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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Trump Arrives In Davos With "America First" Message; Trump Arrives In Davos Amid Talk Of Trade War; Trump Says He's Willing To Speak Under Oath To Mueller; Sudanese Migrants Tortured In Libya For Ransom; Turkey Disputes U.S. Description Of Trump-Erdogan Call; CNN On The Ground As Turkey Fights Kurdish Militia; Two Students Killed, 18 Wounded In School Shooting; Lebanon Grapples With Ongoing Waste Disposal Problems; Michigan State Univ. Pres. Resigns Over Nassar Scandal. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired January 25, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN HOST: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in for Hala Gorani.
Tonight, basking in the attention of the rich and the powerful, Donald Trump makes his Davos debut and promises to bring jobs back to America.
Also, ahead, an unexpected take the president says he is looking forward to talking to Robert Mueller, the man in charge of the Russia investigation.
And monkey see monkey too, scientists in China have closed monkeys. So, could he humans be next?
Let's start the program. It was a Davos debut like no other. U.S. President Donald Trump arriving at a gathering of some of the most
important people in the world. The World Economic Forum hosts royalty, heads of government, chief executives, bosses of some of the most important
It is worth noting, though, that as Businessman Trump, he never got an invite, but look at the moment when President Trump walked into the summit
today. Attendees at a standstill, smart phones everywhere capturing this historic moment.
Our Nic Robinson was among the crowd there and here's what Mr. Trump had to say to him during his arrival.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Mr. President, welcome to Davos, sir. Sir, what's your message for everyone here?
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Peace and prosperity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Peace and prosperity then. What we'll now all be waiting for is the president's speech on Friday. We are expecting him to tout his America
first message at this, of course, globally focused summit.
Let's get out to Davos then for more on that, CNN White House correspondent, Abby Philip, traveling with the president. Abby joins us
now. So, he has been there less 24 hours and he's already taken Davos by storm.
He's got a huge entourage within everyone reporters, business leaders, world leaders all hanging on his every breath it seems, all doing well so
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, so far, according to the president things are going just fine. He seems to be in a pretty
buoyant mood. We just saw him not too long ago at a meeting with some business leaders, who all one by one went around the table and talked about
how much they are investing in the American economy.
For President Trump at year one of his presidency, this is a victory lap for him. It is an opportunity for him to talk to a group of people in the
highest echelons of the global economy about how he thinks his America first agenda is working out.
He is going to be touting the stock market increases over the past year, touting a very low unemployment rate 4.1 percent, and also touting the tax
cut package that he was able to get through Congress in the last month that a lot of businesses are now turning around and saying that they are going
to reinvest in the American economy as a result.
Now at the same time, not all of the jitters on the global stage about President Trump have gone away just because of this positive economic news.
There is still a lot of concern about the march of populism on the global stage.
But President Trump has been in some ways the leader of, but for these folks here, for this White House, this is an opportunity for them to say it
is not as bad as you thought. In fact, it might be even better than you imagine.
I think President Trump is going to be taking a rare opportunity for him to say that he -- that his policies are doing exactly what he promised.
JONES: The speech that President Trump is giving tomorrow, Friday in Davos, do you think the final draft of that will already be signed and down
and dusted or given the fact that he's had bilateral talks today with Theresa May of Great Britain and also Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel, and all
of these business meetings as well, might be the final script still being reworked?
PHILLIP: That is right, Hannah. I think it is often in the case of this president that he is working on things up until the last minute, aides
going back and forth revising this, and we should also know that the president's chief of staff is not actually traveling with him this week in
Davos. He is back in Washington.
So, I imagine that's going to contribute to this. Look, the president is very busy today. He has a lot on his plate today, but he also has several
meetings tomorrow as well. I think we can expect that that speech is going to be a work in progress up until the last minute.
JONES: OK, busy time for you as well. Abby, thanks so much. Abby Phillip live for us there in Davos.
[15:05:05] Well, that's the political view. So, let's get the economic side of the president's big speech. Also in Davos is our Richard Quest.
Richard, welcome to you. You've been covering Davos I think for the last 15, 16 years now. So, give us your view on how this summit this year is
going? How is it different because of the man in the oval office?
RICHARD QUEST, CNN ANCHOR, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS": Well, disagreements at Davos aren't new, but what I think what is interesting about this
disagreement is on the question of trade. You often don't find the Western alliance, for one of a better praise, going in opposite directions.
And no matter how much the U.S. thinks you do not protest too much, saying that they are in favor of fair trade, that thought of trade war, that they
just want America first and a level playing field.
The reality is that other countries have been very clear, Merkel of Germany, Macron of France, Trudeau of Canada, (inaudible) of Brazil, May of
the U.K., have literally said again and again globalization is the way forward, not to have an isolationist or to set yourself apart.
And that's the way they are doing it. They are not sort of saying you are isolationist, it's more don't set yourself apart.
JONES: But this idea of America first, I get the impression that the U.S. team out there in Davos are trying to give it a different spin now and say
this is not about being anti-globalization or isolationist even.
I know that you spoke earlier to President Trump's key economic advisor, Gary Cohn. He talked to you about America first and also what we might get
to expect from the speech tomorrow. So, let's just play some of that interview for viewers and we'll talk to you off the back.
GARY COHN, CHIEF ECONOMIC ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: When the president delivers his speech tomorrow, he's going to talk about the role that
America plays in the world and as America grows, the world grows, and it's good for the world to grow. We benefit when the rest of the world grows
and the rest the world benefits when America grows.
QUEST: And yet, as the president was speaking and signing his solar panels and washing machine tariffs, here President Macron, Angela Merkel,
President Temer (ph), Theresa May have all put a more globalization message than the president.
COHN: And by the way, we are really excited to hear that because we really believe in free, fair, open and reciprocal trade. We would love the
European Commission to drop their tariffs on many of the items that we would love to export from the United States. We have dropped our tariffs
on most items, and we would have free, open, fair and reciprocal trade.
That is exactly what we are looking for in the United States. We are looking for a level playing field. We want to be a part of a level global
QUEST: You are taking level playing field as a very narrow definition as being a zero-sum game in terms of deficits versus the opposites.
COHN: I'm not taking it as a zero-sum game at all. I'm talking about it as a reciprocal world where we treat each other as countries equally.
Right now, we are not in a fair level playing field. We are in a playing field where many, many countries charge tariffs for U.S. products and we do
not charge their product a tariff to come in the United States. So, we put our workers at a disadvantage. We want to level the playing field to put
our workers at a competitive equal level to workers around the world.
QUEST: The perception is that that is protectionism.
COHN: No, no. It's the opposite. It's the opposite. Our products are charge tariffs around the world today. Other people's products are not
charge tariffs to come into the United States. That is the reality of what we have in the world today.
GORANI: There you go, Richard. Gary Cohn there telling you that it is not about protectionism. This is just about fairness. How is that going to go
down then with the global counterpart that are going to come across this coming few days.
QUEST: Do not watch what I say, watch what I do is going -- is the mantra. You have to remember with trade talks, it is always nuanced, and it is
always a matter of interpretation. You have some countries here who are the most protectionist you'll ever come across, but who will profess
strongly that they are in favor of free trade.
There are all sorts of extraneous issues such as what stage you are in the economic development? Are you a net surplus or net deficit situation? The
reality is the perception of Donald Trump's policies that they are protectionist or at least taking the U.S. away from the future of open
Now they can protest all they like, but when you have Merkel, Macron, and all the others extolling globalization and warning and those warnings are
geared to one man, Donald Trump.
JONES: Richard, at the beginning of the program as well when we were talking to Abby Phillip, we were showing our viewers some pictures of
President Trump with a number of very senior business leaders and what looked a bit like kind of a cabinet meeting if you like.
[15:10:06] I am wondering whether this is unprecedented in terms of previous Davos World Economic Forums and whether the leaders in question,
the businessmen, whether they were expecting to be on camera sitting around the table with the president of the United States praising him?
QUEST: I have no doubt that they knew they were going to be on camera. Donald Trump doesn't do much that is not designed for public consumption on
these sorts of issues. But here's the rub, Hannah, they cannot afford to annoy the president.
You know, those who are invited tonight able to boast that they sat with the Davos rock star of the 2018 forum who has invited them to invest more
in the United States, and that all those companies are big investors in the U.S. anyway and are probably beneficiaries of the tax cuts regardless.
So, you know, let's not to worry too much about the optics of this. Longer term Donald Trump has to convince the rest of the world that he is open for
business. When he says it, he means it and that that the policies he will espouse will be the same tomorrow as they were yesterday.
JONES: Richard, always good to talk to you and get your analysis. Richard Quest there live for us in Davos. I know you'll be back at the top of the
hour with "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" of course. See you then, Richard. Thank you.
Now some of President Trump's remarks on the sidelines of the Davos have already touched off controversy with Palestinian leaders, now accusing him
of blackmail. Mr. Trump met with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and he issued a new threat to withhold aids to Palestinians
unless they stop, quote, "disrespecting the United States and agree to peace talks."
Palestinians say the United States cannot be an impartial broker after President Trump recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Palestinians
also want Jerusalem as the capital of their future state. Mr. Trump suggest he did them a favor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We have a proposal for peace. It's a great proposal for the Palestinians. I think
it's a very good proposal for Egypt. It covers a lot of the things that were over years discussed and agreed on.
But the fact is, and I think you know this better than anybody, there would never any deals that came close because Jerusalem -- it could never get
pass Jerusalem. So, what people said I set it back. I didn't set it back, I helped it because by taking it off the table, that was the toughest
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, Mr. Trump's every word is sure to be scrutinized in Davos, but what he said before he left home is also making some headlines. The
president stopped by an off-camera meeting between his chief of staff and reporters and talked about a number of things including the Russia
He says he would love to be interviewed by Special Counsel Robert Mueller under oath (inaudible) quite big caveat.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you going to talk to Mueller?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm looking forward to it, actually.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want (inaudible)?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: There's been no collusion whatsoever. There's no obstruction whatsoever, and I'm looking forward to it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have a date (inaudible)?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I don't know. I guess, they are talking about two or three weeks, but I would love to do it. You know, again, I have to say
subject to my lawyers and all of that, but I would love to.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To reach a higher standard, you would do it under oath?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I would do it under oath, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, let's get the very latest on this now from Washington. I'm joined by CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson. Stephen, great to
have you on. So, he says he wants -- he will be interviewed, and he wants to do it under oath. The fact that he's come out now to talk so publicly
about this, is this the work of Donald Trump, the great tactician or Donald Trump, the great performer?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Probably, a bit of both. I think it was a surprise to his staff and particularly his legal team that
he went this far last night, especially since earlier this week, month, Trump said that there was probably no need for him to talk to Mueller
because there hasn't been any collusion.
But we learned this week that the Mueller investigation, at least on the obstruction of justice piece, appears to be getting towards the end and
that Mueller wants to speak to the president. Now we are into a situation where Trump's lawyers and Mueller's team are discussing the terms of any
interview with the president.
So, in some ways, the president by coming out and saying, sure, I'll talk to Mueller, no problem at all. I've got nothing to hide makes it look for
him good politically. The problem with that is his lawyers are conducting these intricate negotiations as we speak over the terms of the interview.
In some ways the president may have undercut his legal team because Mueller can now come out and say, well, the president is ready to speak to me at
anytime, anyplace, let us get on with it, but is not quite as simple as that.
[15:15:05] JONES: Yes, not simple as well when you think that the president is leading now the Republican attack on the FBI as well. This is
this war on the FBI, if you like. Interesting, Stephen, we had a tweet earlier from Jim Comey, the former FBI director. I think we can bring it
up on screen for our viewers now.
I won't read all of it, but effectively he saying that Russian interference into American elections is a bipartisan concern and it is something that we
should -- that every American should be concerned about.
I am wondering, Stephen, if he is not afraid to speak out, this is Jim Comey is not afraid to speak out as this Russia probe picks up pace, if you
like. So why then is the president and why is his posse so keen to make this a political vendetta, if you like, against the FBI?
COLLINSON: I think the reason is because his insurance policy should Mueller come back and say that the president obstructed justice in the
firing of James Comey, that he or members of his campaign team colluded with the Russians in any way in the 2016 election meddling effort, they can
-- they've already prepared the political groundwork.
Because it is very unlikely, for example, that Mueller would try to prosecute the president if he thought he was guilty of wrongdoing, but he
could refer a report to the House of Representatives and say, I have found these conclusions and I suggest that you need to look at whether we should
start impeachment proceedings against the president.
Now the House of Representatives right now is controlled by Republicans and they would obviously have a very difficult dilemma of what the president,
his Republican allies in the conservative media is doing, is preparing political grounds for that to off pressure on Republican leaders,
Republican congressmen, who have to take that decision to proceed against the president and to convince them that it would not be in their political
So, they are gaming the system, if you like, ahead of the release of the Mueller report whatever it says.
JONES: Right. Well, another thing that came out in that off-camera briefing that Trump showed up for was his views potentially on immigration
policy and DACA, these are the DREAMers, undocumented immigrants to the United States.
Now this is something that Breitbart, for example, and his traditional base are particularly seemingly upset about. Breitbart actually coming out with
this headline, "Naming Donald Trump as Amnesty Don because he suggested that there might be a path to citizenship for some of these DREAMers.
Is he just sort of dangling carrot to see who takes the biggest bite? Who praises him the most at the moment when it comes immigration?
COLLINSON: You know, it's difficult to tell because just a week ago, the president rejected a deal on the fate of these DREAMers, people, children
brought to the United States illegally by their parents and it led to a government shutdown.
Now he is saying he is in favor of a path to citizenship for these people. You know, there is a real whiplash going on here. It is difficult to say
what point -- what the president's policy is at any one point.
The Democratic leader, Chuck Schumer, last week compared negotiating with the president to Jell-O because he has so many different moving positions
so there is going to be a renewed debate on immigration in the next couple of weeks. Perhaps the president changes position, perhaps he has not,
perhaps this position will be different next week, but it was this week.
So, it is all very confusing. You know, Donald Trump governs by confusion and it could be his opening bid in a new negotiation, but I think most
people in Washington is going to wait and see what happens when it comes to crunch time and what his position is then.
JONES: So many hypotheticals to be tackling at one time. Stephen, great to have you on the program. Thank you.
Still to come tonight, officials have made arrests after a shocking video shows the alleged torture of migrants in Libya. This follows our reporting
on slave auctions there. We'll have that story next.
And CNN has been at the frontlines of lighting along the Turkish-Syrian border. We'll show the scene amid fears of a new refugee crisis.
JONES: A footage is shocking and barbaric, Sudanese migrants kidnapped and tortured in Libya, filmed pleading for their families to pay their captors
ransom demands. The families of these men contacted CNN following our reporting on the slave auctions. The videos have been circulating on
social media but have since been taken down.
CNN has viewed them, but it has not been able to independently verify them. Our Nema Elbagir has the details and a warning images in Nema's report are
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You can hear the slap of the whip --
(voice-over): When praying as the men forced to raise their heads to the camera and one man screams to the torture (inaudible). The families of the
men show here tell CNN they were sent these videos as ransom demands and they disseminated them tagging CNN to raise awareness of what (inaudible).
(on camera): But that's not all, there was another video of a man being tortured oil and fire dripping on his back, and that's really all we can
show you. The rest is too horrifying and it's hard to imagine that these are actually the lucky one.
The pictures we are showing you here, these are pictures disseminated by the Libyan Special Forces after they say they carried out arrests of the
traffickers suspected of sending and filming those horrifying videos.
There are hundreds of thousands of African migrants held hostage by traffickers as they attempt to cross Libya to pursue their dreams of
Europe. There are those still now as we speak held under horrible conditions of deprivation and torture.
An ongoing CNN investigation has traced many of these money trails crisscrossing across the globe. We spoke to the families of victims in
Sudan who were given bank accounts, agents to hand the money over to. We were shown receipts for money transfers.
This is a global criminal network and it is still active as we speak. The Sudanese Foreign Ministry says it has summoned the Libyan (inaudible) in
Sudan to register its protest and its warning its nationals not to cross illegally through Libya, not to attempt the illegal migration to Europe.
But is it enough? That remains to be seen. All we know is that thankfully, miraculously, the men that you see here are for now safe. Nima
Elbagir, CNN, London.
JONES: This just in to CNN following that report, we are hearing from U.N.-backed government of Libya. It has released a statement confirming
the arrests of the suspects and the freeing of those hostages you just saw. It says authorities have started investigations to bring the perpetrators
to justice. It also renews its condemnation in the strongest terms of this criminal act.
Now there is yet another sign that relations between the United States and Turkey are getting ever more strained. Turkey is now accusing the White
House of lying about what was said on Wednesday's phone call between Presidents Trump and Erdogan.
The White House reported that President Trump called on Turkey to escalate its incursions into Northern Syria, where Turkish forces are battling U.S.-
[15:25:10] It says, Mr. Trump warned against actions that control U.S. troops into the fight, but Turkish officials say the conversation wasn't
nearly that adversarial and that Mr. Trump did not express any concerns about the fighting.
Meanwhile, the situation on the ground in Syria grows increasingly scary. Red Crescent officials worry refugees could soon come pouring out of
Syria's Azaz (ph) region where fighting continues now for six straight days.
CNN's Arwa Damon is the first international journalist to report live from Azaz during this conflict and she joins now from the Turkey-Syria border.
Arwa, to start with I know you've been in the region itself, what is happening on the ground there tonight? Who is winning, if anyone, this
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: (Inaudible) simply diluted until whoever is winning or losing. At this stage, we do have the
Free Syrian Army rebel units that Turkey is backing and supporting through airstrikes, artillery mortar rounds, as well as with other assets on the
Trying to push forward fairly slowly they themselves will tell you because they say that they are quite concerned about civilian casualties. We were
on the ground inside Syria in an area that is effectively the outermost perimeter of the territory that is controlled by these Turkish-backed rebel
And on the hilltop, we could see some of what we were told were the YPG positions, sniper positions, they seemed to be deserted at that point in
time when we were there, but we were told that this is one of the areas where they are receiving some sporadic fire from.
And throughout the course of the day, you do of course hear the ongoing pounding sound of artillery and various other munitions that are being
used. Again, Turkey being very empathic when it says that it is trying to pay utmost attention to civilian casualties.
But there is also the reality of the terrain out there, the reality that whatever is being fired by either side could potentially land on the
civilian population. It is fairly spread out. The particular areas where the fighting is currently taking place very rule role a lot of olive
A lot of the sporadic sort of makeshift refugee settlements actually existed. These are populations that have already been displaced time and
time and time again now left wondering if they are going to have to flee and at this stage where is it that they are actually going to be able to
go. That is the question that so many families inside Syria face on a sadly very regular basis -- Hannah.
JONES: Arwa, thanks so much for your reporting. Stay safe and we appreciate talking to you this evening. Arwa Damon there on the Turkey-
Still to come on the program tonight, after his rock star entrance at Davos, what kind of welcome has President Trump really received? More on
that after a short break.
And a parent's worst nightmare, one of the victims of a school shooting in the U.S. called her mother at it's all playing out. A live report just
[15:30:40] JONES: Hello, welcome back. You're watching HALA GORANI TONIGHT with me Hannah Vaughan Jones live in London. We are learning
heartbreaking new details in the deadly school shooting in the U.S. State of Kentucky. The 15-year-old girl who was killed in that shooting called
her mother as the chaos unfold it. Bailey Holt's mother said she called her daughter's name into the phone, over and over again but Bailey couldn't
respond. Well, let's get to CNN Correspondent, Nick Valencia, he's live in Benson, Kentucky for us now. Nick, harrowing details, must have been
unbearable for the mother in question, of course, as well. Has this at all helped in the investigation into what actually happened?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, everyone here, Hannah, including some of the first responders have been affected. Some of
them had children at the school when the shooting took place on Tuesday morning. It's just been two days and the emotions here are still
understandably very raw. But somehow, the parents of one of those two 15- year-olds, who was gunned down here on Tuesday, they found the courage to speak about their child. Bailey Holt was just 15 years old when she was
gunned down. Her parents spoke to us, spoke to a local affiliate about the memory of her daughter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SECRET HOLT, MOTHER OF BAILEY HOLT: She loved everyone. She never had a harsh word to say about anything or anyone.
JASON HOLT, FATHER OF BAILEY HOLT: I took her to school and gave her a kiss and I told her I love and she got out of the car.
S. HOLT: She was just the best kid ever. I just want to pray for all the other victims, too.
J. HOLT: And their kids.
S. HOLT: Because I didn't tell him he was (INAUDIBLE) daily. (INAUDIBLE) something else, maybe a lifetime to get to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VALENCIA: The other 15-year-old victim in this is named Preston Cope and we talked to a close friend of his. Who said that he was very quiet, very
smart, in fact, helped her with a problem in class a couple years ago. And he loved baseball, he's a great athlete. Love the Saint Louis Cardinals.
A lot of people are going to miss him, as well as Bailey. Hannah?
JONES: Just unbelievable bravery from the parents as well, to be able to speak out at such a time. Nick, I'm wondering about the gunman's identity.
Do we have any more details on that?
VALENCIA: Well, because of his age, they haven't released his name. And it was just a short time ago, a couple of hours ago, in fact, that he made
his first court appearance in juvenile court probable cause of detention hearing. It was shortly after that, that we heard from the assisting
county prosecutor here in Marshall County, who says that he's going to seek to transfer this case to the Marshall Circuit Court. And he recommends
that this individual, this 15-year-old, face adult charges. Of course, that'll ultimately be left up to a Judge. And we know that the grand jury
on this case will convene on February 13th. Hannah?
JONES: And we know, of course, that after every one of these school shooting or mass shooting in the United States that the gun control law
will be then -- picks up pace again to try to get some kind of gun control in the U.S. passed through Congress. Is that happening now? I mean, is
there a movement now to seize on what's happened there in Kentucky to try and get some kind of change to the law?
VALENCIA: The short answer is no. And it's unfortunate, and this is something that the news crews here have talked a lot about. It's as though
America has become numb to these types of shootings. The senseless -- seemingly senseless acts of violence. You have Las Vegas, most recently,
and the casualty, no doubt affected this community. Two people were killed, 20 people have been all affected by this shooting. But,
unfortunately, here in the United States, another week in America, another mass shooting. Hannah?
JONES: Nick Valencia, thanks so much. Nick, we appreciate it, live for us there in Kentucky. All right, let's get back to our top story now.
President Trump visits to Davos in Switzerland. Remember, this is the man who based his Presidency on disdain the global elites. And he ran on a
promise to put "America First". Well, today at the World Economic Forum, the President came face to face with the very people who epitomize
globalization. He's stated mission: "To bring back business to American soil." Here's what he had to say, about his first day in Davos:
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been going really well. A lot of people are coming back to United States. We are seeing tremendous
investment and today has been a very exciting day, a very great day, and great for our country.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, let's get some more perspective on all the excitement. I'm joined now by Carl Bildt, Sweden's former Prime Minister and current co-
Chair of the think-tank the European Council on Foreign Relations. He's live for us in Davos.
[01:35:06] Mr. Bildt, thank you so much joining us. I imagined you're a seasoned Davos goer. But I'm wondering about the mood today when President
Donald Trump arrived there. Was it a bit like kind of a headline active of festival kind of swooping in and pushing everyone else off the main stage?
CARL BILDT, FORMER PRIME MINISTER OF SWEDEN: To some extent, yes, the President of the United States is the President of the United States,
whoever it is. I think there are a lot of people who are sort of waiting to see what he's going to say tomorrow. Whether he will just say that the
U.S. stock market is fabulous and I'm fabulous, or that we will get some more beef on what he wants to do, for example, on trade issues where there
is a lot of -- a lot of concern on where U.S. policies are heading.
JONES: He's known for wanting -- perhaps, needing to have his ego rubbed if you like. From your experience and the knowledge that you have of
fellow world leaders today who were there in Davos, will they play along with that? Are they trying to get close to Presidents Trump to understand
him, or are they kind of saying "You're not into globalization, so, therefore, we can't work with you?"
BILDT: Well, he's coming here, as a matter of fact, on the last day of Davos. And a lot of people would normally have left on Friday. He's met
Prime Minister Netanyahu from Israel. Prime Minister May from Great Britain and not very many others. So the number of meetings or the number
of people who have been expressed in interest to meeting him or succeeded with meeting him. As a matter of fact, been fairly limited. I think he's
concentrating himself on supposed to trade the Intel from meeting the business leaders to saying that he's doing great with the U.S. Economy.
JONES: But if it is a case of the rest of Davos is in for globalization and Donald Trump and the Trump Administration are very much focused on
"America First", an isolation. Who then steps into the floor? And actually sort of takes the reins and the lead when it comes to global
leadership. Is it now -- with your experience as Sweden's former Prime Minister, is it now a time for Europe to come together and say, "Well,
we'll lead the charge on globalization if America is going to be stepping aside".
BILDT: Well, among others, I would say, you've heard very strong words from -- we had President of France, Macron, with a very forceful speech on
those issues yesterday. But we had the Prime Minister of India, we have the President of Argentina. We have virtually the entire world, saying
that "It's only by working together, free trade and open global economy, that we can continue to lift people out of poverty and that we can affect
the growth prospects of our own economies as well. Be that the American economy, the Argentina economy, the Indian economy or Swedish economy. If
we start building barriers and walls against each other, we are all going to be the losers.
JONES: You mentioned just now, of course, that President Trump among the few, just the two bilateral discussions that he did have today, was one of
them with Theresa May of the United Kingdom. Let's just -- we're going to play a bit of a sound from President Trump because obviously, there has
been a huge question mark over the special relationship. And indeed, how special it is at the moment. This is what President Trump had to say
following that meeting with Theresa May.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The Prime Minister and myself, have had a really good relationship, although some people don't necessarily believe that, but I can tell you, I
have a tremendous respect for the Prime Minister and the job she's doing. I think the feeling is mutual from the standpoint of liking each other a
lot. And, though, there was a little bit of a false rumor out there, I just wanted to correct it, frankly. We had great respect for everything
you're doing. And we love your country. We think it's truly great.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, it was a false rumor and they like each other a lot. But given the fact that the U.S.-U.K relationship is definitely slightly strained
and, of course, the U.K. is going to be going to Brexit, leaving the European Union within the course of the next couple of years. Is it now
prudence of Europe, of Sweden, and the whole of Europe and the European Union to play a pivotal role in terms of getting its trade sorted with the
United States and then separately with the United Kingdom?
BILDT: Absolutely, we have an interest in having a good agreement with the United Kingdom as it leaves. That's going to be complicated, it's going to
take a couple of years. And what's been happening or is happening, as a matter of fact, is that you see the European Union are concluding trade
agreements all over the world. It would have been better if the United States have been with us. But we see the European Union which is anyhow,
the greatest trading entity -- the largest trading entity in the world. Including massive trade agreements: Canada, Japan, there's a new one, with
Microsphere, with South America. To form that point of view, yes, the European Union and its take in the leadership on the global trade issues.
[19:39:58] JONES: OK. Carl Bildt, it's wonderful to have you on the program. We appreciate you taking the time to talk to us there from a very
cold Davos. Thank you, sir. We turn to Lebanon now. A country with an idyllic location along the Mediterranean that should have tourists flocking
to its beaches. But instead, a problem that has been going on for a number of years is resurfacing along the seashore. Our Ben Wedemen explains.
BEN WEDEMEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There's a beach under all this trash on the banks of the River Kalb, North of Beirut, washed down
from the mountains by the latest winter rains. Workers struggle to carry it all away. The tires, plastic bottles, the odds and ends of consumerism
will end up in one of Lebanon bursting landfills only perhaps to wash to the sea and back on to the beaches again. Johnny recalls coming here is a
boy. "Our family brought food here on Sundays," he says. "And would drink water from the river, clean water." That idyllic scene from the distant
past hardly fits with today's rubbish true reality.
This is the 17th time in the last two and a half years that this beach has been cleaned up, 16 times by volunteers, this time by the municipality.
And it's shocking as these filthy beaches might be, they're not the problem, they're a symptom of the problem, and that problem, of course, is
that Lebanon doesn't know how to deal with its trash.
This small country is grappling with its garbage. There aren't enough landfills. And most communities aren't eager to host new ones. The on-
going garbage crisis has ignited the blame game among Lebanon's perpetually squabbling politicians. Environmental Engineer, Ziad Abi Chaker is more
interested in finding solutions than pointing fingers. Where others see trash, he sees opportunity.
OK. Is there something we could do with garbage like this?
ZIAD ABI CHAKER, ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEER: Of course. You see, this is -- this is called PETE plastic. This is one of the most expensive plastics
you have and this is entirely recyclable, infinitely recyclable. So now, all you have to do is make sure you sold these out. Instead of them
washing off the shore here. And then, you can sell it back to what we call a conversion plan. They shred it and they even make fiber. Your jacket is
made of this. My jacket is made of this, it's polyester.
WEDEMEN: For now, all they can do is remove the rubbish. Remove it once more when it washes up again. Ben Wedemen, CNN, North of Beirut.
JONES: Still to come on the program tonight, as the fallout from the Larry Nassar's scandal reverberates, we asked what can be done to stop it
happening ever again. I'll speak to an author who wrote about a damning book about gymnastics more than 20 years ago. Stay with us. We'll be
[15:45:13] JONES: We have heard harrowing testimony as a massive sentence handed down to former USA Gymnastics Doctor Larry Nassar. Now, the
fallouts, the President of Michigan State University where Nassar was a longtime employee is resigning.
Lou Ann Simon had recently come under fire for what critics say is the mishandling of the scandal. Among Nassar's victims is Olympic Gold
Medalist, Aly Raisman. On "NBC" this morning, she calls for a broader look at organizations that employed Nassar or have any dealings with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALY RAISMAN, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST AND VICTIM OF LARRY NASSAR: We need to hold these organizations accountable, USA Gymnastics, United States Olympic
Committee, MSU, they need an independent investigation.
This is bigger than Larry Nassar, we have to get to the bottom of how this disaster happened. If we don't figure out how it did, we can't be
confident that it won't happen again. I didn't know that -- most of these girls and these women but I just felt an instant connection, we were
hugging each other, we just -- we really are an army of survivors and this is just the beginning for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: One U.S. Senator, Kristen Gillibrand said the trial should be, "Be the start of a bigger investigation by Congress." For my next guest wrote
a book more than 20 years ago detailing the culture of abuse in elite gymnastics.
Joan Ryan is the author of "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes: The Making and Breaking of Elite Gymnast and Figure Skaters." I'm delighted to say Joan
joins me now from Marin County, California. Welcome to the program, thank you.
The big question now after that week of harrowing testimony that we heard from so many young girls, I guess the big question is, is this a sort of
predatory sexual abuse that is specific to gymnastics or is it systemic across USA sports? Your thoughts on that?
JOAN RYAN, AUTHOR, "LITTLE GIRLS IN PRETTY BOXES": I don't think it's systemic across USA sports. I think the thing that we really need to keep
in mind with this is that unlike just about every other sport in the Olympics and beyond, elite women's gymnastics is really a misnomer.
It's mostly girls, we see more women as they get into the Olympics, can be 18 and older. But as they're training, all those critical years where a
lot of the abuse happened, they're children and that's the difference USAG as Aly Raisman said really needs to be held accountable. The USSC needs to
be held accountable because they have a different charge with female gymnastics than they do with any other sport they deal with. And that's
why I call --
JONES: So are you saying -- are you then that the girls involved in gymnastics that they are more vulnerable perhaps because they train from a
younger age, they are going to a rigorous physical regime, they're seemingly kind of coming to puberty quite late perhaps because of some of
the rigorous training that they are undergoing and therefore any doctor or any professional who comes into contact with them is potentially putting
them at risk simply because we're talking about teenage girls and younger at times.
RYAN: Exactly. They're so vulnerable for several reasons Hannah. One, as you said, their age alone. The other thing is from the very start
especially with the elite coaches and as they get into elite competition, they are (INAUDIBLE) basically to deny their own reality.
And by that I mean you have coaches and (INAUDIBLE) is the poster boy for all of this frankly, is that a girl is hurt, her knee is hurting, whatever
it is. "You're not hurt, go back on the balance beam, you're weak, you're a loser, you're lazy." You're -- the girl complains like, "I am starving,
I'm hungry." "No, you're not hungry, you're weak, you're a loser, you're lazy."
So, in order to be in that world and that abnormal culture, these girls have to deny their own experience, their own instinct, and they get so
accustomed to doing that so now this doctor is doing this weird, horrible things to them and they're being told, "Oh no, that's just medical
treatment, don't trust your experience."
JONES: That's just normal. Yes, that's just normal and keep quiet about it which is the testimony we heard from so many girls. What happened in
the immediate aftermath of the sentencing is that the MSU president has now stepped down, some are saying that she's been made a scapegoat.
I just want to play one clip from one victim of Larry Nassar who spoke to CNN earlier on today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STERLING RIETHMAN, FORMER INTERCOLLEGIATE DRIVER: We've been asking for a lot of accountability, a lot of change across several institutions in a
very high levels. And seeing her resignation, I'm grateful for her acknowledgment of what we've been through and I'm hopeful that this is the
first step towards lots of positive changes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[15:50:23] JONES: Joan, do you agree with that? Do you think that we're now going to see much more changes and more heads are going to roll because
of what's come out of this Larry Nassar investigation?
RYAN: I do. I mean, one of the frustrations that did turn to fury when this happened was -- my book came out 23 years ago, 23 years, so at least
there's a pin in the timeline that says, "USA Gymnastic, MSU," or anyone else that was dealing with female gymnasts, they knew at least since then
the abuse that goes on that is rampant in elite women's gymnastics.
So now we are 23 years later and now I do think some change can happen because the gymnast themselves and the biggest names, the most successful
gymnast that we've ever had in this country are leading the charge and I hear it in their voices, they will be relentless. And so my faith in
change is my faith in them.
JONES: OK. Well, yes. Who knew what, when, and will that information now come to light. We very much hope so and we thank you for speaking to us on
CNN this evening. Joan Ryan, thank you.
Still to come on the program, a pair of cloned monkeys could hold the key to treating some of man's feared diseases, the latest on the scientific
breakthrough when we come back.
[15:55:17] JONES: And now, a story that sounds like something out of a Sci-Fi film, Chinese scientists have cloned two monkeys using a complex
technique that could, could be used on humans. But they promised they have no plans to do that just yet.
The full story now from CNN's Maggie Lake.
MAGGIE LAKE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A major scientific breakthrough out of China. Chinese researchers have announced
that they successfully clones the world's first two monkeys using a process called, "Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer" the same process that was used to
clone "Dolly" the sheep in 1996.
Scientists replaced the nucleus of an unfertilized egg with the nucleus from another cell. Once the egg develops into an embryo, is it then
planted into a surrogate mother. In the past, this technique worked on 20 different animals like frogs, mice, rabbits, and pigs but was unsuccessful
on primates. The two genetically identical macaques named Zhong Zhong and Hua Hua were produced at a research facility late last year.
Because humans are in the primate family, the breakthrough is significant. Researchers believe it could help better understand human diseases like
Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The cloning of such nonhuman primates will offer a good animal model for the study of human diseases and
health. It's a scientific research of pioneering significance made by Chinese scientists.
LAKE: Chinese say T.V. reports that a third cloned monkey is due this month and more will be produced later this year. Researcher say this
process of cloning could be applied to humans but there are no plans to do so. Maggie Lake, CNN.
JONES: What better way to end the program. Thanks so much for watching tonight. I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones. Stay with us here at CNN QUEST MEANS
BUSINESS live from Davos is up next.