Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Russia, Turkey and Iran hold summit on Syria's future; Trump: AT&T- Time Warner deal bad for US; Plan unveiled to overturn US net neutrality; President defends Roy Moore: "Look, he denies it"; Scandals gripping Hollywood, media and politics; "On Japan": Scientist scraps soil, grows food on film. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired November 22, 2017 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:00:24]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the program. I'm Hala Gorani. We're coming to you live from CNN London.
Tonight, justice at last, the commander behind massacres at Srebrenica and across Bosnia is convicted of genocide today. Ratko Mladic also guilty of
crimes against humanity. We'll look at that story.
And the crocodile returns, Zimbabwe's fired vice president lands in Harare a day after Robert Mugabe steps down. What does it mean for the future of
Zimbabwe?
Speaking of comeback, Lebanon's prime minister returns and puts his Riyadh resignation on ice.
Nothing could ever bring back the thousands of lives that Ratko Mladic destroyed or erase the pain that will torment the victims' loved ones
forever. But after agonizing decades long wait for justice, today, it finally arrived at The Hague.
A tribunal convicted the former Bosnian Serb commander of atrocities during the 1990's Bosnian war sentencing him to life in prison. As CNN's
Christiane Amanpour reports, Mladic remained defiant until the very end.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The judge at the U.N. Tribunal hands down the verdict, guilty of 10 of 11
counts of genocide and crimes against humanity, against the former Bosnian Serb commander, Ratko Mladic.
But Mladic wasn't even there to hear the words he dreaded. After giving a thumbs up at the start of this hearing, he ended up by shouting that the
charges were all lies, he was promptly evicted from the proceedings.
I first met Mladic in the summer of 1993, a full year into the war. It was on a hill top above Sarajevo. The city his forces were besieging,
bombarding, sniping, and shelling. Back then, he was a swaggering war lord, who thought he was being amusing, talking about his ethnic cleansing
campaign against the Muslims.
RATKO MLADIC, FORMER BOSNIAN SERB COMMANDER (through translator): We would be poor without the Muslims. It's good to have them around, but in a
smaller concentration.
AMANPOUR: But the swagger deserted him in court on the day he faced justice and a sentence.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For having committed these crimes, the chamber sentences Mr. Ratko Mladic to life imprisonment.
AMANPOUR: Mladic, his family, and his lawyer continue to deny the facts.
DARKO MLADIC, RATKO MLADIC'S SON: Justice was replaced with war propaganda.
AMANPOUR: His son says Mladic will never accept responsibility and says he insists any atrocities were committed by low-level foot soldiers. His
lawyer says Mladic will fight on in court.
DRAGAN IVETIC, MLADIC LAWYER: We expect that the court will always render a fair judgment, applying the appropriate burden of proof to the facts. We
believe that was not done in this case. It is certain that we will file an appeal and the appeal will be successful.
AMANPOUR: But also watching this verdict, families, the Bosnian women in Srebrenica who wanted to hear the fate of the man who had given the orders
to slaughter their men, old and young at Srebrenica.
They have fought hard for this day. They have waited often impatiently for this justice. They say it has finally come, even though, justice will
never bring back their loved ones.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: And Christiane joins me in the studio now with more. What do you make of the sentence?
AMANPOUR: Well, I just think it's exactly, you know, justice was delivered today and you could see, really it's what the victims and the families make
of the sentence, and if they are satisfied, then we should be satisfied.
And there's no reason not to be satisfied, except that it took so long, and it was a bloody, bloody high cost, for these people who lost 7,000 young
boys, some 14 years old, and elderly men, not even fighting age people who tried to flee, and they were slaughtered in mass graves on their way into
the forest to try to escape.
It was very important that justice has been done. That he's had the books thrown at him. That we know, and the world knows, and that enshrined in
legal precedent that genocide was committed.
That he gave the orders for that genocide. That crimes against humanity were -- other war crimes, I mean, when you look at the actual specific
charges, extermination, you know, forcible transfer of civilians. the murder of civilians and on and on.
I mean, these are the kinds of words we heard in World War II. This was the first time this kind of ethnic cleansing, which led to genocide was
committed in Europe since World War II, and it caught the world by surprise, and they waited way too long to intervene.
[15:05:08] GORANI: And there's so many leaders and people responsible for war crimes who were never held accountable and this sends a message to some
of them.
AMANPOUR: Absolutely. So, I think most definitely that this is a signal and a message. Right now, we have what I call, Bosnia on steroids that's
been happening in Syria, the mass slaughter of civilians causing millions and millions of refugees, the use of chemical warfare, in other words,
genocide.
The Bosnian did it by slaughter. Assad is doing it with chemical warfare. You know, it's interesting, when I first talked to Ratko Mladic in 1993, I
asked him, because a tribunal had just been set up, what would happen if he had to stand up and be counted. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: America has called him a war criminal and under any kind of U.N. Tribunal, he might have to be prosecuted, what does he think about that?
It's tough question, but he's a tough man and he can answer it.
MLADIC: Yes, I can take it. I defended my people and only my people can judge me, and there's no greater honor than defending your people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AMANPOUR: So, Hala, that said it all that he was scoffing and laughing and belittling me and you know, playing the big swagger. You know, the court
had the last laugh, justice has had the last laugh, and he has had to pay.
And as one person said, and you heard, you know, the lawyers say that this court was bias, of course, it wasn't biased. It has tried and convicted
(inaudible) Muslims, but the preponderance of the crimes were committed by the Serbs, and they have paid the highest and heaviest price. It was
incredibly important that this day happened.
GORANI: Does this close a chapter?
AMANPOUR: Yes, it does close a chapter because now all three of the main architects of that war have faced trial and have been convicted. You know,
the first one, the Serbian former president (inaudible) died before he even got to a verdict.
But, they were all eventually as late as it was, you know, taken to justice and as the Human Rights commissioner today said (inaudible), you know, this
is a message that no matter how powerful and no matter how long it takes, you will not be able to hide, and you will be held accountable.
GORANI: Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much for joining us.
Well, we stay with this story, endless rows of white marble tombstones symbolize the horror that took place in Srebrenica on the summer of 1995.
Thousands of Muslim men and boys, husbands, brothers, sons, uncles, were slaughtered in Europe's worst massacre since World War II.
Their families and others who lost loved ones to Mladic's war crimes waited decades for this day to come. Melissa Bell brings us some of their
reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They gathered in Sarajevo, Srebrenica and in The Hague, victims of the Bosnian war, who
waited more than 22 years to see this man hear his verdict. But until the very end of the trial of the former Bosnian Serb military commander, Ratko
Mladic, made for difficult viewing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Mladic will be remove from the courtroom.
BELL: A little earlier, Mladic's lengthy toilet break had in sense this group of rape and concentration camp survivors in downtown Sarajevo, no
one, they said had ever allowed them a toilet break.
There was anger here too when the first charge of genocide relating to six towns other than Srebrenica was thrown out. Among those towns,
(inaudible), where (inaudible) saw her family killed in 1992.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I am a second-time victim of this system, this system and the politics of the international community.
And this verdict and lifelong imprisonment means something to me, but they should have included genocide in all of the towns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For having committed these crimes, the chamber sentences Mr. Ratko Mladic to life imprisonment.
BELL: In Srebrenica, the final verdict also felt bitter sweet for some. (Inaudible) lost more than 50 members of her extended family in the
Srebrenica massacre. She lost her husband as he tried to flee Mladic's men more than 22 years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Nothing can be done to take that back and there's no punishment that could be handed to him for him to feel
something. I don't know how he can feel our pain, there's nothing, but still, it does mean some justice is done.
BELL: And for those here at the market in Sarajevo, bombed by Bosnian Serbs not once, but twice during the war and part of the charges against
Mladic, there was also relief.
[15:10:03] One man showed us the name of his sister who died here in the 1994 bombing that killed 68 people. He too was here that day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was walking, people were screaming, I saw they were dragging people without legs, without heads, a
river of blood was flying, God help us, and then I remembered, where is my sister? She died right here, right here.
BELL (on camera): Another survivor who was back at this market today pointed out the great diversity of those who had lost 1994. They had been
Croates, he said, and Serbs and Muslims, a reminder he pointed out of all who always made Sarajevo so special and precisely he said what Ratko Mladic
had sought to destroy. Melissa Bell, CNN, in Sarajevo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: As we mentioned, a chapter closing in that part of the world.
In another part of the world, perhaps a new chapter starting, the man designated to replace Robert Mugabe as the president of Zimbabwe is back in
the country.
(VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: A few hours ago today when former vice president, Emmerson Nnangagwa, arrived at the headquarters of the ruling party. Just over two
weeks ago, it was a very different scene, he was fired by Mr. Mugabe and fled Zimbabwe, which sparked this entire political firestorm.
Let's go to Farai Sevenzo. He is live for us in the capital, Harare. So, the new party leader, what is he promising his countrymen and women?
They're still celebrating, should they be?
FARAI SEVENZO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in the cold harsh light of a new day, Hala, it seems that all those euphoric celebrations have led us to
this point. The former vice president has arrived in a 12-minute speech addressing the ZANU-PF faithful at his party headquarters, he had this to
say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMERSON MNANGAGWA, FORMER ZIMBABWEAN VICE PRESIDENT: I pledge myself to be your servant. I appeal to all genuine Zimbabweans, to come together, to
work together. No one is more important than the other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEVENZO: And he was very keen, Hala, to press that message of no one is more important than the other. Clearly, drawing a line between the actions
of his former boss, Robert Mugabe, who is no longer the president. And he actually called him in that speech, he is now the former president of the
Republic of Zimbabwe, to great cheers.
That's where we are at the moment. He's now going to be inaugurated, I believe, on Friday and he will be the president that would take his party,
ZANU-PF, into the 2018 elections.
GORANI: OK, so 2018 elections. Let me ask you a little bit about what to expect here because this is a country with Robert Mugabe as president for
almost 40 years, opposition group leaders have been jailed. The free press has been stifled. Can we expect a free and fair election in Zimbabwe next
year?
SEVENZO: You know, you have bear in mind that Emmerson Mnangagwa, this is a little known fact, has actually lost in his own constituency, twice due
to an unknown opposition figure in parliamentary elections, he has never actually won an election.
It's something that the Zimbabweans are always talking about. In fact, all his (inaudible) with his legal and parliamentary affairs, minister of
justice or minister of defense have been conferred on him by Robert Mugabe.
But now with the mood as it is, this euphoric mood, it's really up to him when they have the elections because he could win for the first time if he
went tomorrow morning for an election.
But that's not going to happen, the country needs to get used to such dispensation, will he give members of the opposition jobs in his
administration, in the name of creating a new Democratic Zimbabwe.
But my guess is, Hala, that we are going to see more of the same, but in terms of the ZANU-PF being in control of the government, they are the most
powerful party in the country, and they have the support of the army and the police.
And indeed, they still have the numbers in terms of people turning up, which is what the opposition have to do. They have to try to unite.
They're so fractured to take him on. And it will be very interesting when he gives another speech and we will see exactly what he intends to do with
this nation.
GORANI: All right. We'll see how long the dancing in the streets continue and the celebrations continue. Farai Sevenzo live in Harare, thanks very
much.
[15:15:11] Speaking of political returns, dancing in the streets of London as well. We'll go to Beirut to learn why supporters of Saad Hariri credit
him with averting an all-out national crisis. We're live in the Lebanese capital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Uncertainty over Brexit is putting a banner in the works of the British economy and that became all too clear when the British finance
minister, Philip Hammond, known here as the Chancellor of the Exchequer announced a new U.K. budget today.
Hammond said he's setting aside an extra $4 billion over the next two years for Brexit related costs. He also presented new independent forecast that
slash growth until the end of the decade. Despite all of that, Hammond was trying as hard as he could to be optimistic, even cracking a joke or two.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILIP HAMMOND, BRITISH FINANCE MINISTER: I did take the precaution of asking my right honorable friend to bring a packet of Cough Sweets just in
case. I shall first report to the House on the economic forecasts of the independent OBR. This is the bit with the long economic words in it.
There is perhaps no technology as symbolic of the revolution gathering pace around us as drivalist vehicles. I know that Jeremy Clarkson doesn't like
them, sorry, Jeremy, but definitely not the first time you have been snubbed by Hammond (inaudible). Don't tell anyone say I don't know how to
show the nation a good time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Those cough drops were obviously a reference to a coughing fit that Theresa May, the prime minister had at the Tory Party conference.
Earlier I spoke to a former conservative cabinet minister, Nicky Morgan. She was a key campaigner for Britain staying in the European Union. I
began by getting her reaction to being labelled a Brexit mutineer because she wants to be able to discuss what's -- how Brexit goes ahead.
Even though she is a conservative for the party of her own prime minister. She was on the front page of "The Daily Telegraph" a few days ago. I asked
her what does it feel like to be considered a rebel?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICKY MORGAN, FORMER BRITISH CABINET MINISTER: Well, I suppose I'm asking questions about it and I'm doing what people do which is to put down
amendments to a piece of legislation going through and just saying that in taking back control of our laws in Europe, parliament must not be
sidelined. And so, I think there are some people who recognize, that's what MPs do, and others would rather that we didn't ask questions.
GORANI: So you don't sound like you think the way this government is negotiating Brexit that this government is not doing a good job?
MORGAN: Well, I think the government has a very difficult task in terms of negotiations around Brexit.
[15:20:09] It's important to get the right deal. But in terms of the way Brexit is being implemented over here, I think it is very important that
parliament absolutely has a final say on the deal that's negotiated.
But also in terms of laws coming back from Europe, the parliament is able to scrutinize and there's a chair of what's called a select committee, one
of the senior committees in parliament. Again, I think it's my duty really to scrutinize legislation on behalf of parliament and my constituents.
GORANI: The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Philip Hammond today admitted that growth forecasts will be slashed in Britain over the next several
years. Inflation has gone up. Interest rates are going to go up. Jobs will inevitably relocate as a result of Brexit. Do you have -- do you
believe a moral duty to call for potentially another referendum? Do you think Brexit is irreversible?
MORGAN: Well, I think that actually one of the things is that we had this referendum and I obviously have very strong views and campaigns to remain,
but my concern about having a second referendum is that first, it's being so divisive for this country.
And that actually if we were to have a second vote and to say that actually we think people should again. Actually, what does that say about
democracy? We asked the people their opinion. They've given it to us.
I think that we all going to leave in the European Union, but I'd be very clear that as member of parliament, I'm not going to sign off on a Brexit
that undermines our economy, our constitutional values as a country.
And I think it's important now that we're focusing on supporting the government in the negotiations, having a transitional deal, listening to
what businesses are telling us, doing it in the least damaging way, and also being sensible about making preparations, and that's what we saw in
the chancellor's budget today.
GORANI: In light of all the new information we're hearing from the Chancellor of the Exchequer today, we're also hearing that there will be
staff shortages, nurse shortages in the NHS, for instance, should people not have the right to consider the question again?
MORGAN: Well, I think that actually the whole point about having a democracy is that if you have people for a vote and a view on something, we
have to have that. It's been enormously divisive, and that question is, whether you --
GORANI: But that information wasn't available when the question was first posed?
MORGAN: Well, I think that's debatable, to be honest with you, I think there were lots of warnings. I have very mixed feelings from my
constituents. My constituency voted very much 50/50 in the referendum.
But as MPs have to stand back, governments have to stand back and should think about the whole democratic system that we have in this country.
We've asked people for a view and for a vote. And at the moment, I certainly don't detect any great shift in public sentiment.
GORANI: And there's been departures from the May government. You yourself have been very critical of the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson. Do you
think the government of Theresa May can survive?
MORGAN: Absolutely, I think it can. I think judged on today's performance of the budget, actually it showed a government with a real sense of vision
for the future. It's undoubtedly been very difficult year for the government, with the election results and everything else.
But I think that shows a real sense of coming together. Brexit is an enormous challenge, it clearly hangs over as I said in the Commons today, a
bit like a cloud over Westminster and the government.
But we've got to get through this, I mean, to some of the European Council is going to be very important in terms of moving to the next stage of the
trade negotiations. But I think actually people in this country, are getting on with their daily lives.
Today's budget, income tax, housing, stamp duty, education, the NHS, those are things that make a real difference and that's also what the chancellor
has shown today he is focused on.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Nicky Morgan is a conservative member of parliament showing optimism there, although she was in the remain camp and wants more
accountability from the current negotiating team.
Let's turn our attention to Lebanon now where a political flip-flop has shocked the nation. Crowds have greeted Lebanese Prime Minister Saad
Hariri on his return from Saudi Arabia. It was there more than three weeks ago that he told the world he was stepping down because he feared for his
life.
But Lebanon's president refused to accept that resignation, until Mr. Hariri returned home. He was in France in the meantime. And now the prime
minister says he's put the idea on hold. Hariri supporters says the move may have saved Lebanon from an all-out political crisis.
Ben Wedeman is in Beirut. So, first, it's the resignation, then it's the unresignation. What is going on?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a very good question, Hala, and nobody really here knows the answer because I think
what we have seen is the crisis surrounding his resignation on the 4th of November has come to an end. But another political crisis about forming a
new government is just beginning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[15:25:05] WEDEMAN (voice-over): The Lebanese Army on parade, marking the 74th anniversary of the country's independence -- a country once again
thrown into crisis. Finally, back home, outgoing Prime Minister Saad Hariri, who announced his resignation on November 4th from Saudi Arabia,
embraced President Michel Aoun, who claimed Hariri was a hostage while in Riyadh.
Lebanon's army is small by Middle Eastern standard, but earlier this year, with help from Hezbollah, it drove ISIS out of Ersal (ph), a town on the
border with Syria.
(on camera): Since its founding, the Lebanese Republic has endured war and civil war, invasion and occupation, and perhaps more foreign interference
than any country on earth. The resignation of Prime Minister Saad Hariri has sparked a crisis, but to crisis, Lebanon is no stranger.
(on camera): And the drama took a new twist right after the parade, when Hariri, after meeting with President Aoun, agreed to put his resignation on
hold. It remains to be seen if he can come to an agreement with the myriad of political forces here, for most among them, Hezbollah, who's main
backer, Iran, Hariri has accused of destabilizing Lebanon.
Afterwards, thousands of his supporters gathered outside his headquarters, waving the flags of Lebanon, his future movement, and Saudi Arabia, his
main backer. Underscoring the power in Lebanon often depends on outside forces.
Hariri thanked his supporters, promising to remain with them. But we hope he withdraws his resignation, says driver, (inaudible), because without
him, the country comes to a halt. When he submitted his resignation, we were lost. But others worry if he can't form a government, crisis could
lead to conflict.
Of course, I'll be optimistic if he remains prime minister, says (inaudible), but if he doesn't, there will be war.
It will take some fancy political footwork by Lebanon's leader to keep this country away from the abyss.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WEDEMAN: And of course, Hala, at this point, the question is, is Saad Hariri going to be able to simply go back to being prime minister of the
same government, or is he going to try to reform his government perhaps without the participation of Hezbollah, in which case we could be back into
another political crisis -- Hala.
GORANI: And another one. Thanks very much, Ben Wedeman, in Beirut.
A lot more to come this evening, Vladimir Putin plays host to decide Syria's fate, but the names he kept off the guest list may say even more
about how he sees the country's future. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Clearly not with every player involved, but with some of them, the future of Syria is being drafted on
the banks of the Black Sea.
The leaders of Iran and Turkey flew to Russian President Vladimir Putin's turf to hold a summit. They're calling for Syria's stakeholders to hold a
dialogue ahead of drafting a new constitution.
The summit comes just a day after Mr. Putin met with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, but Iran's president insists Syria's opposition will have
a voice in its future.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASSAN ROUHANI, PRESIDENT OF IRAN (through translator): Objective of this meeting was the start and the setup of a Syrian - of an intra-Syrian
Congress including all religions and ethnic backgrounds from across the area, whether those who are part of the current government or those who are
the opposition.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, that was the president of Iran, speaking from Sochi, Russia. Our Matthew Chance reports from Moscow. Matthew?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, after years of Russian airstrikes on Syria, turning the tide of the conflict in favor
of its ally Bashar al-Assad, Russian diplomacy is now taking center stage in a bid to forge a political settlement to that long-running war.
The leaders of Iran and Turkey holding key talks with their Russian host Vladimir Putin on the future of Syria. President Putin telling his
counterparts that, without their stance, the ceasefires between the warring factions, the de-escalation zones allowing in humanitarian aid, all
orchestrated by Russia, would not have been possible.
There were calls at the summit, also held in the Russian city of Sochi, for an international plan to rebuild Syria devastated after years of conflict.
In a joint statement, they agreed for a joint congress to be held in Russia about Syria's constitution and to discuss fresh elections, in which Bashar
al-Assad, accused by the UN, of course, of using chemical weapons in Syria, will be allowed to stand.
The summit came just a day after President Assad himself traveled to Russia where he was photographed, embracing a smiling Vladimir Putin and thanking
him for ensuring "the territorial integrity of Syria."
In a flurry of diplomatic activity from Russia, President Putin briefed the US president Donald Trump on phone on his meeting with Assad. But US
representatives were not invited to the summit with the Turkish and Iranian leaders.
Critiques say that shows how sidelined the US has become on Syria and how Vladimir Putin has thrust Russia to the center of that country's future.
Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, check out Facebook page for more, Facebook.com/HalaGoraniCNN. We'll post some of our show's content on
there. And also check out my twitter feed, @HalaGorani.
Let's turn to US politics and some very confusing signals from the Trump administration about the media business. Yesterday, we told you, President
Trump made comments about the Justice Department suit to stop AT&T's acquisition of Time Warner.
The government claimed the deal would harm consumers. Here's what Mr. Trump said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to get involved in litigation, but, personally, I've always felt that that was a
deal that's not good for the country. I think your pricing is going to go up. I don't it's a good deal for the country, but I'm not going to get
involved, this litigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, he says he won't get involved and then actually expressed an opinion. Of course, Time Warner is the parent company of CNN.
And while Mr. Trump may be critical of that deal, elsewhere he's opening the door for big telecoms to have much greater influence over the Internet.
US regulators are aiming to overturn something called net neutrality. They say it will make the Web more competitive. A lot of people say that is not
true at all, that it will harm consumers.
Samuel Burke is going to break this story down for us. So, a lot of people here, net neutrality, think this is complicated, I don't understand the
concept. What does net neutrality mean?
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY CORRESPONDENT: It is very simple. And even if you don't live in the US, you should pay attention
because it could affect wherever you are.
[15:35:08] Net neutrality simply means that there's a fast lane and a slow lane for the Internet. So, let's say, Netflix wants to get their shows
faster to you, they pay your Internet service provider to get into the fast lane and, of course, that cost will be passed on to you. So, it makes it
more expensive for you.
But the real problem that many experts see is that if there's going to be a Netflix competitor and they can't get into the fast lane because they don't
have the money, well, then there won't be a Netflix competitor that will also keep prices high for you if you don't have other startups the way
Netflix used to be coming in because they have so much money that they can just get in a faster and faster lane. It's really that simple.
GORANI: Currently, there are rules to prevent this.
BURKE: That's right. Under the Obama administration, they made it so, apps and other Web services, that pretty much everybody has to stay in the
same lane. That way, the Internet service providers aren't choosing the winners based on the amount of money they're getting. You're choosing the
winners based on which service that you think is best and maybe keep it.
GORANI: Yes. And what about if an Internet service provider, for instance, owned the streaming company and wants to slow down a competitive
streaming company? Can they do that if this is overturned?
BURKE: Right now, if this is overturned, which it looks like it will be because it's going to be a party-line vote, that would make its own
Internet service company could choose that streaming service over there.
But it's interesting because you're really getting a contradiction here. On the one hand, this is likely to hurt consumers, Hala. That's what
almost all of the experts say.
But on the other hand, you have the Trump administration - so, same administration, same government, two very different ideologies, it seems,
because they're saying, well, AT&T, this Time Warner merger, proposed merger with our parent company would be bad because it can increase
consumer prices.
But on this other issue of net neutrality, even though many think it will increase prices, they're saying, well, OK -
GORANI: But also access. Also, access to new startups and that kind of thing.
BURKE: And what's so ironic here is that a lot of the companies that are actually promoting this, they've been startups themselves and they want to
keep the Internet neutral. But some of them have been paying to get into the fast lanes in certain countries.
They don't want to have to pay. They would actually rather keep it that way not only because they used to be startups, but because it costs them
more money. They have to charge you more. They'd prefer to keep it flat.
GORANI: Thanks very much, Samuel Burke, on this. And you'll be with Richard Quest at the top of the hour to talk about another story you're
following today, which is that massive hack on Uber. That's on "Quest Means Business" in about 23 minutes' time. So, we'll see you then. Thanks
very much, Samuel.
Still to come tonight. A US Senate race is now a he said/she said between the president and his daughter. How Democrats are driving a wedge - a
family wedge in the race against Roy Moore.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: As women around the world speak out about harassment and assault, the US president is casting doubts on their claims in a very high-profile
case in America.
Multiple women say Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore assaulted, abused or pursued them when they were as young as 14 years old.
[15:40:08] The Republican denies the claims, but some party leaders have denounced him. They're saying we believe the accusers. You should step
aside, you should step down.
But the US president, after having stayed silent for quite a long time, had this to say yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, he denies it. Look, he denies it. He totally denies it. He says it didn't happen. He said 40
years ago, this did not happen.
Let me just tell you, Roy Moore denies it. That's all I can say, he denies it.
And by the way, he totally denies it.
Well, he denies. I mean, Roy Moore.
And by the way, he gives a total denial. He totally denies it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was the US president backing Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore over the words of his many accusers.
We now go live to New York. Our White House reporter Jeremy Diamond is there. And what's interesting, Jeremy, is that the president's own
daughter has tweeted that she believes Roy Moore's accuser and that there is "a special place in hell" for people who abuse children and then her
father said something quite different.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That's right. A big break in the Trump family on this very delicate issue, of course. The president
not only distancing himself from his daughter's comments about Roy Moore, but also distancing himself from national Republican leaders, including
Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, the national Republican Party committee headquarters in Washington, the Senate Republican campaign arm.
All of them have distanced themselves and or cut contact with Roy Moore. The president deciding to take an opposite tack. Yesterday, all but
endorsing the Alabama Republican who's now been accused of sexually molesting a 14-year-old, accused of sexually assaulting a 16-year-old and
making unwanted advances to other teenage girls.
So, this is a situation that we're facing now, is the president choosing to give more credence to Roy Moore's denials of those allegations, multiple
allegations by different women who did not know each other rather than giving any credence to the allegations by the women themselves.
A lot of this is a reflection of the political calculus that Trump faces as he stares down tax reform and other legislative hurdles. Fifty-Two
Republicans versus fifty-one Republicans in the Senate is going to make a difference and that's why Trump has decided to go where he is.
GORANI: Yes. It sure has. But if you look at polls, they're interesting. This is the latest Quinnipiac University poll that was released today,
Jeremy. Sixty percent of voters say Roy Moore should be expelled from the Senate if he wins. Among Republicans, 33 percent believe he should be
expelled if he wins.
Even if the president believes it's in his political best interest to support Roy Moore in this race, it's still a risky political bet, right?
You have a third of Republicans who say this guy should be thrown out if he's elected.
DIAMOND: It certainly is. But, again, we've seen this president make decisions not based on the general political consensus in the country, but
based on how his own political base is actually thinking.
It's something that's driven many decisions in his presidency and it appears to be driving this one. A lot of our reporters on the ground in
Alabama seem to signal that the folks who are Trump base voters, who are Roy Moore supporters are sticking with Roy Moore and a lot of people saying
they disbelieve the allegations because of that.
But, again, there is a question about these Republicans who, for example, voted for Luther Strange in the Republican primary against Raymore, whether
they're going to vote for Roy Moore, vote for Doug Jones, the Democrat, or perhaps not vote at all.
GORANI: Jeremy Diamond, live in New York, thanks very much. The growing sexual harassment scandal has now reached Disney.
John Lasseter, chief creative officer of Pixar and Disney Animations, is taking a leave of absence over what he calls "missteps." In an internal
memo obtained by CNN, Lasseter apologizes to anyone who was on the receiving end of a "unwanted hug" or any other gesture they felt crossed
the line.
Plenty to discuss here with my next two guests - veteran foreign correspondent and "Daily Mail" columnist Dame Ann Leslie is with me here in
the studio. Thanks for being with us.
Journalist Sarah Gosling joins us via Skype from Plymouth, England as well.
Ann Leslie, you caused quite a stir. You are on British program the other day and you basically said, look, you can't call yourself a feminist and
then cry if someone taps you on the knee, that those two things are mutually exclusive. But are they really?
DAME ANN LESLIE, "DAILY MAIL" COLUMNIST: Yes, they are. I think, I mean, I'm getting very fed up with my gender to speak out. I mean, I'm a very
old lady. So, I've been through all of this.
Every single time, some oaf tried to get off with me -on one occasion, I actually stubbed a cigarette on his arm.
I'm now beginning to think that the feminists are totally confused because they say being a strong woman is important, it terrifies men and all that.
Then they say, he tried to get off with me and they start crying. You can't do both.
[15:45:11] GORANI: But I consider myself a strong woman. At the same time, I'd rather someone not groped me at work. Why are those two things
mutually exclusive?
LESLIE: No, it's just simply that the - at first, when it started all of this, I was totally sympathetic to the -
GORANI: After Harvey Weinstein?
LESLIE: Yes.
GORANI: Right.
LESLIE: Totally - because I've been through that partly because I actually worked in Hollywood for quite a long time, did a lot of showbusiness there.
Then, people like David Niven tried to get off with me, dropped his trousers and all that. So, I knew all about it and it irritated me. I
feel traumatized.
But I think that it's now become hysterical. And I don't like to see women becoming so hysterical and say I'm now - I can't do this, I can't look at
men, and there's a very silly article saying I'm scared of men all the time.
GORANI: Well, I think you may be, in fact, referencing Sarah Gosling's article.
LESLIE: Yes.
GORANI: Sarah Gosling, Ann Leslie is talking about the op-ed or the opinion piece you wrote in "The Guardian" couple of days ago.
SARAH GOSLING, JOURNALIST: I think she (INAUDIBLE) slightly. I wasn't saying I'm scared all the time. I was referencing - congratulations if you
don't have, Anne. I'm very jealous of you.
If, say, I'm walking alone home, which involves a number of alleys to me, at night, I am afraid of a strange man who was walking by me because I have
been heckled a lot. And I can totally understand and I do understand an awful lot of what you're saying - I disagree with the term hysterical,
obviously, because of the conversations it has, but I think in places it has gotten somewhat out of control.
But, I agree, a tap on the knee isn't sexual harassment, that's not sexual assault, that could just be a friendly gesture.
But, say, a couple of weeks ago, I was in London and I was walking alone along Shoreditch High Street and it was quite busy. A car drove past me.
And these guys are shouting, oh, you're beautiful, come and get in our car, the kind of standard heckle that women get every day.
And I certainly don't (INAUDIBLE) currently. And they proceeded to scream at me from their car that they were going to rape me and choke me and
followed me down the street for about 200 meters. And that's terrifying.
And the thing that I am worried about, and I'm sure a lot of people are, just to finish very quickly -
GORANI: Yes.
GOSLING: - is that the minor gestures, when you anger someone who's making minor gestures, there's something a lot uglier buried underneath.
GORANI: OK. Sarah, I just - Anne, you were having trouble hearing Sarah. What she was saying was, essentially, she was walking down the street in
Shoreditch or something and that men heckled at her, followed her for 200 meters and that this very threatening behavior is something that shouldn't
be tolerated anymore.
But if it was tolerated a few decades ago, so what? Many other terrible things were tolerated several decades, but we've evolved.
LESLIE: Yes, absolutely. I mean, there's a wonderful first line of a book called "The Go-Between" by Ian Foster where one of the characters say, they
did things differently in the old country, the old way. In other words, you just - things were different when we were young.
Now, when I was young, and I think Sarah is young, of course, you'd put up with it quite a lot. And what I didn't like is the way it is made to seem
that every woman who has somebody putting his hand on her knee is traumatized.
GORANI: But I'm not sure it's fair to say that women say they're traumatized when a man -
LESLIE: They're saying that.
GORANI: They're saying that this is a sign of disrespect towards -
LESLIE: Yes, of course, it is.
GORANI: And, therefore, stop it.
LESLIE: Well, stop it. But don't get hysterical, which is just what people are doing.
GORANI: Yes.
LESLIE: I mean, it is quite bizarre.
GORANI: And I wanted to ask Sarah about - we've seen these men accused. Not yet necessarily of misdeeds that has been proved, but that have been
accused lose their jobs.
We've seen Charlie Rose, for instance, one of the most prominent newscasters in America. Others, Louis CK who was a comedian, so that's
entirely a different industry. This is all post-Harvey Weinstein where the floodgates have opened.
I want your opinion, Sarah, on how men who are accused should be handled?
GOSLING: It's a difficult one because, obviously, it completely depends situation by situation. If rape has been alleged, that is an incredibly
serious crime and that has to be taken as serious as any other class A offense would be taken in that situation. You would expect suspension at
the very least.
[15:50:04] But as Anne is saying, if it is something like an inappropriate touch on the shoulder, I don't think someone ought to be fired for that,
but it, obviously, ought to be looked into.
It's this entire spectrum of potentially assault, alleged assault. It has to be taken as a spectrum, I think. I don't think - this is what I am
saying -
GORANI: But, Sarah, one of the things you wrote was, finally, the pitchforks are out and the pitchforks are on our own side. What did you
mean by that?
GOSLING: I was taking it (INAUDIBLE) the idea of this mob. And I think the social media mob in this sense is good. I don't think - I think a lot
of (INAUDIBLE) in a number of cases where perhaps they oughtn't to.
But I think the fact that finally the conversation is on the side of the women - this is three women right now having discussions. That in itself
is almost revolutionary. It hasn't really happened before.
When Jo Brand had to speak out, she was one woman on a panel of seven or six men. To my mind, that's (INAUDIBLE).
GORANI: Sarah, I just
LESLIE: I hate (INAUDIBLE) coming up with things like pitchforks. I think it was violence. It's disgusting.
GORANI: I don't think she mean that literally. But, Ann Leslie, do you concede that, in this end, will be a positive thing? We need to move on to
another chapter where it's not acceptable for powerful to harass women sexually.
LESLIE: Of course, I agree with that. I mean, but what I don't agree with is this sort of lip-smacking excitement about bringing men down. We must
stop that.
Of course, we're destroying men's career when they may only have been a little bit cheeky. I really am getting upset on behalf of men. And I have
suffered from men too. That these are people whose lives and everything are going to be destroyed by a lot nasty little girls going on about how -
GOSLING: Anne, (INAUDIBLE) they are just making things up to be vindictive where this is something which could be an enormous thing which women
(INAUDIBLE) and they aren't seeking justice.
GORANI: Sarah, I really - unfortunately, we have to leave it here. But I wish we had, frankly, one more hour. Sarah Gosling, Ann Leslie, thanks so
much to both of you for joining in on this important discussion. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: Forget lush green fields and rich fertile soil. A scientist in Japan is in revolutionizing farming, I should say. He's leaving the farm
behind it. It sounds hard to imagine, but it's possible. Here's Will Ripley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Meet Dr. Yuichi Mori. He's a technical physicist with a green card. While he spent 30 years
developing artificial organs, Mori had the idea to apply the same science to farming.
So, he created a soil free farming method using a film called Imec, which is a hydrogel membrane, similar to what would be used for dialysis.
[15:55:05] YUICHI MORI, CEO, MEBIOL, INC.: Plants respond very good to the property of this hemodialysis membrane. I think the plant and the human
being is the same living lives. So, that is a very interesting thing.
RIPLEY: With countless nano-sized pores, the film allows nutrients and water to pass through to the plant, but it keeps germs and viruses out.
Even if you touch it, the bottom of the film is wet, but the top of it is dry. The plants can also develop more ultrafine roots, which Mori says
allows them to have higher nutritional content and it makes his tomatoes sweeter.
Ten years ago, Mori saw his first plants sprout from film. And today, it's an idea growing far beyond the lab.
Here, you can see the fully functioning system where a nutrient-rich solution is pumped into the film-lined plant beds (ph). This all requires
just 100 milliliters of water per day per plant, which Mori says is 90 percent less water than normal farming.
So far, with 150 farms, mostly in Japan and some in China and the UAE, they've produced 3,000 tons of tomatoes per year, equaling $50 million on
the wholesale market, according to Mori. And he thinks it's all thanks to plants and their amazing ability to adapt.
MORI: For the plants, this film is a positive experience, I think for the plant. But they have the adaptability with the environment condition.
They could adapt to this film, I think.
Will Ripley, CNN, Tokyo.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: I'm Hala Gorani. Thanks for watching the program. "Quest Means Business" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
END
