Return to Transcripts main page
World Calls On N. Korea to Give Up Nukes; Interview with Japanese Foreign Minister Taro Kono. Aired 2-2:30p ET
Aired November 30, 2017 - 14:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN ANCHOR: Tonight, the world calls on North Korea to give up its nukes but is that wishful thinking? In an exclusive
interview the Japanese Foreign Minister tell me North Korea is not ready for dialogue yet.
TARO KONO, FOREIGN MINISTER OF JAPAN: I think they may not be ready now but they will have to dialogue in the future and we shouldn't budge. We
should continue to put the pressure on them.
AMANPOUR: Also ahead, British MPs slam President Trump's anti Muslim retweets and they tell him to delete his account. Plus, she fled Nazi
Germany and grew up to be a famous children's author. Her story's beloved by millions, I visit 94 year-old Judith where she wrote them, here at home
AMANPOUR: Good evening everyone and welcome to the program. I'm Christine Amanpour in London.
AMANPOUR: There it is. The first image of the missile launched by North Korea this week and they confirm what was expected. It is indeed a bigger,
more advanced missile by Pyongyang than ever before. America's ambassador to the U.N. Nikki Haley says, the move brings the world closer to war and
she sends this warning.
NIKKI HALEY, AMERICAN U.N. AMBASSADOR: If war does come, it will be because of continued acts of aggression like we witnessed yesterday. And
if war comes, make no mistake, the North Korea regime will be utterly destroyed.
AMANPOUR: Japan, which is America's key ally in the region says the missile landed in the Sea of Japan within it's exclusive economic zone.
Tokyo is entirely dependant on American protection and unlike any other country; it knows all too well the horrors of a nuclear attack.
In an exclusive interview, the Japanese Foreign Minister, Tar? K?no tells me that despite North Korea's recklessness, he hopes that it's not too late
to convince them to give up their nuclear arsenal. Foreign Minister K?no, welcome to the program.
KONO: Thank you, thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: Can I ask you to react to the U.S. envoy to the U.N. Nikki Haley saying that the North Korea missile launch brought the world closer to war.
Is that how you see it form your perspective in Japan?
KONO: Yes. I believe North Korea, against the will of the International Society, the recklessly shot a new missile again and I think they are just
making the International Society in putting in danger. They shouldn't have done that, so Nikki Haley was right.
AMANPOUR: So, what do you expect next because this is something that the North Koreans said they would do, continue to perfect their long range
missiles, their reentry capability. and they've also said the plan - they want to have an over ground test of a nuclear device. Is that what you
KONO: Well in order to prevent that, I think International Society, International Community need to maximize the pressure on North Korea by
increasing the economic sanction against them. I think we have to send them a clear message even if they continue to go along the path, there's
going to be no bright future for North Korea.
AMANPOUR: The world has been sending that message for a long time now. You yourself met with the North Korean Foreign Minister during the recent
Asian meetings, I believe it was in (INAUIDIBLE) you met. What sense did you get from him? Are they ready to dialogue? We understand that they
don't want to sit down with the United States. Will they talk to you?
KONO: Well I think they are suffering from the economic sanction and I think we need to keep on pressure. I think they may not be ready now but
they will have to come to dialogue in the future and we shouldn't budge. We should continue to put the pressure on them.
AMANPOUR: Now, you say we shouldn't budge but you have all said and the United States has said that denuclearization of North Korea and the
peninsular is an absolute must as a condition for talks and as an end game.
But we're hearing now from the real experts in the United States that because of their amazing technological advances, including this latest
missile launch that the west ay have to live with a nuclear Korea. The world, your region may have to live with a nuclear career, and the best one
can hope for is the parents, and that kind of posture. Do you agree with that?
TARO KONO, JAPANESE FOREIGN MINISTER: I totally disagree with that. United States, Japan, South Korea, China, Russia every country agreed that
we need to eradicate the nuclear weapons from Korean peninsula. North Korea depend their oil supply on China, and if China calls on the pipeline
to North Korea the regime with collapse.
AMANPOUR: What makes you think that China is in any way inclined to cut off oil to the extent that the regime collapses as you just said. China
apparently doesn't want to see a collapsed regime that gives more opportunity for U.S. presence in the region, much closer to its border if
North Korea's gone.
KONO: Well I don't think any country wants to change the regime in North Korea. We just wanted to put the pressure on the regime so that they see
the mistakes that they are making and if they change their mind I think everyone will be happy to come to the dialogue.
AMANPOUR: Some Chinese diplomats feel that The United States, the West has not - had not taken North Korea's capabilities as seriously as they should
have done for a long time, for many years now. And it's only because the missile technology and the nuclear technology can now directly threaten The
United States apparently. That they're taking more seriously. Do you agree with that, do you agree with that assessment?
KONO: Well, we made a mistake as I said in six party talks. We should've taken North Korea's bad intentions seriously. So we shouldn't repeat the
same mistake again, this time.
AMANPOUR: How do you read President Trump's sort of isolation maybe withdraw from the region. How does Japan, how does the region, the allies
interpret President Trump who says he doesn't want necessarily a regional of free trade. Actually thinks that - that is just to the U.S. determent.
He wants to do one on one trade packs. Is that going to fly and how does all of that actually help or hurt the American worker?
KONO: I think it would be better for U.S. industry, U.S. farmers to come back to TPP. If United States wants to have bilateral trade relationship,
I mean bilateral trade agreement creates winner and loser in every sector, and it doesn't work that well.
AMANPOUR: And just so that I'm clear, how does the American worker benefit most from a regional trade agreement or from a series of attempts at bi-
KONO: Definitely multi - multi lateral trade agreement. So at the end of the day United States industry and workers will benefit if United States
stays in the multilateral trading system.
AMANPOUR: You studied in the United States you have a strong network of friends and colleagues, people on Capital Hill. What is your mission now
as Foreign Minister? What will you be advising the United States about the region, about engagement?
KONO: Asia is now the fast growing region and the stability and prosperity in - in the Pacific is directly connected to the growth in - economic
growth in The United States. So U.S. needs to be engaged in Asia so we will - we will talk to United States and we have to say something the
American Administration may not want to hear, but as a strong ally we can say anything we need to say and The United States should tell us what they
have to tell us, and we're still going to be a very strong ally.
AMANPOUR: And what may they not want to hear?
KONO: Things like leaving TPP is a mistake, we have been telling the colleagues in Washington about this, and before the Trump Administration we
always have - we always have had our Japan specialist in Washington D.C. who can interpret between two governments. But now we have to talk
directly to the Washington administration and I think it is good exercise for us in Japan.
AMANPOUR: You say that because you don't have an Assistant Secretary of State in Washington that is - that is responsible for the region?
KONO: No there always have been in Washington the - we had our friends of Japan who understands Japanese culture or how the Japanese government works
and some of them even speak Japanese so if there's a miscommunication between Washington and Tokyo, those Japan specialists can come in between
and interpret but now the Trump Administration don't have them in government.
So we really have to talk to the Washington government directly and that's a good exercise for us and that's a good exercise for Washington, D.C. So
we are now talking directly without interpreters and that's probably the first time after the war.
AMANPOUR: Well that is really interesting because how do you interpret the tweets then Mr. Foreign Minister. President Trump operates on tweets and
he makes policy on tweets. How are you interpreting that?
KONO: Well, we have different connections. I speak with Secretary Taylorson, my colleague minister (Inaudible) talk to Secretary Mattis, so
we have many channels that can talk to each other directly. If there's a different opinion we can talk to each other in different channels so there
shouldn't be any misunderstanding between two countries.
AMANPOUR: I see, your interpreters are your counter parts trying to figure out potentially what the president is saying or what he means. So can I
ask you, are you scratching your head in the foreign ministry there in Tokyo?
Wondering why President Trump is having a tweet war with Prime Minister May, I'm speaking to from London and it is absolutely shocking to the
British people President Trump's tweets and support of one of the most vile, racist, nationalist movements in British history.
KONO: Well, we are able to talk to our friends in Washington, D.C. and get a feeling what's really happening, so.
AMANPOUR: What advice would you give the prime minister of Britain while she tries to make out why her strongest ally's on the war path, on the
twitter war path?
KONO: It's a difficult question, we'll see how U.K. handles this situation, I think we will- if that happens to Japan I think we are ready
to manage the bilateral relationship.
AMANPOUR: A diplomatic conundrum and you answered that very diplomatically, Foreign Minister Kono, thank you so much for joining us
from Tokyo today.
KONO: Thank you very much.
AMANPOUR: So U.S. allies all across Europe are making headlines criticizing President Trump's twitter support of that fringe British hate
group called Britain First speaking in Jordan today, Prime Minister May also again said, "I am very clear that retweeting from Britain First was
the wrong thing to do.
Even after President Trump lashed out at her, tweeting "Teresa, don't focus on me, focus on the destructive, radical Islamic terrorism that is taking
place within the United Kingdom. All of this is uniting British political parties who all say the president is spreading divisive poison.
And they are telling Trump to delete his twitter account, earlier I spoke to a leading British M.P. Yvette Cooper who shares the bi partisan
parliament security committee and I asked her if Britain should cancel President Trump's planned state visit.
YVETTE COOPER, BRITISH M.P.: I think the problem for us is to roll out a red carpet at the moment could well become to provide a platform for
further tweets or further devices, statements that cause a problem for our community is here in the United Kingdom and I don't think it would be right
for us to let that happen.
And I think it was deeply unfortunate that the president decided to stand by his tweets, effectively to stand by this far white extremist group and
to challenge the prime minister of Great Britain publicly in a tweet overnight for us. And I think that was deeply unfortunate.
The other thing, I really would urge the president to remove those tweets and to understand why it matters to us if he is giving a platform for
albeit a small but nevertheless a very unpleasant and nasty (inaudible) organization.
AMANPOUR: And she said silence in this face was not an option. So how badly are President Trump's anti Muslim retweets going over? Even Nigel
Farage, the anti immigration Trump cheerleader says "I do think these videos are very bad taste and he showed poor judgment.
Joe Mullhall is a senior researcher for Britain's anti extremist group called, Hope not Hate and he's joining me here in the studio now. I guess
Mr. Mulhall, you are as shocked as everybody when you saw these Tweets coming out and these videos?
JOE MULHALL, SENIOR RESEARCHER HOPE NOT HATE: Absolutely, I mean we were in the office of Hope not Hate were absolutely staggered. I mean, that's
such a marginal but such an extreme group. Strolling on to the international stage by President Trump by that, there is no other word but
AMANPOUR: So marginal thrown on to the stage. Are you saying these people, I don't know, couldn't get a group on to the streets to support
them? What what hold do they have on the British public?
MULHALL: Yes, I mean this is an incredibly marginal group. Off line, in terms of what they can mobilize on the streets in the UK, we're talking
tiny numbers. Most of their demonstrations, we're talking dozens of people. What they're known for is not their numbers but their extremist.
This a group that is best know for invading Mosque. For doing so called Christian patrols through heavily Muslim areas. So it's not the numbers,
they've always struggled for that. With that said, they do have a large on line presence. But that's never mobilized off line really.
AMANPOUR: So how big? I mean comparatively, is it is it shockingly big on line? Is this going to help them?
MULHALL: Oh, absolutely. Yes, I mean, it is shockingly large. I mean, it's Facebook has nearly 2 million likes. Which makes it the largest (ph)
organization on Facebook in the UK, in that sense. And what's so terrifying about this is, is the platform the international platform.
President Trump has granted them.
I mean, if we look at the person he re-Tweeted, Jayda Fransen, who is the deputy leader. Her Twitter has exploded overnight. Now it's been growing
through the year, as it was, but it's been putting tens of thousands in the last few hours.
And, of course, the two leaders of the organization have been on press and television all over the works. He's given them a platform they would have
never dreamed of, and we wouldn't have dreamed of just yesterday, you know.
AMANPOUR: So this obviously begs the question because, you know, on line is the area where all these violent extremist are groomed. Whether it's
ISIS or whoever are the radical Islamic terrorist, or whether it's these (cring)(ph) hate anti Muslim groups. So I guess, tell me how, how
impactful, how much grooming could be done? How much, you know, (ph) or support could these people get in terms of actually affecting people on to
the streets now?
MULHALL: Yes, I mean, it's incredibly worrying. I mean, in sense in some senses this is a perfect case study of how this is actually done on line.
I mean the videos that President Trump re-Tweeted, we've been looking at on line for several months. And the way it works is they go through these on
line anti Muslim networks.
Usually smaller (ph) people and they get shared and then someone slightly more important shares them. And they get a larger audience and then they
reach something we would call a super sharer. Someone who has a large enough platform to reach people beyond the bubble, if you will, the anti
Muslim bubble. And then, usually it goes so far I mean in terms of it reaching the President we would have thought that was impossible.
But what that does is, it makes people like (ph) and anti extremist of organizations work much harder. Because when we do work in communities and
we knock on doors, for example, and say you may be angry for all sorts of reasons but something like Britain first is not the answer they're extreme.
They can now turn around and say, well President Trump has re-Tweeted them how extreme can they be?
AMANPOUR: That and, Joe Mulhall, are you concerned in this very divisive atmosphere that we've been living in over the last several years about, and
about immigration. You know, whether it's (ph) that the United States the rest of Europe. Certainly politicians are worried that this is going to
rip the fabric of British society, you know, dangerously apart.
MULHALL: Hugely, I mean, this couldn't have come at a worst time in fact. I mean if we look at an increadibly difficult summer here in the UK. That
a number terrorist attacks we've seen a huge polarization, I mean, Hope not Hate does a huge yearly report on (ph) latitudes called fear and hope.
And this year, the poling made a very very clear distinction that we are seeing a polarization. And something like this is only going to serve to
make things much much worse. And we just have to hope that doesn't have repercussions in communities on the group here in the UK.
AMANPOUR: It's an extraordinary thing and I think people just thought Tweets were Tweets but you have put in vivid Technicolor the danger of
these things. Joe Mulhall of Hope not Hate, thanks so much for jointing us.
MULHALL: Thanks, Christiane.
AMANPOUR: Now the resurgent's of far right views can trigger horrors from the past for many. Some say though, the best revenge for hatred is showing
kindness and love. If that's the case, adored children's author Judith Carr is certainly winning on that front. She is 94 years old.
A Jewish child who was born in Weimar, Germany. She escaped Hitler with her family and ended up here is Britain. When I met her in her London
home, the still sprightly writer proved that she's going strong as she practically raced me up the stairs.
START VIDEO CLIP
AMANPOUR: Sure you're speedier than me, Judith, up these stairs.
JUDITH CARR, AUTHOR: It's I'm use to them and I can pull myself up.
AMANPOUR: How often, how many times a day?
CARR: Not going to say.(ph)
AMANPOUR: Dozens? Oh my gosh.
AMANPOUR: It keeps you fit and healthy.
CARR: It's good for the brain, they say.
AMANPOUR: Good for the brain?
AMANPOUR: I'm going to stay in a house with stairs then.
END VIDEO CLIP
AMANPOUR: And so we end tonight the way many parents and children finish their day with a bedtime story. Judith Kerr has sold more than 10 million
copies of the stories and the illustrations that she made up for her own children. The best known and best loved? Why "The Tiger Who Came to Tea"
AMANPOUR: What was it then all those years ago that made you think a tiger - a scary, big, monster tiger was somehow going to be a character that
children fell in love with?
KERR: Well because I didn't think a scary, bitey (ph), bad tiger. I thought a soft, furry, orange, stripy, black-and-white tiger and that's
what my daughter thought as well when we saw them in the zoo. And I didn't mention the fact that they bit people. I didn't think about it, but she
used to say "talk the tiger." She was two and very bossy, and it would stay very boring at home. And so we both thought it was about somebody
came, and the tiger seemed as good as idea as anything really.
AMANPOUR: And there, 5 million copies were born. I mean, this book itself sold 5 million copies around the world. Did you even dream that such a
thing was possible when you were talking the tiger to Tasey when she was just two years old?
KERR: It never occurred to me. I didn't do the book until about five years later because I was so busy with the children. I was pleasantly
surprised when they said they'd publish it.
AMANPOUR: What do you hope families have got from these books?
KERR: Well I'm terribly pleased they like them. What more can one ask for really? And I never dreamt anything like that. What happened to me? I
wanted originally like everybody who goes to art school to be a painter, and I just wanted to draw. I still do. It's the one thing I want to do,
and my mother got quite worried about me. She and my brother also who was a lawyer and obviously concerned.
AMANPOUR: That you would never be able to make a living?
KERR: No, exactly. Her only hope was to marry someone very who'd keep me (ph).
AMANPOUR: Well you did get married.
KERR: And he did keep me.
AMANPOUR: And he did keep you.
KERR: I - well because you make no money with picture books to start with.
AMANPOUR: And in the end, you did actually make a very good living with all these books and all your drawings.
KERR: Yes, to everybody's surprise, particularly mine (ph).
AMANPOUR: And possibly to the surprise of your parents and history, if I could go back all those years when you were born in Weimar, Germany -
AMANPOUR: - and you were a kid at the time just before the war was about to start, just before Hitler. What was that like? What was your childhood
like in Germany at that time? Your father I believe was a satirical writer and got on the wrong side of Adolf Hitler.
KERR: Yes, he warned against him and he mocked him which is the worst thing you can do very early on, and so he was warned by an unknown
policeman who just rang up one day and said "get out at once. They're trying to take away your passport." And this was before Hitler had
actually come to par, and he took the next train out of Germany.
My mother didn't know what to do because they hadn't even had time to talk, and she joined him in Prague and he said he wanted my mother and brother
and me out of Germany before the elections because he thought Hitler would hang onto us to get him back. And the day after the elections on the 6th
of March we heard from a house keeper who'd stayed behind that they came to our house at 8 o'clock in the morning to demand all our passports.
KERR: So my 94 years are because of that, and I wouldn't be here otherwise. Incredible foresight and luck.
AMANPOUR: What does it take to keep you going at 94 in this and the way you're doing now. More books, more drawings, more projects?
KERR: Well I love to draw. That's really all it is. I was very, very happily married for 52 years and obviously I still miss my husband but the
only compensation really is that I don't cook .
AMANPOUR: Sew, knit?
KERR: Don't have anyone to chat with. The first in my life I can spend 24 hours a day drawing. So that's at least something. And so, that's what I
do. One would be rather stupid not to, at the age 94 not to feel that possibly there wasn't unlimited time left.
AMANPOUR: Well, do you know what? You are incredibly youthful and young of spirit. And, thank you very much Judith Kerr for talking to us.
KERR: Thank you for talking to me.
AMANPOUR: And what an indomitable spirit. That is it for our program tonight. Remember you can always listen to our podcasts, see us online at
amanpour.com and follow me on Facebook and Twitter. Thank you for watching and goodbye from London.