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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
Mugabe Faces Military Ultimatum; 21st Century Fox Shares Rally as Bidders Circle; Saudi Tourism Boss Plans Travel Overhaul; Libya Launches a Slavery Investigation; Movie Companies Hope to Overcome Saudi Cinema Ban. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired November 17, 2017 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:00] RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: The closing bell ringing on Wall Street and the end of a busy week. Dow Jones Industrials is lower. In
fact, most of the markets are lower. Both in Europe and in the United States it's been a roller coaster of a week. Time to bring it to a close.
Hit the gavel, sir. Ah, firm. That's the way you do it. To bring trading to a close. Today is Friday, the 17th of November.
Tonight, leave now or we'll do it the hard way. Robert Mugabe facing an ultimatum in Zimbabwe. I'll speak to the country's former finance
There is a sign that says for sale outside the house of Murdoch and there are plenty of interested buyers. Why are they selling? And the Saudi
King's son has gone to outer space. Now he wants to bring the world to Riyadh. The Prince has come on this program this evening. Tonight, live,
from Riyadh, I'm Richard Quest in Saudi Arabia. Where, of course, I mean business.
Good evening. Tonight, Robert Mugabe, may be running out of time to save his future a Zimbabwe's president. A source says that the military's
warning Mr. Mugabe that unless he steps down tonight, they will do things the hard way. Earlier, the president, as he still is, showed up at a
university graduation ceremony in the capital, Harare. Following two days of house arrest. From behind the scenes the president is refusing to
relinquish power to an interim leader as the U.S. Secretary of State is urging calm all around.
Let's find out the position, as understood by those who are there. Tendai Biti is former Zimbabwean finance minister serving under the main
opposition leader. And joins me now from the capital, Harare. He joins me via Skype. Good to have you with us, sir. What is your understanding
tonight of the role, the presence of Robert Mugabe?
TENDAI BITI, FORMER ZIMBABWEAN FINANCE MINISTER (via skype): Well, I think the Presidents time is up. And I think that he must do the right thing.
And give Zimbabwe a chance by resigning, so that Zimbabwe can begin afresh. And what is so key to our alliance -- then to see our alliances, but we
need to see a quick restoration to legitimacy. And we need to see that it works that to that legitimacy. And in between this we would like to see a
transitional -- initial transitional authority to govern our country which can attend to the two key issues of electoral reform, democratic reform,
political reform, legal reform, constitutional reform.
QUEST: Right. But you've got to get rid of Robert Mugabe first. And it's not clear that he's prepared to go. So, do you support the armed forces
basically, in their words, doing it the hard way?
BITI: Well, a military coup is an infraction and an insult on the Constitution. So as democrats we are (INAUDIBLE) -- that with legitimacy
and the rule of law prevail. So our hope is that President Robert Mugabe, who is very intelligent man, can recognize the time is up, and can
recognize that the country can't afford a violent dislocation. The country can't afford to feel the loss of live. The country has been traumatized
particularly in the last few days, because it's not every day you have military coup. So, we need peace. We need stability. We need to attend
to constitutional legitimacy so that the new authorities can start to begin with the business of recovering our country.
QUEST: I understand what you're saying in relation to what the country needs. But the problem is, it seems he won't go. And the military
Commander has said, we'll do it the hard way. And to the rest of the world, it looks like there's been an apparent coup. So, who at the moment
is in charge in Zimbabwe?
BITI: Well, a coup is coup. It's not an apparent coup. It's a coup. So, the military is absolutely in charge. They have power. And with the
president's resignation or surrender or forced removal. They'll have (INAUDIBLE) as well. Currently the Southern African Development Community
is meeting tomorrow, on Saturday.
[16:05:03] So the hope is that dialogue and mediation can peaceful resolve this modern crisis. As I said before, this is a country that has been
rocked by turbulence ever since (INAUDIBLE), so we need peace. We need timeout. We need stability. President Mugabe should do the right thing
and simply resign to give Zimbabweans a chance.
QUEST: All right. Now, once this happens, and it does look as if one way or another, the Mugabe era is over. There will be an interim period. And
then elections. Do you stand ready to play a role in any new government, if Morgan Tsvangirai, if the opposition were to win? Or if there was to be
coalition, a national government of unity? Will you be part of that?
BITI: Well, I'm a proud member of the MDC Alliance, led by Morgan Tsvangirai, he's our leader. So only today we took a decision that we will
not let those who oppressed us, those who abused us in the past, have free reign. So, the MDC Alliance will be part of the dialogue. We'll be part
of the debate. And the narrative to recreate a new Zimbabwe, to recapture Zimbabwe. So as a team, the MTC alliance will firmly be part of the
dialogue that will be there to replace and fill the vacuum left by President Mugabe.
QUEST: Tendai Biti, thank you for joining us from Harare. We'll talk more about this, of course, as matters progress.
So, we turn to our business agenda. And tonight, a key part of the Murdoch empire appears to be on the block as the suitors' line up. The parts of
21st Century Fox. It all happened just after you and I were together this time last night. A news of the overtures has pushed Fox shares up nearly 7
percent on Friday alone. Sources are telling CNN that Rupert Murdoch is eager to make a deal. And this deal would sell the movie studios and the
TV unites and the international businesses. Now that's the part that Comcast is most interested in. Known as NBC Universal, along with big
cable operators, buying satellite channels, including Skye in the U.K. and Star in Asia, would give it true global reach.
Verizon has its eye on the Fox entertainment business. It needs to take on AT&T, which is your well aware of course, is hoping to combine with Time
Warner, parent company of CNN. Now, out of the limelight, but perhaps not out of the picture, Disney, who originally had talks with Fox. And it's
possible that Disney could revisit them. But for the moment, Fox seems to be up for sale. Brian Stelter is our senior media correspondent, and needs
a suitable introduction.
BRIAN STELTER, CNNMONEY SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Beautiful.
QUEST: There you are, Brain.
STELTER: First time for everything. Thank you, Richard.
QUEST: So, the fanfare from 21st Century Fox, for you, sir, to explain two sides of this issue. We'll start with why is Rupert wanting to sell?
These are trophy assets. Many of them like Skye, highly profitable.
STELTER: I'm bringing that band with me wherever I go now. That was awesome. The first answer on Rupert Murdoch, he may be looking at the
media universe the same way Time Warner CEO, Jeff Bewkes is. Bewkes made a bet last year that now was the right time to sell this company, CNN, HBO,
Warner Brothers, off to AT&T, because as we head into the digital age, there appears to be more digital disruption, there is a feeling among some
executives that these assets may never be as valuable as they are in these couple of years. So, Murdoch might be looking around thinking the same
thing. Looking at competitors like Netflix and thinking now is the right time to get the most for his money.
Clearly, he has some buyers who are very interested, including, as you mentioned, Verizon and Comcast. There could be others in the mix, as well.
Sony, Amazon. There are a lot of companies interested in looking at the books here, as one source said to me, we didn't know until ten days ago
that Murdoch was interested in selling at all. This was a total surprise that he was talking to Disney. And that's why others have lit up his phone
QUEST: Now, that explains one side of the equation. There are various different reasons why all the others would want it. Who -- which makes the
most sense? Verizon, for Comcast, for Disney? Who is the best fit for the Murdoch potential sale?
[16:10:00] STELTER: You know there was a really interesting report on Fox Business today saying that Verizon or another technology company like
Verizon might have a better chance here. Might be a more likely buyer. Given uncertainty, over whether the government would approve a deal between
say Comcast and Fox. What is happening with AT&T and Time Warner is affecting everything else in the media space.
Because there's a lot of uncertainty. What's the government going to do? Is Trump's administration really going to block AT&T and make it hard to
buy Time Warner? That has caused a little chill in the air. So yes, Comcast is still interested. Yes, others are interested. But it may be a
little cleaner to do a deal with Verizon. Even that bill is not a guarantee. I think until we see what the Justice Department does with AT&T
and Time Warner, we may not see an announcement about any Fox deal.
QUEST: More intrigue than you could write a good script about. Brian Stelter in New York, thank you.
QUEST: We will stay in New York on Wall Street, where the Dow ended today with a 100-point loss. So, take a look at the numbers. Tesla shares
spiked after Elon Musk unveiled an electric semi-truck that pushed shares of the diesel manufacturer down sharply, a local manufacturer. Now, look
at that market on New York. It was sharply down, and fell a good 20 odd points in the last moment or two of trade. It never looked good on Friday.
Crude oil prices have surged more than 2 percent. The Saudi oil minister says OPEC should agree to extend a production cut. Cartel members and
other major producers are due to meet in two weeks' time. The volatility in the oil markets follows the IEA, International Energy Agency, predicting
an historic shift for the global economy. The U.S. is set for the biggest growth in gas production of any country in history. Currently, 24 billion
-- 24 million, of course, barrels of oil and gas every day are produced. The most of any country in the world. The IEA says that number is set to
soar to 30 million by mid next decade.
Gary Evans is the chief executive of the independent oil company, Energy Hunter Resources. He joins me from Florida. Gary, I feel like I'm sort of
the poacher or the game keeper. Here I am in Saudi Arabia. Which churns out so much for OPEC. But the reality is, what's happening where you are
in the U.S. is potentially the biggest threat to the income to Saudi and co.
GARY EVANS, CEO, ENERGY HUNTER RESOURCES: No Question, the United States oil and gas industry has been a huge thorn in the side of Saudi Arabia, as
well as all of OPEC, the countries that are producing oil worldwide.
QUEST: If that is the case, how does the U.S., as the new swing producer, if it has any control over the price, other than market forces? Because
they don't have the ability to turn the tap on or off, other than as the price rises or falls.
EVANS: It's a very good point. You have to remember that the United States was prohibited by law that lasted over 40 years to export crude oil.
That law was changed by the Obama administration at the end of 2015. So now the United States competes with OPEC, which has never done before, by
exporting crude oil. And we've hit over 2.5 million barrels a day at times. So, we are now becoming an exporter that's competing directly with
OPEC members. And that's something that Saudi Arabia or other members of OPEC never intended on, is that U.S. shale industry could be this
We learned how to live with $27 oil when it hit 27. We are now at 56. And we continue to get better and better at what we do. So, economics have
improved, and the cost of doing business has continued to excel in our industry. And I think it's completely shocked Saudi Arabia, as well as
QUEST: The fascinating part, of course, is that the geopolitical instability that might exist in this part of the world where I am tonight
pushes up the price. Thereby, increasing the profits also in the United States. It's a sort of win-win in a sense for the U.S. Prices low they
will produce more. Price is high, it's a windfall.
EVANS: Yes, but in reality, today, we probably have the smallest geopolitical premium in the price of oil than we've ever had in history.
With all the things going on around the world, oil should be a whole lot higher. But that is not priced into the market. So, what we've been
having to do for the last two-and-a-half to three years is whittle down this huge oversupply of crude oil existed in tankers around the world,
existed in storage facilities. And that's whittling down. Go ahead.
[16:15:03] QUEST: Gary, finally, in your view, is the U.S. role in all of this -- I mean, is it just a nuisance in the sense of its disrupting what
was otherwise maybe a valid one from your point of view -- but actually, it's a disrupter in what was otherwise a sort of duopoly market?
EVANS: No question that Saudi Arabia had the spigots. They could turn the oil production up or they could cut it back. All you have to do is look
back for the last 35 or 40 years of history and you can see all the different times when they adjusted crude oil prices worldwide. For the
first time, they have a country like the United States that is producing significant amounts of crude oil that's being exported, and they have zero
control of us. So, it makes their job a whole lot more difficult.
QUEST: Gary, great to have you. We must have you more often, please, on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS. We look forward to talking to you on oil issues in
the future. Thank you, sir, for taking time tonight.
Now here in Saudi, drill into the ground, and you'll strike oil pretty much everywhere. Drill into Saudi Aramco, and you'll find lots of money.
There's a Transatlantic contest under way to post Saudi Aramco's IPO, which is expected to be the world's biggest ever. Will talk about it after the
QUEST: Saudi Arabia's energy minister insists, the Kingdom's corruption crackdown will not affect Saudi Aramco's initial public offering, IPO.
Khalid al-Falih calls the clampdown a domestic affair that's of no concern to international investors. Saudi Aramco is integral to this country's
economy. The present, certainly. The future, absolutely. CNN's Anna Stuart reports.
ANNA STUART, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It dwarfs all other oil companies. Saudi Aramco produces over 10 million barrels of crude a day.
That's one in ten of every barrel consumed around the world. Far more than the likes of Exxon, BP and Shell. Now, it's set to claim a new record, the
biggest IPO in the world ever.
It's the cornerstone of Saudi Arabia's reform plan, Vision 2030. Saudi officials expect Aramco to be valued at $2 trillion. That's the size of
Apple, Facebook and Microsoft combined. Selling just 5 percent could raise $100 billion. Four times the value of Alibaba's IPO. Yet details are few
and far between. Where will it list internationally? How much of the company will it list? And the crucial question, when will it list? It may
be thin on details, but one thing is clear. This IPO will have a multibillion dollar ripple effect throughout global markets. Anna Stuart,
[16:20:00] QUEST: Now, with a prize that big, the competition to host the IPO is fierce. New York and London are the top contenders, and both cities
are lobbying hard for the listing. So, CNN's Clare Sebastian in New York, and Anna Stuart in London explain from their cities' point of view.
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNNMONEY CORRESPONDENT: Well the New York Stock Exchange has stayed pretty quiet about any attempts to overtly call it Saudi Aramco.
The U.S. president has done the opposite. In early November, Donald Trump personally lobbied to bring the listing to New York, tweeting that it would
be, quote, important for the U.S. And it's true, this would not only serve Trump politically in his attempts to improve relations with Saudi Arabia.
This would be a huge piece of business for the stock exchange when it comes to trading and listing fees. And there's plenty in it for Saudi Aramco,
too. The big board is the biggest pool of investor capital in the world, by far. It has prestige, it has credibility and perhaps more importantly
than that, it has experience when it comes to running these big IPOs.
Alibaba's $25 billion listing, the world's biggest so far, happened rate here in 2014. But in return for all of that, Saudi Aramco would have to
comply with strict financial regulations in the U.S. and many believe that is the major hurdle sounding between them and the chance to ring that
STUART: Now, you might that U.K. would be left out in the cold for this IPO. Brexit negotiations are ongoing. And the whole future of financial
services here is really uncertain. But think again. Because the U.K. is on the offensive. British Prime Minister Teresa May and the London Stock
Exchange CEO, both went Riyadh early this year to give lobbying efforts that personal touch.
Meanwhile, the U.K.'s financial regulator, says it would relax rules for new listings. It would allow Saudi Aramco to list 5 percent of shares when
the current minimum is 25 percent for state-owned firms. Plus, Aramco could get a special premium listing. Now, this is, again, something that's
not normally available for a state-owned company. Separately, the U.K. has agreed to loan Saudi Aramco $2 billion, and actually, the U.K.
government has come under a lot of fire for pandering too much to Saudi Arabia. But perhaps you can see why. This is the biggest IPO ever. It
would cement London's future as a financial capital, and it would bring in hundreds of millions of dollars for investment bankers, lawyers and other
people working in the financial services. So, with Brexit around the corner, perhaps London needs this now more than ever.
QUEST: John Defterios is with me following the contest. The biggest stumbling block, both perhaps for New York and London is this issue of
accounting. Because both have very hefty reporting restrictions.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNNMONEY EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: Yes. What we're talking about here, Richard, is floating the group of Saudi Aramco. I know
Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince here, wanted to have great aspirations to have an IPO four times the size of Alibaba. But after he
announced it, there's the issue not just of accounting standards but of royalties. Royalties with the Royal family. Because there's money that
comes off the top of overall revenue. So how would you declare those from the group level? I think that's the biggest difficulty here.
QUEST: Let's clear this. This is money that comes from the top line and goes who knows where.
DEFTERIOS: In fact, we've never seen that.
DEFTERIOS: We do know, that's the case in the region overall. We have an example in Abu Dhabi, not that it's going to go out, but it's going to be
listing subsidiaries. Were they wouldn't have to require the top line. This is very different for Saudi Aramco. And I think they wanted to say,
look, this gives us credibility, let's go to New York, and London. You'd have U.S. accounting standards. Gap international standards. But you
can't have whatever the percentage is, just go off the top line and not declare it.
QUEST: So, what about, for example, a listing in China, or another exchange, that might be more accommodating?
DEFTERIOS: I wouldn't suggest on an exchange. What you could see here is a private placement, if you will. The Asian big oil importers are their
number one customer. So, China, South Korea, Japan. They wanted to have a slice of the action. And China and Japan, they could just do 5 percent
private placement within an economy that has $3 trillion worth of reserves.
QUEST: But then you don't get bragging rights of being on the market.
QUEST: That's the trick right now. By the way, Amin Nasser, the CEO of Aramco, who I spoke to at the investment summit here says, look, you know
the way we operate, John. We're ready to go. This, believe it or not, is above my pay trade. I'm the CEO. This goes to the minister of energy and
obviously the Crown Prince.
QUEST: Right to the top. Stay with me, please. We need your analysis on another issue here. Because Saudi Arabia's tourism commissioner is
admitting his country failed to stem an exodus of Saudis vacationing overseas. Prince Salman Assad, is one of Saudi's king's son. He'll be
talking about it with me in just a second. He's a former astronaut, and he tells me he's prepared to make big changes to attract tourists from home
PRINCE SULTAN BIN SALMAN AL SAUD, CHAIR, SAUDI COMMISSION FOR TOURISM AND NATIONAL HERITAGE: I said from the very beginning that Saudi tourists,
Saudis from Saudi Arabia, seeking tourists inside the country are the biggest target for us. And we were late. We were late. Decisions were
late. Funding was late. And other countries, especially in the Gulf, have risen to the challenge and started attracting more people from Saudi
Arabia. That's all in the record.
[16:25:00] I just published a book which will be hopefully in English soon, regarding this whole story. Of course, the targets are people who want to
come and literally experience this country. And really the grandness of this country. This is the biggest hidden thing that the world needs to
learn about. Especially that we are in center of happenings today.
QUEST: Are you going to make it easier for people to come here? And that means the visa restrictions, the ease of access, the flight lift, the
hotels. All of which are here. But are you going to make it easier for people?
BIN SALMAN AL SAUD: We're ready for that.
QUEST: Are you.
BIN SALMAN AL SAUD: Of course, 100 percent. I confirm what you said. Being a pilot, I use these words to confirm your discussion. We have had
very fantastic fluid flow of tourists for years, some time ago. No problems whatsoever. Excellent people that wanted to come and enjoy this
country. We still have now amazing growth and tourism. Especially from ex-pats of this country. Going to places that they come to us and they
say, my God, I've never seen it like this in my life.
Now we have two things happening. We have the transit system that is now being built, and it is practically ready. Saudi Arabia has one of the best
infrastructures for services for hotels, for transportation. The biggest network of airports in any of the countries around this region. And
they're growing. And we have also the tourist visa. Which was stopped a while ago. We reorganized it, and now it's going to be I think hopefully
in 2018 launched, totally fluid and totally organized. We were also in the forefront of trying to get some of the tourist destinations ready.
QUEST: Will the tourist visa be an online application, an e-visa system, that's not going to require an appointment at an Embassy and waiting in a
BIN SALMAN AL SAUD: Of course, not. Agree, it's not us, not our organization. We are the top IT organization. I'll say one of the top. I
don't want to make people angry with a very small men and women staffing in the country. We do believe, not just in social media. We're the biggest.
We're the biggest in social media today. We do believe in systematic change in terms of processing. We actually process 90 percent of our
business in our organization -- at least 90 percent, through technology. So that's -- Saudi Arabia actually is moving toward being one of the star
countries in terms of technology worldwide. It's not a miracle to do these things. People have done them. But now in Saudi Arabia, we have the
manpower and the women power.
DEFTERIOS: So, they had the manpower and the --
QUEST: Women power.
DEFTERIOS: I like that comment. By the way, he's the eldest brother of the Crown Prince, been involved in tourism since they launch that sector in
2000. They have 18 million visitors, by the way, which is not bad. That's more than Egypt. But they want to grow really quickly, Richard, to 25
million by 2020. They're investing $50 billion in the western region, Jedda and north Mecca and Medina, which is religious areas.
QUEST: But what are they doing in terms of entertainment and -- I mean, amusement parks. What are people coming here for besides pilgrimage.
DEFTERIOS: I used to say this place was changing year by year. Now it's changing month by month. So, entertainment parts are coming. Concerts are
already taking place. It's just starting to open up. I mean, it's quite radical to think we had dinner the other night -- probably didn't notice
the difference, but they had a jazz band playing who played the national anthem. Something you would never dream of before, and they're just
warming up. Major investors will be coming into the sector for that specifically. As it opens up. Thanks.
QUEST: Thank you. Are you sure you wore that tie last night?
DEFTERIOS: You're jealous of the tie. That was two nights ago I spread it out a little bit. I wanted to match.
QUEST: Earlier this week, we're going to be talking after the break, the very serious issue about the Freedom Project.
Now, you will have watched, and you will have seen, and you will have read our reporting on the modern-day slave auctions that took place in Libya.
Now Libyan authorities have launched a formal investigation. I'll be speaking to the CNN correspondent who led the exposure.
And we'll hear Saudi Arabia's point of view on human rights abuses.
[16:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Hello. I'm Richard Quest. There's more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in just a moment. When Libya's government launches a slavery investigation
after a CNN report into a devastating slave auction.
And here in Saudi Arabia, it's hard to spend Saturday night at the movies, literally. I'll speak to his chief executive hoping to change all of that.
As we continue, you are watching CNN, and on this network, the facts always come first.
The Zimbabwean President, Robert Mugabe appears determined to hang on to whatever political power he has left. He's made his first public
appearance since an army take over. Emerging from house arrest to attend a university graduation. The general is pulling the strings, trying to force
Mugabe to step down. The deal in the works apparently has stalled.
Clashes broke out In Kenya on Friday, when supporters turned out to greet the opposition leader, Raila Odinga. The police fired tear gas and his
convoy and the crowd, police say five people were killed. The country is deeply divided over this year's disputed presidential election.
The White House says there is a difference between accusations of sexual misconduct against Donald Trump and those against Democratic Senator Al
Franken. The press secretary, Sarah Sanders, says Franken has admitted his wrongdoing, and President Trump has not. Mr. Trump attacked Franken on
Twitter, after a woman accused the Senator of lewd contact.
The White House has released the names of five additional potential nominees for the U.S. Supreme Court. Now, there are no vacancies currently
on the court. President Trump's full list of potential nominees is now 25 names long. The Senate confirmed the president's first choice, Neil
Gorsuch, earlier this year.
On QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we're pretty clear. We cover all aspects of the business world. If somebody is making money at it, we'll feel it is our
duty to cover it. Now that includes the good, the bad, the truly evil and despicable. CNN's worked to expose one of the most evil businesses of all-
times, modern-day slavery. And now Libyan authorities say they are opening a formal investigation based on CNN's shocking evidence of modern-day
slavery auctions in Libya.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Big strong boys for farm work he says. 700. 700. 800. The numbers roll in. These men are
sold for 1200 Libyan pounds. $400.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[16:35:00] QUEST: Nima Elbagir led investigation along with CNN's Raja Razek and Alex Platte. She joins me now from London. When I saw the
reporting, the superb reporting. When you saw basically a human auction taking place, the level of disgust you must have felt. You talk about.
But were powerless to stop.
ELBAGIR: Yes, we did try and get access. And even though in the moment that felt like perhaps we were pushing the boundaries of what necessarily
safe in that situation. It wasn't possible, as much as we tried to get access. They were very clear that we weren't to speak to these men. So,
it is, of course -- I mean, it's extraordinary news to hear that our reporting has had some impacts. And the Libyan authorities say that the
priorities for them are to first and foremost find those people. That not only that we showed in that auction, but also others that have been sold.
In addition, of course, to bring perpetrators of this to justice. But as you put it so well, Richard, this is about big business. This is about
people making a lot of money. And we understand from the International Organization of Migration that the smugglers, the traffickers, the criminal
gangs are stronger than ever in Libya. So, although the will is there, we're going to have to wait and see what that means.
QUEST: The money -- $100 billion a year, by one estimate. If you take, for example, the numbers involved, the poor jurisdictions, the weak legal
enforcement. Can we have any confidence in a Libyan investigation where the country isn't under the control of any one party or authority?
ELBAGIR: I mean, that is, of course, the question. But the hope is that given the outpouring that we have seen, of reaction from around the world,
it really has been extraordinary. But this isn't just about the Libyan government beginning to move. It is also about the international community
seeing what it needs to do to shore up the Libyan government. To support the Libyan government. And you saw those detention centers there, Richard.
The international community hasn't stepped up effectively.
QUEST: Right. So, Nima, somebody is buying these humans, these people. Somebody is putting them to work to make a product that is going to go into
the potentially international chain, retail chain, or supply chain. Unless we're talking about sex trafficking, which is somewhat different. And even
that is related. Therefore, it surely behooves every one of us to be questioning where we bought something. Who's doing what with the money.
What is happening in our name.
ELBAGIR: Absolutely. There is so much consumer responsibility. And there is also responsibility that has to be placed on the people who make these
legislations and who represents us. The International Criminal Court is trying to expand its portfolio to persecute in Libya the criminal networks.
But it hasn't received the support. So really, the hope is that people are going to continue to share this story. They're going to continue to talk
about this story, and that's going to continue to put pressure on the people, not just in political offices, but also as you so rightly point
out, inside big business, Richard.
QUEST: And Nima, you and I hopefully in the future will look much more into this question of the correct role of corporations, chief executives,
board of directors and how their money is spent. Thank you. Excellent reporting. Thank you for joining us tonight.
Let's turn our attention to this question of human trafficking. There will be many of you saying, well hang on a second, Saudi Arabia doesn't exactly
have a stellar record, at least historically, when it comes to this issue. Well, perhaps proving the nature of change in this country, now people are
prepared to talk quite openly about what's been done. A member of Saudi Arabia's human rights commission joined me earlier to tell me that all
classes of people need access to justice when it comes to modern-day slavery. And Saudi Arabia is on the U.S. State Department's watch list of
countries currently not meeting the minimum standards.
AMAL FATANI, BOARD MEMBER, COUNCIL OF SAUDI HUMAN RIGHTS COMMISSION: Saudi Arabia has worked very hard to make sure that it follows human rights
regulations around the globe. Signed treaties. It attends the meetings. I've attended meetings in Geneva and New York. One of the things we're
very careful of -- there's a lot of people coming in from south of Africa.
There's people coming in from different areas, we are trying to fight trafficking. Those people that are dying on boats. So, there's
regulations that we have signed. There's regulations we have inside the country. We are pushing very hard for them.
QUEST: you could have as many regulations as you like.
QUEST: But if they're not actually either enforced --
QUEST: Or believed -- if there is a population or a member of the population that believes it's OK to treat, mistreat domestic staff, to
abuse workers here.
FATANI: True. That is why there is a regulation but also there is implementation. So, you have the -- the country has the regulation. Then
they put into force, if there is even one complaint, there is a whole judicial system they can go to and get their rights, whether they are
labor, they are housemates, foreigners, ex pats. And even Saudis.
[16:40:00] QUEST: Do you accept that in such a situation, as these countries like Saudi and we can mention others, there is the potential for
abuse, because there is an important labor force of such a large number in often very, very trying circumstances? Countries. List.
FATANI: Yes. What you really need to do is make sure that you're vigilant. The law is there, and that you're pushing for the rights. These
people know where to go. They have certain venues they can go to. They can be positive about what they have. He has evidence of it, they'll get
(END OF VIDEOTAPE) QUEST: A frank discussion in Saudi. Perhaps one of the biggest changes that's taken place in this country. Still ahead, Saudi women will soon be
allowed to drive. Citizens, however, still cannot go to the cinema. And that too may be about to change.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) QUEST: Welcome back. You may find it somewhat extraordinary in a country with such vast wealth and reserves. Saudi Arabia is in the midst of a
youth unemployment crisis. There are so many young people needing jobs. Fixing the problem is a top priority for the new Saudi leadership.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) QUEST: Saudi Arabia is a country blessed with both an abundance of oil and a young work force. Their economic future, however, is in doubt, as their
country's jobs' prospects dim. 70 percent of the population is under 30. And a third of them can't find work. For decades, Saudi leaders relied on
their country's vast energy reserves to fuel growth. Oil, however, is creating nowhere near the number of jobs the economy needs right now. And
youth unemployment has risen to more than 30 percent.
At the same time, as the youth population is surging. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, a 32-year-old millennial himself, has devised a way
forward. His much-touted road map is called vision 2030. It's an attempt to wean the kingdom away from energy, and create new opportunities for tech
startups and growth industries. The heir to the Saudi throne meets outside cash to make his vision work.
Last month, he courted global investors at a lavish forum in Riyadh. Loosening Saudis' strict social rules could help get the money flowing.
Saudi women will finally be given the right to drive next year. Bin Salman knows there's an urgent need to modernize for the sake of future
generations. Now, the crown prince must deliver.
QUEST: So much change.
[16:45:00] And while Saudi society is changing fast, there's still some pretty basic things that citizens can't do that you and I might enjoy.
Movie theatres have been banned here since the 1980s. Shut down. Under pressure from religious leaders. If the ban is lifted, theater chain, for
example, AMC, the largest in the world, could stand to profit. Its chief executive told me the culture change here is almost beyond belief.
ADAM ARON, CEO, AMC ENTERTAINMENT: Back in the United States right now, we have no conception of how quickly the society of Saudi Arabia is changing.
Under the leadership of the new crown prince, his royal highness, Salman, they are liberalizing this country. They are changing this country. I've
been told that there have been more change in the last six months than they have seen in the last 20 years.
QUEST: That in and of itself to some will be impressive. To others be will a warning that quickly. Which do you see?
ARON: Well, I think there's always a risk when change happens. People need to accommodate change. That's not so easy. We see in every country
that sometimes people resist change. But there's something unusual in Saudi Arabia. Fully half of their population now is under 25 years of age.
The crown prince himself is 32. I think they are thirsting for country. I think they're very excited about it.
QUEST: So, what will you be offering? Or what -- I mean, you know, I realize, you've got your plans. But what sort of vision have you got for
what you could do here?
ARON: Well, this is our first official trip to Saudi Arabia. We've been in contact with the government previously. AMC is the largest movie
theater chain in the world. With more than 1,000 theaters in the U.S. and Europe. We have a close eye on Saudi Arabia. Movie theaters were actually
banned in this country more than 35 years ago, but there is a lot of talk that that ban is going to be lifted. And that the government is quite
eager to open cinemas here --
QUEST: But you see, you've just made the great point. You're going from a ban to actually having something here. It's not as if there's a few here
ARON: Well, from our standpoint, that's good news. People. They like movies. If you look at the movie-goers in Dubai and Bahrain, there are a
lot of Saudis going to theaters there. What we see is there is potentially an enormous market here for movie-going, domestically, by Saudi citizens
here in Saudi Arabia.
QUEST: Movies going for your domestic citizens. Get ready for your dream beach vacation, perhaps. Saudi Arabia's vying to be the world's next top
tourist destination how realistic is that?
[16:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Welcome back to QUEST MEANS BUSINESS live tonight from Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia, which wants to be the world's next vacation hot spot. The
oil-rich country is building resorts and hotels along the coastline of the Red Sea. Now Emaar hospitality group is one of the companies involved
currently working on a luxury resort in Saudi Arabia as part of its Address brand, famously a course from Dubai. The chief executive told me it's the
scale of Saudi plans that's so interesting and amazing.
OLIVIER HAMISCH, CEO, EMAAR HOSPITALITY GROUP: There's a vision, vision 2030 which has been developed. And which includes many things. Among
others, tourism, which is, of course, very interesting to us. A lot of major projects, like the city coming up, the Red Sea project, which is
going to be phenomenal to development. It is really interesting to see how Saudi Arabia is developing and how the country is opening up to its
tourism. Because the potential is enormous. The sheer size of Saudi Arabia is already quite interesting.
QUEST: So, for a company like Emaar, particularly the hospitality, which is what you're running, where do you see your ability to take advantage of
HAMISCH: Well, first of all, the size of the cities is quite impressive, right? So, we're looking at all the primary cities, Jedda, Riyadh, but
also the secondary cities. We now have two projects in development. One very big hotel in Mecca with 1,500 rooms. And another one in Jedda, with
200. Which we are, by the way, funding ourselves.
QUEST: The concept of tourism in Saudi. Now, is it -- do you see it mainly as a version of religious tourism, or pilgrimage tourism, if you
HAMISCH: That's what it was until now.
QUEST: But do you see that expanding from that?
HAMISCH: Partly, yes. But there is also the leisure tourism segment coming up. Saudi Arabia now allowing transit visa, which was not possible
until now. 72 hours without big formalities. You can stay in the country for three days. For leisure purposes. It was not possible until now. So,
we see a development, I think the religious tourism is still going to be there, it's going to be a very big part of Saudi tourism. But the leisure
part is going to grow phenomenally. And we will see that very soon I think.
QUEST: Well, with increased tourism comes growth in retail and luxury goods. Joining me, the founder of the perfume concept, L'Odore. What do
you mean by perfume concept?
SULTAN ALSHEAIBI, FOUNDER L'ODORE: Well, Richard, we have created an umbrella to host a collection of artistic perfumes. And this is a new
segment in perfumery.
QUEST: Is it the sort of thing that can only thrive and survive in a wealthy environment like Arabia?
ALSHEAIBI: Well, that's one of the reasons why it's surviving. But also, it needs a place where people appreciate art. And that's what we have here
in Saudi Arabia. Because we are introducing perfume as a form of art. Where perfumers are artists, expressing their ideas and stories by blending
QUEST: What sort of art? I mean, you know, when it comes to art -- give a quick spray after an after shave, and I get on with it.
ALSHEAIBI: That's what the -- you mean by a mass product. But we're talking about more of an artistic product, where you know exactly who
blended it. And what ingredients are used there. And what is the story behind it.
QUEST: There is one question that begs to be asked.
ALSHEAIBI: Tell me.
QUEST: How much is this stuff?
ALSHEAIBI: Not expensive. Not expensive actually. It is more of the experience.
QUEST: But when you say not expensive what do you mean?
ALSHEAIBI: We start --
QUEST: 300, 500, 1,000?
ALSHEAIBI: No, we start from $120.
ALSHEAIBI: Up to 3 to $4,000.
QUEST: 3 to $4,000.
ALSHEAIBI: Yes, for a perfume.
QUEST: For a perfume. Perfume.
ALSHEAIBI: For a bottle of perfume.
QUEST: A big bottle a perfume?
ALSHEAIBI: A 500 ml bottle of perfume. No 500 is the big one.
QUEST: Half a liter. You could splash around in it.
ALSHEAIBI: You could use it for a long time, but then you will be possessing a piece of art, a memory.
QUEST: What do you mean by a piece of art? A piece of art is on the wall of a hotel room. Piece of art is a nice picture that I take. A piece of
art doesn't think of as a smell.
ALSHEAIBI: Well, that's what we are trying to change. We're trying to create an experience whereby we host clients, we ask them questions about
their lifestyle. Their preferences in terms of ingredients. And based on that, we make suggestions.
[16:55:00] And we select perfumes that can suit their personalities. For example, one of the perfumes that we have is a story of a perfumer who
traveled to Morocco. And lived a beautiful experience there. In this experience was translated into ingredients.
QUEST: Men and women? Aftershave, a bit of cologne?
ALSHEAIBI: We always say if you like it, then it's made for you.
QUEST: I like that idea. If you like it, it's made for you, sir. And good to see you. Many thanks, indeed.
ALSHEAIBI: Thank you, Richard.
We will have a Profitable Moment, if you like it, it was made for you.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
QUEST: Tonight's Profitable Moment. Throughout that last guest, I kept thinking, hang on, we're talking about perfume. Where is the perfume? And
then somebody remembered they had brought it with them.
This is what we were talking about. Ooh, my goodness. Air of the Moroccan Desert. Retails for about 150 or so euros and actually is a rather nice
spicy, woody, pleasant thing to do. Now, why am I spraying myself with this?
Because it really does just show what I think has been -- I discovered since I've been here. And that is the potential of change that's taking
place in this country. But it's change that has to be managed. And everyone agrees, if you go too far too fast, the backlash could put this
country back a good 20 or 30 years.
And so, while it's not all roses in the garden or perfume around the neck, the change that is taking place does appear to be solids and does appear to
be lasting. Perhaps in the longer time, a bit like this perfume, that's is what the most important thing is. It will have a very pleasant smell when
it's all over.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight. I'm Richard Quest, live in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I hope it's
profitable, I'll see you in Abu Dhabi.