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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Girl Lured from Walmart, Raped and Killed; Girl Found Dead After Filing Restraining Order; Violent Robbery; One More Thing. Aired 6:30-7p ET
Aired February 12, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to Crime and Justice. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.
If there is one fact that we can all agree on, Michael Dial, this guy should never have been driving on that fateful night or that fateful day.
He might not be a dead man today. But Michael Dial got behind the wheel without a license and police gave chase. And when they tried to pull
Michael Dial over, he just kept on driving.
And this is what it looked like. The driving got crazy. And before it was all over, the rag tag contents of Michael Dial`s trailer flailed into the
air and scattered for miles.
Several police cruisers were rammed and Michael Dial eventually got a bullet to the head. Now his widow is suing the sheriff after hearing that
sheriff gave the order to shoot to kill rather than risk any more vehicles being rammed by her husband.
Some say that`s heartless and others say he had it coming. And when you actually see the chase, you might just change your mind.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... including deadly force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Code 59, use deadly force if necessary. Take the son of bitch out by any means necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ninety six, what`s your forty?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take care of everything else.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: After getting the order to take out that suspect by any means necessary, you can see on one of the deputy`s body cameras that he takes
out his gun, and he has it in his hand right there on the wheel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Let me see your hands!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s dead! He`s dead!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So there is another video and it just might be the video that`s causing a lot of trouble. There was a body camera in the back seat of the
cruiser that the sheriff had taken off and tossed in the back seat. Didn`t maybe know it was running.
But the sheriff was having a conversation with someone in the vehicle with them and also a couple of phone calls. And it`s what the sheriff said on
the phone calls and to that person who was in the cruiser, the fellow officer that`s making headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him, I said take him out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard him that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Damn, I don`t give a shit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He went long after that. I heard shots fired. Shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He said we`ll ram him, I said don`t ram him, shoot him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He turns my cars up. I`ve got two cars tore up again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That old boy (Inaudible) that I whooped. That me and John and me and (Inaudible) go to jail. That`s him he tore our cars all to
hell. He tried to kill him. I`m telling you are saved a city car. He had a (Inaudible) with the back window of that truck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, right now I don`t know if Charlie shot him or Adam, but it looks Adam shot him. Adam took it hard. He talks that big shit
and now he`s in the big leagues. You know, if he can`t take it, he need to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:05:11] BANFIELD: CNN correspondent Kaylee Hartung joins me live from Atlanta. So this collection of videos and there is plenty more, let me just
say has now led to a lawsuit by Michael Dial`s widow. What is she stating, what is her issue in the lawsuit specifically?
KAYLEE HARTUNG, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, very simply, Ashleigh. She believes that excessive force was used in the pursuit of her husband`s
death. This audio and video that you have just allowed to be shown in such detail helped her case tremendously. Because you are able to see the
progression of the decisions made by the sheriffs and the officers who fired their weapons that day.
The sheriff wasn`t involved in the pursuit. His eyes weren`t on the suspect that vehicle that trailer. He couldn`t process what if any danger the
suspect presented to civilians or to his officers or their vehicles. And yet, he gave that order to use deadly force. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: The whole officer that the officer didn`t have eyes on this because he wasn`t involve in the pursuit, he`s on the radio. And as I
understand this chase went on for 17 miles. So it was going on for quite some time.
A lot of the radio traffic that I`ve heard sounded pretty dire. I mean, it sounded as though cruiser after cruiser is being rammed, they`re being
rammed off the road. They`re being rammed on the road. It is extraordinarily dangerous.
I think I heard at least once or maybe even twice he is going to kill someone and that was coming from somebody who was actually in the pursuit.
So the sheriff was privy to all this communication and the order use deadly force if you need to came only a minute before the actual shooting.
So, wasn`t that sheriff privy tow what sounded like a pretty bad and dangerous chase before he gave the order?
HARTUNG: You are right. Absolutely. And this chase we should note, had gone on for about 15 minutes in DeKalb County before it went into White
County where Sheriff Oddie Shoupe has his jurisdiction. So you are right in making that point, Ashleigh.
It`s very clear from the dispatch recordings we hear and the back and forth among officers that they did feel that they were in danger just as they
used pit maneuvers to try to ram their cars into Michael Dial`s vehicle. Michael Dial continued to drive.
And if you look at some of the earlier recordings on the dash cams, Michael Dial`s vehicle was drifting into the oncoming traffic lane before they were
on that highway 111 where it`s like an interstate with the median in between. So it is true from the officer`s perspective they had concern.
And that`s something you also heard the sheriff express in that body cam that he didn`t realize was recording in the back seat of one of his patrol
cars. That`s something you hear. He`s in another phone conversation. And you hear him explain that he gave the order to take out Dial because as the
sheriff said, he was going to kill somebody if we hadn`t.
That is the argument that the sheriff and the two officers who fired their weapons will make when they go to court for this federal trial. If it does
in fact make it to court. But the district attorney has already ruled that he does believe this shooting was justified because of the evidence that
the sheriff has provided him the same evidence that we are looking at here.
And yet, as we look at this and as we hear the sheriff`s comments, we heard the outrage expressed by so many.
BANFIELD: Kaylee, let me play something if I can. This was some of the -- this is some of the sound that was recorded from the back seat. The vehicle
that the Sheriff was in as he was talking to someone in the vehicle and also making some phone calls. I want to play it and I want to ask something
specific on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think I`ll give the damn order to kill that that mother (muted). They`re full of shit. Take him out. And besides I`m
feeling the damn thing near the damn county.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Use deadly force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shit. I love this shit. God I tell you what, I thrive on it. That`s three pursuits, that`s three pursuits we`ve had, I`m telling
you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Kaylee, what I am interested in this. A lot of media has covered this case. And a lot of the headlines have said, "Sheriff says I
love this shit. And I thrive on this." But the context of it I think is lost. Because what he said in that vehicle prior to that is that the deputy
who actually did the shooting was very devastated.
And the sheriff said he has to toughen up if he`s going to be in this line of work. And then the sheriff said I thrive on this. And I`m going to be
quite honest, Kaylee, I think you`re probably not that dissimilar to me.
[18:10:01] I also thrive on breaking news when the action gets going in our business. Our adrenaline gets going and we do what we love to do. We don`t
love what`s happening in the breaking news. We don`t want people to be involved in mass shootings. We don`t want these things to happen.
But our job is to communicate and do our jobs. And when it get electrified, we get electrified. Is anyone coming to the sheriff`s defense to that
aspect of his comments?
HARTUNG: Ashleigh, I agree with you whole heartedly and I think when you listen to the conversation in its entirety, it`s clear to you as it is to
me that the sheriff is saying he thrives on the pursuit just as you make that relation to the world that we work in.
But no, I have yet to find anyone who has come to the sheriff`s defense and we`ve asked the sheriff`s department for comment, but citing there`s
federal lawsuit against him. They do not have comment to offer us. But I think you make a very important point.
BANFIELD: Yes. You know, like oftentimes when you do this quick news stories and this is a very long story. There are several different video
says. I think there`s something like six hours of video in total. And no one is going to put that in a three or five minute investigative piece that
there is a lot of context that might be missing out of it as well.
But to that end, I want to keep watching this video as I ask my next guest, retired NYPD lieutenant and criminal justice expert Darrin Porcher. This is
what you do when you train. You talk about situations like this, Darrin.
Do you have any defense for the sheriff telling these guys who are in pursuit of a guy who keeps hitting them and could kill them. Effectively,
he could run them off the road and they could be killed. Do you have a defense for a sheriff who says that`s it? Enough of the ramming. Use deadly
force if you have to.
DARRIN PORCHER, RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT: Absolutely. Michael Dial -- Michael Dial put these cops and innocent citizens in the pathway of death. What he did was super reckless and I want to say the police chief or the
sheriff did what was necessary to take him out.
We had innocent civilians that were riding on that highway. Cops were rammed into therefore there was no alternative but to use deadly physical
force. Because that vehicle was being used as a deadly weapon that can possible kill of the innocent victims on the highway.
BANFIELD: And may I just say if someone is willing to ram a cruiser and another cruiser and then, yet maybe another a few more times a cruiser,
would they be so concerned about ramming little ol` me?
PORCHER: Absolutely not. This is somebody who has a propensity of hurting innocent civilians on this highway. This is somebody that has a suspended
license and cares nothing, and I mean nothing for law enforcement. Therefore I totally applaud that sheriff`s decision in using deadly
physical force to take this man out.
BANFIELD: So I have a feeling that defense attorney and CNN and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson is going to disagree with you and me and he knows the
law. And there are some nuances to law about what a deadly weapon actually constitutes. Does a vehicle when used the way Michael Dial appeared to be
using that vehicle, Joey, constitute a deadly weapon meaning fight with the same commensurate force, deadly force.
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: All right. So let`s just back up. Yes, indeed a car could constitute a dangerous weapon 100 percent. Yes, he
put people`s lives in danger. Yes, or should I say no, he shouldn`t have been driving. He had a suspended license.
Having said that, I could not disagree more with my esteemed colleague Dr. Porcher on this issue and here`s why. When you analyze and talk about the
sheriff`s order, the sheriff`s order, Ashleigh and Dr. Porcher, was not predicated upon your narrative. People are in danger. He`s going to kill
someone. He`s running into someone.
Furthermore, in addition to that I don`t see this as a residential area. This is not an area in which there are many people running on to the
street. It`s a highway. Yes, that means it`s dangerous. However let me haste to say. He said that he wanted him dead because he wanted to protect
his property.
We don`t as a matter of law order people dead and give them the death penalty because we are afraid that our squad car is going to be damaged.
That`s not the standard theory.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: I hear you there. Joey, I hear you there, but that`s not the only thing he said. He said no more ramming. He`s already rammed. So it
wasn`t let`s take him put to protect the vehicles, it was enough already. He rammed enough of them already.
And also some of those officers said he`s going to kill someone before the sheriff actually said use deadly force if needed. Does that change the
dynamic.
JACKSON: The issue is not he`s going to kill someone at some point into the future, the issue is the immediacy of the threat. We are talking about
someone`s life. We should not be so cavalier, and when I say we, the sheriff, to no to be so cavalier as to predicate an order to shoot to skill
based upon a squad car that they were going to damage.
[18:15:04] In the event that there was oncoming traffic that yo saw him leavin into, in the event, for example, that you saw a sheriff that was in
immediate danger. Then of course it would be necessary, but to say at some point into the future, anyone in running, you know, when riding a bicycle
you can run over and kill someone.
BANFIELD: Yes.
JACKSON: What was the activity at the critical moment that the shot was ordered. And this guy, the sheriff should be in jail and the person who
fired that shot also should be investigated. Because you can refuse an unlawful order. This order was unlawful, period.
BANFIELD: That is interesting. I would just be scared under with that trailer thinking any minute it would snap off and smash into the vehicle. I
do want to say just before I wrap this, that the widow`s lawsuit says "Several officers were unsuccessful in their effort to stop Mr. Dial,
however their failed efforts resulted in them damaging their own patrol vehicles."
And I see that and my blood kind of boils. And I`ve got actually at 7 o`clock coming up in about little less than 45 minutes, I have another -- I
have another piece of lawsuit I want to read for you. And I don`t know if this stuff boils your blood.
But as far as threats to the public, the widow does have something to say about that. And I`ll give you a hint. She sort of suggests there aren`t
many threats to the public.
A mother`s worst fears realized when her 8-year-old daughter disappears with a stranger whom they had met while shopping.
(BEGIN VOICE CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wanted to buy these really tall shoes that were women`s shoes and I told him no. I said they were too high for her, I
wouldn`t even wear shoes that high. Maybe he was grooming her. I hope to God he doesn`t kill. I hope to God he doesn`t ape her.
(END VOICE CLIP)
BANFIELD: That is exactly what the prosecutors say Donald Smith seen here with Cherish Perrywinkle that`s what they said he did. And they gave some
explosive curdling details from the courtroom today as he sat stoically listening.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: What can you say about Donald Smith. A quick online search and you won`t find much of anything nice. He is accused of grabbing a little
girl named Cherish Perrywinkle from the Wal-Mart and then raping and torturing her and murdering her.
Police say they found the 8-year-old girl the day after she disappeared naked, still wearing the same dress she 24 wore at the Wal-Mart. She under
a tree in a creek a few miles away covered in ants. She was dead. She had been raped.
But this week someone will have to come up with something nice to say about Donald Smith, especially his lawyers. Because opening statements in his
trial started today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA NELSON, FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: Cherish Perrywinkle was 8 years old. She weighed 57 pounds. Separated from her mother, her little sisters,
from all she knew. She spent the last petrifying hours of her life with him.
He gagged her. He raped her. He sodomized her. And then he strangled her. After he killed her he pulled her little lifeless body through the woods,
pushed it under the water, forced it under a tree and took asphalt, bricks and debris and weighed her down. Because the plan was for no one to find
her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And just about the worst thing in the world for a defendant to see when he is on trial for murder is the mother of the dead child, staring
you down from the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man who started talking to you, do you see him here in the courtroom here today?
RAYNE PERRYWINKLE, CHERISH PERRYWINKLE`S MOTHER: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you point to him and describe where he is seated and what he is wearing today.
PERRYWINKLE: He`s wearing a long sleeved blue shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the glasses on top of his head?
PERRYWINKLE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now is Jenese Harris, she is a reporter for CNN affiliate WJXT, she is inside the courthouse. She`s been covering this all
day. And Jenese, I want to play for our audience something from the opening statements where Donald Smith`s defense attorney gets up before the court
and it sure sounds to me like he doesn`t have much of a defense, but instead seems all too willing to blame that poor grieving mom for screwing
up the night her daughter died. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And although she will describe the stranger she ultimately entrusts to have watch over her children as creepy, she will
tell you that at about 9 o`clock at night having shopped in this first two stores for almost two hours, she makes the decision to get into a white van
with shuttered windows, no proper seats, and place her children in that van.
[18:25:09] She goes with a complete stranger to Wal-Mart over eight miles away. And she doesn`t flinched when Cherish -- I don`t see in her very own
eyes, wanders off with this stranger. Not once, not twice, three to four times. And she thinks nothing of it. The fact that this person claims I`m
going to go get cheeseburgers and Cherish just wanders off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So it`s the mother`s fault that a man stole her, raped her, murdered her, and left her in a creek. Jenese, is that all they have?
JENESE HARRIS, REPORTER, WJXT: Well, what`s interesting about this from the side of the defense is they had an opportunity to do a cross
examination of Rayne Perrywinkle and something happened, something very surprising happened. Donald Smith, the defendant told his team I do not
want you to do a cross-examination of Rayne Perrywinkle.
At that point the judge asked him to speak and he said I don`t want her to go through anything that she doesn`t have to go through.
But the state they are the ones that have all of this evidence as you just mentioned in some of those sound bites. And more of that is going to come
out tomorrow through the autopsy report when the medical examiner`s office goes into the court and testifies and talks in very gruesome details about
Cherish Perrywinkle`s autopsy the way that she was raped, the way that she was strangled and how she died.
BANFIELD: I`m going to play that in a moment. Do we have a very -- I just want to let our viewers know we have about a two or three second delay
between us so sometimes it`s a little weird. We`ll talk over each other and I apologize for that in advance.
But I want to show some images of the arrest picture versus him in court. Because the side by side really shows the guy who was there that night at
the Wal-Mart and next to the guy who cleaned up for court today. Let`s put those two pictures up.
This is the one who was hauled in that. I mean, I think it was within hours. They hauled him in Donald Smith and arrested him. Found the van
found so much of what people would find smoking gun evidence. Video of him leaving the Wal-Mart with Cherish Perrywinkle in a parking with Cherish
Perrywinkle. The van, I mean, and then of course that moment that Perry Mason moment where she pointed him out in court.
I want to play, if I can, the biggest question. If they started their opening defense and it`s just so maddening to hear someone blame a mother
of a dead, raped child. They asked -- they asked Cherish`s mom why she would let this child go to McDonald`s with this relative stranger who
they`d actually know -- she`d actually know now I think for a couple of hours. And this is -- this is how that played out in court. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, why did you feel it`s OK to let Cherish walk to McDonald`s with the defendant?
PERRYWINKLE: If he would have asked me if he could take her, I would have said no. But because McDonald`s is inside Wal-Mart with people around, I
knew she would never leave my sight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you known that they were going to leave the store, would you have let Cherish leave the store with the defendant.
PERRYWINKLE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever ask you, Cherish come with me to leave the store?
PERRYWINKLE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you have ever let your child leave the store and leave the Wal-Mart with this defendant?
PERRYWINKLE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You thought they were just going to get cheeseburgers?
PERRYWINKLE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Jenese, the prosecution even described this woman as naive.
(CROSSTALK)
HARRIS: So the states...
BANFIELD: And the biggest curiosity I have is because it all comes down to the 12 people who are listening, what did the jury seem to do when they saw
this woman on the stand in tears, admitting it was a Wal-Mart. The McDonald`s was inside with people all around. I thought it was safe. What
did the jury -- how was their reaction?
HARRIS: Well, one thing I want to note is they actually poled 300 potential jurors before they narrowed it down to the jury that`s in there
now. So they have kind of weeded out the people that responded emotionally when they were kind of giving a preview during the jury selection as to
what they would expect when it comes to testimony.
[18:29:56] So, the jurors that are in that court they have been taking notes very attentively, listening to every word and paying attention to
everything that the state or the prosecution says. Paying attention to everything that she said as well, Mrs. Perrywinkle. But they have been a
very attentive group of jurors so far. Not showing a lot of emotion. But they have been prepared.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: Let me bring in Rachel Stockman, the editor-in-chief of Law and Crime Network.
Rachel, something, you know, that Jenese alluded to at the beginning of this report, was the fact that after this poor grieving mother was on the
stand being questioned by the prosecutor, that`s the friendly side of this case, you know, the prosecutors on her side, typically what happens is the
defense goes in and rips apart anything that said under cross-examination.
But with the jury not in the room as Jenese reported, the one and only time we heard from Donald Smith, the defendant, is in answer to whether he
wanted to cross examine this mom. And again, the jury is not here, but this is what he said in court. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My client has just indicated to me that he`s not pushing to cross-examine Ms. Perrywinkle in any fashion. Will be at an
appropriate time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): OK. Attorneys tell me now that you wish for them not to do any cross examination of this witness, is that correct?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s correct.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Do you understand there will not be another opportunity for them to cross-examine her? Do you understand that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Completely.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): And you understand of course as I tell the jury, you and your attorneys are not required to do anything. You are
not required to cross examine any witness. Do you understand that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): That`s clearly how you wish to proceed?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t want anything that she doesn`t have to go through right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: So, Rachel, I guess I`m thinking why bother going to trial. If you are going to open by blaming this poor grieving mom for the death and
the rape of her daughter, and then you`re going to just suggest outside the presence of the jury, so you don`t even get credit for being a nice guy in
the eyes of the jury that you don`t want to cross-examine her, why wasn`t this a plea?
RACHEL STOCKMAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, LAW AND CRIME NETWORK: I have no idea. I think it wasn`t a plea ultimately because the death penalty is on the table
in this case. And Donald Smith and his attorney decided they would rather take this to trial to try to avoid the death penalty than to just admit any
type of guilt.
But I`m with you, Ashleigh. I found the defense attorneys opening statements in which he tried to blame the mom for this. Absolutely
maddening. As parents, we have all made really bad mistakes. But you know what? You never deserved to have your 8-year-old --
BANFIELD: No kidding.
STOCKMAN: -- abducted, raped, sodomized by this man. And for her to say this, I`m telling you, it`s not going to fly with the jurors. It just not.
BANFIELD: And I`m going to give a big disclaimer here. If you have kids in the room right now, I`m going to play a piece of evidence, what the
prosecutor said to this jury, who had already heard that opening that it`s somehow the mom`s fault, and it is the autopsy information on this little
girl.
Big disclaimer. Please get your children away from the TV set. This is not for ears under the age of 18. This is not for the squeamish, but it is
critical that the jury hear exactly what happened to this little girl and the condition she was left in. This is the prosecutor.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Her lips, nose, teeth, and gums, injured from smothering, from gagging. A hickey on her right breast from forceful
sucking. Traumatic injury to her genitalia. I`m not going to mince words. You will hear her genitalia was destroyed. That`s the word that the doctor
used from forceful rape and sodomy. Semen in her vagina and her rectum and in her mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joey Jackson, her DNA was also found on his penis. How can he avoid the death penalty in this case?
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, CNN AND HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know what? He is going to have to beg and plea to that jury and use some
type of -- connect with them in some way to say that it is not warranted. This is a very compelling case against him, Ashleigh.
I don`t see really how a jury overlooks this considering this girl is eight years old and you just heard what I just heard. The jury heard that, too.
BANFIELD: Yes, I heard him also suggesting the mother is to blame and that is not lost on anyone. We will continue to follow this case.
We also have some breaking news out of Colorado that I want to bring to you right now where police have a suspect in the custody of the murder of this
young woman, Natalie Bollinger. But wait, it is not person you might be thinking, the person she took a restraining order out against right before
she died. It is someone
[18:35:00] who said she hired him on Craigslist to kill her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: It seemed like police
[18:40:00] had the guy. That they were just letting him slip right through their teenagers. A beautiful teenager shows up dead in a field in Colorado
just two weeks after filing a restraining order against a man she claimed was stalking her.
But police would not even call that guy a suspect. Days turned into weeks. Weeks turned into months. And that man was still out walking free. But that
man had plenty to say to cameras as they caught him leaving a police interview last month.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been instructed not to speak to you all, but I got a few more fingers for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Do you know what happened to her?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Do you know who does?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would I know what happened to Natalie? What do you guys know? All I know is from Facebook Messenger. And I hate Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did Facebook Messenger say?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn`t matter. You need to get hold of the police and talk to them. In the police department you can ask them whatever you
feel is pertinent. However, my rights have been violated for the last week and you guys are seriously all up in my bubble and freaking me out and
giving me a panic attack. Well done, sir.
BANFIELD (voice over): But even with all of those strange comments, police did not arrest Shawn Schwartz, that man talking to the cameras, who had the
restraining order taken out on him. But they did arrest somebody else. And now they have charged that somebody else with the murder of Natalie
Bollinger.
MICHAEL MCINTOSH, SHERIFF, ADAMS COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: We were able to develop and identify Joseph Lopez, date of birth, six, six of 95. Just last
night, Joseph was arrested for the murder of Natalie Bollinger, and he is now in Adams County Sheriffs Office and the formal charges will be coming
forth.
BANFIELD: Nobody saw this coming. And now there are more questions than answers as to how this young woman was targeted, how she was taken, and how
she was killed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: With me now, Randy Corporon, host of 710 KNUS in Denver. Randy, how did they end up finding this Joseph Lopez, 22 years old. What`s the
connection?
RANDY CORPORON, HOST, 710 KNUS: You know, Ashleigh, I listened to the entire police conference and it sounds like they combed through hundreds
and hundreds and hundreds of text messages and social media and they located this Joseph Lopez by connecting them to over 100 texts that he
exchanged with Natalie.
BANFIELD: So what is all this weird business that is now coming out about her going on Facebook and soliciting someone as a hit man and she would be
the target of the hit. Make sense of this for me.
CORPORON: Yes, according to the police affidavit, Lopez told the cops that Ashley -- I`m sorry, Natalie made a request on Craigslist for a hit man to
come and kill her. And so Lopez responded that he was an experienced hit man and went and met with Natalie.
BANFIELD: It is just sort of a really bizarre sequence of events. But you know, he is facing suspicion of first-degree murder. Max penalty is death.
He has been held without bond.
I want to bring in Misti Janda. She is a former coworker and friend of this man, Joseph Lopez. She joins me from Denver. Misty, what is your reaction
to the arrest of your former friend?
MISTI JANDA, FORMER COWORKER AND FRIEND OF SUSPECT (via telephone): Disbelief. Nobody really expected him to do anything like this or be
capable of anything like this. He was really kind and caring and nice and so it`s disbelief more than anything else.
BANFIELD: You guys as I understand worked at Domino`s Pizza together. You hang out after work almost every day. And then you hear this. Do you think
they have the wrong guy?
JANDA (via telephone): Honestly I can`t really like say. With everything that has come out, it kind of goes to show that I didn`t really know him
like I thought I did, because I didn`t know anything about anything. So, I can`t say. He admitted to it, so --
BANFIELD: I mean, it is odd. In the police affidavit, he has admitted to it and the Adams County sheriff said he is the lone suspect in this case.
Have a listen to what the Sheriff Michael McIntosh had to say.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTOSH: We don`t at this point to my knowledge don`t have any other persons of interest in this case. We believe that from what we currently
see that we have the lone suspect in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:45:00] BANFIELD: I want to bring in Joey Jackson. Joey, the rush to judgment is always that the strange guy must be the guy. If this isn`t a
lesson in the best defense is necessary in this country, I bring you Shawn Schwartz, the strange man who she took a restraining order out against just
weeks before she was found dead in a field, and apparently this all happened.
JACKSON: That is so well stated. There it was and I can recall and I was with you on the show and we were talking about Mr. Schwartz and that
interview that you played and the protective order against him. So, certainly he was a person of suspicion.
But then lo and behold and you have to give credit to the police here who combed through the social media and looked through her phone and that
Schwartz there who all indications would be hey, it was potentially him.
But now all cases turn on, Ashleigh, facts and evidence. And apparently from the facts and evidence, it led to Lopez and he essentially said it was
me. Apparently, there are texts and other information to back it up. The next issue becomes connecting the actual weapon to her murder.
BANFIELD: Over 100 text messages. There you go, guys. The best defense, there is a reason for it. It`s not always as it appears. Joey, thank you.
Misti, thank you. Randy, thank you as well.
The video was absolutely shocking. An armed robber pistol whipping a clerk and her adult son with a 4-year-old grandson ducking for cover. Well now,
they made an arrest, and it`s this man. Why do you suppose he had this look in the mug shot? We will find out next.
[18:50:0] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We have an update tonight on the clerk and her son and grandson who were pistol whipped during a violent robbery at a convenience store in
North Carolina that sent a 4-year-old child ducking for cover.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD (voice over): You can see the guy walk into the store, hood up, wearing a brown jacket. He approaches the register and stands next to the
man at the register, and then pulls out a gun, grabs the man around the neck, and points that gun squarely at his head. That`s mom across the
corner, by the way. He then points it at mom across the counter.
From another angle, you can see the suspect waving the gun erratically back and forth at the mom, at her son, pistol whipping the son, knocking him off
of his feet. He then goes and grabs that mom who is the clerk and she pulls the grandson back to try to protect that little child.
Watch this. Tries to get him out of the way of danger. The grown son runs out of the store with the phone and dials for help. The clerk then said the
robber seemed absolutely desperate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): As soon as he walked in, I had an eerie feeling about the whole thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He aimed the gun at my grandson and he said he will kill him. He kept telling my son I want the money, I want the
money. My son said I don`t work here. He had no remorse, no concern for anything or anybody and that`s scary.
BANFIELD (voice over): But it only got worse actually. You can see the gun hovering her. She is fumbling for the key to the register. She drops it.
And he smacks her across the side of the head with the gun. But he still can`t get into the register. So instead, he starts just grabbing what he
can. Cigars, pushing past that clerk, and running to the waiting get away car, of course.
Police believe that car itself was stolen during a violent carjacking just one day before what you saw just played out. And the victim of that
carjacking was left with this, a fractured bone in his face and a serious black eye.
There is some good news on this tonight and that is police think they know who did this, this violent pistol whipping suspect. And we have his mug
shot. Feast your eyes on Deonte Brice. No stranger to law. Maybe that`s why he knows a thing or two about posing for a mug shot.
He is reportedly already been in jail for violating rules of his probation, for allegedly picking up an elementary school student at the bus stop a few
weeks before the robbery, which you can`t do if you are a registered sex offender.
Also in custody tonight is his alleged get away driver and another lovely mug shot, Bingham. Both men now being held on $500,000 bond.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: So, you know those fancy cars that you can start remotely? Jump off the mug shot to something different. Do you ever thought about how easy
it would be to steal one of those remotely started cars? Without the key, you can`t start it again. One more thing straight ahead. The guy who stole
the car and couldn`t start it again. What his solution was.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. An alleged car thief is facing charges after he called the owner of the car he allegedly stole when he
couldn`t get it to start again. Police say Edward Leroy Wilson swiped the car from a Walmart parking lot after the owner had remotely started it
while she was shopping.
He was long gone when she got finished shopping but a couple of hours later, he somehow figured out a way to call her. The criminal complaint
said that he tried to tell her he was working on the windshield of her car and needed to start it so that he could return the car to her like she
didn`t notice it was stolen.
He actually gave her an address where he was working. Guess who showed up instead of her. The police and made an arrest. And now he is facing, you
guessed it, car theft charges.
[19:00:00] But there is no charge for being extraordinarily dumb, it seems. Next hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him take him out.
BANFIELD (voice-over): An officer`s body cam hears this between a deputy and a sheriff.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Damn, I don`t give a shut. It wasn`t long after that I heard shots fired. Shots fired.
BANFIELD: All this after a dangerous slow speed chase led to a suspect being shot in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t ram him, shoot him!
BANFIELD: It`s that order, shoot to kill that is landed him in court.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love this shit. God, I tell you what, I thrive on it.
BANFIELD: Now the widow of the man who rammed four cruisers is suing the sheriff -- saying they used excessive force.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they font think I will give the damn order to kill that mother (bleep), they are full of shit.
BANFIELD: Will there be justice for Cherish Periwinkle.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taken from a stranger. I can`t find her.
BANFIELD: A young girl taken from a Walmart.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where did you see her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Walmart.
BANFIELD: She was raped.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t want him to kill her.
BANFIELD: And murdered. Now the suspect is blaming the mom for trusting a stranger with her daughter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was that the last time you ever saw your daughter alive?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
BANFIELD: With the haunting blue eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cause of death was a single gunshot wound to the head.
BANFIELD: She filed a restraining order against a man just weeks before she died.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have been instructed not to speak to you all.
BANFIELD: But if you think it`s him, you would be dead wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were able to develop and identify Joseph Lopez.
BANFIELD: Police haul in a mystery man. Where does he fit into the picture and did he even know Natalie Bollinger?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to the second hour of Crime And Justice.
Giving a shoot to kill order is no easy task for a cop. They are under enormous pressure these days whether or not to even fire their weapons at
all. But if an officer does take out that weapon, that`s what he is trained to do. Shoot to kill. And I would like you to remember that as I
take you through our top story tonight.
And it begins with this guy, Michael Dial. And if there is one thing we can agree on is he should not have been driving on a highway in middle
Tennessee last April. In fact, he might be alive today if he just stayed away from his truck, but he didn`t.
He got behind the wheel without a license. And when police tried to pull Dial over, he just kept on driving. So they gave chase. And it went on
for about 17 minutes across two counties. Rag tag contents of Mr. Dial`s trailer flaring into the air scattering for miles. Several police cruisers
were rammed by Michael Dial and eventually Michael Dial got a bullet to the head.
Now his widow is suing the sheriff after hearing that the sheriff gave the order to shoot to kill rather than risk any more vehicles or officers being
rammed by her husband. Some say that is heartless and others say he had it coming. But when you actually see the chase, it might change your mind.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The car is down there on the side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see him again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-4. Ge a hold (INAUDIBLE). And see if we can do something to get this man off.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Use deadly force if necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Code 59, use deadly force if necessary. Take the son of bitch out by any means necessary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 96, what`s your point?
[19:05:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are losing the boy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not land the subject. If you need to use your shotgun, use it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired! Shots fired!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: From one deputy`s body camera, after getting the order to take out Mr. Dial by any means necessary, you can see the deputy take out his
gun and actually put it on the wheel of his car.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the ground! Let me see your hands!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is dead! He is dead!
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: But there is one more video and it might just be the most important video. And it might be the one that is causing so much trouble.
There was a body camera in the back seat of the cruiser that the sheriff was riding in on away n fact from all of this. Sheriff was with another
officer in the cruise. (INAUDIBLE) to the sheriff, his body camera in the backseat still recording. And it is what the sheriff said on the phone and
also to the fellow officer in the cruiser that is making a lot of headlines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they font think I will give the damn order to kill that mother (bleep), they are full of shit.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shit.
I love this shit. God, I tell you what, I thrive on it. That`s three pursuits, that`s three pursuits we have had, I`m telling you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: CNN correspondent Kaylee Hartung joins me live now from Atlanta.
So there is now officially a lawsuit that has been launched against a number of parties, White county, Tennessee, the sheriff (INAUDIBLE), Adam
West who is one of the officer who is fire, the city of (INAUDIBLE) at Tennessee and also Charlie Simms, another officer who fired. And this is
from the widow of Michael Dial.
What exactly did she say they did wrong in hers, too?
KAYLEE HARTUNG, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, when you were able to see and hear the video that you just played at such length there for us,
you are able to better understand the sheriff`s intent during and after the chase. He gives the order to use deadly force to protect his patrol cars.
And as this lawsuit says, using deadly force for the defense of personal property is something you can`t do. That is where Robin Dial, Michael
Dial`s widow takes great grievance with what happened on that day.
And now we should say the district attorney has already ruled that the shooting was justified. According to the district attorney, he said over
the course of that lengthy pursue of two counties. Mr. Dial repeatedly, willingly and directly endangered the lives of the civilians drivers and
law enforcement officers. Now this case filed in federal court will be up to a different set of eyes and ears.
BANFIELD: Yes. So what`s interesting about that, though, is that so many of the headlines say this, you know. Did sheriff order killing to protect
cars? And I heard the sheriff when he was extemporaneously making comments not knowing that the camera was rolling in the back seat and capturing all
of these comment, he actually said that Dial tried to kill his guys. I mean, he said that he gave this order because he was thinking that the
driver of that truck and trailer was ramming his officers so many times, that he had a death wish for the officers. So why is it that the
suggestion from the lawsuit is that he was only trying to protect vehicles and not the people who were driving those vehicles, fellow officers.
HARTUNG: Well, you hear the dispatcher by way of the sheriff say do not ram those cars. Do not ram those cars. Take him out by any means
necessary. And I think this is what will be discussed in court.
Ashleigh, you got this evidence, this video evidence that someone will be able to make a determination. What was the intent here by the driver of
the vehicle, by the officers in theirs?
This was a 30-minute pursuit. And I really appreciate how much you allowed of this to be shown on television because I think it`s so important to the
context of it. But this was a longer pursuit. And it`s unclear if the officers involved in this pursuit in White County, if they knew who or why
they were pursuing this driver as it was discovered once Michael Dial`s body was dead on the side of the road. He was unarmed. But you do raise a
fair question.
[19:10:17] BANFIELD: You know what? I`m glad you mentioned that. Kaylee, I`m glad you mentioned that. I`m only interrupting because it now dawns on
me that they may have known this guy in advance. They may have known exactly who this guy was because on that hidden body cam, again, it is not
hidden, but the sheriff doesn`t know the camera is recording him as he was making these the comments.
He said something about the guy, the old boy who lives in the trailer that I had to whoop and had trouble with at the jail. Let me run this moment
that the sheriff makes these mentions after, after those damning comments that many people have seized upon where he said I said take him out, damn.
I don`t give a you know what. Have a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told him to take him out. I don`t give a shut. I said don`t ram him, shoot him. He is going to tear my cars up. I got two
cars tore up again. That old boy they whooped, me and John had that trouble at the jail. That`s him. He tore our cars all to hell. He tried
to kill him. I`m telling you are saved a city car. He is on the back window with that truck.
Right now we don`t know if Charlie shot him or Adam, but it looks like Adam shot him. Adam took it hard. He talks that big shut and now he`s in the
big leagues. If he can`t take it, he needs to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You know what, Kayee, there are so many pieces of information in that short clip of audio. Again, sheriff doesn`t know he is being
recorded. So this you would think is the truest form when someone doesn`t know the camera is rolling.
Number one he said that line. Dial, he tried to kill him. Tried to kill my fellow officers. Number two, he says he doesn`t know if Charlie or
Adam, and I think he is referring to the two officers whose names are Adam West and Charlie Simms. He doesn`t know who did the shooting. And he also
refers to one of those officers taking it real hard.
And actually at one point, he talks about that officer taking it so hard, Adam West, that he needs to toughen up if he is going to be in this
business. At which point he also goes on to say that other damning line. I live for this you know what, shit. I live for this. It`s like the
adrenaline rush.
So again, taken in context, are more people understanding how all of these lines were delivered on say six hours of tape or are they just here in the
headlines and suggesting it`s all about protecting cars?
HARTUNG: I think it should be made clear in context when you hear the sheriff say he thrives on this. I do believe he is referring to the car
chase, to the pursuit, not to the death of Michael Dial.
But I think there is something we also need to unpack from that audio you played. It`s when the sheriff refers to having knowledge of the suspect
who has just been shot and killed.
Now Michael Dial was not a model citizen by any means. I have his rap sheet right here. It`s extensive. But the vast majority of these crimes
are a result of him behind the wheel, a DUI and then driving on a suspended license after that DUI.
But from, again, this dash cam footage and this body cam footage that we obtained, it`s clear when the officers first arrive on the scene and they
bring Michael Dial`s body out that was pickup truck that is wrecked on the side of the road, they believe him to be someone else. His identity was
initially mistaken by officers on the scene as another familiar criminal in the area who I`m told looked similar to Michael Dial.
So let`s be clear, when we do hear the sheriff make reference to the suspect, it had not yet been determined that the man whose body was being
airlifted to the hospital was in fact Michael Dial.
BANFIELD: Wow. That are is extraordinary, Kaylee. Great reporting. That makes a big difference I think for those officers if they think they have
got one guy and who knows what the other guy was like or how dangerous that other guy was and they ended up with the guy they had, Michael Dial.
Hold that thought for a minute. I want to bring in, if I can, former Arizona police officer Brandon Tatum. He is joining us now on the phone.
And defense attorney and CNN and HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson.
All right. First to you, Brandon. I want to read something from the widow, Sue. While Joey listens is as well. She says at no point after
turning on to highway 111 did Dial pose a threat to any members of the public. In fact, as the dash cam video indicates, Mr. Dial was in
reasonable control of his vehicle.
And I will ask our producers to roll some of that video showing what kind of control Mr. Dial seemed to be in to the naked eye and ask to you comment
on this, Brandon.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
[19:15:13] BANFIELD: Sure doesn`t look like he is in control of the vehicle other than the moment he tried to ram those officers.
Brandon, are you there? Can you hear me, OK?
BRANDON TATUM, FORMER ARIZONA POLICE OFFICER (on the phone): I`m here. I`m sorry.
BANFIELD: So no. I just want - like I want you to just sort of narrate this for me because he is ramming almost every one of the patrol cars in
the picture. And yet the lawsuit from the widow said he is in complete control and not posing a danger to the public.
TATUM: Yes. I mean, of course. If she plans to win the lawsuit, she is going to have make certain statements that indicates that he is somehow
innocent or he is not at fault at any point. But obviously we have seen it. The sheriff, although, he had some comments that may have been viewed
as negative for some people. He said that the guy had run over some patrol cars and police officers going to the hospital and some of them injured.
He continuously rammed police cars and did not stop. I think that I don`t understand what control she said he has.
BANFIELD: Well, Joey, jump in. Jump in if you can, Joey Jackson. I have 10 seconds. Honestly, does she have --?
JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: I don`t want to interrupt him at all. The issue to me is whether or not a life should have been taken. It`s not
about him being in control or not in control of the car. It`s about whether he post an immediate threat and someone was going to die. If no
one was going to die, he shouldn`t have been ordered killed, period.
BANFIELD: I wish I had more time. I have to wrap it there. The story is not over, though.
My thanks to both of you.
This next story, a mother`s worst fears realized when an 8-year-old daughter disappears with a stranger they met while shopping.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wanted her to buy these really tall shoes that were women shoes and I told him no. I said they are too high for her. I
wouldn`t even wear shoes that high. Maybe he was grooming her. I hope to God he doesn`t kill her or rape her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Sadly, that`s exactly what the prosecutor say Donald Smith did. Explosive new details from court, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:01] BANFIELD: What can you say about Donald Smith? A quick online search and you won`t find much of anything nice. He is accused of grabbing
a little girl named Cherish Periwinkle from a Walmart and then raping and torturing her and murdering her.
Police say they found the 8-year-old girl the day after she disappeared, half naked still wearing the same dress she wore at the Walmart. She was
under a tree in a creek a few miles away covered in ants. She was dead. She had been raped.
But this week, someone is going to have to come up with something nice to say about Donald Smith, especially his lawyers. Because opening statements
in his trial started today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA NELSON, FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: Cherish Periwinkle was 8-years- old. She weighed 67 pounds. Separated from her mother, her little sisters, from all she knew (INAUDIBLE). She spent the last petrifying
hours of her life with him.
He gagged her. He raped her. He sodomized her. And then he strangled her. After he killed her, he pulled her little lifeless body through the
woods, pushed it under the water, forced it under a tree and took asphalt, bricks and debris and weighted her down because he planned for no one to
find her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And just about the worst thing in the world for a defendant to see when he is on trial for murder is the mother of the dead child staring
you down from the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The man who started talking to you, do you see him here in the courtroom today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you point to him and describe where he is seat and what he is wearing today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is wearing a long sleeve blue shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the glasses on top of his head?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now is Janese Harris. She is a reporter for CNN affiliate WJXT. She is inside the courthouse. She has been covering this
all day.
And Janice, I want to play for our audience something from the opening statements where Donald Smith`s defense attorney gets up before the court
and it sure sounds to me like he doesn`t have much of a defense. But instead seems all too willing to blame the poof grieving mom for screwing
up the night her daughter died. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And although she will describe the strange, she ultimately entrusts to have watch over her children as creepy. She will
tell you that about 9:00 at night having shopped in the stores for almost two hours, she makes the decision to get into a white van with shuttered
windows, no proper seats, and place her children in that van.
She goes with a complete stranger to a Walmart over eight miles away. And she doesn`t flinch when cherish and you can city with your own eyes,
wanders off with this stranger. Not once. Not twice. Three to four times and she thinks nothing of it. The fact that this person claims I`m going
to go get cheeseburgers and cherish just wanders off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:50] BANFIELD: So it`s the mother`s fault that a man stole her, raped her, murdered her, left her in a creek.
Janese, is that all they have?
JANESE HARRIS, REPORTER, WJXT: Well, what`s interesting about this from the side of the defense is they had an opportunity to do a cross
examination of Rayne Periwinkle and something happened. Something very surprising happened. Donald Smith, the defendant told his team I do not
want to you do a cross examination of Rayne Periwinkle. The judge asked him to speak and he said I don`t want her to go through anything she
doesn`t have to go through.
But the state, they are the once that have all of this evidence as you just mentioned in some of those sound bytes and more that is going to come out
tomorrow through the autopsy report with the medical examiner`s office goes in to the court and testified and talks in very gruesome details about
Cherish Periwinkle`s autopsy, the way that she was raped and the way she was strangle and how she died.
BANFIELD: I`m going to play that in a moment. Do we have - I just want to let out viewers know. We have about a two or three second delay between us
so sometimes it`s a little weird and we talk over each other. And I apologize for that in an advance.
But I want to show some images of the arrest picture versus him in court. Because the side by side really shows the guy who was there that night at
the Walmart and next to the guy who cleaned up for court today. Let`s put the pictures up. This is the one who was hauled in that - I mean, I think
it was within hours, they hold in, Donald Smith and arrested them. They found the van and found so much of what people would call smoking gun
evidence. Video of him leaving the Walmart with Cherish Periwinkle and in the parking lot, the van. I mean, and then of course, that moment, that
(INAUDIBLE) moment where she just pointed him out in court.
I want to play if I can the biggest question. If they started the opening defense, it`s just so maddening to hear them blame the mother of a dead,
raped child. They asked Cherish`s mom why she would let this child go to McDonald`s with this relative stranger who they had actually know - she had
actually known now I think for a couple of hours. And this is how that played out in court. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, why did you feel OK to let Cherish walk to McDonald`s with the defendant?
RAYNE PERIWINKLE, MOTHER`S VICTIM: If he would have asked me if he could take her, I would have said no. Because McDonald`s is inside Walmart with
people around, I knew she would never leave my sight.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you known that they were going to leave the store, would you have let cherish leave the store with the defendant?
PERIWINKLE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he ever ask you can Cherish come with me to leave the store?
PERIWINKLE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you have ever let your child leave the store and leave the Walmart with this defendant?
PERIWINKLE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You thought they were going to get cheeseburgers?
PERIWINKLE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Janese, he prosecution even described this woman as naive. And the biggest curiosity I have is because it all comes down to the 12 people
who are listening. What did the jury seem to do when they saw this woman on the stand in tears admitting it was a Walmart that McDonald`s was
inside. There is people all around. I thought it was safe. What did the jury -- how was their reaction?
HARRIS: Well, one thing I want to note is that they actually pulled 300 potential jurors before they narrow it down to the jury that is in there
now. So they have kind of weeded out the people that respond emotionally when they were giving a preview during the jury selection as to what they
would expect when it comes to testimony. So the jurors that are in that court, they have been taking note. Very attentively listening to every
word, paying tension to everything that the state or the prosecution says. Paying attention to everything that she said as well, Mrs. Perrywinkle.
But they have been a very attentive group of jurors so far, not showing a lot of emotion, but they have been prepared.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Let me -- let me bring in Rachel Stockman, our -- the editor-in-chief of Law & Crime Network. Rachel, there`s
something, you know, that Jenese alluded to, at the beginning of this report, was the fact that after this poor grieving mother was on the stand,
being questioned by the prosecutor, that`s the friendly side of this case, you know, she`s -- the prosecutor`s on her side. Typically, what happens
is the defense goes in and rips apart anything that said under cross- examination. But with the jury not in the room, as Jenese reported, the one and only time we heard from Donald Smith, the defendant, is an answer
to whether he wanted to cross examine this mom. And again, the jury is not here, but this is what he said in court. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JULIE SCHLAX, DONALD SMITH`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My client has just indicated to me that he`s not pushing to cross-examine. Ms. Perrywinkle in
any fashion -- will be at an appropriate time.
JUDGE MALLORY COOPER: OK. Your attorneys tell me now that you wish for them not to do any cross-examination of this witness, is that correct?
DONALD SMITH, DEFENDANT: That`s correct.
COOPER: Do you understand there will not be another opportunity for them to cross-examine her, do you understand that?
SMITH: Completely.
COOPER: And you understand, of course, as I told the jury, you`re not -- you and your attorneys, you`re not required to do anything. You`re not
required to cross-examine any witness, do you understand that?
SMITH: Yes, Ma`am.
COOPER: And that`s clearly how you wish to proceed?
SMITH: I don`t want anything she doesn`t have to go through right now.
COOPER: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Rachel, I guess, I`m thinking why bother going to trial if you`re going to open by blaming this poor grieving mom for the death and
the rape of her daughter, and then, you`re going to just suggest -- outside the presence of the jury, so you don`t even get credit for being a nice guy
in the eyes of the jury that you don`t want to cross-examine her. Why it wasn`t this a plea?
RACHEL STOCKMAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, LAW & CRIME NETWORK: I have no idea. I think it wasn`t a plea, ultimately, because the death penalty is in the --
is on the table in this case. And Donald Smith and his attorney decided they`d rather take this to trial to try to avoid the death penalty than to
just admit any type of guilt. But I`m with you, Ashleigh. I found the defense attorney`s opening statements in which she tried to blame the mom
for this. Absolutely maddening. Listen, as parents, we`ve all made really bad mistakes, but you know what, you never deserve to have your 8-year-old
--
BANFIELD: No kidding.
STOCKMAN: -- abducted, raped --
BANFIELD: No kidding.
STOCKMAN: -- sodomized by this man. And for her to say this, I`m telling you, it`s not going to fly with the jurors. It`s not.
BANFIELD: So -- and I`m going to give a big disclaimer here. If you have kids in the room right now, I`m going to play a piece of evidence what the
prosecutors said to this jury who had already heard that opening that it`s somehow the mom`s fault, and it is the autopsy information on this little
girl. Big disclaimer, please get your children away from the T.V. set. This is not for ears under the age of 18. This is not for the squeamish,
but it is critical that the jury heard exactly what happened to this little girl and the condition she was left in. This is the prosecutor.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ATTY. MELISSA NELSON, PROSECUTOR: Her lips, nose, teeth and gums injured from smothering, from gagging. A hickey on her right breast from forceful
sucking. Traumatic injury to her genetalia, and I`m not going to mince words, you will hear her genetalia was destroyed, is the word that Doctor
Rao uses. From forceful rape and sodomy, semen in her vagina, in her rectum, and in her mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joey Jackson, her DNA was also found on his penis. How can he avoid the death penalty in this case?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN & HLN LEGAL ANALYST: You know what? He is going to have to beg and plead to that jury and use some type of --connect with them in
some way to say that it`s not warranted. This is a very compelling case against them, Ashleigh. I don`t see really how a jury overlooks this
considering this girl is 8 years old and you just heard what I just heard, the jury heard that, too.
BANFIELD: Yes, I heard him also suggesting the mother is to blame and that is not lost on anyone. We`ll continue to follow this case. We also have
some breaking news out of Colorado that I want to bring to you right now, where police have a suspect in the custody of the murder of this young
woman, Natalie Bollinger.
[19:35:00] But wait, it is not the person you might be thinking -- the person she took a restraining order out against right before she died.
It`s someone who said she hired him on craigslist to kill her.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:40:07] BANFIELD: It seemed like police had the guy. But that they were just letting him slip right through their fingers. A beautiful doe-
eyed teenager shows up dead in the field in Colorado just two weeks after filing a restraining order against a man she claimed was stalking her. But
police would not even call that guy a suspect. Days turned into weeks, weeks turned into a month, and the man was still out walking free. But
that man had plenty to say to cameras as they caught him leaving a police interview last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHAWN SCHWARTZ: I`ve been instructed not to speak to you all, but I got a few more fingers for you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, do you know what happened to her?
SCHWARTZ: No. Do you know who does?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tell me.
SCHWARTZ: How would I know? What happened to Natalie? What do you guys know? All I know is from Facebook Messenger. And I hate Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did Facebook Messenger say?
SCHWARTZ: It doesn`t matter. You need to get a hold of the police and talk to them. Now, if you guys would like to, you can go contact the
Broomfield Police Department and you can ask them whatever information that you feel is pertinent. However, my (INAUDIBLE) rights have been violated
for the last week and you guys are seriously all up in my bubble and freaking me out. You`re seriously giving me a panic attack. Well done,
sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELDZ: But even with all of those strange comments, police did not arrest Shawn Schwartz, that man talking to the cameras who had the
restraining order taken out on him. But they did arrest somebody else, and now, they have charged that somebody else with the murder of Natalie
Bollinger.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF MICHAEL MCINTOSH, ADAMS COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: We were able to develop and identify Joseph Lopez, date of birth, 6/6 of `95. Just last
night, Joseph was arrested for the murder of Natalie Bollinger and he is now in the Adams County Sheriff`s Office and the formal charges will be
coming forth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, nobody saw this coming. And now, there are more questions than answers as to how this young woman was targeted, how she was taken,
and how she was killed.
With me now, Randy Corporon, host of 710 KNUS in Denver. Randy, how did they end up finding this Joseph Lopez, 22 years old? What`s the
connection?
RANDY CORPORON, HOST, 710 KNUS: You know, Ashleigh, I listened to the entire police conference and it sounds like they combed through just
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of text messages and social media. And they located this Joseph Lopez by connecting them to over 100 texts that he
exchanged with Natalie.
BANFIELD: So, what is all this weird business that`s now coming out about her going on Facebook and soliciting someone as a hitman and she would be
the target of the hit. Make sense of this for me.
CORPORON: Yes, according to the police affidavit, Lopez told the cops that, Ashleigh -- or, I`m sorry, Natalie made a request on Craigslist for a
hitman to come and kill her. And so, Lopez responded that he was an experienced hitman and went and met with Natalie.
BANFIELD: It`s -- it is just sort of a really bizarre sequence of events, but you know, he is -- he is now facing suspicion of first-degree murder.
Max penalty is death, he`s being held without bond.
I want to bring in Misti Janda, she`s a former co-worker and friend of this man, Joseph Lopez. She joins me from Denver. Misti, what`s your reaction
to the arrest of your former friend?
MISTI JANDA, FORMER CO-WORKER AND FRIEND OF SUSPECT (via telephone): Disbelief. Nobody really expected him to do anything like this or be
capable of anything like this. He was really kind, and caring, and nice, and so, it`s disbelief more than anything else.
BANFIELD: So, you guys, as I understand, worked at Domino`s Pizza together. You hung out after work almost every day. And then, you hear
this. Do you think they have the wrong guy?
JANDA: Honestly, I can`t really, like, say. I mean, based off of everything that has come out, it`s kind of goes to show that I didn`t
really know him like I thought I did because I didn`t know anything about the high school stuff or anything, so I can`t say. I mean, he admitted to
it, so --
BANFIELD: I mean, it is odd, he -- in the police affidavit, he has and -- he has admitted to it and the Adams` county sheriff said he is the lone
suspect in this case. Have a listen to what Sheriff Michael McIntosh had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTOSH: We don`t -- at this point, to my knowledge, we don`t have any other persons of interest in this case. We believe that from what we
currently see that we have the lone suspect in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:45:07] BANFIELD: I want to bring in Joey Jackson. Joey, the rush to judgment is always that the strange guy must be the guy. If this isn`t a
lesson in the best defense is necessary in this country, I bring you Shawn Schwartz, that strange man who she took a restraining order out against
just weeks before she was found dead in the field, and apparently, this all happened.
JACKSON: That is so well-stated. There it was and I could recall and I was with you on the show and we were talking about Mr. Schwartz and that
interview that you played and the protective order against him. And so, certainly, he was a person of suspicion, but then lo and behold, then you
have to give credit to the police here who combed through the social media imprint here, looked through her phone, and that Schwartz there who all
indications behave was potentially him.
But now, would all cases turn on, Ashleigh, facts and evidence. And apparently, from the facts and evidence, it led to Lopez and he essentially
said, it was me and apparently there are texts and other information to back it up. The next issue becomes connecting the actual weapon to her
murder.
BANFIELD: Over 100 text messages. But there you go, guys, best defense, there is a reason for it. It`s not always as it appears. Joey, thank you.
Missy, thank you. Randy, thank you as well.
The video was absolutely shocking, an armed robber pistol-whipping a clerk and her adult son with a 4-year-old grandson ducking for cover. Well, now,
they`ve made an arrest, and it`s this man. Why do you suppose he has this look in the mug shot? You`ll find out, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:51:07] BANFIELD: We have an update tonight on that clerk and her son and her grandson, who were pistol-whipped during a violent robbery at a
convenience store in North Carolina that sent a 4-year-old child ducking for cover. You can see the guy walking to the store hood up, wearing a
brown jacket, he approaches the registers, stands next to the man at the counter. And then, pulls out a gun. Grabs the man around the neck and
points that gun squarely at his head. That`s mom across the counter, by the way. He then points it at mom across the counter. From another angle,
you can see the suspect waving the gun erratically back and forth at the mom, at her son, pistol-whipping the son, knocking him off of his feet. He
then goes and grabs that mom, who`s the clerk, and she pulls the grandson back to try to protect that little child. Watch this. Tries to get him
out of the way of danger. That`s when the grown son runs out of the store with a phone and dials for help. The clerk then says the robber seemed
absolutely desperate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As soon as he walked in, I had an eerie feeling about the whole thing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He aimed the gun at my grandson, said he`d kill him. He kept telling my son, I want the money. I want the money. My son said,
I don`t work here. He had no remorse, no concern for anything or anybody, and that`s scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: But it only got worse, actually. You can see the gunman hovering over her, she`s fumbling for the key to the register. She drops
it, and he smacks her across the side of the head with the gun, but he still can`t get into the register. So, instead, he starts just grabbing
what he can, cigars, pushing past that clerk, and running to the waiting getaway car, of course. Police believe that car itself was stolen during a
violent carjacking just one day before what you saw just play out. And the victim of that carjacking was left with this, a fractured bone in his face
and a serious black eye.
There is some good news on this tonight. And that is that police think they know who did this, this violent pistol-whipping suspect, and we have
his mug shot. Feast your eyes on Deone Brice. No stranger to the law. Maybe that`s why he knows a thing or two about posing for a mug shot. He`s
reportedly already been in jail for violating rules of his probation, for allegedly picking up an elementary school student at the bus stop a few
weeks before the robbery, which you can`t do if you`re a registered sex offender. Also in custody tonight, his alleged getaway driver. And
another lovely mug shot, Justin Bingham. Both men now being held on $500,000 bond.
So, you know those fancy cars that you can start remotely? Jump off the mug shot, this is something different. Never thought about how easy it
would be to steal one of those remotely-started cars? But without the key, you can`t start it again. "ONE MORE THING", straight ahead. The guy who
stole the car and couldn`t start it again. What his solution was.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Just got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. A Minnesota man facing some charges after allegedly stealing a car and then calling the
car`s owner when he couldn`t get it to start again. Still with me? The police say Edward Leroy Wilson stole the car from a Wal-Mart parking lot
after its owner remotely started the car while she was shopping. But when she walked out, the car was gone. Only took him a couple of hours to
figure out he couldn`t restart the car without the keys, so he figured out a way to call her and then tried to tell her some story about how he`s
working on her car and needed her to help him start the car, so he could return it like she hadn`t noticed her car was stolen from the parking lot.
He goes on to give her an address where he was, where she could come and help him, and instead, it was the police who showed up and, hence, you get
this mug shot of what looks like a sad guy who got caught. America`s dumbest criminals, hello?
See you right back here tomorrow night 6:00 Eastern. And now, you can listen to our show any time. You can download our Podcast on Apple
Podcasts, iHeart Radio, Stitcher, Tune In, or wherever you get your Podcasts for your CRIME & JUSTICE fix. Thanks for watching, everyone.
Stay tuned, "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.
END
