Return to Transcripts main page

Wolf

Congressional Black Caucus Press Conference; Dems Move to Censure Trump; Trump Furious with Kelly; Graham Views On Trump; Government Possible Shutdown; Government Funding Effort. Aired 1-1:30p ET

Aired January 18, 2018 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: Hello, I'm Wolf Blitzer. It's 1:00 p.m. here in Washington. Wherever you're watching from around the world, thanks very much for joining us.

Shutdown showdown. Negotiations hitting a wall as the U.S. government gets closer and closer to running out of money. And now, President Trump throwing a wrench into his own party's proposal.

West wing drama. President Trump said to be furious at his White House chief of staff, after John Kelly insisted the president's views have evolved on immigration and the border wall.

And his attorney says President Trump is now eager, eager, to talk to Robert Mueller, the special counsel. But also says they're considering that the president may be walking into a perjury trap.

All of that coming up.

Let's start, though, with a major push right now by Democrats up on Capitol Hill, pushing for a formal censure of the president.

Looking at live pictures coming in from Capitol Hill. That's where members of the House, including the leadership -- member of the Congressional Black Caucus, they'll outline their effort this hour.

They want to reprimand over the comments the president made last week in an Oval Office meeting on immigration, where he used very vile language to describe African nations and derided immigrants from Haiti and El Salvador.

Let's go to Capitol Hill. Our Congressional Correspondent Sunlen Serfaty is standing by.

So, tell us about this resolution, this censure resolution, and the chance for success.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the chances aren't great for success now, Wolf, because, quite simply, this is a House of Representatives that is controlled by the Republicans right now. But, certainly, House Democrats pushing forward with their efforts to amount to something of a symbolic nature. They are certainly very angry and have been very outspoken in the week since we heard that reporting about those vulgar terms that President Trump used in the Oval Office last week.

And they want, in essence, to push this to the forefront and make sure it's keeping its time in the news and amounting to something of a public reprimand by this censure resolution.

And they will speak shortly here at this press conference. We'll hear likely first from Congressional Black Caucus chairman, Cedric Richmond. He has been very vocal in recent days. And they, in essence, want to force all the members with the censure resolution to get on the record with how they fall on this.

Again, that is not very likely to happen. That would be very rare to happen, amounting to a public condemnation of a president. Very rare that this would have happened and likely the chances not great that it will get through when the House is, of course, controlled by the Republicans -- Wolf.

BLITZER: And it's not just members of the leadership of the Congressional Black Caucus. Others are participating in this as well, including Congressman Jerry Nadler of New York, right?

SERFATY: That's right, Wolf. He will speak at this press conference as well which is significant, the fact that you do have members of a leadership coming forward and signing their name on this, saying this is something we want to push forward.

He spoke earlier in the week. He said, look, this is a chance to put every member of Congress on the record that we don't approve, in his words, of racism and the president when he makes these kind of racist remarks -- Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, we'll stand by and hear what they have to say. Sunlen, thanks very much.

Only four presidents, in fact, have ever been censured. Andrew Jackson was the first, followed by John Tyler, James Polk and James Buchanan. All in the 1800s.

Let's bring in our panel. The White House correspondent for Reuters, Jeff Mason; CNN Politics Senior Writer Juana Summers; "Boston Globe" reporter, Astead Herndon; and CNN's Chief Political Analyst Gloria Borger.

It's largely symbolic because it's clearly not going to pass the majority, 218 votes, in the House of Representatives. But it is significant.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it is significant because you're going to have a group of people on the floor talking about this. And I think what you're going to see is the outrage that people have about the president's -- about the president's comments. And I think it's an effort to, kind of, -- to, kind of, not let that slide and put it front and center, again.

Again, symbolic in the extreme. And we know, as someone was saying, that its fate is pretty much predetermined.

But -- you know, but I do think that it is a way for members to register their complaints about this president vis-a-vis race.

BLITZER: Yes, there's a lot of complaints.

And speaking of race, Juana, I want you to assess what Lindsey Graham told our Dana Bash just a little while ago up on Capitol Hill, as far as the president's views on race.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Why don't you ask me, is he a racist?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: That was my next question.

GRAHAM: OK, why don't you ask me?

BASH: Do you think he's a racist?

GRAHAM: Absolutely not. Let me tell you why. You could be as dark as charcoal and lily white, it doesn't matter, as long as you're nice to him.

You could be the pope and criticize him, it doesn't matter. He'll go after the pope. You could be Putin and say nice things, and he'll like you.

[13:05:07] Here's what I found. He's a street fighter. It's not the color of your skin that matters. It's not the content of your character. It's whether or not you show him respect and like him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Juana, what do you think?

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER: Well, first of all, I think based on my reporting and analysis, I think Senator Lindsey Graham is probably making a pretty fair assessment.

But here is what's so troubling about that. This is a president who was very divisive during the campaign. There are a number of people of color in this country, if you look at polling, who do not have favorable opinions of him.

That said, he is the president of the entire United States. He can't just govern for and have policies for people who look like him and think like him and, as senator Graham said, like him.

So, I think that's why (INAUDIBLE) is troubling for so many people who need to him, kind of, to have that unifier and chief role that I think has been so important to past administrations on both sides of the aisle.

BLITZER: Astead and Jeff, stand by.

There's more news I want to get to right way, and we're going to get the announcements momentarily. But they're counting votes and they're counting down right now.

Republican leaders are scrambling to round up enough votes to keep the government from shutting down. The deadline is midnight tomorrow. The House speaker, Paul Ryan, he sounded optimistic but was ready to blame the Democrats if Republicans come up short.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PAUL RYAN (R), WISCONSIN, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I have confidence we'll pass this thing, because I think members understand why on earth would we want to have a government shutdown, hurt the military -- and by the way, the sequesters on the military starts kicking in, in due time. That is not in anyone's interest.

And so, why we would want to feed the idea that we should use our troops as bargaining chips in an unrelated deal.

So, I think it's unconscionable that Democrats would walk away from CHIP, from funding our military, for something that is not a deadline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Republicans are, though, divided and some Democrats are defiant. They are refusing to vote for a temporary spending bill, without an agreement to protect the Dreamers, the immigrants brought to this country illegally as children.

Just moments ago, the House minority leader, Nancy Pelosi, called this a moment of truth and blamed Republicans for the shutdown threat. Here's how she described the children's health insurance program, money that is included in the Republican plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI, HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: This is -- this is like giving you a bowl of doggie doo, put a cherry on top and call it a chocolate sundae. This is nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Let's bring in our Senior White House Correspondent Jeff Zeleny. He's joining us from the White House right now.

So, what are you hearing over there about the prospects of a government shutdown or passing this temporary spending bill? JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, there certainly is a lot of confusion, certainly much dysfunction here, yet another potential government shutdown.

But this all started with the president, himself, earlier this morning, throwing a lot of confusion into this entire matter by talking about the Children's Health Insurance Program.

The Republicans' strategy was to sweeten the deal, if you will, by including that.

But the president, of course, went on social media and he had this to say about that. He said that CHIP should be part of a long-term solution, not a 30-day or short-term extension. Of course, CHIP is the acronym for the children's insurance program.

That, of course, was confusing to many Republicans on Capitol Hill.

But, Wolf, but just a short time ago, a few moments ago, I caught up with the White House legislative director, Marc Short, and asked him if the president confused this entire process.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARC SHORT, WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS: No, the president hasn't confused matters. You've seen the White House put out statements in support of (INAUDIBLE) resolution.

Where important -- it's important to make sure the government stays open. It's important to make sure that our troops are funded. And that's the president's position. You saw him at the Pentagon make that case just a few minutes ago.

ZELENY: How can Republicans in this White House credibly blame Democrats if the government shuts down, since Republicans control all levers of the government? Right?

SHORT: Republicans control the Houses and the White House. That's a fair point. But you also know it requires a 60-vote threshold in the United States Senate. We have 50 Republicans present with John McCain's absence. Therefore, we need 10 Democrats.

I think you'll see a continued resolution passed through the House to keep the government funded. The challenge will be, what happens in the Senate? Senate Democrats appear willing to shut down the government, stop paying our troops, stop paying our military, in order to fight for the illegal immigrants.

ZELENY: But you think a -- the Freedom Caucus folks on board, do you -- do you believe that they have the votes?

SHORT: We think they'll be able to secure enough Republican votes in the House to get this done.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ZELENY: So, Wolf, there you heard Marc Short. He, of course, is keeping track of all these votes at the White House. He believes that there are enough votes to get through the House, particularly the House conservatives who have blocked these things before. He thinks they're on board.

But he does say that there is, of course, much more concern in the Senate, because they must hit the threshold of 60 votes. And some Democrats are saying that they will not vote for this. But some Republicans are as well. Lindsey Graham and others among them here, Wolf.

So, at this hour at the White House, the White House, frankly, is not sure if there are the votes in the Senate.

[13:10:01] But, Wolf, you do get the sense, as the hours tick down, this is not politically good for either side. Republicans, of course, control the levers of government here, so it's incumbent upon them to make a deal. We'll see if they will.

All of this is happening, Wolf, as the president is flying to Pittsburgh to talk about the economy and his tax cuts. And I'm sure he will also talk about this potential shutdown -- Wolf.

BLITZER: I'm sure he will. All right, Jeff, thanks very much.

ZELENY: Sure.

BLITZER: You know, Jeff Mason, you met with the president yesterday. You were in the Oval Office, you and your Reuters' colleagues from the White House. You had the chance to spend almost an hour with him, right, in the Oval Office interviewing him.

I mean, I saw this tweet this morning, CHIP, the Children's Health Insurance Program, should be part of a long-term solution, not a 30- day or short-term extension. It is a six-year program, a six-year extension, as part of a 30-day budget deal. But it's -- but if they approve the budget deal, it'll go on for six years and help 9 million kids.

JEFF MASON, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, REUTERS: Right. And what he's done is exactly what Jeff Zeleny was saying, is to throw some confusion into the negotiations. In our interview yesterday that you just referenced, we talked about the possibility of a shutdown.

And he started, sort of, this preempted blame game, in the same way that you're seeing on Capitol Hill, saying that it would be the Democrats' fault. They'd be hurting the military.

And, of course, the Democrats are actually in a decent position because Republicans need them. And so, that -- you know, that leverage gives them some ability to ask for or get what they want.

And the White House, despite having control of -- Republican control of the White House and Republican control of the Congress, is stumped.

BLITZER: He hated the Lindsey Graham-Dick Durbin bipartisan compromise deal on immigration, right?

MASON: He did. And he said that. He said that he had lost confidence in Durbin because of the senators coming out and talking about what the president had said or allegedly said in that meeting.

He said that deal was not in line with what he campaigned for. And that was also interesting in the context of what the president had said just a week before, in that really extraordinary meeting with lawmakers from both parties. Where he said, you guys come up with a deal, bring it to me and I'm going to sign it.

But that's not the language he used in our interview yesterday.

BLITZER: I'm anxious, Astead, how do you see things unfolding, with less than 40 hours right now -- we've got a clock, 34 hours to go? If there is no deal, the government shuts down. And that affect millions and millions of Americans.

ASTEAD HERNDON, REPORTER, "BOSTON GLOBE": It's hard to cut through the spin but it's also hard to know where the president stands.

Like Jeff was saying, this is not the first time that he's thrown a wrench in these negotiations. The conventional wisdom in Washington was that this bipartisan deal that Senator Durbin, Senator Graham and others had worked on. That included protection for Dreamers. That included defense funding. And would be what the president may sign, at what point.

And now, we saw him throw a wrench in that, and we saw him throw a wrench again today.

And so, it's tough to see how this plays out. But one thing that's certain, the mudslinging will continue. And then, who knows who will come out blamed after when that (INAUDIBLE.)

BLITZER: You know, Gloria, it made this tweet -- it made it look like he didn't understand --

BORGER: Well, he didn't.

BLITZER: -- that this was a six-year extension for CHIP, for the Children's Health Insurance Program.

BORGER: He didn't.

BLITZER: And it reminded me last week, with the FISA, --

BORGER: Exactly.

BLITZER: -- into the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act extension. He through a wrench into it and then it had to be fixed by the White House later. He had to send another tweet. This time, the White House has to issue a clarification.

BORGER: I think you've had the speaker of the House, maybe the majority leader, maybe his own -- maybe Marc Short, having to, kind of, give the president tutorials on things that he should know about and understand. Because they are important to the operation of the government.

And this question this morning, I mean, the White House had to issue a statement after the president tweeted saying, you know, we support the House version of the -- you know, of -- to avoid a shutdown.

And, you know, you have leader after leader doing summersaults, trying to -- trying to, kind of, explain away the president, not to mention his own staff. I mean, he clearly did not understand what was in this measure.

And then, the other question you have to ask is, for example, on the wall. He's had this problem with his own chief of staff now, Kelly, who was talking about how the president has evolved on this.

Well, where is he? What does he believe?

You had Mitch McConnell saying, as soon as the president tells us what he wants on immigration, maybe -- we'll do it.

Well, that's an extraordinary statement from the Senate majority leader.

BLITZER: You hear -- the White House chief of staff, John Kelly, says the president's position on the wall has evolved, that the president was uninformed during the campaign when he made all those statements about the border --

BORGER: Right.

BLITZER: -- and the wall.

And the president, this morning, rebuked Kelly. The wall is the wall. It has never changed or evolved from the first day I conceived of it. Then, he goes on to say more.

Everyone stand by. There's a lot happening right now.

Democrats, they're moving to censure the president over the vulgar remarks about African nations. We'll have that announcement. We'll have full analyst. Stand by for that.

Also, as I just mentioned, CNN now reporting that President Trump is furious at his White House chief of staff after John Kelly called his campaign promises, on immigration and the border wall, uninformed.

[13:15:06] And after a controversial interview in the Russia investigation, Steve Bannon was supposed to be back up on Capitol Hill this afternoon, but that's not going to happen. We'll tell you why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D), CHAIRMAN, CONGRESSIONAL BLACK CAUCUS: First, let me thank you all for coming today, which is really our need to call an unfortunate press conference and address the country over remarks that, one, should have never been made, two, that were factually inaccurate.

So there -- I know there are a million questions, and the Congressional Black Caucus, all of us 48 members, the 78 million people we represent, along with the Judiciary Committee and our ranking member, Jerry Nadler, decided that we would speak for what we call the conscience and the morals of this country, because when you hear statements like this, talking about the value of other nations, I think it's very important for not only those other nations and our nation, but to world -- the world to know that that's not how we think, that's not how we feel, and you can't just be quiet because at some point silence becomes betrayal. And what we will never do is betray this great country that we love. We will never betray this great Congress that we're all members of and have the honor of being a member of.

[13:20:38] So if you're asking why we felt the need to introduce this resolution, there are three points. One, the first point, which is most important, is to let the world, let Africa, El Salvador and Haiti know that America does not feel that way about them, nor where they live. And that we as a Congress and members of Congress and the Congressional Black Caucus, that we not only respect their countries, but we support their countries. And we recognize the contribution that their countries make to the world.

And specifically on the singling out of Africa, and maybe it was just Africa that was being referred to, I would just say that it's painfully ironic that a country where the people were taken from their homes and shackled and brought over in the belly of a ship and built this great country and made it what it is today, to now say, we don't want people from those countries. It's just outlandish, astonishing and painful in a way that cannot be described.

If you listen to "Lift Every Voice and Sing," which is described as the negro national anthem, the last two lines say, "true to our God and true to our native land." And as a Congressional Black Caucus, we could not stand silent and let the native land be described in that manner, nor El Salvador, nor Haiti.

So one was to show our support --

BLITZER: All right, Cedric Richmond, the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, explaining why they and others in the House of Representatives want to introduce a resolution of censure, a censure condemning the president for his comments about African nations, Haiti, El Salvador, immigrants coming to the United States. Very vulgar, vile comments indeed.

Astead, you listened carefully to what -- to what the chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus had to say, Cedric Richmond. It's not going to pass the House of Representatives, but it is a statement underscoring their anger.

HEMDON: It's a symbolic measure, both for the people that they represent and for those congressmen themselves and congresswomen. It's an important one. These are people who feel personally enraged by the comments that came from the president and represent constituencies who feel like they do not have a voice in this White House.

We were -- did some reporting a couple of weeks ago about the lack of racial diversity in this White House, and there were a lot of people who say that they don't feel that they have -- can speak to this president, that he is even trying to -- to govern for them. And so, in that situation, and you add that in with the president's personal history both on the campaign trail and even as he was a lawmaker, it creates a situation that can be really, really tension filled, especially when such vulgar language is being used.

BLITZER: Did you get into this, Jeff, when you were with the president yesterday?

MASON: We asked him about it. We asked him to clarify what he had said and he declined to. He did say again that it was a tough meeting, which is something that he had used to describe it already, and he went on to express his frustration with the fact that Senator Durbin spoke about it. But he did not want to clarify exactly what he had said.

BLITZER: Well, and, Juana, you saw the reporting that we and other news organizations did, that he seemed to be sort of pleased that these comments were being reported because it was music to the ears at least in some of -- some of the people in his base.

JUANA SUMMERS, CNN POLITICS SENIOR WRITER: Right. And I think that's especially troubling when you just look at the reactions, not just from people in the United States but around the world to these comments from the president. You had the spokesperson for the African Union Commission saying they were alarmed. Haiti's ambassador said the president was either misformed (ph) or miseducated (ph) about the state of Haiti. I think that shows that the words that the president says -- and maybe this is something based on his tweets that he doesn't quite get, they have a lot of power, not just to communities of color here, but to countries on the world stage who are looking to him for an idea of what Americans are and what Americans believe.

BORGER: You know, just like the president has, you know, has caused problems for his congressional leadership -- we were just talking about that a moment ago -- he's caused problems for his State Department. I mean they had ambassadors that were being called in and sort of read the riot act because of the president's own statements. I mean it, you know, it just seems to me that the transition that needs to be made from being sort of private citizen Donald Trump to president of the United States Donald Trump has not -- and thinking about repercussions of his words, of his tweets, has not been made. And every time he does something like this, you see people scrambling, as we were talking about before.

[13:25:19] BLITZER: I want to move on and talk about the White House chief of staff.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: But there's a national security component to all of this as well. BORGER: Exactly.

BLITZER: National security officials have told me they're concerned that these words, so widely publicized around the world, will be used by haters and potential terrorists out there to conspire against the United States.

BORGER: Yes.

BLITZER: And that's a serious problem, indeed.

I want to shift gears, talk about the president. A source telling us that the president was fuming over the comments of the White House chief of Staff John Kelly in a meeting with lawmakers yesterday up on Capitol Hill, as well as during his interview with Fox News.

Listen to what General Kelly said about the president's views on the border wall with Mexico and immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KELLY, WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: He's very definitely changed his attitude towards the DACA issue and even the wall.

He has evolved in the way he's looked at things. Campaign to governing are two different things and this president has been very, very flexible in terms of what is within the realm of the possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The president then fired off this tweet. Let me read some of it to you.

The wall is the wall. It has never changed or evolved from the first day I conceived of it. Parts will be of necessity, see through, and it was never intended to be built in areas where there is natural protection, such as mountains, wastelands or tough rivers or water.

A source also said that the president hated Kelly's comments.

So why -- you know, the president gets angry, as you know, Gloria, when he gets criticized like this. It's extraordinary that a White House chief of staff would say publicly, certainly privately as well, what he said.

BORGER: Yes, I mean privately --

BLITZER: About a president.

BORGER: Privately I think the word was uninformed. Publicly -- you know, publically, in that interview, it was the president has evolved. He doesn't want to be --

BLITZER: And he said that the president was not fully informed, although privately he said uninformed. BORGER: Look, he doesn't want to be criticized. He doesn't want to be

criticized. As Lindsey Graham said to Dana Bash, you know, the president likes people who say nice things about him, who compliment him. This he did not see as a compliment because what it does is go to the heart of Donald Trump, which is, he wants to win and he's not quite -- doesn't have sort of a set of -- a belief system that has been governing him for years or a theology, a political theology. Winning is his theology. And, so, yes, of course he got angry.

BLITZER: You know, and, instead, the president went on in that tweet to also insist Mexico will still pay for the wall, he said. The wall will be paid for, directly or indirectly or through longer term reimbursement by Mexico which has a ridiculous $71 billion trade surplus with the United States. The $20 billion wall is peanuts compared to what Mexico makes from the U.S. NAFTA is a bad joke.

HEMDON: What I find so fascinating about this is Chief of Staff Kelly is really pointing out what is evident in the public square, his feelings have evolved. I mean even in that statement, when he's talking about indirect payments by Mexico or the way -- the way that the wall can partly be fencing, those are all new -- those are all statements that were not true to the original Donald Trump candidate message. But now, as the chief of staff points that out, you see the president has consistently got angry with staffers who point out even things that could be evident for all eyes to see. And he has especially been upset when staffers got more publicity than him, when staffers seem to -- seem to be criticizing him. And that's why we knew that tweet was coming this morning. And, sure enough, it did.

BLITZER: It certainly did. And, very quickly, before I let you go, Jeff. In that interview you had with the president yesterday in the Oval Office, you discussed the physical exam he took, the criticism he was getting from his own physician, that he was overweight, needed to lose some weight, and also he needed to start exercising. He responded to you.

MASON: He's not going to be going to the gym any time soon. I mean that's not what he said specifically, but he said he already gets more exercise than people probably think. He walks, for example, when he goes to another -- another building on the White House complex. He's on the golf course, although he conceded that he doesn't usually walk on the golf course.

BLITZER: He's got a cart that takes him.

MASON: He's got a cart, yes. But he gets more exercise than people think. But he is willing to change his diet. He said he'd be open to having the White House chef make his portions a little bit smaller and take out some of those bad ingredients.

BORGER: So no treadmill desk in the Oval?

MASON: I don't think there's going to be a treadmill desk. I don't think he's going to be using that White House gym (ph).

BLITZER: I don't think either. All right, guys, thanks very much.

The president's lawyer, meanwhile, a concern that a potential interview between President Trump and the special counsel, Robert Mueller, could be a perjury trap.

And, Steve Bannon's second day of testimony before the House Intelligence Committee postponed because of efforts by the White House to restrict what the former chief strategist can and can't say.

[13:30:00] And, Congressman Mike Quigley, he's a member of that committee, he's standing by live. You see him right there. We'll discuss that when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)