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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Woman Disappear Mysteriously Without a Trace; Good Begets Good; Mentally Disturbed Wife Killed Her Kids; James Cheleskis tried to kill his wife; Cops: Girl, 8, Lured From Wal-Mart And Killed; Cops: Fake Mailman Wanted In Philly Home Invasion. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired January 25, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is Crime and Justice.
It started with a minor accident on a Virginia road near the nation`s capital and it ended with a young man dead and a police department rattled
when an unsuspecting Uber driver crashed into 25-yer-old Bijan Ghaisar. Ghaisar took off even though he was the victim.
And the chase was on. And he just kept on driving. Even when police were clearly, clearly on his tail, they do manage to pull him over three
separate times and it is clear as day in the video that they`ve just released. Very first time an officer`s gun actually seems to be drawn when
they pull him over and the officer even yanks on that driver`s door.
So it`s clearly not going to end there. Police pulled Ghaisar over one more time about a minute and a half later even exiting the freeway at this
point. But they don`t make a whole lot of headway this time with him either.
Deja vu all over again. Ghaisar steps it up a notch next time, decides to lead police into a neighborhood now. Finally he comes to a stop at an
intersection and this would be his last stop. Ever.
Ghaisar was shot nine times all together. Four times in the head. And he died at hospital a week later. Well, now his family`s lawyer is accusing
the officers of being, quote, "out of control" and quote, "overaggressive." Though he doesn`t meant that the family has no idea why this young man just
kept driving off.
And a car chase in Arizona yesterday morning ended with a crash rather than gunshots in fact. And a driver in handcuffs rather than in the hospital.
If you look at the video, you can see this man speeding really rather recklessly, this is along a freeway and what`s weird is that he is talking
on the phone to the police and he`s telling them that he is not bound by law.
Surprise, surprise. The maverick takes his joyride to the streets, reeving in and out of traffic. And this is where it got really bad. Slamming into
that oncoming car and pinning on the other side of the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Head on. Collision with --
BANFIELD: Head on. You bet. He gets out of this car and as you are about to see, he doesn`t take off. He just waves his arms while other people come
out of the building to check if he is OK. And he starts boldly asking the bystanders if they recognize him. Maybe they think he is the one in the
crash and maybe they don`t.
But they certainly do let the police know who he is when the police arrive on the scene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you guys know who I am?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s him right here! Hey! That`s him right here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And it makes you wonder why 31-year-old Mitchell Taebel decided to stay there on the scene and wander amongst the bystanders because he was
arrested right there on the sidewalk.
And on his way to jail, he reportedly told the local media, DPS had no reason to pull him over. No reason? Really?
Good Samaritans are supposed to get a dose of karma, good karma after they do something nice. But that is not what happened to a Connecticut woman who
gave a man a ride to a gas station after he had been involved in a crash. It`s a nice thing to do.
[18:04:56] And in return he tried to carjack her, throw her to the ground and wrestling for her keys. This is the scene before a man actually comes
out of the convenience store to the right of your screen and them attempts to give the carjacker a kick. He doesn`t know what to do next.
He and the woman run inside the store eventually but the would-be criminal does not give up so easily. He actually runs across the lot and picks out
another car. This is why you do not leave your car in the -- keys in the ignition of your car when you are getting gas.
He actually gets into the red SUV while the driver is just out pumping the gas, pushes the passenger out of the door and takes off. But (Inaudible)
still ended up behind bars because he returned to the scene of the crime off camera actually he did that. He collided with a metal pole and now he`s
reportedly facing charges like arson and carjacking and assault and breach of keys. And none of those is an easy day in court to be sure.
When you imagine the last place before somebody disappears, often conscious that vision of like a dark screen and late at night, it doesn`t conjure up
the images of a quiet Sunday morning when someone is on the way to church.
That is exactly when 39-year-old Adria Hatten went missing. After leaving a friend`s house in a town outside of St. Louis wearing blue jeans, boots and
a V-neck, she was just on her way to pray and no one has seen her since. Not even her two kids.
But police have seen her white Ford Focus. It was found two days after she vanished, abandoned and stuck in the mud in a rural field 15 miles south of
where she was last seen and in the opposite direction of where she lives.
Family members say her purse was in the car which makes her more alarmed about her whereabouts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RASHELLE LARABY, ADRIA HATTEN`S COUSIN: I don`t think she is hiding. I don`t think she would never leave her purse or in her car. She would never
leave her car as she just got her car back. She would never leave either one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The strangest part of Adria`s disappearance is that police say there is no evidence of foul play that`s been developed. While saying the
circumstances surrounding Adria`s continued disappearance are concerning.
Sheriff John Laken is with the Madison County Sheriff`s Office and he joins me live from Edwardsville, Illinois. Sheriff, I am very confused by that
statement that there is no evidence of foul play that`s been developed. It sure looks like foul play to me. What am I missing?
JOHN LAKEN, SHERIFF, MADISON COUNTY: Well, first of all, thank you for having me and the interest in the case.
Whenever we mentioned no evidence of foul play, there is nothing at the scene that would indicate to us that she was violently removed from her car
or anything like that. It is a unique set of circumstances that her vehicle would be found in the area that it was.
Obviously the -- from what we found at the scene, she came to the end of a roadway and was trying to either make a U-turn or some sort of turn and her
car became stuck in the mud at that point.
You know, there are some circumstances here that obviously we are looking into. In cases like this, we rely heavily upon media such as yourself and,
you know, the public.
BANFIELD: I hope we can help out. Because there is nothing like getting the word out when someone like this could be in great danger. We covered
the case once of a woman who disappeared from her car and again, it was a scene where her car was found in the mud.
But what was intriguing about it was that there was one set of footprints leaving the car. Do you have anything like that any evidence showing one or
two or more sets of footprints in that mud?
LAKEN: Well, I obviously I`m not going to get into a lot of our evidence of what`s going on with the case in particular, but there are -- there are
some footprints around the vehicle. I can tell you that when we are notified of the vehicle being located, we immediately dispatched our drone
team to the area and we had a drone in here.
We had -- we had at least 50 people on foot searching this large area. We had cadaver dogs, we had dogs and with research dogs. We have used the
Illinois State Police aircraft. We used ATVs. We`ve done a very, very thorough search of that area. And we`re coming up with nothing. So --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: So that`s interesting. That when you say that area, clearly that`s several miles south of where she lives and God knows what that area
is in relation to the church where she was supposed to be headed that morning. Do you know what church she was headed to and have you found
anybody who might be able to sort of flush out the details of what might have happened?
LAKEN: Well, as of about a half hour ago, I checked with the chief of detectives Mike Dickson and he indicated that at this point we`ve not been
able to pinpoint a particular church that she would have gone to that morning.
[18:10:04] She was associated with several churches in the area that we`ve been told about, however, as of, like I said, just a short time ago, we`ve
not been able to confirm that she was seen or anybody a witness or at any of those churches so we don`t know if she in fact made it to a particular
church that morning.
BANFIELD: But at least you do know at this point that she has associations with a few churches so you`ve got some lead and directions to go to,
correct?
LAKEN: Correct. And we are following up on every, any call or any lead that comes in. It is a -- it`s troubling to us that we`ve not been able to
locate her and we`re hoping that with the help, like I said of the public and the media that we`re able to bring this to a conclusion and hopefully
that it`s a good conclusion. I mean, we owe that to the family.
BANFIELD: Of course.
LAKEN: There are lot of investigators that are working tirelessly on this, but we`re working obviously to find her for her family as well.
BANFIELD: Sure. Sheriff, real quickly, no woman would leave without her cell phone or her purse. And we know the purse was in the car. Was her cell
phone there, was a bank card in there or was there any use on any bank cards or credit cards that you know of?
LAKEN: I`m not going to get into the evidence that we found in the vehicle. We have been made aware that she does at times operate with
several cell phones. So we`re not going to rule anything out. There is absolutely nothing off the table on this case right now. And we`ll work
very diligently to come to a conclusion.
BANFIELD: Sheriff Laken, I really appreciate you`re taking the time you took to talk to us. And maybe we can, you know, join you again at some
point to see where you with the progress in the case and maybe get that picture out there a little more and see if we can conjure up some tips and
some clues. Thank you, sir.
LAKEN: Absolutely. I appreciate your time and I`m sure the family does as well.
BANFIELD: Speaking of the family, I want to bring in Rashelle Laraby, she is Adria`s cousin and she joins me now from Edwardsville, Illinois. Listen,
I really appreciate this, Rashelle. This has got to be an extraordinarily difficult time for you.
Do you know of anything that might be helpful in terms of trying to dig out clues on where your cousin could be? Does she have a boyfriend? Did she
have a husband? Where are her adult children? What do you know about the extended family?
LARABY: She is married. She does have a teenage daughter and adult son. They have been passing out flyers and posting on social media as well.
BANFIELD: And what about her mood. I mean, when was the last time you spoke with her? What was, you know, what was Adri`as -- you know, what was
her mood like? What was her Facebook like in the days leading up to her disappearance?
LARABY: The last time I had seen her was Christmas. She was happy to be around her family and her son was there which was awesome. As her
disappearance, I don`t understand it. It`s completely mysterious.
BANFIELD: And everything seemed to be going well?
(CROSSTALK)
LARABY: Her Facebook -- her Facebook is --
BANFIELD: Yes. Tell me about the facebook,. So what was on her Facebook?
LARABY: She has been posting pictures of her being happy. I mean, that`s all we`ve seen as family.
BANFIELD: And again, I`m not sure if I could hear you or not, but did she have a boyfriend, did she have a husband? Anything like any love interest?
LARABY: She has a husband. Yes.
BANFIELD: And what`s he doing?
LARABY: He`s doing the same as we are. Posting on social media and passing out flyers and doing the best we can to get the word out that she is
missing and if anybody has any information to turn into the police or turn in to her family.
BANFIELD: Well, Rashelle, I wish you all the best and so much luck in trying to, you know, generate these leads and find out where Adria is. And
our thoughts are with you and your family at this very difficult time. Thank you for being here tonight.
There are more questions than answers tonight after two beautiful little girls were shot to death while sleeping allegedly by their own mom.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did I do, Lord? What did I do? What did I do?
(END VOICE CLIP)
BANFIELD: Is Sarah Henderson really didn`t know what she was doing, is that enough to keep her out of prison?
[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Police are saying she planned it, saying she spent two weeks at home with her family planning to shoot her two daughters, little daughters
in the head and then turned the gun on her husband. But whether or not she planned it, Sarah Henderson only got so far and when you hear her voice in
the background of her husband`s 911 call, you can only imagine her reaction to what she had done.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Henderson County 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. My wife -- my wife just shot her kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is this Jacob?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your wife`s name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s trying to commit suicide now. She`s trying to choke herself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you keep grabbing your neck?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is her name, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Henderson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah Henderson?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The thing that make this story more tragic is that 911 call was not the first call to police that night. Sarah husband Jacob had called 911
just three hours earlier saying his wife was not acting normally.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
[18:20:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: EMS. This is Patricia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am. I was wondering if I could get somebody to come out here and check my wife out. My, she`s like. I don`t know, like,
something is going on with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Can you describe what`s going on? The symptoms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like, she`s -- like she`s freaking out like somebody is out to get her.
(END VOICE CLIP)
BANFIELD: That husband Jacob back just minutes later saying never mind, his wife had returned to normal. But as you know, protocol, police came
anyway and they determined she was just fine.
And it would just be a few hours later they would be back at 2.30 in the morning. That was after Sarah woke Jacob up to tell him she had shot her
own two daughters.
Now Sarah Henderson has been charged with two counts of capital murder for killing her daughters and one count of attempted murder for trying to kill
her husband. The gun jammed.
And in a strange twist, another count has been levied against her for trying to rough up a jail jail guard. What happened to Sarah Henderson and
will she pay for what she`s done with her life?
Crime and Justice Producer Michael Christian has been chasing the story all day. He joins me now. This is absolutely perplexing. Because you know, they
seem like a fairly normal family. Although, I will say CPS have visited the home back in 2011. Do you know why?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, PRODUCER, HNL: No. They have not released why. But the children, these two girls were either they`re not born back in 2011 or the
oldest one Kaylee would have been very young. Now we know there is also a son that Sarah Henderson had. That child was not living in this home. He
was living in another county with his biological father. So perhaps it involved that child. We just don`t know.
BANFIELD: So these are allegations now of capital murder of two counts, attempted murder, assault of public servant. It doesn`t get more serious,
you know, than that in Texas. A death penalty state.
In 2015, Michael, police were also there for something they called a verbal disturbance. What happened there?
CHRISTIAN: Apparently a neighbor called the cops and said there was this disturbance and when police arrived, all they found was Sarah Henderson out
in the yard yelling at somebody on her cell phone. So she was having some sort of cell phone argument but there was nobody else there and so the
police just left.
BANFIELD: So I want to play a little bit more of that 911 call because there a lot of sort of telling signs in the background. You can clearly
hear Sarah Henderson as Jacob is calling in to report that this all happened.
Most of it is about being confused about everything that was going on.
CHRISTIAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: So, let`s listen to, again, this is the dispatcher saying that the ambulance is on the way. And the dispatcher keeps -- keeps Jacob
talking with Sarah in the background. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an ambulance headed that way as well as officers, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is there anything else you need us?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did I do that, babe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not trying to leave or anything, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s going on here, Jake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing is going on. That`s what I tried telling you.
She keeps saying somebody is after her. There`s nobody after her. She keeps saying people are coming. There`s nobody even here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hasn`t been under the influence of any type of drugs or anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did I do, Lord? What did I do? What did I do, God?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Dr. Charles Sophy, he is a psychiatrist and also the medical director of the Los Angeles County Department of Children
and Family Services. Doctor, thank you so much for being here.
CHARLES SOPHY, MEDICAL DIRECTOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY DEPARTMENT OF CHILDREN AND FAMILY SERVICES: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I want to parse into that phone call and the things that are being said, you know, at the moment, spontaneously by Sarah in the
background. They stood out to me in terms of her legal defense. And that is this. She says, "why did I do that, babe? What`s going on here, Jake?" And
then Jacob says "she keeps saying someone is after her. She says people are coming." And then Sarah says, "What did I do, Lord. What did I do? What did
I do, God? Help me. What God?"
You know, if you are a defense attorney looking for an answer, that sounds like insanity.
SOPHY: Yes, absolutely. And if she does have a mental health history which I think she does, she is certainly acting paranoid, she`s acting
suspicious, she`s also acting like she is not really in reality and aware of her actions and the ramifications. So, yes, it certainly does.
BANFIELD: And isn`t that exactly what you need to prevail in insanity defense even in a place like Texas where Andrea Yates can drown five of her
children and get one guilty verdict thrown out and then a not guilty by reason of insanity verdict. When you just don`t understand the nature and
consequences of your actions and you have an underlying mental illness.
[18:25:00] SOPHY: Right. That`s all you need.
BANFIELD: So, if you are the prosecutor in this case, are you seeing something else?
SOPHY: Yes. You could possibly delve deeper into those things and is it really an issue that she has been on her medication? Does she have a
documented mental health history and a disorder and has she had problems in the past? Those are the things I would look into. Because if there were
lapses in that treatment or there is not actually a real solid diagnosis, those are the places you can poke holes through.
BANFIELD: And Dr. Sophy, does it matter at all that in another part of the 911 call, you can hear Jacob saying "stop trying to choke yourself. Stop.
Stop."
SOPHY: Yes. It tells me though, at a certain point she was able to see the outcome of her behavior and now she is trying to escape it or she is
directing her harm on herself because she feels so bad and knows what`s about to come.
BANFIELD: It`s just - it`s so extraordinary to hear, you know, things spoken in such a calm way with such a panic in the background at the same
time. I can`t imagine what poor Kaylee and Kennely (Ph), seven and five went through and what Jacob went through when the gun jammed.
My thanks to you, Dr. Sophy.
SOPHY: Thank you.
BANFIELD: And thanks to Michael Christian as well.
BANFIELD: Still to come, a convicted sex offender is accused of murdering an 8-year-old girl named Cherish Perrywinkle now wants the court to toss
out a massive chunk of the evidence, the evidence that the prosecutors have collected against him. Just about all the evidence in fact. We`re going to
find out. And we`re also going to hear from Cherish`s mother, Rayne Perrywinkle. What she thinks about this outrageous request from a convicted
sex offender.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: He seemed to be such a nice guy, more than nice. In fact, a generous man who came out
of nowhere, offering to buy her family new clothes. He said he had a Walmart gift card, and he wanted to spend it on them.
But instead of giving, it seems he took. Took an 8-year-old girl from her mom and her sisters and took away her innocence. And according to the
police, took away her life. This is what Cherish Perrywinkle`s mother sounded like when she realized the danger her daughter was in when she
disappeared from the Walmart.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Jacksonville 911 Robinson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Hi, I`m at Walmart on Lem Turner, she`s been taken.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): What do yo mean?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Taken by a stranger. I can`t find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): OK, where did you last see her at?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Walmart. I met a man today at Dollar General and he saw that I was struggling to buy them some clothes. He drove
us here to by us some clothes and the only reason I went with him is because he said his wife was going to be here. Because I told him I don`t
take rides with strangers.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): OK, she was last seen with this man?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yes, he went -- he said he was going to McDonald`s and he hasn`t been there. Because the store is closed right now.
He said he was going to McDonald`s, she went with him, I should have told her to stay with me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He was going to the McDonald`s inside the store?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yes, there`s a McDonald`s inside the store. He wasn`t here. Somebody said they saw him, but he`s not here. He
should have had the -- the nerve to stand here and wait. He must know that I am panicking right now.
I don`t understand why he would leave right now unless he was going to rape her and kill her. That`s the only reason. And I`m wasting my time standing
here.
Oh, gosh. He knows the store is closed. He knows McDonald`s is closed. Why in the world would he take --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): You don`t see the van in the parking lot of anything, where you all left it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Well.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Have you been outside to the parking lot?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I went outside the door, but I don`t think I see the van. Yes, he took her. He took her away.
BANFIELD (voice over): Sixty-one-year-old Donald Smith has been charged with kidnapping, sexually assaulting, and killing that little girl,
Cherish. And we are just days away from his trial. But there are certain things he does not want the jury to see. He is asking a judge not to let
the jury see the autopsy photos that show little Cherish`s body or some of the surveillance video that shows how he approached her family.
He has also asked that the jury not hear about that little girl`s life and how it has impacted her friends and family now that she`s gone. A girl who
was born on Christmas eve and, quote, her mother`s best Christmas gift. A girl who loved to play at school with her sisters. A girl who had just
ridden a bicycle without training wheels. And a girl so many people are missing tonight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cherish Lily Perrywinkle. Precious little 8-year-old beautiful young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): She is a beautiful, very smart, intelligent child that never stopped asking questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I raised Cherish since she was 10 months old. She is so smart and so loving.
[18:35:00] Always so happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a child that appreciated everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a beautiful young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): She wanted to grow up and be somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Taken from us way too soon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Roger Henderson is the news director for WBOB. He joins me from Jacksonville, Florida. Roger, about this list of evidence that Donald Smith
wants suppressed from his trial, it`s a long one, so get comfortable.
In the first aspect, he wants the autopsy photographs suppressed and this is his motion, quote, the great majority of potential jurors have never
seen the types of photographs taken during an autopsy and to place such photos before the jury would do nothing but shock them and inflame their
passions to the detriment of the defendant.
It`s almost laughable to me who has covered more murder trials than I can remember and almost every single one of them has an autopsy picture.
ROGER HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR, WBOB (via telephone): Well, Ashleigh, the photographs obviously are very graphic. A very young girl`s life was taken.
They are so gross. Photos of her lifeless body. They will obviously evoke emotion and sympathy and therefore this defense team doesn`t want the jury
to see them.
BANFIELD: Yes, murder and rape is pretty graphic, too. That`s all I have to say about that. Let me move on to the victim impact statements.
Donald Smith hereby moves this honorable court to prohibit evidence or argument designed to create sympathy for the deceased, victim impact
evidence, including but not limited to the impact of the offense on the friends and/or family of the deceased, the impact of the offense on the
community, the life history of the deceased or any personal characteristics of the deceased.
What on earth is he saying? It is part of court procedure, especially right before the death phase of a trial, and I`m presuming he will get to that
phase. That`s what happened. People say what the loss has done to them. And that`s what the jury is supposed to weigh. How does he expect to get away
with this request?
HENDERSON (via telephone): I don`t know, Ashleigh. Again, very emotional when you hear from a mother and family member who have lost their loved
one. And he doesn`t want the jury to have emotion evoked and therefore doesn`t want them to have victim impact statements. Not quite sure how that
is going turn out. I doubt the judge will --
BANFIELD: I doubt that`s going to happen. I doubt that he would suppress that, just, you know, from empirical data and covering cases like this.
The autopsy pictures were not the only things he wants suppressed. He wants photographs of his genitals suppressed as well. He said, the photographs
are extremely prejudicial, and having them introduced to trial does nothing but humiliate the defendant.
I think that there is something more to this story. I think, Roger Henderson, there is something about those genitals that actually creates
evidence. What is it?
HENDERSON (via telephone): Yes, I agree with you completely and I actually learned something following the case. The authorities tell us that bruises
on the genital area of the type that were seen in these photographs are consistent with sexual abuse and therefore I believe to be one more layer
of evidence to prove his guilt when it gets to the trial. He doesn`t want the jury to see that.
BANFIELD: So the rap sheet is too long to read and this is the next thing he wants suppressed. This is fourth request, at least. I`m only going to do
the lowlights that pertain to this particular crime and that involves lewd assault on a child back in 1977. Attempted kidnapping in 1992.
Also in 1992, sale and distribution or showing of obscene material to minors. And in 1998, lewd and lascivious behavior. That`s just one of more
than a dozen that I just have to scroll past. There is actually action on that request. What was it?
HENDERSON (via telephone): Well, it was definitely a long list of criminal history in this guy`s case. And in the past, you have an indication of how
the judge would rule because he has denied similar requests in the past.
BANFIELD: OK. Then there is this. This one blows me away. The surveillance video that showed clearly this man leading her outside the Walmart and
around the Walmart, et cetera. He wants that surveillance video suppressed. It is called evidence in most cases. What`s his argument here?
HENDERSON (via telephone): Well, the prosecutors have enhanced a video circling certain items and having arrows pointed at key points. They are
saying now that -- the defense team is saying that because the video has been altered, it is therefore unable to be properly authenticated because
of the enhancements that were made to the video.
BANFIELD: Yes, well that happens live in court all the time to point to help the jury get a grasp on where the action is happening and actually let
them see it a little more clearly. That`s an interesting request that is highly unlikely.
[18:40:00] So then the jail house audio. They strung a few microphones between Donald Smith`s cell and the cell of his pal next door. And they
captured some choice conversations between these two who were talking about I think 12 to 14-year-old girls, sounded more like talking about grown
women. Here`s the taste of what the audio they captured was.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): There were two females with Wesley. And, I don`t know, I can`t tell you how old these girls were you hear? But man,
this one looked like about 12, 13, 14 at the most you hear?
Big (bleep) cantaloupe-sized (bleep) and got a (bleep) that make coco look like (bleep) you hear?
You can sit a wine glass on top of this girl`s (bleep) you hear me? It would sit perfectly.
I`m like goddam.
This (bleep) fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake hair. Look like a grown (bleep) woman, you hear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Twelve to 14-year-old girls. How many more hours are there of that kind of audio?
HENDERSON (via telephone): Seventy-two hours of audio was reported. Smith did not realize he was being recorded obviously. The statements of the
prosecution has narrowed it down to four minutes and as you probably can guess, the defense wants that audio excluded from the case.
BANFIELD: Yes. There is also a photo of a rope that was apparently purchased that night they want suppressed. And like I said to all of this,
good luck with that. Roger Henderson, thank you for that.
Straight ahead, Cherish`s mother, Rayne Perrywinkle, is going to join us. We are going to find out what she thinks about this outrageous motions,
this demand that this already convicted sex offender, registered sex offender now wants suppressed in the trial against the little girl he is
accused of raping and killing. That`s next.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We are talking with the mother of an 8-year-old little girl who was taken from her in the worst way imaginable. A man approaching their
family while they were out shopping at a Walmart and offering to buy them new clothes, before prosecutors say he stole Cherish Perrywinkle away, took
her out of that Walmart, and had his way with her before he ended her life.
Donald Smith is just days away from a trial now. And Rayne Perrywinkle is possibly just days away from getting justice for her daughter. The 61-year-
old perpetrator accused of kidnapping, sexual assault, and murder is trying to keep the jury from seeing the very full picture that the police have
been able to collect.
Rayne Perrywinkle is Cherish`s mom. She joins me now from Jacksonville, Florida for an exclusive interview. Rayne, thank you so much for being with
us tonight. May I just begin by saying we are so sorry to be speaking with you under this circumstances. First and foremost, this is always a
difficult question, but how are you managing?
RAYNE PERRYWINKLE, MOTHER OF VICTIM: I just take every day one at a time. Right now, I have a migraine from stress which I have a lot of. I don`t
know how to explain it. Just how I go on.
BANFIELD: Have you got support and help as you get closer to trial and do you plan to be in that courtroom every day of trial?
PERRYWINKLE: I plan to be in the courtroom, but I will be in a separate room. I have permission to be with everyone else, but because it`s so
personal to me, I have been to be in another -- I have decided to be in another room, because I will be very emotional and I don`t want to get
thrown out of the courtroom, so I have to be in another room.
BANFIELD: I think everyone can understand that.
PERRYWINKLE: So I can watch the rest of the trial.
BANFIELD: I think people would clearly understand everything you are saying and back you on that as well. Do you have a question about some of
the things we just reported that the accused in this case wants taken out, he wants the jury never to see a long list of the evidence that the police
have collected. I wanted to get your reaction to that.
PERRYWINKLE: I don`t watch the news very often. All this is new to me, what you are telling me.
BANFIELD: So there are so many things from the victim`s impact and his background and the photographs of him and the surveillance video from the
Walmart that night. Jail house tapes they collected in which he has said awful things about young girls.
A picture of a rope he bought that night. So many of these things that his side is arguing that they don`t want in the case, they don`t want getting
in that courtroom. And I can only imagine that if you are seeking justice, you want every piece of that evidence to go before the jury. Is that right
or wrong?
PERRYWINKLE: I do. Yes.
BANFIELD: There is one piece of evidence that is extraordinarily difficult for families and many times they leave the courtroom because of it. In
almost every murder case I ever covered, the autopsy
[18:50:00] pictures are presented to the open court, so the jury knows exactly what happened, so that the jury sees how evil the crime was,
whether they think the man did it or not. They see how horrible the crime was.
That is horrifying for family members to see, but sometimes critical for the jurors to see if they are going to make a good decision in the case and
decide upon justice. How do you feel about the autopsy pictures going into that courtroom?
PERRYWINKLE: I want to see them because that`s my daughter. I feel it`s my duty to see them. I really don`t want anyone else seeing them because it`s
my child, but at the same time I want justice for Cherish. So, I have to allow the pictures in the courtroom. It hurts really bad to say it.
BANFIELD: As painful as it is, I think I can understand that mixed emotion you must have as a parent. Are you getting help? Do you have a victim`s
advocate or someone from your state helping you to sort of get ready for what`s coming in the next week and a half?
PERRYWINKLE: I have a victim`s advocate, but there is only so much she can do. I mean, she can`t wear my shoes. She can`t sit in the witness stand for
me. She can guide me, but part of me doesn`t want anyone in there.
I don`t want to sound selfish because people have helped me as far as they can go, but at the same time, I`m the one that ultimately has to take the
last step. I have to testify. It`s going to be very hard, but I have to do it.
BANFIELD: So when you do that, when you have to get up in that witness box and you have to face that man, Donald Smith, he will be in that room and
you will probably see him for the first time since that awful night.
Will you be able to take the court back to that night and can you do that for me now? Take me back to who that person was who approached you and
describe for me what he was like.
PERRYWINKLE: Well, he was following us around the store. At first I thought he was looking at me. But it took a couple of weeks before I
realized he was looking at Cherish. You know, to fit all the pieces together in a puzzle.
I just thought he was looking at me even though I felt weird about him, he told me later on that I was safe. He looked into my face and told me I was
safe. He made out that he was a Christian, that he was going to church, and he was just pretending that he was a father.
He said he had a couple of little ones. And I thought, well, how old are you? I had no clue at that time I was facing a monster. I had no clue until
it was too late.
BANFIELD: Rayne, what do you want to see happen to Donald Smith?
PERRYWINKLE: He deserves the death penalty. I always believed in it. Even before this happened. This is not a vengeance thing. This is a justice
thing.
BANFIELD: I can`t tell you how much I appreciate you, really to summon up the courage and, you know, the bravery to be on television tonight to share
this story. Justice is hard and painful and getting through it and getting to the end of it is not an easy process.
We are there with you and we hope that you are going to be OK as you go into that case and you go into that courtroom. I hope you have a lot of
people standing there with you.
PERRYWINKLE: Thank you, Ashleigh, very much.
BANFIELD: OK. And I hope we can meet you on the other side in a different circumstance. Thank you, Rayne.
PERRYWINKLE: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I cannot imagine. There is an urgent manhunt in Philadelphia under way tonight for a fake mail man accused of a brazen home invasion in
broad daylight and yes, there was a baby involved.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight, just because someone looks official, doesn`t mean someone is official. Case in point, this guy looks
like a mail man. But if you watch closely, what happens as he approaches that dad putting his infant in the car, he pulls a gun on him, and not any
gun, a semi-automatic handgun.
So, the fake mail man then forced this dad back into his home but not before deciding to leave that baby unattended in the back of the car. All
the time the he is perpetrating this crime, the baby is alone. Look what happens. Three more guys come running to give him some help with what they
are about to do.
The police say all four suspects spent 15 minutes ransacking that man`s house. Once they were done grabbing everything they could which included an
iPhone 7 and $5,000 worth of stuff, they took off. And now it`s up to you in the Philadelphia area because police there are asking for your help in
finding these four people.
The father sustained only minor injuries. Thank God, the baby was unharmed, but really, harm isn`t just physical.
[19:00:00] Next hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE starts now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They say dead men tell no tales. And this former teacher thought that would be the case with his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Standing behind me, he kissed my forehead and slit my throat from one side to the other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because she discovered his affair with a 14-year-old student.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was able to brain wash a child.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How she kept herself from dying as he read from the bible and dialed up his middle school girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You did want her to die. You expected her to die. You wondered what was taking so long to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hear what the judge said about his brand-new home behind bars.
He thought something was wrong with his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you come and check my wife out.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And called the cops back with this. That wife had shot her two little girls.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I woke up and she came in there and said I shot the kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would she kill those kids?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why did I do that, babe?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And does she deserve death?
He is accused of snatching a young girl from Wal-Mart after winning her mother`s trust.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe he was grooming her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But that`s exactly what prosecutors say he did just before he killed her. Now, with the trial just days away, he wants the
evidence buried.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This evidence by nature of what it demonstrates is indeed damaging to the defendant.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pictures and video he said are unfair. Is the motive to avoid death at any cost?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to the second hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE.
The man I am about to describe never thought that his wife would be alive to tell the story. To stand just a feet away from him in a Michigan
courtroom and then watch him like this. As she told the judge in detail how he kissed her sweetly and tried to kill her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He came out of the closet behind me and my head was tipped pressing on the back of the chair with my eyes closed. Standing
behind me, he kissed my forehead and slit my throat from one side to the other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: How James Cheleskis reportedly tried to kill his wife is shocking enough. But then add it that their two little daughters were in
the home. Perhaps just as shocking is why James Cheleskis tried to kill his wife. Because that wife Amanda had just learned that her husband,
James, was having an affair. And when she decided to confront him, she didn`t know the half of the affair. Because that affair was with his 14-
year-old student, a girl he had been having sex with regularly for a year- and-a-half. That would make her 13 or so.
But he decided to slit his wife`s throat anyway. And because she was a nurse, she knew what to do to stay alive. She tilted her head to stop the
blood from choking her airwaves. And Amanda survived. And she remembers her husband lying next to her on the ground as she was bleeding out for
almost a full hour. He was reading her bible verses and asking her why it was taking so long for her to die. And on top of that, dialing up his
middle school girlfriend to talk. And it was that child on the other end of the phone who eventually convinced him to call 911.
Detective sergeant Dan Mahoney is the Wyoming, Michigan police department. He joins me now live.
Detective, it is such an astounding fact pattern in this case that it`s hard to believe that Amanda is alive today. But she is truly the linchpin
in all of this. She is really the one that was able to bring this case to fruition and help you to solve this case.
DET. SGT. DAN MAHONEY, WYOMING POLICE DEPARTMENT (on the phone): Yes, it is. It`s amazing how she was able to stay on the phone and give our
dispatch information to help her.
BANFIELD: What was that call like? Can you take me into the voice of a woman who is losing consciousness and somehow he handed the phone to her?
MAHONEY: We originally got on a 911 call. At some point we reconnect and were put on the line with Amanda who did the speaking with the dispatcher.
And she was able to explain that she was severely injured with a laceration to her neck and she felt she was dying and requested our help as soon as we
could get there.
BANFIELD: It is so unbelievable if I look at the probable cause affidavit upon his arrest. He quote "confessed to arguing with his wife, Amanda, and
arming himself with a knife. He advised he was the only one to possess it when a struggle ensue and he and Amanda fell, causing her throat to be cut
from one side to the other."
Was that really what he thought that`s what officials would buy? She fell on a knife from one side of the neck to the other?
[19:05:28] MAHONEY: I think that`s what the story was he fabricated in the time the 911 call was made until the time he arrived based on some
information. I mean, he tried to make a plan to let us believe it was self-inflicted by Amanda. But honestly, that`s not the case that happened
here.
BANFIELD: When you got there, she had been effectively bleeding out for almost a full hour. How close was this? Like how close was she to losing
her life?
MAHONEY: Very close. She lost a large amount of blood. Amanda is trained medical professional and, you know, was able to let the dispatcher know
where her injury was and give the descriptions of what she was feeling. She at some point, a couple of times in the car, mentioned that she felt
like she was going die or pass out really quick (INAUDIBLE) and they got there faster.
BANFIELD: In the courtroom, Amanda talked about her children and how she was someday going to have to tell her children the truth about what
happened. I want to play that moment and ask about it on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some day when it`s appropriate I have to tell them their father is not with us because he tried to kill me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Detective, those children were in the home when all of this happened. And I think they were somewhere around the ages of two and five.
Correct me if I`m wrong. Where were they and how did your deputies find them?
MAHONEY: They were sleeping during the assault. And once the scene was secured, couple of the officers found them in the bedroom. Walk the
children up and were comforting them while we were on the scene.
BANFIELD: I mean, they just had no idea? They saw none of the blood? And it is 55 minutes of bleeding from the neck had created a horrific scene and
those children would had to be extracted from the house somehow.
MAHONEY: Correct. We were able to locate close family members off of the city of Wyoming and we contacted them and they were able to come and take
possession and custody of the children.
BANFIELD: And then there is this second issue that is almost as alarming. And that is that there was this 14-year-old child, the student of his, with
whom he was having an affair for a year and a half, meeting her in eighth grade math. How did you discover that child and know that child was the
linchpin to Amanda surviving?
MAHONEY: We discovered that the child or the woman of the alleged affair was a minor and that information was gained from forensic evidence
extracted during an exam of the cell phone. And there was a search warrant draft and authorized and the phone was analyzed and text messages and
communication between the woman and James were locate and that`s how we discovered who she was. They further investigate and learned where she was
at and learned she was a student of his prior.
BANFIELD: So in the courtroom, there are always two sides, a prosecutor and defense. I want to bring in prosecutor in this case. This prosecutor
read the statement from the mother of the 14-year-old victim in this case about how James Cheleskis was able to fool them. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was successful at fooling colleagues, school officials and many other adults including my husband and me so I`m not
surprised how he was able to brain wash my vulnerable and impressionable child as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Monica Janiskee joins me now. She is the chief assistant Kent County prosecutor.
Monica, thank you so much for being here. It almost looks as though this case was sewn up and just, you know, gift wrap and handed to you. But
that`s never the case when it comes to courtroom and litigation.
I did want to ask you a little bit about the victim in this case, the 14- year-old victim. Her mom`s letter included this. Even from behind bars, we haven`t felt that our daughter has been from a person that she should
have been able to trust. He wanted to know if she hated him and if she was being bullied at school. He tried to keep her in his web by telling her he
was on suicide watch.
How have the authorities been able to assure that this man never contacts that child again?
MONICA JANISKEE, CHIEF ASSISTANT, KENT COUNTY PROSECUTOR (on the phone): That`s actually a very good question. His communications were being
monitored closely then after we became aware through the police and through the jail officials that he had attempted to contact both the student victim
and Amanda. Fortunately the letter intercepted and therefore they didn`t, you know, have to read them.
[19:10:21] BANFIELD: How is Amanda doing?
JANISKEE: She is a very strong person. I don`t want to speak for her or, you know, talk about that aspect of our relationship, but she has an
incredibly strong support system. Family, friends, church community. They are helping her and her children through this greatly.
BANFIELD: I want to play a moment of the judge, if I can. The judge in this case, Paul Sullivan, Kent County circuit court was not buying the
defense in this case and was angry obviously enough to say I am pushing the limitations of the sentencing guide lines. But have a listen to what the
judge said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE PAUL SULLIVAN, KENT COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: I don`t buy this mental health stuff. You did want her to die. You expected her to die. You were
wondering what was taking so long to die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Shawn Perry is the attorney for James Chelekis and he joins me from Lansing, Michigan.
Shawn, thanks for being here. This is not an easy case. Certainly, not easy for to you defend. Were you surprised at how it turned out, 30 to 60
years? I mean, that is way out side high, high beyond the guidelines for this kind of crime.
SHAWN PERRY, ATTORNEY FOR JAMES CHELEKIS: I`m a little surprised that Judge Sullivan went that high on the guidelines. And I believe that James
had a plausible mental health illness that directly affected why this crime happened as horrific as it was. But I totally respect Judge Sullivan. I
have known him for many years. And so, I`m not going to question him on that. That will be for another day for another court. But again, I
totally respect Judge Sullivan.
BANFIELD: You going to appeal it?
PERRY: I`m not going to say anything negative. Pardon?
BANFIELD: You going appeal that 30 to 60 days on the fact that it is -- I`m asking if you are going to appeal based on the fact this is outside the
guidelines.
PERRY: James and I are in communications about that. And I`m in communications with his family on whether or not they want to pursue this.
James made it very clear to me from the first time I met him that he wants to cause no more harm to the victims. That includes the victims that were
physically hurt and the victims on the outside like her family.
BANFIELD: Yes. It makes perfect sense.
Real quickly, I want to bring in - also I want to bring defense attorney Troy Slaten and he joins me now from Los Angeles.
I just wanted somebody with an outside view on this, Troy, to weigh in. Look, 30 to 60 is beyond sentencing quite lines. What do you think? Is
appellate? Are there grounds for an appeal here or is it just this so agree just it would never fly?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you never know what an appellate court is going to do. The judge`s job was to weigh all the mitigating and
aggravating factors in his opinion the aggravating factors here far outweighed the mitigating factors so he deviated from the guidelines. But
I think they definitely have a grounds for appeal if this sentence is so outside the norm that it makes it cruel and usual for him.
BANFIELD: I will tell you the judge himself said this. If there was a case for exceeding sentencing guidelines, I think this is it. Pretty
fascinating stuff.
Troy, thank you as well for your input on this. And my thanks to Shawn Perry and Monica Jeniskee and detective sergeant Dan Mahoney as well.
We still have no idea why she did it. Why she reportedly shot her two beautiful daughters in the head as they slept and woke up her husband to
tell him what she had done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an ambulance headed that way as well as officers, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Sir, is there anything else you need?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The penalty this mom could pay now for the midnight shooting police say she had been planning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:57] BANFIELD: Police are saying she planned it, saying she spent two weeks at home with her family planning to shoot her two daughters,
little daughters in the head and then turn the gun on her husband. But whether or not she planned it, Sarah Henderson only got so far. And when
you hear her voice in the background of her husband`s 911 call, you can only imagine her reaction to what she had done.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Henderson county 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. My wife just shot our kids.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is this Jacob?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What is your wife`s name?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s trying to commit suicide. She`s trying to choke herself. Why do you keep grabbing your neck?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is her name, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sarah Henderson.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sarah Henderson?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: The thing that makes this story more tragic is this was not the first call to police that night. Sarah`s husband, Jacob called 911 just
three hours earlier saying his wife just was not acting normally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:20:10] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: EMS, this is Patricia.
I wanted to get someone here and check my wife out. My wife is, I don`t know, something is going on with her.
OK. Can you describe what`s going?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes ma`am. I was wondering if I could somebody to come out her and check my wife out. My wife, she is like, I don`t know, like,
something is going on with her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Can you describe what is going? The symptoms?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like she is freaking out like somebody is out to get her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: That husband called back just minutes later saying never mind. His wife had returned to normal. But as you, protocol, police came anyway
and they determined she was just fine. And it was just a few hours later they would be back at 2:30 in the morning. That was after Sarah woke Jacob
up to tell him she shot her two daughters.
Now Sarah Henderson has been charged with two counts of capital murder for killing her daughters and one count of attempted murder for trying to kill
her husband. The gun jammed. And in a strange twist, another count has been levied against her for trying to rough up a jail guard.
What happened to Sarah Henderson? And will she pay for what she has done with her life?
CRIME AND JUSTICE producer Michael Christian has been chasing the story all day. He joins me now.
This is absolutely perplexing because, you know, they seem like a fairly normal family although I will say CPS have visited the home back in 2011.
Do you know why?
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: No. They have not released why. But the children, these two girls would either not have been born
back in 2011 or the oldest one, Kaylee, would have been very young.
Now we know there is also a son that Sarah Henderson had. That child was not living in this home. He was living in another county with his
biological father. So perhaps it involved that child. We just don`t know.
BANFIELD: So these are allegations of capital murder, two counts of attempted murder and assault of a public servant. It doesn`t get more
serious, you know, than that in Texas. A death penalty state.
In 2015, Michael, police were also there for something that called a verbal disturbance. What happened there?
CHRISTIAN: Apparently, a neighbor called the cops and said that there was a disturbance when police arrived. All they found was Sarah Henderson out
in the yard yelling at somebody on her cell phone. So she was having some sort cell phone argument, but there was nobody else there and so the police
just left.
BANFIELD: So I want to play a little bit more of that 911 call because there are a lot of telling signs in the background. You can clearly hear
Sarah Henderson as Jacob is calling in to report that this all happened. Most of it is about being confused about everything going on. So let`s
listen to - again, this is the dispatcher saying that the ambulance is on their way and the dispatcher keeps Jacob talking with Sarah in the
background. Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have an ambulance headed that way as well as officer, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Is there anything else you need?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did I do that, babe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s not trying to leave or anything, correct?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is going on here, Jake?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing is going on. That`s what I tried telling you.
She keeps saying somebody is after her. There is nobody after her. She keeps saying people are coming -- there is nobody even here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she hasn`t been under the influence of drugs or anything?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did I do? What did I do, Lord? What did I do? What did I do, God? Help me. What, God?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Dr. Charles Sophy. He is a psychiatrist and also the medical director of a Los Angeles county department of children
and family services.
Doctor, thank you so much for being here. I want to parse into that phone call and the things that are being said, you know, at the moment,
spontaneously by Sarah in the background. They stood out to me in terms of her legal defense. And that is this. She says, why did I do that, babe?
What`s going on here, Jake? And then Jacob says she keeps saying someone is after her. She says people are coming. And then Sarah says what did I
do, Lord? What did I do? What did I do, God? Help me. What, God?
You know, if you are a defense attorney looking for some answer, that sure sounds like insanity.
DR. CHARLES SOPHY, PSYCHIATRIST AND MEDICAL DIRECTOR, LOS ANGELES COUNTY, DCFS: Yes, absolutely. And if she does have a mental health history which
I think she does. She is certainly acting paranoid. She is acting suspicious. She is also acting like she is not really in reality and aware
of her actions and the ramifications. So yes, it certainly does.
BANFIELD: And isn`t that exactly what you need to prevail in an insanity defense even in a place like Texas where Andrea Yates can drown five of her
children and get one guilty verdict thrown out and then a not guilty by reason of insanity verdict. When you just don`t understand the nature and
consequences of your actions and you have an underlying mental illness.
[19:25:06] SOPHY: Right. That`s all you need.
BANFIELD: So if you air prosecutor in this case, are you seeing something else?
SOPHY: Yes. You could possibly delve deeper into those things and is it really an issue that she has been on her medication? Does she have the
documented mental health history and a disorder and had she problems in the past? Those are the things I would look into. Because if there were
lapses in that treatment or there is not actually a real solid diagnosis, those are the places you can poke holes through.
BANFIELD: And Dr. Sophy, does it matter at all that in another part of a 911 call, you can hear Jacob saying stop trying to choke yourself? Stop!
Stop!
SOPHY: Yes. It tells me she was able to see the outcome of her behavior and now she is trying to escape it or directing harm on herself because she
feels so bad or knows what`s about to come.
BANFIELD: It`s just - it is so extraordinary to hear, you know, things spoken in such a calm way with such a panic in the background at the same
time. I can`t imagine what poor Kaylee and Kenlee, seven and five, went through and what Jacob went through when the gun jammed.
My thanks to you, doctor Sophy.
SOPHY: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Thanks Michael Christian as well.
Still to come, a convicted sex offender accused of murdering an 8-year-old girl named Cherish Periwinkle now wants the court to toss out a massive
chunk of the evidence, the evidence that the prosecutors have collected against him. Just about all the evidence in fact. We are going to find
out why. And we are also going to hear from Cherish`s mother, Rain Periwinkle, what she thinks about this outrageous request from a convicted
sex offender.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:31:31] BANFIELD: He seemed to be such a nice guy, more than nice, in fact, a generous man who came out of nowhere offering to buy her family new
clothes. He said he had a Wal-Mart gift card and he wanted to spend it on them. But instead of giving, it seems he took. Took an 8-year-old girl
from her mom and her sisters and took away her innocence. And according to the police, took away her life. This is what Cherish Perrywinkle`s mother
sounded like when she realized the danger her daughter was in when she disappeared from the Wal-Mart.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCHER: Jacksonville 911 Robinson.
RAYNE PERRYWINKLE, CHERISH PERRYWINKLE`S MOTHER: Hi. I`m at Wal-Mart on Lem Turner, she`s been taken.
DISPATCHER: What do you mean?
PERRYWINKLE: Taken by a stranger. I can`t find her.
DISPATCHER: OK, where did you last see her at?
PERRYWINKLE: Wal-Mart. I met a man today at Dollar General and he saw that I was struggling to buy them some clothes. He drove us here to buy us
some clothes and the only reason I went with him is because he said his wife was going to be here. Because I told him I don`t take rides with
strangers.
DISPATCHER: OK, she was last seen with this man?
PERRYWINKLE: Yes. He went -- he said he was going to McDonald`s and he hasn`t been there because the store is closed right now. He said he was
going to McDonald`s, she went with him. I should have told her to stay with me.
DISPATCHER: He was going to the McDonald`s inside the store?
PERRYWINKLE: Yes, there`s a McDonald`s inside the store. He wasn`t here. Somebody said they saw him, but he`s not here. He should have had the
nerve to stay here and wait. He must know that I`m panicking right now. And I don`t understand why he would leave right now unless he was going to
rape her and kill her -- that`s the only reason. And I`m wasting my time standing here. Oh, gosh. He knows the store is closed. He knows
McDonald`s is closed. Why in the world would he take (AUDIO GAP)?
DISPATCHER: You don`t see the van in the -- in the parking lot or anything where you all left it?
PERRYWINKLE: Well.
DISPATCHER: Have you been outside to the parking lot?
PERRYWINKLE: I went outside the door, but I don`t -- I don`t think I see the van. Yes, yes, he took her. He took her away.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: 61-year-old Donald Smith has been charged with kidnapping. Sexually assaulting and killing that little girl, Cherish. And we are just
days away from his trial. But there are certain things he does not want the jury to see. He`s asking a judge not to let the jury see the autopsy
photos that show little Cherish`s body or some of the surveillance video that shows how he approached her family. He has also asked that the jury
not hear about that little girl`s life and how it has impacted her friends and family now that she`s gone. A girl who was born on Christmas Eve, and
quote, "Her mother`s best Christmas gift." A girl who loved to play at school with her sisters, a girl who had just ridden a bicycle without
training wheels, and a girl so many people are missing tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cherish Lily Perrywinkle. Precious little 8-year- old, beautiful young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s a beautiful, very smart, intelligent child that never stopped asking questions.
[19:34:59] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve raised Cherish since she was 10 months old. She`s so smart and so loving. Always so happy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a child that would have appreciated everything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a beautiful young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wanted to grow up and be somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taken from us way too soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Roger Henderson is the News Director for WBOB. He joins me from Jacksonville, Florida. Roger, about this list of evidence that Donald
Smith wants suppressed from his trial, it`s a long one so get comfortable. In the first aspect, he wants the autopsy photograph suppressed. And this
is his motion, quote, "The great majority of potential jurors have never seen the types of photographs taken during an autopsy and to place such
photos before the jury would do nothing but shock them and inflame their passions, to the detriment of the defendant." It`s almost laughable to me
who has covered more murder trials than I can remember and almost every single one of them has an autopsy picture.
ROGER HENDERSON, NEWS DIRECTOR, WBOB RADIO: Well, Ashleigh, these photographs, obviously, are very graphic. A very young girl`s life was
taken. And they`ll show the girl`s photo show her lifeless body. They will, obviously, evoke emotion and sympathy, and therefore, his defense
team doesn`t want the jury to see them.
BANFIELD: Yes, murder and rape is pretty graphic, too. That`s all I have to say about that. Let me move on to the victim impact statements. Donald
Smith, hereby, moves this honorable court to prohibit evidence or argument designed to create sympathy for the deceased (victim impact evidence)
including, but not limited to, the impact of the offense on the friends and or family of the deceased, the impact of the offense on the community, the
life history of the deceased or any personal characteristics of the deceased.
What on earth is he saying? It is part of court procedure. Especially, right before the death phase of a trial -- and I`m presuming he`ll get to
that phase -- that`s what happens. People say what the loss has done to them. And that`s what the jury is supposed to weigh. How does he expect
to get away with this request?
HENDERSON: Yes, I don`t know, Ashleigh. Again, very emotional, when you hear from a mother, family members who have lost their loved one, and he
doesn`t want to have the jury to have emotion evoke, and therefore, doesn`t want them to have victim impact statements. Not quite sure how that`s
going to turn out. I doubt the judge will --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: I doubt that`s going to happen. Yes, I doubt that -- I doubt that, that he`d suppress that. Just, you know, from empirical data in
covering these cases like this. The autopsy pictures weren`t the only thing he wants suppressed. He wants photographs of his genitals suppressed
as well. And he said, "The photographs are extremely prejudicial and having them introduced to trial does nothing but humiliate the defendant."
I think that there is something more to this story. I think, Roger Henderson, there`s something about those genitals that actually creates
evidence. What is it?
HENDERSON: Yes, I agree with you completely, and I`ve actually learned something in following the case. The authorities tell us that bruises on
the genital area of the type that were seen in these photographs are consistent with sexual abuse. And therefore, I would believe there`d be
one more layer of evidence to prove his guilt once it gets to trial. He doesn`t want the jury to see that.
BANFIELD: So, the rap sheet is too long to read and this is the next thing he wants suppressed. This is his fourth request, at least. I`m only going
to do the low lights that pertain to this particular crime and that involves: lewd assault on a child back in 1977; attempted kidnapping in
1992; also in `92, sale and distribution or showing of obscene material to minors; and then in 1998, lewd and lascivious behavior; and that`s just one
of more than a dozen that I just have to scroll past. There`s actually action on that request. What was it?
HENDERSON: Well, it was definitely a long list of criminal history in this guy`s case. And in the past, we can get an indication of how this judge is
going to rule because he has denied similar requests in the past.
BANFIELD: OK. Then there is this. And this one blows me away. The surveillance video that showed clearly this man leading her outside the
Wal-Mart and around the Wal-Mart, etc. He wants that surveillance video suppressed. It is called evidence in most cases. What`s his argument
here?
HENDERSON: Well, the prosecutors have enhanced the video, circling certain items, having arrows pointed to certain key points. They are saying now
that -- the defense team is saying that because the video has been altered, it is, therefore, unable to be properly authenticated because of the
enhancements that were made to the video.
[19:39:52] BANFIELD: Yes, well, that happens live in court all the time. They use telestrators to point out who is who to help the jury get a graph
on where the action is happening, and actually, let them see it a little more clearly. So, that`s an interesting request that highly unlikely. So
then, the jailhouse audio. They strung a few microphones between Donald Smith`s cell and the cell of his pal, next door, and they captured some
choice conversation between these two who were talking about, I think, 12 to 14-year-old girls, sounded more like talking about grown women. Now,
here`s a taste of what the audio they captured was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD SMITH, DEFENDANT: There was two females with the client -- I mean, with Wesley. And, I don`t know -- I can`t tell you how old these girls
were, you hear? But man, this one looked like about 12 or 13, 14 at the most, you hear? Big (BLEEP), cantaloupe-sized (BLEEP), and got (BLEEP)
that make Coco look like (BLEEP), you hear? You can sit a wine glass on top of this girl`s (BLEEP), you hear me? It`d sit perfectly. I`m like --
goddamn. This (BLEEP) got fake eyelashes, fake nails, fake hair. Look like a grown (BLEEP) woman, you hear?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: 12 to 14-year-old girls. How many more hours are there of that kind of audio?
HENDERSON: Altogether, 72 hours of audio was recorded. Donald Smith did not realize he was being recorded, obviously, or (INAUDIBLE) these types of
statements. The prosecution has narrowed it down to four minutes and as you probably can guess, the defense wants that audio excluded from the
case.
BANFIELD: Yes, there`s also a photo of a rope that was apparently purchased that night, they want suppressed. And like I said, to all of
this, good luck with that. Roger Henderson, thank you for that.
Straight ahead, Cherish`s mother, Rayne Perrywinkle, is going to join us. We`re going to find out what she thinks about these outrageous motions.
These demands that this already convicted sex offender -- registered sex offender now wants suppressed in the trial against the little girl he`s
accused of raping and killing. That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:51] BANFIELD: We are talking with the mother of an 8-year-old little girl who was taken from her in the worst way imaginable. A man
approaching their family while they were out shopping at a Wal-Mart and offering to buy them new clothes, before prosecutors say he stole Cherish
Perrywinkle away, took her out of that Wal-Mart and had his way with her before he ended her life. Donald Smith is just days away from a trial now.
And Rayne Perrywinkle is possibly just days away from getting justice for her daughter. But the 61-year-old perpetrator accused of kidnapping,
sexual assault, and murder is trying to keep the jury from seeing the very full picture that the police have been able to collect. Rayne Perrywinkle
is Cherish`s mom and she joins me now from Jacksonville, Florida for an exclusive interview.
Rayne, thank you so much for being with us tonight. And may I just begin by saying we are so sorry to be speaking with you under these
circumstances. And first and foremost, this is always a difficult question, but how are you managing?
PERRYWINKLE: I just take every day one at a time. Right now, I have a migraine from stress, which I have a lot of. But I really don`t know how
to explain it. Just how I go on.
BANFIELD: Have you got support and help as you get closer to trial and do you plan to be in that courtroom every day of trial?
PERRYWINKLE: I plan to be in the courtroom, but I will be in a separate room. I don`t -- I have permission to be with everyone else, but because
it`s so personal to me, I have to be in another -- I have decided to be in another room because I will be very emotional and I don`t want to get
thrown out of the courtroom so I have to be in another room.
BANFIELD: I think everyone who watched (INAUDIBLE) understands that.
PERRYWINKL: So I can view the rest of the trial.
BANFIELD: I think people would clearly understand everything you`re saying and back you on that as well. I do have a question about some of the
things we just reported, that the accused in this case wants taken out. He wants the jury never to see a long list of the evidence that the police
have collected. I wanted to get your reaction to that.
PERRYWINKLE: I don`t watch the news very often, so all this is new to me. What you`re telling me.
BANFIELD: So there`s just so many things that, you know, from the victim`s impact to his background, and the photographs of him, and the surveillance
video from the Wal-Mart that night, jailhouse tapes that they`ve collected in which he has said awful things about young girls, a picture of a rope he
bought that night, I mean, so many of these things that his side is arguing that he doesn`t want in the case, they don`t want getting in that
courtroom. And I can only imagine that if you`re seeking justice, you want every piece of that evidence to go before the jury. Is that right or
wrong?
PERRYWINKLE: I do. Yes.
[19:49:52] BANFIELD: There is one piece of evidence that is extraordinarily difficult, though, for families, and many times they leave
the courtroom because of it. And in almost every murder case I`ve ever covered, the autopsy pictures are presented to the open court. And it`s --
so that the jury knows exactly what happened. So that the jury sees how evil the crime was, whether they think the man did it or not. They see how
horrible the crime was. That is horrifying for family members to see, but sometimes critical for the jurors to see if they`re going to make a good
decision in the case and decide upon justice. How do you feel about those autopsy pictures going into that courtroom?
PERRYWINKLE: I want to see them because that`s my daughter. I feel that`s my duty to see them, but I really don`t want anyone else seeing them
because that`s my child. But, at the same time, I want justice for Cherish. And so, I have to allow the pictures in the courtroom. It hurts
really bad to say it.
BANFIELD: As painful as it is, I think I can understand that mixed emotion that you must have as a parent. Are you getting help? Do you have a
victim`s advocate or someone, you know, from your state helping you to, sort of, get ready for what`s coming in the next, you know, in the next
week and a half?
PERRYWINKLE: I have a victim`s advocate. But there`s only so much she can do. I mean, she can`t wear my shoes. She can`t sit in the witness stand
for me. She can guide me, but there`s part of me doesn`t want anyone in there. And I don`t want to sound selfish because people have helped me as
far as they can go, but at the same time, I`m the one that ultimately has to take the last step. I have to -- I have to testify and it`s going to be
very hard but I have -- I have to do it.
BANFIELD: So when you do that, Rayne, when you -- when you have to, you know, get up in that -- in that witness box and you have to face that man,
Donald Smith, he will be in that room and you will probably see him for the first time since that awful night. Will you be able to take the court back
to that night? And can you do that for me now? Take me back to who that person was who approached you, and describe for me what he was like.
PERRYWINKLE: No. Well, he was following us around the store. And at first, I thought he was looking at me, but it took a couple of weeks before
I realized he was looking at Cherish. You know, to fit all the pieces together in the puzzle. And I just thought he was looking at me. And even
though I felt weird about him, he told me later on that I was safe. He looked into my face and told me I was safe. He made out that he was a
Christian, that he was going to church, and he was just pretending that he was a father. He said he had a couple of little ones, and I thought, well,
how old are you? But I had no clue at that time I was facing a monster. Had no clue until it was too late.
BANFIELD: Rayne, what do you want to see happen to Donald Smith?
PERRYWINKLE: He deserves the death penalty. And I`ve always believed in it even before this happened. This is not a vengeance thing, this is a
justice thing. And I stand by it.
BANFIELD: I can`t tell you how much I appreciate you, you know, really coming up with the courage and the, you know, bravery to be on television
tonight to share this story. Justice is hard and painful and getting through it and getting to the end of it is not an easy process. So we`re
there with you and we hope that you`re going to be OK as you go into that case and you go into that courtroom. And I hope you have a lot of people
standing there with you.
PERRYWINKLE: Thank you, Ashleigh, very much.
BANFIELD: OK, and I hope we can meet you on the other side in a different circumstance, and our best to you tonight. Thank you, Rayne.
PERRYWINKLE: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I cannot imagine.
There`s an urgent manhunt in Philadelphia underway tonight for a fake mailman accused of a brazen home invasion in broad daylight. And yes,
there was a baby involved.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. A reminder to never, ever underestimate what people will do to try to get you to trust them. Case in
point, this guy who looks like a mailman, but watch what happens as he approaches a dad putting his infant into a car. That`s right. He pulled a
gun on him, a semi-automatic handgun to be exact. The fake mailman then forced the dad back into his house leaving that baby alone in the vehicle.
Then, dad was tied up with zip ties and duct tape. Three other perps came running to the house. Police say the four suspects then spent 15 minutes
ransacking the place. Once they were done grabbing everything they could, including an iPhone 7 and $5,000 worth of stuff, they took off. Now, the
Philadelphia police are asking for your help finding the four suspects. That father sustained only minor injuries but the baby, luckily, was
unharmed, but when we say minor injuries, he`ll never be the same. Unbelievable.
Thank you so much for watching, everyone. We`ll see you right back here Monday night 6:00 Eastern for CRIME & JUSTICE. "FORENSIC FILES" begins
right now.
END
