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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Bridge Collapse; Mom's Body Found Hidden In Shed; Woman Found Decapitated Near hidden Bunker; Hunt Intensifies For The Golden State Serial Killer. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired March 15, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
[18:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: . disturbing. Quick reminder, we have a podcast. Make sure you subscribe, Apple, (inaudible), at podcast. So you
are all caught up on the week's important news. OK. Crime and Justice with Ashleigh Banfield is up next.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to Crime and Justice. Tonight, someone is
in a whole lot of trouble, because, you know, we get it when an old bridge collapses, but we don't get it when a brand-new one does. And today, a
bridge in Miami reportedly killed several people and injured at least 10 others. This bridge is not even a week old.
With Florida International University boasting in a press release about their quote Accelerated Bridge Construction that reduces traffic, and
traffic interruptions. But today, it crushed eight cars, sending at least 10 people to the hospital and taking several lives according to the Florida
Highway Patrol. Witnesses are telling us they had to run into the street to help people out of their cars before more of that bridge came crashing
down.
And now, search dogs are going through the rubble. We are going to be following this story as it develops, because this is not about crumbling
infrastructure like you hear the politicians talk about. This is about crumbling standards. This is about the lawsuit filed 10 days ago against
the very same company behind this pedestrian bridge by a TSA worker who said, he was crushed by a makeshift bridge at their another construction
site. He is seeking $15,000 for that incident and no doubt, someone is going to be asked to pay for what happened here today. We will watch that
story for and you.
We are also watching this. Someone else needs to pay for what they did to a Texas home. He is an extremely dangerous driver, but he is not going to
get very far, and that's because he left his car at the crime scene after he crashed it into the wall of that home. You think he would be hurt, but
he jumped out of the car and somehow ran off on foot.
The homeowner told local reporters that he must have been going about 45 miles an hour before impact. She said, he actually moved the foundation of
the house by a couple of feet. Despite leaving his car behind and despite the fact that this happened two weeks ago, no one yet knows who this person
is. And Lubbock Police in Texas are asking for your help in finding that driver.
It is not often a missing person is reported, only to discover they were home all along. That might be the case for Nicole Stevens. This beautiful
mother of two known as Nicky living in Nashville, well, her son called police on Monday to say, that she had disappeared. It would just be hours
later, he would be the one to find her, right there at the home, in the back yard, in the shed. Nicky was dead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was the most amazing person I have ever met. She was my rock and I knew that 3:00, 4:00 in the morning no matter where I
was, or who I was with, or what I was doing, if I called her, the phone would get answer and she is there. And that went both ways. And it is
hard to know that one person in your life, no matter what happens is gone. She just wanted a good home for her children. And that is all she ever
talked about. Seeing her kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Right away, police suspected Nicky's boyfriend of shooting her, 35-year-old Matthew McGinnis who has a rap sheet that goes back for years.
And after they searched his home, they made a stark conclusion. That Nicky was killed in his bedroom before her body was brought back to her own home,
at her own shed. McGinnis, for his part, was nowhere to be seen. His roommate so worried about this, he even changed the locks. That was until
today.
The manhunt for him ended when police surrounded his townhome. They ordered him to come out and surrender and they were met with silence.
Somehow, he had made his way past those new locks of roommates that had put in. But when police went inside, still no response. It would not take
long for them to find him though, when the SWAT Team climbed the stairs, there he was, in his bathroom with a gun pointed to his head and both his
and the SWAT guns went off.
Tonight, both Nicky and her boyfriend are dead and police will never be able to ask him whether he indeed killed her or why he may have done it.
With me now is Natalie Allison, she is the breaking news reporter for The Tennessean. Natalie, this was an intense day and an intense stand-up, walk
me through what happened as they surrounded that home.
NATALIE ALLISON, REPORTER, THE TENNESSEAN: Right, Ashleigh. So, what happened was -- we got a call this morning, around 7:30 and we got a tip
that Matthew McGinnis might have been taken back to his house by a friend. When officers arrived, they actually realized that a front window had been
broken open, one of the windows to the house, because his roommate had changed the lock. He was unable to get in with his own key.
[18:05:09] Over an hour later, they eventually made entry into the house, the SWAT Team did. And it was there where they did encounter him upstairs.
Police say that they were yelling at him not to shoot. Don't do it, don't do it. And within seconds, he switched his arm, at which time he shot
himself and a SWAT Officer also fired a shot at him.
BANFIELD: So, be really clear, you know, we are looking at what looks like a pretty nice neighborhood. It looks to be somewhat rural, but not really.
In Tennessee. Upscale. Autumn ridge. This really doesn't look like the kind of place where you would hear about this sort of thing happening. A
woman found dead in her shed. A man with a gun to his head back at his home. A SWAT Team coming out to what looks like a quiet neighborhood.
What are people there saying about this?
ALLISON: Right. Yes, the neighborhood that Matthew McGinnis lived, in was a townhome complex and the home was very nice. The homes look very nice.
There were lots of nice neighbors around who are all really disturbed by what they were seeing. Their parking lot had been taken over by local
police, by state police, crime scene investigators. Obviously they had a couple hours before and witnessed police trying to barge into a house and
make their way upstairs and they may or may not have heard a shot fired. It was really disturbing. This isn't -- this isn't the kind of
neighborhood where you see a lot of crimes reported or at least not a lot of murders. So, this was -- this was something they I think took a lot of
people by surprise.
BANFIELD: So, what we know about Nicky Stevens? I mean, her photos show her to be full of life and obviously, she had a son and that son made that
horrifying discovery after thinking his mom was missing. He now knows his mom is dead. What do we know about her?
ALLISON: We don't know a lot, Ashleigh. We do know that he did have two children. She had a grown young adult son and a daughter. We know that
her son is the one who found her. As far as her relationship with Matthew McGinnis, I tried to get what I could, out of police. They haven't said
how long the couple had been together. They haven't said any possible motive in these relationship. So, at this point we still don't know what -
- what motive he may have had to kill her if he did. And as you mentioned, that is something we may not be able to find out.
BANFIELD: And then, what if this -- what if this perpetrator, Matthew Luther McGinnis, 35 years old, clearly what we can tell from where he live
was that he's got some money. It isn't cheap to live in a neighborhood like that. What else do we know about him?
ALLISON: We do know that he has a history of domestic violence into them. A number of those he has been convicted of is domestic assault, of
harassment, of violation, of protective orders. He also has been found guilty of evading arrest before, so we see that not only had -- he
previously had romance potentially with someone he lived with in a violent way, but also trying to escape police protection.
BANFIELD: So, yes, let's just run down some of these. They are scrolling on the screen, because there are just too many. And isn't that a surprise?
A guy with a long Rap Sheet, shock full of domestic violence ends up killing a woman, killing a girlfriend and putting her in her own shed and
then making off for the hills until we finally caught up with himself and put a gun to his head.
Everything from the violations of the orders of protection, to harassment, to evading arrest, oral threats, domestic vandalism, reckless endangerment,
domestic assault -- domestic assault again going all the way back to -- to 2003. I just want to read, if I can, obviously the Metropolitan Nashville
Police Department are heavily involved in this. There is always an investigation when a service member's gun goes off. And -- well, just when
the gun goes off, let alone it making contact.
Two bullets are likely to have, you know, made contact with Matthew McGinnis, his own, because he was pointing the gun at his own head and then
a SWAT Member who shot, because they saw his elbow flinch. And let me just read for you, what the Metropolitan police there in Nashville were saying.
One of the SWAT Officers, eight-year MNPD veteran, Chris Key, fired his rifle virtually simultaneously to McGinnis' pistol shot. The Tennessee
Bureau of Inquiry, TBI is conducting the shooting investigation due to McGinnis being deceased. Obviously, Officer Key is an undercover Gang Unit
detective, so they are not releasing his photo at this time. But, wow, I mean, that -- the circumstances they found him in, coming upon him in his
bedroom-bathroom area with the gun pointed to his head, still alive and staring them right down.
[18:10:00] Let me bring in Art Roderick, if I can, CNN Law Enforcement Analyst, he is also a former Assistant Director of the U.S. Marshal's.
Art, I am assuming that you have been trained in this kind of circumstance, when you come upon a suspect.
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALSYT: Yes.
BANFIELD: He is a murder suspect, so you know he is dangerous. He's got the gun to his head. I'm astounded that they don't shoot right away,
because the instant that it would take for that gun, to not to be pointing at his head, but to be pointing at the approaching officer, I mean, it's a
hundred of a second, but they did. They called out to him and they saw his elbow flinch. Walk me through the training at that point for those
officers.
RODERICK: I mean, first of all, any time you come upon an individual that's got a hand gun, whether he is pointing it at himself or pointing at
the ground, you have to be ready to fire instantaneously as you mentioned. It's a hundred of a second and I think, that is exactly what occurred here.
Now I have actually investigated a shooting, somewhat similar to this, where an individual committed suicide and was shot by several officers,
because they were not sure whether the rounds were out coming from a particular area. And that's the confusion that encompasses a shooting
incident.
They will sort it out fairly quickly to figure out, if the individual killed himself or was it the officer that fired that killed him?
BANFIELD: Yes.
RODERICK: They will sort it out through the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. Third party investigation, which is the right way, the
correct way to do any of this shooting investigations.
BANFIELD: And my guess is a lot of folks in that community are probably whispering, maybe not so under their breath. Thank god that his bullet or
the officer's bullet took him out. If he murder and it all, you know, arrows point to him being the murderer of Nicky Stevens, if he's the
murderer, well, the cost of that bullet just cost him a trial, a murder trial, potentially even a death penalty is that Tennessee, if I am not
mistaken Tennessee is a Death Penalty State.
Areva Martin joins me now. She's CNN legal analyst and she is also the author of Make It Rain. Areva, listen, we don't have a prosecution, OK,
but we do have a friend who dropped this guy off and this guy was wanted. And it was all over the news that he was wanted. Is this friend who right
now remains nameless, is he in a whole lot of trouble for this?
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, absolutely. As you know, Ashleigh, if he had any knowledge that this guy was wanted as a suspect or
that he was the potential murder of, you know, this young lady, he could be charged for harboring, you know an accomplice. He could be charge with
several crimes, related to this death. I think, what is so tragic for me about this, this guy had such a long Rap Sheet.
Domestic violence, you know, violating restraining orders and we see this time and time again when young women are killed by boyfriends, by lovers,
by partners, by spouses and there is this history. And you often wonder, if the women knew, if they had any knowledge of this Rap Sheet then maybe
they would have avoided the relationship and they would got out of the relationship, they would have done something to protect themselves.
So, this is just a tragic story and that man, his friend who dropped him off, yes, the police are going to want to talk with him. We know there's
some potential evidence at this guy, at Matthew's house and maybe in his bed and some other forensic evidence that is going to be examined to
determine, if he did in fact kill his girlfriend and young mothers.
BANFIELD: I hear you. I hear you. I see that list that was scrolling by as you were talking about all those -- we asked, if those domestic violence
incidents involved a string of different women and we did not get that answer, but all I can say is for women out there, who choose not to testify
against an abuser and he walks free and moves on to the next lady.
Well, thank god you are alive, but the next lady just may not be. And God forbid that, that was Nicky Steven, potentially the victim of Matthew
Luther McGinnis, a long time serial domestic abuser. And there's the lower third, Mom's body found hidden in shed, which is missing, found by son. My
thanks so much to Natalie Allison, Art Roderick and Areva Martin.
A horrifying discovery in Washington State sparks a manhunt for this man, after the remains of a decapitated woman are found in a survivalist bunker.
Guess what else was found there. Also you can now listen to our show any time. Download our podcast on Apple podcasts, I Heart Radio, Stitcher or
tune in or wherever you get your podcasts for your crime in just a flick.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:19:39] BANFIELD: Anybody who has done a Google Earth on Washington State can see that the west side is chalk full of islands. They are
idyllic, forested and property gets bought up pretty quick. But there is one plot of land, on Camano Island that is off the market, because it has
turned into a crime scene. Police say there is a bunker full of guns and ammo where an interested buyer just found a body, stuffed in a sleeping bag
and wrapped in a tarp. And that body had no head. And make no mistake, police do know it belonged to Katherine Cunningham.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[18:20:15] DAVID GUSTAFSORI, NEIGHBOR: I was completely shocked when my friend texted me. I had no idea.
FAITH MICKELS, NEIGHBOR: What's exactly going on? It would be nice to have more a little more information being that, you know, literally her
yards from what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: According to the neighbors, Katherine lived in a trailer nearby with her boyfriend, 33 year-old, Jacob Gonzales. And surprise, surprise,
Jacob Gonzalez has not been seen since. Here's the weird part. Police say they think he might be headed for Las Vegas. Joining me now, Free-lance
reporter, Dillon Honcoop. Dillon, did you have any idea, why do police think that this man is Vegas-bound?
DILLON HONCOOP, FREE-LANCE REPORTER: Well, he has a long and storied history already with the law enforcement. Already a long Rap Sheet. They
are not exactly sure of them. Police are very tight lipped on this case and just at the outset here of what some of these details are. We haven't
been able to dig up some of the details based on a search warrant that has been issued and approved for this property and this crime scene, but not
exactly sure why. Las Vegans said, that we know that a car belonging to this victim, Katherine Cunningham, was found in Yreka, California. And this
-- the person of interest --
BANFIELD: That is like -- that is like 500 miles away, right? Yreka, California is about 500 miles away as I see it on the map from Camano
Island, Washington. What is the connection between where her car was found and the place where they lived and where she was found headless?
HONCOOP: This is the twisted story were both of -- both of the person of interest, this Jacob Gonzales, as well as Katherine Cunningham, the victim
both previously service members down in California. They both lived in the same town in California not far from the area that they are now looking for
this man. And -- so the question is, what is the real -- the Sheriff's Office is not even clear on what the relationship has been between these
two people.
Neighbor said that his girlfriend live with him in the trailer at this property where her body was found. So, that is one piece of evidence that
we have here about a potential relationship. We don't even officially know, what these two were doing together other than they came from the same
town in California and they were both in the armed services together.
Now, this guy is on the run, mind you, he is a person of interest. There is an arrest warned out for him, but not for the murder of Katherine
Cunningham, for firearms charges. And it remains to be seen whether or not though they'll find him and then what will happen from that point. It's
surprising to me that they have not yet named him as an official suspect in this murder.
BANFIELD: So, that is interesting. Dillon, that is interesting. You are right. There is an unlawful possession of a firearm warrant and also motor
vehicle theft. That is not big potatoes in our business, but it is big enough potatoes to the authorities there, that they attached a million
dollar tag to that warrant. That sounds weird and I will get into that in a minute, but there is a million dollar reward for this guy.
And as we understand it, the million dollars really pertains to bond. Again, bond for somebody who has unlawful potential of firearm, is not
usually a million dollars. So, me, thinks that while they are not calling him a suspect, they feel pretty strongly that this guy is more dangerous
than just owning a firearm he shouldn't or having stolen a car. A couple more details to go over with you, Dillon, because it is very strange the
way this victim was found.
She was cut across the neck. The cut apparently clean. The body bloodless. This is bizarre in terms of a murder scene. It is a secondary
crime scene we are told, meaning she was killed somewhere else and brought to the bunker. There were 12 empty sandbags lined up as if it were a
popcorn trail from the spot where she was found dead in the sleeping bag in a tarp and to a spot that was effectively a bunker -- a bunker described as
what like survivalists would build. Six feet deep, four feet round. Reinforced by wood with a ladder going down. What was inside the bunker?
HONCOOP: There was a bucket, a box some items under a tarp. Possibly a water jog and kayak, again, like you said, a survivalist-type bunker. Why
that was out on this property is -- is a big question. And how that relates to her disappearance is also or her murder is a question, because
in the search warrant they describe a trail from this 15-foot camper trailer to where her body was found. So, that looks --
[18:25:08] BANFIELD: What was in the trailer? What was near the trailer? What do you find around the trailer?
HONCOOP: They found blood, they found clumps of hair, things like this and that maybe why the body was not in a pool of blood where it was found,
because of the actual violence happening somewhere else. But just to give you an idea of what they think may have happened, when we look at the
search warrant, they say they are looking for any weapon not limited -- including, but limited to power tools, saws, knives, machete or hatchet.
BANFIELD: Oh, that is just a grizzly information. Speaking of that, identifying Katherine Cunningham. Everyone has talk about of this being a
situation where the woman was decapitated, was her head there with the body and do they have possession or is it missing?
HONCOOP: No. And in fact, I'm quoting from the search warrant the very first item listed in the search warrant is, they are searching for missing
portions of Katherine's anatomy. That is exactly what they are looking for. It's a horrible, horrible story.
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Art Roderick, he is still with me, former assistant to the Director of U.S. Marshalls, CNN Law Enforcement Analyst as
well. This is a strange scene and by the way, Art, you know, Dylan just reported they are both former service members and they're both in the Air
Force.
So, presumably, Jacob Gonzalez and the victim Katherine Cunningham had all sorts of training that the lay person would not have, but like this? The
survivalist information, the decapitation information, can you help me to sort of get into the law enforcement officer's head as they track this guy?
RODERICK: Yes. I mean, when you look at the scene and you look at the language in the -- in the search warrant and the return on the search
warrant which to me is interesting, because of the items that were actually taken from the property. It takes a special kind of psychopath to
decapitate and dismember a body. And this is obviously a horrible crime, but since we know who he is and we know, you know, we got his military
records at hand.
He also has a past criminal history. I think this guy's clock is ticking. He will be in custody fairly soon and I agree with you that you never see a
million dollar bail put on an individual that just wanted for a gun violation. So this guy is more than a person of interest. He is
definitely a suspect. Especially when you look at the return on the search warrant from what was taken from that particular piece of property.
BANFIELD: Yes. Full convicted felon, a car found 500 miles away. Some kind of information that leads them to believe, he is headed to Las Vegas.
You know, Las Vegas, Art, it does not escape people that there are cameras everywhere.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: I just assuming that facial recognition technology is all over that town. If he does get to Vegas, does that make the job of catching him
and prosecuting him easier?
RODERICK: It does to a certain degree. I mean there is task forces all the way from Washington State to Las Vegas through California. I mean,
these task forces are all put on alert whether they are fugitive task force or violent crime task forces.
I'm sure the county has reached out to their Federal State and local counterparts to be on the lookout for this individual, but as we know, if
he goes into a casino, they are probably -- the casinos are the most secured and surveilled locations that we probably have in the United
States.
If he steps into that area, the Los Vegas Metro P.D. and Federal Law Enforcement agencies down there are fairly used to individuals that commit
crimes and then go to Las Vegas. So this is not unusual when I hear that he is going to Las Vegas.
BANFIELD: There is his description. Up there on the screen. 150 pounds and 5'9". He is a thin guy. Black hair, hazel eyes, I mean those are
unmistakable eyes. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to see that he has a very significant look.
RODERICK: Exactly.
BANFIELD: He is not your average looking guy. There you go. If anybody is in that area, definitely keep your eyes out for this man, because if he
did what it's possible he may have done and we don't know, he is not a suspect in this crime yet, not officially, but he got a million dollar
warrant out for him. So read into that, whatever you will.
My thanks for Dillon Honcoop and Art Roderick. For that, I'm going to ask Areva Martin, just stick around with us as well, because straight ahead,
new information and it just might help crack a 40-year-old cold case. What do the sketches look like to you? Do they look like the same guy? Well,
if they do, that is news, because their crimes could span decades and they are thought to be two different people.
Coming up next, a serial killer, a serial rapist, a serial burglar. Are they the same guy?
[18:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:03] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, PRIMETIME JUSTICE SHOW HOST, HLN: When someone is killed, we want to know who did it. When someone is raped, we
want to know who to lock up. But there is a guy out there accused of killing 12 people and attacking 51, and we have no idea who he is. Not for
lack of trying though.
Investigators have been searching for "Golden State Killer" for well over 40 years, but he stopped leaving clues back in 1986. That was after a
decade of demented attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I woke up with a hand over my mouth. Sock stuffed in my mouth. Blindfolded. Gagged. Hands tied. Legs tied. He
said, if you move, I'm going to kill you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Investigators spent 10 years tracking the serial killer as he terrorized his way through California, breaking into bedrooms, targeting
women, then targeting couples, and disappearing into thin air.
Tonight, he could still be alive and he could still pay for his crimes, which is why HLN is digging deep and premiering the unmasking a killer
series this Sunday at 9:00. We are investigating the psychopath who had an M.O. like no other. And the revolting reputation that preceded him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking a look at all the victims. Of course, you are trying to look for commonalities. Early on attacking single women. He is
consistent in terms of what he is doing. He did follow a plan when he would attack. That was all about self-preservation.
CAROL DALY, INVESTIGATOR: There were so many attacks. We were afraid that we might have a copycat. His M.O. was so identifiable. Even the officers
arriving at the scene would know that it was the east area rapist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Paul Holes joins me now. He is an investigator with the Contra Costa District Attorney's Office. He has been working on this case for the
past 24 years. Paul, thank you so much for being with me. Let's get right to this.
There is so much to this case. The most bizarre part of this with all of those attacks, 50 plus attacks, there were rape kits, but because the
statute of limitations is only three years, they would just toss them out.
And your organization, your investigators found three of them, and that is what linked this man from what was going on in Northern California to
Southern California. So we know it's the same guy, but the DNA goes nowhere else after that. We can't link it to a criminal anywhere else, correct?
PAUL HOLES, COLD CASE INVESTIGATOR: That is correct. We absolutely know the east area rapist in Northern California is the same guy that was known
as the original night stalker down south because of the DNA.
BANFIELD: So that is the fascinating part of all this. He has three names. He is the east area rapist. He is the original night stalker. And he's the
golden state serial killer. And there are eras of his crimes. I want to put up if I can the new aspect of this case.
Because cold cases go cold until something heats them up. And there is a sketch of a burglar. And this burglar was prosecuting his crimes well
before the reign of terror of this rapist and killer.
So I want to do the comparative if I can. There is a picture from 1973 that we are looking at, and this is the burglary suspect. But the crimes of the
original night stalker and the east area rapist and the golden state killer who shall remain golden state killer for the purposes of this segment now,
he's the one on the far right. And there is a shooting suspect who was a burglar in '77 in the middle.
I have to say, Paul, they look like the same guy. All three of them look identical.
HOLES: That's what we hope. We hope that those sketches are accurate so somebody out there in the public will be able to recognize him and give us
his name.
BANFIELD: So let's pop those into full screen for a minute, Paul, just so we are clear. On the left is 1973. A series of burglaries that now I guess
your organization, your investigators believe was the casing of the potential victims.
The shooting suspect in 1977 in the middle is a guy who was prowling and caught and the guy who caught him chased after him and ended up being shot
by that person in the middle. And then the one on the right is the serial killer, 1976 to 1986, 10 years of just what can only be described as
atrocious crimes.
But the crimes other than being linked by DNA, Paul, were linked by M.O. Give me a few of those lowlights, those horrible details that linked him to
all of those attacks and deaths.
HOLES: Well, the east area rapist when he was attacking in Northern California, he had a very distinctive M.O. Once he would break inside a
house, he would get the female bound up, face down with her hands bound behind her back. And then go throughout the house and ransack it looking
for jewelry or other items.
[18:40:06] When he started attacking with a man present, that's when you started to see him move more into self-preservation mode, stay away, and
actually throw bindings to the female to make her bind her husband up. Once the husband is bound, then he would go and bind the female and then go
through the house.
One of the real distinctive aspects about this guy is that he would come back with dishes and put those on the back of the male as an alarm system
and tell the guy, if I hear these, she's dead or I will kill everything inside the house and then he would take the woman out to a different room
where he would sexually assault her. The use of the dishes as an alarm system is very unique.
BANFIELD: So the dishes that was a regular occurrence. And there is also something else with this killer. He would often linger for hours. Rummaging
through the kitchen and sometimes actually cooking himself a meal. How often did that happen?
HOLES: He did that quite frequently in terms of staying inside the house with the victims bound. The woman is separated in a different room. The man
is bound in bed. And he would go through the refrigerator. If there was beer inside the refrigerator, he would take a can or three cans and go in
the backyard and drink it. Sometimes he will have a box of crackers.
In a few instances, he actually cooked something in the kitchen and ate it. He basically possessed that house. That was his way of in essence saying
I've got control of this entire environment, I've got control of the victims. There may have been a practical aspect. If he had been out
prowling all night, he may truly have been hungry and just once he had control, decided that he could eat the victim's food.
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Jane Carson. Jane is also known as victim number five. Jane did not talk about what happened to her for a very long
time and then she did. Jane, the things that Paul Holes has just told us as an investigator in this case, you know too intimately, this happened to
you. Can you tell me a little bit about the attack that you endured?
JANE CARSON, VICTIM NUMBER FIVE (via telephone): Certainly I can. Well, I --and I also have some things to add to his M.O. Yes, he came about -- I
guess it was about 6:30 in the morning when he entered my home. My husband had just left for work. And I heard the garage door closed and within a
minute, someone was running down the hall with a flashlight.
And I yelled out to my husband, you know, what did you forget? What's the matter? Then I soon realized it was not my husband, it was a man standing
there with a ski mask on holding a large butcher knife with a black leather jacket, black sneakers and again, shining the flashlight in my eyes.
And he immediately with clenched teeth told me shut up, shut up or I'll kill you. I will repeat how he would say that. He would say, shut up, shut
up or I'll kill you. If he said that once, he must have said it 10 times. And then -- at that point, my son had just previously gotten into bed with
me. I have a 3-year-old son at the time.
You can imagine the fear that I was experiencing. He proceeded to tie us both up with shoelaces that were either mine, I'm not sure, or he brought
with him. And then he blindfolded us and gagged us both. He told me that he was only there for money, but as soon as he untied my ankles, I knew he was
there for more than just money.
Prior to raping me, he kept opening up my dresser drawers and going through my underwear drawers and my other drawers and he had this ritual of tearing
cloth sheets and towels and I had absolutely no idea what he was going to be doing with these. Whether he was going to further bind us or he was
going to hang us, I had no idea.
Anyway, when he untied my ankles, I knew that he was there to rape me. Prior to raping me, he moved my 3-year-old son and I had no idea where he
put him.
BANFIELD: Jane, your 3-year-old son, this was not an unusual modus operandi for him. He made it his mission to go after women who are alone or
with children. When we come back after the break, I want to ask you about the mission to find him, and what you would do if you were in a room alone
with him. That's when we come back.
[18:45:04:] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Still with me, Jane Carson. She is also known as victim number five of the golden state rapist and killer.
[18:50:01] She survived and for decades, she has now been talking not only about what happened, but to other victims to help them get through what
they went through at the hands of this psychopath, now thought to be somewhere between 65 and 75 years old, also thought to still be alive and
somewhere out there.
Jane, we just left off with you telling me he was hissing through clenched teeth his commands.
CARSON (via telephone): Yes, he was.
BANFIELD: That's something that other survivors have said he did to them as well. Your 3-year-old child was with you and endured this. How did your
son come out of it? How is your son today?
CARSON (via telephone): I will tell you what's amazing is that when he finally -- when the east area rapist finally left and I was able to get my
blindfold down, I looked at my son and he was asleep. I don't know how long he has been asleep.
I don't know how long he had been, you know, back on the bed next to me, but one thing I do want to mention is I really do not remember much about
the rape because the fear was so overwhelming as to what, you know, where did he put my son.
That's what I was really thinking about the whole time. My son doesn't remember much now, Ashleigh, except that he thinks that a robber came to
the house and I didn't tell him about the incident until he was in college. That's all he remembers. He thought there was a robber who came into the
house.
BANFIELD: That's terrifying enough for a 3-year-old boy to have been right beside his protector and then to have this monster come in. There is
something else to this, Jane, that is so unbelievable. But you and others who were victimized by the golden state rapist and killer were taunted by
him afterwards by a series of phone calls. What happened?
CARSON (via telephone): Yes. He would just call and hang up, but he would be on the line. So he didn't say anything to me, but I had my phone taped
or tapped I should say. And unfortunately we were never able to connect him on the other line. But he would call and just again to cause fear. He never
said anything. He just hung on the line and I knew darn well it was him.
BANFIELD: Jane, the other very disturbing part of the details of the crime against you was what he said specifically to you. If I can quote, you tell
me if I'm off. Through those hissing, clenched teeth, he said, you looked really good at the O club. That's the officer's club, correct?
CARSON (via telephone): Yes, yes. I think he was trying -- OK, I'm sorry, go ahead.
BANFIELD: How did he know that you had been at an officer's club that your husband was in the military? Did you ever piece that together?
CARSON (via telephone): I think it was because he had broken into my home two weeks prior to my attack and he probably saw photos of us in the house.
And plus he had probably been stalking me for quite sometime and he probably knew who my husband was and the fact that he was in the military
and what time he left for work.
He had all the information. Now, whether he did see me at the officer's club, I have no idea. He could have thrown that out there to throw off the
investigators.
BANFIELD: I mean, it's just so remarkable that he would say it to you during the crime. It fits the M.O. that the investigators are now really
putting forth that this burglar from 1973 and the series of burglaries was the casing of the victims for the crimes that would begin in 1976 through
1986, yours being in both of those.
If you -- if they find him, Jane, and if you had that moment alone with him, most people would think you would want to terrorize him the way he
terrorized you, but is that true?
CARSON (via telephone): Had I met him right after the rape, I would have had him tied up to a stake. I wouldn't have him blindfolded yet, but I
would have him tied up and I would walk toward him with a large butcher knife in my hand and I would unzip his fly and he would not know what I was
going to do.
I would walk away and come back. I just wanted to scare the hell out of him, just instill that same fear that he instilled in me. Today, I just
want to sit across the table from him and just want to ask him some questions. Why? Where did you put my son? Where did you see me? Then I
would like to ask him to get down on his hands and knees and ask the Lord for forgiveness.
BANFIELD: You are a bigger person than I, and I think our audience commends you for your ability to forgive. I know that it's usually the
process of healing yourself.
[18:55:02] You know, Jane Carson, thank you so much for your story. It is a fascinating tale. HLN' five-part true crime original series, "Unmasking A
Killer," coming up this Sunday, March 18th at 9:00 p.m.
[19:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:00:24] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, the confession a catholic priest couldn't keep to himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me he killed his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is accused of putting a bullet in her head then driving straight to church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very shocking (INAUDIBLE) like this.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But according to police, she may not have been the only person he meant to kill.
Police say they found a woman near a bunker full of guns.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had no idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But she is not just dead, she is decapitated.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An eerie feeling. What was I doing when this woman was being murdered in, you know, my backyard?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The man they are looking for tonight and where they think he is headed.
And the serial rapist killer who terrorized a whole state.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I imagine a lot of women in the area are scared and are nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Attacking more than 60 people, some in their beds with kids nearby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up with a hand over my mouth.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he went dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty rapes he never got caught. How many homicides, never got caught.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, the hunt is renewed. And a victim who survived tells exactly what he did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This guy has some military connection.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Good evening. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.
And welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
The stories people tell in confessionals could probably fill pages. Their most twisted thoughts, their scandalous sins and the priests usually cannot
share a word of it. But one priest in Erie, Pennsylvania just heard a confession he could not keep to himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He told me that he killed his wife. I said I need to talk and that's what he said.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you called the police?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I called the police.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Father Michael directed police officers to an affluent neighborhood called whispering woods, appropriately named because
whispering woods seems to be holding some pretty dark secrets tonight like what on earth happened before 44-year-old John Grazioli allegedly killed
his own wife. And they were newlyweds.
But when police arrived at their home, a beautiful upscale house, they found her lying on top of the bed in the master bedroom with a bullet
through her head.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE VISNOSKY, NEIGHBOR: He was a very nice fellow, you know. I never expected anything like this from him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Grazioli's ex-wife may not have expected that either. She is the mother of his two children who police say he also confessed this crime
to. She called the police as well, tipping them off. But it is father Michael's officers are thanking for hearing Grazioli's confession and
reportedly even convincing him not to kill himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEPUTY CHIEF MIKE NOLAN, ERIE POLICE DEPARTMENT: It was heroic and get his composure and I guess he did a very good job from our perspective. And I'm
sure he did a good job from the perspective of the man upstairs, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: With me now Paul Wagner. He is a reporter with CNN affiliate WICU.
Paul, the story is remarkable. Walk me through a little bit about John Paul Grazioli, a newlywed to Amanda Grazioli. Amanda is no longer with us,
but John sure is.
PAUL WAGNER, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WICU (on the phone): Yes, he is with us and he is right now without his freedom in the Erie county prison here
on Erie, Pennsylvania without bond, awaiting his first court appearance which is likely within the next several weeks.
I think it captured everyone's attention here for precisely the reasons you talked about, Ashleigh. An upscale neighborhood where you don't see a
crime like this happening. The fact that he talked to a priest and the fact that the couple were newlyweds combined, really has got people's
attention.
BANFIELD: So little of it makes sense, Paul. The fact that he allegedly kills his own wife, picks up a phone, dials his ex-wife, the mother of his
two kids, confesses this to her, races off to the church, confesses it to a priest and has a plan to kill himself as well.
There is a mysterious handwritten note that was found next to Amanda's body. And I'm going to read that if I can. The note says, I killed Amanda
Schmitt Grazioli. I killed myself. I am profoundly sorry. Sorry for all of this. And it is signed by John Grazioli.
Presuming the police have this as evidence, that would make three confessions, Paul. But the most intriguing confession of all is the one
from the priest. How did that happen? And most importantly where did it happen?
[19:05:25] WAGNER: Well, it happened at the rectory of St. Peter Cathedral which is a major catholic church in downtown Erie. And the cell phone of
John Grazioli was pinging by police when they got the call from 911 from his wife that he said that he had killed his new wife. Police converged on
that church at the cathedral, heavy police presence with the, you know, rifles and everything waiting for him outside. But as you said Father
Michael (INAUDIBLE) did the right thing. He was cool. He was calm. They called 911. And the 911 operator, the first thing the operator said is, is
he armed? And he nodded. And the priest said where do you have the gun? He said to the coat and he took the coat off and kept the coat between the
priest and Mr. Grazioli until he surrendered himself. So the priest was really the hero here. He was very calm and kept the situation under
control.
BANFIELD: Father Michael (INAUDIBLE), unbelievable that he was able to keep his cool to the extent that he did given the information that was
being unloaded on to him.
It's very important to note where he was told that this happened. Because in the church there were a lot of different places you can go to talk to a
priest. You can go into those confessional booths which most Catholics are all too familiar with. You can talk to your priest say right there where
you are in the congregation. You can talk to your priest say in his office.
And it is critical, it is critical where those conversations happen to the story. I'm going to get to that in a moment, but before I do that, Paul,
they found the gun in his coat pocket. He does have two children at this point. Do we know where they are and where his ex-wife is at this point?
WAGNER: His ex-wife lives here in Erie and there was a contentious custody battle between Erica Grazioli and John Grazioli. And there was a court
hearing that had been scheduled for this week status compass (ph) before a judge. But in light of what happened, the judge this week gave sole
custody of the two children to his ex-wife, Erica Grazioli.
BANFIELD: I think that makes perfect sense. Because with three confessions now and signed and left by a dead body, one to an ex-wife and
one to a priest, this is going to be a very difficult case to mount in terms of a defense case.
And just lastly, John Grazioli, Paul, gave the information to his wife, not only that he just killed his newlywed wife, but he also told his ex-wife on
the phone where to find her. Walk me through the crime scene a little bit in terms of exact location and why it is significant what he told his ex.
WAGNER: Yes. He told his ex that he killed his new wife, Amanda Schmidt Grazioli, in their house. The house is in the, you reported earlier,
upscale suburb of Erie. The suburban police went to that home. They forced their way into the home and they found the body of the deceased,
Amanda Schmidt Grazioli on a bed with a single gunshot wound to the head, is what we were told.
BANFIELD: Single gunshot wound to the head. More specifically back of the head, base of the skull. Police are saying this was a glock 43 .9
millimeter that was used. They are also saying that he informed police himself, he had just purchased that gun one month ago which is curious
because that goes to whether this was premeditated and planned. Although, not necessarily because one can premeditate and plan a murder in a split
second and that is by code. That is not just by opinion, that's by code.
Paul, standby, if you will. I want to bring you into the conversation, Monseigneur Kevin Irwin. He is a professor of theology at catholic
university in Washington, D.C.
Monseigneur, you are crucial to this conversation because while the headline screams that is a priest gave up what he heard in confession,
there are two different kinds of confessions. There is someone who confesses something and then there is someone who goes into a confessional
booth and confesses something to a priest. And what this man, John Grazioli, did in that church is not the latter, is it?
MSGR. KEVIN IRWIN, PROFESSOR OF THEOLOGY, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY (on the phone): That's correct. They are doing a very, very precise job. Thank
you very, very much.
And to your question, I mean, the issue here is whether it's the sacrament of confession otherwise known as penance or is it confessing like you do to
a lawyer or a law court and there are two different things. And that is, to me, that's the real issue here.
[19:10:14] BANFIELD: And this was not considered a sacramental confession because as we are told this confession happened in the priest's office. It
did not happen at the confessional booth.
IRWIN: Let me just go back about two steps here. Number one, the priest said in the article I read from the Erie paper is that it was not a
sacramental confession, that's correct. But I want to be fair. The priest can hear a confession as a sacrament outside, in a church, in a war-torn
area with military on board. It could be anywhere. But this was not the place. The real issue is in a sacrament of confession or acknowledging
what you did wrong which is not in the sacrament.
BANFIELD: So how does that distinguish itself to the person like the confessor? How does one know if it's sacramental or how does one know if
it is just a plain old conversation?
IRWIN: Because if the person comes and said I want to make a confession and I did this and give me absolution which forgives me of my sin. If that
did not happen, that is not a sacrament.
BANFIELD: So it has to be prefaced by the confessor. I am seeking absolution, forgive me father, for I have sinned. And ultimately that
triggers the confession that you in your profession are bound by no matter what is said, you may not divulge that, correct?
IRWIN: Exactly, correct. Exactly, correct. Yes --.
BANFIELD: Monseigneur, I have to be honest. I have always been of the conviction that your privilege ends where a threat begins. Now clearly if
the person has already been killed, the threat is over, and the privilege can be bound. But I had always understood and I believe wrongly that that
privilege, that confession that you have to hold next to your soul, you are bound by it even if a man tells you I am about to kill my wife tonight,
correct?
IRWIN: That's correct.
BANFIELD: Why is that and how is that?
IRWIN: We can never say anything that was ever said to us or act differently to the person who said that to us in confession. That is the
seal, that is absolutely (INAUDIBLE) and we would go to our grave knowing things that no one else can ever know.
BANFIELD: It is so unbelievable.
Monseigneur, thank you so much for your input into this very unusual story.
My thanks as well to Paul Wagner.
A horrifying discovery in Washington State has sparked a manhunt for this man after the remains of a decapitated woman were found in a survivalist
bunker.
Also, I want to remind you that you can now listen to our show any time. Download our podcast on Apple podcast, Iheart radio, Stitcher, Tune In or
wherever you get your podcasts for your CRIME & JUSTICE fix.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:18:22] BANFIELD: Anybody who has done a Google earth in Washington State can see that the west side is chalk full of islands. They are
idyllic, forested, property there gets bought up pretty quick. But there is one plot of land on Camino Island that is off the market because it has
turned into a crime scene.
Police say there is a bunker full of guns and ammo where an interested buyer just found a body stuffed in a sleeping bag wrapped in a tarp. And
that body had no head. Make no mistake, police do know it belonged to Katherine Cunningham.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID GUSTAFSON, NEIGHBOR: I was completely shocked when my friend texted me. I had no idea.
FAITH MICKELS, NEIGHBOR: What's exactly going on. It would be nice to have a little more information being that, you know, literally 100 yards
from what's going on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: According to the neighbors, Katherine lived in a trailer nearby with her boyfriend, 33-year-old Jacob Gonzalez. And surprise, surprise
Jacob Gonzalez has not been seen since. But here's the weird part. Police say they think he might be headed for Las Vegas.
Joining me now, freelance reporter Dilan Honcoop.
Dilan, do you have any idea why the police think that this man is Vegas- bound?
DILAN HONCOOP, FREELANCE REPORTER (on the phone): Well, he has a long and storied history already with law enforcement, already with a long rap
sheet. And they are not exactly sure. Police are very tight lipped on this case. Just on the outset here of what some of these details. We have
been able to dig up some of the details based on a search warrant and have been issued and approved for this property and this crime scene. But not
exactly sure why Las Vegas other than we know that a car belonging to this victim, Katherine Cunningham, was found in Yreka, California. And this
person of interest.
(CROSSTALK)
[19:20:21] BANFIELD: That's like 500 miles away, right? Yreka, California is about 500 miles away as I see it on the map from Camino Island,
Washington. What is the connection between where her car was found and the place where they lived and where she was found headless?
HONCOOP: This is the twisted story where both this person of interest, this Jacob Gonzalez as well as Katherine Cunningham, the victim, both
previously service members down in California. They both lived in the same town in California not far from the area that they are now looking for this
man.
And so the question is, what is the relationship? It's not clear on what the relationship has been between these two people. Neighbor said that his
girlfriend lived with him in the trailer at this property where her body was found. So that is one piece of evidence that we have here about the
potential relationship. But we don't even officially know what these two were doing together other than they came from the same town in California.
They were both in the armed services together and now this guy is on the run. Mind you, he is a person of interest. There is an arrest warrant out
for him but not for the murder of Katherine Cunningham, for firearms charges and it remains to be seen whether or not they will find him. And
then what will happen from that point. Surprising to me that they have not yet named him as an official suspect in this murder.
BANFIELD: So that is interesting. So Dilan, that is interesting. You are right. There is an unlawful possession of a firearm warrant and also motor
vehicle theft. That is not big potatoes in our business, but it is big enough potatoes to the authorities there that they have attached a million
dollar tag to that warrant. That sounds weird. I will get into that in a minute, but there is a million dollar warrant for this guy. And as we
understand it, the million dollars really pertains to bond.
Again, bond for somebody who has an unlawful possession of a firearm is not usually a million dollars. So we think that while they are not calling him
a suspect, they feel pretty strongly that this guy is more dangerous than just owning a firearm he shouldn't or having stolen a car.
A couple more details to go over with you, Dilan, because it is very strange the way this victim was found. She was cut across the neck. The
cut apparently clean. The body bloodless. This is bizarre in terms of a murder scene. It is a secondary crime scene we are told. Meaning, she was
killed somewhere else and brought to the bunker. There were 12 empty sandbags lined up as if it were a popcorn trail from the spot where she was
found dead in the sleeping bag in the tarp and to a spot that was effectively a bunker. A bunker described as what like survivalists would
build. Six feet deep, four feet round, reinforced by wood with a ladder going down. What was inside the bunker?
HONCOOP: There was a bucket, a box, some items under a tarp, possibly a water jag and again, like you said, a survivalist-type bunker. Why that
was out on this property is a big question. How that relates to her disappearances, also her murder is a question. Because in the search
warrant, they describe a trail from this 15-foot camper trailer to where her body was found.
BANFIELD: What was in the trailer? What was near the trailer? What they found around the trailer?
HONCOOP: They found blood, they found clumps of hair, things like these. And that's maybe why the body was not in a pool of blood where it was found
because of the actual violence happening somewhere else.
But just to give you an idea of what they think may have happened, when they look at the search warrant, they say they are looking for any weapon
not limited -- including but not limited to power tool, saws, knives, machetes or hatchets.
BANFIELD: That's just grizzly information.
Speaking of that, identifying Katherine Cunningham, everyone has talked about this being a situation where the woman was decapitated. Was her head
there with the body? Do they have possession or is it missing?
HONCOOP: No. And in fact I'm quoting the search warrant, the very first item lifted in the search warrant is they are searching for missing
portions of Katherine's anatomy. And so that is exactly what they are looking for. It's a horrible, horrible story.
I want to bring in Art Roderick. He is still with me, former assistant director of U.S. marshal, CNN law enforcement analyst as well.
This is a strange scene. And by the way, Art, you know, Dilan just reported they are both former service members. They are both from the air
force. So presumably Jacob Gonzalez and the victim, Katherine Cunningham, had all sorts of training that the lay person would not have, but like
this, the survivalist information, the decapitation information. Can you help me to sort of get into the law enforcement officer's head as they try
to track this guy?
[19:25:31] ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. I mean, when you look at the scene and you look at the language in the search warrant
and the return on the search warrant which to me is interesting because of the items that were actually taken from the property. It takes a special
kind of psychopath to decapitate and dismember a body. And this is obviously a horrible crime.
But since we know who he is and we know, you know, we have his military records at hand. He also has a past criminal history. I think this guy's
clock is ticking. He will be in custody fairly soon and agree with you that you never see a million dollar bail put on an individual that just
wanted for a gun violation.
So this guy is more than a person of interest. He is definitely a suspect especially when you look at the return on the search warrant from what was
taken from that particular piece of property.
BANFIELD: Yes. Full convicted felon, a car found 500 miles away. Some kind of information that leads them to believe he is headed to Las Vegas.
You know, Las Vegas, Art, it does not escape people that there are cameras everywhere. I'm just assuming that facial recognition technology is all
over that town. If he does get to Vegas, does that make the job of catching him and prosecuting him easier?
RODERICK: It does to a certain degree. I mean, there are task forces all the way from Washington State to Las Vegas through California. I mean,
these task forces are all put on alert whether they are fugitive task forces or by the crime task forces. I'm sure the county has reached out to
their federal state and local counterparts to be on the lookout for this individual.
But as we know, if he goes into a casino, they are probably, the casinos are the most secure and surveilled locations that we probably have in the
United States. But if he steps into that area, the Las Vegas metro PD and the federal law enforcement agencies down there are fairly used to
individuals that commit crimes and then go to Las Vegas. So this is not unusual when I hear that he is going to Las Vegas.
BANFIELD: Well, there is his description up there on the screen, 150 pounds, 5'9". He is a thin guy, black hair and hazel eyes. I mean, those
are unmistakable eyes. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist just to see that he has a very significant look. He is not your average looking
guy.
But there you go. If anybody is in that area definitely keep your eyes out for this man. Because if he did what it's possible he may have done and we
don't know. He is not a suspect in this crime yet. Not officially, but he has a million warrant out for him. So read into that whatever you will.
My thanks to Dilan Honcoop and Art Roderick for that.
I'm going to Areva Martin to stick around with as well. Because straight ahead, new information and it just might help crack a 40-year-old cold
case. What do these sketches look like to you? Do they look like the same guy? Well, if they do, that's news. Because their crimes could span
decades and they are thought to be two different people.
Coming up next, a serial killer, a serial rapist and a serial burglar. Are they the same guy?
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: When someone is killed, we want to know who did it. When someone is raped, we want to know who to lock up. But there is a guy out
there accused of killing 12 people and attacking 51. And we have no idea who he is. Not for lack of trying though, investigators have been
searching for the Golden State Killer for well over 40 years, but he stopped leaving clues back in 1986, that was after a decade of demented
attacks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up with a hand over my mouth, stuff stuffed in my mouth, blindfolded, gagged, hands tied, legs tied. Said, "If you move,
I'm going to kill you."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Investigators spent 10 years tracking the serial killer as he terrorized his way through California, breaking into bedrooms, targeting
women, then targeting couples, and then disappearing into thin air. Tonight, he could still be alive and he could still pay for his crimes,
which is why HLN is digging deep and premiering the "UNMASKING A KILLER" series this Sunday at 9:00. And we're investigating the psychopath who had
an M.O. like no other, and a revolting reputation that preceded him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:35:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taking a look at all the victims, of course, you're trying to look for commonalities. Early on, attacking single women,
he's consistent in terms of what he is doing. He follow a plan when he would attack. It was all about self-preservation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were so many of attacks, we were afraid that we might have a copycat. His M.O. was so identifiable, even the officers
arriving at the scene would know that it was the East Area Rapist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Paul Holes joins me now. He is an investigator with the Contra Costa District Attorney's Office. He's been working on this case for the
past 24 years. Paul, thank you so much for being with me. Let's get right to this. There's just so much to this case. The most bizarre part of this
with all of those attacks, 50 plus attacks, there were rape kits, but because the statute of limitation is only three years, they would just toss
them out. And your organization, your investigators found three of them and that is what linked this man from what was going on in Northern
California to Southern California. So, we know it's the same guy, but the DNA goes nowhere else after that, we can't link it to a criminal anywhere
else, correct?
PAUL HOLES, INVESTIGATOR, CONTRA COSTA DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE: That is correct. We absolutely know the East Area Rapist in Northern California as
the same guy that was known as the Original Night Stalker down South because of the DNA.
BANFIELD: So, that is the fascinating part of all of this. He has three names, he's the East Area Rapist, he's the Original Night Stalker, and he's
the Golden State Serial Killer. And then, there are eras of his crimes. And I want to put up, if I can, the new aspect of this case. Because cold
cases go cold until something heats them up. And there's a sketch of a burglar and this burglar was prosecuting his crimes well before the reign
of terror of this rapist and killer. So, I want to do the comparative, if I can. There is a picture from 1973 that we're looking at. And this is
the burglary suspect. But the crimes of the -- of the Original Night Stalker and The East Area Rapist and the Golden State Killer who shall
remain Golden State Killer for the purposes of this segment now. He's the one on the far-right and there's a shooting suspect who was a burglar in
'77 in the middle. I have to say, Paul, they look like the same guy, all three of them look identical.
HOLES: Well, that's what we hope as we hope that those sketches are accurate so somebody out there in the public will be able to recognize them
and give us his name.
BANFIELD: So, let's pop those into full screen for a minute, Paul, just so we're clear, on the left is 1973, a series of burglaries that now, I guess,
your organization, your investigators believe was the casing of the potential victims. The shooting suspect in 1977 in the middle is a guy who
was prowling, who was caught. And the guy who caught him chased after him and ended up being shot by that person in the middle. And then the one on
the right is the serial killer, 1976 to 1986, 10 years of just what can only be, you know, described as atrocious crimes. But the crimes other
than being linked by DNA, Paul, were linked by M.O. Give me a few of those lowlifes, those horrible details that linked him to all of those attacks
and deaths.
HOLES: Well, The East Area Rapist, when he was attacking up in Northern California, he had a very distinctive M.O. And once he would break inside
a house, he would get the female bound up, facedown with her hands bound behind her back and then go throughout the house and ransack it, looking
for jewelry or other items. When he started attacking with a man present, that's when you started to see him move more into a self-preservation mode,
stay away, and actually throw bindings to the female to make her bind her husband up.
Once the husband is bound, then he would go and bind the female and then go through the house. One of the real distinctive aspects about this guy is
that he would come back with dishes and put those on the back of the male as an alarm system. And tell the guy if I hear these, she's dead, or I'll
kill everything inside the house. And then he would take the woman out to a different room where he'd sexually assault her. The use of the dishes as
an alarm system is very unique.
BANFIELD: So, the dishes that was a regular occurrence. And there's also something else with this killer. He would often linger for hours,
rummaging through the kitchen and sometimes actually cooking himself a meal. How often did that happen?
[19:39:53] HOLES: He did that quite frequently in terms of staying inside the house with the victims bound, the woman is separated in a different
room, the man is bound in bed, and he would go through the refrigerator. If there was beer inside the refrigerator, he would take a can or three
cans and go out in the backyard and drink it. Sometimes you have a box of crackers and in a few instances, he actually cooked something in the
kitchen and ate it. He basically possessed that house. That was his way of -- an essence saying I've got control of this entire environment, I've
got control of the victims. And there may have been a practical aspect. If he had been out prowling all night, he may truly have been hungry and
just once he had control, decide if that he could eat the victim's food.
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Jane Carson. Jane is also known as victim number five. Jane did not talk about what happened to her for a very long
time and then, she did. Jane, the things that Pall Holes has just told us as an investigator in this case, you know all too intimately. This
happened to you. Can you tell me a little bit about the attack that you endured?
JANE CARSON, VICTIM #5 OF THE GOLDEN STATE KILLER: Certainly, I can. Well, I -- and I also have some things to add to his M.O. But yes, he came
about -- I guess it was about 6:30 in the morning when he entered my home. My husband had just left for work. And I heard the garage door close and
within a minute someone was running down the hall with a flashlight. And I yelled out to my husband, you know, what did you forget? What's the
matter? And then, I soon realized it was not my husband. It was a man standing there with a ski mask on, holding a large butcher knife with a
black leather jacket, black sneakers, and again, shining this flashlight in my eyes.
And he immediately, with clenched teeth, told me, "Shut up, shut up, or I'll kill you," and I'll repeat how he said that. He'd say, "Shut up, shut
up or I'll kill you." And if he said that once, he must have said it 10 times. And then, he -- at that point, my son had just previously gotten
into bed with me. I have a 3-year-old son at the time and so, you can imagine the fear that I was experiencing. He proceeded to tie us both up
with shoe laces that were either mine, I'm not sure or he brought with him. And then, he blindfolded us and gagged us both. He told me that he was
only there for money but as soon as he untied my ankles, I knew that he was there for more than just money. Prior to raping me, he kept opening up my
dresser drawers and through my underwear drawer and my other drawers, and he also had this ritual of tearing cloth sheets and towels. And I had
absolutely no idea what he was going to be doing with these. Whether he was just going to, you know, further bind us, or he was going to hang us.
I had no idea.
And anyway, when he untied my ankles, I knew that, you know, he was there to rape me. Prior to raping me, he moved my 3-year-old son and I had no
idea where he put him. So --
BANFIELD: And Jane, your 3-year-old son, this was not an unusual modus of operandi for him. He made it his mission to go after women who were alone
or with children. When we come back after the break, I want to ask you about the mission to find him. And what you would do if you were in a room
alone with him. This when we come back
[19:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Still with me, Jane Carson. She is also known as victim number five of the Golden State Rapist and Killer. She survived, and for decades,
she has now been talking not only about what happened, but to other victims, to help them get through what they went through at the hands of
this psychopath, now thought to be somewhere between 65 and 75 years old, also thought to still be alive and somewhere out there.
Jane, you -- we just left off with you telling me that he was hissing through clinched teeth.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: And that's something that other survivors have said he did to them as well. Your 3-year-old child was with you and endured this. How
did your son come out of it? How is your son today?
CARSON: Well, I'll tell you what's amazing is that when he finally -- when the East Area Rapist finally left, and I was able to get my blindfold down,
I looked at my son and he was asleep. So, I don't know how long he had been asleep. I don't know how long he had been, you know, back on the bed
next to me. But one thing I did want to mention is I really do not remember much about the rape because the fear was so overwhelming as to
what -- you know, where did he put my son, and that's what I was really thinking about the whole time. But my son doesn't remember much now,
Ashleigh, except that he thinks that a robber came to the house. And I didn't tell him about the incident until he was in college. But that's all
he remembers. Is -- he thought there was a robber that had come into the house.
[19:50:23] BANFIELD: And that's terrifying enough for a 3-year-old boy --
CARSON: Yes. Yes.
BANFIELD: -- to have been right there beside his protector and then to have this monster come in. There's something else, Jane, to this that is so
unbelievable, but you and others, who were victimized by the Golden State Rapist and Killer, were taunted by him afterwards by a series of phone
calls. What happened?
CARSON: Yes. He would just call for -- he would just call and hang up, but he would be on the line. So, he didn't say anything to me but I had my
phone taped -- or tapped, I should say, and unfortunately, we were never -- we were never able to, you know, connect him on the other line. But he
would call and just again, to cause fear but he never said anything. He just hung on the line and I knew darn well it was him.
BANFIELD: Jane, the other very disturbing part of the details of the crime against you was what he said specifically to you. And if I can quote, you
tell me if I'm -- if I'm off. He -- through those hissing clenched teeth he said, you looked really good at the O Club. And that's the Officer's
Club, correct?
CARSON: Yes. Yes. I think he was trying -- OK, I'm sorry. Go ahead.
BANFIELD: How -- you know, how did he know that you had been at an Officer's Club that your husband was in the military? Did you ever piece
that together?
CARSON: I think it was because he had broken into my home two weeks prior to my attack, and he probably, you know, saw photos of us in the house.
And plus, he had probably been stalking, you know, stalking me for quite some time and he probably knew who my husband was, and the fact that, you
know, he was in the military and what -- and what time he left for work. So, he knew all the information. Now, whether he did see me at the
Officer's Club, I have no idea. He could have just thrown that out there to, you know, throw off the investigators.
BANFIELD: But I mean, it's just so remarkable that he would say it to you during the crime. It fits the M.O. that the investigators are now really
putting forth that this burglar from 1973 and the series of burglaries was the casing of the victims for the crimes that would begin in 1976 through
1986, yours being in both of those series. If you -- if they find him, Jane, and if you had that moment alone with him, most people would think
you would want to terrorize him the way he terrorized you, but is that true?
CARSON: Well, had I met him right after the rape, I would have had him tied up to a stake. I would have -- I wouldn't have him blindfolded yet,
but I would have him tied up and I'd walk toward him with a large butcher knife in my hand and I would unzip his fly and he would not know what I was
going to do. And then, I'd walk away and come back. I would just wanted to scare the hell out of him, just instill that same fear that he instilled
in me. Now today, I just want to sit across the table from him and I just want to ask him some questions, you know, why? Where did you put my son?
Where did you see me? And, you know, I just -- and then I would like to ask him to get down on his hands and knees and ask the Lord for
forgiveness.
BANFIELD: You are a bigger person than I. And I think our audience commends you for your ability to forgive. I know that it's usually the
process of healing yourself. You know, Jane Carson, thank you so much for your story. It is a fascinating tale. HLN's five-part true crime original
series "UNMASKING A KILLER" coming up this Sunday, March 18th 9:00 P.M.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: After Carol Rosenstein's husband was diagnosed with dementia, she could see him slipping away from her. And then, one day, he sat down
at the piano.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROL ROSENSTEIN, WIFE OF IRWIN ROSENSTEIN: I was seeing something magical happening before my eyes. The doctor told me that we were watching the
power of music changing brain chemistry.
Playing a musical instrument is like a full body workout for the brain. The music actually resurrected him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Go to CNNheroes.com to hear the band that Carol organized for her husband and while you're there, nominate someone you think should be a
CNN Hero.
END
