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Bannon in Book: "Don Trump Jr Meeting was "Treasonous"; Trump's Lawyers Tell Publisher Not to Release "Fire and Fury"; GOP Senate Intel Chair: No Need for Bannon to Testify; Trump Organization Gives Russia-Related Documents to Mueller; Bomb Cyclone Blasts East with Hurricane-Force Winds. Aired 1:30-2p ET
Aired January 04, 2018 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[13:30:00] WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: Something happened even before that investigation took place. When Gerald Ford, the minority leader at that time, was named to be vice president, that we h had confirmation hearings in the House. I admired him immensely. But during the course of that investigation, it turned out that we had learned that President Nixon had tried to influence the trial of Daniel Ellsberg, and by going to the presiding judge, and offered him the position of the FBI directorship. I thought that was outrageous.
That was an outrageous act to try to influence our judicial system. I remember the time that -- became President Ford, said, well, it was not to influence the judicial system, it was actually a promotion, a demotion rather than a promotion. I reacted negatively to that. I was very vocal at the time. Whenever you have someone trying to jeopardize the integrity of our judicial system, that needs to be condemned.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: You see that happening now?
COHEN: When I see what is taking place in terms of the attacks on Bob Mueller, when I see trying to shut down and destroy the attempt to bring this to the surface, I'm concerned about it, that this is participating with maybe an obstruction -- I don't know if it's obstruction of justice. That's what he's investigating. If members of Congress are trying to use their office to shut down an investigation, why are they complicit in the activities? I'm concerned about it. I want them to stand up. They took an oath to defend the country. I want them to defend it against all enemies, domestic and international and foreign. And I want them to stand up and say find out what's the truth here.
Once we understand the truth, the rest of this will go away. President Trump can serve out his term without this cloud hanging over him and the administration. Frankly, it's dangerous. It's dangerous to us because our allies don't know exactly what they can believe in. We don't have a consistent policy and we have some ad hoc taking place on a daily basis. It's a danger to our country if we don't settle down. Right now, it looks like the House is a House of shards. All of these pieces are cutting against the grain of governance in this country. It has to stop. Members of Congress ought to say let's find out what's going on, let's get the facts, and we will act responsibly. BLITZER: Do you think your fellow Republicans -- you are still a
Republican, even though you served in a Democratic administration and consider yourself a Republican. Will they respond?
COHEN: I don't know. What I have seen take place in the House, I doubt it. I would like to speak to the American people, to the people who support President Trump, and say he has brought something that they needed attention to their particular ills in terms of adversities they have to confront. We are Americans, and the one thing they have to hold on to is central to our Democratic system as the rule of law. I don't want to see the rule of law in any way bent or shaped that tries to bring about an outcome that is for partisan or political purposes. I want the rule of law to prevail. The law of rule. That's what I fear may be taking place.
BLITZER: Secretary Cohen, thanks very much. Very blunt assessment from you.
The president's lawyers now demanding the publisher stop the book from going out along with an apology and a retraction. But can the president do that? We have legal answers coming up.
And CNN reports frustration boiling in the West Wing after staff is banned from using personal cell phones. Did the president order this out of frustration?
Live pictures from the White House briefing room. The press secretary will be answering reporters' questions fairly soon. We will have live coverage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:37:44] BLITZER: President Trump is now fighting the release of the bombshell new book that portrays his first year in office as aimless and dysfunctional. His team sent a cease-and-desist letter to the publisher of the book entitled "Fire and Fury," saying they are investigating possible defamation of President Trump and his family, as well as an invasion of privacy.
A similar letter was sent to the former White House chief strategist, Steve Bannon, who is quoted in the book as saying, among other things, that Donald Trump Jr and Jared Kushner, the president's son in law, that their meeting with a Russian lawyer and other Russians was both treasonous and unpatriotic.
Lots of questions about that and a lot more when the White House press briefing begins. Looking at live pictures. Scheduled to begin shortly. We will have live coverage of that as you know.
As we stand by for that, let's bring in the panel. Joining us, political reporter for "The Washington Post" and blogger for "The Fix," Amber Philipps is with us. CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Laura Coates, as well as our chief political analyst, Gloria Borger.
Laura, you are our own legal analyst. Can the president really stop the author of this new book, Michael Wolff, from distributing the book and releasing it?
LAURA COATES, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: He hopes to, but he is going to fail on more than one ground. He has two courses of action. He is trying to say it's disparaging what has been said and he doesn't like what has been said. That's the standard. It has to be what was published was knowingly false or made in reckless disregard for the truth. An opinion cannot be a basis for a defamatory action, especially if you're a public figure. He'll probably lose on that ground. On the second ground, he has a nondisclosure confidentiality agreement.
BLITZER: With Steve Bannon.
COATES: With Steve Bannon. And arguably --
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Explain what that nondisclosure agreement suggests.
COATES: If suggests you cannot reveal anything you learned while in my employment. That's the crux of it. Maybe Michael Wolf never had to sign it, which is why he was able to write this book over an 18- month period.
BLITZER: Steve Bannon did sign it.
[13:39:50] COATES: Steve Bannon did sign it. He did sigh it. However, courts are really, really reluctant to ever enforce a contract that is against public policy and transparency is in the public policy to have that administration. And you have public figures for the president of the United States, based on the fact that he doesn't like that it was disparaging. The courts say, if it doesn't contain classified information, this is an issue of preference and public policy and we are not going to enforce it.
BLITZER: Politically, it's very explosive, Gloria.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: It is, and this is Trump's M.O., always to threaten legal action and sometimes they pull the trigger on it and sometimes they don't. But the reason he is doing it is they are very well aware of how explosive to us you're word, this is. It's eye popping. I think that they could the damage this does to the president and the administration, to the way they conduct business inside this White House and gives a lot of ammunition to his opponents.
BLITZER: Amidst all of this, Amber, Richard Burr, the Senator from North Carolina, chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said he doesn't see the need for the committee to question Steve Bannon, the former chief strategist. Though Mark Warner, the vice chairman, the top Democrat on the committee said yesterday. Adam Schiff said he does want Steve Bannon to testify if he has information that could be used.
AMBER PHILLIPS, REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST & BLOGGER, THE FIX: It's still an open question what Steve Bannon knows. This is one of the rare splits I should say, on the Intelligence Committee, leading Congress's investigation between the top Republican and top Democrat. I don't know how they will get through that. Richard Burr is the chairman. Ultimately, it's an open question what Steve Bannon knows. He was not on the campaign when Donald Trump Jr held the meeting in Russia. He may have his own opinion about it that he shared with Michael Wolff, but it's not clear whether he was involved in any of this as reporting comes out about Mueller's investigation, another parallel investigation into this. We haven't heart Steve Bannon's name.
BLITZER: In this book, Gloria, he suggests money laundering is a major problem for the Trump Organization, which is illegal, especially doing it with Russians, and also, suggesting that the meeting at Trump Tower was treasonous. That raises questions that committee members want answers to.
BORGER: Right. The point is, and you are right, that he joined this administration after the Trump Tower meeting, a couple of months. We also know the context of all of this which is that Steve Bannon hates Jared Kushner. President. End of story. He is going to say a lot of stuff about Jared that Jared is clearly going to dispute. We know this from our own reporting. There is a question in today's excerpt, for example, about how involved Jared was in the firing in pushing Trump to fire Comey. We know from our reporting the Jared Kushner camp said he just acceded to it and he was not intimately involved. Steve Bannon said no, he's the driver of this decision, which Bannon himself says on the worst decision the president has made.
COATES: Remember the fact that Steve Bannon joined late in the game is not going to immunize him from Mueller's investigation. George Papadopoulos joined late in the game and he has a guilty plea on the record and is somebody who was not going to be enough. The question remains what he knew and when he knew it. Mueller will look, and he may already have looked.
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Does he have firsthand knowledge? The Trump Tower meeting? Unless he spoke with people about it, after the fact two months later. We don't know that.
[13:44:01] BLITZER: Everybody stand by.
There are more developments unfolding. We are standing by for the White House press briefing. It's about to begin. Much more coming up after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: We are just getting in new details about Russia-related documents that is the Trump Organization in New York has turned over to the Special Counsel Robert Mueller's team. It's a congressional investigator sources. Now saying the documents include a range of events, conversations and meetings from President Trump's real estate business.
Let's go to our CNN Money correspondent, Cristina Alesci, who is joining us from New York.
Cristina, fill us in on the details and what else are you learn something.
CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN MONEY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the requests focus on the time period between 2015, when Trump announces candidacy, and the inauguration. And on the touch points and conversations, including the meetings and e-mails between Russians and anyone involved in the Trump campaign. Things like a speech that Don Jr gave to a Russia- friendly think tank in 2016, a foreign policy speech that Trump gave that the Russian ambassador, Kislyak, was present for. Those are the kinds of things. And although we don't see any requests for prior business deals, and this is very important against the backdrop of these calls to investigate potential money laundering and to look at his prior deals, it doesn't seem like the requests are focused just yet.
It's important to point out, Mueller and Congress, they don't need to get that kind of information from the Trump Organization. They can go to other sources. And my colleagues, Pam, Evan, and Shimon, reported that Mueller's team, that the FBI specifically, was looking at prior business deals and they were tapping third-party sources to take a look at those. And from prosecutor's standpoint, a prosecutor's mind set, they may want to understand the relationships to understand the foundation for possible collusion -- Wolf?
[13:50:58] BLITZER: Cristina, good reporting. Thanks very much.
Let's get quick reaction from our panel.
And, Amber, let me start with you.
Potentially, there could be useful information in all those documents.
PHILLIPS: Yes. We've already know, politically, the Mueller investigation is looking at Trump's inner circle in the White House, Michael Flynn, Jared Kushner, who knew what about firing Comey. Here we have evidence of them looking at the inner circle of Trump's business and how they operate, which suggests investigators see a reason to at least look into whether there is a link between the two. That's significant.
BLITZER: Laura?
COATES: I'm surprised they haven't gotten the information from them before. You are trying to understand, if you are a prosecutor, what would make you vulnerable to having someone say, we'd like to interact with you that lends itself to collusion. So you follow the money trail to figure out what are somebody's weaknesses and makes them vulnerable. So these types of documents would be the type of information that lead them to conclude whether there was a vulnerability or open door or invitation.
BLITZER: Suggests also, Gloria, and I think you'll agree, this investigation is continuing.
BORGER: Right.
BLITZER: Doesn't seem to be wrapping up.
BORGER: Well, it is. I think it is continuing. And I think the notion of sort of following the money is very important. And it also plays, you know, into the Michael Wolff book. He makes the point, which I agree with, which is that the Trump team never thought they were going to win, so they continued to do their business outreach. We know from the letter of intent from Trump Tower/Moscow, which went nowhere, and it was a failure, but they were still work on the possibility of doing some more business in Russia. So I think that this would be something that would be likely for the special counsel to look at.
BLITZER: All right. Everybody stand by.
We are also awaiting the starting of the press briefing over at the White House. About to hear from Sarah Sanders, the White House press secretary. She will be answering questions. A lot of questions, no doubt, about the new bombshell book that's taking readers behind the scenes of the Trump presidency. Stand by with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[13:55:43] BLITZER: Over 12 million people here in the United States are under a blizzard warning as what's called a bomb cyclone, with hurricane force winds and blinding snow, ripping through parts of the northeast here in the U.S. Other normally warm parts of the country reporting record-shattering snowfalls. Charleston, South Carolina, measuring just over 5 inches. Many people, even in northern Florida, seeing snow on their lawns, some of them seeing it for the very first time.
Take a look at these live pictures coming in from snowy Boston right now where winds are picking up speed, pummeling snow onto cars, driving through deserted streets. Those hurricane-force winds creating another headache for commuters as water from the already record-high Boston Harbor surges in. And over in Virginia Beach, another scene as snow bears down on the Oceanside City.
The White House briefing, by the way, moments away from now. We'll get all of that coming up.
Stay with us. We'll be right back.
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