Return to Transcripts main page

STATE OF THE UNION

Hawaii Faces Terrifying False Missile Alarm; Interview With Former Virginia Governor Terry McAuliffe; Interview With Utah Congresswoman Mia Love; Interview With Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard; Discussion of Trump Remarks; President Trump And Archie Bunker In This Week's "State of the Cartoonion". Aired 9-10a ET

Aired January 14, 2018 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:32]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Terrifying alert. Panic in Hawaii, after a false alarm was sent out warning people to seek shelter from an incoming ballistic missile.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we got the alarm, we were actually terrified. We didn't know what to do.

TAPPER: How did this mistake happen? Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard will be here with the very latest live.

Plus, anger and outrage after President Trump's racist remarks against immigrants from African nations and disparaging words for Haitians.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D-IL), MINORITY WHIP: Hate-filled, vile, and racist.

TAPPER: And now the first Haitian-American elected to Congress is demanding an apology. Republican Congresswoman Mia Love is here for an exclusive interview.

President Trump's vulgar comments may derail a bipartisan immigration deal...

REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Very unfortunate, unhelpful.

TAPPER: ... to give legal status to undocumented immigrants known as dreamers.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: How much more reality do people have to face?

TAPPER: But President Trump says, no wall, no deal.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's got to include the wall. We need the wall for security.

TAPPER: Can a compromise be reached? (END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union, especially in Hawaii, is a bit traumatized.

We saw panic and confusion in paradise Saturday after a false message was sent out over radio, television, and cell phones warning: "Ballistic missile threat inbound to Hawaii. Seek immediate shelter. This is not a drill."

It took 38 minutes before a second message went out telling residents and tourists that the alert had been sent in error.

The incident prompted immediate anger and outrage from state leaders, Hawaii Senator Brian Schatz calling it an abomination, the governor of Hawaii saying the false alarm was totally unacceptable.

Officials blame human error for the mistake, saying an employee pressed the wrong button during a shift change.

The frightening false alarm adds to the stress Hawaiians are already feeling over the escalating nuclear tensions between the U.S. and North Korea.

I want to get straight to Democratic Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard of Hawaii. She's also a veteran and member of the House Armed Services Committee.

Congresswoman, first, how are people in Hawaii doing? That must have been unbelievably traumatic.

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: I think traumatic understates the experience that the people of Hawaii went through yesterday, getting that alert that went out to over a million cell phones all across the state, to speak of the visitors who were there who got that same alert, saying an incoming missile is headed your way, take shelter, this is not a drill.

Hawaii has just started, a few months ago, these monthly nuclear attack sirens as a test and telling people, hey, you have got -- you hear this siren, you have got 15 minutes to seek shelter.

So, when the people of Hawaii got this message yesterday, they're literally going through this feeling of, I have got minutes to find my loved ones, to say my last goodbyes, to figure out, where could I possibly find shelter that would protect them from a nuclear attack, and not having an answer to those questions.

This was unacceptable that this happened. But it really highlights the stark reality that the people of Hawaii are facing.

TAPPER: And you were telling me about parents who had to decide which child they were going to spend their last minutes with.

GABBARD: Yes. I mean, I was hearing from people all across the state yesterday, telling me what they went through when they got that alert. And one was a father who had two kids who were in different places on the island. And he had, in those seconds, to make a decision about which of his children he was going to go and spend the last minutes of his life with.

TAPPER: That's so awful.

I think a lot of people are, in addition to being deeply touched -- and I hope the people of Hawaii know how much the rest of us in the other 49, how seriously we take it and how horrible we feel.

But I think a lot of people are surprised that this could happen because one person touched one button.

GABBARD: Yes.

TAPPER: Now, you sit on the House committee on -- Armed Services Readiness Subcommittee. Shouldn't there be more safeguards than one person touching one button?

GABBARD: Absolutely.

The fact that these processes failed so epically that caused this trauma, that caused this terror all across the state of Hawaii must be fixed immediately. And those responsible for this happening need to be held accountable, making sure that this cannot, it cannot happen again.

TAPPER: I think there are a lot of people out there -- and I don't want to be flip about this.

I think there are a lot of people out there who are happy that this at least didn't happen while President Trump was watching "FOX & Friends," and, instead, it happened when he was out on the golf course, and he was informed about this by layers of advisers and such, because we know that, historically, misunderstandings and false alarms have almost led to nuclear confrontation, nuclear war.

[09:05:18]

GABBARD: Right.

TAPPER: Are you at all worried about the fact that an accident, a misunderstanding might lead to something like this?

GABBARD: There's no question.

And that really highlights the global consequence of what Hawaii just went through yesterday. This is not just about what happened to Hawaii. And this is where I really hope that people across the country, that leaders here in Washington are paying attention to what people went through and what the consequences of that can be.

So, we are facing a very direct nuclear threat from North Korea. By the way, we also are the country, with Russia, where we have thousands of nuclear weapons pointed at each other that could be launched within a moment's notice.

So, understanding what is at stake here when we're talking about nuclear war and the threat of nuclear war hanging over our heads, it's not just the president making a decision to launch a nuclear weapon. It's these kinds of mistakes that we have seen happen in the past that bring us to this brink of nuclear war that could be unintentional. And that's really what is at stake here for the people of Hawaii.

And what makes me angry is, yes, that this false alarm went out, and we have to fix that in Hawaii. But, really, we have got to get to the underlying issue here of, why are the people of Hawaii and this country facing a nuclear threat coming from North Korea today? And what is this president doing urgently to eliminate that threat?

TAPPER: Now, you have said that he's taking too long to deal with this and he's not taking the threat from North Korea seriously. What do you want President Trump to be doing?

GABBARD: Well, I have been talking about the seriousness of this threat for years, since I have came hear to Congress.

And I have been calling on President Trump to directly negotiate with North Korea, to sit across the table from Kim Jong-un, work out the differences, so that we can build a pathway towards denuclearization to remove this threat.

There's a few things that have to happen in order for those negotiations to be successful. First of all, they have to happen without preconditions. And this has been a learned lesson from the decades of failed leadership that the people of Hawaii are paying the price for now, where they set these unrealistic preconditions, for example, saying North Korea, we're only going to talk to you if you first get rid of your nuclear weapons.

What would be the point of having a conversation if they get rid of their nuclear weapons?

TAPPER: Yes.

GABBARD: There would be nothing to talk about at that point.

But the second issue is understanding why North Korea has developed and is holding on so tightly to these nuclear weapons, because they see it as the only deterrent against the U.S. coming in and overthrowing their regime there.

So, that exists as a result, again, of our decades-long regime change or policies around the world, that North Korea is now in a position where Kim Jong-un is saying, no way, I'm not going to give up these nuclear weapons, because he doesn't see that credible message coming from the United States that we don't -- we're not interested in overthrowing your government. We're interested in removing this nuclear threat from our country and the world.

TAPPER: Congresswoman Gabbard, we always like having you on the show. And I'm really sorry it was under these conditions.

Please convey to the people of Hawaii how much the rest of us care about what happened.

GABBARD: Thank you.

TAPPER: Thank you so much.

The only Haitian-American in Congress is demanding an apology from President Trump after his reported comments denigrating Haitian- Americans and calling African nations by a derogatory slur. Has the congresswoman heard from President Trump?

Republican Congresswoman Mia Love will be here exclusively next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:12:33]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

In a new tweet Sunday morning, President Trump reinforced the kind of immigrants he wants to bring into the United States, saying -- quote -- "I, as president, want people coming into our country who are going to help us to become strong and great again, people coming in through a system based on merit. No more lotteries. America first" -- unquote.

Parents watching at home, you might want to hit the mute button for the next 20 seconds, because I'm about to quote the president's remarks.

This new tweet comes after a week in which the president reportedly made degrading remarks in the Oval Office, a source telling me that the president said -- quote -- "Haitians, why do we need more Haitians?" and calling African nations, all 54 of them, "shithole countries," before suggesting the U.S. may benefit from more immigrants from places such as Norway.

One might observe, of course, that coming from Norway is not a particular skill.

Here now to respond directly to the president is Republican Congresswoman Mia Love of Utah. She's the first Haitian-American elected to Congress.

Congresswoman, thanks so much for being here.

I want to start, of course, with the president's comments about Haiti and African nations.

Your parents are immigrants from Haiti. You were the first Haitian American elected to the United States Congress. How did it feel to hear those comments from the president? REP. MIA LOVE (R), UTAH: Well, Jake, I can't defend the indefensible.

You have to understand that there are -- there are countries that do struggle out there, but their people, their people are good people. And they're part of -- they're part of us. We're Americans.

You have to understand that my parents, they came from Haiti. They worked hard. They paid their taxes. When they pledged their allegiance to the American flag and became U.S. citizens, they meant every word of it, and they did everything they could to take on not just the benefits, but the responsibilities of what it meant to be an American citizen.

And you have to understand I'm a product of that. I am the American dream. That's who we are. Those are not just American values, but they're certainly Utah values. And they're values that we all hold dear.

So, it was really -- it was really difficult to hear, especially because my parents were such big supporters of the president. And I think that we have to do everything we can to make sure that we are coming from a place of compassion and we're speaking from a place of kindness.

I mean, that is the -- that is the, at least, minimal standard here.

TAPPER: You're calling for President Trump to apologize. He obviously hasn't done so on Twitter. Have you heard from him at all?

LOVE: Well, the White House did reach out. They would like to meet with us. I don't know what is going to be said, what is going to be done.

[09:15:06]

I hope that we are actually going to work on fixing DACA. You have to understand we cannot let this derail us. I think the worst thing that can happen right now is for DACA, for there not to be a fix at all. There are people that are depending on us, not just Americans on border security, but families that are waiting, that are in limbo, that need something that a president can't give or take away from them.

We have to find a way to fix the immigration issue, fix the DACA issue. And we can't let this derail us.

I am -- I think that the worst thing that could happen from anyone is to make -- is to let this go away and, all of a sudden, we leave these families in limbo.

TAPPER: I want to get to DACA and the dreamers in a second.

But I do want to ask you, because I remember talking to you during the 2016 campaign...

LOVE: Yes. TAPPER: ... when President Trump was making a direct appeal to

Haitian-American voters. There's a sizable community in Florida.

LOVE: Yes.

TAPPER: He really was going after their vote.

How do you think those Haitian-Americans feel today?

LOVE: Well, I think that there's a little bit of explaining to do.

You're absolutely right. I helped when it came to that issue. There was some issues with the Clinton Foundation and what happened in Haiti. And I brought -- I brought all of those things up.

They wanted someone who was going to be able to help and treat them like Americans. I mean, there are Haitian-Americans that are here that are citizens that contribute to our society, and not just contribute to our economy, but also help Haiti and their families there too.

So, we had a lot of people that were supporting the president and the vice president. My mom and my dad actually spoke to Vice President Mike Pence and told them that they were praying for him, that they were doing everything they can to support him.

And so this was very -- it was heartbreaking for them.

TAPPER: This weekend marked the anniversary of that devastating earthquake that struck Haiti eight years ago.

The Trump administration announced in November that, by July 2019, it wants to end the protected status designation for Haitians in the U.S. granted after the earthquake. That, of course, protects individuals from deportation, and authorizes them to work in the United States.

I know you want to change his mind, because Haiti is still reeling from that earthquake.

LOVE: Right.

TAPPER: Do you think you can? Do you think it's possible to change his mind on this?

LOVE: Well, I think that one of the things we need to do is get people like me in the room.

There are so many people that are -- that -- frankly, I want to just make sure that everyone knows that I don't know if those comments would have been made if I were actually in the room. There are so many people that really care about this issue, Will Hurd, Carlos Curbelo, people on both sides of the aisle, that should have been in that room talking about DACA.

So, that's -- that's the first thing. We have to make sure that we have the right people in the room talking about these issues. Two, I do -- I think that there's room. I'm hoping that the president

will work with me to actually get things done. There's a lot of healing. There's a lot of -- I still think that he should apologize. I think that there are people that are looking for an apology. And I think that that would show real leadership.

But, again, the worst thing that can happen is not getting something done on immigration and letting this slide and, all of a sudden, leaving these families in limbo. We have to do our jobs. We're elected to go to Washington to get things done. And not getting things done is no excuse. I think that it would be a failure on all of our parts.

TAPPER: Speaking of leadership, I have to observe, Republican leaders have been pretty quiet about these comments, which I know a lot of people feel are just empirically racist and offensive.

Are you disappointed?

LOVE: I will be disappointed if we get nothing done. I think that people don't know what to say at this point.

You know, I feel like it's my job, as a representative of the House, also my responsibility in my faith, to call out when something is wrong, to praise the president when something -- when he does something right, and to call him out when I think that -- when something's wrong.

And I feel like my job is to, again, do everything I can to do something to help these families and to make sure that we are securing and helping Americans by securing the border. We can get this done.

When Americans come into a room and they talk about what they're for, that's American democracy at its best. And we need to make sure that both sides aren't using this for political gain and we do our job and fix this issue.

If we do not, that will be a failure on all of our parts.

TAPPER: I'm going to ask you about the dreamers and DACA after this last question on the president's comments.

What do you say to the Haitian-American who comes to you and says, Congresswoman, I think the president is racist?

LOVE: Well, here's what I say.

[09:20:01]

My parents have always taught me not to be a victim. My parents have taught me that, no matter what somebody else feels, that's their problem, not mine, that I'm not the one that's flawed when somebody feels some way about me because of the way I look or my gender or whatever that is.

So, I think that, at this point, we can't look to Washington. We can't look to the president to tell us how to behave, how to feel. We have to be respectful.

We are responsible for who we are and how we behave. And when history looks back at us, they will judge us for whether we were able to rise to the occasion and rise above the negativity or whether we wallowed in it and allowed it to take us down.

TAPPER: The president...

LOVE: That's what I would say.

TAPPER: The president's comments, of course, come as lawmakers are trying to get a deal done on DACA and the dreamers, as you have noted.

You have said that you want legislative solutions for the dreamer. On Friday, the president threw out a deal brought to him, saying that it didn't properly fund the wall and it made what he calls chain migration and the diversity lottery -- quote -- "worse."

Do you think that there should be a clean bill on dreamers, just on dreamers, with no border wall funding or anything else?

LOVE: I think we have to have something that is comprehensive. We have to have something that is bipartisan.

We have to have give a little. We have to make sure that everyone, all of these interested parties, are in the room talking about what's good for the American people and what's good for our country.

So, I think we have to do more. We have to make sure that we get as many opinions in the room as possible. And, again, if we focus on what we are for, and we come in the room, and we talk about the things that will help this country, I think we can come up with a solution.

But we have to put emotions aside and make sure that we are doing right by the people who have elected us to be here.

TAPPER: And it's obviously tough for a lot of people to put emotions aside when such horrific expressions...

(CROSSTALK)

LOVE: It is difficult.

It's difficult for me. But, you know -- but I think it would be, again, a failure on all of our parts if something doesn't happen. I am determined to do everything I can to be part of the solution, and do what I can to say -- to keep the promises that I made to the people who have represented -- who have elected me.

TAPPER: Were the comments racist, do you think?

LOVE: Well, I think they were -- yes. I think that they were unfortunate. I don't know if they were taken -- I wasn't in the room. I know the comments were made. I don't know in which context they were made. I'm looking forward to finding out what happened, but, more

importantly, I'm looking forward to trying to fix the problem. I think we need to -- we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard.

TAPPER: All right, well, best of luck solving the problem. We really appreciate your being here this morning, Congresswoman. Thank you so much.

LOVE: Thank you.

TAPPER: Have immigration talks hit a wall? The president says Democrats are all talk and no action.

But my next guest is a Democrat who says you would have to pick President Trump off the floor if he ever tried to intimidate him.

Former Governor of Virginia Terry McAuliffe will be here next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:27:18]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

The president's derogatory remarks last week are complicating already difficult negotiations for an immigration bill, as you just heard from Congresswoman Mia Love.

But the president is blaming Democrats for the impasse, tweeting this morning: "DACA is probably dead because the Democrats don't really want it. They just want to talk and take desperately needed money away from our military" -- unquote.

The push to reach a deal on the dreamers, or DACA, the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, comes as the deadline to fund the government is approaching in just a few days.

Joining us now is the now former -- that's the first time I have said this -- now former...

TERRY MCAULIFFE (D), FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: First time I have heard it.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Now former Democratic Governor of Virginia Terry McAuliffe.

His successor, Democrat Ralph Northam, was sworn in yesterday.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Former governor.

No, I will just call you governor. I will just call you governor. MCAULIFFE: Yes, 12:32 yesterday, it was over.

TAPPER: I feel like it's mean for me to say former.

But, Governor, I want to start...

MCAULIFFE: Yes.

TAPPER: ... by getting your reaction to the president's comments calling African countries what he called them, S-hole countries, saying that he would prefer immigrants from Norway, saying we have enough Haitians in the country.

What's your response?

MCAULIFFE: Disgraceful, disgusting.

He just continues to hurt the prestige of the United States of America. Many people from -- folks from those countries serve in our military today. They're wearing the cloth of our country, fighting for our nation.

He's put our soldiers in harm around the globe. We have many folks deployed in very dangerous situations, including my son.

Everybody in the military in very hot spot regions, they hear the president of the United States making these comments, it puts them in harm's way. It puts our diplomats around the globe in harm's way.

He is the president of the United States of America. That comes with responsibility of moral leadership. You are the beacon of hope for so many countries around the globe.

He embarrasses us.

TAPPER: So...

MCAULIFFE: Childish, embarrassing. You're taught not to treat people that way.

But to refer to all of these countries, who we do trade with, we do a lot of business -- as I say, folks from those countries are wearing the cloth of our country fighting for us.

TAPPER: Yes.

MCAULIFFE: He's an embarrassment.

TAPPER: So, after the Charlottesville horror, which took place while you were governor...

MCAULIFFE: Yes.

TAPPER: ... and the president said there were very fine people on both sides, including marching with Nazis...

MCAULIFFE: Yes.

TAPPER: ... you criticized him for -- quote -- "dividing people."

But I wonder if you feel even stronger than that. Do you think President Trump is a racist?

MCAULIFFE: I certainly think he makes racist comments.

In Charlottesville, he should have done the right thing. I talked to him in the afternoon, explained to him what had happened at Charlottesville.

These weren't both sides. We had neo-Nazis wearing swastikas and T- shirts of Adolf Hitler. We had white supremacists saying the most vile things about African-Americans and members of the Jewish faith. It wasn't both sides.

The other side was there to protest against hatred.

Heather Heyer, 32 years old, lost her life in downtown Charlottesville protesting against hatred. I lost two state troopers that day. This was not both sides. It was one side.

[09:30:06]

And the president continuously gets it wrong. And he comes down on the wrong side of justice, on equality, and fairness. And he continually disparages individuals, he mocks people, he mocks individuals, disparages Gold Star mothers.

He's got to understand this is a grown-up job. And he's got to start acting like it.

TAPPER: On Friday, the president rejected a deal from the so-called Senate gang of six.

Take a look at what he tweeted about the agreement -- quote -- "The so-called bipartisan DACA deal presented yesterday to myself and a group of Republican senators and congressmen was a big step backwards. Wall was not properly funded. Chain and lottery were made worse. And USA would be forced to take large numbers of people from high-crime countries which are doing badly. I want a merit-based system of immigration and people who will help take our country to the next level."

Now, there are roughly 12,000 dreamers in your home Commonwealth of Virginia, recipients of this program DACA.

Should Democrats make the deal with the president, give him money for the border wall, make some changes to the immigration system in order to help the roughly, I think it's like 600,000 nationally, and 14,000 in Virginia, dreamers?

MCAULIFFE: First of all, Jake, we are there.

This -- first off, this is the president's fault. You have vast agreement between the Democrats and Republicans. If you put a bill up Tuesday, they would vote for it. It would overwhelmingly pass; 85 percent of Americans support it; 79 percent of Republicans in the United States of America support this.

So, the votes are there to do it. Put the bill up, sensible border protections, and protect the DACA folks. You know, since this came in...

TAPPER: But no larger changes to immigration, chain migration or lottery, not...

MCAULIFFE: Yes, it...

TAPPER: That would not be part of the deal that you're talking about?

MCAULIFFE: Yes, let's be very careful. These are all poll-tested.

You know, merit-based, we want the best and brightest to come here.

Chain migration, what does that mean? Well, it means you get to bring a spouse, a child, or a parent here.

So, you know, they're doing their poll testing. We want fair immigration in this country. We want to protect, of course, our borders. We all want to do that.

But a vast majority of Americans are for this. They want to see it get done. And this is the president -- and the president wants it. He said to Dianne Feinstein in the meeting in the White House the other day. She asked for a clean bill. He said, yes, I want it.

Then Kevin McCarthy had to say, oh, no, Mr. President, you really don't know what you're talking about, dot, dot, dot, dot.

He wants it. He is being run by Stephen Miller. The president -- what does the president want? He wants a deal to announce. And he wants his approval ratings to go up.

Well, when 90 percent of Americans support the program, you have a deal with Democrats and Republicans today -- 34 Republicans in the House have signed a letter they will support this. Let's just get it done, because we have already lost 15,000. We're losing 120,000 dreamers a day.

And if we don't do this, on March 6, it goes to 1,200 per day.

TAPPER: Well, when you say losing them, they're not -- they're not being deported from the country.

MCAULIFFE: Losing their work permits.

TAPPER: Their work permits.

MCAULIFFE: But the process then begins. They lose their work permit.

And here's the problem. If we delay this after this Friday, you know, USCIS, you know, it takes 60 to 90 days on this application process. And once you get to March 6, then, as I say, you're losing 1,200 a day. You're looking at 35,000 dreamers per month. That could be over 100,000 by the time actually it would take.

Stop the politics. Democrats want it. Republicans want it. Bring a bill up on Tuesday, sensible border protections, and protect the dreamers.

TAPPER: The head of the Center for American Progress Action Fund, a progressive group, put out a memo saying -- quote -- "The fight to protect dreamers is not only a moral competitive. It's also a critical component of the Democratic Party's future electoral success."

In addition to being the former governor of Virginia, you're the former leader of the Democratic national party.

For Democrats, which is the bigger risk politically, just the politics of it, not doing everything they can to make a deal to protect the dreamers, including things they don't like, some changes to immigration, border wall money...

MCAULIFFE: Yes.

TAPPER: ... or doing everything they can to make it a clean bill?

Which imperative is more important? Do you -- do you understand what I'm saying?

MCAULIFFE: First of all, the most important imperative is to protect these dreamers.

TAPPER: Even if it means swallowing some things you don't like?

MCAULIFFE: Well, there are some things we can do on sensible border protection, of course.

Listen, I just finished four years as governor. We had a very successful record. I had to compromise on a lot of different issues. Our economy in Virginia is doing great today.

But you don't get everything you want. But compromise, to me, absolutely protect these dreamers. Now, if we have got to do some sensible border protections in it, fine. But we need to do it.

And you mentioned political. You mentioned the moral issue. But there's an economic issue here. If we don't protect these 800,000 dreamers, it will cost the U.S. economy $460 billion over the next decade.

So, if you're sitting home today, it's going to hurt our economy. We're doing something I would conceive as very immoral. Do the right thing. Congress, start doing something.

And the president wants it. He's said he wanted it. So, go ahead and do it. Forget Stephen Miller. Stephen Miller did not get elected president

of the United States of America.

Mr. Trump, if you're watching today, you know what the right thing is. And just do it.

TAPPER: I want to ask you. In an interview on MSNBC this week, you were asked a question about how President Trump has these intimidation tactics, how he seemed to stand too close to Hillary Clinton during the debates.

You were asked how you would respond if you -- did that.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Take a listen.

MCAULIFFE: Yes, sir.

[09:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "HARDBALL WITH CHRIS MATTHEWS")

MCAULIFFE: You would have to pick him up off the floor.

If he ever came over and leaned on me and got in my space, that would be the last time Donald Trump ever did that, I promise you that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, that does sound that you were saying that, if he came too close to you, you would use physical violence.

MCAULIFFE: Well, it was the way Chris had set it up, got in your space, intimidated, Godzilla-like tactics, leaning on top of you.

I answered the question like I think most folks would actually answer the question. I didn't say punch. Maybe if I had to push him back gently and he fell down on his own right.

But the point of this is, I'm sick and tired of Donald Trump attacking everybody, women, everybody, Gold Star families. He intimidates people. And people need to stand up and punch him back, punch him back rhetorically. Enough is enough.

He gets away with all of this foolishness. I just saw a story the other day. Two thousand statements that he has made since he's been president have been just out-and-out lies.

TAPPER: Are you going to...

MCAULIFFE: Enough is enough.

TAPPER: Are you going to challenge him in 2020?

MCAULIFFE: What I'm going to do this year, 36 governors are going to take a big lead. I'm doing a big project on redistricting. That will be my focus on '18. And we will see what happens after that.

But could you imagine, you know, hypothetically, if that ever happened? You would have to sell tickets to that debate.

TAPPER: That would be...

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: That would be enjoyable.

MCAULIFFE: But I'm focused on this.

TAPPER: But you're focused on that. But you're thinking about a debate with President Trump.

(CROSSTALK)

MCAULIFFE: Well, I think -- I think everybody sits around and dreams about a debate of President Trump and how much fun that could actually be.

The truth -- get the truth out there. Let the facts speak for themselves.

TAPPER: OK.

I'm not going to qualify this as you throwing your hat in the ring, but -- but there's a hat there.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: Governor, Governor McAuliffe, thank you so much.

MCAULIFFE: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: I really appreciate your being here.

It's been three days since President Trump's reported remarks on immigrants from Haiti and other African countries and still silence from Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell.

How are other Republicans responding? We're going to talk to a former member of President George W. Bush's cabinet who's an immigrant himself. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:40:53]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. RAPHAEL WARNOCK, EBENEZER BAPTIST CHURCH: To sign a proclamation honoring Dr. King hours after this kind of hate-filled speech makes a mockery of Dr. King.

I would argue that a proclamation without an apology is hypocrisy. There is no redemption without repentance and the president of the United States needs to repent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was Reverend Raphael Warnock speaking on this Martin Luther King Jr. weekend at the Ebenezer Baptist Church. That's the same pulpit where Dr. King used to preach. Our panel is with me now.

And, Karine, coincidentally, even though we'd already booked you, you're a Haitian American and I'm wondering about what you felt when you heard that the president said, why do we need more Haitians? We don't need more Haitians, and referred to African countries as he did.

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, SENIOR ADVISER, MOVEON.ORG: Yes. Well, Jake, I have to tell you that my heart aches for the U.S., the country that I call home, and also for Haiti, the land of my ancestors. Because you have a president who doesn't -- who believes that if you're not white then you're not welcomed here.

He believes that he wants to build a wall. He believes that he wants to ban Muslims. He thinks that Mexicans are rapists.

We heard how he feels about where black people come from, in particular, Haiti, and African nations. And it just -- it just pains me.

I heard from a lot of family and friends who are Haitian American this week and who are crying, because they couldn't believe that the president of the United States were using this word. And just before you showed that clip of the reverend, you know, we are on the eve of Martin Luther King day. And 24 hours after he made those comments, he, you know, signed the proclamation declaring Dr. King day.

But the thing that Donald Trump doesn't understand and many others don't understand is that Dr. King believed in welcoming strangers, in protecting the poor. In treating people with dignity, human beings with dignity, and, you know, Donald Trump stands against everything that Dr. King stood for. And it's an embarrassment.

TAPPER: Secretary Gutierrez, you were George W. Bush's commerce secretary but came on the show and endorsed Hillary Clinton. Is this kind of racial sentiment that you hear from president Trump, then candidate-Trump, is that why you endorsed her?

CARLOS GUTIERREZ, FORMER SECRETARY OF COMMERCE UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH: There are many reasons why, including policy.

I think the problem with his statement is that it betrays any knowledge of U.S. history. This country was built by people who came from lesser-developed countries and -- in search of the American dream and they wanted to strive, they wanted to work hard. So I -- that's not what made America great.

The second thing, I would say is, the insinuation that if these DACA kids were from Norway, that they would be accepted or that the problem would have already been solved, I think that's painful. I think that hurts. That hurts people around the world. It hurts (ph) these kids. It hurts a lot of Americans.

Third thing I will say as a life-long Republican, we all like to invoke Ronald Reagan. I can't imagine Ronald Reagan saying something like this.

TAPPER: Senator Santorum?

RICK SANTORUM, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Donald Trump is not Ronald Reagan. And -- but Donald Trump is someone who is focused in his campaign, on trying to help the working men and women in this country who have been left behind by both Republicans and Democrats.

And he speaks like a lot of the people that he's representing. He doesn't speak in ways that I find acceptable. And this is one of those cases.

But to suggest that because he is intemperate and because he says things that are off-color, if you focus on what he's trying to accomplish with immigration reform, I think he's right on. I think he's right on in saying that we need to make sure that we're not bringing in -- this is not when my dad and my grandfather came over a hundred years -- almost a hundred years ago.

TAPPER: Why not?

SANTORUM: Because we had a very low-skill economy at that time. We actually were in need of workers at the turn of the last century, who were low-skilled workers. That is not the case anymore.

[09:45:00]

We did not -- we have record levels of immigration, we have over a million people coming into this country every year, most of whom are unskilled, most of whom are coming in through -- quote -- "chain migration. " It's not a merit-based system.

And you have Democrats and Republicans -- the four things the president has asked for, Democrat and Republicans agree to. Ending chain migration, getting rid of the visa lottery --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: -- I mean, having border security, and doing something about DACA. Those are reasonable things the president has put on the table.

TAPPER: Neera?

NEERA TANDEN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: The reality is this. The president did not say something about low- skilled migration or high-skilled migration. He basically said people from some countries are acceptable, that happen to be white, and some countries that aren't white are not acceptable. I think, it's incredible spin to make this argument that it's a about who comes from where. It's actually what he's saying -- America is the place it is because we don't say countries are good or bad. We talk about giving people hope and opportunity.

And America's best citizens are from all around the world. And it's not one class or another.

But let me just say one quick thing. There was a bipartisan deal --

JEAN-PIERRE: Yes.

TANDEN: It had Republicans like Lindsey Graham, Gardner, Flake, and a bunch of Democrats, too. You know, there were hard things on both sides there. But the president rejected it.

It would address DACA. It would address a range of issues. There were things in it that I wouldn't love, but willing to do.

He rejected a bipartisan deal brought to him by his own Republican senators, because he wants to make racial politics here. This is -- it's not just this issue. We're talking about Charlottesville, NFL ban, Muslim ban, all these issues --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: Hold on. As the one person defending the president here, it's three to one here, OK? So let me at least have --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: There are a lot of Republicans who --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: No, there are two Republicans, two Democrats.

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: The reality is, to suggest that this is racial politics is ridiculous --

TAPPER: Let me ask you --

(CROSSTALK)

TANDEN: Why is it ridiculous? Why is it ridiculous? It's not ridiculous.

JEAN-PIERRE: All Donald Trump sees is color. That's all he sees --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: And every policy that he puts forward is --

(CROSSTALK) GUTIERREZ: It's the policies --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: The policies he's proposing are not --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: They are. The Muslim ban is racial.

TANDEN: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTIERREZ: A DACA fix -- the president wants it --

TANDEN: Could have it --

JEAN-PIERRE: But he could have it --

GUTIERREZ: -- then do it.

TAPPER: Yes.

TANDEN: Tomorrow.

GUTIERREZ: The idea that it's the Democrats' fault --

SANTORUM: That's ridiculous. There's no way --

(CROSSTALK)

TANDEN: He created this problem

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: No. Look, let's be real clear what the president has done. He has repealed TPS. He said, oh, no, I don't want it.

He repealed DACA. He said, oh, no, I don't want it. When he was presented by a bipartisan deal, and he said -- that was his excuse, oh, I want a bipartisan bill, that's the only way that we can move --

TAPPER: He wanted a bill of love.

JEAN-PIERRE: Exactly. A bill of love. And it was presented to him --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: -- it was presented to him and he just -- he didn't want it. What he wants --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: -- what he wants is that -- (CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: -- passed the House --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Hold on one second --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: -- he wants only Europeans to --

TAPPER: OK. Hold on. Let's just --

JEAN-PIERRE: -- to be immigrants here --

TAPPER: Let's hold on for one second. Secretary?

GUTIERREZ: Jake, look back at the history of immigration reform. I was very involved in 2006. And I'll tell you this, I think the Democrats killed that deal.

TAPPER: In 2006?

GUTIERREZ: In 2006. Through poison pills. Republicans have killed deals.

If we don't get DACA fixed, the blame goes to Democrats, the blame goes to Republicans, and the blame goes to the president.

TANDEN: Democrats want to have a deal right now. The reality is --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTIERREZ: We've heard that before.

TANDEN: If Donald Trump supported Lindsey Graham's bill with Durbin, it would pass the House.

JEAN-PIERRE: It would.

TANDEN: It is outrageous to say he couldn't pass the bill.

JEAN-PIERRE: It's so true.

GUTIERREZ: That's true.

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: Overwhelming bipartisan support --

TAPPER: Let me ask you.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I understand. You were saying, let's not talk about his words, which you have said, you found it abhorrent --

SANTORUM: Look, I'm not arguing the words.

TAPPER: Let's talk about the deal, OK, I get that. But the president, you would grant this, by saying he, why are we taking all these people from these blank countries like Africa, we need more people from Norway --

SANTORUM: (INAUDIBLE).

TAPPER: -- but we need more people countries like Norway, that is not arguing in favor of a merit-based system.

TANDEN: Yes, it's not.

TAPPER: There's nothing about being born in Norway that is merit based.

SANTORUM: I'm saying that the president's words are wrong, unhelpful, and they also in my mind don't relate to the policies that he's putting forward. And that's the problem here. He's portraying this in a way that doesn't fit with what he's actually advocating.

GUTIERREZ: Jake, I think we tend to oversimplify.

I agree with you that we need a merit-based system. Sixty-six percent of our immigration structure is family reunification.

What people call chain migration. It doesn't mean it has to be zero.

TAPPER: Right.

SANTORUM: No one's suggesting --

GUTIERREZ: And we also don't need a central planning system to determine how many PhDs we need. That needs to be done in the marketplace. But we need farm workers and we need PhDs.

And -- now, the detail on immigration is incredibly complex. Our 2006 bill was 700 pages long. I understand that that's not the president's job. He needs to delegate the details.

But if I wanted a DACA fix, I wouldn't delegate it to Stephen Miller.

[09:50:00]

JEAN-PIERRE: Here's the -- here's the fact, if they were to put forth a bipartisan bill on the House it would pass overwhelmingly.

There is support to fix DACA. There is a support to have a clean DREAM Act. There is support out there.

Yes, there is. Not only that --

(CROSSTALK)

SANTORUM: -- in the Congress --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: In the congress there (ph) is (ph).

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Unfortunately we have to take a break. Thanks one and all. This issue is not -- great panel. I appreciate you all being here.

It's no secret that President Trump watches a lot of cable news but there might be an old sitcom that the president is following even more closely. And that is the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back.

This week the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee told me that the nation would be better served if President Trump watched cartoons instead of "Fox & Friends." But some recent statements suggest that executive time might be better spent binging on "All in the Family." And that's the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): The comparisons repeatedly been made between the President Trump and that other legendary older white man from Queens, Archie Bunker from the 70's sitcom "All in the Family."

ARCHIE BANKER, "ALL IN THE FAMILY" CHARACTER: The country is going straight into the dump.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: It might be worth pondering what a President Bunker might look like. First, one would have to start with candidate Archie Bunker.

BUNKER: I'm so sick of Washington and all its works. Well, the Democrats way of ruining this country is to go tell us how we all have to make sacrifices but they're all going to have us over the hill to the poor house.

TAPPER: With his tell it like it is style, President Bunker would no doubt cause trouble with U.S. allies such as France.

BUNKER: Let me tell you this to the French.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: He might even risk alienating the Pope.

BUNKER: I ain't got no respect for no religion where the head guy claims he can't make no mistake.

[09:55:02]

You know, like he's what do (ph) you call? Inflammable.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: President Bunker would no doubt have controversial views about immigration.

BUNKER: You don't know anything about Lady Liberty, standing there in the harbor, with her torch out high, screaming out to all nations of the world, send me your poor, your deadbeats, your filthy. And all the nations send them in here.

TAPPER: And similarly ignorant views on race.

BUNKER: If God has meant us to be together, he'd (ph) put us together. But look what he had done. He put you over in Africa, he put the rest of us in all the white countries.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: There was a time when those views were most prominent on a sitcom. Those were the days.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: In light of the president's vulgar remarks 55 nations are demanding an apology. The global reaction to President Trump's remarks, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)