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Remains Found in Niger; U.S. Issues Travel Warning; North Korea Punishes Military Leaders; Trump Departs White House; Trump And Putin Speak; Trump Pardons Turkey. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired November 21, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Wherever you are watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Triangle of tension. One interfered in America's election. The other called a butcher by President Trump.

Tub today, the president and Vladimir Putin speak, as Putin cozies up with Syria's Bashar Al Assad.

Plus, a grim discovery in the search for answers into the deadly ambush of U.S. soldiers in Niger. More of Sergeant La David Johnson's remains have been found at the scene, raising new, hard questions about his final moments there.

And a cabinet under fire. Secretary of state Rex Tillerson now openly accused by State Department staffers of breaking a federal law.

And the travels of interior secretary Ryan Zinke facing new concerns, this time involving his wife.

And this. It is a tradition as old as Lincoln. And this is live pictures here from the White House, a presidential pardon that few would question.

Now, President Donald Trump who rose to the White House as a very non- traditional candidate who broke the tradition of releasing his tax returns and the tradition of hosting a White House Ramadan dinner is now moments away of issuing a traditional Thanksgiving pardon.

These are live pictures there, where, at any moment, President Trump will free two very lucky birds for the Thanksgiving holiday. We're going to bring you there from the White House the moment it starts.

But let me bring, first, CNN Political Director David Chalian. It's -- the president is going to head off to Mar-a-Lago, as you'd expect, for the holiday. This is a busy time, though. A lot of pressure, particularly with the tax reform bill.

What are the prospects, as we get into the holiday and after the holiday, for the bill?

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Well, one thing to watch over the holiday is how actively is the president working the phones, right?

I mean, part of what we saw in health care and part of what we've been observing now is sometimes the Republicans on the Hill think it's better if the president, sort of, keeps his distance from the process and let them whip the votes as needed.

Sometimes they would like the extra manpower in that very important voice, the president of the United States, on the other end to help whip some votes.

So, as Mitch McConnell plans to bring that big tax bill to the floor next week in the Senate, how much Donald Trump spends over the weekend to try to lock in the 51 votes they need is something we'll be on the lookout for.

SCIUTTO: And what's the latest reporting on whether he's going to be able to get those 51 votes?

CHALIAN: Well, right now, leadership feels that they are going to be able to get it, but that's not an uncommon thing for leadership to say, right up until they see the moment they see that they can't get it.

We know that there are some holdouts who have not made their position clear. Whether it is Bob Corker, Jeff Flake, concerns about the deficit. Whether it is John McCain, concerns about the process.

We know that right now Ron Johnson said he's a no, but you can already sense in a radio interview in Wisconsin that he is looking to get to yes. Susan Collins, a no.

So, there are people out there that need to be touched and called and the bill adjusted to address their specific concerns. But right now, the Republican leadership feels they're going to be able to get there.

SCIUTTO: Anne Gearan, Steve Warren joining me as well. Anne Gearan, an important phone call just moments before this tradition about to unfold at the White House here, the turkey pardoning. President Trump speaking with the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, specifically about Syria.

This follows just yesterday, Putin meeting with the butcher, you might say, of Syria, Bashar Al Assad. What did the president hope to accomplish with this phone call?

ANNE GEARAN, DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Well, we don't know the whole of what the White House agenda was. We know some topics and some top lines for the things they wanted to discuss. Would certainly include Syria, also North Korea.

But remember, the U.S. and Russia have been very awkwardly on the same side in part of the fight in Syria, that which involves the terror group, Islamic state or ISIS. And Putin, himself, said the other day, much of what Trump has been saying, that fight is largely over.

So, they have some coordination to do now, as to how they -- what the next step is in dealing with ISIS in Syria. It's not -- the fight isn't completely done.

But they were on the opposite sides of the -- of the longer-term fight which they now have to resolve which is what happens to Assad. And Putin has been his backer, his ally, his protector from the beginning. From Putin's perspective, Russia won and the United States lost in that political contest.

SCIUTTO: Is that -- is that the correct perspective? I mean, is there any evidence that Putin has not -- has not, in effect, retained his man, right, his guy in leadership?

GEARAN: He absolutely retained his guy in leadership. The question is, leadership of what? The country is a mess. It is ungovernable in its original outline as a state.

And so, what happens next is a very, very tricky political question. Certainly, the opposition to Assad isn't going to go away.

SCIUTTO: Right.

GEARAN: It's been, you know, essentially militarily neutered. But it's going to go away as a political force.

[13:05:03] So, the two of them have a lot of dealing -- coordination to do so that they don't get in one another's way.

And, I mean, from Putin's perspective, he needs to make sure that it -- that he is not entering into any discussion in which Assad would go away.

SCIUTTO: Hold on for one moment there because I think we're seeing -- here's President Trump arriving for this very traditional, all important pardoning, traditional pardoning of the Thanksgiving turkeys, there with Melania and his son, Barron, as well.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (live): Welcome to the White House, a very special place.

On behalf of Melania, Barron, I want to wish you and all Americans a very happy and blessed Thanksgiving. And I hear that beautiful turkey.

We are here today to continue a wonderful American tradition. Today, in the spirit of Thanksgiving I will grant a presidential pardon to a turkey. I'm especially pleased that we're joined for this great occasion by Karl Wittenberg, Chairman of the National Turkey Federation, along with his wife, Charlene, and sons, Nate and Wyatt.

It was 70 years ago that the National Turkey Federation first presented the national Thanksgiving turkey to President Harry Truman, who, I might add, did not grant the pardon. He refused. He was a tough cookie.

Today, I'm going to be a much nicer president. Over the past 10 months, Melania and I had the pleasure of welcoming many, many special visitors to the great White House. We have hosted dozens of incredible world leaders, members of Congress and, along the way, a few very strange birds. But we have yet to receive any visitors quite like our magnificent guest of honor today, Drumstick. Hi, Drumstick. Oh, Drumstick I think is going to be very happy.

I'm pleased to report that, unlike millions of other turkeys at this time of the year, Drumstick has a very, very bright future ahead of him. Drumstick was raised on Karl and Charlene's turkey farm in Douglas County, Minnesota with the help of five young women from the Douglas County 4-H chapter who are here with us today.

And I want to say, great work. Where are they? Please stand. Great job you've done. 4-H. That's great. Thank you.

Upon being pardoned, Drumstick and his friend, Wishbone, will live out their days at Gobbler's Rest, a beautiful place. It's custom built. It's an enclosure on the campus of Virginia Tech, a tremendous school. There, they'll join Tater and Tot, the two turkeys pardoned last year by President Obama.

As many of you know, I have been active in overturning a number of executive actions by my predecessor. However, I have been informed by the White House counsel's office that Tater and Tot's pardons cannot, under any circumstances, be revoked. So, I'm not going to revoke them. So, Tater and Tot, you can rest easy.

I'd also like to thank the National Turkey Federation for bringing along two other turkeys from Jaindl's turkey farm in Orefield, Pennsylvania. The great state of Pennsylvania.

We're donating these turkeys to Martha's table, a truly fantastic charity right here in Washington, D.C. which provides warm meals to people in need. They do a fantastic job.

Before we get to the pardon, I would like to take a moment to extend our very heart-felt special message. Thanks. Thanks, folks, to the finest and bravest people in the entire world, our great men and women in uniform, the military, law enforcement, first responders. These are incredible people. So, thank you.

Many of you are always -- and you know your loved ones. And you're far away and spend so much time away. This Thanksgiving, I want each of you to know that we're forever grateful for the incredible job and for the incredible sacrifices that you and your families make in defense of our nation, our freedom and our truly great American flag.

[13:10:02] I'd also like to express my thanks to the wonderful citizens of our country, the people who care for our communities, raise America's children, uphold our laws and our values and make this amazing land into our national home.

As we gather together with our families on Thanksgiving and give thanks for many blessings, we are reminded of the national family to which we all belong as citizens of this incredible country. This Thursday, as we give thanks for our cherished loved ones, let us also renew our bonds of trust, loyalty and affection between our fellow citizens as members of a proud national family of Americans.

And now, I think Drumstick and Wishbone would be very thankful if we would just get around to the pardon. They say, enough talk, please pardon us.

So, I want to thank everybody for being here today and wish everybody a very, very happy Thanksgiving. Very special people. A very special country. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Wow. Wow. That's a big bird. How heavy is that bird?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-six pounds.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Thirty-six pounds. That's a big bird. Am I allowed to touch it? Wow. I feel so good about myself (INAUDIBLE.) Are you ready, Drumstick? Okay. Drumstick, you are here by pardoned.

Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: The president there -- the president there just officially pardoning one of the two turkeys, Drumstick and Wishbone.

But even in this holiday tradition, a bit of a shot at his predecessor, Barrack Obama, David Chalian, making a little joke about all the executive orders of his -- of his Democratic predecessor and how this is one executive order he could not revoke.

CHALIAN: Right. Clearly an attempt to bring humor to what is undoubtedly a humorous event to watch the president of the United States every year pardon turkeys.

But as you noted, his version of humor, it's not self-effacing in any way. It is, once again, taking the opportunity to have a little elbow to his predecessor. He did properly note that he has been very focused on overturning Obama-era rules and regulations and declarations that the president -- that President Obama put in place.

Again, an attempt at humor but a clear insight into Donald Trump's thinking, even at very casual holiday events like this.

SCIUTTO: Yes, even Tater and Tot are political in this environment.

Well, now that that tradition has passed, I do want to go back to the phone call earlier today, between President Trump and his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin. We were talking about Syria.

Of course, the other issue in Syria is the continued presence of ISIS. They've been rooted out of Raqqa but run to the hills, in effect. Possibly, Steve Warren, returning to a more traditional insurgency in the shadows?

COL. STEVE WARREN (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that's what we're going to see. We still have some military capabilities running along the Euphrates River Valley there in Syria, both American, Syrian opposition. Syrian government and even Russian capabilities all, kind of, merging in that same area.

So, there is certainly some de-complication (ph) that needs to be done. And we're going to continue to see a need to focus efforts against this enemy because they're not gone.

SCIUTTO: Right, no question. And a lot of troops still in harm's way there as well.

WARREN: A lot of U.S. troops in harm's way. A lot of U.S. troops stumbling over troops from other nations. So, it's just become a very crowded battlefield.

SCIUTTO: All right, Steve, Anne and David, please stay with me.

Stand by, everyone, because we have more breaking news today. More remains of La David Johnson have been discovered at the site of the deadly ambush of U.S. soldiers in Niger. We're going to have more details next.

And more women coming forward, accusing T.V. legend, Charlie Rose, of sexual harassment. Now, as his co-hosts react live on the air, Rose has just been fired by CBS. Details on that as well, right after this.

[13:15:04]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back.

We are getting word of a grim development in the deadly ambush of four U.S. soldiers in Niger. The Pentagon now confirming that more remains of Sergeant La David Johnson have been recovered at the site where his body was found.

The story reported this morning by our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr. She joins us now live.

Barbara, when you look at this, I mean the simplest question is, how did this happen?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, that is the question.

You know, in early November, a team of military and FBI investigators went to Niger. They went to the village where the team had been. They went to the ambush site. They were collecting evidence. They were interviewing local villagers, others in the area, about what they know, what they saw, what might have happened.

[13:20:07] And we're told now that when they went to the place, the site where Sergeant La David Johnson's body was recovered, they were also able to recover some additional remains. We are told that these remains are essentially bone fragments and that they were able, through armed forces medical examiners, to identify them as belonging to La David Johnson. Very difficult business.

And, of course, the big question is, will these bone fragments shed any additional light on how he died and what might have happened to his body during that 48 hour period between the ambush and when his body was recovered.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: And all the circumstances still the subjects of a military investigation. Of course first on your mind, I imagine, the news for his family. Sergeant Johnson has already been laid to rest.

STARR: Well, that's right. And what we all wanted to do was to make sure that his family had been briefed, his young widow had been given all of this information before any of it was publicly reported. We were assures early today by Pentagon officials that she had been briefed.

Military experts will tell you there have been cases where additional remains are found after the fact. And it's up to the family. They can take possession of those remains certainly and they can have another memorial service, another funeral. It is really now up to the Johnson family how they want to handle all this.

SCIUTTO: And that family has been through so much already.

Barbara Starr, thanks very much, at the Pentagon, the first to report this news.

I want to bring back my panel, retired Colonel Steve Warren, former spokesman for the anti-ISIS coalition in Iraq, and Anne Gearan, she's the diplomatic correspondent for "The Washington Post."

Steve, listen, combat -- combat is messy. Combat is bloody. This kind of thing can happen in these circumstances.

But was there a failure here by the military to not have collected all these remains initially?

WARREN: I don't think we can call this a failure at this point. I think in many cases, as you said, this is a messy, dirty, horrific business. I think it's actually a credit to those investigators that they were able to recover these additional remains.

As we've heard, we're talking about fragments here. Sometimes almost imperceptible. Very small pieces of remains that we were able to collect and bring 100 percent of Sergeant La David Johnson home, back to the United States.

SCIUTTO: Understood. And, listen, there are still very, very hard questions remain about the circumstances, what they were doing there, what orders they were under, et cetera.

We do have some news, and I want to ask you about this, Anne Gearan, that the U.S. has just issued a travel warning for Saudi Arabia, citing risks for terror groups. That's been an existing threat. But perhaps the newest here, threats of missile attacks by rebel forces in Yemen. And that's been a concern already because we have a missile launch just a couple of weeks ago. How significant should we expect the risk to be in Saudi Arabia now? I'm sure there are a number of our listeners here who might travel there.

ANNE GEARAN, DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes. I mean this latest warning issued today supersedes one that came out in July that warned of dangers, sort of diffused terrorist dangers, in several of the major cities in Saudi Arabia and the possibility of westerners being targeted.

This is a little different because it appears to be the State Department's response to this missile attack which originated from Yemen and which -- for which the United States has blamed Iranian- backed rebels there.

SCIUTTO: Right.

GEARAN: The -- obviously that wasn't aimed specifically at westerners, it was aimed at a Saudi city and anyone and anything it might hit. But the State Department is telling Americans, be aware that there is potentially another terror front opening and you could be the -- you could be a victim without being targeted.

SCIUTTO: Right, a very active war underway there.

Of course another threat top of the minds of the administration and many is, is North Korea. CNN has learned of a high level military shake-up happening right now in North Korea.

Steve Warren, we've seen this happen before as Kim Jong-un sometimes takes out people very close to him in horrible ways. What can we read into that in terms of the stability of that regime?

WARREN: Yes, what this tells us is several things. First of all, I think is that, you know, Kim is, to some extent, paranoid, right? He does not want anyone around him, under him, able to accumulate any power. And so he continuously shakes up his internal systems.

But that does two things. One, it does keep everyone weaker, but it also creates instability. So by trying to prevent threats, he actually triggers some instability inside of his own regime. It will make it more difficult to run the country. It will make the military much more I think nervous about how they should act. We saw a defector just the other day come right over the border. He was shot several times by the South Koreans. But he ran. He broke and ran. So I think we're going to continue to see this. We don't know exactly where it will lead, but it's certainly something to keep an eye on.

SCIUTTO: No question. In the past, one of the results of that is that he's taken out the contacts within his regime, for instance, for China, which was -- which was a way to communicate with the regime, which has consequences going forward.

[13:25:09] GEARAN: Yes. But I think Steve's point that from Kim's -- you know, what Kim's doing here is he's just sort of constantly keeping everybody on their toes and making clear that no one accumulates, particularly within the military, which -- on which the North Korean state depends, no one has an independent power source that could challenge him.

I think the defector is an important part of this, though. I mean this is, in many ways, Kim punishing the head of the part of the military that's in charge of indoctrination.

SCIUTTO: Right.

GEARAN: If a guy is willing to break and run across the DMZ --

SCIUTTO: That's a failure.

GEARAN: That is -- from his perspective, that's a failure.

SCIUTTO: Anne Gearan, Steve Warren, thanks very much.

Trump administration giving this message to thousands of Haitians who fled to the U.S. after a devastating earthquake, get ready to go home. Officials placing an expiration date to the immigrant's temporary protective status here in the U.S.

Plus, breaking new, CBS has fired legendary journalist Charlie Rose as more women come forward accusing him of sexual harassment. We'll have new details on that story next.