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Trump Administration to End Temporary Protected Status for Haiti; Judge Blocks Trump's Sanctuaries Cities Order; Flynn Under Microscope in Mueller Investigation; State Department Officials Accuse Tillerson of Breaking Federal Law; Questions on Zinke, Wife's Air Travel; CBS, PBS Fire Charlie Rose over Sexual Allegations; Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe Forced to Resign. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired November 21, 2017 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[13:30:49] JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Welcome back. The White House is ordering tens of thousands of Haitians to leave the United States by July of 2019. The Trump administration ending the temporary protected status for Haiti, granted after an earthquake devastated the island in 2010. Dropping the protective status means more than 58,000 Haitians will have to leave or find another way to stay here in the U.S.
Democratic Congressman Ted Deutch, from Florida, joins me from Fort Lauderdale.
Congressman, listening to this announcement from the Trump administration, what's your reaction?
REP. TED DEUTCH, (D), FLORIDA: Well, I'm really disappointed by this decision by the administration which really flies in the face of the that America has historically played to provide relief. The Haitians who came here after the earthquake who would like to go back and can't because things are not ready for them. The hurricane that went through in 2016 went through the bread basket of the country. The country is just not in a position to take them back. Those positions here in Florida are working in the communities and contributing to the communities. They are part of the solution and contributing back to Haiti to help with the rebuilding. It would be devastating to force them to return before the country is able to accept them.
SCIUTTO: I want to read how the chairman of the committee's reaction to this, blasting the decision in his statement. He said, "As the proud son of two immigrants who fled an oppressive regime, I'm disgusted at the president's heartlessness. With this decision, Trump is tearing families apart and turning his back on the values that made our country great."
I want to ask you this. From your perspective, do you see this as consistent of the other positions on immigrants? Do you think that's part of the same position in effect?
DEUTCH: I don't know how you could think otherwise, Jim. Sadly, the president's position consistently has been anti-immigrant, anti- refugee in this case. This is a humanitarian program that the president is now turning his back on. You can't -- it does no good and it is inconsistent with American values to attempt to demonize immigrants for political gain. That's not who we are. To make this announcement now right in advance of is troubling and upsetting about the Haitian community and raises concerns about the decision coming with respect to the Salvadorians. I have to tell you, we should be concerned about where the administration might be going when it comes to DACA as well.
SCIUTTO: On another issue, and perhaps under the same umbrella, a federal judge has blocked and ordered by President Trump to cut funding for so-called sanctuary cities that limit their cooperation with immigration officials. When you look at that decision, do you think that's the final word on the president's immigration policies regarding sanctuary cities or do you see the battle as continuing?
DEUTCH: I would hope so, but as we were discussing, the president has time and time again sought to demonize immigrants. That was that is not just anti-immigrant, but against the betterment of our own communities when you say you are going to deny funding because of communities that work with immigrant communities to make the communities feel to come out and to work with local law enforcement, you are not just hurting them. You are hurting the community as a whole. I hope this is the last we hear of it, but I suspect it's not.
SCIUTTO: Florida, of course, is a state that has many immigrant communities strong today. Many of them growing. What is their reaction? What do you hear from constituents regarding the president's policies with immigrants?
[13:34:54] DEUTCH: There is disappointment and outrage. I was on the phone on my way over here. He just doesn't understand that at a moment like this, you have a program that permed to not only contribute to America because they are here in south Florida. I wish they would speak to the Haitian community and hear from all of those who are part of this community that they contribute to. They can welcome the return of these people. It's really upsetting to the Haitian community and there is real concern I hear about the actions of this administration with respect to immigrants. The fear that these actions have taken. The fear throughout the community and again, it's so troubling because it's not who we are as a people.
SCIUTTO: I want to move on to the Russia investigation, and the House Judiciary involved in that. There appears to be mounting pressure on former national security adviser, Michael Flynn. Based on what you have seen so far, and I don't want you to get into classified materials, but is it your judgment that General Flynn broke the law?
DEUTCH: Well, it's my judgment that Congress ought to be doing everything it can right now to protect the Mueller investigation so that the president cannot step in and interfere with it at a time when it looks like there is mounting evidence that an indictment could be brought down against General Flynn. I don't have information specifically about what they are doing. It's an independent investigation and it needs to be. But remember as I asked the attorney general this week when the president sought to interfere with the initial investigation into Flynn when he asked the then FBI director to let Flynn go, there is every reason to believe based on that that the president is looking for ways again to interfere with this investigation into Flynn. We are to make sure that doesn't happen. We have to protect the investigation so that it can be completed and follow its course wherever that may take it.
SCIUTTO: And to be clear, there is some on the other side who expressed similar fears.
Congressman Ted Deutch, of Florida, Thanks very much. And happy Thanksgiving to you and your family.
DEUTCH: Thanks. I appreciate it. Same to you and yours, and the viewers.
SCIUTTO: Coming up next, Trump's cabinet under fire. Why the Interior secretary's wife is scrutinized for her travel practices and special requests.
Plus, an extraordinary move. Some State Department officials accusing Secretary of State Rex Tillerson of breaking a federal law. Hear why, after this.
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[13:42:17] SCIUTTO: Welcome back. Two members of President Trump's cabinet are under fire. Staffers for Rex Tillerson, and secretary of the Interior, Ryan Zinke, are upset and they're speaking out.
For more now, let's bring in CNN senior diplomatic correspondent, Michelle Kosinski, and CNN correspondent, Tom Foreman.
Michelle, if I can, I'll begin with you.
It's quite unusual. There are current members of the star of accusing the secretary of staff of breaking a federal law.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN SENIOR DIPLOMATIC CORRESPONDENT: There is a law called the Child Soldiers Prevention Act. A list that the State Department assembles and puts out. If a government entity is recruiting child soldiers. Three countries are in question, Iraq, Afghanistan and Burma. If you are on the list, the U.S. government is not supposed to give military aid or cooperate with you militarily unless they get a waiver. Instead of going through the waiver process, Tillerson took those three countries off the list.
SCIUTTO: Unilaterally, took them off?
KOSINSKI: Yes. The State Department explained, and the reporting that has come out, first in Reuters. You have to distinguish between the countries that are not doing anything and those that are doing something. They feel these three countries have made an effort, but you are supposed to go through the process according to federal law.
SCIUTTO: They just have a few child soldiers? Is that it? Is that the explanation? KOSINSKI: It's up for debate how much work they have done. The point here is you are not supposed to do it this way. This was against the recommendation of top State Department officials. They filed this decent memo, the internal way of doing it. This isn't the first time we've seem this. Remember, right after the first travel ban, hundreds and hundreds of State Department officials signed a decent memo. It's one more symptom of the morale problem.
And here's how Secretary Tillerson spoke out against that.
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REX TILLERSON, SECRETARY OF STATES: This department is performing extraordinarily well. I think it -- (INAUDIBLE).
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KOSINSKI: He said the problems. They are intensely working on the State Department and reshaping the departments and things like that. That's a lot of the morale now.
SCIUTTO: The secretary of state didn't seem to particularly like that question.
Tom, Interior Secretary Ryan Zinke now under this cloud to some degree.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a lot less weighty than what we're talking about here. Maybe a bigger concern to taxpayers. It's between air travel and dinner reservations. Questions coming up against these different members of the cabinet about how they are using private planes and military planes when they might be able to use commercial planes. Whether or not that is truly all for business or if some of it is for their private use.
[13:45:16] SCIUTTO: Is the policy not clear?
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FOREMAN: It's very clear, but the use of it may not be clear. The new questions, papers that were dredged up by the western values project. This is a group out in the country that got newspapers about Lola Zinke, who is Secretary Zinke's wife, and the degree to which she was asking the people to work up arrangements for her travel and dinner plans and all sorts of things like that. Again, she insists, and the department said she paid for everything. It's not a waste of dollars here. Probably wouldn't even be talking about this, except we had the other members caught up in the question about how they are spending money and their wives, including Steve Mnuchin's wife. She has not made it easier on herself with some of the things she's done. And the secretary of Health and Human Services, Tom Price, who dropped out, and his wife also.
SCIUTTO: The simple solution would be just use it for government work. Save money where you can because it's cheaper to fly commercial. FOREMAN: The ones that get no questions do exactly that. They have
to run it by the Ethics Office to get it approved. If it's not clear that it was approved, it's not clear. Taxpayers say, why am I paying for you to visit your home, even if you did visit a small bit of government business while you were there.
SCIUTTO: OK. Seems simple, but it's not.
(CROSSTALK)
SCIUTTO: Michelle Kosinski, Tom Foreman, thanks very much.
Coming up, a legendary broadcaster now out of two jobs amid multiple harassment allegations. The details when we come back.
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[13:51:21] SCIUTTO: Well, this just into CNN. Charlie Rose is now out at both CBS and PBS. The company says it's fired Rose as his job of co-host of the morning show. PBS has just announced it's terminating its contract with the broadcast legend. It comes after "The Washington Post" published a story based on interviews with eight women who accused Rose of making unwanted sexual advancements. The women either worked for or wanted to work for "The Charlie Rose Show."
His co-hosts addressed it at the top of the show.
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GAYLE KING, CHARLIE ROSE'S CO-HOST: I certainly echo that. I have to say, Norah, I really am still reeling. I got one hour and 42 minutes of sleep last night. Both my son and daughter called me. Oprah called me and said am, I OK, I am not OK. After reading that story in "The Post," it was troubling to read. The women who spoke up because they were afraid, I hope now they will take the steps to speak up to that this becomes a moment of truth.
You know, I've enjoyed a friendship and partnership with Charlie for the past five years. I've held him in such high regard. And I'm struggling because what do you say, how do you say when someone that you deeply care about has done something that is so horrible. How do you wrap your brain around that? I'm really grappling with that. That said, Charlie does not get a pass here. He doesn't get a pass from anyone in this room. We're all deeply affected. We're all rocked by this.
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SCIUTTO: I should note that Rose has apologized, said he's embarrassed by his behavior, but has added he does not believe all of the actions are true. The Washington Post" said, since the story's publication, more women have come forward with similar stories.
I want to bring in Hadas Gold, CNN media reporter.
Remarkable timing. "The Washington Post" report came out yesterday. Swift action by PBS and CBS since then?
HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA REPORTER: Exactly. Time moves at a different pace it feels though. You're right, both PBS and CBS have taken swift action, most of it surrounding Charlie Rose's show by PBS. CBS said they received no official complaints about his actions at CBS. Nonetheless, they did take action. This is from a memory that the president sent out, he said, "Despite Charlie's important journalist contribution to our news division, there is absolutely nothing more important in this or any organization than insuring safe and professional workplace. We need to be such a place".
And PBS, just minutes ago, announced they're terminating their relationship with Charlie Rose, where a lot of these allegations took place around the show. They said, "In light of yesterday's revelations, PBS has terminated its relationship with Charlie Rose and cancelled distribution of his programs. PBS expects all the producers to be treated with dignity and respect."
Clearly, companies moving very fast when these revelations come forward. We're in a new sort of world here where companies don't sit by anymore. People are losing jobs. Movies are changing. Kevin Spacey, the movie is being reshot, millions of dollars. It's a different environment right now.
SCIUTTO: CBS did not have any H.R. complaints about Rose. Did PBS say the same thing?
GOLD: In the statement, PBS did not specify whether it had such complaints. According to "The Washington Post" story, some of these stories were brought up with a supervisor of the show. We'll see more reporting on who knew what and where.
[13:55:09] SCIUTTO: Shared responsibility or inaction.
Hadas Gold, thank you very much.
More breaking news. A historic moment. After decades in power, Zimbabwe's controversial president has been forced to resign. Celebrations, as you're seeing, erupting in the streets. We're going to take you there, live, right after this.
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SCIUTTO: You're looking at live pictures here, people dancing in the streets of Zimbabwe's capital Harare today, celebrating the resignation of the nation's longtime leader, Robert Mugabe's decades of brutal undemocratic rule there. You can see just how happy many Zimbabweans are right now.
Our David McKenzie joins me from Harare.
Takes us through the reaction there, and what comes next. Is this a prospect that many Zimbabweans couldn't hope for because he was sun a survivor, Mugabe, for years?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. Survivor for over decades, 37 years in power in Zimbabwe, Robert Mugabe. Since last Wednesday, when a coup effectively pushed him out and he was under house detention, people were wondering hoping that the leader would step down, resign voluntarily. But what you've seen on the streets tonight is an extraordinary moment of people with the resignation letter had come in, that he was leaving power after all of these years of oppression, detentions of people that fulfilled their lives at times. And you're seeing these amazing celebrations on the street. People fist pumping and high-fiving. The military saying is this a time for them. This is a time for Zimbabwe. And what's next? Well, everyone's holding their breath. We believe that the ex-vice president might be sworn in soon. But this is a moment for Zimbabweans and all over the world, including the U.S., who will be celebrating today, the end of Robert Mugabe and his long reign -- Jim?
SCIUTTO: And the question is, what follows more Democratic than what Mugabe brought to that area.
David McKenzie there live on the streets in the Zimbabwe capitol, celebrating the end of Robert Mugabe's 37-yeawr reign there.
That's it for us now. NEWSROOM with Brooke Baldwin starts right now.
