Return to Transcripts main page
Hala Gorani Tonight
Top Dems Warn Trump Using Memo To Fire Rosenstein Or Mueller Would Spark Constitutional Crisis; GOP Memo Blames Steele Dossier For Surveillance Intelligence Community Disputes This Central Claim; Memo Released After Trump Defies FBI, Justice Department; Stock Market Sees Worst Week In Two Years; Four Shot, 18 Injured In Calais Migrants Brawl; Memo Released after Trump Defies FBI Justice Dept.; Disputed GOP/Nunes Memo is Released; Filipina Maid Trapped as Slave in Jordan. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired February 02, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:27]
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: The controversial memo is out and the fallout has been fast and furious. Hello. I'm Hannah Vaughan
Jones in for Hala Gorani live from London.
Let's get right to our breaking news in Washington. Top Democrats now warning Donald Trump that if he tries to use the disputed memo as a pretext
to fire key figures in the Russia investigation, it would be viewed as an attempt to obstruct justice and it could trigger the worst constitutional
crisis in decades.
Mr. Trump authorized the memo's release over the objections of his FBI director before leaving for an event on border security. The Republican
document alleges FBI surveillance abuses and agency bias against the president.
Listen to Mr. Trump at the end of his remarks to reporters when asked if he still has confidence in the official overseeing the Russia investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: A lot of people should be ashamed. Thank you very much. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
PRESIDENT TRUMP: You figure that one out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: You figure that one out. In a few minutes, we will take you live to the White House for more reaction from the administration. But first,
let's look at what the highly controversial memo, spearheaded by Republican Devin Nunes, actually says.
It alleges a surveillance warrant to monitor former Trump campaign aide was based heavily on the dossier compiled by former British spy, Christopher
Steele. That dossier was put together on behalf of the Democratic National Committee and Hillary Clinton campaign.
And the memo says Christopher Steele told a Justice Department official that he was, quote, "desperate that Donald Trump not get elected." Now
that is one side of the story. We don't actually know fully the other because Republicans block a Democratic rebuttal to the memo.
Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee, though, did release a statement today saying in part, "The Republican document mischaracterizes
highly sensitive classified information that few members of Congress have seen and which Chairman Nunes himself chose not to review. The sole
purpose of the Republican document is to circle the wagons around the White House and insulate the president."
And Democratic House Leader Nancy Pelosi said this just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPRESENTATIVE NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), MINORITY LEADER: This the memo that the president approved the release of he has abdicated his responsibilities
as commander in chief to protect the American people by protecting our intelligence sources and the rest. It's appalling. It's a
misrepresentation. It isn't even the release of intelligence material. It's a release of a distortion of it. What is its purpose? Its purpose
is, of course, to thwart the investigation, the Mueller investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: The memo treats the dossier as a false totally discredited document, but we know that at least some parts of it have been
corroborated. We also know that the researcher's initial funding came from Republican opponents of then-Candidate Donald Trump. Very confusing.
Let's bring in CNN White House reporter, Stephen Collinson. We're also joined by CNN crime and justice reporter, Shimon Prokupecz, and Tim Weiner,
author of "Enemies, A History of the FBI." Welcome to you all.
Shimon, I hope I can start with you. The memo effectively alleges that there is some inherent FBI bias against President Trump. What is actually
in this memo that we didn't know before that lends some credence to that argument?
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, I mean, if you read the memo and you believe it and it's all one-sided, it's really about
the Steele dossier and also individuals who were part of the FBI, who are no longer with the FBI like the Deputy Director Andrew McCabe who's been
publicly attacked by the president several times.
In it, he says he approved some of these FISAs. They go through some instances where they talk about the Steele dossier being paid by Democratic
operatives. That is probably one of the bigger things to show that this was politically motivated.
They also go to show that a lot of the information that the FBI relied on to get warrants, these very secretive surveillance warrants on the former
campaign advisor, Carter Page, they basically argue that it all came from the dossier.
[15:05:04] But later on in the memo, they say that the Russia investigation itself was started by the former campaign advisor, George Papadopoulos
after some information they received from him.
So, while it says one thing, it seems to sort of lose some credibility this memo as it goes along because you know, their initial argument is the
dossier is what started this investigation. But then they say it was George Papadopoulos, who started this investigation. So, that's some of
what seems to be different in this document.
JONES: So many players in this whole saga. First of all, I just want to read the response from the FBI Agents Association, which has of course now
responded to the fact that it's been accused of this political bias.
This is what the FBI have said, "The men and women of the FBI put their lives on the lines every day in the fight against terrorists and criminals
because of their dedication to our country and the Constitution.
The American people should know that they continue to be well served by the world's preeminent law enforcement agency. FBI special agents have not and
will not allow partisan politics to distract us from our solemn commitment to our mission."
Tim Weiner, I'm interested in whether the FBI has ever been accused of this sort of political bias in the past and in any case when the FBI has been
taken on, has the person who's accusing them of something actually won?
TIM WEINER, AUTHOR, "ENEMIES: THE HISTORY OF THE FBI": No president has attacked the FBI and the Justice Department in this way. On the one hand,
you have the FBI and the Justice Department trying to protect and defend the Constitution and the rule of law.
And the president is attacking them directly and personally. He may use this memo, false and scurrilous as it is, as a weapon to try and decapitate
the leadership of the FBI and Justice Department as a way of getting to Bob Mueller.
If so, A, he will have obstructed justice once again, and B, he will have created a constitutional crisis the likes we haven't seen since the darkest
days of Watergate.
JONES: Well, OK, Stephen Collinson, let's bring you on to this then. President Trump we know from earlier on in the week overheard after his
state of the union address, he's been eager to get this memo out there. Now that we've seen it, the world has seen it, was it worth it? Was there
actually any smoking gun in there?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: I don't think so. I think if you take an objective view of this memo, it's difficult to back up some of
the claims the Republicans were making before it was released. The idea that it was representing the greatest intelligence scandal in American
history, that this was worse than the Watergate scandal.
You know, that seems to be overplaying what's in the memo. The question I think now, as Tim is saying, is what does the president use the memo to do?
He has been increasing pressure on the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, who as you said earlier, is overseeing the Mueller probe.
Now, I think in the days to come we'll be watching very closely if there are more efforts to use this memo to undermine Mr. Rosenstein and
therefore, as Tim said, get to Robert Mueller and try to close this investigation down.
We're also looking for the release of the Democratic rebuttal to this. There's expected to be a vote in the House next week. Then that will go to
the president and he'll have five days to say whether he objects to the release of that and see how this all plays out politically.
JONES: And Shimon, the Republicans on the committee at least are saying that transparency is key here. That's why they wanted this memo to be
released, but how reliable is it? We've heard from the Democrats that this memo has been compiled without seeing a lot of the intelligence that it's
based on.
PROKUPECZ: Right. It's Democrats and not only them but the FBI in that rare public statement that they issued a couple of days ago where they went
after the memo, where they said that the word omissions here, that we would not get a complete picture of the intelligence that was used.
I mean, for instance, in the memo they talk about how the FBI relied exclusively, almost extensively perhaps eve on the Steele dossier. Based
on our own reporting from sources who have been involved in this investigation, we know that that's just not true, that there were other
factors that went into this application for the FISA warrant.
So, clearly not only are the Democrats but also the FBI, which has seen all of this. This is their investigation, which have seen all the intelligence
that was used to build out this FISA application.
And the other thing to keep in mind is that the FBI can no longer respond to anything here. Everything that has to do with the FISA applications,
which are done in secret courts here in the United States, it's all extremely classified and secret.
[15:10:12] The fact that we even know of this now, that we have Congress admitting that the FBI did this, this is unprecedented. It has never been
done before. It leaves the FBI in a place where they can't really respond.
It also leaving the Democrats in a place where they can't really respond because the information they have is also classified. So, really, all we
have right now is this one-sided three-and-a-half-page document without all the facts that went into the FBI's work here.
JONES: OK, without all of the facts, but in defense of the administration on this front, Donald Trump came into office saying that he wanted to drain
the swamp. And if there are bad apples in any institution, then arguably those people should be taken out of the fray.
So, Tim Weiner, is it possible that there are people who have performed bad practice at the higher echelons of the FBI and therefore, Donald Trump is
doing a great service to the country in getting rid of them?
WEINER: Not in this instance. The Justice Department warned Trump that releasing this memo would be extremely reckless. The president in his
recklessness decided to let it go anyway. What we have now is a president at war with the FBI and the leadership of the Justice Department. If he
decides to decapitate them, we will then be one tweet away from a constitutional crisis.
JONES: Right. Stephen, final word to you on this. How quickly could this all unravel? It's Friday now. Could we see by tomorrow another Saturday
night massacre?
COLLINSON: I guess it's possible. The president after he has an event in a few moments, then he's heading down to Mar-a-Lago, his resort in Florida.
Everyone is going to be watching very closely his tweets tomorrow morning to see exactly how he's going to push this forward.
I think we've definitely not heard the last of this report and we still don't know how the FBI and the other instruments of the U.S. government are
going to respond to this. So, this story is going to play out over the next few days.
JONES: OK, well, my thanks to all of you. Stephen Collinson, Tim Weiner, and also Shimon Prokupecz, thank you for covering the story for us and
we'll no doubt speak to you lots more over the coming days. Thank you.
Let's take you straight to the White House. Dan Merica is standing by for us there. Dan, the White House has said that it wants to cooperate now
with the investigations going forward. But I'm wondering whether this could all backfire somehow on Trump and what's happening in the building
behind you now to try and manage what happens next.
DAN MERICA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: There's a feeling inside the White House that there might not be as much as was promised in this memo.
There's been reports of that and we've seen some of that in the last few hours after the memo has been released.
There are some in the building who certainly are reading through the memo and are trying to communicate about it, but the sense from the White House
is they're trying to create a little bit of distance from this memo. It came out not really from the White House.
They certainly confirmed it, but it came from Capitol Hill and needed President Trump' stamp of approval and he gave that. But there has not
been a really full some response here from the White House. They have commented on it but not at length.
Additionally, President Trump was asked about this process in the oval office during a meeting he had while reporters were in the room, and he did
what you would expect him to do. He slammed the Department of Justice, slammed the FBI, said the people involved should be ashamed of themselves.
But it was one comment that really caught my eye and it's what he's going to have to answer for in the coming days. It's do you still trust Deputy
Attorney General Rod Rosenstein. He's obviously a central player in this Nunes memo and the response he gave is you figure that one out, telling
reporters it's up to you guys to figure that one out.
Now, there are additional memos the Democrats would like to see released, especially one from the Democratic side of that House Intel Committee. In
a statement from the White House, Sarah Sanders, the White House press secretary, actually said that the White House would be open to possibly
releasing that memo.
Here's what she said, "Minority members of the committee have reportedly drafted a separate memorandum. The administration stands ready to work
with Congress to accommodate oversight request consistent with applicable standards including the need to protect intelligence sources and methods."
The real name of the game here is transparency at the White House. They're going to stand behind transparency as the reason for this memo's release.
A number of White House officials have already done that.
It remains to be seen how President Trump will respond. He's going down to Mar-a-Lago this weekend. That's a place he feels very much at home and is
very frequently on Twitter.
How does he respond to this memo getting out? How does he respond to the news coverage of the memo will really color this whole debate for the days
to come -- Hannah.
[15:15:09] JONES: Dan, we've got some pictures of the president, President Trump is in the Virginia. He's going to be meeting with Customs and Border
Patrol officials right now. Dan, you mentioned earlier, though, about Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general. Can you just explain the
significance of Rod Rosenstein and if he is removed, what does that mean for the Russia probe going forward?
MERICA: So, he is the person at the Department of Justice that oversees that probe because Attorney General Jeff Sessions, a very close associate
of President Trump, a former senator who President Trump appointed to that role, he stepped away from overseeing that Russia investigation because of
his role during the Trump campaign, then that responsibility fell to Rod Rosenstein.
He's a long-time law enforcement official. He's been at the Department of Justice for a number of years. But he's also drawn the ire of not only
President Trump but many House Republicans and conservatives here.
If he were to be removed, it would be a huge moment not only in this presidency but in the Russia investigation. Many people see him as the
person standing between President Trump possibly firing Robert Mueller. President Trump has said he doesn't want to do that, even though we have
reports and we reported that he ordered that action last year.
But Rosenstein's firing would be a huge moment because it would be seen not only as a historic moment here in Washington, but a clear attempt by the
president to take action on this Russia probe that has hung over the White House for almost a year now.
JONES: Dan Merica, always great to talk you. Appreciate it. Thank you.
All right. Still to come on the program tonight, the law of gravity seems to hit Wall Street. What goes up must indeed come down. We'll check the
numbers and get some perspective for you.
Also, violence erupts in Calais adding to the already tense situation the French port city. We are live there for all the details. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back. More jittery nerves on Wall Street after a roller coaster week. The Dow plunged again despite a strong jobs report in the
U.S. Investors are worried about inflation and the bond market. Let's see where things stand right now.
You can see they're down 550 points as things stand right now, more than 2 percent down. Well, analysts have been warning that the market could
indeed overheat after months of record gains.
Let's go live then to the New York Stock Exchange for an update. Claire Sebastian standing by live for us there. Claire, as far as I understand,
it's been the worst day for the stock market since Trump assumed the presidency. What's brought it all about?
CLAIRE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Hannah, it's been the worst day in terms of points and percentage. We're down now 563. At the worst, it
was down 642. So, we're pretty much off the session lows, but these are still brutal losses, the likes of which we haven't seen for many months.
[15:20:13] We've seen steady growth very (inaudible), but there are a couple of things contributes to this now. Among them, the conundrum is
what's good for the economy is not always good for the stock market. The jobs market today was at record levels. It was 200,000 jobs added.
And that is fueling fears that Federal Reserve might seek to raise interest rates faster than they had initially planned and that is leading to
concerns about inflation. Rising wages could hit corporate earnings which have been so strong off the back of that Trump tax cut.
But the bottom line is, Hannah, as one trader told me in the elevator as I was coming down here, this has been bull market for a long time. I think
many here feel that a little bit of pullback is a healthy thing and might well be needed.
JONES: Could what's going on in Washington at the moment, the political series of events in the U.S. capital be having a direct impact on what's
going on in the markets?
SEBASTIAN: I think there might be a few jitters around that. Certainly, one trader on the floor just now told me that the memo being released
today, that certainly could have sent shares down a little bit. We're seeing a lot of shares changing hands this afternoon.
So far, 595 million shares being traded right now. That is very high by everyday standards, let alone a Friday afternoon. Certainly, this market
is fairly resilient when it comes to all the shift and the shocks coming out of Washington. But I think there's a sense that given that this day is
already quite volatile, that it might have contributed a little bit -- Hannah.
JONES: All right. Claire Sebastian, thank you.
We turn our attention now to the French port city of Calais. I want to show you some violent video of a mass brawl between migrants there.
(VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Clashes between Afghan and Eritrean migrants erupted involving guns, sticks and iron bars. Four people were shot, 18 were injured. It is
adding to the already tense situation there in Calais.
I want to remind why, well, Calais is home to the French entrance of the Channel Tunnel. Migrants flock there, many of them in the hopes of getting
to the United Kingdom.
Let's get out to Calais now then. CNN's Melissa Bell is live for us there. Melissa, the French interior minister earlier described it as unbearable
violence in the city of Calais. What's prompted it?
MELISSA BELL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what we're hearing from the NGOs who work on the ground here, Hannah, is that that deal that
was struck between the British and the French you'll remember on the 18th of January between Theresa May and Emmanuel Macron to help speed up the
asylum process.
So, that minors who could genuinely claim asylum in the U.K. had a faster system allowing them to get to the U.K. more quickly than they'd been able
to before. But other asylum seekers as well would see the time for the processing of their applications to come down.
Now what the NGOs are telling us is that this has led to a sort of rumor among migrant communities, who've heard that if they get up here to Calais
now, it will be easier and quicker to get to the U.K., sort of a false rumor spread as a result of that.
Greater numbers of migrants here (inaudible) about 800 now well down, Hannah, from the many thousands that were here in the jungle just down the
road until October 2016 when that camp was dismantled, but still 800.
So, a growth in those numbers over the course of the last couple of weeks and with those tensions, growing tensions between the communities of
Eritreans, Afghans, who control the smugglers that try and help people to get across.
And it is believed here by the police, by authorities and by the NGOs that it was a turf battle between Afghan and Eritrean communities that kicked
off the violence that we saw here just yesterday.
JONES: What is the French president, Emmanuel Macron saying about this? And how on earth do you even provide the funds to police this sort of
illegal immigrants' action?
BELL: That is exactly the question, Hannah, because this is the result of precisely Emmanuel Macron's efforts to crack down on the sort of migrant
roots that have been existing here in France for several years now to try and speed up the process for economic migrants.
Those who are not going to be given asylum here to be sent back to their countries and allow genuine asylum seekers to get the asylum they deserve
in Europe whether it's in the U.K. or in France or in other European countries more efficiently than they have in the past.
But the point is that that very policy of cracking down has led to the violence we saw. It's very difficult to see how authorities are going to
be able to get rid of it once and for all.
What we are seeing tonight, much calmer here in Calais today than it was yesterday, but that's the result of a huge Palestinian police presence.
We've seen lots of patrols going by.
There are police vans all around the town. Clearly, that is not a policy that is sustainable in the long term given its cause, and yet the police
presence is the only thing really keeping the situation calm for the time being.
[15:25:09] So, in a way the very attempt to get to the bottom of this situation to bring it to an end is what's made it worse over the last 24
hours -- Hannah.
JONES: Melissa, we appreciate your updating us on the story. Melissa Bell live for us there in a very cold-looking Calais. Thank you.
Now staying with the story of migrants and I don't have to remind you that some migrants and refugees don't even make it to Europe and the journey can
often prove fatal. There has been another tragedy on the Mediterranean.
The International Organization for Migration says 90, yes 90, people are feared dead after their boat sank off the coast of Libya. Ten bodies have
washed off on Libyan shores. Two Libyans and eight Pakistani nationals among them. The agency says there are just three known survivors.
Now, a judge in the U.S. state of Michigan says there's no way she would punish a father of three of Larry Nassar's victims for this incident.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RANDALL MARGRAVES, FATHER OF NASSAR VICTIMS: As part of the sentencing to grant me 5 minutes in a locked room with this demon. Would you do that?
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: That is not how our --
MARGRAVES: Yes or no?
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: No, sir, I can't.
MARGRAVES: Could you give me 1 minute?
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You know that I can't do that. That's not how our legal system --
MARGRAVES: Well, I'm going to have to --
UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Mr. Morgan --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Bailiffs tackled Randall Margraves before he could get his hands on Nassar. The disgraced USA Gymnastics doctor is facing his third sentencing
in court. He already faces what amounts to several life sentences for abusing hundreds of women and girl in court.
Now, another show of defiance in Iran against the country's mandatory head scarf law. Police arrested 29 people at a protest in the capital Tehran.
Women across the country have been taking offer their hijabs and posting pictures on social media.
Iranian women have been required to wear the hijabs since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Enforcement has been eased recently but the women in question
who have done it this time could face prison time.
Still to come, we return to our top story and the swift fallout in Washington as a controversial Republican memo is released. We will have
much more on this after this short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:30:00] HANNAH VAUGHN JONES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Welcome back to the program with me, Hannah Vaughn Jones in London. Let's get you straight
back to our top story and explosive day unfolding in Washington.
As you have been hearing in the last few hours, the controversial and highly politicized republican memo alleging surveillance abuse by the FBI
has now been released to the public. It is causing a firestorm of reaction in Washington. But what does the memo mean and for the White House, the
FBI and U.S. Intelligence Agencies long-term?
Let's dig into this more and I'm joined by Michael Zeldin, Michael is a CNN Legal Analyst and Robert Mueller's former Special Assistant at the
Department of Justice, I'm also joined by Larry Sabato, Larry is the Director of the Center for Politics at the University of Virginia, he's in
Charlottesville, Virginia. Gentlemen, welcome to you both.
Larry Sabato, to you first, Jim Comey, James Comey the former FBI Director has been tweeting quite a lot since this memo was first revealed and
certainly released. This is the latest that we've heard from him he said, "That's it, dishonest, and misleading memo." I'm wondering where do you
think that the need for transparency at which the White House has been going on about for the last 24 hours or so whether that need -- override
any need for responsibility in disseminating information to the public which is not based on full access to evidence.
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR OF THE CENTER FOR POLITICS, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Not leaves -- not based on full access but they haven't released the
democratic counterpart which is prepared -- which is pending. So you're only getting one side of a small slice of this.
This doesn't have anything to do with the Russians hacking into the Democratic National Committee or the Russians and their agents trying to
infiltrate the American election system in 2016. This is purely partisan, it is designed to give republicans and answer, to give them ammunition when
they're attacked on Russia gate by whatever these -- the current investigations reveal.
JONES: Michael Zeldin, as far as the memo itself is considered, it's quite scanned, it's just four pages long, the main bulk of the memo seems to
suggest that this surveillance was granted by the FISA Court on the basis - - on pretty much the sole basis of this dossier, this Chris Steele dossier. From your experience, would that sound normal to you that these sort of
surveillance warrants would be issued based on one sole piece of intelligence?
MICHAEL ZELDIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No. And in fact, FISA Law that governs the process that we're talking about here would prohibit this. So if we
take a step back and you look at this, a FISA warrant is a warrant that allows the National Intelligence Agencies to listen in on communications.
It's directed principally at foreign nationals but if incidental to that collection of information, an American is heard talking about it, if
there's probably cause to believe that that American maybe up to something that's not in the national interest, then you can apply to the court for a
warrant listening on that person's communications. So it's about the highest standard of probable cause that you need in order to listen in.
And so in this case, you have information that came from Christopher Steele in the form of the dossier which is really just a collection of memos which
was really raw intelligence. It wasn't -- didn't reach conclusions, it's readable, it's all published on buzz piece, everyone can read what exactly
Steele said and that information in its raw intelligence form then has to be verified and collaborated by the FBI and once they have a verifiable and
collaborative package and these things tend to be about 60, 70 pages long, it goes up the chain in the justice -- in the FBI and then over to the
Justice Department for review, and then sent over to specially designated judges who are appointed by the Supreme Court, by the Chief Justice of the
Supreme Court to hear this.
And so to believe the allegation in the Nunes memo you essentially have to believe that the Justice Department and the FBI in coordination with a
judge appointed by the Supreme Court Justice of the United States all conspired somehow to violate the rights of Carter Page on October 16th.
The other thing that's important to know is that this warrant, the affidavit in support of the warrant was renewed four times before four
different judges and each time an affidavit is reviewed for renewed, it has to have new and additional evidence to get renewed. You can't rely on the
initial evidence. And so you -- and then it was signed off on by three different deputies, Attorney General in the United States.
And so all of this, you don't need a democratic response to this, in it of itself, the process that had to go underway in order to get approved
undermines the notion that the Steele dossier somehow was the linchpin of this and the failure to notify the court that it may have been paid for in
part makes the whole thing a poisonous act is just not availing from a legal standpoint.
JONES: Not availing from a legal standpoint but Larry, I mean, conspiracy theories arrive throughout American politics at the moment.
[15:40:14] Is it an argument to say that the GOP, the republicans are respectively pedaling in conspiracy theories in order to firm up the
president's base somehow or reaffirm this belief that somehow there's a deep state working to try and oust the president from the Oval Office?
SABATO: I think that's part of the explanation and if you want me to get to the heart of it, what Trump has certainly thought about, he's old enough
to remember how President Nixon fell. President Nixon didn't fall because democrats were united against him, which they were and which was expected.
President Nixon fell because republicans started flaking off, republicans lost confidence in him. Trump knows that as long as he maintain support
among republicans in Congress and his base, he cannot be removed.
JONES: Michael, from a legal perspective, I'm curious about what mean -- what this will mean as memo means for the previous administration? Largely
because if it does show that there were abuses to the foreign surveillance laws under President Obama, what does that mean for the Attorney General at
the time who might have like approved all of these for Obama a well. I mean, are any of these people able to face some sort of legal proceedings
now?
ZELDIN: Well, if it were provable that the three different deputy Attorney Generals who signed off on these warrants, Sally Yates, Dana Boente, and
Rod Rosenstein, all whom have probably among them a hundred years' worth of law enforcement willfully misrepresented facts to the FISA Court, then they
committed felony.
And so if you think -- if one thinks that these people who have spent their entire lives in law enforcement are going to somehow lie to the court on
October 16th, just a few weeks before the election to damage Trump by getting a FISA warrant on Carter Page is silly. The other thing that one
has to always remember about Carter Page was he was warned by the FBI in 2013 that he was being watched, that he thought that they thought they
thought -- that the FBI thought that he was a right target for -- compromised by the Russians and they told him be careful here.
And so this is not a verging territory with this guy. He was warned and he continued his same behavior into 2016 which gave rise to the warrant?
JONES: Larry, we've talked a lot over the course of the last week about the Watergate and the parallels that they might be with the current
situation now in Washington. How do you see this unraveling? What do you see happening next? If we go on the basis that history does repeat itself?
SABATO: It's critical to find out what Mueller knows and what his report eventually says. That assumes that there's no attempt or successful
attempt to interrupt his investigation and I think everyone at the back of their mind worries a little bit about that. But we have to get that
report.
There's one giant difference, back in Nixon's day, both Houses of Congress were controlled by democrats by a wide margin. As we know now it's the
opposite. That will change in November, that is as an element yet to be seen. But Trump isn't in nearly as much trouble as Nixon was. Having said
that, it's pretty obvious that there are some things there he doesn't want revealed. There's no way they would go to this much trouble this early if
he was as innocent as he claims to be.
JONES: Interesting. Well Michael, with that in mind then, specifically thinking about Robert Mueller, the Special Prosecutor and what he might do
next, is there a chance that he might somehow speed up his investigation, release some information now if he feels that somehow his whole inquiry
could be -- he could have the rug pulled out from underneath him?
ZELDIN: No. I think that Bob Mueller proceeds at the pace that make sense to Bob Mueller. Bob Mueller knows that if he gets fired that it will be
turned over to another prosecutor who will follow in his footsteps.
It's not as if Mueller were fired and the whole thing comes to an end. We saw in white water -- in Watergate rather, they fired Archibald Cox in the
famous Saturday Night Massacre and what did we end up with? Leon Jaworski, another very capable prosecutor and part of the firing of Cox was part of
the allegations about abuse of office against Richard Nixon.
In this case is also sort of interesting in a parallel sense which is that the president of the United States has said it has been reported to his
friends on the phone that he was going to release the Nunes memo because he thought it would damage the Mueller investigation. Well that in some sense
from a legal standpoint is an admission that his efforts here are to interfere with the Mueller investigation which is essentially an admission
of obstruction of justice.
[15:40:18]
So, it's very hard to understand that the thought process behind this by the president and by his legal time. It's just -- it's -- you're left sort
of speechless when you try to dissect what it is that undermines -- that underlies the theory behind releasing this memo and making statements like
the president is alleged with --
JONES: You're going to have to find your speech at some point because this is going to go long for some time to come and your analysis. Both of you,
Larry Sabato, Michael Zeldin will be required. Thank you gentlemen.
SABATO: Okey-dokey.
ZELDIN: Thank you for having us.
JONES: We turn our attention to the CNN freedom project now. We showed you on Thursday how one woman is fighting to protect tens of thousands of
migrant workers from abuse in Jordan. Tonight, we'll see how one of those workers was tricked into leaving the Philippines and turned into a slave.
CNN (INAUDIBLE) has her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Isa Al- Maeda is learning about her rights, rights taken away from her for nine long years. The 36-year-old now says she knows she was a slave. Al-Maeda
left the life of poverty and farming in the Philippines she says for the promise of a $500 a month salary as a domestic worker in Jordan.
Al-Maeda says she was trapped in hell of a foreign country she didn't know, working 17 hours a day in a remote town near the Syrian border. She knew
that her rights were taken from her but she was afraid of going outside, afraid no one will help her and that her life would be in danger, she tells
us.
Al-Maeda says she got $500 the first month, $300 each of the following two but then the money stopped. Her employer who kept her passport promised to
pay her she says but never did. Her work and residency permits were not renewed so she became illegal facing thousands of dollars in fines that
accumulated over the years.
In 2015 after establishing contact with her sister who travels from Dubai to Jordan, Al-Maeda escaped and made it to Oman where she says she worked
illegally trying to make up for the past nine years. She tells us what she's been through haunts her even in her sleep. Wanting to send money to
her family but having nothing.
We met Al-Maeda at the offices of Tamkeen, Jordan's only NGO specialized in providing legal aid for migrant workers. Tamkeen's Founder, Linda Alkalash
says the road to address is a long one.
LINDA ALKALASH, FOUNDER, TAMKEEN: Many things that they don't know about the rights and some of them may know but they're afraid to ask. Some case
that they stay in Jordan for long time without wages, without connection with their families.
KARADSHEH: Not everyone is a silent victim. Hana is described as a community leader. When the single mother is not working to support her
three children back home, she tries to educate others about their rights.
HANA, DOMESTIC WORKER: Our agencies in Philippines just tell us, "You are going there to be a house maid and that's it. You have to work, you have
to learn how to clean and that's it." They never tell us, "You have to rest, you have to eat good, you have to have your salary."
KARADSHEH: There are more than 50,000 migrant domestic workers operating legally in Jordan, another estimated 20,000 are working without proper
documentation. Most are expected to do all the housework and childcare, some work for as little as $200 a month.
According to 2016 report by Tamkeen, more than 38 percent of domestic workers interviewed did not receive their salaries on time. it also found
that many are deceived by employers who promised to pay them at the end of a contracted period but never do. The Jordanian government acknowledges
the problem but it says it's not widespread, it's individual cases. It also says its working to prevent the mistreatment of domestic workers from
turning into a phenomenon of human trafficking.
In recent years, laws have been passed to protect the rights of migrant domestic workers. While not easy to enforce, these laws raised the minimum
wage, limit working hours, and employers face fines for withholding travel documents. But not all victims come forward.
ALKALASH: My message to them, don't be afraid. Go to the police station, go to the (INAUDIBLE) file complain against this employer, you have rights.
It's very important to empower yourself.
KARADSHEH: Al-Maeda's case may take years in Jordanian courts, she was deported back to the Philippines in November leaving behind her long wait
for justice. Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Amman.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[15:45:08] JONES: Well, March 14th is our second annual My Freedom Day. CNN is partnering with young people around the world for a student-led day
of action against modern day slavery. Driving my freedom day is one simple question, what does freedom mean to you? You can post a photo or video
using the #myfreedomday to get involved.
Still to come on the program tonight, she is one of the world's most recognizable models. He is the co-founder of one of the most fashionable
brands on the planet. Now, an accusation of harassment is having a real impact on Guess. Details just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: Welcome back to the program. It is one of the biggest clothing brands in the world, but right now, it's in a bit of troubles, shares in
Guess have been taking a hit. They're down again today after falling nearly 18 percent on Thursday. This all, comes after a tweet from the
model Kate Upton about the company's co-founder Paul Marciano. So, let's get the details on the story. Hadas Gold is live for us from New York.
Hadas, good to see you. Any response yet from Guess or indeed any clarification from Kate Upton as to the allegations she may or may not be
making?
HADAS GOLD, CNN EUROPEAN POLITICS, MEDIA AND BUSINESS REPORTER: So, we have no clarification yet on exactly what Kate Upton is referring to. All
we have to go off of is her tweet and an Instagram where she says, "It is disappointing that such an iconic women's brand like Guess is still
empowering Paul Marciano as their creative director. #MeToo."
Now, we've tried to figure out what Kate Upton is referring to; she seems to indicate to some media that she's going to explain more as to what's
happening. Paul Marciano responded to TMZ saying -- defending himself, saying that he doesn't know what she's talking about. But as we can see,
just an allegation, just a tweet can cause a lot of activity and a lot of money for a big company. I mean, Paul Marciano himself is one of the
largest shareholders of Guess. And he lost millions of dollars when that stock plunged yesterday.
JONES: What about any background, any previous allegations that may have come -- been put against Paul Marciano or Guess and any of the other people
involved in the company? Are there any other allegations out there? Might that somehow give some credence to this whole kind of trial by Twitter that
we're seeing taking place now?
GOLD: You know, as far as I can tell, I haven't seen anything that's been really big in the news. There might be some out there. This comes -- this
has been sort of an awkward time. They've just -- Guess, the brand, just launched Jennifer Lopez as one of the new spokespeople. She released a
statement saying that she supports victims of sexual harassment and that she wants them to speak out, but that we don't know all the facts just yet.
Clearly, this is something that we're just going off of not a lot of information yet. And to have this allegation just put out there so quickly
and to have this reaction already, you know, Kate Upton is a really big name, and if -- and if she has some major allegations, this spells a lot of
trouble not only for Paul Marciano but for the Guess brand as a whole.
[15:50:07] JONES: And just to clarify then, Kate Upton has actually worked in collaboration with Guess, she's modeled for them in the past, right?
GOLD: Yes. Yes. She has modeled for them in the past so she has worked directly with the company, worked directly with this person that she's
accusing of. We just don't know what exactly these allegations are. So, we just don't have a lot to go off of. All we have are this tweet and then
a follow-up Instagram post that didn't give us, really, any more details.
JONES: OK. We wait to get some more details on it. For the time being, Hadas Gold, thank you.
GOLD: Thank you.
JONES: More to come, including a right royal mixup. Meghan Markle laughs as presenting an award at a ceremony, doesn't quite go as planned. All
will be revealed after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JONES: All this week, CNN has been reporting on Gangwon Province. Every year, hundreds flock to this area for a very special sight. You are
looking at one of South Korea's most beloved winter activities, the Pyeongchang Fishing Festival. Isa Soares takes us out onto the ice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Pyeongchang in winter is a place of snowy reverie and frigid landscapes. At an average elevation of
750 meters and temperatures dropping as low as negative 10 degrees, this is one of the coldest regions in all of South Korea.
But that doesn't stop people from flocking to the frozen Odaecheon Stream and enjoying one of the country's most beloved wintertime activities, ice
fishing. In preparation for the fishing bonanza, some 3,800 holes are drilled into an 80-acre stretch of the frozen river.
Throughout the year, the cold and clear waters of Pyeongchang provide the ideal conditions for raising trout. Between December and February, those
farm-raised trout are released through the holes drilled into the frozen river. This year, more than 40 centimeters thick. Then anglers of all
ages drop their colorful (INAUDIBLE) into the same holes, and wait.
The Pyeongchang Trout Festival is in its 11th year. Committee head Kim Young-koo said that this year he's hoping to clear a million visitors.
KIM YOUNG-KOO, COMMITTEE HEAD, PYEONGCHANG TROUT FESTIVAL (through translator): We started with almost nothing in 2007 and have always relied
on volunteers from the community. Being able to support the local trout farmers is what I'm most proud of.
SOARES: 36-year-old In Jong-sook has been going to the trout festival for just two years, but he's developed a knack for luring his speckled prey.
Less than a minute after casting his bait, he can feel the tell-tale tug on his rod. He has caught a beauty.
[15:55:02] A flurry of activity in an otherwise quiet part of South Korea. Young and old bundled up and in pursuit of some winter fun. And perhaps
some lunch, too. Isa Soares, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JONES: There is no doubt about it. All eyes will be on Meghan Markle for the next few months ahead of her wedding to Prince Harry at Windsor. And
the cameras were firmly focussed on her as she gave out an award at a ceremony in London. The only problem, though, an awkward mixup of the
names.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEGHAN MARKLE, AMERICAN ACTRESS: The second price of the evening is awarded to an individual who has endeavored to achieve excellence in their
chosen sport or adventurous challenge.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Well, you'll be pleased to hear they finally found the names and got that award to its rightful owner.
And now, before we go, we just want to bring you up to date with where things are currently standing on the U.S. markets. So, let's take a look
at the big board here. Down 680 points at the moment. At 500, this was already the worst day for the markets at least for the Trump presidency so
far. It all comes despite a strong jobs report that was out today. Investors are apparently worried about inflation and the bond market. Wage
growth is up at the moment. And that means that inflation is then on the rise as well. And so, investors are concerned about an interest rate hike
perhaps by the Fed. And of course, the political turmoil that we've seen in Washington, all adding to the uncertainty. And of course, analysts have
been warning that the market could overheat after months of record gains, down 677 points at the moment.
Much more on this coming up in the next hour on "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS." In the meantime, though, I'm Hannah Vaughan Jones in London. Thanks so much
for watching.
END
