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Ivana Defends Trump; Trumps Go to Davos; Russia Berates U.S.; Rice on Kim Jong-un; North and South Talks; Trump's Vulgar Remarks; Trump Compared To Stalin; Trump's Ex-Wife Speaks Out. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 15, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington, 6:00 p.m. in London, 8:00 p.m. in Jerusalem. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

The president of the United States, in 2018, declaring that he is, quote, "not a racist." The new fallout over his vulgar remarks and the Republicans who are still silent.

All this as the clock ticks on a Dreamer deal and a looming shutdown. Will his new firestorm stop the government from running?

An extraordinary moment, truly an extraordinary moment. The president of the United States being compared to Joseph Stalin. Not by Democrats but by a Republican U.S. Senator. And he'll do it from the floor of the U.S. Senate.

Al that coming up. But first, President Trump pushing back against critics who say he's a racist. The president is under fire over vulgar remarks about immigrants from African countries and about Haitians.

Here's what he told reporters about the charges of racism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not a racist. I am the least racist person you have ever interviewed, that I can tell you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president is also denying that he made the vulgar remarks, and he's getting support from his Homeland Security secretary and from two Republican lawmakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST, "THIS WEEK", ABC NEWS: Are you saying the president did not use the word that has been so widely reported?

SEN. DAVID PERDUE (R), GEORGIA: I'm telling you he did not use that word, George, and I'm telling you it's a gross misrepresentation. How many times do you want me to say that?

SEN. TOM COTTON (R) ARKANSAS: I didn't hear that word, either. I certainly didn't hear what Senator Durbin has said repeatedly.

KIRSTJEN NIELSEN, SECRETARY, U.S. HOMELAND SECURITY: I don't recall him saying that exact phrase. I think he has been clear, and I would certainly say undoubtedly, the president will continue to use strong language when it comes to this issue, because he feels very passionate about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Senators Perdue and Cotton, by the way, initially said they didn't recall the president's making those remarks.

Let's go to our Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. He's joining us from the White House. So, Jeff, why all the pushback now?

JEFF ZELENY, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, that is a great question, because it certainly has been a slow pushback, indeed.

Initially, when this was first reported, those comments last Thursday in the Oval Office, the White House did not deny that the president said that. This has been a very slow denial, if you will, really, unfolding over several days.

Finally, those two Republican senators, after initially saying on Friday they couldn't recall what the president said, they came out on Sunday shows yesterday saying he did not say that. His Homeland Security secretary also said that.

But, Wolf, what is unspoken and left unexplained is what the president did actually say. He said he had strong words about this, but he did not use that particular vulgar expression.

But, Wolf, regardless of all of this, the underlying factor is the week here is beginning in a much different place than just a week ago, when it seemed that there was an agreement being reached between Democrats and Republicans on DACA.

Those young immigrants who came here, through no fault of their own, whose time is, essentially, expiring here. This is all wrapped up in that government funding bill, the government funding bill that ends on Friday.

But, Wolf, it's hard to imagine how they can get even beyond that, with the president saying I'm not a racist. Democrats saying he is. And Republicans saying they did not hear him say that.

All of this coming after the president returns from a three-day weekend, later this afternoon, Wolf, from Florida.

BLITZER: Yes, and the clock is ticking. Friday night at midnight, that's when the government --

ZELENY: Right. BLITZER: -- runs out of money. It could be a government shutdown, unless they pass a spending bill.

Jeff, thanks very much.

Senator Lindsey Graham, by the way, is standing by his recollection of now infamous Oval Office meeting on immigration. Senator Graham says reports of the president using vulgar language are, in fact, accurate.

And he tells the Charleston, "South Carolina Post and Courier" this, quote, "My memory hasn't evolved. I know what was said and I know what I said."

And earlier today, Senator Graham also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: The discourse right now is pretty low. We're producing some pretty good policy. But those of us in my business need to up their game. It's pretty embarrassing when you have to take your children out of the room just to report the news.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right, joining us now, to discuss this and more, CNN Political Director David Chalian and Political Congressional Reporter Rachael Bade. Guys, thanks very much.

Senator Lindsey Graham, as you know, he was one of the seven lawmakers in that meeting. He's a Republican. He's not backing away at all.

DAVID CHALIAN CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yes, I think this debate about what word exactly did he use and who -- it misses the point entirely.

I mean, for Senator Perdue to say it's a gross misrepresentation, what Dick Durbin presented, it just belies the facts.

[13:05:01] Lindsey Graham was in the room and corroborates it. He told Tim Scott, his fellow senator from South Carolina, an account of what happened in that meeting immediately afterwards. Tim Scott had said it reflected the public accounts that are out there.

So, whether or not he used that word in that moment or not, which I think is what Tom Cotton and David Perdue are, sort of, hanging their hat on here, he seems to miss the larger point here. That, as you started the show, Wolf, the president of the United States, on Martin Luther King Day, wakes up to headlines everywhere saying, I'm not a racist. The fact that he felt the need to -- he got a question, sort of a question that none of us could have imagined prior to this presidency being asked.

And then, answers it and asserts, as he did during the campaign, that I'm not a racist. I'm the least racist person I know. To have that be the blaring headline on MLK Day, I just think shows you just how far off course that meeting really was. BLITZER: Yes, because he had been asked a question, a similar

question, the other day here in Washington, when there was an MLK Day event. And he didn't respond. He just ignored the questions. This time, he didn't.

RACHEL BADE, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, POLITICO: Yes, I mean, he's, obviously, trying to defend himself, right now, from Democrats on the Hill and out -- people around the country, saying that these are clearly racist remarks.

The thing I think is interesting is how much this has just roiled the immigration talks. There was a discussion about potentially getting a deal on DACA by Friday. But this set everything back, you know, hundreds of miles, if you will.

I mean, you have sitting senators calling the number three Democrat in the Senate a liar. You have people in the House saying that they want to censure the president for these remarks he made.

And then, my understanding is there was a bipartisan discussion on Friday about where they're going to go with these discussions. And Democrats, sort of, stuck to their line. Republicans stuck to their own.

And a quote from one of my sources who's familiar with the meeting, "My candid assessment is that this acknowledgement that negotiations are going nowhere but nobody wants to go away from the table right now."

BLITZER: You know, it -- what's interesting, David, and I wonder if you agree, my own sense was that the president seemed to indicate, in that Oval Office meeting when -- it wasn't the Oval Office.

At a White House meeting that was televised, that 55-minute meeting, he seemed to be open to doing something immediately for the Dreamers, the DACA. When he was responding to Senator Feinstein, then the majority leader in the House, Kevin McCarthy, weighed in, kind of talk about security. He said, OK.

He seemed to be very, very flexible. Let's get this done. Let's let the Dreamers, 700,000, 800,000, stay. Let's work it out. But he was getting hit from the right and that had -- seems to have had an impact on him.

CHALIAN: Yes. I think, more than anything, what he was doing in that meeting was trying to erase the portrayal in the Michael Wolff book, "Fire and Fury," of a chaotic White House and really trying to seem to be agreeable and bipartisan.

BLITZER: In that 55-minute meeting.

CHALIAN: In that 55-minute meeting (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: Which he was successful at doing.

CHALIAN: He was successful at doing. And what I think we noticed right away, Wolf. Remember, there was confusion about his position, in that moment. But then, that night, he was out tweeting and asserting that the wall had to be part of it.

So, he moved back -- as Rachel was just saying, sort of back into the firm positions of where they were rather than a new position.

I think what his -- I totally agree with you about, sort of, what the impact of these remarks are on the DACA debate. Because it seems every Democrat I've spoken to feels now more emboldened in their position to really try and use the spending bill moment, this deadline coming up, as leverage.

And now, their base will be that much more unforgiving in deal-making after these remarks were public.

BADE: Yes. It seems, from sources I'm talking to today, that the conversation has, sort of, shifted from, can we get a DACA deal by Friday when the government runs out of money? To, we don't have a DACA deal. We're not going to get a DACA deal. And how are we going to keep the government open?

Right now, Republicans are going to be meeting in just a couple of hours to talk about a short-term spending agreement that will, sort of, kick the can into February. And, in December, they did the same thing.

And Democrats in the Senate, I think 17 Democrats, ended up voting for a short-term agreement, even though they said they won't vote for a long-term agreement without a Dreamer solution.

My question is, do these, quote, "shithole" remarks change that for them? Do they embolden them such that they say, we're not going to give you any votes?

BLITZER: Yes, this is a critically important week, and we're going to be watching it very closely. The clock is ticking, as we like to say. Friday night deadline for the government to come up with something.

And I assume they're -- they'll come up with something and avoid a government shutdown, but we shall see.

Guys, thanks very much.

The president's ex-wife now defending him against those racist charges and his mental stability at the same time. Ivanka Trump, in her own words. That's coming up.

Plus, after Hawaii gets a nuclear scare after the wrong button is pushed, North Korea, all of a sudden, agreeing to yet more talks, direct talks, with South Korea. You're going to find out what to expect.

And a Republican senator getting ready to compare the president of the United States to Joseph Stalin. On the U.S. the Senate floor, you'll hear why. That's coming up.

[13:10:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The president's ex-wife, Ivana Trump, is now coming to his defense amid the fallout from his vulgar remarks about immigrants from Africa and Haiti. During an appearance on a British T.V. show, she denied her former husband is a racist.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

IVANA TRUMP: I don't think Donald is a racist at all. You know, sometimes he says these things, you know, which are silly or he doesn't really mean them or something like that. But he's definitely not racist, I'm sure of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: I want to bring in our White House Reporter Kate Bennett who's been following this story for us.

It's not the first time, Ivana, his ex-wife, has come to his defense.

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: It's certainly not. In fact, Ivana, in October, released a book called "Raising Trump" in which she says she still talks to the president. They seem to have a close relationship. She certainly has been a champion of his.

[13:15:00] And the first lady, current first lady, Melania Trump, has not said anything about this latest controversy. Although, Wolf, that's not unusual. Melania Trump doesn't typically respond when the president has these controversies.

BLITZER: What are the -- what does the current wife, and the first daughter, you know, Ivanka and Melania, what are they saying about all of this?

BENNETT: Not a whole lot. We've reached out to the White House and neither of them have responded to comment on this latest controversy. Melania Trump did, last week, respond to the Michael Wolff book, however, via a spokesperson, calling it a lie, saying it was a work of non-fiction. Interestingly, her spokesperson did say that Melania Trump might, at some point, tell her own truthful story, which leads lots of people to think maybe down the road she'll have something to say.

But for now, the first lady and the first daughter are both avoiding this controversy. We have not heard from them. Melania Trump did, this morning, tweet a Martin Luther King Jr. Day tweet honoring the day and asking that we all represent and remember the civil rights leader.

BLITZER: It's interesting that the president still have a -- apparently a pretty good relationship with his wife.

BENNETT: He does. And this was the one thing in October that did trigger Melania Trump to respond, which she doesn't really do. But she did say back then when Ivana Trump made that comment about, I don't want Melania to be jealous if I call the White House, and Melania responded via her spokesperson saying, you know, this is about selling books. I'm first lady. This isn't, you know, something that we need to worry ourselves with. So she did sort of fire back that time.

BLITZER: Now when the president travels later this month to Davos for the World Economic Forum, the first lady will be going along as well.

BENNETT: That's right, Wolf. A last minute announcement yesterday. CNN learned that the first lady will go with him to Davos. She will likely be front and center when he gives his remarks there and she will accompany him on this trip.

BLITZER: Yes, we'll see what happens. There will be a lot of publicity on that trip I am sure.

BENNETT: Certainly.

BLITZER: Kate, keep up the great reporting. Thanks very much.

A new twist today in American tensions with Russia. You're going to hear why Moscow is now berating the United States saying America is destabilizing the world.

Plus, as North and South Korea meet again for talks ahead of the winter Olympic games in South Korea, we're hearing from a formal -- from former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who's describing Kim Jong-un as, quote, pretty clever. We'll tell you why she thinks that. That's coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[13:21:30] BLITZER: The Russian government lashing on today at the United States over the Trump administration's foreign policy. The Russian foreign minister, Sergey Lavrov, publically accusing the U.S. of destabilizing the world, saying the U.S. has stoked tension by supporting anti-government protests in Iran and issuing threats against North Korea. The foreign minister, Lavrov, warned of the consequences of a further escalation in tensions on the Korean peninsula and he added this, quote, the United States quite plainly says that the military confrontation is inevitable. However, everyone understands the catastrophic consequences of such recklessness.

Let's go to our senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance. He's joining us live from Moscow.

Matthew, Lavrov pretty regularly criticizes the U.S., but I take it this is a bit more harsh, is that right?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I think it is because he spent the past two and a half hours of his -- of his news conference here in Moscow, which is an annual event that he hosts, basically using it as an opportunity to publicly berate the United States for its actions overseas. He said he was destabilizing the global order. He criticized the U.S. for the threats that he said the U.S. had made against North Korea and Iran. Lavrov accused the United States of provoking tensions on the Korean

peninsula. And as you mentioned, he warned that the -- of what he called the catastrophic consequences of such recklessness on Iran. Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, warned the United States not to go back on the controversial nuclear deal because he said that that would be negative for future agreements with other countries, particularly North Korea, where such agreements entered into.

And so, yes, it was a marked change in tone from the foreign minister, compared to what we saw a year ago when President Trump was inaugurated, where Sergey Lavrov, the Russian foreign minister, was looking forward to a new period of much better relations between the United States and Russia, Wolf.

BLITZER: Hasn't happened. That hasn't happened yet.

All right, Matthew, thanks very much. Matthew Chance in Moscow.

Let's talk a little bit more about Sergey Lavrov's comments and the developments involving North and South Korea. Bob Baer is a CNN intelligence and security analyst, a former CIA official. Also joining us from London right now, our senior international correspondent Clarissa Ward.

Bob, let me start with you.

But before we get to the Russian issue, I want to talk about North Korea. I want you to listen to what Condoleezza Rice, the former U.S. secretary of state, said. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think Kim Jong-un is turning out much more so than I thought to be actually pretty clever. The approach to the South Koreans was clever. The decision to go to the Olympics is clever. I think he is more isolated than his father was, perhaps certainly more reckless. I wonder sometimes if he really believes it when he says, I can destroy the United States, because anybody who tells him something he doesn't want to hear seems to get killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So you agree with her assessment?

BOB BAER, CNN INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY ANALYST: Oh, I agree with her completely. These talks with South Korea are undercutting this administration's policy. This administration would like to isolate the North Koreans completely. The North Koreans have their missiles, have their bombs and are, you know, saying, let's be friends again. And if the South Koreans -- if we lose the South Koreans on this, we don't have much.

[13:25:05] BLITZER: That's an important point.

Clarissa, do Foreign Minister's Lavrov's comments and, you know, this attack against the United States, not only involving Iran, but also North Korea, how does that serve Moscow's interests?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's just incredible to me, Wolf, what a difference a year makes. I mean, this time last January, I was sitting in Moscow and the Kremlin was trying very hard to keep a smirk off its face. People were grinning from ear to ear. They were quite literally thrilled at the result of the U.S. election, at the prospect of a much more Russia-friendly leader being elected as president of the United States.

It didn't take long for that honeymoon period to sort of fade away. And I do think there was anxiety always about the fact that President Trump was an unknown commodity. But now we find ourselves at a stage where many Russians are privately telling me that they actually would have been happier if Clinton had been elected president. That is something I would have thought would be inconceivable to hear them saying before.

And I think it's for a number of reasons. Obviously, the Trump administration under a huge amount of pressure politically to uphold sanctions against Russia. We've also seen the move to declare "Russia Today" and Sputnik as foreign agencies.

And, of course, though, at the end of the day, what we're looking at is a real disparity in foreign policy where the U.S. foreign policy not entirely clear, but we're hearing a lot of bellicose statements from the White House about Iran, about North Korea, about Syria. And specifically with Syria and North Korea, these are areas that the Russians had really considered themselves to be a main player at the negotiating table.

So I think you're seeing a real chilling of the relationship. I think you're seeing a very ticked-off Foreign Secretary Lavrov. And, yes, it's just an extraordinary difference in such a short space of time.

BLITZER: Yes, certainly that U.S.-Russian relationship, Bob, certainly from the beginning of the Trump administration till now has dramatically deteriorated.

BAER: Oh, absolutely. Clarissa is absolutely 100 percent right, this relationship with Russia is going downhill fast. They're worried about North Korea, that there could be a conflict, if accidental or intentional, and they're worried about Iran because if we withdraw that nuclear agreement from Iran, the Iranians will go ahead and start making a bomb again and we will attack them. So there's these two theaters of war that the Russians are very worried about this --

BLITZER: But the public lashing out by the Russians, Lavrov today against the Trump administration, is a lot more vociferous than President Trump lashing out at the Russians. He doesn't usually do that.

BAER: Very odd. You know, I -- what the Russians are going to do at this point, I don't know, but they're very worried about this president, his inconsistencies, his blustering and the rest of it. And, you know, if the Russians are worried, I'm worried. BLITZER: Clarissa, what about these new talks that have now been

scheduled between North and South Korea? It's a very dramatic development coming, what, just a few weeks before the start of the winter Olympic games in South Korea. Are people seeing this as a genuine thaw on relations between the two Koreas or just game playing ahead of the winter Olympic games?

WARD: I think that there is a sense of optimism in some quarters. These are the first face to face meetings, Wolf, that we have seen between North and South Korea in two years. So they are not significant.

And while it's all being done through the mechanism of the Olympics and sports, of course, diplomacy and sports often go hand in hand. I'm sure many people in the U.S. remember ping-pong diplomacy between China and the U.S. during the time of Richard Nixon.

So I think this is clearly a crucial time and everybody is kind of anxiously awaiting to see whether some kind of a thaw is indeed imminent, whether more pressing concerns, of course, relating to nuclear issues could indeed be reached, which is why you're seeing a lot of confusion, not just from Sergey Lavrov, who we heard from earlier in Russia, but from a lot of countries about why the Trump administration is just now kind of seemingly engaging in military preparation exercises or looking into military options for a military conflict or solution to the Korean peninsula crisis. The timing of that seems a little awkward and a little gauche to a lot of analysts who would like to see everybody sort of standing quietly and supportively on the sidelines cheering on these talks, seeing where they'll go.

[13:29:57] It's normal, of course, to have some kind of military contingency plan. But between the debacle in Hawaii and the rhetoric we heard from President Trump and this "Wall Street Journal" article, I think there is some concern in some international quarters.