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South Africa: Police Raid Home Of Controversial Jacob Zuma Allies; Oxfam Denies Covering Up Workers Sexual Misconduct; Samaritan Aviation Saves Lives In Papua New Guinea. Aired 2-3a ET
Aired February 14, 2018 - 02:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[02:00:00] JOHN VAUSE, CNN, HOST: This is CNN Newsroom live from Los Angeles ahead this hour.
ISHA SESAY, CNN, HOST: Have years of scandal finally caught up with Jacob Zuma, as South Africa's ruling party demands the President's resignation. So far, he's refused to go to.
VAUSE: Benjamin Netanyahu maybe the first sitting Israeli Prime Minister to be indicted, after police say they have sufficient evidence, bringing charges in two corruption cases.
SESAY: Plus, life-saving missions in Papua, New Guinea -- wonders crusade fly the sick and injured to safety.
VAUSE: Hello and welcome to our viewers all around the world. It's great to have you with us for the third hour. I am John Vause.
SESAY: And I am Isha Sesay. Newsroom L.A. starts right now.
Well, a major change in South Africa's politics is nearing. Jacob Zuma's tumultuous presidency may be coming to an end after almost 9 years in office and hundreds of corruption allegations, but he's not going down without a fight.
VAUSE: Zuma's party has demanded his resignation and has refused his request for a three to six month transition period. Meantime, the opposition is calling for a no confidence vote, maybe in the next couple of days.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN STEENHUISEN, CHIEF DEMOCRATIC ALLIANCE: They can't continue with this confusion and indecision. It is starting to impact whether or not we're going to budget next week. Are we going to SONA? And the longer this indecision continues, the weaker it's making the President looks. It's time now for parliament to step in and does what the constitution expects us to do, if the country and its own party lost confidence in the President.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SESAY: Our CNN's David McKenzie joins us now on the phone from South Africa. So, David, the twists and turns and the drama surrounding Jacob Zuma, they continue. What is the latest?
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: Well, the latest is that the elite crime fighting unit is surrounding a compound in the leaky suburb of Johannesburg, which is owned and operated by the Gupta's, a kingpin, expat family that has very close ties to Jacob Zuma and his family. And that is a long time in coming, but hugely symbolic that this elite group is in that compound, gathered the document and should arresting suspects.
But at this stage, the spokesman is not saying exactly any more details about this, but it is a moment that is very significant on a day that many South African's hope the President will resign. And it shows that the pressure is just piling on, Isha.
SESAY: Yeah. You talk about the South African public -- I want to share with our viewers some recordings of South Africa's exit, if you will. How consumed is the South African public with this high-stakes political drama.
MCKENZIE: Well, many people are sitting and waiting, holding their breath, hoping to get an answer one way or another. The feeling, really, amongst the many members are tired of Jacob Zuma and all of his scandals and want to move on. But since the ANC has those meetings and eventually came up with the decision to record him, the board, really in Zuma's court.
Everybody will be waiting to see whether Zuma as the union builder (inaudible) will make some kind statement today, whether he resigns. In the past, when he's been cornered, he fights back. We'll have to wait and see what the President does, if he does dig in, and then it moves to parliament for that no confidence vote that the opposition was talking about earlier in the program.
SESAY: And that opposition vote called or tabled, if you will by the EFF, the Economic Freedom Fighters, led by Julius Malema, who was himself part of the ANC before he got booted out some years ago. That is originally scheduled for, I believe February 22nd, trying to get that moved up. Where do we stand on that? What's the likelihood of that happening?
Also, there are reports that the ANC could table their own vote of no- confidence. Give us some clarity about the next steps in if this goes to parliament.
[02:05:00] MCKENZIE: Well, at this stage, I think the ANC is hoping that Zuma will resign, because if he doesn't it will turn the party to further chaos, because they say it's a very difficult decision whether they have to go along with the no-confidence vote brought by the opposition, something that will be really distasteful for many ANC members, or they try somehow (inaudible) and bring that no confidence vote closer up.
But, you know, besides the mechanics of all of this, this is a truly significant moment in South Africa, where the ANC has recalled the President of the country Drove the quarter, the President of the country and that there is any question whether he will do it or not is truly significant because in the past, when recalled, members have just heeded the call of the ruling party.
So that there is a question yet because of the character of Jacob Zuma and how he's managed to survive through all these scandals and court cases over the years. This is a moment for Jacob Zuma, calling to the ANC at least, to do the right thing, whether he does or not, all eyes are on the U.N. Building, which we are looking at right now as we approach it.
SESAY: Dramatic hours ahead for South Africa and a moment that will have huge ramifications for the country. But the expected course of action is that, eventually, Zuma will exit stage left, if you will. Cyril Ramaphosa will become the new President of South Africa and he'll take centre stage.
As he does so, David, he basically takes on a massive to-do-list, high unemployment, weak economic growth, low investor confidence, and I mean where to start. That's the question for Cyril Ramaphosa.
MCKENZIE: He has a huge amount of work to do, and it's too early to say whether how he will -- what sort of mandate will he have when he comes in. Because if Jacob Zuma really decides to dig in, and of course, we can reposition Cyril Ramaphosa, a man who was expected by many to be the President after Nelson Mandela but it went in a different direction.
Certainly, the state has shown that just maybe, Cyril Ramaphosa's moment, former union organizer, chief negotiator, when South Africa transitions into democracy, he'll have to bring all his negotiating skills to try and get South Africa working again.
But it's still too early to tell what sort of political position he'll, when and if Jacob Zuma leaves.
SESAY: Yeah, absolutely. David McKenzie approaching the Union Building when we know that Jacob Zuma will speak shortly, as I assure you in the coming hours, and really give us some indication of what he plans to do next in the face of this recall by the ANC. David McKenzie, very much appreciate it. We will check in with you again. Thank you.
VAUSE: Well, after a month-long investigation, Israeli police say there is now sufficient evidence to indict Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on criminal charges in two corruption cases. He is accused of fraud, bribery, and breach of trust. In a 12-minute long televised interview, Netanyahu tried to place down the seriousness of the charges and promised he'd stay in the job.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJANIM NETANYAHU, ISRAEL, PRIME MINISTER: During my time as Prime Minister, great pressures have been placed to open no fewer than 15 checks and investigations against me with the aim of toppling me from power. All began with explosive headlines, live broadcasts, some with thunderous police recommendations, just like this evening.
All these attempts without exception will end without anything. (END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So now, it's up to the Attorney General to decide if the Prime Minister will be formally charged. For the very latest, Ian Lee is with his live from Jerusalem. So, Ian, in that national address, the Israeli Prime Minister tried to make out as if this was no big deal, he wasn't going anywhere. It was business as usual. He was going to stay in the job.
But that choice will end up being his even from a legal position or from a political position.
IAN LEE, CNN, CORRESPONDENT: Right, John. We've been hearing that from the Prime Minister all these months of this investigation has been going on. There are really two tracks for getting to your question there, first, you have the legal track. This a case now goes to the Attorney General. The Attorney General will investigate the recommendation by the police and then decide whether or not to move forward with an indictment.
And if he decides no, then it's over with. If he decides, yes, then it goes to the court system. And even there, it could take many years before this case is resolved, going all the way up to the high court. Only then when the high court delivers its verdict if guilty, then the Prime Minister would be forced from office and could serve up to 10 years in jail according to legal analysts.
[02:10:00] Politically though, so far he seems to be doing all right. His coalition supporters have said they're going to standby him from this point. They are calling this a coup attempt by the opposition because they can't beat him at the ballot box. The opposition has obviously called for the Prime Minister to resign, but really, we will be watching this closely.
If the Prime Minister's support starts to wane, he has a lot of support right now. He has a strong base. But if that starts to wane, then you may see some of his coalition partners start to jump ship.
VAUSE: OK. Ian Lee there, keeping an eye on what's happening and what's in store for the Israeli Prime Minister. Ian, thank you. Raoul Woodliff is a Reporter with the Times of Israel. He joins us now also in Jerusalem. Thanks for being with us. This is the beginning of the process. It's certainly not the end, makes the decision by the Attorney General. He's been described as this kipper- wearing lawyer. He's bashful.
But his past would suggest that he's a stickler for the law.
RAOUL WOODLIFF, TIMES, REPORTER: Absolutely. He's had a number of high profile positions in the Israeli legal system, that there have been a number of questions raised over the last year, during these investigations of his connections and his alliance to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Before serving as Attorney General, he served as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Cabinet Secretary, one of the highest profile positions and closest positions to Netanyahu, in which he was tasked with carrying out the Prime Minister's agenda. Legal sources say that he is a steady set of hands, and despite his
close connection to Netanyahu will not be swayed based on that. They will go ahead according to what's necessary.
VAUSE: Every Israeli Prime Minister since the mid 90s has been on the focus on some kind of criminal investigation. Netanyahu could be the first to face formal charges whilst in office. Clearly, investigators or everybody) bodies as being of the focus of some kind of criminal investigation are aware of the consequences of what they're doing.
What does it say about the cases being presented now and the level of evidence that they must have?
WOODLIFF: Well, you're very right. These investigations have gone on for a long time. In fact, a year ago today, the police commissioner said they were nearing an end, but we've understood that particularly on the instructions the Attorney General took a long time to very carefully check every source, to go over every specific witness testimony that was given, and they said there were over 80 witnesses that were interviewed, in conjunction with a number of international organizations.
But some of those witnesses were outside of Israel and investigators were forced to travel abroad in order to interview them. But you're absolutely right. The allegations are serious and the consequences could be very serious. I think based on the information, the police recommendations released last night, and the details document specifying each and every charge brought to the Prime Minister, the police certainly believed that they have collected enough evidence to bring the Prime Minister to trial.
And now, it'll be absolutely be the Attorney General to decide whether or not those charges could hold up in court.
VAUSE: Netanyahu and his wife, Sarah, being controversial with their lavish spending and the lifestyle they've had since he's become the Prime Minister. Assuming Netanyahu is either not charged or is charged and found not guilty, politically, is it possible for him to survive this?
WOODLIFF: Well, legally it's certainly possible. According to Israeli law, the Prime Minister would not have to stand down even when found guilty. Politically at the moment, it seems like he is on steady ground. His coalition partners don't want to go to elections. Elections would not serve them at the moment.
They would likely receive fewer seats in the parliament than they had previously. They might also be seen as being the party to bring down the right wing government. A lot depends on how the perceives these allegations. Up until now, up until the recommendations were released yesterday, it was largely believed that most of these allegations don't (inaudible) to the Prime Minister and potentially in return he helps organize a visa.
[02:15:00] But the allegations released yesterday suggest a much more serious corruption and bribery. For example, a suggestion that the Prime Minister pushed a change or to amend the tax laws in order to help his billionaire benefactors, if the public sees or feels that this is something beyond the pale, and public support for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his government starts to wane, then it is likely that his coalition partners support will also wane.
VAUSE: Obviously, some stories ahead, politically and legally for the country and for the Prime Minister there. I guess we'll just have to wait and see and find out what happens. But we very much appreciate you for being with us for the background and the context, and an analysis. Thank you.
WOODLIFF: Thank you very much.
SESAY: Quick break here. Still to come, another shift in the ever- changing White House explanation in the scandal involving a former reporter, what the FBI Director told Congress that blew their previous story right out of the water.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: The White House is continuing to change its story about the domestic abuse allegations against former aide, Rob Porter. White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders now blames the Personnel Security Office for failing to act.
SESAY: She and other White House officials blame the FBI for not finishing its background check on Porter. That story unraveled on Tuesday when FBI Director Christopher Wray said the bureau repeatedly briefed the White House last year on claims that Porter had abused his two ex-wives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: The FBI submitted a partial report on the investigation in question in March, and then a completed background investigation in late July, that is soon thereafter, we received a request for follow-up inquiry, and we did the follow-up and provided that information in November and that we administratively closed the file in January.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Now for more on this, Peter Matthews, he is Professor of Political Science at Cyprus College. Michael Genovese is the President of the Global Policy Institute at Loyola Marymount University. Thank you for coming in. OK, so keep in mind what the FBI Director says it will make is on Tuesday morning, hours after that, White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders, and she gave her version of events regarding Rob Porter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As I said and I'm going to repeat what I said earlier, we learned of the situation involving Rob Porter last Tuesday evening. Within 24 hours, his resignation had been accepted and announced. We announced the transition was to happen, and within hours it did. In terms of timeline, I don't have anything else to add.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[02:20:00] VAUSE: So, Michael, someone here is not telling the truth. And for my money, it's the FBI Director.
MICHAEL GENOVESE, PRESIDENT OF THE GLOBAL POLICY INSTITUTE AT LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIVERSITY: You know Trump's own appointment, Chris Wray. They busted the White House and are taking stories. It shouldn't surprise us because this is what they been doing. This 24/7 cycle of high drama, they keep tripping over their own high drama, and just look at the turn over the top of the administration.
If you look at George W. Bush at this stage, no one left the administration. Obama, one person, Trump seven, so you've got this combination of inexperience and a revolving door, and an administration that doesn't really put a high priority on the truth, and this is what you get. It made them look terrible to me.
VAUSE: In comparison throughout the day, when they just looked awful, Sarah Sanders did try to explain why the White House version of events is so different to the FBI's version. Here is what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: The White House Personnel Security Office, staffed by career officials received information last year and what they considered to be the final background investigation report in November, but they had not made a final recommendation for adjudication to the White House because the process was still ongoing when Porter resigned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: So, Peter, when it doubt, blame a good old career official, a tradition as old as politics itself. Even if that is true, who is going to believe at this point?
PETER MATTHEWS, POLITICAL SCIENCE AT CYPRUS COLLEGE, PROFESSOR: It's such an incompetent White House, too. Everything that Michael said was true, but on top of that, the inexperience shows clearly, not just domestic and foreign policy but in the White House policy. It's just another manifestation of Trump-ism.
VAUSE: It is Trump-ism on the one end, but it's also Kelly-ism. A lot of this is going to the White House Chief of Staff, John Kelly, how he has handled this from the beginning. He must have known about these allegations long before he is admitted to -- essentially this is again Sarah Sanders their on basically the way John Kelly has handled everything, what he knew and when he knew it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is the White House still maintaining that John Kelly really had no idea about these allegations of domestic abuse?
SANDERS: I can only give you the best information that I have and that's my understanding.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In July, when the FBI (inaudible) are you telling us that no senior staff, nobody in your senior staff in the West Wing was involved in that decision to tell them to see if they can get more information.
SANDERS: Again, not that I'm aware of, I can't say with 100 percent certainty, but not that I'm aware of any conversations between those individuals.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
VAUSE: Add to that, when the Wall Street Journal asked John Kelly if this self-inflicted crisis could have been handled better. Kelly answered no, it was all done right. So normally, it's the President who is the source of upheaval and drama. John Kelly is a person who is going to calm everything down. He is the adult in the room. That is not playing out.
GENOVESE: We all expected him to come in and be the grown up in the room, to bring some chaos, some order to the chaos, and even some order to the President which was a big task. It turns out that he's an enabler. He is a true believer. He is promoting Trump-ism and he is feeding the very worst aspects of the term personality. Instead of controlling them, he is basically putting fuel on the fire.
MATTHEWS: There is something else I see here and that is total male chauvinism that comes out among these staffers. When he says that you know allegations, they're mere allegations, and he tries to praise Porter for exemplary employee career. He looks at the person's talent during his employment and his character's, his personality on what he's done with women.
To me, it's an epitome of chauvinism.
VAUSE: To Michael's point, because (inaudible) because Porter was mildly competent, which is why Kelly apparently defended him. Amid all this controversy, the Intelligence Committee on Capitol Hill, before the Senate Intelligence Committee, they all insisted that measures were all being taken right now to try and prevent Russia from meddling in the midterm elections in November, but listen to this exchange.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're taking a lot of specific efforts to blunt - not as specifically directed by the President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specific Presidential direction to take steps to disrupt these activities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't that I've been explicitly directed to blunt or to actively stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP) VAUSE: Peter, I don't know why, but that answer surprised me. I probably shouldn't have been. But I was able to have the President not involved in directing the intelligence chief's to take any action just seemed golf-smacking in some ways.
[02:25:00] MATTHEWS: Incredible because he is the person in charge of security of this country. We believe in democracy that has to be not interfered by foreign sources. So whether or not it happened in 2016, he should be proactive in leading the government and saying this should never happen again. It compromises our whole democratic process.
So strong leadership should be coming from this man, but you can see him lawfully and wavering and not even giving direction to his own people. So be careful about this.
VAUSE: OK. Very quickly because there is some CNN reporting we have now about the payment of $130,000 to the adult film star, Stormy Daniels. She allegedly had an affair with Donald Trump several years ago. Last month, Trump's long time personal, Michael Cohen released a statement on her behalf. In part it said, rumors that I received hush money from Donald Trump are completely false, but apparently they're not because sources told CNN the money was actually paid for to Daniels.
It came out off his own pocket. He wrote the check. Michael, how many lawyers do you know would shell out $130,000 for their billionaire client out of the goodness of their heart?
GENOVESE: Let's see. This is a story that is so beyond bizarre, that it is past the point of absurdity, and how humiliating this must be for everyone involved or should be. Why isn't the President humiliated? Because he's got all these accusations against him, and that's part of what Peter was saying about this character issue.
This is just normal business for those folks. For us, it would be outrageous for almost anyone. It would be outrageous behavior, and yet in this White House it's another Wednesday.
VAUSE: Well, in case anyone is curious, Stormy Daniels, she is taking her Make America Horny Again to Palm Beach in Florida in a strip club just blocks away, about four miles actually from the President's private club, the Mar-A-Lago. So there we go, keeping it classy in Florida.
MATTHEWS: Making money off of the situation.
(CROSSTALK)
MATTHEWS: Make money through politics to any story that comes up which is negative, just make money off of it.
VAUSE: Make it a positive.
MATTHEWS: The new normal, right?
VAUSE: Good to see you both. Thank you.
MATTHEWS: Thank you.
GENOVESE: Thank you.
VAUSE: A new normal, I hope not. It could be.
SESAY: All right. Jacob Zuma has survived hundreds of corruption allegations, but now his party is trying to show him the door.
VAUSE: Vienna athletes competing in the North Korean flag, they get a warm welcome on the ice, details from Pyeongchang, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN Newsroom, live from Los Angeles. I'm John Vause.
[02:30:00] SESAY: And I'm Isha Sesay with the headlines this hour. Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu denies any wrong doing in two corruption cases. On Tuesday, Israeli police said they had sufficient evidence to indict him on criminal charges. He is accused of fraud, bribery, and breach of trust. The Attorney General will ultimately decide whether or not to formally charge Mr. Netanyahu.
VAUSE: The leaders of U.S. Intelligence community have warned Russia is actively working to undermine this year's midterm election. Excuse me. They testified Tuesday before Senate committee. The Director of National Intelligence says Russia will continue using propaganda and social media to try to influence the votes.
SESAY: South Africa's President Jacob Zuma could face a no confidence vote in the coming days if he does not step down. His party demanded his resignation on Tuesday. But for now, Zuma is standing firm and refusing to go. He's facing hundreds of corruption allegations all of which he denied.
VAUSE: Motorcade to the Olympic Games in Pyeongchang. Now, the North Korean pair skater got a very warm welcome when they took to the very cold ice.
SESAY: Ryom Tae-ok and Kim Ju-sik are the only North Korean athletes who qualified for the games on merit.
VAUSE: Now, for more the rest of the events, Amanda Davies joins us from Pyeongchang. How is the sandwich? Did you get another one?
AMANDA DAVIES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It was -- it wasn't a sandwich there. He was really nice. It was a vegetable curry. Highly recommended --
VAUSE: Oh, I like a nice curry on a cold day. Lovely.
DAVIES: Yes. It was really good. I think -- I think they've realized that cold hungry truth need large bowls of Sochi food but it was really, really tasty. You would think (INAUDIBLE) though is having a very big party lunch today because he has had a pretty good stay having had snowboarding events dominated by the younger generations about so far here in Pyeongchang today. White really stepped up and state his name. But the older folks amongst us securing a record third top fight crown. He's 31 years of age. He was in the silver medal spot going into his last run but (INAUDIBLE) inspired by the NASA space program. He put in a performance from another planet. One he described after as his best ever a faultless 97. 75 to reclaim the title he lost in Sochi four years ago. He had a pretty long way after he finish to discover his score but when it came despite all that experienced behind him, there were tears and celebrations with the U.S. band. It was also the USA's hundredth Olympic gold medal overall. The U.S. actually will hoping for at least two golds today but they've got to wait to see what happens with the other events after the third alpine competition in four days was cancelled. They seem pretty calm here but after the men's down here and women's giant ladder events have moved from Sunday and Monday. Today, it's been the women's (INAUDIBLE) because of the high winds after the alpine center, so Mikaela Shiffrin's Olympic campaign has been delayed once again. We've also heard that the start of the Nordic combines normal hill competition has also been delayed as well. But the IOC very keen to play down in sense by completing the events will be a problem of course with still really into the early stages of this games. So there have been reports also that high winds down at the coastal venues have been pretty serious with the superstar close because of roof damaged but it hasn't affected the figure skating pairs of which is well underway as you said. It was the North Korean pair of Ryom Tae-ok and Kim Ju-sik who made their long awaited debut in front of a packed arena. They've got a fantastic reception, not only from the North Korean cheerleaders who are getting to know pretty well. But also from the South Korean crowd. A lot of people with the unification flags. They're after to the pair thanks their supporters having posted a personal best to make it through to tomorrows pre- skate. You would think it's quite a tough ass for those two to medal tomorrow. But in terms of the medal table as things stands four events today still to be decided. It's Germany still leading the way. They've got five golds. The Dutch and the USA have four golds each. The USA is fourth of course with that impressive performance from (INAUDIBLE) a little bit earlier, John.
VAUSE: Yes. Give me that call it's been there. How smart is Vladimir Putin for bringing the Winter Olympics at a beach side resort four years ago (INAUDIBLE) it turns out it was a good move. Good to see you, Amanda.
SESAY: All right. Let's go now and send you back to South Africa now where President Jacob Zuma is facing recall his party is demanding that he resign right now. Jacob Zuma standing his ground. We are waiting a statement from South Africa's President at the Union Building in Pretoria a short time from now. But ahead of that, let's speak to (INAUDIBLE) she's a South African commentator and talk show host as she joins us now live from Johannesburg.
[02:35:05] Really, my friend, good to see you. So Julius Malema, one time ANC Youth leader before being expelled from the party. Now, leader of the opposition EFF, the Economic Freedom Fighters has said this move by the ANC is really about factionalism. It's about corruption. It's not about the betterment of life of South Africans. How do you see it? Is there any truth to that statement?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, there is some truth to that statement. It's not entirely the whole picture. The pitch as a matter of fact is that Jacob Zuma is a spent force. Right now, he's working a large to perform any government duties because he's been delegitimize but words truly is absolutely correct is that calls for Zuma to step down has been happening for at least three years and we took to the streets. The media had been exposed in this corruption and yet the ANC rallied around him. So (INAUDIBLE) what has change? It's still the Jacob Zuma who's publicly was official. It's still the Zuma whose morality was questioned, who wasn't fit for office and this is not just criticism but it is the judgment of the constitutional accord, So Julius is right. What has change? Why is the ANC now calling for him to step down? Obviously, the big event of last year December where there was new leadership. What is new is possible because one of the old guard is still there. That shifted the playing field. (INAUDIBLE) is in charge. Those who supported Zuma know that unless they read the writing on the wall and support their new leader then their careers are over. So there is an element of being self-serving in all of this, Isha.
SESAY: You know, I'm still trying to square the circle of hearing senior leaders within the ANC say things like, the president has done nothing wrong, you know, as a kind of we're ousting him but he hasn't done anything wrong. I mean what is that? Help our viewers understand the language, the optics here, the rhetoric.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. So the person who said that was the Secretary General of the ANC here that presents at the party. I think he's very in act. I think he was most inarticulate and contradicted himself. In fact, the finance minister spoke to your colleague Richard Quest last night and also contradicted some of what that leader that you're referring to was safe. Now, Isha, this is what you need to understand. Jacob Zuma is not the only person who is facing corruption charges who's being accused of wrongdoing, who's being accused of abusing state caucus. That's important to understand. The very same senior leader that you're talking about, his name is (INAUDIBLE) right now, law enforcement is raiding some of Zuma's business partners, people who benefitted from all his corruption. His name also appears in all those corruptions -- in all that corruptions. So he's unlikely to turn around and say, Jacob Zuma did something wrong because he too is being questioned in relation to some of the corruption and the looting, and that's why perhaps, Isha, it's been very difficult to get rid of Zuma because he's not the only one who seems to have or is suspected of trans gracing the law. People like (INAUDIBLE) themselves and many other ANC -- senior ANC leaders are also being questioned, so they're unlikely to say Zuma has done something wrong when they themselves are suspected of wrongdoing.
SESAY: Fascinating insight there. So with that, you know, with that being the backdrop, you know, the expectation is that Cyril Ramaphosa will eventually become President of South Africa and then he takes over -- he already has taken over the ANC but then he's president of the nation. He's head of a divided faction ANC within massive to-do- list. I mean what is the road ahead look like for Ramaphosa Cyril? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, this balancing act has been going on since
he took the presidency of the ANC precisely because he didn't win by a wide margin. Commentators here are saying that he's betting his time. He's taking his time trying to win them over to persuade Zuma former supporters to come to his side. Isha, I will say that it's not a complicated thing to do because politicians are self-serving. They want to protect their own jobs and they will dense to the tune of whoever is in charge. We are seeing so many ministers including the one that I mentioned who spoke to Richard Quest. He has been a strong Zuma supporter. I nearly had a heart attack when I watch him on CNN last night saying that Zuma must go with demand that he goes by 10:00 A.M. this morning. I thought, what of all people you have supported him. You have enabled some of the state catcher. So it is not surprising in South African politics and in the ANCs history for people to start in this face something that contradicts a position that they've held for close to a decade. So I don't think Cyril Ramaphosa will have a difficult time getting those people. We're really seeing them changing their tune. He's not going to have a difficult time getting them to really follow his lead precisely because they're looking out for themselves. That is a superficial as it gets.
SESAY: Wow. These are interesting times, dramatic times in South Africa and really we could talk about this all night but we must leave it right here.
[02:40:00] Thank you so much for the great insight and context. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thanks, Isha.
VAUSE: Ok. Well, so we come here new revelations from a former officer and manager who says she won years ago the carter of sexual abuse among some of the agencies workers.
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SESAY: The British Government is warning aide agencies. They will lose public funding if they do not protect staff, volunteers, and the people they meant to help. Meanwhile, a whistleblower says a sexual abuse allegations against Oxfam staff was in Haiti and Chad. It's just the tip of the iceberg.
VAUSE: The former manager with the agency discussed the culture of sexual abuse among some of Oxfam's workers including allegations of women being forced into sex and exchange for aide. Oxfam says it regret not acting on those claims sooner (INAUDIBLE) spoke to the agencies executive director.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that Oxfam was -- would recover because these are a few people who have abused the power that they had and turned and abuse the very people they want to protect. But the majority, the thousands of Oxfam staff around the world are saving lives, are helping people who are fleeing, are giving food, and water in the most difficult places in South Sudan, in Chad, in Yemen, in Iraq. They are risking their lives every hour.
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SESAY: Well, Andrew McCabe is assistant professor at King's College in London. He's also an adviser at the Hear Their Cries, an organization fighting sexual exploitation. Andrew, thank you for being with us. So here we have red flags individuals coming forth to say years ago they've reported concerns about rumors of field staff abusing those that were meant to be helping and protecting and yet they realized perpetrators has kept moving through the system. Speak to me from your vantage point what this says about the culture of Oxfam's specifically and put it in context of the broader culture within the humanitarian aid community.
ANDREW MCCABE, ASSISTANT PROFESSOR AT KING'S COLLEGE: Clearly, I don't think Oxfam U.K. have understood the problem. They really haven't -- the fact that CEO even the slight as yesterday was still calling this incident a misdemeanor shows that they haven't understood what the government here in Britain has said that's a failure of moral leadership. What it says for the broader industries are very important question because this is not an Oxfam problem. It's not even a British problem. This is a worldwide problem across the industry. We've got to absolutely crackdown, respect people in communities, not treat people as disposable human beings.
SESAY: We're going to broaden this out. But I want to ask you about the U.K.'s charity commission launching a statutory inquiry into Oxfam. Do you think they'll turn more allegations of abuses and a cover-up within the organization?
MCCABE: I have no -- no doubt they will turn up more abuses. Whether it's a cover-up or a will full blind eye being turned, they will find one of those two things. They will find a complete federal governance on either sides from the trustees, executive board of all the way down, because this problem of sexual abuse of people aid has been going on for three decade.
And Oxfam should have like every other organization should have put in place the best in class human resources systems training, prevention, detection and prosecution mechanisms. The fact that Oxfam's do to this day haven't taken the dossier from Haiti, to the Haitian police, and to the Brussels and British police. Brussels because the man is a Belgian.
SESAY: Yes.
MACLEOD: British because Oxfam is based here, and possibly they have broken Belgium and U.K. extraterritorial child sex tourism law.
SESAY: So, Andrew, when you -- when you here the executive director who is speaking to Hala Gorani, say basically, they have taken steps, they have put in place measures to make sure this never happens again. Do you actually believe her, choosing that's actually true that they have taken the right steps?
MACLEOD: No, use that same statement and replay it 20 years ago, to the direct to it, 10 years ago. You can use we've been saying zero tolerance we're going take steps, we're going to track down. To be serious, the only indicator you need to see if the charity is being serious about this is are they prosecuting this staff who have crossed the line?
SESAY: I want to talk to you about the U.N. because you were there. You said that -- you know, you made a point that dissector as a whole is a magnet for dysfunction for people who are basically are depraved, they want to come on in abuse, the weak and the vulnerable. You have talked about the feeling with then, the U.N. Talk to me about as you see it the problem there, as do they exist, and the fact that the U.N doesn't have the mechanism that you've talked about. The mechanism for prosecution, detection, and prevention.
MACLEOD: The industry is a mechanism for the dysfunctional, but the industry is also a mechanism to the good and the great. Most aid work is a really trying to do the right and they're fantastic work around the world.
But because the system is a whole, hasn't had an effective filter in the human resources system. To weed out the dysfunction -- the dysfunction are coming is be crack down on pedophilic in the developed world. But predatory pedophiles are going to the developed being world to get access to children. And charity's methodology is to join a children's charity.
So, that puts all higher of the normal demand on charity to put the best systems in place. To weigh it out during the human race all these prices, and to detect and (INAUDIBLE) good people to below the reasons. Now, the problem is on last 30 years, whistleblowers had being treated incredibly badly in the industry. As they haven't been listening to, it being drowned out.
And one of the problems that we have had and saying they protect the (INAUDIBLE) -- one of the problems that we have had is being this perception that the U.N. has immunity from prosecution. Last night on your program, I challenged the U.N. secretary-general to make a very clear statement that immunity will no longer apply to U.N. staff when it comes to sex crimes.
And immediately, the secretary-general replied on Twitter which is fantastic so the world will see. There will be no legal immunity for the U.N. staff accused of sex crimes. I congratulate this U.N. secretary general, the signal is now sent to him that every predatory pedophile on the world, the aid industry is not a soft target anymore. And we're going to come and get you.
SESAY: Andrew MacLeod, thank you so much for joining us. It's just so important to hear your voice here. And a remarkable moment the U.N. coming out and saying categorically, no more immunity, no immunity for people who face this kind of charges. Thank you, Andrew. Thank you very much.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN ANCHOR: Immensely, it's a lot of sense.
SESAY: It certainly does. VAUSE: We'll take a short break and when we come back, meet the man saving and changing live in Papua New Guinea, one flight at a time.
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[02:50:11] SESAY: Hello everyone, for desperate people in one province of Papua New Guinea, their lifesaver arrives by seaplane. Mark Palm, founded Samaritan Aviation to give nearly a half million people in the remote area access emergency medical care. Without Mark and his crew, a trip to the hospital can take after a week and that's Mark knew. The organization can get them there in just 45 minutes. Palm, says his mission is all about showing God's love and action.
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MARK PALM, CO-FOUNDER, SAMARITAN AVIATION: I also saw the needs, the lack of hope and access in the remote villagers, the dangers, and the suffering. After seeing and experiencing this place first hand, I realize they desperately needed help. They needed someone who could get to their remote villages and provide them with modern medical services. It was then that I realize I can be that person, I can make a difference.
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SESAY: Mark Palm, joins us now from San Diego California. Mark, thank you for being with us. So, halve of you to understand? How you round up in Papua New Guinea doing this work, what happened?
PALM: Yes, I've got an interesting story, my (INAUDIBLE) third- generation aviator and I'm kind of group as a young kid are planning on being a military pilot or -- and seeing the world. And it was -- it was during my youth, my father is a minister and he ran a homeless mission up in Northern California when I was a teenager and had a chance to actually -- to help people, to feed people, to clothes people who didn't have the things that I had.
And as a 16 year old, I had a chance for the Mexico, and build houses for people who didn't have a roof over their head. And it was fit, it was that experience and my passion for aviation. And during that trip to Mexico, I just felt a God just speak to me. I don't -- it's hard to explain. But, I just felt like I needed to use my passion for people and aviation in a remote area to share God's love.
SESAY: Yes.
PALM: And so, that's -- yes, that's kind of how it all began.
SESAY: That's going to how it happen.
PALM: Yes, and here I am.
SESAY: I mean, what would you -- hey, what -- I mean, having done over thousand flight to save countless numbers. What was your own life like? What have you given up to do this? PALM: You know, it was -- it's interesting because -- you know, in America, obviously, you know, the idea of American dreaming, and we have hospitals everywhere, we have access to things here that lot of the rest of the world doesn't have. And, but because -- you know, I kind of have this vision, this goal as a young man -- you know, it was -- it was from 16 on, that was my goal as how do I get over to a remote area.
And as a 19 year old, I had a chance to 1994 to go to Papua New Guinea for the first time, and see the need firsthand, and see the remoteness, and see the lack of access, the lack of hope. And that's really where the vision. I went over, there were the friend of mine, Gary Buston, and through that trip, we just came up, you know, the stream came and it was like, hey, we can use a full plane to go in the areas that nobody else is getting to and help bring right access and hope to this people that have none. And so, yes, from that young age at 19, that's really when the dream came and we begin the planning --
SESAY: you been doing it.
PALM: Planning this adventure.
SESAY: Yes, and so -- and then, now, being said, you have been doing it for such a young age. It really has been your life, most of your adult life if you will. So, talk to me about how you are viewed in that environment. I mean, for those remote communities that you flying to on that floatplane, do they view you as an oddity, a strange white man that flying in on a plane to help well. Have you become one of their own? How do they interact with you, how do they feel about you besides being grateful to the help you bring them?
PALM: Yes, I think, you know, initially, obviously, most of the people never seen a seaplane. And so, to be flying into this remote village and step out, out of an airplane right up close to something that they've never seen.
And so, that was the something that was always a rarity, and still, as every time I fly into a village, you know, the whole village comes out. All had 200, 300 people standing on the bank watching and come up and talk to me. And -- you know, so I think, initially, obviously, I was you. This white -- this white skin, that what as I call as at New Guinea, white man.
But, you know, over time, I have a family there now. You know, I was given a name in the village and I have PNG, Papua New Guinea family. I have Papua New Guinea grandma and a mom. Then, all of those things, either being there now, I'm living there and being in part of the culture.
You know, those people are family now at a lot of ways. And it's amazing, I've been back for a couple of months now, I'm going back in a few weeks and I can't wait to see my Papua New Guinea family.
[02:55:24] SESAY: So, let me ask you this. At first, let me tell our viewer that the work you do -- you don't charge them, the flight is free. All this work you are doing, it's not costing them anything. My take away from watching the little video you sent us is that one individual can make a difference. One individual can make a massive difference in this world that we lived in. Talk to me the about what you get from doing this work.
PALM: Yes, it's hard of -- to put it in the word -- you know, I think just having that dream to make a difference. I'm really believing that we're all here to make a difference in all of our communities, wherever we are. We don't -- we don't have to go to Papua New Guinea, or far out land to make a difference, there's need everywhere. For me, that's where I been called.
But, to me when I go in and I had a chances last -- this last year, the very first flight I ever did medically in Papua New Guinea was Good Friday of 2010. And I got a call for a mother who was unconscious, and they asked, you know, hey, can you -- can you help us? We have know the way to get her into the hospital. And so, I remember, loading the plane up -- for 10 years, my friend and I in America telling everybody about the goal that we had and to finally actually flight out to pick up a mother who's unconscious. Bring her in, she lives. The next day, I go in with my wife and they have this little baby boy.
SESAY: Wow.
PALM: And they named them after me, and that was such an honor. Then, this last year (INAUDIBLE) going on his 7th birthday, and see this young man now. And every time I go back on the village and I see someone who have been able to fly in, someone who have been able to develop a relationship on their town. And then I'm back in the villagers, this week, deliver a 150,000 pounds of medical supplies deported one of our aid post.
SESAY: That's incredible.
PALM: And with one -- you know, little airplane. And so, yes, they go back in and have this relationships. Yes, you can't put that in the word, it's --
SESAY: Well.
PALM: It's amazing.
SESAY: It is amazing. Mark Palm, we going to thank you for joining us to share your story and to provide inspiration to our viewers. Every individual can make a difference. Thank you so much, thank you for joining us.
PALM: Your welcome, thank you for having me.
VAUSE: Well, let's make a difference now. Let's go home.
SESAY: We'll going to have to thank you for watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles, I'm Isha Sesay.
VAUSE: I'm John Vause, the news continuous with Rosemary Church, she's at Atlanta. And she'll be with you after a short break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
