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Al Franken Scandal; Roy Moore Allegations; Past Trump Accusations; Moore's Wife on Stepping Down; Republican Party Leaders on Moore; Moore Ignores Calls to Step Down. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 17, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We're following multiple stories right now, including selective silence. President Trump blasting Senator Al Franken on the Democrat's sexual harassment scandal, but still silent, silent, on the multiple sexual accusations against Republican Senate candidate Roy Moore.

Candidate Roy Moore, now the president's attack bringing his past into the spotlight.

Plus, Al Franken's political fate up in the air as top Democrats say expulsion is possible. Now, several other Democrats saying they made a mistake when it comes to Bill Clinton.

And missing documents. Investigators say Jared Kushner hasn't turned over all of his e-mails, specifically relating to WikiLeaks. And now, the special counsel, Robert Mueller, dropping a subpoena on the Trump campaign.

But we begin with the tale of two responses. President Trump goes after Senator Al Franken over accusations of sexual harassment. But on the allegations that Alabama Senate candidate, Roy Moore, pursued teenage girls while he was in his 30s, silence.

The president blasted Franken over this photo that shows him appearing to grope Leeann Tweeden while she slept. The two were flying back from a USO trip from the Middle East back in 2006.

The president tweeted this. The Al Frankenstein, Frankenstein misspelled, by the way, picture is really bad, speaks a thousand words. Where do his hands go in pictures two, three, four, five and six while she sleeps?

Our White House Correspondent Sara Murray is joining us now. Sara, what's behind the selective silence by the president?

SARA MURRAY, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, it is a little bit bizarre that the president has not weighed in on Roy Moore. He certainly dodged questions on this issue.

Although the White House has made clear the president feels like Alabama voters need to make a decision on Moore. And that it's not up president, for instance, to suggest he step aside.

But then, but we saw this president's tweet on Al Franken. And it inserts the president in a very partisan way on an issue that has really crossed to the partisan divide here in Washington on Capitol Hill. And, of course, crossed multiple industries throughout the United States.

So, it is a little bit bizarre to see the president out here only commenting on allegations against a Democrat, while staying silent on a Republican who's in the middle of a hotly-contested Senate race.

BLITZER: Sara, is there any concern that the president is drawing renewed tension to pass the accusations of sexual misconduct against him?

MURRAY: This was one of the concerns, initially, when he was not weighing in on Roy Moore. Some sources had told us that the president didn't want to draw attention to his own allegations of sexual misconduct against him.

Remember, during the campaign, more than a dozen women accused the president of some kind of inappropriate sexual behavior. And the president, essentially, came out and called them liars.

So, it certainly put the spotlight back on that again today. You know, the president drew attention to this photograph with Al Franken.

And that drew a lot of comparisons and a lot of questions about, you know, if we should believe this photograph. Why shouldn't we believe that old "Access Hollywood" tape, where the president is suggesting he can grab women because he's famous.

Obviously, he was not the president at the time. He got elected in spite of that. But it certainly is putting the limelight back on those allegations -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right. Sara is over at the White House. We'll get back to you. Sara Murray, thanks very much.

Let's discuss all of this and more with our panel. We have our CNN Legal Analyst, former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates is with us, our CNN Political Commentators Rick Santorum and Ana Navarro are here. And our CNN Political Analyst David Gregory.

So, what do you make of the president? He's going after Senator Al Franken, staying silent when it comes to the Republican Senate candidate in Alabama, Roy Moore. The charges against the president, a serious charge of hypocrisy.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, it's hypocrisy all around. I don't think President Trump is easily shamed.

I don't think he particularly cares about the fact that he's inviting renewed attention to the allegations against him. He's happy to go against the Democratic senator for hypocrisy here. And I think on Roy Moore, I mean he's -- for all the reasons we've

talked about in the past few days, there's a lot of political sensitivity about how Republicans are putting pressure on Moore, knowing that the president could do a lot to affect the outcome here.

And he, frankly, thinks it's too politically dicey to do it or else he'd do it. He doesn't have a lot of restraint otherwise, aside from the fact that he's made a decision here.

BLITZER: What do you think, Rick?

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think it was a mistake for him to weigh into this. It points attention to something that the president shouldn't want pointed attention to which is his own accusations.

[13:05:03] So, it was an unwise decision by the president. And if he -- it does leave open that now he's, sort of, almost in a position where he has to comment on the Roy Moore situation.

And it seems pretty clear, in Alabama, that the people of Alabama, at least the Republican Party of Alabama, is circling the wagons. They're not going to -- they're not going to abandon him. They're going to -- they're going to see this through.

And so, now, the president's -- and somewhat -- could be put in position to be at odds with them.

BLITZER: There were at least a dozen women who, you know, during the campaign, came forward and made sexual accusations against the president. One woman, Jessica Lee, she spoke to Anderson Cooper in October of last year. And she said that Donald Trump groped her, during a flight back in the 1980s.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSICA LEE: Then, after a bit, that's when his hands started going -- I was wearing a skirt. And his hand started going towards my knee and up my skirt. And that's when I said, I don't need this. And I got up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president, as you remember, said all of those women, about a dozen or so, were lying.

ANA NAVARRO, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And you know something? I actually think the election of Donald Trump has a lot to do with this empowerment of women and women speaking out that we are seeing in the last year.

You know, I -- women could have either seen his election as a defeat for women, for women who spoke out about sexual harassment. Instead, I think they saw it as a call to action. And you are seeing

a strength in numbers that is turning this into a watershed moment and changing the culture across every industry.

Today, I saw that the chair of the republic -- of the Democratic Party of Florida was accused this morning of inappropriate behavior and had resigned by mid-morning -- by late morning.

And I think that it's very powerful, when people in your own party call you out. It's what the Democrats did in Florida today, all the ones running for governor. And the guy was gone in a matter of hours.

What you're seeing with Donald Trump is three things, hypocrisy, politics and stupidity.

It is hypocritical of him to call out Al Franken when he's not calling out Roy Moore. It is politics what he's playing, because he doesn't want to go against his base in Alabama. And it is stupid because, as Rick says, the only thing it does is highlight his own baggage on this issue.

BLITZER: He not only said, Laura, that all these women who were coming out last year during the campaign were lying. But he also said he was going to file lawsuits against them.

Listen to this. This is what he said last October.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every woman who lied when they came forward to hurt my campaign, total fabrication. The events never happened. Never. All of these liars will be sued after the election is over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. So, no lawsuits, yet, have been filed. And it's doubtful any will be filed.

LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: In fact, that's correct. And a lot of that is because he's opened himself up to defamation actions against him for calling these women liars and saying that your reputation should be undermined by my commentary.

But you know what's interesting, his comments about that, seem to have now become a guidebook for other people who are accused. Notice that Roy Moore has not attacked the specific credibility of the victim. They have gone after the alleged.

And they have gone after the attorney, Gloria Allred, her connections to Roe V. Wade. They talked about the face -- I mean, the yearbook may not be genuine or not.

And so, they are aware of the idea of not actually coming into fruition, this threat about a lawsuit. And also, what happens when you attack the credibility of the alleged victim means that you renew the statute of limitations in civil lawsuits and say, well, the criminal thing is expired now.

But now, I invite some scrutiny in a different respect, in terms of maybe defamation or legal liability.

BLITZER: Do you think he's going to file any lawsuits? It's been more than a year.

SANTORUM: Well, I don't think the president of the United States is going to file a lawsuit. I mean, he won the election. That issue has been resolved. The American public came down in his favor. I don't think he needs a court of law to do the same.

Look, this is a -- this is a -- as Ana was saying, I mean, this is a tumultuous time. You're seeing all sorts of recriminations now in Washington, D.C. You're seeing not just Hollywood.

I mean, I -- I mean, I was interviewed by TMZ the other day. I mean, my goodness, here in Washington, I wonder what they're looking into.

So, this is a -- this is a real big problem. But I look at it on the other side. I mean, I think this is also an opportunity for men in -- for men, in particular, to take a step back and think about their behavior. Period.

And it only takes a few of your colleagues and your friends losing positions and being outed, if you will, to begin to change behavior.

And maybe it's -- maybe, in the end, there could be a good message out of this that we're going to -- we're going to start to see a little bit more respect.

GREGORY: But also, the point that we've been talking about, the thing that's so dangerous about this is let's not muck up an already really tough moment by somehow making it some sort of partisan fight.

[13:15:04] You know, hypocrisy is certainly, you know, in the air. There's no question about that.

But to your point which is, you know, people in their own parties need to reckon with this behavior. A lot of what's going on about rethinking, you know, the reaction to Bill Clinton is part of that. You know, Democrats have to reckon with their defensiveness of him and the way they treated women.

SANTORUM: Yes, I mean, I remember during that time, I mean, I was called a prude because somehow this was -- you know, get over it. I mean, it has nothing to do with your job. And so, you know, whether it's true or not doesn't really matter. And, of course, obviously, much of it was very true.

NAVARRO: Well, I think that a lot of her --

(CROSSTALK) BLITZER: On this issue of Bill Clinton, I want to play a clip. Ana, this is clip of Kirstin Gillibrand of New York. She's a Democrat. And was questioned about her attitude as far as Bill Clinton and the Monica Lewinsky scandal, that all of us remember, was concerned.

Listen to this exchange she had with "The New York Times."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it your view that President Clinton should have stepped down at that time, given the allegations?

GILLIBRAND: I -- yes, I think that is the appropriate response. But I think things have changed today. And I think, under those circumstances, there should be a very different reaction.

And I think, in light of this conversation, we should have a very different conversation about President Trump and a very different conversation about allegations against him.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, Ana, go ahead.

NAVARRO: I think that was a very honest, blunt assessment and answer by Kirstin Gillibrand. And I think it's a question that a lot of us are asking ourselves about Bill Clinton. And, you know, did we go too easy on him? Did people go too hard on his accusers? Was there victim shaming when that happened?

Look, a lot of things have changed in the past 20 years. A lot of things have changed in the past 20 months. A lot has changed, regarding sexual harassment, in the past 20 weeks and 20 days.

And it's a very different panorama today than it was then. I actually think this is an opportunity for Bill Clinton to change his legacy. This is going to be part of his obituary. It's going to be part of his legacy. It's going to be part of his history.

And I actually think that this is a time for him to reflect on how that was treated, what he did. He might want to consider doing a public apology, a little reflection. And having, you know, some wise words for people and talking about why what he did was wrong.

And I think he actually think he should take the opportunity right now to apologize to those women because they were dragged through the mud back in the day.

COATES: Well, you know that I agree. Obviously, Monica Lewinsky, in particular, carries a scarlet letter that has not been imprinted on Bill Clinton. However, we talk about the notion of apology. I deal with the court of law, obviously. But the court of public opinion reigns here.

And if you look at the track record so far, those who have shown contrition recently, those who have made apologies, the consequences that have come down upon them, either through threats of being expelled if they do take the Senate, or Al Franken, in terms of the Ethics Committee et cetera, or Louis C.K., and the list goes on and on.

I think that, at the same time, where we're incentivizing people to come forward, we are probably de-incentivizing people to actually be contrite, actually show remorse and have an opinion on it. And when doing so, you realize that the playbook is set now.

You've got Roy Moore denying wholeheartedly what's happened. You've got Donald Trump doing the same thing. In the court of public opinion, are we going to have the chance of credibility?

NAVARRO: Let me tell you something, 93 -- but let me just say this, 93-year-old George Herbert Walker Bush, you know, who is wheelchair- bound and who is frail, is apologizing for having touched women on the rear end.

COATES: No, they should apologize.

NAVARRO: So, you know, if a 93-year-old can do it, I think Bill Clinton can do it because I think he can actually make a difference in this debate right now. It'd be good for him. It would bring some closure to those women. And I think it would --

(CROSSTALK)

COATES: I agree.

SANITORUM: Yes, there's a (INAUDIBLE.)

NAVARRO: (INAUDIBLE), you know, hypocrisy.

COATES: I agree. I had -- my point is not that they should not apologize or show remorse or admit to poor conduct. I think that they should do so.

My thing is that we're talking about, as Rick was saying, it is a joint effort to change society. If the idea is simply to allege, well, that wouldn't work in a court of law. We'd have to allege and the have a solution or have an actual outcome coming into place.

And so, for me, I think society if we're going to have court of public opinion reign supreme, the allegation and the apology, as well as moving beyond that. If it's going to simply be vilification continued, you haven't done much with the apology.

GREGORY: I just think it's important to -- what Rick was saying. This is a moment for men in all kinds of different realms of life, to take stock.

You know, when sexual harassment -- this is not the first time it came up. You know, in the 1980s and the 1990s, it had another moment. And there was a lot of thinking, oh, well, now, you're just going to have to be really careful. It's a guy. And it was all about, kind of, you know, that you'll be unjustly accused. So, I think part of this moment is that women are being believed. And there are -- and so, they're feeling more confident about coming forward and in greater numbers.

And immediately, I mean, Al Franken said, yes, you know, this happened and it was wrong and I apologize. That is not really -- it's not what Roy Moore is doing. And his case is in a different situation because of, you know, these girls who are involved.

[13:15:04] But I think it's partly about truly getting it, instead of just thinking about it of, well, we need a new kind of realm of training. It's really understanding, well, what is this behavior? It's not just how to be careful with --

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, everybody --

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's called good manners. It's called proper, moral behavior. And maybe that could be a good thing that comes out of all of this.

BLITZER: All right, everybody stand by. There's a lot more developing right now.

The -- another scandal, I should say, another party as pressure builds on the Senate candidate in Alabama, Roy Moore. His wife now speaking out in his defense as they declare war on Republicans here in Washington.

Plus, what Senate investigators are now demanding of Jared Kushner after they say he failed to turn over some missing documents. And politics getting rather personal. See what happened -- what happened when two senators broke out in a rather extraordinary shouting match.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do attack --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regular order --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Middle class --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait a minute --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regular order --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And over -- and over and over again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But wait just --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many times do we do this before you learn this --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [13:20:21] BLITZER: The wife of Alabama Senate Candidate Roy Moore is strongly defending her husband against allegations that he sexually assaulted teenage girls. Kayla Moore spoke on the steps of the Alabama State Capitol in the last hour, surrounded by female supporters and others. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLA MOORE, ROY MOORE'S WIFE: I have been married to my husband, Judge Roy Moore, for over 32 years. He was a graduate of West Point. He served our country in Vietnam. And he has always been an officer and a gentlemen.

So let me set the record straight. Even after all the attacks against me, against my family, against the foundation, and now against my husband, he will not step down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Moore's defense comes as a new Fox News poll shows the mounting accusations against her husband are having a serious impact on his chances of actually winning the special election on December 12th. According to the poll, Democrat Doug Jones is now leading Moore by eight points, well outside the margin of error.

Let's talk about the upcoming election, the growing scandal in Alabama. Joining us, the secretary of state of Alabama, John Merrill.

Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us.

JOHN MERRILL, ALABAMA SECRETARY OF STATE: Thank you for having me as your guest, Wolf. I appreciate it.

BLITZER: All right, thank you.

You were on our show last Friday. At that time you wouldn't say whether you thought Moore should step down. You said you wanted more information, which was understandable. Since then at least three more women have come forward. We've also learned from a former mall employee down there in Alabama that Moore was on a so-called mall watch list allegedly for approaching teenage girls. Is this enough information for you now?

MERRILL: Well, Wolf, I think it's very important for your viewers to be reminded that this is a very, very difficult time for the state of Alabama. It's a very difficult time for our people. And, of course, as these allegations continue to mount and they continue to be vetted and investigated, not just by CNN and other major networks, but by the people of Alabama themselves, I believe that that will put them in a much stronger position to make a more well-informed decision when their time comes to vote on December the 12th.

BLITZER: So at this -- so have you decided yet whether you believe he should step down or stay in the race?

MERRILL: Well, I still am not sure whether or not these allegations are true. I know that they are very damning and they're very damaging. And the thing that's the most frustrating and the most disappointing is that these allegations reflect very poorly on Judge Moore and on our state as a whole because Judge Moore is the Republican bearer in the United States Senate race. And because of that, for more than a week now it's put Alabama in a very difficult position and a very damaging position nationwide as far as the spotlight is concerned. That's not something that we're very proud of.

BLITZER: So it sounds as if you might be relieved if he were to step down. Am I drawing the wrong conclusion?

MERRILL: Well, Wolf, I think it's very important to note that when our people have their voice heard and their votes are counted on December the 12th, that I think it will be very clear how they process this information and what they believe should take place and who needs to represent us in Washington, D.C. to fulfill the remaining time in Senator Sessions' unexpired term.

BLITZER: We're just learning, Mr. Secretary, that the Republican Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell's office is getting ready to send the White House a memo on the various options going forward in Alabama, including legal options that would prevent the run-off election from actually taking place or keeping Moore from being seated. What's your reaction when you hear that?

MERRILL: Wolf, I don't think any of those things are even worth discussing because we have shown in the past, we continue to show now, that we know how to manage our elections, we know how to ensure that we have safe and secure elections with integrity and credibility. That's what we do in the office of the secretary of state. That's what Governor Ivey has guaranteed. That's why Governor Ivey is not going to change the election's process in mid-stream. Our state law does not allow for a substitute candidate to be provided on the ballot as a Democrat or a Republican because we're within that 76 day window.

The state party has indicated that they intend to continue to support Judge Moore in a formal way. And I think it's very clear that on December the 12th, the two candidates that are there, Judge Roy Moore, and the lawyer, Doug Jones, will be the candidates for the people of Alabama to consider.

BLITZER: But there's still a possibility there could be a write-in candidate, right?

MERRILL: Most definitely. And, of course, what we're doing is we're trying to educate the voters in the state of Alabama. We'll have information prepared at the polling site on December the 12th. So if they want to write-in a candidate other than the two that are given to them on the ballot, they'll know where to do it, how to do it, and to make sure that their vote is counted if they submit that name.

[13:25:15] BLITZER: You're a Republican, Mr. Secretary --

MERRILL: Yes, sir.

BLITZER: So I want to ask about others in your party, leaders in the Republican Party, what they're saying.

First, this is the House speaker, Paul Ryan. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), HOUSE SPEAKER: He should step aside. I -- number one, these allegations are credible. Number two, he should -- if he cares about the values and the people he claims to care about, then he should step aside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And President Trump's daughter and adviser, Ivanka Trump, she's spoken out as well, saying, and I'll put it up on the screen, there's a special place in hell for people who prey on children. I've yet to see a valid explanation and I have no reason to doubt the victims' accounts.

What's your reaction when you hear those Republicans, the daughter of the president, the House speaker and the Senate majority leader, for that matter, when they offer those opinions?

MERRILL: Wolf, I think those individuals and all individuals are entitled to their own opinions about what's actually occurring. I think one of the things that you need to remember, and that your viewers would know, is that the people of Alabama are not going to support a candidate that has been identified as committing these crimes against women at any time in his life. Crimes that have been proven to be true that this individual would have been convicted of and still support that individual for elected office at any level in our state.

The thing that's so unfortunate about what has occurred in this particular incident is that we don't know whether or not these allegations are true. There doesn't appear to be enough time to have them properly vetted. And so people have to take the information that's introduced to them, try to process it, try to hear the responses that are given, and still determine whether or not they want to support Judge Moore or whether they want to support another candidate, either the Democrat, Doug Jones, or a write-in candidate of their choice.

But the information that continues to come in from the national commentators is not helping to clear up the situation. In many ways it has intended to cloud up the situation. And that's been very difficult because information continues to come up about what people can do to influence our elections or how ballot position can change or that an election can be stalled or that new names could be introduced and none of those things are true. And that's very disturbing.

BLITZER: But it's not just national commentators. This is the speaker of the House, the Senate majority letter. These are the Republican leaders here in Washington who are very, very strongly speaking out.

MERRILL: Yes, sir. And, Wolf, I think, obviously -- yes, sir, their position is try to save the seat and to try to make sure that the Republican majority is preserved. But that is only going to happen if Judge Roy Moore wins the election because there's no way that a substitute can be provided. And he is the standard bearer for the party at this particular time and through December the 12th.

BLITZER: John Merrill is the secretary of state of Alabama.

Mr. Secretary, thanks for joining us.

MERRILL: Wolf, thanks for allowing me to be your guest today.

BLITZER: The president's son in law now under fire again, accused of not turning over documents related to the Russia investigation. How many passes will he get?

We'll be right back.

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