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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Idiot Robber Locked Inside Crime Scene; Woman Found Dead Inside a Car. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired January 15, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
[18:00:00] S.E. CUPP, HOST, HLN: ... for your defense of the indefensible? That`s it for me. Crime and Justice is up next.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN: Good evening. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. It is six o`clock Eastern, and these are your headlines.
Former NBA star Dennis Rodman has been arrested for DUI. He was stopped in Southern California for a traffic violation and then held in jail on
Saturday night. His agent told CNN that he`s been dealing with, quote, "major personal issues and may be headed to rehab."
The father of a 3-year-old girl whose body was found in a Texas drainage ditch has now been charged officially with her murder. Wesley Mathews could
now be facing a death penalty after changing stories to the police. Saying back in October that little Sherin Mathews choked on her milk and initially
telling them that she just disappeared into the night.
Three Florida men are pleading not guilty to aggravated animal cruelty, though, they were caught on camera dragging a shark behind a speeding boat
and then laughing in a video. Understandably when you see that quickly went viral.
Those are the headlines. And another video is making some rounds tonight featuring a whole different kind of idiot who is facing a whole different
set of charges because he was caught on camera trying to rob a Houston cell phone shop with a gun.
Emphasis on the word "trying." Because a quick thinking employee did an end-run around the robber with the simplest of strategies. She locked him
into his own crime scene and it is almost delicious to see him unravel. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the register. Open it up. Open it now!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, don`t open.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m stuck in this (Inaudible) I`m going to jail.
I`m stuck in this (Inaudible)
Please, please, please. I have nothing. Please! Please! I have nothing. Please, please, please. I`m sorry. Please.
Help, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hands up! Get your hands up! On the ground! On the ground! All the way down!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That was fun. Isn`t it? When you just see it all wrapped up with a nice little bow right there on the crime scene?
[18:04:56] Jeff Boney is an associate editor for the Houston Forward Times, he joins me live. Now Jeff, that to me was like perfect. It was absolutely
perfect to see the imprisonment happen before the conviction because it`s all there on tape for us to see with our own eyes.
Is this playing as big in Houston as I would imagine it is?
JEFF BONEY, ASSOCIATE EDITOR, HOUSTON FORWARD TIMES: Actually it is. Dave Chappelle once had a skit called when keeping it real goes wrong. Well, I
guess we can this when trying to be an armed robbery goes wrong.
And so it is playing well here in Houston and it really -- you know, what really is sad for this gentleman of course, to many crimes like this, you
know, I mean, something that, you know, we don`t tolerate here in Texas particularly, when he was taken into custody, this guy also was on deferred
adjudication for 12 years for another aggravated robbery that occurred back in July of 2015.
So, I mean, when you talk about putting yourself in harm`s way, this is the prime example of it.
BANFIELD: So let`s be really clear for our viewers. You just told me that the guy on the tape who is clearly seen trying to shootout a lock who cares
who is on the other side of that glass.
We did just see a baby just moments before, but you know, shooting live rounds out of that glass door. The guy on the tape two years ago robbed
another business and was caught. And he is still out there on the streets able to do this at age 22 years old. First of all, just confirm that those
facts are true.
BONEY: Well, yes. That is absolutely correct. He was on deferred adjudication for 12 years from another aggravated robbery that occurred in
July 2015. He has been out here on the streets and who knows who else he has done prior to being imprisoned and of course we saw the video play out.
And you know, of course, you say putting other people in harm`s way. Who knows if those bullets could have went through that door. So he has been a
danger to society from that time clearly until now. And of course he...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: So, wait. Before you go on, this is -- this is quite something. This kid at age 22 is on 12 years deferred adjudication for an armed
robbery. He is clearly because my eyes are not lying, he is clearly robbing this cell phone store. I saw him walk towards the door with the big white
envelopes in his hand.
See this? Clear as day. And so, I understand that this thing has actually pled out. I`m not sure why. Because when you have something so beautifully
tied up in a bow, why across he would say, I`ll go with the plea deal, he only got five years.
My guess of which he may have to serve two and a half. So, two and a half years age say 24 and a half he`ll be back on the street again. Anything
wrong where those facts? Did I get any of that wrong, Jeffrey?
BONEY: No, absolutely. Back on December 18th, he pled guilty and took a plea deal with the Harris County District Attorney`s Office for five years.
So, he is serving that time in the TDCH which is Texas Department of Criminal Justice.
And you`re right, you know, because of the State of Texas, he is not going to have to serve day to day -- day for day. So he is going to actually be
out on the streets in less time.
BANFIELD: That just, you know, gets my blood boiling. Don`t go anywhere, Jeffrey. I want to bring in Karina Leon. Because as you watch the video,
Karina was the girl in the blue and white striped shirt who had the brilliant idea of getting everybody out of there and locking him inside his
own crime scene. Karina, can you hear me OK?
KARINA LEON, LOCKED ARMED ROBBER IN STORE: Yes, I hear you.
BANFIELD: First and foremost, how are you doing?
LEON: Good, thank you. I`m doing good.
BANFIELD: I mean, this is quite an experience to go through when an armed robber comes in and starts ordering you around with a baby and a mom in
front of you and the owner of the store`s wife also, you know, directly in the potential line of fire. I don`t think it`s lost on people that that`s
really tough to live through.
LEON: Yes, it actually is especially because it`s not the first time that he robbed me. It was -- it was the second time -- the second time that
month. So I actually had to go through it twice.
BANFIELD: Did they ever charge him with the first time that he robbed you as you say? Because we know about a 2015 incident in which he was
definitely convicted of an armed robbery and you are saying two weeks prior to the video we are seeing he did it to you again? Did they -- did they
just not find him or did they not know it was -- did they not know it was him?
LEON: Well, according to the cops, they told me that they found out it was him because we went through the first -- the first videotape from the first
robbery and it was -- it was three people on the first robbery.
[18:10:00] But we could tell like it was the same height, the same weight, the same like body resemblance and the same shoes. So I think that they
asked him and I think that he said yes according to what the cops told me. But I never heard anything about why they gave him only five years.
BANFIELD: So, Karina, even if it can`t be proven that he was the guy who did this to you two weeks ago, it is proven that he did this to someone
else in 2015. We can see him doing this to you in this video. And he got a plea deal for only five years in prison. He could be out in two and a half
years. How does that fit with you?
LEON: Well, I think they should have given him like more than five years because I think it wasn`t only just those robberies. I think he had like a
lot of other robberies in the same -- within the same area the cops told me. It was all armed robbery. So, it doesn`t make me feel very safe either.
BANFIELD: Well, we don`t have any proof of those and we don`t have charges for him involving other armed robberies, but just with what we know, it`s
extraordinarily distressing to know maybe in two and a half years he could walk free.
I want to just play, if I can, the moment where he actually brought out the gun and unloaded bullets into the door. And I`m guessing he was trying to
shootout the lock of that glass door. But I want to show our audience how brazen this man was with a loaded weapon. Not afraid to shoot. Be damned
who was on the other side. Take a look.
Yes. So, there is real tough guy thinks he`s got it all, right? He`s got a gun so he can do anything he wants to all of us. But this is how things
changed for him when he realized he was trapped like in a cage with no options other than becoming a blubbering idiot. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please, please. I have nothing. Please, please. Please! Please. Please, I have nothing. Please! Please! Please! Please! I`m sorry!
Please. Help, help, please. Help, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: He says I`m sorry, I`m sorry. But I think he is sorry that he was caught and caged. Karina, real quickly, were you on the outside of that
window, could you see all of this play out and did you see and hear those bullets fly?
LEON: Yes, we heard them. I tried to stay as far away as possible from the window, but yes, you could see that he was shooting and you could it hear
it as well.
BANFIELD: And what about that mom with the baby in the baby carriage. Was she anywhere near the line of fire?
LEON: Well, we were all outside, but I mean, you can tell that she was really, really, really scared especially because she had the baby. But,
yes, she saw everything as well.
BANFIELD: I am glad you`re OK. And I want to thank you for your quick thinking and for just being so smart as to lock him in knowing full well he
had no escape.
Karina, good luck going forward. Karina Leon, we really appreciate your actions and we`re glad you`re with us. And also my thanks to Jeffrey Boney
helping us to sort of muddle through all of the facts in that -- in that story.
We have an urgent manhunt to tell you about tonight. For the ex-boyfriend of a young California mom who was found dead in her car in a parking lot.
And that was just days after -- days after she had mysteriously disappeared.
[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Yesterday in Woodland, California police got a call about a car in a parking lot which is a perfect place for a car to be except for when
there is a dead body inside. And except when that body turned out to be a young mom just 21 years old who had been missing for nearly a week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA QUINTERO, VICTIM`S FRIEND: I think it`s really worse, because it`s not like her. She is really, really nice. Ridiculous how nice she is and
she really has great smile. I`m afraid she is hurt somewhere and can`t get to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: How Karen Garcia died remains a mystery tonight. As the police remaining tight lipped on the evidence that they`ve been able to gather so
far. But we do know a few things. That police believe foul play was definitely involve and that her ex is now a wanted man.
[18:20:00] The same ex-who spoke to local reporters the day after she was reported missing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALVADOR GARCIA, SUSPECT: She got in her car and she took off. Just in a rush to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, that wasn`t the only thing he said. More on that in a moment. First, Macy Jenkins is a reporter with CNN affiliate KOVR and she
joins me live from Sacramento. OK, so first things first, Macy. Where is Salvador Garcia, Jr., this ex-boyfriend who police are seeking? Do they
have any clues?
MACY JENKINS, REPORTER, KOVR: Police have no idea, Ashleigh. And thank you for having me. You know, they say that there`s -- this is a full on manhunt
for Salvador Garcia right now. All of their resources are directed towards trying to find him.
Woodland P.D. has surveillance video that they are pulling from all of the shopping in the area where they found the car. At this point they have no
idea and they haven`t seen him since Friday.
BANFIELD: OK. So what`s interesting is that before maybe he knew and the rest of us knew, that he in fact is a suspect and the police are telling us
he is a suspect in this case, police are also telling us that they have probably cause to arrest him in this case.
JENKINS: Right.
BANFIELD: Police also saying they found blood in his vehicle and her apartment before maybe all of that was known. There was this interview that
you conducted with him the day after, I believe, she went missing. So I want to play that, Macy, if I can.
JENKINS: OK.
BANFIELD: Because I think it can be very telling to see his comfort, his demeanor. Maybe that`s difference now that he is a wanted man, but have a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: So Monday morning did you see her leaving the apartment?
GARCIA: Yes. She got in her car and she took off.
JENKINS: How did she seem?
GARCIA: Just -- just in a rush to get out. Yes.
JENKINS: Did she say where she was going?
GARCIA: No. She said I`m taking off. I thought she was going to her mom`s house. And I didn`t hear anything from her until about 6. I told her I was
going to drop off the baby with her mom. She said OK. That was the last thing.
And the next day I tried calling her and sending her message to let her know her mom was worried. No reply. I tried calling her multiple times
throughout the day. No response. The phone rings, but no answer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK, Macy. Any spidey senses for you tingling during that interview and the tears that seem to be tears, were they tears. What was
your overall assessment of him?
JENKINS: Ashleigh, I have to tell you, we did not intend to interview him initially. We were speaking with friends and co-workers of Karen and they
gave him a call and said, you know, Macy is there. I want you to talk to her. He rushed over with the baby. With the 2-year-old.
And I said would you mind speaking with me and he sat down and he was more than happy to answer all my questions. And the moment when he really
started to get emotional was when I talked about Karen as a mother and whether or not she would leave her 2-year-old child.
And he just started to get choked up and he was crying. And it -- I have to tell you, it seemed genuine then. We talked about pictures, he sent me
pictures of the two of them. They went to a game together with the baby. The three of them together.
And I asked them if -- I asked him if they were together and he said no, they weren`t together, but her friends didn`t believe she was dating anyone
else and they still shared this apartment together.
BANFIELD: SO what we`ve got is,we`ve got Karen Garcia on January 9th, the day she goes missing. She sends a text to her sister and she says to her
sister, "Hey, I`m at Roseville and Vacaville today. I have to run some errands. I`ll be back late tonight. OK."
And then there is a text to a friend. And the text to her friend is actually in response to the friend asking do you need anything. Karen
responds back "no, I`m in Roseville. Needed some busy time. Yes, I needed some time to myself."
JENKINS: Right.
BANFIELD: So, is it -- is it thought that there was a break up? Because the police seem to think that she was pushing for a break up with this fella.
And that he was not. And that this whole notion of the text thing, "I need some busy time, some time to myself" is him getting -- is her getting away
from him and maybe he wasn`t thrilled about all of that.
JENKINS: And you know, that could be the case. When I talked to Salvador and he said that the last time he saw her was that Monday when she rushed
out of the apartment. That could have been some kind of fight. We don`t know at this point.
But when the texts stopped coming, her friend, her sister they got very nervous. And that`s the point where they said I don`t see her going off
overnight somewhere that is 50 miles away. Colusa, Woodland and Roseville are not close to each other.
[18:24:58] BANFIELD: OK. There is also this -- there is also this very sad twist, OK, as if this weren`t sad enough for Karen and her family.
JENKINS: Right.
BANFIELD: The sister that she texted is still alive.
JENKINS: Right.
BANFIELD: There is another sister who is not.
JENKINS: Right.
BANFIELD: And that other sister was killed in a head on car crash just a day prior. If I`m not mistaken, a day prior...
(CROSSTALK)
JENKINS: It`s a day before Sunday.
BANFIELD: ... to Karen disappearing. Let me just quickly bring in Art Roderick on this, because he is the CNN law enforcement and the former
assistant director of the U.S. Marshals.
Art, the fact that there was this car accident it seems so incredibly random, it`s unrelated.
ART RODERICK, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, CNN: Yes.
BANFIELD: You know, this victim, this Karen Garcia who was found dead in a car with blood in her apartment and blood in her boyfriend`s car, her ex-
boyfriend. Her sister was killed the day before in a car crash. Does this complicate anything for the authorities who are on the hunt for this
missing Salvador Garcia, Jr.?
RODERICK: I don`t think it complicates it, but it could be a reason why she wanted to have some me time away. I mean, I just can`t imagine what this
family is going through having two of their daughters killed and sisters killed in back to back days here.
This is a horrible crime. I mean, for him to come out and speak as he did, I think a lot of that probably has to do with guilt in knowing that he was
either directly involved or somehow involved in the death of his girlfriend.
You know, they have a 2-year-old child. You know, the fact that blood evidence is found in different locations and now he is on the run, he`s got
connections to L.A. So I`m sure law enforcement is doing anything they can to find family friends and associates to figure out where this individual
is.
BANFIELD: Well, we hope that the police, you know, get some traction on the search for Salvador Garcia, Jr.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: Twenty-one years old. Somewhere out there someone know something. Someone will see him.
RODERICK: Exactly.
BANFIELD: And there is a beautiful young woman who lost her life. Her sister is dead of an unrelated, you know, of unrelated instance. But they
don`t -- they deserve justice.
RODERICK: Absolutely.
BANFIELD: This beautiful mother of that 2-year-old they deserve justice. Thank you, Art Roderick.
RODERICK: Thanks, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Thank you as well, Macy Jenkins for your reporting. Another day, another headline about a male celebrity allegedly sexually abusing a woman.
Tonight, the allegations are against Aziz Ansari. He is answering those charges.
But are the times up and the Me Too movement in danger of disempowering the very people who are championing it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST: Tonight the "Me Too" movement has a lot of wind in its sails, women speaking out about
sexual harassment and assault, even putting America`s leading men in the spotlight for different reason.
Today, no exception. First, I want to talk about Katie Couric. She is talking for the fist time about her former "Today" show co-host Matt Lauer
and the closed door behavior that cost him his job.
She told People, quote, the whole thing has been very painful for me. The accounts I`ve read and heard have been disturbing, distressing and
disorienting. And it`s completely unacceptable that any woman the "Today" show experienced this kind of treatment. I had no idea this was going on
during my tenure or after I left.
I`m with you, Katie. I worked there too, and I didn`t know anything about it.
Up next, Ashley Judd weighing in on James Franco. She was one of the first women by the way in Hollywood to point the finger at Harvey Weinstein and
tonight, she is on something different.
She`s unloading empathy and she`s actually praising actor James Franco for being supportive of the women who stood up and accused him of inappropriate
behavior. Here she is on the BBC show called "Hardtalk."
(START VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY JUDD, ACTRESS: I think that what james said is terrific. And I think we have all behaved at a certain level -- unconsciously, and done things
that were insensitive, inappropriate, without necessarily understanding that they were.
I mean we`ve all operated with a certain amount of tone-deafness, and I like the culpability, and we have to have restorative justice. This is
about men and women being all together and having a more equitable and just workplace, home life, social spaces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And tonight, dropping like a bomb, one of the country`s favorite actors and comedian is being accused of sexual coercion. An anonymous 23-
year-old photographer telling the online publication Babe about her date night with Aziz Ansari, saying that he pressured her repeatedly to engage
in sexual activity.
Ansari tells his side of the story too in a statement, saying, quote, in September of last year, I met a woman at a party. We exchanged numbers. We
texted back and forth and eventually went on a date. We went out to dinner, and afterwards we ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by all
indication was completely consensual.
The next day, I got a text from her saying that, quote, although it may have seemed OK, upon further reflection, she felt uncomfortable. It was
true that everything did seem OK to me, so when I heard that it was not case for her, I was surprised and concerned.
[18:35:00] I took her words to heart and I responded privately after taking the time to process what she said.
A lot of men in Hollywood and across the country are being asked to do exactly that. Process what they might have done. But with more and more
accusations flying from a variety of alleged victims, women are being asked to process some things as well. Something our former secretary of state and
national security advisor implied today in a profound moment with David Axelrod. Here`s Condoleezza Rice.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I don`t know a woman alive who hasn`t had somebody say or do something that was
inappropriate at best and aggressive at worst. I think that the movement to expose these circumstances is a good thing. Let`s clear the air about it.
I do think we have to be a little bit careful. Let`s not turn women into snowflakes. Let`s not infantilize women. And what I really don`t want to
happen is that I don`t want to get to a place that men start to think, well, maybe it`s just better not to have women around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, I would like to say something here. And maybe this is best done in the form of an open letter to Aziz Ansari`s accuser. Ready?
Dear Grace, not your real name. I`m sorry that you had a bad date. I`ve had a few myself. They stink. I am sure it must be really weighing on you. It`s
hard being a victim. Very painful. Just ask anyone who has been on that end of "Crime and Justice." I cover them every day. It`s no picnic.
But let`s take a moment to reflect on what you claim was the worst night of your life, end quote. You had a bad date. Your date got overly amorous.
After protesting his moves, you did not get up and leave right away. You continued to engage in the sexual encounter.
By your own clear description, this was not a rape nor was it a sexual assault. By your description, your sexual encounter was unpleasant. It did
not send you to the police. It did not affect your workplace or your ability to get a job. So I have to ask you what exactly was your beef that
you had a bad date with Aziz Ansari.
Is that what victimized you to the point of seeking a public conviction and a career-ending sentence against him? Is that truly what you thought he
deserved for your night out? Let me be completely clear. If you were sexually assaulted, you should go to the police right now.
If you were sexually harassed in your bad date because his actions mitigated your ability to do your job, you should definitely speak up and
loud, because that happened to me too and it stinks.
But if you just had an unpleasant sexual experience, you should have gone home. Maybe just tell your friends to avoid this guy. Go ahead tell the
date himself he`s gross. That he is not the lover that he thinks he is. And without question, don`t go on a second date with him, certainly do not
marry a guy like that.
But what you have done in my opinion is appalling. You went to the press with a story of a bad date and you have potentially destroyed this man`s
career over it, right after he received an award for which he was worthy.
And now here is where I am going to claim victim. You have chiselled away at a movement that I along with all of my sisters in the workplace have
been dreaming of for decades. A movement that has finally changed an oversexed professional environment that I too have struggled to at times
over the last 30 years in broadcasting.
If you are lucky, there is a really good chance that you are not going to experience the toxic work environment that the rest of us have endured and
that is because of the remarkable progress being made against the Harvey Weinsteins and the Kevin Spaceys of the world.
The "Me Too" movement has righted a lot of wrongs and it has made your career path much smoother. Here`s where I`m guessing it is going to be a
long career path. You are 23. What a gift. Yet you look that gift horse in the mouth and chiselled away at that powerful movement with your public
accusation.
And I`m going to repeat this because it`s important. If you were sexually assaulted, go to the cops. If you were sexually harassed, jeopardizing your
work, speak up and speak out loud. But by your own descriptions, that is not what happened. You had an unpleasant date and you did not leave. That
is on you.
And all the games that have been achieved on your behalf and mine are now being compromised, but the allegations that you threw out there, and I`m
going to call them reckless and hollow.
[18:40:00] I cannot name you publicly and sentence you to a similar career hit as Ansari because you chose to remain anonymous. Lucky you. But as you
grow in your career, I really do hope that you remember what you did to someone else`s career all because of that bad date that was not a sexual
assault, that was not sexual harassment, by your description.
And I hope the next time you go on a bad date, you stand up sooner, you smooth out your dress, and you bloody well leave. Because the only sentence
that a guy like that deserves is a bad case of blue balls, not a Hollywood black ball.
Joining me now, Lauren Duca is a writer and a reporter for Teen Vogue and a supporter of the "Me Too" movement. Sara Asari is a defense attorney and
says she thinks the "Me Too" movement, they have gone too far. Prosecutor Kenya Johnson who has seen the impact of sexual assaults on victims and
understands the concerns about where the movement is going also joins me.
Thank you to all of you and thank you for allowing me the moment to just sort of get this off my chest, because I have felt the pendulum swinging
dangerously and that is my greatest fear, that the pendulum will blow everything apart.
I am going to start with you, Lauren. Do you feel that there is any blow back that could dangerously undo all of the great things that we are
supposed to be enjoying right now in this new environment?
LAUREN DUCA, WRITER AND REPORTER, TEEN VOGUE: I think we have to be willing to have this conversation with nuance and to say that there is a difference
between sexual coercion and sexual assault. I think that the question of whether Aziz Ansari deserves to have his career ruined is absolutely
something I hope will not happen. I think that there is a way to respond to this.
I think that Aziz Ansari as a story teller who talks about modern dating, who shows us about modern dating, who literally wrote a book on modern
dating, will need to reckon with this in his work and I hope that there is a way forward where he can take culpability for some garbage behavior.
I don`t think that this is on the same level as other claims we had, but it`s not a question of whether it`s legal or illegal or whether it`s at a
Harvey Weinstein or Louis C.K. level. I think it`s about navigating human decency and men having to do a little more work to make women feel
comfortable.
BANFIELD: I am truly with you there. And Sara, I want to bring you in to this as well because I am with Lauren and the fact that whatever Aziz did
that night is just gross. But aren`t we a little responsible for our own behavior too? And I mean, like, Condoleezza Rice said, I don`t want anyone
to infantilize me. I am not a baby.
SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
BANFIELD: I can make my own decision, put on my big girl pants after I took them off, and get the hell out of there. This doesn`t happen, because by
her account, she was wandering around the apartment for quite some time naked from location to location as other things were happening.
And this is where I`m frustrated. Now, Aziz Ansari, who maybe was getting mixed signals and said he was getting mixed signals, gets the death
sentence.
AZARI: Right, I agree with you, Ash. I think, look, she texted him for two weeks and she went on a date with him. Dinner, drinks, whatever there was.
And then she went to his home. I mean, what else did she expect was going to ensue? That`s the problem I have. It`s completely outside the parameters
of this "Me Too" movement.
There is no superiority. There is no workplace issue. There is no quid pro quo even in this. And I think that she -- this is -- you know, as a
criminal defense attorney, I call this buyer`s remorse. You go out. You may have certain expectations.
This may have been a one-time date and it was over. And now suddenly she is ruining this guy`s not only career, but this type of accusation when it is
false especially ruins people`s lives and ruins their families.
And it`s very serious and kudos to you for reading that statement. I couldn`t agree with you more. I think that it`s a very heavy allegation to
make against somebody whether it`s harassment or assault, whether it`s civil or criminal, and it ruins families and lives.
BANFIELD: Especially in this climate right now. You want to pull that stuff, you know damn well the ammo is way bigger right now than say it
would have been eight months ago. Maybe it`s a good thing, maybe it`s a bad thing. Hold on one second, because there is this -- there is this notion
and let`s be really clear for anybody who is just joining us.
Don`t give me the death threats on Twitter, OK? Because again, I am only looking at this young woman`s account and her own details here. This is
important. Her own details do not rise to the level of criminal conduct. And there is something to the fact that we need to take some responsibility
for where we go.
Kenya, when we come back after the break, here`s what I want to ask you. I grew up through the whole she was wearing a short skirt at the bus stop,
what do you expect? So I`m not even going to go as far as to say she went to his apartment. Everybody should be able to go to someone`s apartment and
not have, you know, unwanted sexual advances.
[18:45:00] But everybody should also be able to leave that apartment sooner rather than later. So, Kenya, I want to talk to you a little bit about the
implications about all of this when we come back after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:50:00] BANFIELD: We have been talking about the anonymous 23-year-old photographer who told the online publication Babe all over her night with
Aziz Ansari. A night she says turned quickly from a dinner date into a hook up despite her resistance, she said.
But according to the actor, the night seemed completely consensual, in his words. He said in a statement today that he was, quote, surprised and
concerned by her side of the story. This came from a man who literally wrote the book on modern romance and frequently talks about dating for his
punchlines.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
AZIZ ANSARI, ACTOR: Creepy dudes are everywhere, man. They are on the internet. They love the internet so much. Such a great showcase for them.
It`s really startling if you look at the difference between the way men are treated on the internet and the way women are treated on the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Thanks to the date night, the details that we got from today`s publication, the comic has been added to the long line now of men who could
be crucified for their actions. And the question, I think, is evolving into, should he be and how many of them should be?
I want to bring back Lauren Duca and Sara Azari and Kenya Johnson. They join me again. Kenya, when we went to a break, I asked you about this whole
notion about I lived through it. She was wearing a short skirt at the bus stop in the 70s. She was asking for it. So, I am not cool with that. But I
am also not cool with what I am reading in this story.
And I do want to read too that he said, upon further reflection, she was uncomfortable. How is Aziz Ansari supposed to know in the moment that later
on she would have further reflection and be uncomfortable and does she deserve retroactive justice?
KENYA JOHNSON, PROSECUTOR: Well, that`s a very serious question. The "Me Too" allegations face two standards. One being the court of public opinion
where civil ramifications can come out such as slander and liable if the allegations are proven to be false.
But then there is the legal standard where an allegation comes about and you have to see whether it rises to criminal sexual assault. In those
situations, we have to very careful to pay attention to victim`s rights as well as we have to be careful not to berate or judge the victim for her
actions.
And so if we are looking at whether these allegations rise criminally, we are going to need a lot more evidence than just he said, she said
allegation on a tweet or on a media interview.
BANFIELD: Lauren Duca, jump back in here, because Kenya just mentioned the "L" word in this context of libel. Libel is when you say something untrue
and someone starts losing money because of it.
She is not saying that what happened was untrue, but he is losing money over a characterization of what he says wasn`t the case. I don`t know if
this is ever a possibility of libel, I highly doubt it, but what about the responsibility, not just on her part --
DUCA: Yes.
BANFIELD: -- but on Babe`s part for putting it out there. Do they bear any responsibility if he is crucified?
DUCA: Yes. I actually think that this story was incredibly irresponsible to publish in this way. I think that she should never have been anonymous in
this case. If she want to be anonymous, it should have been maybe written as blog post or an essay from her point of view.
To do this as a reported piece on a clearly murky interaction even by grace`s account is dangerous. It`s bad journalism. I think that it is a
sloppy kind of submission into this conversation.
BANFIELD: Sara, I got 30 seconds left. I would like you to button this up. Is there a danger tonight? Is there a tipping point tonight with this Aziz
Ansari story for "Me Too" and for "Time`s Up?"
AZARI: I think, Ashleigh, we are opening the door to every bad date, like you said, becoming a sexual assault or sexual harassment. I think we need
to draw the line here. Like you said, how is the man supposed to know that the behavior is unwanted?
How is he supposed to know that the sexual intercourse is unwanted but the oral copulation is OK. And that the later reflection -- he doesn`t have an
crystal ball. How is he supposed to know that you are later going to regret what occurred in that apartment or in that house?
BANFIELD: Yes. I like what Lauren said and that is that, don`t be gross. Give us a break. For Christ`s sake, don`t be disgusting. Don`t think that
you`re all that and a bag of chips. If someone is giving you signals, you ain`t all that.
And for that, I will say that to Aziz Ansari, gross me out, but I don`t think he should lose his career over this and I think Grace, you got a lot
of thinking to do for what happened. Ladies, thank you. Thank you all very much for your perspective.
We have some -- I think you could say unbelievable surveillance video of a car slamming into a median and sailing airborne into a nearby office
building. This is no Hard Rock Cafe. This is a dentist`s office in Santa Ana and that`s the aftermath. You are going to find out more about it in a
moment.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight, unbelievable surveillance video of the moment a white sedan went airborne and crashed into the second story
of a California office building. You heard right, second story. Watch closely.
[19:00:00] Car flying through, just flying to an intersection, jumping the median, slamming into a dental office, barely missing a bus. Look at that.
So no surprise here the Santa Ana police say the driver was speeding when the accident happened. When you see the aftermath, look at that. Holy cow.
This is not going to surprise you. They say he was also on drugs.
And here`s what is miraculous. No one was seriously hurt here. The firefighters did have to rescue the occupants from this car. My God. Heavy
equipment had to be brought in to actually extract the car from the second story of the dental office. Police say the driver will be facing DUI
charges. That is also not surprising.
A Texas woman held captive and brutally beaten makes a daring escape to flee her abuser and post photos of her battered face online.
The next hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She says he beat her to a pulp and posted her bloody face online. Her story of survival. How she escaped to tell it and the
price for alleged abuser could pay.
A gorgeous young mother vanishes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m afraid she is hurt somewhere can and can`t get to us.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The day after her sister is killed in a car wreck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything was blowing from a fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One week later, she is discovered dead in her car. What police found that makes them say foul play.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ever since that, her head has been everywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who they are looking for tonight.
And the latest Hollywood star under fire. Accused of pressuring a date to have sex, but this time has she gone too far?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is the second hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE.
When we go on Facebook, we expect babies and pets and weekend adventures. But every once in a while, there is a complaint. Just nothing like the
pictures that one Texas woman posted which I`m going to warn you right now are extremely difficult to see.
Because she posted these pictures after she said her boyfriend brutally beat her, raped her and threatened to chain her to a bed. This is what she
wrote.
He broke my face. He broke my teeth. He left me with bruising all over my body. I begged to go to the hospital and he refused. He told me I deserved
to look deformed for the rest of my life. He threatened to chain me up to the bed so I couldn`t go anywhere. He made me clean his house while I
couldn`t even see out of one of my eyes. I was scared. I was in pain, a lot of pain.
Kayla (INAUDIBLE) said she had almost lost all hope before police coincidently pulled up to the house the day after she suffered that
beating. They were there for an entirely different reason. They were investigating a theft case and wanted to talk to him. And that`s when Kayla
made her escape. Running into the officers` arms, rescued. About a week later, that boyfriend you see in those pictures in cuffs.
Fares Sabawi is crime and breaking news reporter for mysanantonio.com, joins me now live.
Fares, this is not the only incident. As horrifying as this is, this is not the only incident that Kayla suffered allegedly at the hands of this
boyfriend (INAUDIBLE).
FARES SABAWI, CRIME AND BREAKING NEWS REPORTER (on the phone): Yes, Ashleigh. And thank you for having me. Yes, there is you know, I know that
those two were together for about three months. But (INAUDIBLE) does have a history of domestic abuse. He actually was convicted for a very similar and
heinous violent incident in Corpus Christi with a different girlfriend where he had allegedly asked the woman to marry him and she said no and he
actually, you know, assaulted her in a very similar way and even had a Rottweiler attack dog that he sicked on to her.
BANFIELD: This is where I get crazy about these things. I even got my hands on his rap sheet. The things that you are talking about lineup directly
with an ugly, ugly 10-year long rap sheet.
Let me just go over it moment by moment.
Let`s start in 2006. Failure to ID fugitive intent to give false into.
2014, assault, bodily injury to a family member.
2014, terroristic threat.
2014, criminal mischief.
2016, here we go again with assault, bodily injury to a family member.
2016, unlawful restraint.
And let`s just have a look at the screen shot that Kayla`s friend Danielle tells us Kayla screen graphed, OK.
This is something that her boyfriend posted in October after a different incident, if you can believe it. And read what`s posted above from
(INAUDIBLE). Feeling fed up with Kayla (INAUDIBLE). This is what happens when your girlfriend decides to talk shit. Bet you will stay quiet now,
Kayla. LOL.
Fares, the obvious question is, with that out there, OK, and this rap sheet also dating back 10 years and these other incidents, the one I think you
mentioned may be the one although we are not sure, burglary of habitation, intent to commit assault and now this new one, aggravated assault causing
serious bodily injury, how is this guy walking the streets?
[19:05:50] SABAWI: Yes. You know, he has faced a lot of criminal charges, you know, dating back to I believe when we found records going back to
2004. We do know a lot of changes that he faced in bare county in San Antonio, you know, he faced things like criminal mischief, theft, assault,
things like that. For a lot of those charges, he was able to get them dismissed in Bare County, but he does have some, you know, it`s true that
he does have some assault of family members convictions, some in Corpus Christi, Texas, and you know, and now the one he is facing here.
It`s really unclear. I know for the corpus one that I told you about that was very violent that include the Rottweiler dog, he did get - he did plead
to lesser changes and only have spent I believe about 200 days in the Oasis (ph) county jail before he was able to walk again.
BANFIELD: OK. As we look at these astounding pictures of the aftermath of what is alleged to have happened at the hands of her boyfriend of three
months, it`s just astounding. (INAUDIBLE) allegedly did this to his beautiful girlfriend.
And I want to just post if I can some of the Facebook posts from this young woman. One of them had to do with something that he allegedly said to her.
Effectively, I`m done with you. And I`m going to take you to Vegas and sex traffic you.
This is what Kayla posted.
My abuser told me he was going to take me to Las Vegas and sex traffic me to make money off me because I was no other use to him.
And then this is what Kayla posted on Facebook regarding her stay in the hospital allegedly because of his handy work.
This is what happened to her while in the hospital. It didn`t end. She said my abuser would call the hospital pretending to be my dad to find out if I
was still there. Not even my own family could be trusted. My abuser has taken over all of my social media accounts.
And then there is this little gem from an affidavit that we found. You know, an affidavit for a search warrant. The police saying in an entirely
different incident now, OK. It`s hard to keep track of them, but an entirely different incident.
The victim`s stated that during a previous assault the defendant had chained her to a pool table and physically restrained her from leaving the
residence.
Let`s remember that Kayla (INAUDIBLE) is saying of this most recent attack that hospitalized her, she was threatened. He said she would be chained to
the bed if she tried to leave. And when he fell asleep, she was able to make her escape because coincidently there were cops at the door.
Then there is just this other bit from yet another incident and this is also from the police in an affidavit for a search warrant, the defended
assaulted her using a bat and may have broken her ribs.
I want to bring in, if I can, Danielle Gonzalez. She is Kayla (INAUDIBLE) best friend.
Danielle, thank you so much for being here. Can you hear me OK?
Yes, I can hear you perfect, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: The biggest question so many of us have, especially when we see this incredible series of screen shots that Kayla was able to grab showing
how bloodied and broken she is as he is clutching her, the biggest question we all have is why was she still with him after so many assaults?
DANIELLE GONZALES, ALLEGED VICTIM`S BEST FRIEND: It`s so easily for people not to know the mental side of abuse. She was terrified of this guy. We
talked about it multiple times and rightfully so. He would act on every threat that he made and she was scared for her life.
BANFIELD: So if she was scared for her life, I know the two of you talked about this, was there any time when either of you or maybe just she alone
was on the edge of making a run for it? She was going to the police to say this happened and I`m afraid I`m going to die so let`s stop that before it
happens.
[19:10:01] GONZALES: Yes. Me and her had worked on a plan. We had talked about a getaway. He was relentless. He would go after family members,
friends, threaten to hurt them. He went as far as trying to meddle in my life and other people that she cared about life to make sure she was not
going anywhere. We did try to devise a plan of an escape, however, unfortunately, this happened before we were able to act on that plan.
BANFIELD: Can you tell me how your best friend, Kayla, is doing right now? We got the photographs from the hospital. They do not look good, but how is
she?
GONZALES: She is in good spirits. Physically, she is getting better. Mentally, she has a lot going on. And we are trying to be there to support
her as best we can.
BANFIELD: Any idea how long, Danielle, she is going to be hospitalized or is she out now?
GONZALES: She is released. She has been released from the hospital and she is getting care right now and then it`s just as far as getting her the care
for her mental well-being.
BANFIELD: And I am assuming that she has, you know, got some rehabilitation with broken teeth and she said he broke her face. I don`t know exactly what
that meant, but I do know that the search warrant earlier said she had an orbital fracture that caused her to lose vision and lose consciousness.
GONZALES: That is correct. Her orbital floor - the orbital on her socket was broken. And so, she has some other injuries that she, you know, needed
to get taken care of, but physically she is out of the hospital. She is getting better. She is staying in good hopes. And she is hoping that
justice can be deserved. I know she is to come forward to speak until then.
BANFIELD: I can understand why she would be afraid having gone through what she has gone through.
Don`t go anywhere, Danielle. Hold on for one minute because I want to bring in a prosecutor in this case. Kenya Johnson is live in Atlanta on this.
Kenya, it took by my fact pattern here in front of me, eight days to arrest him. And the police were actually at the crime scene. She is there running
into their arms bloodied and broken and it is still eight days before they arrest him for this. You can help me sort that through?
KENYA JOHNSON, PROSECUTOR: It doesn`t make much sense why it would take that long. Perhaps the victim was unable to communicate who her abuser was
or to give some contextual details. That`s the only thing I can think of, other than why they would not immediately arrest her the moment she pointed
this is the person that did this to me.
BANFIELD: So Kenya, alright, let`s just assume for the moment that the charges I see in front of me are the only charges he will face. And I`m
actually going to assume there may be more because they always reserve that right to add them on later. But right now, it is aggravated assault causing
serious bodily injury. And then another one and another incident, burglary of habitation intent to commit assault.
I have a couple seconds left, what do you think he is going to face if he is convicted on both?
JOHNSON: He is also looking at aggravated battery if she sustains any scars or injuries from the assault. And you know, we can even be looking at
attempted murder based on her injuries if it was to the degree that she could have possibly died from her injuries. We are looking at escalation of
those charges where he could face some very serious jail time.
BANFIELD: Wow. Attempted murder. I mean, that is serious. Holy cow.
Thank you. My thanks to both of you. I really do appreciate all of this.
And I also thank Fares Sabawi as well for the reporting on this story. Let`s keep an eye on this and find out just what happens when you post LOL
about someone not being complicit enough in your conversation.
There is an urgent manhunt tonight for the ex-boyfriend of a young California mother. She is there on the right. She was found dead in her car
in a parking lot and that was just days after she had mysteriously disappeared. And there was a long story behind this manhunt.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:27] BANFIELD: Yesterday in Woodland, California, police got a call about a car in a parking lot which is a perfect place for a car to be
except for when there is a dead body inside. And (INAUDIBLE) body turns out to be a young mom, just 21 years old, who had been missing for nearly a
week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LINDA QUINTERO, VICTIM`S FRIEND: I`m just really worried because it`s not like her. She is really, really nice. How honest she is. And she hasn`t
really good sleep (ph). I`m afraid she is hurt somewhere and can`t get to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: How Karen Garcia died remains a mystery tonight. The police remaining tight lipped on the evidence that they have been able to gather
so far. But we do know a few things. That police believe foul play was definitely involved and that her ex is now a wanted man. The same ex-who
spoke to local reporters the day after she was reported missing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SALVADOR GARCIA JR., SUSPECT: She got in her car and took off. Just in a rush to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, that wasn`t the only thing she said. More on that in a moment.
First, Macy Jenkins is a reporter with CNN affiliate KOVR and she joins me live from Sacramento.
OK. So first things first, Macy. Where is Salvador Garcia, Jr., this ex- boyfriend who police are seeking? Do they have any clues?
MACY JENKINS, REPORTER, KOVR (on the phone): Police have no idea, Ashleigh. And thank you for having me.
You know, they say that this is a full on manhunt for Salvador Garcia right now. All of their resources are directed towards trying to find him. Local
PD has surveillance video that they are pulling for all of the shopping centers in the area where they found the car. At this point they have no
idea and haven`t seen him since Friday.
[19:20:11] BANFIELD: OK. So, what`s interesting is that before maybe he knew and the rest of us knew that he in fact is a suspect and the police
are telling us he is a suspect in this case. Police are also telling us that they have probably cause to arrest him in this case. Police also
telling us they found blood in his vehicle and her apartment.
Before maybe all of that was known, there was this interview that you conducted with him the day after, I believe she went missing. So I want to
play that, Macy, if I can, because I think it can be very telling to see his comfort, his demeanor. Maybe that`s different now that he is a wanted
man. But have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENKINS: Monday morning did you see her in the apartment?
GARCIA: Yes. She got in her car and she took off.
JENKINS: How did she seem?
GARCIA: Just in a rush to get out.
JENKINS: Did she say where she was going?
GARCIA: No. She said I`m taking off. I thought she was going to her mom`s house. And I didn`t hear anything from her until like 6:00. I told her I
was going to drop off baby with her mom. She said OK. That was the last thing. And the next day I tried calling her and sending her message to let
her know her mom was worried. No reply. I tried calling her multiple times throughout the day. No response. The phone rings, but nothing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK, Macy. Any spidy senses for you tingling during that interview and the tears that seem to be tears, were they tears? What was your overall
assessment of him?
JENKINS: Ashleigh, I have to tell you we did not intend to interview him initially. We were speaking with friends and coworkers of Karen and they
gave him a call and said, you know, Macy is there. I want you to talk to her. He rushed over with the baby, with the two-year-old. And I said would
you mind speaking with him and he sat down and he was more than happy to answer my questions.
And the moment when he really started to get emotional was when I talked about Karen as a mother and whether or not she would leave her 2-year-old
child. And he just started to get choked up and he was crying. And I have to tell you it seemed genuine then. We talked about pictures. He sent me
pictures of the two of them. They went to a game together with the baby. The three of them together. And I asked them if - I asked him if they were
together. He said no. They weren`t together. But he friends didn`t believe she was dating anyone else and they still shared this apartment together.
BANFIELD: So what we have got is Karen Garcia on January 9th, the day she goes missing, she sends a text to her sister. And she says to her sister,
hey, I`m at Roseville and Vacaville today. I have to run some errands. I will be back late tonight. OK.
And then there is a text to a friend and the text to her friend is actually in response to the friend asking do you need anything, Karen? And Karen
responds back, no, I`m in Roseville. Need some busy time. Yes, I needed some time to myself.
So is it thought that there was a break up? Because the police seem to think that she was pushing for a break up with this fellow and that he was
not. And that this whole notion of the text thing, I need some busy time, some time to myself, is him getting - it is her getting away from him and
maybe he was not too thrilled about all of that.
JENKINS: And you know, that could be the case. When I talked to Salvador and he said the last time he saw her was that Monday when she rushed out of
the apartment. That could have been some kind of fight. We don`t know at this point. But when the texts stopped coming, her friend, sister, they got
very nervous and that`s the point where they said I don`t see her going off overnight somewhere. That is 50 miles away. Woodland and Roseville are not
close to each other.
BANFIELD: OK. There is also this - there is also this very sad twist, OK, as if this weren`t sad enough for Karen and her family. The sister that she
texted is still alive. There is another sister who is not. And that other sister was killed in a head on car crash just a day prior, if I`m not
mistaken.
JENKINS: The day before, Sunday.
BANFIELD: Let me just quickly bring in Art Roderick on this because he is a CNN law enforcement analyst and a former assistant director of U.S.
Marshal.
Art, the fact that there was this car accident, it seems so incredibly random, it`s unrelated. You know, this victim, this Karen Garcia who found
dead in a car with blood in her apartment and blood in her ex-boyfriend`s car, her sister was killed the day before in a car crash. Does this
complicate anything for the authorities who are on the hunt for this missing Salvador Garcia, Jr.?
[19:25:09] ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. I don`t think it complicates it, but it could be a reason why she wanted to have some me
time away. I mean, I just can`t imagine what this family is going through having two of their daughters killed and sisters killed in back to back
days here. This is a horrible crime. I mean, for him to come out and speak as he did, I think a lot of that probably has to do with guilt in knowing
that he was either directly involved or somehow involved in the death of his girlfriend. You know, they have a 2-year-old child. You know, the fact
that blood evidence is found in different locations and now he is on the run. He has got connections to L.A. so I`m sure law enforcement is doing
everything they can to find family friends and associates to figure out where this individual is.
BANFIELD: Well, we hope that the police, you know, get some traction on the search for Salvador Garcia, Jr., 21 years old. Somewhere out there, someone
knows something. Someone will see him and there is a beautiful young woman who lost her life. Her sister is dead of, you know, unrelated instance.
They deserve justice. This beautiful mother of that 2-year-old, they deserves justice.
Thank you Art Roderick. Thank you to Macy Jenkins for your reporting.
Another day, another headline about a male celebrity allegedly sexually abusing a woman. Tonight, the allegations are against Aziz Ansari. He is
answering those charges. But are the time`s up and me too movements in danger of dis empowering the very people who are championing it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:36] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Tonight, the #MeToo movement has a lot of wind in its sails. Women speaking out almost every day about sexual
harassment and assault, even putting America`s leading men in the spotlight for different reason. Today, no exception.
First, I want to talk about Katie Couric. She`s talking for the first time about her former Today show co-host, Matt Lauer, and the close-door
behavior that cost him his job. She told people, the whole thing, quote, has been very painful for me. The accounts I`ve read and heard have been
disturbing, distressing and disorienting, and it`s completely unacceptable that any woman at the Today show experienced this kind of treatment. I had
no idea this was going on during my tenure or after I left. I`m with you, Katie. I worked there too and I didn`t know anything about it.
Up next, Ashley Judd, weighing in on James Franco. She was one of the first women, by the way, in Hollywood, to point a finger at Harvey Weinstein and
tonight, she`s done something different. She`s unloading empathy and she`s actually praising after James Franco for being supportive of the women who
stood up and accused him of inappropriate behavior. Here she is on the BBC show called "HARDtalk."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEY JUDD, AMERICAN ACTOR AND POLITICAL ACTIVIST: I think that what James said is terrific. And I think that we`ve all behaved at a certain level
unconsciously and done things that were insensitive, inappropriate, without necessarily understanding that they were. I mean, we`ve all operated with a
certain amount of tone deafness. And I like the culpability and we have to have restorative justice. This is about men and women being all together
and having a more equitable and just workplace, home life, social spaces.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And tonight, dropping like a bomb, one of the country`s favorite actors and comedians is being accused of sexual coercion. An anonymous 23-
year-old photographer telling the online publication Babe about her date night with Aziz Ansari, saying that he pressured her repeatedly to engage
in sexual activity.
Ansari tells his side of the story, too, in a statement saying quote, "In September of last year, I met a woman at a party. We exchanged numbers, we
texted back and forth, and eventually, went on a date. We went out to dinner and afterwards, we ended up engaging in sexual activity, which by
all indications was completely consensual. The next day, I got a text from her saying that, quote, although it may have seemed OK, upon further
reflection, she felt uncomfortable. It was true that everything did seem OK, to me, so when I heard that that was not the case for her, I was
surprised and concerned. I took her words to heart and I responded privately after taking the time to process what she said."
A lot of men in Hollywood and across the country are being asked to do exactly that process what they might have done, but with more and more
accusations flying from a variety of alleged victims, women are being asked to process some things as well. Something our Former Secretary of State and
National Security Adviser implied today in a profound moment with David Axelrod. Here`s Condoleezza Rice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:34:47] CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: I don`t know a woman alive who hasn`t had somebody say or do something that
was inappropriate at best and aggressive at worst. I think that the movement to expose these circumstances is a good thing. Let`s clear the air
about it. I do think we have to be a little bit careful. Let`s not turn women into snowflakes. Let`s not infantilize women. And what I really don`t
want to happen is I don`t want it to get to a place that men start to think, well, maybe it`s just better not to have women around.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I`d like to say something here. And maybe this is best done in the form of an open letter to Aziz Ansari`s accuser. Ready? Dear Grace, not
your real name. I`m sorry that you had a bad date. I have had a few myself, they stink. I`m sure it must be really weighing on you. It`s hard being a
victim, very painful. Just ask anyone who`s been on that end of CRIME & JUSTICE. I cover them every day. It`s no picnic. But let`s take a moment to
reflect on what you claim was the worst night of your life, end quote. You had a bad date, your date got overly amorous. After protesting his moves,
you did not get up and leave right away, you continued to engage in the sexual encounter. By your own clear description, this was not a rape nor
was it a sexual assault. By your description, your sexual encounter was unpleasant. It did not send you to the police. It did not affect your
workplace or your ability to get a job. So, I have to ask you, what exactly was your beef? That you had a bad date with Aziz Ansari. Is that what
victimized you to the point of seeking a public conviction and a career- ending sentence against him? Is that truly what you thought he deserved for your night out?
Let me be completely clear. If you were sexually assaulted, you should go to the police right now. If you were sexually harassed and your bad date,
because of his actions mitigated your ability to do your job, you should definitely speak up and loud because that`s happened to me too and it
stinks. But if you just had an unpleasant sexual experience, you should have gone home. Maybe just go ahead tell your friends to avoid this guy is
gross. Go ahead tell the date himself he`s gross, that he is not the lover that he thinks he is. And without question, don`t go on a second date with
him, certainly do not marry a guy like that.
But what you have done, in my opinion, is appalling. You went to the press with a story of a bad date and you have potentially destroyed this man`s
career over it right after he received an award for which he was worthy. And now here is where I am going to claim victim. You have chiseled away at
a movement that I, along with all of my sisters in the workplace, have been dreaming of for decades. A movement that has finally changed an oversexed
professional environment that I, too, have struggled through at times over the last 30 years in broadcasting. If you`re lucky, there`s a really good
chance that you`re not going to experience the toxic work environment that the rest of us have endured, and that is because of the remarkable progress
being made against the Harvey Weinsteins and the Kevin Spaceys of the world.
The #MeToo movement has righted a lot of wrongs and it has made your career path much smoother. And here`s where I`m guessing it`s going to be a long
career path. You are 23. What a gift. Yet, you look that gift horse in the mouth and chiseled away at that powerful movement with your public
accusation. And I`m going to repeat this because it`s important. If you were sexually assaulted, go to the cops. If you were sexually harassed,
jeopardizing your work, speak up and speak out loud. But by your own descriptions, that is not what happened. You had an unpleasant date and you
did not leave. That is on you. And all the games that have been achieved on your behalf and mine, are now being compromised with the allegations that
you threw out there.
And I`m going to call them reckless and hollow. I cannot name you publicly and sentence you to a similar career hit as I`m sorry because you chose to
remain anonymous. Lucky you. But as you grow in your photography career, I really do hope that you remember what you did to someone else`s career. All
because of that bad date that was not a sexual assault, that was not sexual harassment by your description. And I hope the next time you go on a bad
date, you stand up sooner, you smooth out your dress, and you bloody well leave. Because the only sentence that a guy like that deserves is a bad
case of blue balls, not a Hollywood black ball.
[19:39:57] Joining me now, Lauren Duca, is a writer and a reporter for Teen Vogue and a supporter of the #MeToo movement. Sara Azari is a defense
attorney and says she thinks the #MeToo movement may have gone too far, and prosecutor Kenya Johnson, who has seen the impact of sexual assault on
victims but understands the concerns about where the movement is going also joins me.
Thank you to all of you and thank you for allowing me the moment to just sort of get this off my chest because I have felt the pendulum swinging
dangerously and that is my greatest fear. That the pendulum will blow everything apart.
I`m going to start with you, Lauren. Do you feel that there`s any blowback that could dangerously undo all of the great things that we`re all supposed
to be enjoying right now in this new environment?
LAUREN DUCA, WRITER AND REPORTER: I think we have to be willing to have this conversation with nuance and to say that there is a difference between
sexual coercion and sexual assault. I think that the question of whether Aziz Ansari deserves to have his career ruined is absolutely something I
hope will not happen. I think that there is a way to respond to this. But I think that Aziz Ansari as a storyteller who talks about modern dating, who
shows about modern dating, who literally wrote a book on modern dating, will need to reckon with this in his work. And I hope that there`s a way
forward where he can take culpability for some garbage behavior. I don`t think that this is on the same level as other crimes we`ve had, but it`s
not a question of whether it`s legal or illegal, or whether it`s at a Harvey Weinstein or Louis C.K. level. I think it`s about navigating human
decency and men having to do a little more work to make women feel comfortable. And --
BANFIELD: I`m truly with you there. And Sara, I want to bring you into this as well because I am with Lauren in the fact that whatever Aziz did that
night is just gross, but aren`t we a little responsible for our own behavior, too? And I mean, like Condoleezza Rice said, I don`t want anyone
to infantilize me. I am not a baby. I can make my own decision, put on my big girl pants after I took them off, and get the hell out of there. So
this doesn`t happen because, by her account, she was wandering around that apartment for quite some time naked from location to location as other
things were happening. And this is where I`m frustrated. Now, Aziz Ansari, who may be was getting mixed signals, and says he was getting mixed
signals, gets the death sentence.
SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. I agree with you, Ashleigh. I think, look. She texted him for two weeks and she went on a date with him. Dinner,
drinks, whatever there was, and then she went to his home. I mean, what else did she expect was going to ensue? That`s the problem I have. Is that
it`s completely outside the parameters of this #MeToo movement. There`s no superiority, there`s no workplace issue. There`s no quid pro quo even in
this. And I think that she -- this is, you know, as a criminal defense attorney, I call this buyer`s remorse. You go out, you may have certain
expectations, this may have been a one-time date and it was over. And now, suddenly, she is ruining this guy`s, not only career, but this type of
accusation when they`re false especially, ruins people`s lives and it ruins their families. And it`s very serious and I, you know, I -- kudos to you
for reading that statement. I could not agree with you more. I think that it`s a -- it`s a very heavy allegation to make against somebody whether
it`s harassment or assault, whether it`s civil or criminal, and it ruins families lives.
BANFIELD: Especially in this climate right now. You want to pull that stuff right now, you know damn well the ammo is way bigger right now than say it
would have been eight months ago. Maybe it`s a good thing, maybe it`s a bad thing. But hold on one second. Because there is this -- there is this
notion, and let`s be really clear for anybody who`s just joining us. Don`t go giving me the death threats on Twitter, OK. Because, again, I am only
looking at this young woman`s account and her own details here. This is important. Her own details do not rise to the level of criminal conduct,
and there is something to the fact that we need to take some responsibility for where we go.
And Kenya, when we come back after the break, this one I want to ask you, I grew up through the whole she was wearing a short skirt at the bus stop.
What did you expect? So, I`m not even going to go as far as to say she went to his apartment. Everybody should be able to go to someone`s apartment and
not have, you know, unwanted sexual advances. But everybody should also be able to leave that apartment sooner rather than later. So, Kenya, I want to
talk to you a little bit about the implications about all of this when we come back after the break.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`ve been talking about the anonymous 23-year-old photographer who told the online publication Babe all about her night with Aziz Ansari.
A night she says turned quickly from a dinner date into a hook up despite her resistance, she said. But according to the actor, the night seemed
completely consensual, in his words. He said in a statement today that he was, quote, surprised and concerned by her side of the story. This coming
from a man who literally wrote the book on modern romance and frequently talks about dating for his punchlines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AZIZ ANSARI, AMERICAN ACTOR: Creepy dudes are everywhere man. They`re on the internet. Oh, they love the internet so much. Such a great showcase for
them. It`s really startling if you look at the difference between the way men are treated on the internet and women are treated on the internet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:49:58] BANFIELD: Thanks to the date night, the details that we got from Todays publication, the comic has been added to the long line now of men
who could be crucified for their actions, and the question, I think, is evolving into should he be and how many of them should be? I want to bring
back Lauren Duca, and Sara Azari, and Kenya Johnson. They join me again.
Kenya, when we went to break, I asked you about this whole notion about I lived through the -- she was wearing a short skirt at the bus stop in the
70s. She was asking for it. So I am not cool with that, but I am also not cool with what I`m reading in this story. And I do want to read you that
she said, upon further reflection, she was uncomfortable. How was Aziz Ansari supposed to know in the moment that later on she have further
reflection and be uncomfortable and does she deserve retroactive justice?
KENYA JOHNSON, PROSECUTOR: Well, that`s a very serious question. The #MeToo allegations face two standards. One, being the court of public opinion
where civil ramifications can come out such as slander and libel, if the allegations are proven to be false, but then there`s the legal standard
where an allegation comes about and you have to see whether it rises to criminal sexual assault. In those situations, we have to be very careful to
pay attention to victim`s rights as well as you have to be careful not to berate or judge the victim for her actions. And so if we`re looking at
whether these allegations rise criminally, we`re going to need a lot more evidence than just he said/she said allegation on a tweet or on a media
interview.
BANFIELD: Lauren Duca, jump back in here because, you know, Kenya just mentioned the l-word. In this context, it`s libel. Libel is when you say
something untrue and someone starts losing money because of it. She`s not saying that what happened was untrue but he`s losing money over a
characterization of what she says wasn`t the case. I don`t know if this is ever a possibility of libel, I highly doubt it. But what about the
responsibility not just on her part, but on Babe`s part for putting it out there. Do Babe bear any responsibility if he is crucified?
DUCA: Yes, I actually think that this story was incredibly irresponsible to publish in this way. I think that she should never have been anonymous in
this case. And if she was so to be anonymous, it should have been maybe written as a blog post or an essay from her point of view. To do this as a
reported piece on a clearly, a murky interaction even by Grace`s account is dangerous. It`s bad journalism. And I think that it is a sloppy kind of
submission into this conversation.
BANFIELD: Sara, got 30 seconds left. I`d like you to button this up. Is there a danger tonight? Is there a tipping point tonight with this Aziz
Ansari story for #MeToo and for Time`s Up?
AZARI: I think, Ashleigh, we`re opening the door to every bad date, like you said, becoming a sexual assault or sexual harassment. I think we need
to draw the line here. Like you said, how is the man supposed to know the behavior is unwanted? How is he supposed to know that the sexual
intercourse is unwanted but the oral copulation is OK, and that the later reflection that he does not have a crystal ball? How is he supposed to know
that you`re later going to regret what occurred in that apartment or in that house? I just think --
BANFIELD: Yes, I like -- I like what Lauren said and that is that don`t be gross. Give us a break, for Christ`s sake. Don`t be disgusting. Don`t think
that you`re all that and a bag of chips. If someone`s giving you signals, you ain`t all that. And for that, I will say that to Aziz, I`m sorry. Gross
me out, but I don`t think he should lose his career over this, and I think, Grace, you got a lot of thinking to do about what`s happening. Ladies,
thank you. Thank you all very much for your perspective.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BANFIELD: We have some, I think you could say, unbelievable surveillance video of a car slamming into a median and sailing airborne into a nearby
office building. This is no hard rock cafe. This is a dentist office in Santa Ana, and that`s the aftermath. You`re going to find out more about it
in a moment.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: And "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. Unbelievable surveillance video of the moment. A white sedan went airborne and then crashed into the
second story --second -- of a California office building. If you look closely, you can see the cars. It flies through the intersection and it
jumps the median and slams into a dental office building, barely missing a passing bus. No surprise here. Santa Ana police say the driver was speeding
when the accident happened. And then they also say that he was on drugs. Miraculously, nobody was hurt in all of this and the firefighters were able
to rescue the occupants from that car, and then, the heavy equipment was brought in to actually get it out of the building. Take a look at that. The
police say the driver will, in fact, be charged with DUI. No surprise, seeing that picture.
Thank you for watching, everybody. Will see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00 Eastern for CRIME AND JUSTICE. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.
END
