Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Republicans, Democrats Face Off over Mueller Probe; Lawmakers Sign Letter in Support of Robert Mueller; GOP Lawmakers Claim Conspiracy Against Trump During Election; Forgotten Children of the Syrian War. Aired 1:30-2p ET

Aired December 21, 2017 - 13:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[13:30:00] MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just before this closed-door meeting with Andrew McCabe took place, I did ask the members about this, including one of the members on the committee, Mark Meadows. He said he had a conversation about firing Robert Mueller with the president, and the president is not taking that action. Here's what Meadows said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARK MEADOWS, (R), NORTH CAROLINA: There is not a concern in terms of trying to discredit the special prosecutor that has been not only established but continues to investigate. So Robert Mueller is not a subject of our investigation.

RAJU: How would you react if the president took steps to get rid of Robert Mueller?

MEADOWS: He's not. I've talked to the president and he's not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Clearly, Wolf, these are the two competing narratives as we head into an election year. Also raises questions about whether there can be any bipartisan consensus on the Russia investigations that are taking shape and in a lot of ways are breaking down along party lines -- Wolf?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: All right. Manu. A lot going on, on Capitol Hill even in these final days of the year.

Thank you so much for that report.

Let's bring in Democratic Congressman Jackie Speier, of California. She serves on the House Intelligence Committee. She's among the members who signed a letter in support of Robert Mueller. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

REP. JACKIE SPEIER, (D), CALIFORNIA: Great to be with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Why the sudden very large-scale efforts from Democrats, a lot of Democrats to protect the special counsel, Robert Mueller, even as the White House and the president insists there is no plan to fire him, to get rid of him, or to undermine his investigation? SPEIER: Many of us fear there is a systematic character assassination

under way about Special Counsel Robert Mueller. You don't undertake that unless you want to bring someone down. Robert Mueller is a Republican. He has been applauded by Republicans, on both sides of the aisle, in both houses of Congress, and he was appointed by President Bush. Those who serve in high places, the FBI director, a Republican, made many contributions, I think over $40,000 worth of contributions to Republican candidates. There is an effort under way somehow to besmirch the integrity of Special Counsel Mueller. And we are politicians. We smell rats. We smell a rat and are speaking up about it.

BLITZER: The argument I've heard about people well plugged in is that this effort by Republicans and critics of the Mueller investigation is that, yes, besmirch him, bring him down a bit, in case he goes forward and press a charge of collusion, let's say, or obstruction of justice against the president, raising questions about his integrity, about the honesty of his investigators. Sort of similar -- I'm old enough to remember, I was a White House correspondent during the Ken Starr investigation of then-President Clinton. When he was investigating, there was a lot of efforts by Bill Clinton supporters to besmirch Ken Starr and go after him in case he came up with charges they would be weakened, and the political ramifications would be reduced. What's your reaction?

SPEIER: That's certainly a historical reference. We have only one independent special counsel doing an investigation right now. He is looking for criminal conduct. We have a House and a Senate Intelligence Committee looking at the Russia implications in terms of our election. We are getting concern there is going to be a majority report coming out of the House, which will require a minority report because it's not being done in unison.

BLITZER: Has your committee, the House Intelligence Committee, are they wrapping it up? No more hearings are scheduled so far after this week. Is it all over as far as the House Intelligence Committee is concerned?

SPEIER: Wolf, what's happened over the last few weeks is really mind boggling and mind numbing. We have been sitting in duplicate, triplicate interviews going on at the same time in the committee. You can't possibly attend all of them. Some of them have been out of the building and some of them have been out of state. It is an effort, I believe, to bring this to a close as quickly as possible.

Now, we still have about 30 other witnesses we want to interview. We have not gotten an acceptance yet by the majority. Again, it makes me think that this is orchestrated on many levels by many committees to try and bring this entire effort to a halt.

BLITZER: We will see what happens on that front. There seems to be a lot better cooperation in the Senate Intelligence Committee between Democrats and Republicans than the House. We will watch your committee very closely. Congresswoman, you met with the House speaker, Paul Ryan, on a

sensitive issue of sexual harassment involving legislators. Where does this investigation stand right now? What emerged from your meeting with the speaker?

[13:35:11] SPEIER: Actually, my meeting with the speaker went very well. There is a great ray of hope here of bipartisanship. Both the Republicans and the Democrats are working together. I'm working with members of the House Administration Committee and the staff. My staff is working with them. They are basically moving forward with a package that replicates the #metoo Congress Act that I introduced that will give victims the protection and the effort to make that whole system work on behalf of the victim and not on the behalf of the harasser. We all agree there should not be taxpayer money that goes to pay for the settlements and we make members accountable for that. I am hopeful that by the first of the year, we will have a bill on the House floor that will be one that we can all applaud as being victims.

BLITZER: That's encouraging, at least the cooperation on that issue. I know you are a leader in the House in dealing with those particular problems and there are significant ones, as we all know.

Congresswoman Speier, thanks for joining us.

SPEIER: My pleasure, Wolf

BLITZER: Coming up, our political panel getting ready to weigh in on the battle brewing in Washington over the special counsel's independent probe of Russia's meddling in the U.S. election. That and more when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:40:54] BLITZER: We are covering a brewing showdown on Capitol Hill over the Russia probe. Nearly 200 Democrats has signed a letter in support of the Special Counsel Robert Mueller and warning against any attempts to fire him.

This, while at least two Republican members of Congress claim there may have been a government conspiracy to prevent President Trump from winning last year's election. They are now calling for an investigation.

Let's bring in our panel for perspective. Joining us, CNN political analyst, David Drucker, a political reporter for "The Washington Post," the political blogger, "The Fix," Amber Philipps, is with us, and CNN [politics senior writer, Juana Summers

Juana, let's read the tweet from Sen. Rand Paul. He writes this, "It's time to investigate high-ranking Obama government officials who might have colluded to prevent the election of Donald Trump. This would be worse than Watergate."

And Donald Trump Jr, the president's oldest son, made a similar accusation a couple of days ago.

When you hear that from a sitting U.S. Senator, that's significant the charge that Rand Paul is leveling.

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER: Right, Wolf. I would go so far as considering this a stunning charge he's made. So our viewers understand, he is suggesting that former President Obama, a sitting president, colluded so a member of the opposing party would not become the president of the United States. That's unprecedented. Sarah Huckabee Sanders, the White House press secretary, was asked about this, and she said this is something that should be looked at. I will be curious to see if this is something we will hear the president speak out about. This is unprecedented and inappropriate. This is not something that we have, reporting, that this did not, in fact, happen.

BLITZER: A very serious. Republican Congressman, Amber, Jim Jordan, made a similar claim on FOX News last night. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JIM JORDAN, (R), OHIO: I think they were putting together a plan to stop Donald Trump from being the next president of the United States. It's amazing in spite of the fact that the Democrats were against him, the Republicans establishment were against him, the mainstream press was against him, and now I believe the FBI and the Justice Department were against him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: He was on with John Berman on CNN last night and they had this exchange. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Have you had talks with the White House, not about the questions you asked, but about the Mueller investigation in general?

JORDAN: I talk with the White House about all kinds of things. We've had talks at the White House about tax policy and welfare policy. We've talked about Obamacare. Of course, we had talks with the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Is that concerning?

AMBER PHILLIPS, STAFF WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST & BLOGGER, THE FIX: He didn't deny John Berman's question, which is the broader question Democrats are asking, are you engaging in a coordinated effort, House Republicans and the White House and conservative media, to undermine Bob Mueller's investigation? If we step back and look at the back track, this happens after Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI. A huge development. A couple of days later, maybe the day after, President Trump was on Twitter accusing the FBI of bias more broadly. Then you have Trump's transition lawyer questioning whether Bob Mueller got thousands of e-mails from the Trump campaign legally. And then you have Jim Jordan and Rand Paul and other House Republicans saying stuff like this. They are not denying there was some kind of a coordinated effort, and it's all coming as the Russia investigation is giving signs it's heating up.

BLITZER: How do you see it, David?

DAVID DRUCKER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, it's interesting that you have seen an effort by Republicans to undermine the Mueller investigation. There is nothing that unusual about it. As you pointed out in your interview with Congresswoman Speier, it's exactly what Democrats did regarding Ken Starr in the investigation into President Bill Clinton. The difference was we had a special counsel law at the time and the president couldn't fire the special investigator on a whim. Even though, in this case, President Trump would have to go through a couple of attorneys general deputies to get to Mueller. So I can understand some of the concern.

But stepping back, there is something to a lot of suspicions that Republicans have whether or not it's valid. And it goes back to the beginning of the year when the reporting from "The Washington Post" on Michael Flynn was out there. A lot of Republicans I talked to at the time and in the months since have been asking questions about whether or not, regardless of what Flynn did and whether it was wrong, whether he was illegally unmasked and whether these things were leaked, and it was against the law.

I'm curious about this narrative that the Obama administration was out to get Donald Trump during the election. If that's the case, they did a horrible, horrible job, with none of this coming out until after the election. Whereas, Hillary Clinton, through fault of her own, had to deal with most of this. The 302 notes of her interviews coming out through House committees run by Republicans.

But this is something that Republicans are concerned about. And I think they will continue to drive this for political and, in some cases, concerns about how the investigation was conducted and about the leaking.

[13:45:58] BLITZER: Yes. You are right. During the campaign, Hillary Clinton was being investigated by James Comey, the FBI director, among others.

The White House lawyer, Ty Cobb, the official government White House lawyer, issued a statement, "For five months or more, the White House has persistently and emphatically stated there is no consideration of firing the special counsel. And the White House willingly affirms, yet again, as it has every day this week, there is no consideration being given to the termination of the special counsel."

Those are strong words from Ty Cobb.

SUMMERS: They are. But he's right. They have said this over and over again. But it's important to look at the backdrop. It's clear whether or not the president has desires to fire the special counsel. He is unhappy with this. This is an investigation he called a witch hunt. And you have seen, as Amber noted, just this week, the Trump transition lawyer casting dispersions on this investigation on whether e-mails were obtained appropriately. You have to look at that backdrop. Secondly, even if the president does not choose to fire special counsel, there are other things we could see happen, and we have seen Republicans and the president himself cast dispersions on this, which could lead to people not seeing any findings of this investigation as credible. That's equally important.

BLITZER: You saw Senator Mark Warner yesterday go on the Senate floor not on the press conference, but delivers a statement on the Senate floor warning about all of these fears that the Democrats had. He is the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Presumably, he has access to sensitive information.

PHILLIPS: Exactly. He didn't fully explain why he chose to do this now and didn't list out, oh, because X person said this, and President Trump's transition lawyers said this. He spoke to Manu Raju right afterwards and said I want to make sure no funny business happens when we leave Washington. That's remarkable that he is leaving that vague. As you point out, he might know a lot more than we know. He felt concerned enough to go to the Senate floor and cast this cloud of doubt about the doubt that Republicans he thinks are casting on the investigation.

BLITZER: A sensitive issue.

Very quickly, David.

DRUCKER: I think it's more interesting to hear it from Senator Warner that a member of the House on the Democratic side expressing concerns because they are working well together on the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senators are a little less hyperbolic, Rand Paul notwithstanding, than House members tend to be. It serves both sides to ratchet up things because they both have narratives they're trying to put out.

BLITZER: Mark Warner, and Richard Burr, the chairman of that committee, have been working closely together.

Guys, thank you very, very much.

Up next, the suffering of Syria's children. The forgotten victims of the war, apparently, without end. Nick Paton Walsh is on the scene for us. He has this incredible story after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:53:09] BLITZER: This picture is heartbreaking and very hard to look at, but this infant has become a symbol of the war in Syria, having suffered severe injuries in a reported government attack.

Our senior national correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, has the story.

And I want to warn you, the pictures you are about to see are disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the edge of existence, in a war you may have thought was over, besieged by Russian air power and the Syrian regime.

(EXPLOSION)

PATON WALSH: A headlong dash into dust and rubble has become something routine.

(SHOUTING)

PATON WALSH: They are still children. Mostly forgotten. Yet here, feeling the things they will never forget.

(SHOUTING)

PATON WALSH: This is childhood in eastern Ghouta, Syria, where Moscow has declared victory. Tiny bodies are abandoned, anonymous, no parents at hand to whisper their names.

Some marked urgent get out. Catlin (ph) lost the chance of a normal life and his mother after shelling on December 3. Intensive care under intensive bombardment. One of the grotesque norms of this war. He's among the 137 children who the U.N. said this week urgently need evacuating for emergency treatment.

Another is Kareem (ph). He lost an eye in another bombardment, and his mother, too. His injury took half of his sight, yet drew the attention of the international community. The outside world powerless and exhausted by this war. Now reduced to a hashtag and gesture. This, at the U.N. Security Council, it's pretty much all they can do.

[13:55:00] DR. AMANI BALOUR (ph), PEDIATRICIAN (through translation): We see many respiratory and intestinal problems in children, due to a lack of hygiene and unclean drinking water and unclean air from cooking smoke. We also see children with signs of mental illness, but we can't offer them anything.

PATON WALSH: Bombs are not the only weapons. Amira (ph) is age one, yet only five kilos in weight. And Nor (ph) is 4, and only 10 kilos.

The U.N., in a rare news superlative in this war, said child malnutrition here is the worst it's ever been in the war. And they are not starving from poverty but from siege. Food purposely denied to the defenseless by the regime.

(SHOUTING)

PATON WALSH: Here, a time of cheer and plenty elsewhere, does not spell even a pause in this war.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)