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Hala Gorani Tonight
Trump: Gillibrand "would do anything" for contributions; Voters head to polls in high-stakes political race in Alabama; Roger Waters talks politics; al-Mansour: End of movie ban in Saudi Arabia is "beautiful"
Aired December 12, 2017 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[15:00:32]
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani live from CNN London.
Tonight, racing to the finish line. We're just hours away from finding out who the winner is in Alabama's bitter Senate campaign.
Also, ahead, the man accused of an attempted terror attack in New York City posted cryptic comments online just before acting. We will get the latest
details.
Also, this hour, this --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People need loving. They need educating. They're very uneducated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's the verdict of Pink Floyd front man, Roger Waters on Donald Trump supporters. My wide-ranging interview with him later in the show.
You don't want to miss it.
It is a stark choice to say the least with incredibly high stakes. Polls will close just hours from now in Alabama where voters are picking a new
U.S. senator. A Democrat normally wouldn't stand a chance in this heavily Republican state in the deep south, but this is no normal election.
Here you see Republican candidate, Roy Moore, making a grand entrance at a polling place on horseback. He is an accused child molester trying to
enter the halls of Congress just as a wave sexual harassment claims have forced several resignations there.
Moore is running against the Democrat Doug Jones. If Jones wins, the Republican majority in the Senate would shrink to just two seats.
President Donald Trump has become the campaigner-in-chief for Roy Moore, but the race has divided even Republicans across the country. This is a
party that cannot agree on the likes of Roy Moore. It stirred up a lot of controversy along the way.
Let's take you live to Alabama. CNN's Kaylee Hartung is at a polling station in Montgomery. So, what are you hear -- this is d-day basically,
the big vote for this unusual election. What are voters telling you today?
KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Roy Moore's candidacy has put a spotlight on the civil war that's raging in the GOP in Washington, but you
see how that's reflected in the state of Alabama now, Hala, as there are the Republicans who continue to support Moore despite the allegations
against him because his conservative and as he says Christian believes are their beliefs, too, particularly his stance against abortion.
It's a very important issue, if not the most important issue to so many voters in this state. But, also, there are the Republicans who are so
disgusted by him, they are voting for a Democrat, for the first time in their lives. I have heard that from folks here today at this precinct.
Then there are those who we are not hearing from today, Hala. That's because they are Republicans who are choosing to sit this race out. They
can't bring themselves to vote for a Democrat.
A lot of them because Doug Jones is pro-choice. But they can't get on board with Roy Moore given the allegations against him and many other
controversial statements that he has made.
But if we can use this precinct here behind me in the state capital of Alabama as any indicator of what turnout has been today, it is good.
There's been a steady stream of folks coming into this precinct.
As one man told me, a five-minute line, that's something he has never seen here before. He has been voting here all of his adult life. I got off the
phone with the secretary of state's office where they tell me turnout today even higher than they expected.
The leadup to today, the secretary of state was projecting about 20 percent voter turnout. They know those numbers will be higher than that, but they
are seeing energized voters turning up in areas that would benefit both Roy Moore and Doug Jones. It's going to be a long night for us here in Alabama
-- Hala.
GORANI: That's interesting. Because usually higher than expected turnout could -- I mean, in this particular case, in a deeply red conservative
state, could favor the opponent, the challenger, Doug Jones in this case.
HARTUNG: It's true because this is a state where you -- as I mentioned, it's so dependably conservative. As the national media has put such a
spotlight on the state of Alabama, voters telling me that's not something they are used to.
Nobody has given them attention in the past because everyone knew how a race was go going. It would be a bloodbath for a Republican over a
Democrat in each in every case. Today, not the case.
There are no polls we can point to that meet CNN standards to project what we will see tonight. I don't think there's any doubt that this will be
close, based on conversations that I have had with state and local elected officials in this state, people who have been involved in Alabama politics.
[15:05:10] This is something no one here has ever seen before, but a high turnout does seem to signal something positive for Doug Jones.
GORANI: All right. We will wait and see. Kaylee Hartung reporting live from Montgomery, Alabama. Thanks very much, Kaylee.
Now this race has essentially turned into a culture war. Moore's conservative supporters say he defends their faith and values despite the
allegations made against him. While Democrats are appalled that an accused child molester is even in the race at all.
Let's get some perspective from Larry Sabato, director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia. What would it take for Doug Jones
to be elected?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: A miracle, Hala. As many Democrats have said to me maybe Donald Trump is
unpopular as he is will produce a pocket full of miracles for Democrats. We will see. Let's remember, this is about as Republican state as exists
in the United States.
Donald Trump won it by 28 points. Some other Republicans have done even better. So, Roy Moore could end up losing 20 plus points of Donald Trump's
majority and still win. As I say, I think it's close. I think it's competitive.
The people we have checked with who really know Alabama politics are flummoxed. They all just shrugged their shoulders and say, I don't know.
So, that's what we're relying on right now. I don't know.
GORANI: Right. It's an unusual time of year to have a special election. There is no reliable polling. So, we are all going to be waiting for the
results as they come in. It was that carefully, awkwardly staged campaign appearance by Roy Moore on a horseback.
Explain to us. I mean, this is an imagery that I'm sure the candidate would like his supporters to consider represents the real America that they
yearn for. Right? The kind of cowboy riding in on the back of a horse.
It is an unusual sort of -- it's an unusual way to do things. The horse didn't look compliant all the time, by the way.
SABATO: Hala, I'm searching for a word other than unusual myself. The ones I'm thinking of I can't use on television. Let me just say, the
horse, that's something you would expect to see in Wyoming or Montana. Those actually are cowboy states. This is not Alabama, but it is rural
Alabama.
And that's where Roy Moore's votes mainly are. Tonight, you will see some of those deeply red rural counties 70, 75 percent or more for Roy Moore.
But he's going to need them because African-Americans across the black belt, the so-called black belt, which refers to the soil, not the skin
color, will come in 80 percent for Doug Jones.
And a surprising number of moderate Republicans are either not going to vote or vote for Doug Jones or write in someone, and that in effect is a
vote subtracted from Roy Moore's column.
GORANI: And the wife of Roy Moore came to his defense with a remarkable statement about one of their attorneys. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAYLA MOORE, ROY MOORE'S WIFE: Fake news would tell you that we don't care for Jews. I tell you all this because I've seen it. I just want to set
the record straight while they are here, one of our attorneys is a Jew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So that -- I mean, to many ears would sound terribly politically incorrect to define someone primarily by their religion, saying one of our
attorneys is a Jew. Could you put that in context for our international -- how that plays out in a race like the Alabama race right now?
SABATO: What I want international viewers to know is that American is not Alabama and Alabama is not America. What you said is absolutely true.
That is an outrageous formulation. It would be deeply offensive in most places. Unfortunately, it is not yet deeply offensive in Alabama.
GORANI: So, why say something like that, I wonder?
SABATO: Because she doesn't know any better and because Roy Moore has won other races in Alabama doing the very same thing. He's been kicked off at
the state Supreme Court twice, but he has won elections in Alabama, state wide elections.
So, he knows how it's done, but he has never had this kind of focus before. He has had some outrageous statements put on the national media.
[15:10:01] Whether it's that all gay people are sick and need treatment or whether it's every constitutional amendment after the Bill of Rights should
be abolished or that Alabama was better off with slavery.
Honestly, I can't even explain it, Hala, and I certainly won't be able to explain it to an international audience if he actually wins.
GORANI: All right. Larry Sabato, thanks very much. That is the expectation though. It's been in the last two or three yea a very
surprising news cycle. So, we'll be following it very closely. Larry Sabato, as always, pleasure speaking with you this evening.
We are learning more now about the man accused in yesterday's terror attack in New York City underground walkway. According to a criminal complaint,
27-year-old Akayed Ullah, wrote about President Trump on Facebook before the attack saying, quote, "Trump, you failed to protect your nation."
A source tells CNN, Ullah later told investigators that he was inspired by pro-ISIS Christmas attack propaganda. President Trump is blasting
immigration policies he said allowed Ullah to be in the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: There have now been two terrorist attacks in New York City in recent weeks carried out by
foreign nationals here on green cards. The first attacker came through the visa lottery and the second through chain migration. We're going to end
both of them. The lottery system and chain migration, we're going to end them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: President Trump there seizing on a narrative that he in the past has used to justify limiting immigration, especially from Muslim countries.
Let's get more now from CNN's Brynn Gingras in New York. What more do we know about this suspect?
BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're learning a lot, Hala, from the court documents that were filed. He is now federally charged five
different federal charges all related to the terrorist act.
What we're learning a lot about is his motivation. What was his inspiration? He made claims even after waiving his Miranda Rights from the
hospital bed to investigators that he did this for the Islamic State.
He, also, apparently according to these documents posted on Facebook that comment about the president but also his again allegiance to ISIS. We know
that he was radicalized as early as 2014.
You mentioned that Christmas photo. There was propaganda, videos that he was viewing as part of sort of his radicalization process. We know from
sources he didn't necessarily travel overseas to an area and get any specialized training or anything like that. However, we do know that he
was radicalized, again, in 2014 -- Hala.
GORANI: So, after he arrived in the United States?
GINGRAS: Correct. He arrived in the United States a few years prior to that. And you know, one of the interesting things we have also gleaned
from just sources and also these court documents is the bombmaking process. He learned that according to the documents online.
Following those instructional videos as to how to create a bomb. We know he actually collected some of the material while he was working in the area
of the Port Authority, where this bomb was detonated not far from Times Square, brought them to his house, created the bomb and get this, Hala,
traveled on two separate subways for over an hour with that bomb attached to him before he detonated it.
GORANI: All right. Brynn Gingras, thanks very much for that update. We mentioned the immigration status of the suspect. An immigration official
is currently addressing reporters at the White House press briefing. The name is Francis Cissna. Let's listen to what he has to say.
FRANCIS CISSNA, DIRECTOR, U.S. CITIZENSHIP AND IMMIGRATION SERVICES: -- because the criteria are so low, either you have no education at all and
very little skills or you have a minimum education and no skills at all. Since it's a lottery, pretty much anybody on the planet, who is from a
qualified country can take advantage of this.
The State Department in 2003 observed that this low eligibility criteria could lead to exploitation by terrorists. They warned about this in 2003.
The GAO in 2007 echoed that warning. Again, warning that terrorists could take advantage of the Diversity Visa Program.
Also, the program is racked with fraud. In 2003, the State Department 15 years ago noted that the program was rife with pervasive fraud. The fraud,
the low eligibility standards, contribute to potential exploitation by terrorists and other mollified actors.
Bangladesh is an interesting case. That's the country where yesterday's suspect came from. That country was a high user of the visa lottery
program. In fact, in 2007, which was the peak year for that country's use of the visa lottery, 27 percent of the immigrants came through that
program, the visa lottery program.
Uzbekistan, which was the country of origin of the truck driver from October 31st in New York City.
[15:15:08] In 2010, 70 percent of immigrants from Uzbekistan came from the visa lottery program. So, that program is used as a prime avenue for
immigration for many countries.
Finally, let me touch on the subject of chain migration. When I use that word, what I'm talking about is a person who comes to this country and who
in turn employs one of the avenues that I just described, principally family based to sponsor relatives who are in the home country to come and
join him or her.
Because the categories that we have that I just described in family based migration are so extensive, it's not just nuclear family. You also have as
I say adult unmarried children, brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews.
You can sponsor a person like yesterday's alleged terrorist at the extremity of that chain and then that person in turn can sponsor people and
so on and so on indefinitely. Hundreds of thousands of people come into this country every year based on this extended family migration categories.
It is my view, our administration's view, that --
GORANI: All right. An immigration official there, Francis Cissna, updating reporters. They are speaking of some of the immigration programs
in the United States. You remember there was that attack in Lower Manhattan that was blamed on an Uzbek man who entered the United States on
a visa lottery program.
And then there was the Port Authority attempted attack there by a man from Bangladesh originally, who arrived in the United States as a result of
chain migration, though, interestingly, both those individuals, according to officials, were radicalized after their arrival in United States.
So, unclear how limiting chain migration or limiting the visa lottery or the green card lottery program would have any impact with regard to those
particular cases. We have heard a lot from the Trump administration about their desire to limit immigration from certainly parts of the world where
they believe there is a threat.
In those particular cases, it appears as those two individuals might have gone through the radicalization process on U.S. soil.
We will go live to Paris in just a moment. The French president is hosting heavyweights like Michael Bloomberg and Elon Musk at the One Planet Summit.
But can Emmanuel Macron achieve anything without America? Coming up next.
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GORANI: Let's get to Paris now. The French president is trying, without America, to revive the 2015 Climate Accord at the One Planet Summit.
Emmanuel Macron is hosting the summit on an island on the Seine River
And dozens of world leaders and other key officials are taking part. Who is not attending is the U.S. President Donald Trump. Now remember ye
yanked the U.S. out of the landmark deal.
[15:20:05] But before the summit starter, Mr. Macron told CBS News that he believed Mr. Trump would change his mind.
Melissa Bell joins me now live from Paris. You have spoken to another former official who also believes perhaps the U.S. might find its way back
into this accord -- Melissa.
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The entire point, Hala, of today and this was a summit remember that was organized in the wake of that
decision, that announcement by Donald Trump on the first of June about the American withdrawal.
This was a summit that was decided just in the wake of that to try and show that still the financing can be found, still the momentum can be kept in
order that the Paris Accord's very ambitious targets that were signed here two years ago today can still be met.
What was so interesting was to see that despite the American president's absence, there was a huge American delegation made up of people like
Michael Bloomberg, Bill Gates and John Kerry, the former secretary of state, who had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KERRY, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Let me be clear about the American withdrawal. The majority of the states in the United States and
the majority of our cities will live up to Paris. They are going to do everything they can in their power to reduce emissions and to do our part
to live up to the Paris agreement. So, President Trump personally has decided he wants to get out, but the majority of the American people want
to stay in.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Emmanuel Macron paid tribute to that large American delegation, thanking them for being there and explaining that really they had wanted to
come to show that despite the American administration's determination to withdraw from this climate accord, it can't happen technically until 2020,
so after the next American presidential election.
That was something else that gave John Kerry hope today he told us. These Americans have come here today to say, look, we will make up the shortfall.
Michael Bloomberg pointing out that coalition of business leaders and American governors and also city mayors now -- and companies represented
half of the American economy.
He believed that the financing could be found to try and fill the gap left by the United States. This was really about Emmanuel Macron trying to show
that that enormous political capital that he has invested over the course of the last couple years trying to fill the gap, pick up the mantle as the
world's leader on environmental issue is not lost and that there is still some hope that those targets can be met.
He also warned his audience that we are losing the battle for the time being on climate change and that it's essential that the commitments that
were made here in Paris today -- and they were, Hala, fairly substantial financially went towards reminding the world that this could still be done,
but it would take a lot more work on the part of others now that the United States has now withdrawn -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Melissa Bell live in Paris, thanks very much.
Bitcoin, it's pretty inescapable at the moment. The virtual currency has no Central Bank, no government, no regulators. So, on paper, it doesn't
exactly sound as safe as houses. Yet people are reportedly taking out mortgages -- mortgages to join the bandwagon. That doesn't sound like a
great idea.
Do you know the difference between a Bitcoin and a Satoshi? How about Kimchi Premium? It probably sounds like Double Dutch to you and me, but
the virtual currency is bringing a whole bag of fun new words to the table.
Our Paula Newton reports on how the craze is sweeping one country in particular, South Korea.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PAULA NEWTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Bitcoin may be a virtual currency, but here in South Korea, the Kimchi Premium is all too real. This is Kimchi,
spicy fermented cabbage. It's a staple side dish here. So, what's the Kimchi Premium?
(voice-over): Bitcoin is in such high demand on Korean Won exchanges, traders say South Koreans can pay a 15 percent to 25 percent premium on
global prices just to get a piece of it.
KIM DUYOUNG, MANAGER, COINPLUG: They see as gambling in some ways. They try to earn more money by using exchanges.
NEWTON: So, to understand the Bitcoin frenzy, South Korea is as good a place to start as any. Virtual currencies might be a fringe play
elsewhere. In South Korea, they are mainstream. At least a million people buy it, trade it, cash it in.
It's everyday banking and investing for everyday people, none more enthusiastic than college students like Isaac Chung. He is in between
classes right now checking his virtual currency portfolio. He's made thousands of dollars already.
ISAAC CHUNG, STUDENT: It's like the stock market but it's like ten times, 100 times faster.
NEWTON (on camera): Is it more addictive?
ISAAC: Definitely. Like the emotions related to this, it's more inflated than what you get in normal stock market because it's on 24/7. You have to
be constantly on the radar of what's going on.
[15:25:05] NEWTON: How popular is it on campus right now?
CHUNG: The speculative frenzy is pretty huge right now. Bitcoin price is this. Bitcoin price is that right now.
NEWTON (voice-over): Bitcoin prices are so excessively tracked here. Bitcoin exchanges like Bitsum have opened storefronts and customer service
bays to make trading in virtual money much easier.
(on camera): Three of the top 15 virtual currency exchanges are located here. On any given day, South Korea accounts for more than one-fifth of
all Bitcoin trades done around the world.
(voice-over): The government says it worries that virtual currencies are corrupting the country's youth with so many small investors all in, there
could be a crash out.
(on camera): So, just like the Kimchi, this is in made in Korea problem. The government is already working to ban new virtual currencies. Ban the
sale of Bitcoin futures contracts and other derivatives, and maybe in future taxing virtual currency transactions and profits.
(voice-over): There are other uniquely made in Korea problems. South Korean government fears virtual currencies are arming North Korea with new
financial weapons making it easier to hack or launder money. It warns North Korea hackers will aggressively target virtual currency exchanges in
the year to come.
All good reasons to keep a keen eye on Korean exchanges as virtual currency goes from market niche to market obsession. Paula Newton, CNN, Seoul.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: A lot more to come this evening, a vicious tweet by President Trump attacking a female senator had some accusing him of trying to slut-
shame. What the targeted senator is saying now and what the president has implied.
Rock icon, Roger Waters has something to say about President Trump and his supporters. The front man of Pink Floyd is back on tour and he shared his
thoughts with me about politics and more. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GORANI: In the U.S., some lawmakers are crying foul after President Trump's vicious tweet attack against the female senator who called on him
to resign over a sexual assault allegation.
Trump tweeted this morning, "Lightweight Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, a total flunky for Chuck Schumer and someone who would come to my office
begging for campaign contributions not so long ago and would do anything for them is now in the right fighting against Trump. Very disloyal to Bill
and Crooked used."
Fellow Democrats are defending Gillibrand including Senator Elizabeth Warren who accused the president of trying to bully slut-shame. Senator
Gillibrand herself called the president's tweet a sexist smear.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D), NEW YORK: It was a sexist smear attempting to silence my voice. And I will not be silenced on this issue neither will
the women who stood up to the president yesterday and neither will the millions of women who have been marching since the women's march to stand
up against policies they do not agree with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Let's go to CNN's Dan Merica live in Washington. So, this is once again - he created the - president has over Twitter created a feud with an
elected representative. I mean, where is this going to go?
DAN MERICA, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, the White House hasn't commented on this, especially on what he meant, by saying she would do anything for
those donations. Clearly, it's a sexually suggestive tweet.
Democrats have blasted it. Many Democrats on Capitol Hill are rallying around SEN. Gillibrand. Privately, though, number of Gillibrand aides and
top Democrats say that they're actually excited about this fight, that Gillibrand is willing to have this fight, and has been out and front on
sexual assault issues for really not only just for months, but for years. She's been a top Democrat on that issue.
Sarah Sanders is briefing the press at the White House right now. You've got to expect she's asked about this and that would really be the first
time the White House has tried to clear up -
GORANI: Let me - let's just go to Sarah Sanders now and listen to what she has to say about it.
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: - political contributions to the senator that the president referenced.
Steve?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the president want Roy Moore to be seated in the Senate if he wins tonight? And does he plan to call him tonight?
SANDERS: In terms of calls, I'm not aware that anything is scheduled, win or lose. In terms of being seated, I can't speak on a hypothetical,
certainly not one that could potentially influence an election one way or the other due to the Hatch Act.
John?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah, does the president agree with his outside legal counsel that a special prosecutor should be appointed to look into the
goings-on at the Department of Justice during the election campaign in 2016 since the revelation about Bruce Ohr, the former associate deputy attorney
general?
SANDERS: I think it's something that certainly causes a lot of concern not just for the president and the administration, but I think probably for all
Americans, and something that if we are going to continue to investigate things, let's look at something where there's some real evidence and some
real proof of wrongdoing. And this looks pretty bad, and I think it's something we should certainly look at.
Dave?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, would he support the appointment of a special prosecutor to look into this?
SANDERS: I haven't asked him that directly, but I know that he has great concern about some of the conduct that's taken place and something that we
certainly would like to see looked at.
Dave?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks, Sarah. Congressional leaders are saying that they have no plans to reimpose sanctions on Iran by the deadline tomorrow
that the president initiated back in October when he decertified Iran's compliance with the nuclear deal.
GORANI: So, we're going to break away from this now. Dan Merica, you're still with me in the Washington bureau.
So, Sarah Sanders, the press secretary, in reference to - we missed that particular bit. So, I'll update our viewers. In reference to his tweet
about Kirsten Gillibrand, said the president has used that phrase many times before that she's begged for donations, but I don't know about the
would do anything for it. I personally hadn't seen that before.
MERICA: I think what Sarah Sanders was trying to say is that he was commenting on corruption in the political system by, as she said, both men
and women. What really strikes me about that statement is that the president actually donated money to SEN. Gillibrand's numerous campaigns
when he was a businessman in New York, about $8,000, based on FEC reports, he donated to SEN. Gillibrand. His daughter Ivanka Trump also donated
$2,000.
So, he was as much of a player in that system by donating to her. It really reignites the conversation about the fact that President Trump was a
prolific Democratic donor before he ran for president as a Republican, Hala.
GEARAN: All right. And thanks very much for that update, Dan Merica in our Washington bureau. We'll keep our eye on that. There was a question
about Roy Moore in that press briefing and let's turn back to that bitter and divisive Alabama Senate race where voting is well underway.
Joining me now is CNN political commentator and assistant editor at "The Washington Post" David Swerdlick. So, we were discussing earlier in the
program that Roy Moore's voters in a deeply conservative state like Alabama are most likely to propel him to a win this evening and you would have Roy
Moore as a sitting US Senator.
Do we expect the establishment Republicans in Washington to then try to get rid of him at that point?
DAVID SWERDLICK, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND ASSISTANT EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes. Good afternoon, Hala. I think that you can expect
senators in Washington to maybe instigate an ethics investigation against SEN. Roy Moore or into Roy Moore's conduct, but I don't think we have any
indication yet that senators are automatically going to jump to having him removed from the Senate.
[15:35:11] The rules are that they do have to cede him if he is the duly elected winner of the Alabama race and then they would subsequently have
the opportunity to expel him from the Senate. But I think we are way ahead of ourselves in thinking that he is just going to be injected based on
allegations that are made so far, given the inconsistencies in the statements that Senate Republican leadership have made up to this point.
GORANI: Because, I mean, going into the midterms, having someone like Roy Moore in the Senate, someone who has made outrageous types of remarks that
we know he's made a few years ago, saying every amendment after the 10th in the US Constitution is useless, and one of those amendments by the way was
to give women the right to vote and abolish slavery. Those were at least two of them.
And his wife, as late as yesterday, saying one of our attorneys is a Jew. I mean, this type of language, this type of politician sitting in the US
Senate, if you're purely cynical about it and you're a Republican, you think to yourself, this is going to hurt us.
SWERDLICK: Well, that's not the that they've made though. I think the observations you're making are very similar to what a lot of people in
Washington, what a lot of people throughout the United States have made.
But in a fire engine red state like Alabama where the Republican Party has a built-in advantage going into the race, and then some of these specific
allegations accrue, the Democrat is still sort of playing catch-up and we're seeing that reflected in the polling.
You have three polls come out yesterday. One said that the two candidates, Jones and Moore, were running neck and neck. One had Jones up by 10
percent, one had Moore up by 9 percent. So, the idea that we can really tell what's going to happen tonight, I think it's kind of tough to make a
prediction.
That said, as you just described, we are in slightly uncharted territory here with a candidate who already had controversial positions on same-sex
marriage, on religion generally, has been expelled from the Alabama Supreme Court twice, and then our "Washington Post" reporting showed that he had
serial allegations of trying to date or in, at least, one case molest teenage girls against him.
This is really a test for Republican voters in that state where many have said, up to and including President Trump, even in spite of all this weight
on one side of the ledger, they say we can't afford to have a Democrat in Congress. Republicans clearly want that seat. They don't want to reduce
their margin in the U.S. Senate.
GORANI: And then, there was that bizarre testimonial from one of his supporters who served with him in Vietnam, who in order to illustrate the
fact that Roy Moore is not interested in young women told the story of the two men visiting a brothel.
SWERDLICK: Yes. I mean, I don't see how - I don't see how his campaign thought that would help them in any way, but, I mean, you have people who
are not political professionals going out there at the 11th hour thinking that they're explaining one thing and it turns out, in fact, they're just
raising further questions about Judge Roy Moore's character and raising further questions about his background and how they are even approaching
this issue.
It's one thing to say these are the allegations and we simply deny them flat out. It's another to offer a series of justifications.
He apparently in this anecdote was at a brothel when he was serving in Vietnam, but didn't go in at an earlier stage. The justification for
allegedly dating teenagers was I would never do it without asking their parents first. None of these things is a flat denial. And that I think is
the problem they face.
GORANI: David Swerdlick of "The Washington Post", thanks very much. Coming up next, legendary musician Roger Waters is dedicating a song to
President Trump. The Pink Floyd front man tells me what it is and shares his thoughts on American politics.
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[15:41:08] GORANI: Roger Waters, the former front man of the legendary rock band Pink Floyd is back on tour nearly 40 years after the release of
one of the best-selling albums of all time. "The Wall" included the worldwide hit "Another Brick in the Wall" with its famous line "We Don't
Need No Education."
Well, now, Waters has changed his tune. He says one particular group of people do need an education, and they're Donald Trump supporters. I sat
down with Waters for a wide-ranging interview.
But, first, look at his new interpretation of an old Pink Floyd song called Pigs which he has dedicated to the American president.
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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: I guess my question is, after decades of being engaged politically, of wondering what binds us all as humans together, what is
good, what is bad, what is just, what is unjust, where have you arrived now in terms of that question? Is this the life we really want?
ROGER WATERS, SINGER-SONGWRITER, PINK FLOYD: No, it's not the life I really want. I don't think it's the life that most of us really want,
which is the point. It is the life that some people want. We live in a state of perpetual war.
And it is supported by a certain ethos which is very right wing in my view and very, very wrong and based upon the need to lie to all of us about
foreign policy, about political matters in general in order to maintain the idea that it is necessary to live in a state of perpetual war.
GORANI: But when you do the anti-Trump material, do you sometimes get bad reaction?
WATERS: You get five disgruntled women in - young men actually.
GORANI: Women?
WATERS: Well, they tend to be a bit more vocal than the men to men kind of -
But about five people leave every night.
GORANI: But what's your responsibility as an artist, do you think, right now in this political -?
WATERS: The guy is a spiv. This is a very, very dangerous spiv, Donald Trump. And the fact that he hasn't been laughed out about this by an
electorate just shows how powerful the propaganda machines that operate are, in my view.
GORANI: His base hasn't abandoned him. In fact, he's still - the voters who got him elected still support Donald Trump by and large.
WATERS: In order for the blue-collar support, which he claims and which I'm sure is there, to continue to support him, they have to go on believing
the mantra that the reason that they are being rushed under his jackboot is because of the Mexicans and the Chinese and foreign people and Muslims and
so on and so forth.
Whereas, in fact, if you look at the tax bill that's just been voted through the Senate and it's going back to the House of Representatives,
they're being crushed by him and by Paul Ryan and by the Republican agenda which is to steal money from the poor and give it to the rich.
GORANI: But is it responsibility, though? You think as an artist, is it your responsibility to be politically active in that way where you feel
like the electorate is ignorant? You say those who voted for him are ignorant. They don't know the reality of what they're - of who they voted
for.
WATERS: Well, maybe they do. Maybe they have been reduced to a condition whereby they want to join a militia and put on a swastika armband and
wander around with torches and let's get back to the good old days in the late 40s when we were lynching people who were a different color. That's
what we really want to return to.
But in my view, those people need nurturing, they need loving, they need educating. They're very uneducated, most of them.
I wanted to say something, if I may.
GORANI: Go ahead.
[15:45:06] WATERS: I think that the protest resistance is there and it's not dormant. It's beginning to ferment and bubble. And people are, in
spite of the enormous amount of propaganda that's poured day in and day out, by, dare I say, the mainstream media and by the whole consumer merry-
go-round, I sense a feeling - and as I go around the - certainly around the country, around the USA and the same in Canada, I sense the audience want
something different.
So, when people see my interpretations of the song "Us and Them," which are about where do we find within ourselves the capacity to empathize with
people over there who are in desperate need of help from the advanced countries in the West, where can we find that in ourselves, how do we find
that -
GORANI: But we live in a world where Kim Kardashian has as many followers as the population of a country like Germany or I think even more maybe -
WATERS: It shows what a sick world we live in.
GORANI: But is it a sick world or is this where we are now? Is this the reality we must accept?
WATERS: Well, do you know why people are more interested in Kim Kardashian's bum than they are in the predicament of their fellow men and
women?
GORANI: Why?
WATERS: Because they've been sold that idea that sold. They've been sold the idea that that is what -
GORANI: Isn't that a conspiracy theory, though? Who is they?
WATERS: You can call any idea a conspiracy theory if you wish to diminish it.
GORANI: Who is the overarching evil mind that is trying to sell us Kim Kardashian's butt?
WATERS: I don't think there's one overarching evil mind. I think it's - I think the idea that the bottom line trumps everything and that somehow
competition and commerce is a universal panacea. And if we allow it to run unfettered - and this administration is removing what small amounts of
fettering there were on it. Now, they're tearing it away and getting rid of it. They're getting rid of the Environmental Protection Agency.
They're destroying all of that in order to allow commerce a freer reign, to allow the markets to become freer, which they claim will be good for
everybody. We all know that that's not the truth.
GORANI: I want to ask you about your support for the Palestinian cause because there's been some news regarding that. The Boycott Divestment and
Sanctions Movement, you support that against Israel to protest its occupation. Why are you so passionate about that cause in particular?
WATERS: Because I've been there. I've seen it. I've been all over the West Bank. I've seen what the occupation looks like. It's the most
horrific thing I've ever seen, not on film. It's absolutely appalling.
You see this one whole people, the Palestinian people, completely subjugated to the will of the Israeli government. Completely. They have
no civil right. They have no rights. They don't have the right to life or liberty or the pursuit of happiness or any rights to talk.
GORANI: I want to just - to finish off, move away from politics and ask you about -
WATERS: Love.
GORANI: Yes. What about love?
WATERS: That's what my show is about. My show is about - there's this song in my show called wait for her, which is on the new album. And it's
actually poem by Mahmoud Darwish. He's the most famous of all the Palestinian poets. And it's a take of his on a part of the Kama Sutra in
fact. So, you can figure out for yourself what wait for her means.
But for me, it means something - that is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful piece of writing, which I've modified to some extent. But, for me, it's
about being - falling in love, being deeply, deeply, deeply and desperately and completely overcome.
This happened to me a couple of years ago by love. And how one can use that attachment to another human being. It doesn't matter what sex,
whatever, to another human being as a transcendental vehicle that can transport you into a place where it can liberate your capacity to feel any
feelings of empathy you may have with others more. It makes you more anti- war, makes you more concerned about somebody else's child or somebody else's scar.
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(END VIDEOTAPE)
GORANI: Well, Roger Waters starts his worldwide tour next year. It's US + Them tour.
[15:50:01] Check out our Facebook page. We will post this interview online, Facebook.com/HalaGoraniCNN and check me out on Twitter @HalaGorani.
More to come, including something of a rarity in the movie world. A female director from Saudi Arabia, one of the most respected in the business,
Haifaa al-Mansour joins me after the break.
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GORANI: Wadjda, the first feature film to be shot entirely in Saudi Arabia and by a woman, but when it was released in 2012, movie theaters were
banned in the Saudi Kingdom and that is about to change as part of a dramatic shakeup in the country's culture.
The movie's director Haifaa al-Mansour said the decision was a beautiful day for the country. Haifaa al-Mansour is one of the most respected
filmmakers in Saudi Arabia and around the world and she joins me now from LA.
So, we're expecting, Haifaa, movie theaters to open in the kingdom for the first time since late 70s, early 80s. obviously, you must be elated.
HAIFAA AL-MANSOUR, SAUDI ARABIAN FILM DIRECTOR: Oh, yes. I'm so excited. It's amazing. The prospect of like cinemas is very thrilling, especially
for filmmakers, Saudi filmmakers. We always take our films all around the world and we don't feel like we belong, and now we will show our films back
home. It's such a moving moment.
GORANI: Is that what you're planning to do next year?
AL-MANSOUR: Yes, for sure. I think it is important also for Saudi society to have some kind of entertainment. Saudi Arabia is very dry when it comes
to entertainment and the society is moving to become more normal. And it is - and women will drive. It is - normalizing the society is a wonderful
thing.
GORANI: And do you think these changes are - obviously, they're important changes, but do they go far enough?
AL-MANSOUR: I think social liberties can do a lot to a society, especially like Saudi Arabia. Having some music festivals and bringing a little bit
of entertainment - like Saudis travel to Bahrain, to Dubai just to watch a movie, and that is expensive when they have big families and all that.
So, if they can watch things back home and if you can make Saudi Arabia more fun because it's really dry when it comes to entertainment. I think
people will be a lot more happier and that is, in a way, more tolerant, more worldly. They see themselves as part of the world, not against it.
So, it is, in a way, really important to have this kind of outlet for - especially for young people. And Saudi is a very young country in
population.
GORANI: And the new crown prince has been praised for doing - for making these moves and issuing these royal decrees, at the same time criticized
for being very intolerant to opposition and to descent. So, you have this kind of divided picture of the country right now.
AL-MANSOUR: Well, there's a lot of resistance from social conservatives. And it is like - for example, cinema, there will be a lot of censorship to
accommodate them. And they will be like regulations to open cinemas.
But, yes, in history, when things like that - it's always controversial until things settle. We don't know where things are going with this. But
this is amazing to have cinemas and to have women driving and have a place where people can enjoy life. And this is very important in Saudi.
[15:55:14] GORANI: I think foreigners and people who don't know Saudi Arabia all have the same question. They say what is it about Saudi Arabia
and its culture that makes it possible for decades for movie theaters to be banned, for instance. What are the driving cultural forces that mean that
this country has stayed so far behind when it comes to social normalization?
AL-MANSOUR: I think Saudi Arabia, there was a lot of emergence of very conservative religious ideologies since the late 70s and they took control
of our social life.
So, music - every public exhibition of art was not allowed and movie theaters, for sure. No art galleries, no music festivals. So, it was in a
way very puritan kind of society. And it is hard to live that way. It's hard not to have that kind of like ease, like not going to the mall and
worry about someone telling you to cover or - it wasn't really a relaxed place to live in as a Saudi.
And now, it's moving. People are more comfortable going out and enjoying a meal. And it is not like before when it was so conservative and everybody
is worried about their model conduct. So -
GORANI: And you, obviously, directed this film - we've got to leave it there - but, obviously, talking a lot about how women want to free
themselves and explore their surroundings.
Haifaa al-Mansour, thanks so much for joining us. And we hope to be able to speak with you when one of your films screens in Saudi Arabia next year.
Appreciate it.
AL-MANSOUR: Pleasure being with you, Hala. Thank you.
GORANI: Thank you. It is December. The year is drawing to a close and you may already be starting to look for your new calendar for 2018. Well,
look no further. Russia has got you covered.
One Russian magazine has just released its new Vladimir Putin calendar with a range of looks from the president, who, by the way, is up for reelection
next year again. The calendar shows Putin in many roles from traditional looks, like Putin the military man, to more unseen sides of him, like Putin
the conservationist, the canoer and even the partier.
I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN. "Quest Means Business" is up next.
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