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Interview with Rep. Mark Meadows; Trump Lawyers and Mueller's Team to Meet; FBI Deputy Director Testifying; House to Vote on Tax Reform. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired December 19, 2017 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 here in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

We're following breaking news. We're on the brink, right now, of historic reforms to the U.S. tax system. This hour, we expect a vote in the House of Representatives on the $1.5 trillion Republican tax cut bill.

A bill that just one-third of Americans approve, that according to a brand-new CNN poll. More than half of those surveyed said they oppose the bill while 11 percent are unsure.

Let's go right to Capitol Hill. Our Congressional Correspondent Phil Mattingly is watching the latest developments.

So, where do things, Phil. stand right now?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, as you noted, in just about a half hour, the House of Representatives will be taking their vote. And House Republican leaders have made very clear they are on the right track.

Behind closed doors this morning, House Speaker Paul Ryan telling his conference to soak it up, basically saying this is the moment after a year of legislative frustration that they've been waiting for.

Now, Wolf, Democrats have made it very clear. They are opposed unanimously to this bill in the House and in the U.S. Senate. But, at this point in time, they don't have any Republican help in trying to oppose that bill. And that means that the House will pass the bill in short order.

After that, Wolf, it will move over to the Senate where Senator Majority Leader Mitch Connell has wrapped up all the votes he needs to be able to move this forward.

In terms of timeline, the majority leader, saying earlier today, he expects to have a vote on this plan later tonight. The timing is a little bit fluid here. But, Wolf, but one thing is certain. Republicans have the votes for their $1.5 trillion tax overhaul. It will be a legislative win.

I think the big question right now is, will it also be a political win? You talk about the bad headlines or the bad poll numbers.

Republicans acknowledge that but they brush it off, saying they just haven't sold the bill well enough or, in short order, Americans will see their paychecks change and that will bring its support along for the bill.

It's a gamble that they're taking and it's one they're willing to take. They believe the policy is the right direction.

More importantly, they believe they need to do something, anything on the legislative side, after a rather frustrating year, is the imperative they needed to push it over the top.

There's no question about it, Wolf, by tomorrow afternoon, President Trump will have a tax overhaul bill on his desk. Something that just a few months ago, like a lot of people thought, certainly wasn't possible, at least within the year of 2017.

BLITZER: It will be a major, major win, for the president, for the Republicans, in the Senate and the House of Representatives. And a significant change to the U.S. tax structure.

Phil, thank you very much.

In our new CNN poll, by the way, we also asked who benefits the most from this legislation. Two-thirds of Americans, 66 percent, say the wealthy get the most out of this bill. Only 27 percent say it will help the middle class the most.

But House Speaker Paul Ryan says it's just a matter of time until people come around. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: When we get this done, when people see the withholding improving, when they see the jobs occurring, when they see bigger paychecks, a fair tax system, a simpler text code, that's what's going to produce the results.

Results are going to make this popular.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, joining us now from Capitol Hill, Republican Congressman Mark Meadows from North Carolina. He's the chairman of the House Freedom Caucus.

Congressman, thanks so much for joining us.

REP. MARK MEADOWS (R), NORTH CAROLINE, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE FREEDOM CAUCUS: Wolf, it's great to be back with you. Thanks so much. BLITZER: All right, it's 570 pages. This legislation you're about to

vote on, on the floor of the House of Representatives, some of it is extremely complex, hard to understand. Have you gone through this entire tax bill that you're voting on?

MEADOWS: Well, I have. I mean, maybe you see the bloodshot eyes that I have. I was up late. I started on Friday but up late last night finishing it up to make sure that I have actually read the bill that I'll be voting on here in just a few minutes.

But you're right. It is extremely complex. I'm not a lawyer. As you start looking at the referrals here and there that it goes to, it's more important on what is in it and it is about cutting taxes for the American people, and indeed this bill does that. I feel very comfortable with that.

And it's not perfect, by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, in just the next day or so, we'll be working on legislation to actually improve this. And we hope that Democrats will come across to help us on that.

But it will be a historic day for Americans, from coast to coast.

BLITZER: The independent scores or the independent analysis of the bill, and you know this well, Congressman, say there could be around $1 trillion or $1.5 trillion added to the nation's debt to the deficit.

I want to play an exchange I had last night with the former budget director, Leon Panetta. Listen to this, what he told me in "THE SITUATION ROOM."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, FORMER U.S. BUDGET DIRECTOR: This bill is going to add not just $1.5 trillion, but with the gimmicks that are part of it, it could add, in addition to other proposals Congress is working on, almost $4 trillion to the national debt.

BLITZER: Just curious where you came up with the $4 trillion number. Because the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint Committee on Taxation, they either say $1 trillion or $1.5 trillion.

[13:05:07] I know you're a former OMB head. I know you're a former chairman of the House Budget Committee, a former White House chief of staff.

Where'd you come up with the $4 trillion?

PANETTA: Well, it adds up this way. The tax bill, itself, is about $1.5 trillion. But it has temporary provisions in the bill that involve tax cuts.

If those temporary provisions are extended, that'll add another $2 trillion to the debt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And he also adds in, Congressman, other spending disaster aid that Congress is preparing to act on right now to get to what he calls $4 trillion added to the nation's debt.

Your Freedom Caucus is adamant about not growing the deficit. So, how do you square, from your perspective, which I totally understand, this huge deficit increase with your -- with your ideals?

MEADOWS: We are deficit hawks. Obviously, I've been honest with you, Wolf, that, in the short-term, this will increase the deficit.

Leon there is using that D.C. math. He's not counting any of the growth that we're going to see, not any of the increase in wages for the hard-working American taxpayer.

He's only looking at one side of the equation and not the other side. And so, as we look at this, I think the key is here. Is as we start to become more competitive as a nation, we make sure the corporations are bringing jobs here instead of taking them to China. We make sure that wages go up. We put pressure there.

We're going to see a GPD growth that we have not seen, literally in the last decade, probably not in the last two decades.

And so, in the short-term deficit increase, which obviously if we could do it any other way with Democrat support, I would be all in favor of that.

But we're going to start to see a real growth and increase in the paychecks. Not just for those top earners, but for the -- for the average person that is making a wage here in America. More than $2,000 a year back in their pocket.

And so, it's critically important that we not only deliver on a campaign promise, but we trust the American people to spend their dollar more wisely than D.C. Because you know what? They always do.

BLITZER: You know, Congressman, part of the plan to help offset this huge increase in the nation's debt, this massive deficit that's about to unfold, and the deficit, the debt, is huge already to begin with. Almost $20 trillion, as you know.

A part of it would be future steps down the road. We heard from some members of your caucus, including the speaker, they there should be significant cuts in entitlements programs, like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.

But the president is adamant, at least as a candidate, in opposing any such cuts to these entitlement programs.

Listen to what he used to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Save Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security without cuts. Have to do it. Get rid of the fraud. Get rid of the waste and abuse. But save it. People have been paying in for years and now many of these candidates want to cut it.

I'm not going to cut Social Security like every other Republican. And I'm not going to cut Medicare or Medicaid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. So. tell us how you feel about that because you clearly, and your supporters clearly, believe you've got to deal with the entitlements. But the president, at least as a candidate, was adamant. No cuts at all.

MEADOWS: Well, I can tell you that obviously we believe that there needs to be reforms in these entitlement programs. But a lot of those, as candidate Donald Trump said, that he was not going to touch those.

I can tell you, President Donald Trump has said the same thing. I've been in the room with him a number of times on those very issues. And he is still very firm on those.

So, what we're trying to do is look at the waste, fraud and abuse side of those equation and hopefully just slow the growth of government down.

If we really look at slowing the growth of government down, instead of allowing it to grow at 5 percent, allow it to grow at 2.5 percent, then what happens is over a 15-year period, you actually balance.

But I can tell you, the president was consistent on the campaign trail. He's actually consistent now that he's at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue on that front.

As much as I try to encourage him maybe to look at it differently, he's very adamant that he's going to stay firm with that.

BLITZER: Yes, he's told me, on several occasions, he doesn't want any cuts to Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. As you heard him say during the campaign, people have paid in for that. They don't want to see any cuts.

I know there's a different perspective that you have, that Speaker Ryan has and others in Congress.

But let me get to another point that you raised just a little while ago. You heard your colleague, Congressman Kevin Brady, who helped write this current bill you're about to vote on.

He admits there will have to be, and you say it yourself, several follow-up bills to clean up the problems that you're about to create in this bill.

[13:10:03] There's going to have to be -- and you remember that -- even in 1984, I assume you remember in the Reagan tax cut bill which was historic. There were immediately 180 what you call technical changes to the current legislation within days?

MEADOWS: Well, I don't know that you see them within days. Obviously, we're looking at a spending issue that we've got a December 22nd deadline.

But some of those we may see within days. I can tell you Rodney Davis, who is a member from Illinois, is working with me right now to make sure that the individual cuts for those moms and dads on main streets in the small businesses, that those get to be made permanent.

He's taking a leadership role there. I support him on that. And so, you may see a vote on that in the coming days.

But additionally, those technical changes that you're talking about. We've already been making a list in our office. Hopefully, we can find both Democrats and Republicans to help with that.

But anything that's this historic and this major is certainly going to need to be something that we actually address, some of the technical aspects as we see it.

But I'm very optimistic, not only can we get that done, but I think that we can get that done, hopefully in a bipartisan way to address that on behalf of the hardworking American taxpayer.

BLITZER: I know you've got to run. You've got a big vote coming up. But very quickly, are you going to vote later in the week for this spending bill to keep the government open and avoid a government shutdown, even if it includes various measure that you're not necessarily thrilled by, including, let's say, $81 billion for disaster relief in Texas, Florida and Puerto Rico?

MEADOWS: You know, I just came from a meeting with the speaker and some of the other leadership staff to be out here with you, Wolf. We're discussing that right now.

I don't see any danger of a shutdown but I do see a whole lot of maybe changes in the way that we approach the spending. Whether we do the supplemental as a different stand-alone bill along with a number of items.

But, in the end, we're going to get it done. We're going to stay here, even if we have to stay through Christmas to get it done to make sure that we do what's right on behalf of the American public.

BLITZER: Congressman Mark Meadows, thanks, as usual, for joining us.

MEADOWS: Thank you, Wolf. Good to be with you.

BLITZER: Thank you very much and Merry Christmas to you and a happy new year as well.

This hour, the House, by the way, will begin voting on that massive GOP tax bill. When that begins, we're going to bring it to you live. That's coming up straight ahead. Also, President Trump's private lawyers preparing to meet Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team as the president remains confident he'll be cleared of any wrong-doing pretty soon.

And later, an update on that deadly train crash in Washington State. Was speed a factor and why so many cars careened off the track, leaving so many passengers dangling over a highway overpass with at least three people dead and so many more injured.

[13:13:54]

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[13:17:25] WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI deputy director is up on Capitol Hill today. Andrew McCabe is the latest official to testify behind closed doors before the House Intelligence Committee as part of the investigation into Russian interference with the 2016 U.S. presidential election. McCabe is expected to face questions of bias in his office against President Trump.

And this comes as we learn that the president's lawyers are planning to meet with Special Counsel Robert Mueller and his team as early as this week. "The Washington Post," by the way, is reporting that the Trump team is hoping to hear that the president is free and clear of any accusations of collusion.

Let's discuss this and more with our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto.

Jim, first of all, what are you learning about this face-to-face meeting between White House lawyers and Muller's team?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is not the first time they have met, but the timing here is key because White House lawyers are hoping for an update, a positive update or an indication that the investigation, as it relates to the president, is if not at its end, nearing its end. The reason they're doing it now, as soon as this week, is because Robert Mueller has now run through at least his current list of witnesses that he wants to speak to inside the White House.

Now, he could add to that list later or ask for more documents later, but because he's come to the end of the list of the folks he's requested so far, interviewed all of them, lawyers to meet with him to get an update with an expectation, perhaps a hopeful expectation, that Mueller will indicate to them that the investigation is coming to an end or will soon come to an end.

BLITZER: And there's a lot of pressure in the House Intelligence Committee, you're hearing this as well, for them to wrap up their investigation, right?

SCIUTTO: Well, there's a lot of concern among the Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee that this is what Republicans on the committee are setting up for. From the beginning, you've had the House investigation and the Senate investigation because of the numbers. There's a greater Republican majority in the House. You have a greater majority in the House Intelligence Committee, along with a Republican chairmanship there.

The Democrats on that committee have not had as much power or influence. They're not allowed to, for instance, subpoena witnesses. But now that the last interviews -- scheduled interviews at least -- are going to come to an end on Friday, they have some fear that this is, in effect, the end or the near end of that House investigation.

Now, the current acting chairman of that committee, Mike Conaway, has said that's not the case. But I can tell you, and I've spoken to Democratic members of the committee, and that is their concern, and that's based in part on the pace of things. The fact that there were no interviews scheduled beyond the end of this week, the fact that some interviews are going to be in New York when the committees out -- no longer in session. We'll see if that's the case.

[13:20:06] But there have been partisan concerns on that committee for some time about how long it will go and how bipartisan that probe actually is.

BLITZER: Jim Sciutto reporting for us. Jim, thank you very much.

Let's discuss the Russia probe with our panel. Joining us, our senior political analyst Mark Preston, CNN political analyst and senior political correspondent for "The Washington Examiner," David Drucker, and A.B. Stoddard, she's the associate editor and columnist for "RealClearPolitics," host of "No Labels" radio on Sirius XM.

A.B., let's talk about Andrew McCabe, the deputy director of the FBI, testifying behind closed doors before the House Intelligence Committee.

The Republicans are deeply concerned about him. They think he's biased.

A.B. STODDARD, ASSOCIATE EDITOR AND COLUMNIST, "REALCLEARPOLITICS": Right. And the knives have been out for him for a while because his wife ran for office as a Democrat, accepted --

BLITZER: In Virginia.

STODDARD: In Virginia. And this is -- there's always been this sort of stink around him in Republicans' eyes, that he's somehow connected to the Clintons and to Virginia Governor McAuliffe and that he's a partisan.

Off -- I have the new revelation, which is in this Peter Strzok-Lisa Page e-mails is a refer to a conversation in Andy's office in which they discuss something called an insurance -- refer to as an insurance policy. This is what they want the answer to. And McCabe seems to me -- and I go back to two weeks ago with Sarah Huckabee Sanders was trying to explain a president tweet staying the FBI's reputation was in tatters. She said the rank and file are fine, good men and women, but it's really the political leadership. And so you can tell that there's a really likely push to clean house. The president's been pretty open about that, that he might start getting rid of people in the FBI. And I think Andrew McCabe's in the spotlight and possibly obviously Rod Rosenstein as well.

BLITZER: You heard over the weekend, David, Kellyanne Conway, the counselor to the president, the White House, she said in a TV interview that all the texts that have come out showing some sort of bias against President Trump, all those texts, in her words, indicate that the fix was in against the president.

DAVID DRUCKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, I think this is something that the president's allies have felt from the very beginning and they have constantly raised terms like "deep state" and, you know, "soft coup" as a way to suggest that the Russia investigation was really some sort of FBI hoax as a way to get at the president for something he didn't do because they just simply don't like him and don't trust him.

I think it's important to understand that the real danger here is that a lot of people on all sides of the political spectrum don't trust the FBI. We went through a 2016 campaign where Democrats insisting that the FBI was functions out of bounds and unfairly in their pursuit of Hillary Clinton and the release of the 302 (ph) notes that the House Republican committees helped make public because of their request and then that late letter from Jim Comey the last 10 days of the presidential campaign, that Democrats believe are responsible for Hillary Clinton losing a lot of her building leads at the time and --

BLITZER: Hillary Clinton believes that.

DRUCKER: Yes. And so I think what you have here is everybody being upset at the FBI.

I don't think it's helpful for an administration in charge of the FBI to act as though, one, it has no control and, b, that there's some sort of rogue element running things when they actually have an opportunity to do things.

I think the other thing, though, is that we would all be better served if everybody were able to have trust again in how the FBI operates because nobody really does. And if Hillary Clinton had won the election and Republicans were going after her, I'm sure that everybody would be singing a much different tune.

BLITZER: Mark, how do you see it?

MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, a couple things. One is, the attacks on the FBI right now from both sides are politically motivated. There's no question about that. And just like any organization, you're going to have problems internally. There's no question.

But they have an inspector general. They have somebody who's investigating. That has worked. That's how our government works right now.

And just talking to FBI agents, the rank and file, so to speak, who live here in and around Washington, D.C., there's a level of frustration. I don't want to use the word depression because that's going a little bit too far. But when you have the president of the United States constantly attacking and needling you, and then you pair it with what he has said about our intelligence agencies and the work that they're doing, there's not a whole lot of respect, I would say, or confidence I think in the commander in chief at the same time when he's saying he has no confidence in the FBI.

BLITZER: Everybody stand by. We have more that we need to discuss.

We're also awaiting the lawmakers in the House of Representatives. They're expected to begin voting any minute now on major overhaul of the U.S. tax system. The bill's fate is clear. It should pass the House. So why do so many Americans dislike it? We're going to talk more about and much more with our panel. Stay with us.

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[13:27:53] BLITZER: Take a look at this. The House floor, they're getting ready to vote, an historic vote on the Republican tax bill.

We're also awaiting comments, by the way, on the House floor from the speaker of the House, Paul Ryan. We'll have live coverage of that coming up. An historic day here in Washington.

The bill, by the way, that more than half of the American public thinks is a bad idea, according to a brand new CNN poll. Just one- third of the people surveyed in that CNN poll approve of this tax reform bill.

Let's bring back our panel, Mark Preston, David Drucker, A.B. Stoddard.

Why -- these numbers, the poll numbers, not just our poll but other polls around the country suggest that there's limited public support for this tax bill.

STODDARD: Well, you know, I don't think it's a good idea to put the voters down. They've watch this debate. Even though it's been on, you know, very sped up to meet a Christmas deadline. They have watched this debate in the House and they've watched it in the Senate and they've learned that the corporate rate cuts are steep, they're going to be permanent, that their likely middle class cuts are pretty modest and are going to last seven, eight years.

They're a little nervous about the end of some of the deductions. And they're looking at -- Republicans are looking nervously at the polling on this because it's almost always in that range that CNN has it. Sort of opposition, mid-50s support, low to mid-30s. These are worse than Obamacare numbers in 2010.

President Trump's approval numbers, worse than Obama's in 2010. So --

BLITZER: I think everybody remembers in the mid-terms elections what happened to the Democrats. STODDARD: They're very nervous that with an economy that's chugging on

so nicely, unless we see 6 percent growth, what does this mean for the defense of the Republican majority?

BLITZER: You know, it's interesting because in November our CNN poll had opposition to the tax bill at 45 percent. It's go up 10 points since November to 55 percent think it's not necessarily a good idea.

DRUCKER: And I think one -- this is one of the aspects of politics now because everything is partisan and everything is split. This is a Republican enterprise. Half the country's going to be predisposed to not trust it and not like it.

[13:29:55] And one of the challenges that Republicans face is to convince the right voters in the right places, 2018 battlegrounds, that this is good for them. Specifically suburban voters in upscale communities that like tax cuts and usually like to vote for Republicans, but worry that the provisions on the individual side of this tax reform are going to hit