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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Suspects In Custody After Violent Crash; Suspect Wrestles Way Out Of Arrest; Cops Confront Man Accused Of Killing Teacher. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired March 21, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

[18:00:00]

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening. I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is "Crime and Justice." First off tonight, in Dayton, Ohio

where all looks normal at the intersection, that white SUV stopped at the light while cars drove by until this back SUV races true that stoplight,

crashing into the back of a pickup and it`s hard to believe that anybody could actually survive that or think straight after that crashed, but the

moment the SUV comes to a stop, two men make a break for it.

Police officers arriving, actually have to chase them on foot. According to our affiliates, both of those men who took off were caught and arrested.

There is no word on their charges as of yet.

Dramatic dash cam video out of Georgia showing the dangers that officers face every single time they make a traffic stop. The sheriff`s deputy said,

he pulled over a driver going 78 in a 55. When the officer tried to put the driver in cuff, the wrestling match effectively broke out, the two

struggling to the ground.

The deputy even gets slammed against the back of his own car. The driver gets away when the deputy grabs the driver`s sweatshirt, ripped it of on

him, he pops into his car and drives off. The deputy hangs on for a moment before actually falling into the ground. That suspect luckily was arrest a

short time later, but it would take a high speed chase that damaged several police cars.

Spokesman says, the driver He faces a list of charges including aggravated assault of a law enforcement officer and several drug counts as well. For

the officer who was knocked to the ground, by the way, in case you were wondering, yes he was hurt, but he should be OK, because apparently it was

just his toe that was broken during that ordeal, but he will recover.

The woman who tried to run from the police didn`t just land in jail, she wound up literally in the doghouse. When I say that, I mean it. The police

say, they were pursuing a stolen car in Riverside, California when two people inside jumped out and started running, the officers tracked her to

this backyard where, yes, this is what she`s doing. She`s crawling into the doghouse. They didn`t actually see her until they lit up the infrared from

the chopper above and tried to release the canine on her, but that got her out. She crawled right out and complied with the officers. The homeowner

actually, where this all happened, who caught this video said that she watched the drama actually unfold, looking at the video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Got our shotgun out, I got the baseball bat and if she somehow managed to come into our house, we were ready. Oh, we got little

dogs, they are very fierce and mighty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, the woman also said that -- that the lady in the doghouse told her husband something as she was being led away by the police that

gave her quite a laugh. He said that suspect said, sorry and you have a nice doghouse. That will not help, because she is facing obstruction

charges, because she ran from the officers.

The driver who she was with, by the way, was arrested in the yard next door, we don`t think he was in the doghouse, but he was charged with

evading police and driving a stolen car.

19 days, five people injured, two others dead and now it is officially over. The reign of terror that seized Austin, Texas for nearly three weeks

as package bombs blew up, one after another has now come to an explosive end. And that`s because the killer, Mark Anthony Condit, decided to use his

deadly skills on himself and detonated the device inside his owner car while sitting behind the wheel surrounded by the Texas SWAT Team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN MANLEY, CHIEF, AUSTIN POLICE DEPARTMENT: While we were waiting for those vehicles to get here, much time had passed and the vehicle started to

drive away. We began following the vehicle, again waiting to get the tactical vehicles here so we could take this -- make a stop. However the

vehicle ended up stopping in the bar ditch on the side of the road behind us.

As members of the Austin Police Department SWAT Team approached the vehicle, the suspect detonated a bomb inside the vehicle, knocking one of

our SWAT Officers back and one of our SWAT Officers fired at the suspect as well. The suspect is deceased and has significant injuries from a blast

that occurred from detonating a bomb inside his vehicle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: A combination of good old fashioned police detective work, exquisite forensic and surveillance video unveiled a popcorn trail that led

right back to the bomber, before he was able to kill anyone else, or so we think. Here`s the problem, police at this point are not exactly sure if any

more of the deadly packages are still out there on a mail somewhere or on a delivery truck somewhere or on someone`s front doorstep.

[18:05:08] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR GONZALES, MAYOR, CITY OF PFLUGERVILLE, TEXAS: We encourage everyone, if you see something, say something. What may seem suspicious to you could

be an important detail to help in this investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We still don`t know the motive and why a seemingly friendly clean cut young man resorted to such a fate of terror and violence. CNN

correspondent, Nick Watt, joins me now live from Pflugerville, Texas, where this actually happened where the suspect blew himself up. Nick, do we know

anything yet about, you know, his home and what they may have found when they undoubtedly went through it with a fine tooth comb?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, we do, we have just found out. We know, because we were here this morning, that ATF, FBI, SWAT Teams

have been in that house all morning. We were originally quit close, we could hear on the bullhorn saying, come out with your hands up. We don`t

know who they were saying that to. They have pushed us further back and back and back all day and now we know why and it is because they found in

the home -- they found explosive components.

Not any completed devices, but a lot of components. They were a little sketchy on the detail. I mean, you know, we asked -- and listen, the

roommate, did they know, would they have to have known that this guy was building bombs? They said well, most of the components were in one room,

there was a lock on the door at one room, but those roommates have been detained and questioned.

One of them has been released, had been arrested, detained and questioned as police try to figure out why this guy did it. What his motives were. We

now know, how he did it. He made small pipe bombs out of components that he bought in hardware stores. They say they`re now doing a check of his

internet searches, to figure out how he learned how to do it, but Ashleigh, his motive is still unclear.

BANFIELD: That`s going to be the big question everybody wants to have answer, this, why would somebody do this? Why would someone set out to

purposely kill people? Because, that is what the officers are saying about this bomb. They were not meant to hurt. They were meant to kill.

I do want to mention, Nick, just another note about that search of the home. Police seen that there were locked rooms, so it`s hard to tell if

perhaps those roommates were, you know, forbidden to go in to some other places where the bomb making was happening and thus be oblivious to what

was happening in their own home.

There is also the notion that they discovered, through putting all this components back together from the exploded ordinance and then the

unexploded bomb that they found, that these were, what you said, pipe bombs, using batteries and smokeless powder, distinctive shrapnel, mouse

trap-like switches and clothes pin like switches. I want to just play if I can, Special Agent in Charge with the Houston Field Division, Fred

Milanowski, in what he had to say about the uniqueness about the bomb and then of course the similarities of these bombs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRED MILANOWSKI, ATF SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, HOUSTON FIELD DIVISION: So the ATF explosive experts, working with the FBI bomb technicians have been

able to reconstruct all his devices throughout this investigation. So, that is how we know what the components are. I know to the public, they may look

all different, but when you look at the internal components, they are very similar to us and from laboratory analysis, we know that it`s the same

person who manufactured this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So Nick, the bombs that might be still out there, I know that -- listen, that communities, obviously thrilled that the reign of terror is

over with his death, but that doesn`t mean that there are not still bombs out there in the system. What`s happening right now to prevent anyone else

from getting hurt or killed by things he may have left behind?

WATT: Well, authorities are telling people in and around Austin to remain vigilant. Remember, to begin with, it was just packages left on people`s

porches. So, we were told, everyone was told, be aware of packages on porches. Then there was the trip wire, Sunday night. Then there were this

packages sent through FedEx.

So, people are being told to still remain vigilant while this investigation continues. But, also around here, Ashleigh, there is just shock that this

quiet 23-year-old kid could have been responsible for this.

We spoke to some neighbors and said, yes, he was a nice kid. My grandchildren used to play with him. We also spoke to the suspect`s

grandmother and she said, yes, he was a deep thinking young man who was trying to figure out what to do with the rest of his life. Tragically, we

now know what he did with the rest of his life, but we still do not know why and that is still one of the main -- main targets to this investigation

to figure out a motive.

And are told -- we were told about an hour ago that we might expect some movements, some announcement on that sometime perhaps later today. They

didn`t give a time frame, but they said, they are working on that and we should expect to hear some answers at least, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: OK. Nick Watt, stand by for a moment, if you will. You were talking about some of the family members and neighbors describing this

murder, Mark Anthony Condit, 23-years-old, as quiet, friendly.

[18:10:00] Here`s something from his family. They sent out a statement via an aunt who doesn`t want her full name used, I think understandably given

the monstrous actions that he perpetrated before killing himself. Here`s the statement that they wanted the public to have.

"We are devastated and broken at the news that our family could be involved in such an awful way. We had no idea of the darkness that Mark must have

been in. Right now, our prayers are for those families that have lost loved ones. For those impacted in any way and for the soul of our Mark."

I want to bring in retired FBI agent and profiler, Marry Ellen O`Toole. Does any of this makes any sense to you Marry Ellen, hearing the kind of

guy they are all describing? And then, seeing the trail of death and destruction that he left behind?

MARRY ELLEN O`TOOLE, RETIRED FBI AGENT AND PROFILER: Yes, absolutely makes sense. We used to see this in many cases with serial offenders. When people

are introverted, they wouldn`t allow other people to see what they were up to. So, they could muster together and a nice sponsor, friendly hello, just

to keep people at arm`s length, just so they could maintain the secret life and spend time doing what they wanted to do which is planning their murders

or planning their bomb making.

BANFIELD: Yes, I want to play if I can, something from the Austin police chief. Brian Manly obviously addressed the community and where they are

now. I mean, this is not over although it feels over. It`s certainly not over. And this community still has some work ahead it, just in terms of

trying to get past the existing ordinance that may still be out there. Package bombs that could still be in the mail or the FedEx delivery site or

any of the other delivery services. So, here`s what the Austin police chief had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANLEY: We want the community to remain vigilant, but I also want to look at where we are now in Round Rock and remind our neighboring communities at

Round Rock, in Cedar Park and the other cities that we do not know where he has been in the past 24 hours and we need your communities to remain

vigilant as well. And again, if you see something that looks suspicious, if you see something that is out of place, if you see something that gives you

concern, call 911 and let us know, so that we don`t experience anymore tragedies in our communities, because we have far too many over the past

three weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Marry Ellen O`Toole, some things that stood out from a blog post that Mark Condit wrote when he was 17 years old. I don`t know if are the

FBI profiler could read into anything here, but you know, clearly you want to comb through everything about this guy, to figure out, what on earth

could have create a motive for this kind of -- this horror.

He wrote that he was a conservative that he was against gay marriage, he was against abortion and he favored the death penalty which is fascinating

given that he exacted his crimes in Texas and ultimately got a death penalty for it, blew himself up. His only brush with the law though was a

traffic citation. Expired registration. It`s just not the kind of person, Marry Ellen O`Toole, that you would think would do this.

O`TOOLE: Well, but here`s something that is really important. The absence of a criminal -- a formal criminal record or rap sheet, the absence of a

rap sheet, does not mean that criminal behavior is absent. So the fact that there is no formal arrest on him charges, does not mean that he didn`t

engage in criminal behavior. And often time`s people think that we are going to find a trail of crimes, following somebody like this. That is not

the case a lot of times.

BANFIELD: Let me bring in Sara Azari, defense attorney from Los Angeles. Sara, there`s one thing that I think is critical in this story, that is

being under played and it is, what law enforcement did to catch this guy and ultimately to neutralize him. That is the euphemism that`s usually used

when either they take someone out or that someone takes himself.

And just for comparative purposes, Sara, Ted Kosinski sent package bombs for 17 years. From 1978 to 1995, he killed three people and he injured 23

people. Mark Condit on the other hand, he only had 19 days before we caught up with him. He killed two, he injured five and he himself is now dead,

he`s not at the Super Max and I think that speaks volume to gunshoo (ph) policing that they did to catch him.

SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I think we have come a long way, right? I think that -- that we are able to stop these far quicker than we used to

before more people are taken out. So, I`m in agreement beyond that.

[18:15:06] BANFIELD: Yes, apparently they just found out and got receipts from stores, looking for this bomb components. They just sent detectives

all over Austin --

AZARI: Right.

BANFIELD: -- looking at stores for these particular components and when the receipt started to match and the person match, then they went to the

videotape, then they went to the cell signal, then they went through his I.P. address and found him searching for naughty things.

So, I mean, to be -- to be able to do it that quickly, sure does tell us about our new age forensics and how you just can`t get away. No matter you

wear gloves, like he was wearing in this picture, no matter whether you put a hat on, no matter whether you had some kind of a disguise --

AZARI: Right.

BANFIELD: -- you are a dead man, one way or the other, effectively, you`re a dead man. Sara, stand by, if you will. My thanks to Nick Watt, to Mary

Ellen O`Toole.

We see a lot of stories about bad people who are accused of doing bad things, but the crime spree that this guy allegedly went on, left our head

spinning. Assault, carjacking, robbery, burglary, lying to police and possibly murder of his girlfriend, a kindergarten teacher. The details of

Charlie Malzahn wild week on the run is coming up next.

And also, you can now listen to our show any time. Download our podcast on Apple Podcast, IHeartRadio, Stitcher, TuneIn or wherever you get your

podcasts for your Crime and Justice fix.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Charlie Malzahn was a ticking time bomb. Just ask his sister or his nephews or just ask that sweet kindergarten teacher who fell in love

with him. If you ask the police, one by one, they all fell victim to Charlie`s nasty meth habit that left a trail of destruction and ultimately

death.

It all started with a call for help when Charlie`s sister said, he carjacked her with her five little kids in the car. And for that episode,

Charlie went to jail. But as he was awaiting trial sitting in that jail, Cathryn Gorospe, that beloved kindergarten teacher in Glendale, Arizona,

paid him several visit and it was clear, she was not just there for some helpful advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE MALZAHN, KILLER: I (BEEP) love you Cathryn. I`m trying to, I`m just trying to be with you no matter whatever time I have. Like I`m trying to be

with you, be good. I`m trying to get my (BEEP) together and I`m worried about you putting life insurance on me and (BEEP) feeding me antifreeze

shakes.

CATHRYN GOROSPE, GIRLFRIEND OF CHARLIE, VICTIM: Leave your body chopped up in pieces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, it wouldn`t be long before Cathryn there, seen leaving the jail would actually bail Charlie out of that jail and then within hours,

Cathryn would mysteriously vanish and the only sign of her popped up in a local shopping mall where Cathryn`s credit cards were used to buy t-shirts

and sunglasses and sneakers, only it wasn`t Cathryn doing the standing at the register. It was her love bird jail bird, Charlie doing the shopping.

And he had a pal and they were caught red handed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any idea why we are talking to you?

MALZAHN: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is your name?

MALZAHN: Kohl Nixon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are lying to us.

MALZAHN: No, I`m not lying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, so your name is Shrakina?

MALZAHN: I figured you guys weren`t real cops -- just messing with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re not real cops?

MALZAHN: I didn`t know. I thought you were mall security.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we look like we are (BEEP) dressed up for Halloween?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were that close to going to jail for false information.

MALZAHN: She`s an older lady. She told me I could spend $1200 on the card.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait. What about the website?

MALZAHN: It`s Cougar Life only.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is that?

MALZAHN: It`s an older lady that I`m dating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m getting her voicemail. She`s not answering, dude.

MALZAHN: It`s her day off. She`s a school teacher.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, she could theoretically answer, right?

MALZAHN: Unless she`s sleeping in. I`ve done nothing wrong, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, he`s caught there in the mall with her credit card, shopping and lying to actual police officers. Not mall cops, they`re police

officers. And we are not exactly sure why those real police officers let Charlie go, despite he was blatantly lying to them on the body cam video,

because the cops say the next thing that happened was, he went on another crime spree, but now he`s been caught. And Cathryn`s body has been found,

miles away in the desert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT CORY RUNGE, FLAGSTAFF POLICE DEPARTMENT: I believe that it was in his path, he felt it was a rural area. He may not have known how closely, he

was leaving her to an actual populated area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, right now it sure doesn`t look like there is anyone from the internet, Charlie`s family or anywhere else that has a plan to bail

Charlie out of jail any time soon. And the list of charges he is facing, let`s get right to that.

Joining me now investigative reporter, Tom Perumean. Tom, I can`t even put all the charges on one screen and I can`t even put them all in one script,

I will be honest with you, is this just an incredible sort of, spade of crimes that went over days. Who is this guy, Charlie Malzahn?

[18:25:00]TOM PERUMEAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, to start out, he is the son apparently of the chief of the Williams Police Department.

Williams, is a very popular tourist city in Northern Arizona. Grand Canyon Rail Way is in the William, Arizona. And apparently this is how he met

Cathryn Gorospe, because Cathryn Gorospe would go up to Williams and work there during summertime on the Grand Canyon Rail Way. And Malzahn also

working in Williams Food Service.

Now this is really the sad ending of a story about a woman who got trolled by a manipulative psychopath, whose psychopath used her, killed her, stole

her car and spent her money basically on trinkets and garbage.

BANFIELD: It`s just -- it`s so unbelievable to think, I mean, it`s hard to keep it all straight, but I laid it all out there, there is a carjacking

allegation of his sister, her poor little kids are actually having to give a description of the kind of gun that Uncle Charlie had in the car. Then

there is the crime spree that, you know, took him wherever it happened that he is alleged to have killed her and then there is the shopping spree with

her credit cards, then those cops for whatever reason, I will never understand, let him go and there was an additional crime spree and this

one, shocking, that involves another carjacking of an ASU student and then a whole other incident involving a robbery and a burglary. So, it just

seemed as though there was -- he was just hell bent, if the allegations are true. Putting himself into prison forever if not more.

PERUMEAN: Well, we really do know --

BANFIELD: Go ahead, Tom.

PERUMEAN: We definitely know that this man has quite an extensive meth habit. And this -- this clearly may have been driving him, you know, not

just -- not just his meth habit, but -- you know, driving him insane and M.O. is certainly all over this.

Steal a car by force, get to where he needs to go. Steal credit cards, you know, assault people and get their car. All this kind of stuff, so, but,

you know, this is going on across a lot of counties in Arizona. And this is really a trans-state crime spree. I mean, we go from Tempe, to Flagstaff,

to Williams, back, you know, back down to Phoenix, down to Tempe and to Tucson and then back to Tempe when he assaulted the ASU student and saw an

automobile.

BANFIELD: I feel like I have to apologize to our viewers, because to put this map on there and actually list out all of the crimes, we have to make

the writing really small, so that it would literally fit on one screen. I mean, that is how much that this guy accused of doing. And let me just do

this, I going to read out some charges, but there are so many different incidents, I can`t have to let you know which is which.

First for all, we got unlawful flight from a law enforcement vehicle. Aggravated assault, two counts, escape in the first degree, resisting

arrest and before I moved on to the rest of them, Tom Perumean, the assault on the police officers is significant. I mean when they finally caught him

after everything was said and done. It looks like he went absolutely mad in the booking department. Explain what happened.

PERUMEAN: Yes. He went mad on the booking department and attacked an officer and tried to use the handcuffs to either strangle that officer or

assault that officer or try to bodily injury that officer. That was in the booking -- in the booking section of the police department. That`s, you

know, when he knew his wildlife was over. And it was sometime after that -- that he started to, you know, dropping hints that he might have known where

Cathryn was, he thinks he might have known, all this kind of leading on police before he finally did in fact tell them where she was or at least

give them the area where her body could be found. Once again this is in the north part of the state, its North of Phoenix, it`s on the I-17, which a

community off the I-17, I should say, in Meyer. But, you know, once again, the fact that this man could get from one end of the state to the other

committing crimes all that way along there is just phenomenal.

BANFIELD: It`s pretty astounding. They actually caught him in Cathryn`s SUV and yes, Cathryn`s SUV was bloody as well. So there was that nugget of

evidence, too. When he was in the booking and as Tom just eloquently described, they put cuffs around the officer`s head and neck and then

fought with both officers, injuring both officers.

He also tried to somehow escape the fingerprint room. So there was a lot going on there that probably has added to that list of charges. Now, a

couple of other charges, too. A carjacking at the ASU student. So he is now facing armed robbery, aggravated assault, theft in means of transportation

and leaving the scene of an accident involving damage to unattended vehicles and then another incident, and I don`t even know which one this is

or what it is, but it involves a grocery store and or slash bank, because the charges are robbery and burglary, so, there`s all this.

Let me bring in Steve Moore, my CNN law enforcement colleague, analyst and former FBI agent. Steve, the trail of death and sort of hazard and harm

that he has acted, I`m still stuck on one spot, and that`s the spot where the body cam sees him in the mall with Cathryn`s credit cards.

Honestly, the police don`t know that she`s dead the day before, she has been killed the day before, they don`t know that. But they know that this

pair has a woman`s credit cards. They are lying and giving false names. They are saying something about meeting the woman on Cougar Life only. They

called the number. The get no answer. And they let -- they let him go.

Let me play that moment. Do I have that moment that I can play? It`s almost delicious to watch this. Knowing that they are being recorded. They are

caught. They are in the spider`s lair. Do we have that moment? Can I play it? Don`t have it. Steve, why on earth would police officers let people go

who at the very least lied to them?

STEVE MOORE, FORMER FBI AGENT AND INVESTIGATOR, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it`s confusing to me at a certain point. I can

understand why they felt that he may have had the card lawfully, because he was able to give them the phone number of the owner. When you steal credit

cards, you very rarely find somebody`s cellphone number unless of course you have taken everything, but see that`s a possibility.

In this situation, what the officers are going do is question him until his story makes sense, until his story matches the evidence they have. And I

don`t think they ever got to that point. I think they were -- while they were trying very hard, they never got to a point where things match the

evidence. I agree with you, Ashleigh. I don`t know why he was let go.

BANFIELD: You know, can I just tell you that it`s a little confusing. As I said, this is a lot of crimes over a lot of days with a lot of crazy

videotape, but after he was let go from that moment you were just looking at in the mall, that`s when the other two incidents happened.

That`s when the Arizona State University student was carjacked. The armed robbery aggravated assault, theft, and leaving the scene. And after that,

that`s when the robbery and the burglary happened at the grocery store/bank. I am guessing it may be a store with an ATM --

MOORE: ATM.

BANFIELD: -- and maybe that`s why they call it that. But those two, you know, very serious dangerous crimes happened after he was let go from those

officers --

MOORE: Right.

BANFIELD: -- on that videotape. One thing has escaped me as well. And Steve, I think you might know better than I why that is. No murder charge.

All those charges that I just read but no murder charge. And Cathryn is dead and they have her body. And he is in her bloody SUV and he has her

credit cards. Why no murder charge?

MOORE: Well, because he is -- they got enough to hold him. He is not going to go out on bail on this one. He is going to stay in jail until the trial

happens, until he is charged with that murder. My My blink on this is that the prosecutors are ensuring that they have everything in order before they

prosecute him, before they charge him.

They have got a long time to charge him on this. I`m sure they want to have every T crossed, every I dotted, and that`s when they are going to come

forward with the charges. But, yes, they will charge him. And you`re absolutely right. Frequently when somebody realizes, I had a close call,

pretty soon they are going to be on to me. Then they go on this crazy spree because they know it`s over.

BANFIELD: Right. Hold that thought. I want you to come back in a second. Also, after the break, I am going to bring in Sara Asari because I got a

couple of questions about some other conversations that were captured on that jail house audio.

And it had to do with Cathryn who ended up murdered. Talking about murder herself. Very unusual. There was also that and that victim of the

carjacking. Lest you think that it`s just one more thing, wait until you hear what it was like. That`s next.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You don`t expect to see a beloved kindergarten teacher dead in the desert. But Police in Arizona said that`s exactly how they found

Cathryn Gorospe. Stabbed to death and alone. And their prime suspect is her boyfriend, Charlie Malzahn, freshly sprung from jail.

There seems to be a whole heck of a lot of evidence filing up against him. Not only did Cathryn disappear hours after she bailed Charlie out but

Charlie was caught red-handed using Cathyrn`s credit cards just two days later. Check out the police body cam video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You OK? (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, what is your name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Nickson.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re lying to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not lying to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, so your name is (INAUDIBLE)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I figure you guys aren`t real cops.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are not real cops?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. Thought you were mall security.

[18:39:59] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we look like we are dressed up for Halloween?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were that close to going to jail for false information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: For some bizarre reason, the police let them go from that incident in the mall. And then police say he went on to carjack a young

woman at Arizona State University and then rob yet another establishment. How did investigators ultimately connect all the dots to arrive at Charlie

for all of those crimes and then perhaps even for Cathryn`s murder?

Still with me now, investigative reporter Tom Perumean, CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore, and I want to bring in defense attorney Sara

Azari. Still no murder charge yet, but I think we all need to be a little patient on that one because her blood was in her car and he was found and

brought in driving her car.

But what might be more intriguing is all the other crimes along the way. And I want to play if I can right now, Sara, just pause for a moment,

Shannon McCrea was the college student that was allegedly carjacked by Charlie after the cops let him go from the mall. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON MCCREA, ALLEGEDLY CARJACKED BY CHARLIE MALZAHN: He was holding up the (INAUDIBLE) and he said, I`m so sorry, but I need you to give me your

keys. It was visible that he was on some kind of drug or under the influence of something. He said, give me your keys or I will bash your face

in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Sara, it was visible he was on some kind of drug. His family has said he had a meth problem. Meth keeps coming into the picture over and

over and over again. Does that make one wit of difference?

SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It does not, Ashleigh, and I wish it did for some of my clients, but it doesn`t. I think it will mitigate his state of

mind and his culpability ultimately if he strikes some kind of a deal with prosecution, but being on meth or any substance for that matter is not a

legal defense.

The fact of the matter is this guy was on a rampage, going to different parts of the state and doing the whole slew of crimes as we have seen and

unfortunately being under the influence of meth is not going to be a legal defense for him.

BANFIELD: And it`s not an excuse either. I think maybe even more importantly. Steve Moore, one of the weird things that happened, it`s all

weird, but this kindergarten teacher who ended up dead had been visiting her lover as he was stuck in jail for carjacking his sister, allegedly.

And they had this very odd telephone conversation. Cathryn was heard talking with Charlie and joking about killing each other and maybe even

more sinister, Charlie talks about both of them killing Cathryn`s roommate and actually goes into detail about how they would do the killing of her

roommate together.

Ultimately, Sedith (ph) was the roommate who reported Cathryn missing. But, you know, jail conversations are recorded. Wouldn`t that have been

something that would have give them pause about letting Charlie out of jail, letting Cathryn springing him out of jail after these kinds of

conversations?

MOORE: Absolutely it would have, but there is a difference between recording and listening to it obviously. And they don`t have the type of

manpower to go through and listen to every tape that they got. They use it in situations like this kind of after the fact or when they are suspecting

the prisoner of something.

But, yes, it is kind of strange. But the kind of person who is going to fall for a guy who is sociopathic or has some sign of psychopathy is not

the kind of person who is going to be bothered by this kind of talk, I`m afraid. I mean, she seems to be a wonderful person, but there is something

in her detecting system that says this guy is not a danger to me and that system was defective.

BANFIELD: Tom Perumean, if you are still with me, Charlie was very evasive about where her body was but then ultimately we`re told that he led them to

the body. Is that going to make any difference in this case? Are they talking about mitigate -- I mean, look at the slew of crimes and crimes

scenes. Will it make any difference that he actually did fess up to where she was?

TOM PERUMEAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (via telephone): I really don`t think so. Maricopa County attorney Bill Montgomery is very, very adept at these

kinds of cases. He is very cagey. He is obviously building this case. That`s potentially why we have not necessarily seen that murder charge as

yet. Also depending on the fact that, you know, once again, there could be as many as five counties involved in this with this murder spree.

But as for Cathryn and Charlie engaging in this sort of gallows humor, you know, is that talk among lovers? Is it just she recognized he had a little

bit of a dark side and because she was involved in a relationship with him, you know, would talk with him about that? You know, potentially as a way to

see him and to get through treatment. We just don`t know.

BANFIELD: Gallows humor came back to bite Cathryn Gorospe. She is no longer with us, 44-years-old, a kindergarten teacher, and dead.

[18:45:00] Like I said before, a body in a desert. Tom Perumean, thank you. Steve Moore and Sara Azari, thank you both as well.

A chilling note on a dollar bill. Is it a heartbreaking plea for help from a girl who has been missing for almost two decades? It`s a tiny little

note, but is it a cruel hoax?

[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: When Mikelle Biggs got 50 cents and made a dash for the ice cream truck, it was likely a dream come true. What the 11-year-old honor student

did not know was that a horrifying nightmare was about to play out. Mikelle`s little sister just lost sight of her for a matter of seconds but

that`s all it took for the girl with the toothy grin to vanish.

One of the only things police ever found were those two coins that Mikelle never got to spend on the ice cream. And now nearly two decades after her

disappearance, money is again providing a bizarre clue to this mystery. A $1 bill has turned up nearly 1800 miles away with a child-like nose

scribbled on the front around the edges and it reads, my name is Mikelle Biggs, kidnapped from Mesa, Arizona. I`m alive.

Here`s one problem though with this cryptic message. Mikelle`s first name is spelled wrong. The local reports say Mesa police are investigating as

the Biggs family holds on to hope that this missing girl will in fact be found alive.

Still with me is defense attorney Sara Azari. Sara, is that significant? The fact that the name is misspelled 19 years later, would that mitigate

the effort to really go after this forensically and try to track down this bill which by the way is a 2009 bill, so it could be nine years old, this

message, or it could be last week?

AZARI: That`s right. We don`t know when this message was written. We also don`t know if she wrote it. I hope it`s not a hoax because this would be

one cruel joke. This is a cold case from almost two decades ago, like you said.

And law enforcement has every duty and obligation no matter how old these types of cases are to pay close attention and do everything in their power

to do a very thorough investigation of any piece of evidence that comes across their desk.

And I think that even though there are these signs that perhaps this might be a hoax and this might give false hope, every false hope in this type of

case has to be fully investigated with the hope that maybe one day some piece of evidence will lead to this girl who is now 20 years older than she

was.

BANFIELD: Right. She is 30. She would be 30 today if she`s alive.

AZARI: Right.

BANFIELD: And I want to say if she`s alive and that`s usually what the National Center for Missing and Exploited --

AZARI: Right.

BANFIELD: -- Children wants to say as well. I want to put up what they do a lot. The age progression. I am always fascinated by the pictures. This is

Mikelle as she was seen last at 11 years old, progressed to 14 years old, then progressed to 17 years old and then ultimately the last progression

was from about five years ago.

But even the age progressions -- I mean, that`s really -- it`s a long shot because who knows if she really ends up looking like that, if she gained or

lost weight, if she dyed or cut her hair. Everything can make the biggest difference.

AZARI: Right.

BANFIELD: But this is the kind of thing even if it`s a hoax which would be evil like you said. It does get tips sometimes. It does get it back in the

news and sometimes it solves these cases.

AZARI: Right. Totally. And I think that the police just because of the age of this case sitting on their desk should not discount their efforts --

BANFIELD: Yes.

AZARI: -- in trying to do a full investigation of any tip that really comes across their desk.

BANFIELD: Maybe there will be something on that bill. Standby, Sara, if you will. A California teacher gets what he deserves after he said this to his

students about the United States military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): They`re not like high-level thinkers. They`re not academic people. They`re not intellectual people. They`re the

freaking lowest of our low. Not morally. I`m not saying they make bad moral decisions. Just they`re not talented people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wrong. One more thing, coming up next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. You may not remember Gregory Salcido`s name, but you will certainly remember what he told his students

about the U.S. military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): They`re not like high-level thinkers. They`re not academic people. They`re not intellectual people. They`re the

freaking lowest of our low. Not morally. I`m not saying they make bad moral decisions. Just they`re not talented people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Now Mr. Salcido is officially out of a job. Finally. It took a while, but his comments sparked outrage right across the country including

a couple of my own choice words that I launched at him from this set while back.

You can check out our Facebook page for that and also for Mr. Salcido`s full rant. Get the whole story on Facebook. You can go there. It`s at

Ashleigh Banfield. Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It fell like it was set-up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was shot and killed by a bail bondsman.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The last thing he deserved was to have his life taken from him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His outraged family speaking for the first time, days after the shooter was found not guilty of murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could not prove that she deliberately intended to kill this man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And tonight, they have a message for the bail bondsman. See you in civil court.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had no right taking someone`s life. No right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police body cam video just released.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have done nothing wrong, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was this man using a dead woman`s credit card to buy hundreds of dollars-worth of stuff?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is her day off. She is a school teacher.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What these cops didn`t know, he was suspected of killing that woman the day before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is an older lady that I`m dating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect, the teacher and the jail relationship that turned deadly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are lying to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not lying to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mysterious message on an old dollar bill, could it solve a mystery 19 years old? (INAUDIBLE) vanished, waiting for the ice

cream truck. Now police are wondering if the message is from her but the dollar was found 1,000 miles away. Is it the lead they are looking for or

just another dead end?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to CRIME & JUSTICE.

She shot him in the back and the only witness was her son. That is a pretty tough case to win in court for sure. Had it not been for the Go Pro video

camera that her son had just set up moments before, never ever expecting that it would be used against his mom in a murder case.

But this video was the star witness. Even though jurors watched that mom, a bail bondsman, pull the trigger on her suspect seemingly as he tried to

escape the room. Even though they did that, the juror did not call this murder. Even after hearing all about it on the 911 call.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just shot a man on top of the roof of the Towne Centre. I`m on the third floor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did you say you caught or shot a man?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I shot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was your name, please?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name Chastity. I need you to hurry. I`m a bondsman. He was coming after me. (INAUDIBLE). I shot him. Oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ma`am, I just want to confirm, he is on the roof.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am, he is on the roof.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I have officers headed that way, OK. Can you give me a description of the individual you shot?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is Brandon James Williams. He is wearing a gray tank top and jeans.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what do you dressed in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m in jeans and Budweiser t-shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did you shoot him with a --.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, ma`am. I shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You shot him with a weapon?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a weapon. The weapon is in my office.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Chastity Carey beat the murder rap in court and she walked out the backdoor of that courtroom. But that may not be the last time she sees

a courtroom. And that`s because the family of the man she shot has plans to sue her for his death. And you can bet your bottom dollar that this video

will once again be played in full in front of a brand-new jury.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stand up. Against the wall. Hands behind your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? What do you mean?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turn around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s going on here? Don`t put your hands on me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turn around and put your hands on your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t put your hands on me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Turn around and put your hands on your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why? What are you doing this to me for?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hands behind on your back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you doing this to me for? Holy (bleep).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom! You just shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom, oh, my God.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911. 911! Don`t go out that window. I just shot a man.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: With me now is Scott Mitchell, host of "Mitchell Talks."

Scott, what was her version of what happened in that shooting?

SCOTT MITCHELL, HOST, MITCHELL TALKS (on the phone): Different than what you see. What`s different? You know, this is -- if you look at the

transcript, like I don`t know really how he got the gun, but you know, she turns around and pulls it out of the drawer switching the back. (INAUDIBLE)

lying, you are believe me or your lying eyes. I mean, that`s what we are looking at here. What was testified to the police officer versus what you

see from the Go Pro is not the same thing.

[19:05:09] BANFIELD: So testified to the police officer and glad you mentioned that because we have actually just obtained some of the

questioning video after the incident on the right hand side of your screen. The police took Chastity to the police detachment and started asking her

questions. And of course they videotaped it and now we get to see what she told them happened in that room. And now that you have seen what happened,

listen to what she said happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHASTITY CAREY, DEFENDANT: I just like hopped up and flipped out and he was shoved him and like was shoving me and I don`t even know how he got the gun

and how I had the gun. I just know I pulled the trigger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CAREY: And he went out the window and start hollering at me, you (bleep) shot me. He freaked out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CAREY: Threw his hands up, bunch of showing a bunch of cussing, bunch of kicking, and I don`t know how we ended up behind the desk. I really don`t.

I could have shot my kid. He shoved him and shoved me. Threw his hands like he was going to hit me and started hollering. And I was trying to calm him

down. I`m like we are just going to talk. We ended up behind the desk. He was like shoving me and grabbing and the next thing I know, we have got the

gun in my hand and I pulled the trigger. About the time I pull the trigger, he is going out a window and screaming at me that I shot him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: So Scott, let`s look at the video and go over exactly what she just said. He just hopped up, shoving me, I don`t even know how he got the

gun. These are her words that we just heard and you are seeing the actual event that she is describing to the police in that interview room.

She said he freaked out. There is a bunch of kicking, she says. He could have shot my kid. He shoved him, meaning my kid. He shoved me. He is like

shoving me and grabbing and next thing when I pulled the trigger, he is going out the window. I don`t know how he got the gun.

So Scott, that had to have been played the same way I just did it for the jury. The words she is saying and the view of what`s happening. It was not?

MITCHELL: True. You know, I got the gun. I don`t know how he got the gun. He didn`t have a gun. I mean, he was going for -- he was trying to get out

of there. He was completely surprise and that gun is behind her in a drawer.

BANFIELD: And we never see him shove her, not once. There is always a moment on camera whether he is in the frame or she is in a frame and never

do they meet and then shove. Am I missing something? Is it part of this I`m not seeing?

MITCHELL: I don`t see that. And the first time I saw it a few weeks ago, I was kind of left open mouth. I don`t know what`s going through her head.

But what she described to the police and what you see on that video is not the same universe. It is just not true what she was saying. Whether it was

stress-induced or testimony, but the fact was she looks pretty calm in that video and the fact is she reaches around, grabs that gun, shoot him in the

back.

BANFIELD: And shoot instantly. I mean, it is instantaneous. You grabbed the gun (INAUDIBLE). And it goes off. And the son is just, he was just

devastated by it. He didn`t look shocked at all like anyone was coming at him or his mom before the gun went off. He just looked shocked at the gun

going off.

So there is the instant of the Go Pro, all right. That kid put the go pro in the corner of the room. And believe it or not, as you heard Chastity

Carey in the police investigation room, she didn`t than that go pro was recording. She didn`t know that all the things that she just told the

police could actually be checked on the Go Pro. So if you want to see the reaction to that and see if you can get a read on her, have a look at this

part of the, not interrogation but the questioning of Chastity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you know there was a Go Pro there? Your son?

CAREY: He had it on?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think so.

CAREY: Good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did have it on. I don`t know what`s on it but he did have it on.

CAREY: Good. I`m pretty sure it was still up in the corner. He was playing with it. He`s like look at this moment shows your whole office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sweet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Pretty interesting reaction. I would have thought she would look surprise and maybe worried, but her reaction was good, good, sweet. Maybe

that was just her reaction because what else are you going to say now that your actions are, you know, more like on camera.

I want to bring in Brandon Williams, that`s the young man who was shot, Brandon Williams` ex-wife. Her name is Ashley Melton and with her is

attorney Ramez Shamieh.

Thank you to the both of you for joining me.

Ashley, the question I have for you is a fairly simple one. Although I know there are layers. You are his ex-wife and you are spearheading the civil

lawsuit now against Chastity Carey that said has yet to be file. Tell me why it is you want to sue.

[19:10:21] ASHLEY MELTON EX-WIFE OF VICTIM: Why? Because it is wrong. And hearing of it to begin with, it was said she shot him in the back. And it`s

wrong. What I want is for her and her son to be in jail.

BANFIELD: Why the son?

MELTON: I feel like it was a set up. And he assisted her with the plan.

BANFIELD: So maybe, Ramez, you can help me get through the legal part of all of this because there has been a trial. She was acquitted of murder.

You know, she was facing the death penalty if she was convicted and the jurors said no. They saw that video. They heard her version and they said

no. Why do you think you might do any better with a civil wrongful death case?

RAMEZ SHAMIEH, ASHLEY MELTON`S ATTORNEY: Yes. Well, first of all, there is some other crimes she committed at the time of this video being recorded

that we want to also put pressure on the DA to make sure they go after her for.

Number one, the son was tampering with evidence by messing with the video, try to take it off. Second of all, it`s a crime in Oklahoma under the bail

enforcement act to have an unlicensed bail bondsman who her son was come in and try to enforce a bail. It`s actually a felony.

So we want to make sure the DA, if they are listening, will go after this woman to put her in jail. She belongs in jail. They got it wrong. We also

believe that the family did not take part in this criminal matter. And I think that would have made a huge difference.

Number one, they would find out why Brandon went to Florida or wanted to go to Florida and why this whole incident happened. So that`s why we are

pursuing the case as to put pressure on the DA, put pressure on this woman to make sure she realize what is she did is wrong and to make sure this

doesn`t happen to anybody else.

BANFIELD: So pressure on the DA is one thing. The civil, you know, suit, obviously as our audience is well aware. You can`t put someone in prison

for a civil suit. You can sue for, you know, wrongful death. We all saw O.J. He was acquitted of murder and then he was found responsible if the

civil case that followed.

So I want to read a statement, if I can, from that woman, Chastity Carey`s attorney. You know, effectively in the case he just said, look. What you

don`t see on camera is the reasonable doubt. And that`s the bar you have to reach in a murder case and there is stuff off camera that you can`t see.

But this is what he said to us. No one from Brandon`s family showed up for this trail. The only reason this is an issue now is because Chastity is not

in jail and they want money. She said now that he was such a good man, but she said now he was such a good man but she had to file two protective

orders against him in 2016 and 2017, one of which was a permanent one.

So Ramez, that`s a significant statement from Chastity`s attorney. Do you want to react to that?

SHAMIEH: Yes, I do. It`s an admirable attempt to change the narrative. What this story is about is a little kid who in 15 years when the dust settles

is not going to have a father. When he is applying to law school of to college and he needs his father as guidance, he is not going to have

somebody to guide them through those decisions in life.

And this attorney, what he is trying to do is change the narrative, to throw mud on the wall and make Ashley and her family look bad.

One other thing again I want to point out is that the DA did not reach out to Ashley and or the other family members to participate in the trial. So

obviously, it`s just an attempt to throw mud on the wall.

BANFIELD: I want to play if I can something that happened at the police station again. These are all new videos to us. And we are pretty intrigue

by them. We are always intrigued by behavior, people when they are being, you know, questioned and they may or may not know video was rolling. But

this was the moment where Chastity Carey was being questioned by the police and she had a break. And just she and her son are present in the room and

she is talking to her son. And I think did may speak to her state of mind after the shooting occurred. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just (INAUDIBLE) blood but I think the waters is going to be really cold.

CAREY: Bad time to quit drinking. It`s a shame I don`t drink anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I want to bring in Sara Anzari as well -- Azari. She is in Los Angeles and she is defense attorney.

And Sara, we all know that the bar is different in the civil case, it`s preponderance of the evidence. It is not beyond a reasonable doubt. That

murder case was beyond a reasonable doubt and they struggled with intent. The jurors said so. What do you think about a civil case, though?

[19:15:14] SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think she is good on the civil case. And honestly, I think with respect to the criminal case, she would

have been good on some kind of a manslaughter charge.

BANFIELD: Wait a minute, when you say she, there is two shes, right. We have lawsuit that is being watch by Ashley Melton. She is a she. And then

we have Chastity Carey who is a she. Do you think Chastity is going to be OK? She is going to beat the rap on the civil suit?

AZARI: No, she`s not. No, no, no. I think Chastity is good for it. She is going to be liable in the civil case. And I think that on the criminal

side, had the DA not been so overzealous in charging premeditated first- degree murder, she may have been found guilty of a lesser homicide. Again, I don`t know what the evidence was before the jury (INAUDIBLE).

BANFIELD: I have to leave it there.

Sara, thank you for that. My thanks to Ashley and Ramez as well.

We see a lot of stories about bad people who are accused of doing bad things. But the crime spree to this guy allegedly went on, left our head

spinning - assault, carjacking, robbery, burglary, lying to police and possibly the murder of his girlfriend, who by the way, was a kindergarten

teacher. We have the details of Charlie (INAUDIBLE) wild week on the run coming up next.

Also, you can now listen to our show any time. Download our podcast on Apple podcast, Iheart radio, Tune In, Stitcher or wherever you get your

podcast for your CRIME & JUSTICE fix.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:18] BANFIELD: Charlie Malzahn was a ticking time bomb. Just ask his sister or his nephews or just ask that sweet kindergarten teacher who fell

in love with him. If you ask the police, one by one they all fell victim to Charlie`s nasty meth habit that left a trail of destruction and ultimately

death. It all started with a call for help when Charlie`s sister said he carjacked her with her five little kids in the car. And for that episode,

Charlie went to jail.

But as he was awaiting trial, sitting in that jail, Cathryn Gorospe, that beloved kindergarten teacher in Glendale, Arizona paid him several visits

and it was clear she was not just there for some helpful advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLIE MALZAHN, SUSPECT: I (bleep) love you, Cathryn. I`m trying to, I`m just trying to be with no matter whatever time I have. Like I`m just trying

to be with you, be good. I`m trying to get my (bleep) together. And I`m worried about you putting life insurance on me and then (bleep) feeding me

the antifreeze shakes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leave your body chapped up in pieces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, it wouldn`t be long before Cathryn there seen leaving the jail, would actually bailed Charlie out of that jail. And then within hours

Cathryn would mysteriously vanish. And the only sign of her popped up at a local shopping mall were Cathryn`s credit cards were used to buy t-shirt

and sunglasses and sneakers, only it wasn`t Cathryn doing the standing at the register. It was her love bird, jail bird Charlie doing the shopping.

And he had a pal and they were caught red hand.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is her name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are lying to us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not lying to you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So your name is (INAUDIBLE). We are not real cops. Do we look like we are dressed up for Halloween?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s an older lady. And she told me I could spend $1200 on the card.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait. What about website?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is Cougar life only.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: it is an older lady that I`m dating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m getting her voicemail. She is not answering dude.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s her day off. She is a school teacher.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she should theoretically answer, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unless she is sleeping in. I have done nothing wrong, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: So he is caught there in the mall with her credit cards shopping and lying to actual police officers, not mall cops, real police officers.

And we are not exactly sure why those real police officers let Charlie go despite he was blatantly lying to them on the body cam video. Because the

cops say the next thing that happened was he went on another crime spree. But now he has been caught. And Cathryn`s body has been found miles away in

the desert.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. CORY RUNGE, FLAGSTAFF POLICE DEPARTMENT: I believe that it was in his path. He felt it was a rural area. He may not have known how closely he was

living to an actual populated area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, right now it sure doesn`t look like there was anyone from the internet, Charlie`s family or anywhere else that has a plan to bail

Charlie out of jail any time soon. And the list of charges he is facing, well let`s get to that.

Joining me now investigative reporter Tom Perumean.

Tom, I can`t even put all the charges on one screen. And I can`t even put them all in one script, I will be honest with you. This is just an

incredible sort of spade of crimes that went over days. Who is this guy, Charlie Malzahn?

TOM PERUMEAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (on the phone): Well, to start out, he is the son apparently of the chief of the Williams police department.

Williams is very a popular tourist city in Northern Arizona. Grand King in railways is in Williams, Arizona. And apparently, this is how he met

Cathryn Gorospe because Cathryn Gorospe would go up to Williams and work there during the summer times on the Grand Canyon railway and Malzahn was

also working in Williams in food service.

This is really the sad ending of a story about a woman who got trolled by a manipulative psychopath. The psychopath used her, killed her, stole her car

and spent her money basically on trinkets (ph) and garbage.

[19:25:38] BANFIELD: It`s just - it is so unbelievable to think - I mean it is hard to keep it all straight. But I laid it all out there. There is a

carjacking allegations of her sister. Her poor little kids are actually having to give a description of the kind of gun that uncle Charlie had in

the car. Then there is the crime spree that, you know, took him wherever it happened that he is alleged to have killed her. Then there is the shopping

spree with her credit cards. Then those cops for whatever reason, I will never understand, let him go. And then there is an additional crime spree.

And this one is shocking that involved another carjacking of an ASU student. And then a whole other incident involving a robbery and a

burglary. So it just seemed as though there was this -- he was just hell bent if the allegations are true on putting himself into prison forever if

not more.

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: Go ahead, Tom.

PERUMEAN: We definitely know that this man has quite an extensive meth habit. And this clearly was - this clearly may have been driving him, you

know, not just his meth habit, but you know, driving him insane. And his MO is certainly all over this. Steal a car by force, get to where he needs to

go, steal credit cards, you know, assault people, get their car. All this kind of stuff.

But, you know, this is going on across a lot of counties in Arizona and this is really a trans-state crime spree. I mean, we go from Tempe to

Flagstaff to Williams back, you know, back down in the Phoenix down to Tempe, down to Tucson and then back into Tempe when he assaulted the ASU

student and so an automobile.

BANFIELD: OK. Look, I have to apologize to our viewers because to put this map on there actually list out all of the crimes, we had to make the

writing really small so it would literally fit on one screen. I mean, that is how much this guy is accused of doing.

And let me just do this. I`m going to read out some charges. But there are so many different incidents, I kind of have to let you know which is which.

First of all, we got unlawful flight from a law enforcement vehicle, aggravated assault two counts, scape in the first degree, resisting arrest

and before I move on to the rest of them, Tom Perumean, the assault on the police officers is significant. I mean, when they finally caught him after

everything was said and done, I mean, it looks like he went absolutely mad in the booking department. Explain what happened.

PERUMEAN: Yes. He went mad in the bookings department attacked an office and tried to use the handcuffs to either strangle the officer or assault

that officer bodily or try to bodily injury that officer. That was in the booking section - police department. That`s, you know, when he knew his

wild ride was over. And it was sometime after that that he started, you know, dropping hints that he might have known where Cathryn was, the things

he might have known, all this had a leading on police before he finally did in fact tell them where she was or at least give them the area where her

body could be found.

Once again, this was in the north part of the state. It is north of Phoenix. It is on the I-17. It`s a community off the I-17, I should say in

Mire. But you know, once again, the fact that this man could get from one end of the state to the other committing crimes along the way along there

is just phenomenal.

BANFIELD: It is pretty astounding. They actually caught him in Cathryn`s SUV. And yes, Cathryn`s SUV. It was bloody as well. So there is that nugget

of evidence, too. When he was in that booking and then as Tom just eloquently described, they put the cuffs around the officer`s head and neck

and then fought with both officers, injuring both officers. He also tried to somehow escape the fingerprint room. So there was a lot going on there

that probably has added to that list of charges.

Now, there is a couple other charges too. A carjack of the ASU student. So he is now facing armed robbery, aggravated assault, theft of means of

transportation and leaving the scene of an accident involving damage to unattended vehicle. And then another incident, and I don`t even know which

one this is or what it is, but it involves a grocery store and/or bank, because the charges are robbery and burglary. So there is all this.

Let me bring in Steve Moore, my CNN law enforcement colleague, analyst and former FBI agent.

Steve, the trail of death and sort of hazard and harm that he`s acted, I`m still stuck on one spot, and that`s the spot where the body cam sees him in

the mall with Cathryn`s credit card. Honestly, the police don`t know that she`s dead the day before. She`s been killed the day before. They don`t

know that. But they know that this pair has a woman`s credit cards, they`re lying and giving false names. They`re saying something about

meeting the woman on Cougar Life only. They call the number, they get no answer, and they let -- they let him go. Let me play that moment. Do I

have that moment that I can play? It`s almost delicious to watch this knowing that they are -- they`re being recorded, they`re caught. They`re

in the spider`s lair. Do we have that moment? Can I play it? Don`t have it. But Steve, why on earth would police officers let people go who have,

at the very least, lied to them?

STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, it`s confusing to me at a certain point. I can understand why they felt that he may have had

the car lawfully because he was able to give them the phone number of the owner. When you steal credit cards, you very rarely find somebody`s cell

phone number unless, of course, you`ve taken everything. But see, that`s a possibility. In these situations, what the officers are going to do is

question him until his story makes sense. Until his story matches the evidence they have. And I don`t think they ever got to that point. I

think they were -- while they were trying very hard, they never got to a point where things matched the evidence. And I agree with you, Ashleigh.

I don`t know why he was let go.

BANFIELD: Can, you know, can I just tell you that it`s a little confusing, as I said this is a lot of crimes over a lot of daze with a lot of crazy

videotape, but after he was let go from that moment you were just looking at in the mall, that`s when the other two incidents happened. That`s when

the Arizona State University student was carjacked. The armed robbery, aggravated assault theft and leaving the scene. And then after that,

that`s when the robbery and the burglary happened at the grocery store/bank. I`m guessing it might be a story with a -- with a -- an ATM,

and maybe that`s why they call it that. But those two, you know, very serious dangerous crimes happened after he was let go from those officers

on that videotape. And one thing has escaped to me as well, and Steve, I think you might know better than I why that is no murder charge. All those

charges that I just read, but no murder charge. And Cathyrin`s dead and they have her body. And he`s in her bloody SUV and he has her credit

cards. Why no murder charge?

MOORE: Well, because he is -- they`ve got enough to hold him. He`s not going to go out on bail on this one. He`s going to stay in jail until the

trial happens, until he`s charged with that murder. My blink on this is that the prosecutors are ensuring that they have everything in order before

they prosecute, before they charge him. They`ve got a long time to charge him on this and I`m sure they want to have every T-cross, every I-dotted,

and that`s when they`re going to come forth with the charges. But yes, they will charge him. And you`re absolutely right. Frequently, when

somebody realizes, oh, I`ve had a close call, pretty soon they`re going to be on to me. Then, they go on these crazy sprees because they know it`s

over.

BANFIELD: Right. Hold that thought. I want you to come back in a second. And also, after the break, I`m going to bring in Sara Azari because I got a

couple of questions about some other conversations that were captured on that jailhouse audio. And it had to do with Cathyrin who ended up murdered

talking about murder herself. Very unusual. There`s also that, and that victim of the carjacking. Less you think that it` just one more thing,

wait till you hear what it was like, up next.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You don`t expect to see a beloved kindergarten teacher dead in the desert, but police in Arizona say that`s exactly how they found Cathryn

Gorospe. Stabbed to death and alone, and their prime suspect is her boyfriend, Charlie Malzahn, freshly sprung from jail. There seems to be a

whole heck of a lot of evidence piling up against him. Not only did Cathryn disappear hours after she bailed Charlie out, but Charlie was

caught red handed using Cathryn`s credit cards just two days later. Check out the police body cam video.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POLICE OFFICER: Do you have any idea why (INAUDIBLE) someone?

POLICE OFFICER: Relax. (INAUDIBLE) OK?

CHARLIE MALZAHN, MURDER SUSPECT: I have no idea. No.

POLICE OFFICER: OK. What is your name?

MALZAHN: Paul Nickson (ph).

POLICE OFFICER: You`re lying to us.

MALZAHN: I`m not lying to you.

POLICE OFFICER: OK. So, your name is Shaquina, Shaquala?

MALZAHN: I figured you guys weren`t real cops and just messing with me.

POLICE OFFICER: We`re not real cops?

MALZAHN: I didn`t know. I thought you`re mall security.

POLICE OFFICER: Do we look like we`re (BLEEP) dressed up for Halloween?

POLICE OFFICER: You were that close to going to jail for false information.

MALZHAN: (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[19:40:00] BANFIELD: For some bizarre reason, the police let them go from that incident in the mall. And then, police say he went on to carjack a

young woman at Arizona State University, and then, rob yet another establishment. So, how did investigators ultimately connect all the dots

to arrive at Charlie for all of those crimes and then perhaps even for Cathryn`s murder.

Still with me now, Investigative Reporter Tom Perumean and CNN Law Enforcement Contributor Steve Moore, and I want to bring in Defense

Attorney Sara Azari. Still no murder charge yet, but I think we all need to be a little patient on that one because her blood was in her car and he

was found and brought in driving her car. But what might be more intriguing is all the other crimes along the way. And I want to play if I

can right now -- Sara, just pause for a moment -- Shannon McCrea was the college student that was allegedly carjacked by Charlie after the cops let

him go from the mall. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON MCCREA, ALLEGEDLY CARJACKED BY CHARLIE MALZAHN: He was holding up this expandable baton and he said I`m so sorry, but I need you to give me

your keys, and it was visible that he was on some kind of drug or under the influence of something. He said give me your keys or I`m going to bash

your face in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Sara, it was visible he was on some kind of drug. His family has said he had a meth problem. Meth keeps coming into the picture over

and over and over and over again. Does that make one wit of difference?

SARA AZARI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It does not, Ashleigh. You know I wish it did for some of my clients, but it doesn`t. I think it will mitigate his

state of mind and his culpability ultimately if you were to strike some kind of a deal with the prosecution. But being on meth or any substance

for that matter, is not a legal defense. The fact of the matter is, is this guy was on a rampage going to different parts of the state and doing

the whole slew of crimes as we`ve seen. And unfortunately, being under the influence of meth is not going to be a legal defense for him.

BANFIELD: And it`s not an excuse either.

AZARI: Definitely not.

BANFIELD: And I think maybe even more importantly. So, Steve Moore, one of the weird things that happened -- well, it`s all weird, but this

kindergarten teacher who ended up dead had been visiting her lover as he was stuck in jail for carjacking his sister, allegedly. And they had these

very odd telephone conversations. Cathyrin was heard talking with Charlie and joking about killing each other. And maybe even more sinister, Charlie

talks about both of them killing Cathyrin`s roommate and actually goes into detail about how they would do the killing of her roommate together. Now,

ultimately, you know, see, that was the roommate who reported Cathyrin missing. But, you know, jail conversations are recorded. Wouldn`t that

have been something that would have given them pause about letting Charlie out of jail, letting Cathyrin spring him out of jail after these kinds of

conversations?

MOORE: Well, absolutely, it would have. But there`s a difference between recording it and listening to it, obviously. And they don`t have the type

of manpower to go through and listen to every tape that they`ve got. They use it in situations like this kind of after the fact or when they`re

suspecting the prisoner of something. But, yes, it is kind of strange. But the kind of person who is going to fall for a guy who is sociopathic or

has some sign of psychopathy is not the kind of person who is going to be bothered by this kind of talk, I`m afraid. I mean, she seems to be a

wonderful person but there`s something in her -- in her detecting system that says this guy is not a danger to me and that system was defective.

BANFIELD: Tom Perumean, if you`re still with me, you know, Charlie was very evasive about where her body was, but then ultimately, we`re told that

he led them to the body. Is that going to make any difference in this case? Are they-- are they talking about mitigating -- I mean, look at the

slew of crimes and crime scenes. Will it make any difference that he actually did fess up to where she was?

TOM PERUMEAN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: I really don`t think so. Maricopa County`s county attorney Bill Montgomery is very, very adept at these kinds

of cases. He`s very cagey so he is obviously building this case piece by piece. That`s potentially why we have not necessarily seen that murder

charge as yet. Also, depending on the fact that, you know, once again, there could be as many as five counties involved in this -- with this

murder spree. But as for Cathyrin and Charlie engaging in this sort of gallows humor. You know, is that -- is that talk among lovers? Is it just

that -- is it, you know, is it just she recognized he had -- he had a little bit of a dark side and because she was involved in a relationship

with him, you know, could -- would talk with him about that. You know, potentially, as a way to see him and to get through to treatment. We just

don`t know.

BANFIELD: Right. Gallows humor came back to bite Cathyrin Gorospe. She`s no longer with us. 44 years old, a kindergarten teacher and dead. Like I

said before, a body in the desert.

Tom Perumean, thank you. Steve Moore and Sara Azari, thank both as well.

[19:45:03] A chilling note on a dollar bill. Is it a heart-breaking plea for help from a girl who`s been missing for almost two decades? It`s a

tiny little note, but is it a cruel hoax?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:09] BANFIELD: When Mikelle Biggs got $0.50 and made a dash to the ice-cream truck, it was likely a dream come true. What the 11-year-old

honor student did not know was a horrifying nightmare was about to play out. Mikelle`s little sister just lost sight of her for a matter of

seconds. But that`s all it took for the girl with the toothy grin to vanish. One of the only things police ever found were those two coins that

Mikelle never got to spend on the ice cream. And now, nearly two decades after her disappearance, money is again providing a bizarre clue to this

mystery. A $1.00 bill has turned up nearly 1800 miles away with a child- like note scribbled on the front around the edges. And it reads, "My name is Mikel Biggs kidnapped from Mesa, Arizona. I`m Alive."

Here`s one problem, though, with this cryptic message. Mikelle`s first name is spelled wrong. The local reports say Mesa police are investigating

as the Biggs family holds on to hope that this missing girl will, in fact, be found alive. Still with me is defense attorney Sara Azari. Sara, is

that significant, the fact that the name is misspelled 19 years later, would that mitigate the effort to really go after this forensically and try

to track down this bill? Which by the way, is a 2009 bill, so it could be nine years old, this message, or it could be last week.

AZARI: That`s right. We don`t know when this message was written. We also don`t know if she wrote it. I hope it`s not a hoax because this would

be one cruel joke. But on the other hand, this is -- this is a cold case from almost two decades ago like you said and law enforcement has every

duty and obligation no matter how old these types of cases are to pay close attention and do everything in their power to do a very thorough

investigation of any piece of evidence that comes across their desk. And I think that even though there are these signs of, perhaps, this might be a

hoax, and this might get false hope, every false hope in this type of a case has to be fully investigated with the hope that maybe one day, some

piece of evidence will lead to this girl who`s now, you know, 20 years older than she was when she was (INAUDIBLE)

BANFIELD: Yes, she`s 30. She would be 30 today if she`s alive.

AZARI: Right.

BANFIELD: And I want to say if she`s alive and that`s usually what the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children wants to say as well. I

want to put up what they do a lot, the age progression. I`m always fascinated by these pictures. This is, you know, Mikelle as she was seen

last at 11 years old, progressed to 14 years old, then progressed to 17 years old, and then, ultimately, the last progression was from about five

years ago. But even the age progressions, I mean, that`s really -- it`s a long shot because who knows if she really ends up looking -- if she gained

or lost weight, if she dyed or cut her hair. I mean, everything can make the biggest difference. But this is the kind of thing even if it`s a hoax,

which would be evil, like you said, it does -- it does get tips sometimes. It does get this back in the -- you know, in the news. And sometimes it

solves these cold cases.

AZARI: Right. Totally. Yes and I think that the police just because of the age of this case sitting on their desk should not discount their

efforts --

BANFIELD: Yes.

AZARI: -- in trying to do a full investigation if any --

BANFIELD: To drill down.

AZARI: -- that really comes across their desk.

BANFIELD: Maybe there will be something on that bill. Stand by, Sara, if you will.

A California teacher gets what he deserves after he said this to his students about the United States military.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GREGORY SALCIDO, HISTORY TEACHER, EL RANCHO HIGH SCHOOL, PICO RIVERA: They`re not like high-level thinkers. They`re not academic people.

They`re not intellectual people. They`re the freaking lowest of our low, not morally, you know, I`m not saying they make bad moral decisions, just

they`re not talented people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wrong. "ONE MORE THING," coming up next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, and it is proof positive if you trash talk the U.S. military in front of a classroom full of high

schoolers, you better be prepared to face the consequences.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SALCIDO: They`re not like high-level thinkers. They`re not academic people. They`re not intellectual people. They`re the freaking lowest of

our low, not morally, you know, I`m not saying they make bad moral decisions, just they`re not talented people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Really? Gregory Salcido`s anti-military rant went viral. And now, it has cost Mr. Salcido his job. His comments sparked outrage right

across the United States. Including my own choice words that I had for him on this program. And if you want to see them, feel free to check out our

Facebook page, @ashleighbanfield, for the full rant that he had and my full rant right back at him.

Thanks for watching, everybody. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. So nice to have you here. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night 6:00 Eastern for CRIME &

JUSTICE. Meantime, "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.

END