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CONNECT THE WORLD
Mugabe Fired As Leader Of Zimbabwe's Ruling Party; Lebanese PM Not Attending Arab League Meeting; Tensions Escalating Between Saudi Arabia And Iran. Aired 10-11a ET
Aired November 19, 2017 - 10:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
[10:00:21] ROBYN KRIEL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hello and welcome to "CONNECT THE WORLD." I'm Robyn Kriel in Atlanta filling in for Becky
Anderson. We do have some breaking news out of Zimbabwe where a new era is unfolding. President Robert Mugabe has been fired as leader of the ruling
party. That was announced just a short time ago by ZANU-PF officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMERSON MNANGAGWA, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF ZIMBABWE: (INAUDIBLE) was removed from the position of President and (INAUDIBLE) by a unanimous vote.
Then former (INAUDIBLE) Mugabe resigned from the -- from the position of head of state of Zimbabwe and his resignation will not have been
(INAUDIBLE) by midday, 20th of November 2017. The ZANU-PF (INAUDIBLE) was ordered to institute proceedings for the removal of the president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KRIEL: Now, the party is ramping up the pressure on Mr. Mugabe to end his presidency after nearly four decades in power. And as you just heard, they
say he must resign by midday Monday local time or face impeachment. And his wife, Grace Mugabe, has also been booted out of the party.
Meanwhile, former vice president Emmerson Mnangagwa has been appointed the new leader of the party. He was fired by Mugabe two weeks ago, and that's
seen as the spark behind last week's military takeover when the President was placed under house arrest.
Let's get some more perspective on this. Zenzele Ndebele is a local journalist. He joins me now live from Bulawayo, Zimbabwe via Skype.
Zenzele most young Zimbabweans your age have never known any other president. Did you ever think you would watch him be forced out of power?
ZENZELE NDEBELE, ZIMBABWEAN JOURNALIST AND ACTIVIST (via Skype): You know, it's like people are dreaming. I know I stand -- I talk to my friends,
they say did you ever think this was going to happen. No one ever thought this was going to happen. No one at least or even prophet have predicted
that Mugabe would go this time most of the way he's gone what it seemed like he had ZANU-PF under control, everything was well. And this is a
shocker. I mean, it took time. People are like is -- they are dreaming. They just can't believe it.
KRIEL: What is life like for you young Zimbabweans on the ground there? Are there jobs available? What is the economy like? Why are so many, more
than 2 million, at least living outside the country?
NDEBELE: I mean, the -- since 2000, basically when the Zimbabwean economy collapsed following the land invasion, the economy has not been doing well.
Young people cannot find jobs and not just resorted to going to South Africa (INAUDIBLE) I think there are Zimbabweans everywhere in the world
where you can go, probably even in hell, you can find Zimbabweans because they are trying to find any space there's no (INAUDIBLE) Mugabe, they are
going there. So, life has been a misery.
I mean, there are people who are 38, 40 years who have never been employed. There are people who have Masters, PhDs who cannot find a job and they are
just doing linear jobs. And you find that any -- you go to any restaurant in South Africa, you find Zimbabweans who go to any hospital (INAUDIBLE)
they are working there. So, people who have known nothing but misery.
KRIEL: Zenzele, tell me a little bit about the events yesterday. What was it like for you covering that from a journalist perspective? You have been
persecuted by ZANU-PF, by the police for just trying to do your job, just trying to tell the truth in Zimbabwe in a -- in a nation that has been
effectively locked down from freedom of speech. All the broadcasters are government-controlled, but what was it like to sort of breathe a sigh of
relief and know that you're not going to be arrested just for bringing out a camera?
NDEBELE: The first thing that I noticed when I went to the live (INAUDIBLE) group of Zimbabwean men, there are thousands that gather to us,
there were no police officers. So, for the first time, people organized themselves (INAUDIBLE) they did not ask permission from the police. And I
went to the event, there were no police officers. Just a (INAUDIBLE) just in about 30 minutes when we have started then there were -- there were --
all these vehicles as well -- I mean, army trucks and people were so excited.
[10:05:01] KRIEL: I know we saw yesterday, Zenzele, pictures of people hugging army officers, fist pumping with them, taking selfies with them,
all of this, especially in front of state house, Mugabe's residence for so many years where there have been horror stories of people being shot just
for driving down there once that road was closed every single night. This is all very surreal. So, how are young people -- how are young people
seeing this play out?
NDEBELE: You know, the excitement of people in the (INAUDIBLE) they migrate from the citizen to the state house, and so (INAUDIBLE) is about
seven kilometers, and they go there, addressed by soldiers, they came back into town. So, people walked 14 kilometers in excitement. More than that
because (INAUDIBLE) So, for someone to march to the state house, where it's 6:00, we are not allowed, and some people have been beaten up, you know,
it's really surprising.
And actually, they have a thing when -- another surprising one is that the day before yesterday when the (INAUDIBLE) provinces say they're resolved to
fire Robert Mugabe because he's old. And I was like, wow, when did they realize that Mugabe is old and incapacitated? Because we have people
currently who have cases in courts because they were charged for insulting the president by simply saying that Mugabe was old. It was an offense in
Zimbabwe to say Mugabe is old. And finally, plenty of people realized that Mugabe is old and they called for him to step down because he was
So, this is what I'm saying. This is unthinkable. It's like from, you know, one of the movie script, no one could have predicted the way things
are moving, and they are moving so fast. So, we really, you know, seeing Mugabe going and his being not taken out by the opposition by the same
people who have endorsed him, who say that they wanted him president for life and to some people that have turned around and say he's old, he's
incapable, he should go.
KRIEL: Well, yes. Watching events develop there. And Mugabe, President Mugabe is 93 years old. So, thank you so much, Zenzele Ndebele live for us
there in Bulawayo. We do appreciate your reporting through this issue. And this story, of course, is quite complex. So, just a few reminders of
these latest developments. President Robert Mugabe is out as the leader of the ruling ZANU-PF party in Zimbabwe. He was replaced with the vice
president that he fired earlier this month, Emmerson Mnangagwa. Mr. Mugabe now faces a Monday deadline to resign as president or he will face
Well, the big question now, what next for Zimbabwe? Let's get right to David McKenzie who's in the capital, Harare. David, take us through the
events, the incredible events earlier today, and give us a sense of what's to come?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what's to come really is that, Robyn, the pressure is mounting on President Mugabe to step
aside. He's been given that deadline, a clock counting down until noon local tomorrow. If he hasn't done it by then, they say they'll impeach
him. And it was pretty extraordinary to be in that ZANU-PF headquarters as they listed through all of these perjures from the party of Robert Mugabe,
of course, and the first lady and a whole lot of supporter of theirs, to cheers from the audience. Many in that audience, many of the leadership of
the party, of course, were people who had backed Mugabe for many years. So, some would say it's a cynical move, but certainly, it reflects the
brutal politics of -- right now that the party is trying to push out the president because the military leaders have effectively taken control of
the country. Robyn?
KRIEL: David, in terms of -- in terms of what next, Emmerson Mnangagwa presumably will be replacing Mugabe as President of Zimbabwe since he's the
one that's been tipped to from numerous sources we've been speaking to, but also just in terms of ZANU-PF. I have been hearing from Zimbabweans on the
ground and I'm sure you have as well, that they really don't care who's in charge, that they just want economic prosperity and peace. Can you tell me
if that's what you're hearing and what you make of that?
MCKENZIE: I think it's a little more complicated in that people are wanting to have a new dispensation. They want to see the back of Robert
Mugabe, and yes, they want the economy to grow, but also they're realistic. There's a lot of discomfort amongst the opposition, amongst activists about
the fact that this may be Emmerson Mnangagwa coming into power here in Zimbabwe which to many people would be more of the same. But to them, as
you say, first steps first. And Robert Mugabe is still president of this country, at least on paper, until he resigns or is pushed out, that is the
reality on the ground here. So, the question really is, what will he do next? What will the president do next?
[10:10:00] Will he buckle to the power of the party and the people on the streets within the next 24 hours to potentially maintain some dignity or is
he going to fight it towards parliament and see his senior colleagues getting in the parliament building and effectly disowning him in public?
So, that's the very tough choices, of course, that face Robert Mugabe, many Zimbabweans wouldn't feel much sympathy for him at all because he has
presided over a near collapse of the economy and any real feeling of affection for the president because of what he did for Zimbabwe decades ago
has faded considerably with time. Robyn?
KRIEL: Do you believe, David, despite the fact that people are so unhappy with Robert Mugabe and his policies, as you say just a few weeks ago,
everyone was singing his praises and you wouldn't dare speak a nasty word about President Mugabe, do you think that Zimbabwean, particularly the
older ones who regard him as a struggle hero have the stomach to see him impeached and perhaps even humiliated or do you think that that page has
MCKENZIE: I think it's really unfortunately irrelevant what they think in terms of the politics, the brutal politics of this country. Yes, there
might be some elder Zimbabweans who will feel, you know, sad for the situation of Robert Mugabe, but really, this is being fought at the top
echelons of people amongst the people in power, those who control the guns in the country, and those that control the politics of this country.
Which, you know, for a long time, ordinary Zimbabweans have felt they haven't necessarily had the say to affect their lives, particularly with
elections over the years with allegations of rigging and stolen elections. The Zimbabweans, I think, are very jaded with what politicians can offer
But at the same time, we shouldn't take away from that emotion or moment that is happening potentially now. You saw there were tens of thousands of
people on the streets cheering, calling for Robert Mugabe to step down, those are very genuine emotion. Those weren't cynical emotions. And there
really is a sense that this country is going through a watershed moment. A lot of people are telling me that, you know, let them have this moment and
then tomorrow is a day to discuss tomorrow. Robyn?
KRIEL: All right. Thank you so much for your reporting, David McKenzie, live in Harare. So, just who is the man now at the helm of the ruling
ZANU-PF Party. Emmerson Mnangagwa is his name, his nickname is "The Crocodile." Eddie Cross, a former opposition member, Zimbabwe's parliament
told me about him just a short while ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDDIE CROSS, FORMER OPPOSITION MEMBER: Well, he's a barrister, highly educated. He's a brilliant organizer. He's a master strategist. And this
is the man who really rolled over my party in 2013. He was the mastermind behind that operation. He's a very capable minister. When he was Minister
of Finance for an extremely short period of time, the (INAUDIBLE) secretary for the ministry told me that he was the best minister of finance that
they'd ever had. And that is praise indeed from the professionals. So he's a man of great capacity. He's a ruthless man.
This is the man who guided Gukurahundi which is genocide in Ndebele. This is the man behind Robert (INAUDIBLE), where 1.2 million people were
displaced in a matter of days. So he's not a man, he's feared. And when he walks to the parliament, as head of government affairs, parliament goes
quiet. But to be frank, you've got to be a tough cookie to take out -- to ride the tiger. And if you take over in Zimbabwe, you've got a number -- a
lot of problems to deal with. And quite frankly, he probably is the only man in the country who could do that at this point in time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KRIEL: Historic times in Zimbabwe. Still to come here on CONNECT THE WORLD, the Lebanese Prime Minister says he will return to the country soon.
The Arab League calls an emergency meeting to discuss the complex regional crisis, that's coming up next. And the Trump administration threatens to
close the Palestinian Liberation Organization's office in Washington. Find out why after this short break.
[10:17:07] KRIEL: Welcome back. You're watching CNN and this is the CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Robyn Kriel. Now, to a promise from the
Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri, he says that he's going to return to his country after a flurry of speculation over whether he was being held
captive in Saudi Arabia. Hariri met with the French President in Paris on Saturday, that's when he said he will return to Beirut this week for
National celebrations and to finalize his political future.
Hariri resigned while in Saudi Arabia two weeks ago. Lebanon's President has refused to accept it, saying that Hariri was forced to resign by
Riyadh. It's a strange circumstances surrounding Hariri's stepping down deepened divisions between Saudi Arabia and Lebanon, which were already
estranged by Iran's perceived influence over Beirut.
The Arab league has called an emergency meeting today to discuss Iran and its ally, Hezbollah. The Lebanese Foreign Minister is reportedly not
attending, but the country will have a representative present. The meeting was reportedly requested by Saudi Arabia, with support from the UAE,
Bahrain and Kuwait.
Meanwhile, ahead of this meeting, the Israeli Defense Minister has called on Arab leaders to join a coalition against Iran. Well, to understand more
about Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iran and just what ties them all together, we're joined by CNN's Jomana Karadsheh from Oman. Jomana, thank you,
what's the situation like in Lebanon right now and what sort of welcome will Hariri receive if he returns?
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Robyn, as you mentioned there earlier, this has been quite the mystery that has gripped Lebanon and the
region for the past couple of weeks. So, I think everyone is really searching for answers. There's been a lot of speculation, accusations and
questions about the situation surrounding the resignation of Prime Minister Hariri and so everyone is waiting to see what he says when he returns back
As you mentioned some senior Lebanese officials have claimed that he was being held against his will in Saudi Arabia, something that was denied by
the Saudis, denied by Hariri himself. So, there is that hope that if and when he returns in the next few days, that these questions will be
answered. And then, of course, there's the issue of what happens next.
His political future, as you also mentioned, President Michel Aoun saying that he will not accept this resignation until Hariri returns to Lebanon
and submits his resignation there. So, we have to wait and see if he still stands by this resignation and that anti-Hezbollah rhetoric that we heard
during that televised address from Saudi Arabi a couple weeks ago.
So, a lot of questions and people are hoping that they will get the answers, but we'll have to wait and see if that does happen, Robyn.
KRIEL: Jomana, what can you tell us about the Arab League meeting?
[10:20:05] KARADSHEH: Well, this Arab League meeting, as you mentioned, was called for by Saudi Arabia, an emergency meeting of the foreign
ministers, and this came at a time of this increased tension that we have seen between the two rivals, Saudi Arabia and Iran. You've seen the
serious developments over the past couple of weeks with the resignation of Prime Minister Hariri, the increased rhetoric against Hezbollah and then
you had the incident with the Houthi rebels from Yemen, targeting the Saudi capital, something that the Saudis blamed Iran for. So you had all these
events that led the Saudis to call for this emergency meeting.
Now, you know, usually with these Arab league meetings, we don't expect much in terms of action coming out of them, maybe, perhaps, a strong-worded
statement against Hezbollah, against Iran, but that could also be problematic because not everyone is unified within the Arab league when it
comes to their position against Iran, Robyn.
KRIEL: Thank you so much. Jomana Karadsheh live, for us there, on that important issue. The Trump administration meanwhile, has issued a threat
to the Palestinian Liberation Organization get serious about peace talks with Israel or your office in Washington will be shut down. The warning
comes after the U.S. State Department says that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, violated a law back in September when he called on
the International Criminal Court to investigate Israel for war crimes.
Palestinian officials say they will cut all contact with the Trump administration if their office is closed. More on this, let's get over to
CNN's Oren Liebermann, he joins us live from Jerusalem. Oren, thank you, bold move by Washington, how is it being perceived in Israel?
OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu put out a very short statement about it basically saying in
effect, this is an internal U.S. matter, we support the decision and we're willing to work with the U.S. for peace. That's because this decision, if
President Donald Trump follows through on it, and really does close PLO offices in Washington, is essentially a double-edged sword for Netanyahu.
It absolves him of any peace process because there wouldn't be a peace process if essentially Washington cuts off ties with the PLO. But it also
means that Netanyahu will face tremendous domestic political pressure to also cut off ties with the PLO. It is those ties that even if they can be
unpopular on both the Israel and-Palestinian street, they're critical for security and stability in the region.
So it's a delicate position for Netanyahu, but Robyn, allow me to go to the back to the background on this. This is part of a 2015 law which basically
says, if the Palestinians take a move against Israel at the ICC, the International Criminal Court, Washington will boot their offices out of
Washington, D.C. Now, it's not automatic. President Trump has 90 days to decide whether the Palestinians are in negotiations with Israel. And some
see this as a way for Washington to try to pressure the Palestinians to come to the table.
Robyn, there's a problem with that, there's no table to come to right now, as the White House hasn't announced what they're working on in terms of a
peace process, despite the fact that their envoys have been here trying to make progress. But, make no mistake, Robyn, if Washington follows through,
if Trump follows through and closes the PLO offices in Washington, the Palestinians would be furious and could very much cut off ties with the
KRIEL: Oren Liebermann, live for us in Jerusalem, thank you. We are following other top stories on our radar right now. President Trump is
lashing out against his former opponent on Twitter. He called Hillary Clinton the worst and biggest loser of all time after last year's election.
Get on with your life, he says. Clinton responded to the tweet, and at an event on Saturday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, UNITED STATES: You know, I'm going to keep speaking out. Apparently, you know, my former opponent
is obsessed with my speaking out. Apparently, there was another somebody told me tweet today. Honestly, between tweeting and golfing, how does he
get anything done? I don't understand it. So, maybe that's -- maybe that's the whole point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KRIEL: Cries of no to slavery rang out on the streets of Paris as hundreds marched on the Libyan embassy, Saturday, to demand action following CNN's
exclusive reporting shining a light on the buying and selling of African migrants in the country. At one point, tear gas was deployed on
protesters. Here's part of the CNN report from Nima Elbagir that sparks the demonstration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Seven hundred, eight hundred. The numbers roll in. These men are sold for 1200 Libyan pounds, $400.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[10:25:01] KRIEL: Protesters at the Paris rally could barely contain their anger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): It feels like we're going backwards, to four centuries ago. We have to mobilize. We can't let this
kind of thing happen. Do we really need to see such shocking pictures before taking a stand? I don't think so. Now, there needs to be a real
struggle, a real fight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): there is no difference between human beings, black people, white people, Arabs, everybody is the same.
It's the same blood in our veins. So why are we putting Africans in cages in Libya?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): How can it be that in the 21st century, we're selling human beings like merchandise? I cannot get my head
KRIEL: The investigation and the Chairman of the African Union condemned the barbaric practice. Alpha Conde released this statement, on behalf of
the African union, I express my outrage at the despicable trade of migrants currently taking place in Libya, and I strongly condemn this practice of
We're live from CNN Center, this is CONNECT THE WORLD. Still to come, it's the end of an era in Zimbabwe. We'll discuss what Mugabe's ouster will
mean for the people of the embattled nation. And later, an island still plunged into darkness after two months, after Hurricane Maria. Half of
Puerto Rico is still without power.
[10:30:14] KRIEL: Welcome back. You're watching CNN and this is CONNECT THE WORLD with me, Robyn Kriel. Welcome back. We return to our top story
at this hour. The breaking news out of Zimbabwe where President Robert Mugabe has been removed as leader of the ruling party. Now ZANU-PF
announced this just a short while ago their decision to fire Mugabe after nearly four decades in power. They say he must resign on Monday by Monday
or face impeachment. Officials have replaced Mugabe with his former Vice President Emmerson Mnangagwa as the new leader of the ruling party. Let's
bring in CNN's David McKenzie in the capital Harare. And David I believe another meeting has occurred a very -- what looks like cordial meeting
between president -- currently President Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe and these military generals that had this attempted coup. Can you tell us what
you know about that?
MCKENZIE: Well, Robyn we've known that these talks have been going on for several days, according to our sources and then state media publicly
announce them for today. And you had these photographs taken from the meetings, very cordial, as you say, appearing photographs of top military
brass shaking hands, clearly in some kind of discussions with Robert Mugabe, certainly nothing is by accident on state media here in Zimbabwe.
It would appear they're trying to project like they're making progress in these talks. We had from a source towards the end of last week that they
were almost at a deal and then that broke down.
So we don't know yet the status of these talks between the military and President Robert Mugabe, but it appears they're trying to show that they're
making progress. And that comes off the back, of course, of this dramatic event with the ZANU-PF, the ruling party voting to expel Robert Mugabe as
the president of the party and in his other roles as well as the first lady and all of those who were part of the faction that were gaining ground to
replace him. They also made heir apparent Emerson Mnangagwa, the former vice president, that Mugabe sacked just under two weeks ago. So the winds
have changed for Robert Mugabe. The 93-year-old leader appears that he was digging in, but I don't quite see which corner he will turn to next to try
and keep his power. It seems like the pressure is really mounting. Robyn?
KRIEL: David, give us a quick rundown, a timeline of sort. You've been on the ground since the armored personnel carriers from the Zimbabwean defense
forces rolled into Harare. Can you give us a timeline of what happened, how this happened up until yesterday where you were at that historic tune
out of protesters, protesting in favor of the military
MCKENZIE: Well, it's been a really strange and rapidly moving week here in Zimbabwe. Just to put it in perspective, Robert Mugabe has ruled this
country in one form or another, of course, since independence in 1980. He has maintained that grip through all that time. And then in the space of
not decades, but less than a week, he has really seen that power crumble. You had the move from the military to move on to the capital. They then
took over the national broadcast with 4:00 a.m. in the morning address to say that they're trying to get rid of factions within ZANU-PF saying time
and again that this is not a coup, though the facts suggest it is.
You then have the military moving across the streets, you had the president and the first lady in detention, and really a calm, an eerie calm, here in
the capital and across the country. Police nowhere to be seen, the military clearly in charge. This move towards this rapid series of
negotiations back and forth with the president who's been losing his power and the military that is firmly in control, all culminating in that massive
protest on the weekend on Saturday, where thousands heading on to the streets, sanctioned by the military all calling for the president to step
down. So really, all aspects of society it seems publicly pushing for Mugabe to leave the stage. He hasn't done so yet. Robyn.
KRIEL: And of course being followed by journalists from international media outlets who previously never been allowed in the country without a
very lengthy approval process and oftentimes not getting that approval. David, we thank you for your reporting. The removal of Robert Mugabe as
leader of ZANU-PF marks the end of an era for the embattled southern African nation. And for more on this political crisis, if you can call it
that, I'm joined by Muna Ndulo who's the Law Professor at Cornell University and Director of the Institute for African Development; and Peter
Godwin, Author and former Human Rights Lawyer in Zimbabwe and born in Zimbabwe. Peter and Muna, thank you for your time. I want to start with
you, Peter. You wrote the book aptly named I guess The Crocodile Eats the Sun and you also wrote one called Fear, The Fear About Robert Mugabe's
life. Tell us about the man who was -- who's behind the despotic venire of late because he wasn't always this hated. He was in fact once revered.
[10:35:36] PETER GODWIN, FORMER HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER: Was once revered. Although I think the problem is that in the 37 years or whatever that he's
been in power and the years before that when he was already in charge of his party ZANU-PF, he has turned the party -- he has turned the party into
a kind of personality cult and that he had slowly hallowed out not just the state institutions of Zimbabwe but the party institutions itself until this
latest route about two years ago which essentially started when he reached the age where he wasn't completely in control and his wife was increasingly
kind of running him and if you like ventriloquizing him.
I'm not quite as sort of warm and fuzzy about Robert Mugabe the sort of -- this idea that he went from being a liberation war hero to being a great
leader of the country to then becoming a death spot at the end. I think you'll find he's very -- been very consistent in his use of violence for
political reasons. He's been doing it all the way through. Remember that Gukurahundi, the mass civilian massacres, those happened in the early '80s.
This is a man who has always used violence whenever he's needed to politically and so there's something rather apt that he gets pushed out in
the end at the barrel of a gun himself. You live by the sword and die by it.
KRIEL: And at a tough -- Eddie Cross described Emerson Mnangagwa taking over from Mugabe as a tough -- having to be a tough cookie to ride the
tiger. Muna, I would like to turn to you now. This has to have been one of the stranger coups you've seen from your perspective from a
constitutional perspective and legal one as well. What are your thoughts on the coup? It's also been called a non-coup, a polite coup, a transition
aided by soldiers. What are your thoughts on how this all went down?
MUNA NDULO, LAW PROFESSOR, CORNELL UNIVERSITY: I think that what you are seeing is a system that failed to develop a way in which power could be
transferred. This is because Mugabe had controlled all the institutions in the country, the army and the political system and the party itself. And I
think what you are trying to see now is a process where the military doesn't want to be seen to be cutting out the core and are trying to see
how they can work this out through the legal process. And this is why I think we are looking at -- looking at him resigning and (INAUDIBLE)
impeachment process. Because that way you are sort of like keeping the institutions in place.
Now, I think that, you know, there are laws that say that, you know, the army has, you know, heard a coup but I think the key thing is that Mugabe
himself used the army to stay in power. And I think that just as my colleague just mentioned, I think this is a question of the same
instruments that he was using now liberating the people. And it's quite popular process, as you can see from what happened yesterday. And to me,
it brought reminders of the Filipino process where you know, you had crowds, basically coming out supporting the removal of Marcos and I think
that' pretty much the same that's happening in Zimbabwe today.
KRIEL: Or indeed, one of the Arab spring, perhaps in Egypt, where you also saw people fist bumping soldiers, taking selfies with them and, of course,
there's been a lot of skepticism, Peter, from political pundits, saying oh, Zimbabwe, you better watch out because you might head the same way as say
Egypt did when you didn't get the replacement ruler, for example, Mnangagwa that you wanted. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, are Zimbabweans
so desperate for change that they're willing to accept anyone? Is this -- or is Emmerson Mnangagwa the best-suited person for the job right now?
GODWIN: I think your first --
KRIEL: Oh, I'm so sorry. Let me ask Peter first and then Muna, I would like your response as well.
GODWIN: I think your first sentiment is a correct one. Zimbabwe -- I mean, we're all so desperate for change. There been this sort of dead hand
of status on the country for so long now that people are just so delighted to see the back of Mugabe. But there's something really complicated going
on and it really -- it worries me. You have to unpack -- there were three or four things happening at the same time. There's basically a palace coup
within ZANU-PF. It's a changing of guard but it's essentially -- it's a family feud. Mnangagwa is certainly no better than Mugabe. He has just as
much blood on his hands. He's just as corrupt.
And the people in their showing, in their pouring out in Harare are essentially saying to the army, yes, we back you in seeing the end of
Mugabe, but I don't think it should be seen as a pro-Mnangagwa coup or indeed a pro-army coup, you know, for any kind of military or -- which I
don't think is a prospect in Zimbabwe. This whatever we call this, this is not a kind of West African style coup. Although I think it's quite likely
that General Chiwenga, the head of the army may well end up as minister of defense or even as one of the vice presidents.
[10:40:55] KRIEL: Very quickly Peter how did you feel as a Zimbabwean? Did you ever think that 5this day would come?
GODWIN: I did. I thought it would come a lot earlier. I mean, this guy has dominated an entire generation of Zimbabweans and it's such a tragedy,
this country that had really so much potential in Africa, really the highest GDP, the most educated population, just laid waste over these long
period of time over three or four decades and is now almost the most impoverished in Africa. And it's a tragedy and it's not yet over. I mean,
there's ways to go. And this is my worry that we're all so desperate for change that we think we've achieved it. We haven't. The next few days and
weeks and months are going to be really difficult.
KRIEL: Muna, speaking of the next few days, weeks, months, what needs to happen next from a constitution and governance and government perspective?
NDULO: I think that what I emphasize is that going forward. I'm sure that the Zimbabweans realize that of course, this is not the best solution, but
is the only possible solution. In the second sense, in the sense that you have a dictatorship and is there is no way of changing the government as it
is now. But I think what is important is to realize that we have to emphasize on building institutions. And this is the key really to
governance in Africa, that we have to emphasize that we have to build institutions, we have to build accountability and the process of peaceful
transfer of power.
And I think here those are bringing the role of the regular institution. Like a (INAUDIBLE), the E.U. that they are too late in every situation.
The Zimbabweans have been crying out for change for many, many years. The oppression has been going on for a very long time. And yet, sadly, failed
to do anything in the process and examine at the last minute to say when, in fact, the wound has now burst. And I think this is a big lesson, that
we should intervene early, we should promote the development of institutions that ensure that governments are accountable and that there is
peaceful transfer of power. And this I think is also an emphasis on electoral processes being free and fair and genuinely free and fair because
if you recall, the Zimbabwe crisis reached a climax in 2008 when, in fact, I think all observers agreed that Mugabe lost the elections and yet
prevented a peaceful change of government.
KRIEL: We do appreciate both of your time. Peter Godwin, live from New York, and Mula Ndulo, thank you so much. You're watching CONNECT THE
WORLD. Still, to come, CNN looks at how people's day-to-day lives are still affected in Puerto Rico as they struggle through Hurricane Maria's
aftermath, that's coming up.
[10:45:00] KRIEL: When a hurricane slams the place you live, devastating the landscape, it changes everything. Puerto Rico is an island utterly
transformed; it's almost two months since Hurricane Maria hit, power is still out for about half of the island -- and that means no heat, no light,
no refrigeration. CNN's Rafael Romo takes a look at how that affects everyday life as stores and people are forced to ration precious food
RAFAEL ROMO, CNN SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: At first sight, it looks like a well-stocked supermarket doing brisk business. And then, you
notice people only buy enough food for a day or two. So, how has the way in which you buy at the supermarket changed since the hurricane?
ANA JOSEFINA PEREZ, RESIDENT OF SAN JUAN: Well, basically, you have to buy less ingredients, less quantity, because if the power goes out, then you
don't want to lose 75 percent of what you purchased.
ROMO: It's been two months since Puerto Rico was ravaged by Hurricane Maria; about half of the island remains without. Those with no
refrigeration have had to adapt.
PEREZ: Stuff like milk, and meat, and eggs, I buy less quantity and more of stuff that's canned.
ROMO: Supermarkets have also been forced to adapt, just take a look at this frozen goods section in this San Juan supermarket. Shelves are empty
most of the time. So, the problem is not that the suppliers are not being able to deliver, the problem is that people are not buying these things?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are not buying these things.
ROMO: How does this compare to what you had before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are only selling two percent.
ROMO: But there's also a distribution problem. A shortage of canned goods means this store has to ration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Used to have 10 brands, and we only virtually have four brands of corn beef.
ROMO: Ten brands of corn beef before and only two now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four now.
ROMO: They used to carry 20 different kinds of soft drinks. Now, they have three. For Ana Josefina Perez, the hurricane reveals something that
is hard to admit.
PEREZ: Living in a country that actually goes through hurricanes -- not as often as we could, obviously. It's very sad to see that we're not
prepared. I mean, whether it's the government or people in general.
ROMO: A hard lesson she hopes the island has learned as Puerto Rico slowly tries to recover from its worst natural disaster in decades. Rafael Romo,
CNN, San Juan, Puerto Rico.
KRIEL: Well, still to come here to CONNECT THE WORLD, we show you how the Louvre Abu Dhabi not only inspires art aficionados but also young Emirati
students who pursue their passions.
[10:51:04] KRIEL: Welcome back. In a region like the Middle East, politics and public affairs often affect the arts creating struggles for
aspiring creators. But with the new Louvre Abu Dhabi, universities are offering more degrees related to art studies encouraging local Emiratis to
engage in cultural dialog and to pursue the creative fields. Here's Becky Anderson with more.
BECKY ANDERSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hanging art is never easy. Especially, when it's a solid stone, priceless relic from the fourth century. Amna al-
Zaabi has the unnerving task of overseeing this process.
AMNA AL-ZAABI, ASSISTANT CURATOR, LOUVRE ABU DHABI: In your various task, then just pray if anything happens the artwork, it's going to be a
ANDERSON: It's a big job for this 22-year-old, Assistant Curator, at the New Louvre Abu Dhabi. It's also her first job. Amna, he's one of a
growing number of young Emiratis preparing to open what is one of the most iconic museum brands in the world and manage the more than 600 pieces of
priceless art like these. About a half of the Louvre Abu Dhabi staff are from the UAE, and some like Amna a student or recent graduate but that
doesn't mean that they are not ready.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When this museum was announced in 2007, it had a ripple effect on the ecosystem. A lot of educational institutions started
offering programs, museum studies to put more emphasis the arts.
ANDERSON: The Paris-Sorbonne University Abu Dhabi was among the first. This French school opened here in 2006, offering degrees in art history and
museum studies. Amna is one of many Emirati graduates and now on to her masters.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) is one of the only women associated with the abstract art movement.
ANDERSON: Other schools like NYU Abu Dhabi offer hands-on experience in a real museum.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This serves a teaching function much like a medical school would have a teaching hospital.
MANUEL RABATE, FRENCH DIRECTOR, LOUVRE ABU DHABI: You have these people, this new generation of museum professionals.
ANDERSON: Then, there's on-the-job training. The Louvre Abu Dhabi's French director says sharing expertise is one of his goals.
RABATE: We are changing the lives of people visiting, but we are also changing the life of people who will be working with us in the museum.
ANDERSON: The Louvre Abu Dhabi is the result of a 30-year agreement between France and the UAE. After that, all of the curators here will
likely be Emirati.
AL-ZAABI: We're going to encourage a new generation who are more passionate about arts and culture.
ANDERSON: It may not be the easiest first job, but her relief is on the wall and she is ready to for what happens next. Becky Anderson, CNN Abu
KRIEL: That was the last episode in our special behind-the-scenes series on the opening of the louvre Abu Dhabi where we took you along with us
under the dome.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[10:55:05] MOHAMED KHALIFA AL MUBARAK, CHAIRMAN, ABU DHABI TOURISM & CULTURE AUTHORITY: Where you are basically warped into a new world.
ANDERSON: Mubarak passionately shows off some of the Louvre Abu Dhabi's 23 galleries.
AL MUBARAK: This is 6,500 B.C. It has this fantastic feature. She is powerful. She is full of energy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KRIEL: And into the mind of the man who designed the breath-taking structure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEAN NOUVEL, PRITZKER-PRIZE WINNING ARCHITECT: Imagine to have different layers in the dome, and one ray of light to more true. And sometimes, of
course, because of the predictive term, one spot disappears, but at the same time, another appears.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KRIEL: Spectacular ride, indeed, that we hope that you enjoyed as much as we did. Witnessing the opening of this revolutionary museum at the
ushering in of a new cultural landmark for the Middle East, you wouldn't find it anywhere else but right here on CNN'S CONNECT THE WORLD.
And you can always follow the stories, the team is working on throughout the day, by going to our Facebook page, Facebook.com/cnnconnect. There you
can keep up with all the latest developments out of Zimbabwe and around the world. You can also get in touch with me on Twitter tweet me @robynkriel1.
I'm Robyn Kriel and that was CONNECT THE WORLD, thank you for watching.
[11:00:12] KRIEL: I'm Robyn Kriel, and this is CNN NEWS NOW