lawmakers when they get accused of something and decide to settle, it's very arduous for the victim to try to prove that point. They have to go through counseling and lawmakers don't have to pay anything. They don't have to pay a dime. It comes out of taxpayer dollars.
BLITZER: This is $15 million. Doesn't the public deserve to know where that went?
CILLIZZA: Number one, I'd urge people to read the piece by M.J. Lee and Sunlen Serfaty on the rules Amber referenced.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: CNN.com.
CILLIZZA: These arcane rules on CNN.com. This is stunning. The rules feel like they're from 250 years ago in terms of how victims report and how that gets litigated out.
PHILLIPS: Victim heavy.
CILLIZZA: The other thing is, how is this not a bigger story? And $15 million of taxpayer money has been paid out to at least most of it as Congresswoman spear said most they believe to silence or quiet sexual harassment accusations in Congress? I mean, that's stunning. I would assume we're going to hear much more about this. I thought that hearing yesterday in which Congresswoman Comstock, from northern Virginia, a Republican, Congresswoman Speier, others, told stories regarding elevators, regarding staffers going to a home and a member of Congress disrobing. This is the stuff -- I cannot believe candidly, maybe I'm naive, I cannot believe these things are happening.
And again, these are our leaders. Whatever you think of Congress, these are people elected to lead the country, policy-wise and by example. And so I think they need to start doing that. We need to see a transparent process by which this stuff is explained, the rules are made far less -- to Amber's point, far less sort of victim -- the proof is on the victim. And I hope that this will shine a light on that because this is literally crazy, Wolf, that the payments and stories coming out are crazy.
BLITZER: We're going to be learning a lot more about this in the coming days, weeks and months.
Thanks very much, Chris Cillizza and Amber Phillips. Appreciate it.
Coming up, a CNN exclusive. Our own Clarissa Ward gets a firsthand look at the massacre unfolding in Myanmar, what's being called ethnic cleansing. A look at how refugee babies and families risk everything to escape. CNN is there.
[13:44:04] We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Secretary of State Rex Tillerson says the Myanmar refugee crisis is showing some signs of crimes against humanity. Tillerson made the comments after a meeting with the leader, Aung San Suu Kyi. He says he's not prepared to follow the U.K., the E.U. and the U.N. in calling the situation, quote, "ethnic cleansing." Adding this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATE: We're deeply concerned about credible reports of widespread atrocities committed by Myanmar's security forces and by vigilantes who are unrestrained by the security forces during the recent violence in Rakhine State. We're also distressed by the fact that hundreds of thousands of men, women and children have been forced to flee to Bangladesh.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: No matter what you label the situation, the fact is a religious minority is being targeted in their homeland of Myanmar. They are homeless, they are desperate, they are dependent on mercy from a world that has shown them none.
In a CNN exclusive, our Clarissa Ward spoke to many who are risking everything to escape.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At first light, you can see them dotted along the coastal road, homeless, stateless, huddled in the cool dawn. They are known as the most persecuted minority in the world.
The distance they have come is not far, but the journey is long. For many, it begins on this river. That's Myanmar on the other side. Every day, hundreds of Rohingya Muslims try to cross it to safety. [13:50:10] (on camera): So we can see now, coming towards the shore
one, two, three, four, five, six different rafts, all of them have at least 20 to 30 people on them.
(voice-over): Crudely made of plastic and bamboo, and laden with whatever belongings could be salvaged.
They're not welcome on this shore. The Coast Guard waves them further on. So we wade out to talk to them.
WARD (on camera): (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WARD: How are you? How many hours have you been on the boat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
WARD: Since early in the morning?
Do you know how to swim?
(voice-over): "No one does."
Yet, the raft is full of children.
"Of course, we are worried. Look, she has twos babies," this woman tells us. "The kids were practically slipping off the raft."
The U.N. says that scores of Rohingya have died making this crossing, but that hasn't stopped them from trying.
We can't follow them any further. So they drift on down the river unsure of what awaits them.
Their best hope is that they end up in one of these camps, that aid workers have called a massive slum in the jungle.
(WHISTLE)
WARD: Bangladesh is struggling to cope. Another 200,000 refugees are expected in the coming weeks.
For the Rohingya, life here is a constant battle.
(SHOUTING)
WARD: Dignity is hard to come by.
These are refugees with no refuge.
As dusk approaches, we happen upon a group who made it to shore. They tell us they crossed at 2:00 a.m. to use the cover of night.
(on camera): Where will you go from here?
"We will go wherever they will take us," she says. "But whatever happens, we won't go back."
Dependent on the mercy of a world that has so far shown them none.
Clarissa Ward, CNN, on the Bangladesh/Myanmar border.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And thanks to Clarissa and her team for that really powerful report. Doing amazing work out there in the field. Thank you so much.
More news we're following, he's 93 years old, he's accuses of brutality, corruption and luxurious living, but now an apparent coup under way targeting the long-time leader of Zimbabwe. Stand by. We have breaking details.
Another story we're following, moments from now, three UCLA basketball players, released by China, are set to speak out after President Trump requests their praise.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:57:20] BLITZER: Major development. Let's get to the political crisis unfolding in Zimbabwe right now where the military is clearly taking charge and the country's president is under house arrest. The army says President Robert Mugabe is safe, but they won't say where he is and they are denying this is a coup. The U.N. secretary-general is urging all sides to show restraint right now.
Our correspondent, David McKenzie, is there, on the scene for us.
David, update our viewers on what is happening and why it is happening right now.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What's happening, Wolf, is there is a very tense situation in Zimbabwe. Robert Mugabe, the president of this president or the leader of this country for nearly four decades, is holed up in his residence, we believe, under detention, house arrest of some kind. You've got armored personnel carriers that we have seen throughout the city at key strategic points, at courts, government building and the presidential palace, as well as militaries on the streets checking I.D.s and clearly in control. No sign of police here, Wolf.
Now the military came out and gave a statement on national television saying this is not a coupe. But everything we are seeing is they are, de facto, in control of this country, Zimbabwe. The U.S. embassy is closed. They're asking for American citizens to hunker down and stay safe. It is a very volatile situation. Countries in the region, especially South Africa, is scrambling to try to solve this situation peacefully.
It is all because factional fighting within the ruling party and the battle to succeed the ageing leader, Robert Mugabe, who has been ruling this country with an iron fist for so long. Zimbabweans really feeling it's an eerie calm, but tense, wondering what will happen to Robert Mugabe and his wife, Grace Mugabe. Will they be sent out of the country in the coming hours? We expect the president to make a statement soon. But it is a very, very tense situation here in Zimbabwe -- Wolf?
BLITZER: Certainly is a very tense situation. We'll stay on top of it, together with you.
David McKenzie is on the scene for us. We'll see what happened for the 93-year-old Robert Mugabe.
Thank you very much for that report.
Coming up, they almost caused an international incident over a pair of sunglasses. Three UCLA basketball players arrested for shoplifting in China. They are now back in California. They have returned home. We are standing by for a press conference as President Trump makes clear, once these three basketball players speak, just tweeted a little while ago, he wants to get a thank you from them for getting them out.
[14:00:11] ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
