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CONNECT THE WORLD
World's Richest, Most Powerful people gathering; Modi Says Societies Becoming More Insular; CNN Builds Igloo To Highlight Fractured World; Trump Casts End Of Shutdown As Republican Victory; Axios Reports, FBI Director Threatened To Resign; Tension Grow Between The U.S. And Turkey; Global Migrant Crisis. Aired 10-11 ET
Aired January 23, 2018 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[10:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been a rich man and I have been a poor man.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America first.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give up the hammer and stick and reach out for the brass ring of capitalism.
TRUMP: China, to rape our country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the U.S. sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.
TRUMP: Americanism not globalism.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one.
BECKY ANDERSON, CONNECT THE WORLD, CNN: Welcome to what really is the most extraordinary coming together of wealth and power that perhaps the world
has ever known. This picture postcard Swiss village here turned bastion of global capitalism, Davos home right now to exuberant wealth and
overwhelming power. Right here right now than there is even of snow. A lot of that. Much like it the cash keeps on coming. Finding 82 percent
four-fifths of all the extra wealth of the global economic pie made in the whole world last year went to the richest one percent of people. These
kind of people, the kind no instruction. The men and women who shape our lives, all coming to be world economic forum and naturally right here on
CNN to talk about what it's calling a fractured world. So, we're here to connect all the pieces and connect it all for you. I'm Becky Anderson.
This is Davos, it is your world and we are of course, connecting it. Here we are on top of the mountain top. We didn't have to wait long for the
battle line to be drawn of globalization versus protectionism, including America first Narendra Modi has officially opened the world economic forum
with a speech descending globalization and the Prime Minister of India promised his country a $5 trillion economy by 2225.
NARENDRA MODI, PRIME MINISTER OF INDIA (TRANSLATIOR): Forces of protection of them are raising their heads again in the organization. That intention
is not only to avoid globalization themselves, but they also want to reverse its natural flow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: This comes just hours President Donald Trump approved tariffs on imported solar panels and washing machines as high as 50 percent. And that
is left China and South Korea fuming. It's not all storms in the snow. The sun is shining on the booming global economy and global CEO's here are
applauding Mr. Trump's changes to the U.S. Tax code. In fact, global leaders are falling over themselves to praise Donald Trump's moves on taxes
and scaling back of regulations. They say it will boost U.S. growth and incentivize global business to invest in the U.S. America first at least
for the many gathered here then is working. I am join by my colleague Richard Quest. Have Donald Trump's successes, do you think been overlook
RICHARD QUEST, EDITOR AT LARGE: I think economically. Yes to the fact that he has put in place this tax reformed which many have said has been
needed for decades, both Republican and Democrats have tried to lower the tax rate and tried together repatriation and failed to do so. The argument
is the corporations the benefit the ordinary people do not benefit as much. That is the problem.
ANDERSON: So, All right. I get what you say.
QUEST: The other example on the opposite side of this. Nations that we are going to be in the TPP with the exemption of the U.S., they've come
together to say they are going to continue with that and they hope to sign the agreement in the next three month. So, Donald Trump is an enigma,
we've seen having boost in some areas and blow up in others.
[10:05:03] ANDERSON: Every country speaks its own natural interest, correct? Globalization certainly works but there are speed bumps that slow
a country down to a certain extent. Many people might agree with that as well. And we are suggesting that America first, to some degree, is being
applauded here. And yet there are others here who say he is just gone out and thought of trade war with China.
QUEST: That is the complexity of the issue. The bankers love what he is done for taxation and for banking reform. Industrials love what he is
doing in terms of many of the policies, but then immediately you turn around and say, well, hang on, but there's a policy on protectionism.
Things that are outdated. That is the difficulty that this place deals with Donald Trump.
ANDERSON: Are we talking politics versus practicality here?
QUEST: No, no. I think you're talking politics, practicality philosophy, pragmatism and, ultimately, populism.
ANDERSON: I won't listen to you. Well done. Richard Quest, thank you.
We all know that you, like anything that move planes, trains, that sort of thing. You're also about anything that melts apparently. I got some more
video for you here. What have you been doing, building an igloo?
QUEST: Igloo was built because demonstrates the difficulties of all the various heavy blocks to build this thing. You can't have any fractures in
the blocks, like in the world's economy. You can't build a tower. You build something rounded. If you get it right, you will build a home for
ANDERSON: Richard Quest is in the house. "Quest express" follow this show. Thank you sir. Well, that build was well worth a look, wasn't it?
Richard really put his back into that. You can see the entire video at CNN.com. U.S. President's trip to Davos now on again now that his
government is back up and running, for now anyway. Donald Trump has signed a short-term spending bill late Monday which keeps the government funded
for the next three weeks. That means hundreds of thousands of federal employees are back at work today in the U.S. when it comes to lawmakers who
won and who lost in this controversial deal that is still a question. CNN Kaitlan Collins reports for you from Washington.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: President Trump touting the end of the government shutdown as a big win for Republicans. Signaling a
willingness to broker a deal on DREAMERS and border security tweeting, see you at the negotiating table. Sources telling CNN that Mr. Trump eager to
rebuke criticism that he did little to help end the shutdown.
CHUCK SCHUMER, U.S. SENATE DEMOCRATIC LEADER: The great president sat on the sidelines.
COLLINS: Aides say Mr. Trump's low profile was intentional. The White House insisting the president had an impact.
SARAH HUCKABEE SANDERS, DEPUTY WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, what the President did clearly worked.
COLLINS: But offering little clarity about Mr. Trump's position about the path forward DREAMERS.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Status versus pathway to not matter to the President?
HUCKABEE SANDERS: I think that is part other negotiation process, but right now we don't have a permanent solution for that program.
COLLINS: The chairman of the Republican Conference telling CNN that Mr. Trump is key to any immigration solution succeeding in the house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His role will be an important one. And I expect that we will be hearing from him early off and once the discussion gone under
COLLINS: Sources tell CNN the deal to reopen the government was due in part to promises from senate majority McConnell to hold a vote on
immigration in the coming weeks.
ANGUS KING, SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: There was a much more explicit commitment. And that is what I think made the difference.
COLLINS: The minority leader Schumer's decision to concede and accept McConnell's commitment prompting backlash from progressives. Including the
16 Democrats that voted against the short-term resolution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not trust him at all. He has promised Lindsey Graham and Susan Collins, Jeff Flake, made promises and commitments that he
has not honored.
CONWAY: Distrust in Washington is nothing new. It now extends to the FBI given President Trump's very public war with the nation's top law
enforcement agency. Axios claims the FBI Director, Christopher Wray, threated to resign amid pressure from Attorney General Jeff Sessions to
fire the FBI Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. President Trump they have repeatedly target McCabe over his handling of the Hillary Clinton e-mail
investigation and his loyalty to fired FBI Director James Comey. Suggesting McCabe is biased and questioning why Sessions has not placed
him. The White House insisting in a statement that the President supports Director Wray but asserting that politically motivated senior leaders have
tainted the FBI's reputation.
[10:10:07] ANDERSON: Kaitlan Collins reporting for you. While those domestic issues brew in the United States, the conflict in Syria has range
for more than six years has created another layer of chaos. A new wedge being driven between the United States and its NATO ally Turkey. For a
third day Turkey's military offensive continues targeting Kurdish militia in northern Syria. Those Kurdish fighters are U.S. allies but the Turkish
government labels them terrorists. America and Trump have called on Turkey to exercise restraint, but the Turkish President shows no signs of backing
down. CNN's senior international correspondent Sam Kiley is on the Turkish/Syrian border for you. Sam?
SAM KILEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I am just here just after nightfall, very much about three kilometers from the border. We've
been hearing sporadic artillery effectively going over our heads into this Kurdish enclave, which diplomatic tensions between Turkey and, of course,
the United States, but other NATO allies is being played out in a bloody form on the ground in combat between Turkish troops allied with Arabs from
the free Syrian army up against the Kurds from the YPG. The difference between this and other parts of Syria that dominated by the Kurds is that
the YPG here haven had direct support from the United States. Degree of room to maneuver, both militarily for the Turks because there has been as
response to this operation coming from the United States and from United Kingdom, saying they call for restraint, for the protection of civilians
and also recognizing the Turks have a genuine problem with border security, because the mountains have always been - at decades use as bases for the
Kurds Party to conduct a terrorist operation inside Turkey. Things would be very, very if as President Erdogan has promised, Becky, they pushed the
Turks, push further east along that border that they would come to a direct conflict with the Kurds you have had material support, substantial material
support for Americans in the fight against Islamic state.
ANDERSON: Sam, what did the U.S said in all of this?
KILEY: The U.S. is suggesting very strongly that the French have called for a meeting of the United Nations. Essentially what's going on behind
the scenes most likely is signals coming from fellow NATO partners to Turkey, suggesting that and be pretty tolerant on what is going on in the
(inaudible) as long there is no humanitarian disaster. That is what General Mattis has drawn attention to. There is a problem -- a potential
problem with the undermining of the humanitarian mission. It's been an area where very large number, tens of thousands of refugees from fighting
elsewhere in the Syrian civil war, has been concentrate and this is very close to Idlib, which be a safe zone Russians and Syrian government. That
seems to have broken down. Safe zones on the outskirts of the capital Damascus so there is a very genuine concern as this fighting escalates it
could become a humanitarian crisis and that of course emits that kind of chaos is exactly the sort of chaos that was left of the so called Islamic
State might exploit to come back. That is something the Americans are draw attention to today. I think there's an indication that they longs the
catastrophe which, frankly, is going to be difficult to avoid.
ANDERSON: On the Turkish/Syrian border, Sam Kiley CNN Senior International Correspondent. Sam, thank you. Still to come on this show live from Davos
for you this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All in all they admitted to us there were 12 Nigerian that were sold in front of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: The exclusive CNN reporting that spark a global outcry. What is being done to help migrants in Libya next? I will speak to the man who
heads the U.N. body to protect them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Big strong boys for farm work, he says. 400. 700? 800. The numbers roll in. This men are sold for 1200 Libyan pounds, $400
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Shocking images that sparked a global outcry. I am Becky Anderson this is "Connect the world," we are live from the world economic
forum in Davos in Switzerland this week after my colleague went undercover in Libya, her exclusive reporting spurred action. Footage of people, human
beings being sold as slaves prompted Libyan authorities to investigate the auctions, protests in cities like Paris, debates in the British Parliament
and at the United Nations. My next guest is the abuse of migrants being held against their will in inhumane conditions, they block on our
countries, Joining me now William Swing, Director General for the International Organization For Migration, you agency focus on saving
migrants lives. It is a pleasure to have you with me to discuss this.
You have seen in Libya, you've been working and continuing to work with the Libyan authorities, lots of promises made after those images hit the global
headlines. What is actually being done, sir?
WILLIAM SWING, DIRECTOR GENERAL, INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION FOR MIGRATION: Let me commend CNN for this story. It's very rare in my experience to see
one story bring all of the parties together -- the African Union, the European Union, (inaudible) International Organization Migration and High
commissioner for refugees. We're all in tandem working together, it led to a special summit in November. Since then we are given a mandate to
accelerate the work we've been doing. We have brought 17,000 people out of the slave market and detention center and we did another 8,000 before the
end of the year and we'll do another 10,000 by the end of February.
ANDERSON: Is that enough, though?
SWING: It's not enough. You still have probably 8,000 people in those detention centers.
ANDERSON: They were known about, weren't they? Yet.
[10:20:00] SWING: We already in April discovered the story a we're trying to do something about it. What we're going to do now is continue this
effort. However, if we cannot break the smuggler's business model, which is all about money, then we will ultimately fail. I want to commend the
courage of your reporters who took a lot of risk to go in there to see the slave market.
ANDERSON: Well, it was important. Let's be clear here, exploiting migrants is not exclusive, of course, to Libya. At the beginning of 2018,
where do you have the greatest concerns aside from Libya, clearly a massive issue?
SWING: Libya is clearly one of them. And of the other nine major conflicts from western are other possibilities for slave trade. We have a
problem of illegal recruitment. Young women are recruited to be household servant and end up in a brothel. Young men are told they'll get a good job
and their salary taken way for two year practically like a slave. We're working with the Indonesian government, we took 600 fisherman back home,
slaves that got no money.
ANDERSON: More than 178,000 migrants and refugees crossed the Mediterranean. Viewers, I'm sure you're well aware of this continuing
story. That is according to your organization. So we can over overemphasize how dangerous that journey is. 3,119 people died on just one
journey. 3,119 dead. Is there an education element to this or will people simply keep coming?
SWING: Until we can do something about all the drivers, the arm conflicts, the demographic imbalance the youth unemployment and other world and
smugglers, we've done a very poor job on that, everybody has, and we have to do more.
ANDERSON: Three countries produce more than half the world's refugees, according to one of the U.N. agencies. 5.5 million Refugees from
Afghanistan, .15 million from South Sudan. All of which have seen violent conflict. You've included that in one of the prerequisite in order to
provide a solution. Just minutes ago we told our viewers about a fresh offensive in Syria. How concerned are you?
SWING: I'm very concerned about Syria but I'm ado concerned there conflict of Africa to west Asia. There are no viable short-term solution. There is
very little political leadership on the question of those being expelled, so how do we go there? And we have anti-migrant sentiment.
ANDERSON: So, you have the global elite who's from the worlds of business and politics at the top of this hill the world economic forum tells are
more delegates at a very high level than ever before. So you have an opportunity to grab these men and woman and get them to help you provide
some solutions. What is your message to people here?
SWING: Our message is that migration is not a problem to be solved. It's a human reality as old as humankind that has to be managed responsibility
and humanely and that is not happening.
ANDERSON: Because that is not happening -- I've heard you say that before, and I agree 100 percent with you. But because that is not having, what are
the short-term solutions?
SWING: The short term, number one, is to save life. The emphasis has to be on saving life. I think that is what we have in we have weigh stations
along the migratory routes to the Mediterranean. We warn against the risk of smugglers. We offer those that might have a claim to 1951 Geneva
protection and hand them over to HCR. Those weary from the journey or think they've made a mistake, we take them home. We've taken 8,000 home
and we have posts from Senegal to Cameroon do the same thing. Not to push them back but to save their lives if we can. Secondly we have to be much
more liberal in our visa policies, letting people in. There are not enough legal pathways. Thirdly, it seems to me we have to do much more to educate
our people to come back to historically accurate migration story. Migration has always been overwhelmingly positive. Let me give you one
example. 4 percent of the world are international migrants. They produce 9 percent of global GDP, which is 4 percent more than they would have
produced if they stayed at home. They produce productivity and jobs. That story's has been forgotten.
ANDERSON: With that, we'll leave it there, but we will ensure that that story gets some coverage thank you, sir.
[10:25:05] SWING: Thank you very much.
ANDERSON: William Swing is the Director General of the international organization for migration joining us here in Davos.
Just ahead, it may be cold here at the top of the mountain top, certainly is when the sun goes down, but globalization is a hot topic at Davos on
opening day. I'd be taking a closer look with an international relations expert after this.
ANDERSON: You're watching CNN. This is "Connect the World" with me, Becky Anderson, live from Davos. If you just joined us, you're more than
welcome. We're anchored in the snow here in Davos in Switzerland, for a gathering of the rich and powerful at a time when global inequality is on
the rise. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi opened the world economic forum a short time ago. He is concerned by what he sees as globalization
under attack and in his view that is something to be staunchly defended at a time when division between the haves and the have nots is greater than
ever. More and I am joined by Parag Khanna Senior fellow at the (inaudible) in Singapore, so Nagendra Modi wants to roll out the red carpet
and cut out the red tape. The irony is coming from the leader of the country which has a history of protectionism. What did you make of the
PARAG KHANNA, SENIOR FELLOW, SINGAPORE: It was certainly a two-part speech. Well, let's say three parts. One is certainly the warning against
Donald Trump and protectionism, and nationalism. He talked about the fractured world theme that the forum itself is sort of driving with this
The second part is, of course, promoting India, like invest in India, make an India, those really go hand in that, and as you said, he wants to cut
the red tape, India is open for business. India has witnessed record in flows of foreign investment.
It is a winner from globalization now. And it is finally hitching itself onto that train. Then, there -- you would remember actually from right
here, this time last year, Xi Jinping was given the same slot.
And he gave a very similar speech. Remember that Donald Trump had just been elected and everyone was worried about America first, and
So, in a way, China and India are sending similar messages. Globalization has been very good for them. It's been very good for Asia. It's time to
remember that, you know, these are still very competitive economies, very high-growth rate, large populations. So, he said the right things.
ANDERSON: Kicking off a week which will rounded off of course by the arrival here of Donald Trump. He will bring his America first message to
this gathering. America first versus globalization, it seems, is where we're at.
I want to read our viewers something that you wrote recently. Let me quote, globalization has turned the world from a pyramid with America at
the top into a spider web, to make us celestial analogy, geopolitical order is not a solar system with one star in the center around which all planets
It is more like a constellation, a pattern of bright stars bound by mutual gravity. Almost poetic words but it poses a reality of course of
globalization for many people, anything but bright. Modi says globalization is under attack. Is it worth defending when so many are have
not's in a world where just some haves?
KHANNA: We have to get our facts straight on this, Becky, because the warnings they're issuing are absolutely correct. And there are so many, as
you say, who are very worried about globalization as one of the drivers of main equality but there are many others.
But let's bear in mind that in survey after survey, the vase majority of Asian populations, which is the vast majority of the world population are
very positive and very bullish about globalization.
They have seen in the past 40 years exactly, their gains in wages, their gains in GDP, increase stratospherically. They are certainly worried about
the closing off of western economies. They're worried about the rigging of rules from the same countries -- by the same countries that invented, in a
way, these modern multilateral institutions where Asians have benefited.
So they are -- the tables have really turned to some degree. But I do not worry about the health and globalization at all because it's, A, a lot more
than just whether or not the United States is protectionist.
The quote you have read earlier was backed very much by facts. If you will look at the growth in trade between the regions of the world -- the major
economic regions of the world, first of all, American trade with Asia is growing a lot, right?
So despite what Trump is saying, remember, the trade deficit with China wouldn't be growing if trade with China wasn't growing. So what we have to
focus on is not whether globalization is good or bad. It's rebalancing it, it's steering it. And that is about domestic politics, by the way, as much
as international trade.
ANDERSON: So here what you're saying, but I want to get us -- to have quick look at the Oxfam Survey which was released, do come inside of
course, with the meeting of the global leaders at the top of each government.
It says India's richest one percent garnered as much as 73 percent of the total wealth generated in the country in 2017. The report's findings
indicate the rich have disproportionately benefited from liberalization while others have been left struggling.
While are leaders in the developed and developing world seemingly unable to get to grips with what is this inequality. Whether you -- whether it's an
increasing inequality, whether globalization provides some aspiration for those who will hope to have more in the future. There is that gap.
KHANNA: That's right. There are two points that should be made on this. The first is that, usually what happens is that, with this rapid growth
that occurs, the cause of interconnection of economy isn't growing trade and financial close, you do have increase in inequality.
And it takes time for the majority of the population didn't catch up but eventually, that does happen, and we actually see in a number of countries,
poverty being reduced, wages rising and so forth.
Inequality is something different because the financial globalization, you do create a stratum of super wealthy individuals and therefore,
statistically speaking, you still have high inequality.
But I want to say something that maybe -- may or not be enough controversial. But you don't solve inequality by talking about inequality,
right? If you want to do something about the problem, you actually have to address poverty.
You have to look at the majority of the populations, 50 percent or 60 percent of the populations of all countries in the world, including
America, including western societies and Asian countries, where you have to lift the floor, right? You don't lift the floor by lowering the ceiling.
[10:35:04] KHANNA: The point is that, that's about domestic politics. It is about redistribution. It's about taxation, right? It is about maybe
It is all the things that governments can do and should do if they want to enhance redistribution, if they want to make sure that the bottom of the
pyramid really benefits. And that's not something that's done by reversing trade flows, right, because otherwise you would not have this rapid poverty
reduction that we have experienced.
ANDERSON: You're a pleasure to have in the house, sir.
KHANNA: It's great to see you.
ANDERSON: Thank you.
KHANNA: Thank you.
ANDERSON: In Davos.
KHANNA: Thank you.
ANDERSON: We are going to see Parag Khanna, senior fellow at the Lee Kuan Yew School in Singapore. Well, a man whose job it was to help care for
people is being charged with 97 murders. I repeat, 97 murders.
This is Niels Hoegel. He is a former nurse that is already serving a life sentence for murdering six patients. These new charges could make him one
of the country's deadliest serial killers ever. Let me get you to Berlin for the details. Atika Shubert is across us. What have you learned,
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's actually more than 100 murders because Niels Hoegel has already been convicted of two -- murdering two of
his patients. He was actually earlier accused of murdering six of them.
And now prosecutors have added charges of 97 more murders. This is actually a long-running case. This is a nurse who was working in two
And he would -- according to his own testimony in court, he would inject his patients with drugs that would bring on the symptoms of a heart attack.
He would then jump in to try and rescue those patients and he would often succeed, giving him this feeling of euphoria, his colleagues would tell him
he is doing a great job and he would love that feeling.
But, of course, there were times he did not succeed and he would fall into despair, and it turned into this very strange and twisted cycle where he
would, you know, intentionally inject his patients with these harmful drugs to try and save them, and then not succeed.
And it went on and on like this for decades. And in fact, during the trial, a number of the loved -- the relatives of patients who had died
under his care started to question, well, did my mother or father, did my loved one die this way?
And this prompted investigators to actually exhume bodies and do a number of toxicology reports. This is a process that lasted months and it now
looks as though investigators are saying they have enough evidence to charge him with at least 97 more murders.
ANDERSON: Atika Shubert out of Berlin for you. It's 4:37 there in the afternoon. Live from Davos, you're watching Connect the World. I'm Becky
Coming up, the price of crude oil moving to multiyear high, why are tensions still so high among the gulf nations? It's a good question.
We're going to take a look at that after this.
[10:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: All right, you're back with us. This is Connect the World. I'm Becky Anderson. We are live from Davos in Switzerland, for you for the
rest of the week. Welcome back. This year's Davos summit focuses on working together in a fractured world.
Easier said than done especially, it seems for oil producing Middle East states 2007 -- sorry, 2017, I'm 10 years behind here. So almost
unprecedented instability in the gulf region, giving the crisis over Qatar at the start of 2018, oil prices are bouncing around at a multiyear year
The region remains a place of high tension and high ambition. CNN's emerging markets editor, John Defterios. He was a dear colleague of mine
and we both resident in the UAE.
So we probably forgot more about this story than most people will ever know, is with me here. Creating a shared future in a fractured world -- I
can get my teeth around there. But that is the M.O. for this meeting, and as we were just coming to this interview, we were discussing how fractured
the region that we live in is at this point.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN EMERGING MARKETS EDITOR: And in fact, when you talk to people in the region, they say, oh, why are you so surprised? We have the
Iran-Iraq war, we have had the revolution and the Iran.
We have had these challenges through the year but I think what it the difference at 2017 and spilling into 2018, the Two Holy Mosques (ph), Saudi
Arabia is at the core of the dispute.
And let's not forget, one of the GCC members, which is Qatar, has been completely isolated by Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain and Egypt. It's
unprecedented, if you will, Becky. That's a huge challenge here.
And I think the price of oil, when we talked two years ago, fell down to $26 a barrel. But in the Middle East producers were panicked, the oil and
gas publicly traded major oil companies were in a panic.
We've gone up $40 since then and that was a collaboration between Saudi Arabia, of course, and Russia, and getting better than 20 producers to
collaborate. That has stabilized the economy of the region. But it's the political tensions, the geopolitical risks now back into play here that has
ANDERSON: And just explain where we believe that is and how we believe that will play out at the beginning of 2018?
DEFTERIOS: In terms of the region of the risk. Well, in Turkey -- in the oil price, for example, I think we built in $10 into geopolitical risk.
It's not all about the Saudi Arabia-Russian deal for sure.
And I'm sure you agree with me on this, many are saying Qatar tensions are very high. It's just one incident that could go the wrong way. If you
thought a year ago, we would have a conversation about a Houthi missile going into Saudi Arabia and trying to attack the airport, we would say, you
are nuts, right?
That's not part of the narrative here. So can we find common ground between Saudi Arabia and Iran? What happens with the waiver program from
the United States when it comes to the overall nuclear agreement?
It's a huge issue for 2018? Is Iran still in the tent with a nuclear agreement or outside the tent? I think that's the number one issue with
regards to the bilateral ties between Saudi Arabia and Iran.
ANDERSON: You have just spoken to the Qatari finance minister. What did he tell you?
DEFTERIOS: Well, this is fascinating, Becky, because I said, look, you fought to have an independent foreign policy but at this stage, you're
paying a huge price for it because it's economic isolation.
It's quite candid conversation that we had together. He said, look, it was the shock therapy that we could have never planned for but that we needed
to go through. What is fascinating, if you go back, very difficult eight months, they grew 2.5 percent.
We're waiting looking for the final numbers in 2017, projected to grow just over 3 percent in 2018. So I asked him directly, can you still survive the
isolation? Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALI SHARIF AL-EMADI, QATAR'S FINANCE MINISTER: Qatar is always been open for business, nothing before GCC but it was also globally.
I think, this blockade and the challenges that happened in the GCC probably be more opportunities for the state of Qatar where most of what we've done
previously has a lot to do with GCC integration.
Today I think we're really also focusing a lot of how the country will be self-stainable and self-dependence on many sectors of the economy. So I
think going forward, I don't think Qatar economy or its economical policy will change.
Actually, it will be more resilient. We have to deal on the eight months of the blockade. Lots of people give us a few weeks to survive this,
despite whatever we had under eight months, we are still the fastest growing.
DEFTERIOS: Senior officials in both Saudi Arabia and the UAE have told me that they have moved beyond Qatar. They don't really see Qatar as part of
the gulf now. Are you preparing that -- for that new reality?
AL-EMADI: Well Qatar is part of International Business Economic as a -- as a whole.
DEFTERIOS: But I'm asking you something differently, you know? I'm asking you very directly.
AL-EMADI: No, no, no, please.
DEFTERIOS: Senior officials in Saudi Arabia, and the UAE, and some other members of the embargo say they have moved on.
[10:45:03] AL-EMADI: Well, let's compare. Let's take any 10 or 20 major economic indicators, globally, locally, internationally, whatever you want.
Let's see what we've done with our money.
Let's see if people will say that Qatar has a lot of wealth and they've been -- you know, they've been using money to do this and this and this.
So I always say that. We use our money for the best of the people. And this is the way we would like to continue, and this is our policy.
DEFTERIOS: So you see this as a tribal dispute because from the outside looking in, it looks like, two young leaders, Saudi Arabia and Qatar that
can't find common ground, and you have to become real life this war. This is going to be in reality that being normal with Qatar not part of the
AL-EMADI: I always say that, you know, we expect sometimes political disputes one way or another, or I think the challenge of this was really
social fabric of the GCC, the people, the families, the kids, you know, people are -- you know, their families are torn apart, some of them are,
you know they have families in Saudi Arabia.
DEFTERIOS: It looks very personal, actually.
AL-EMADI: It is and this is what I always say that it went beyond the normal political disputes.
DEFTERIOS: Ali Sharif Al-Emadi there, the finance minister of Qatar. You know what's amazing though with this three percent growth, if you go
digging through the numbers, 15 percent rise in construction spending.
They're spending over, as you know, $200 billion on the world cup for 2022, that is driving the growth. That lasts for four years. If you don't have
this cleared up, it's not going to be great for the tourism.
They're connecting flights coming from Dubai and Abu Dhabi for World Cup. So, it's almost artificial growth. They've done a great surviving
isolation but we have to keep in mind, they are spending over $200 million, that's better than 100 percent of their GDP that is driving the growth now.
It won't last forever.
ANDERSON: John Defterios, in the house for you. We are in Davos. This is Connect the World. Sun is going down, getting a little colder but it is
beautiful up here. Coming up, mixing are and politics on the streets of Tehran. I'll speak to the artist who painted these incredible murals in
[10:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANDERSON: It's a country that's barely been out of the news over the last year, Iran from protests in the streets to President Trump posturing about
its nuclear deal. In his words, the worst deal of all time.
We've been covering it all along at Connect the World. But behind the political headlines, lies a country and art scene, vivid and thriving. So
let's speak to one man mixing Iranian art and politics with his work.
Mehdi Ghadyanloo has painted more than 100 giant murals in Tehran. It has been described amongst other things as Iran's Banksy. He is here in Davos,
which is not quietly a Sir Banksy type of character to be.
But I know you are here to talk to some of the great and good there of times described about how art can help heal the fractures of this
contemporary world. Just briefly, because I know you're going to lecture on this to those gathered here. Many -- you know, how does that work?
MEHDI GHADYANLOO, IRANIAN PAINTER: I know the limits of art maybe, but it's not very limited, but it can raise sympathy and also it can raise
awareness about the problems. And in my works I usually create some kind of utopian landscapes to the problems of my city. And the problems of -- I
mean, different cities that I'm working.
ANDERSON: Well, you live and work in Tehran, as I understand it, correct?
GHADYANLOO: Yes. But sometimes, I travel to do some public art projects. And I did one in Boston.
ANDERSON: All right. Well, let's take a look at some of the work you have done in Tehran. We'll bring up some historical footage of you of the -- of
what some described the brutal, almost 10 year war between Iran and Iraq.
We have to pull these images from our archive. You probably just need to close your eyes unfortunately to remember these scenes. Your father, I
know, was on the frontlines of the fighting. Can you tell us how a battle like this, shaped and defined your art?
GHADYANLOO: I think my generation is anxious, as a generation who live after the revolution, lived during the years of air raids in the
(Inaudible) and, unfortunately, in a very unsettling geopolitical place that we are not.
Especially in the Middle East and in Iran, I think our self-conscious is deeply effected by the things that are happening to us from the outside and
ANDERSON: Let's have a look at some of the work. We are looking here -- in the middle of last year we broadcast Connect the World from under what
was this incredible ceiling. Let's just bring that up. This was in Tehran -- if we can bring that up, so that our viewers can see this.
Here, during the elections. And that is absolutely breathtaking. But it's not the only example like that in Iran, which has an astoundingly rich
architectural history of course, beautiful, vibrant and intricate. Has that shaped, not only your appreciation for art but also of all Iranians as
GHADYANLOO: I'm sorry.
ANDERSON: When we look at the sort of imagery, that kind of beauty that you've grow up with...
GHADYANLOO: Exactly, yes.
ANDERSON: ... how does that influence you?
GHADYANLOO: Actually, my mother was (Inaudible. So I used to see lots of colors and carpet designs in my home. And I was fun of it, actually.
So I was used to like an impressionist painter. I was used to study sunlight and sunrise when I was working in the field. And then, I found
that I'm really loving painting. And our team -- our country, also, has very rich visual archive of architecture, painting, story telling and I was
so lucky, actually.
ANDERSON: You alluded to these murals on the walls in Tehran. Just walk us through the full process.
GHADYANLOO: OK. I started 12 years ago in Tehran. And my statement was that, this city is so gray like many other cities and people are angry,
like many other cities maybe in Tehran. Tehran was a bit more than other countries because of lots of pressures and also maybe economic pressure.
And I thought that if I can distract people for even five seconds to not think about their problems, how many lives can I save with not letting to
think about their problems and then I can prevent heart attacks and I can prevent lots of bad consequences of thinking about...
ANDERSON: Well, I was going to ask you, I mean, I don't know if you know about how this has affected people's health, but just looking at these
images, they're absolutely extraordinary. How have people responded?
GHADYANLOO: I mean, people really love these paintings. And recently, I mean, during these three, four, five years that taking selfies is more
popular than ever. They're taking selfies and they became actually very actually identical for the places that I'm working there.
ANDERSON: Is Banksy an inspiration to you?
GHADYANLOO: Actually, I did not know him despite his talent. But my -- I mean, I think my statement was to improve life quality through my art.
[10:55:00] For example, I decided to use blue colors to calm down people, you know. And blue, big skies in a polluted city like an activist...
ANDERSON: Yes. It's remarkable stuff.
GHADYANLOO: Thank you.
ANDERSON: And we congratulate you. Thank you.
GHADYANLOO: Thank you.
ANDERSON: All right, your artist for you here on the show as we are closing things out. But, before we go, our Parting Shots for you tonight.
Remember the legend that was Hugh Masekela, who lost his battle with prostate cancer earlier today.
Well his incredible music of course didn't just echo one of the major scenes here at this year's World Economic Forum. But we should perhaps the
biggest challenge facing that of our world and that is inequality.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Born in 1939, his songs often captured life under apartheid by highlighting the experience of ordinary South Africans who turned in three
For many, Masekela, will be remembered -- best remembered these 1987 track bringing back home, calling for the release of being imprisoned, Nelson
Mandela. And that song itself became an item for the anti-apartheid movement and made Masekela a name around the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON: Well, wherever you are watching around the world, that was Connect the World live from Davos. Thanks for watching.