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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Gunman Shot Dead In France After Rampage Kills Three People; ISIS Calls France Attacker A Soldier, Offers No Evidence; Trade War Fears; Trump Appoints New National Security Adviser; Trump Appoints New National Security Adviser; Trump: Will Never Sign A Bill Like That Ever Again. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired March 23, 2018 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN HOST: Hello and welcome, everyone. I'm Hala Gorani live tonight from Paris. France is dealing with yet another terrorist attack on
its soil. Three people are dead after a series of attacks in Southern France on this Friday.
It culminated in a four-hour standoff at a supermarket before police shot the gunman dead. He is named as a 26-year-old Redouane Lakdim. Here is
what we know. On Friday morning, the attacker hijacked a car killing one person inside the car and injuring another.
And then not far from that, he shot a group of police officers, who are out jogging in the town of (INAUDIBLE). The car tried to run officers down.
One person was wounded and then the gunman drove to a supermarket (INAUDIBLE). He entered the market shouting, "Allahu Akbar."
This is all, by the way, information I'm bringing to you for the public prosecutor. He killed two people inside. He took several people hostage.
A police officer agreed to give himself over to the gunman in exchange for the release of hostages and that officer entered the supermarket and then
shot the gunman.
French President Emmanuel Macron returned to Paris from Brussels earlier than expected. He condemned the attack and he praised authorities on the
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EMMANUEL MACRON, FRENCH PRESIDENT (through translator): Our country has been struck today by an Islamist terrorist attack. The courage of one
particular senior police officer who voluntarily took the place of other hostages and who was very seriously wounded. He saved lives and he does
honor to his force and his country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Jim Bittermann is here with me in Paris following the very latest. So, it was a three-part attack and it culminated in this very long standoff
in the supermarket where t gunman took hostages.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. The first person, one of the first people on the scene was this Lieutenant
Colonel Arnault (ph) Bertrand, who is the lieutenant colonel who was the head of (INAUDIBLE) and he was on the scene, and saw the situation
And the gunman at that point had one hostage left. There were 50 or so people in the store when this all began. They managed to escape. He was
holding on to one woman hostage and Lieutenant Colonel Arnault (ph) Bertrand, negotiated an exchange for her with the gunman and he then became
And the gunman trotted him out from the store and said he was killing them and threatened his life and said he's also going to blow up the store
(INAUDIBLE), of course, and then took him back inside and shot him.
At that point, Bertrand had left his cell phone on so that his comrades and the SWAT team could know what was really go on outside would know what was
going on, and as soon as they heard the shot, they kept that line open.
They understood exactly where things were progressing in terms of talking to the gunman. Any case, when they heard the fired, the SWAT Team went
in. Two officers were injured when the SWAT team went in and his lieutenant colonel is now fighting for his life because he was shot several
GORANI: So, he swapped himself in for hostages in that supermarket?
GORANI: And do we know -- the shooter himself, screaming Allahu Akbar and doing this for Syria, said he was doing this in the name of ISIS. What
more do we know about this particular suspect?
BITTERMANN: It is unclear. And the police said they had him on their radar because he was a petty criminal. He's been involved with drugs and
other sort of things that they had -- down as a (INAUDIBLE) a surveillance order back in 2014 or '15, I believe, yet the prosecutor told us there was
nothing in his behavior that indicated he was aiming towards radicalization. So, they had no reason to suspend --
GORANI: He was "fishy" as they say in France, which means they were some suspicions surrounding them.
BITTERMANN: (Inaudible) of the (INAUDIBLE) surveillance and the ideas that you keep these people under surveillance because they may be up to no good.
GORANI: All right. Jim Bittermann, thanks very and we'll stay in close touch for the very latest.
Our analyst, Paul Cruickshank is joining me now live. Paul, this script is one we've written before and we've heard before, petty criminal, in his
20s, spent some time jail, had some sort of low-level felony convictions and was known to perhaps sell drugs, according reports.
[16:05:08] What does this tell us about where ISIS is in its effort to continue to mount attacks in western countries?
PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Hala, it's trying to get people with this kind of profile to mount attacks in Europe and in ISIS' favor,
there are tens of individuals inside Europe who have been flagged seen as potential threats inside the European Union and the 20,000 with about ten
of those thousand seen as potential active threats.
So, it's still a very significant moving forward despite the fact that ISIS has been territorially defeated in Syria and Iraq. They are still trying
to encourage these kinds of attacks through their propaganda.
And he's very clearly saying that he was doing this on behalf of ISIS. It would appear this was an attempt to gain a lot of publicity by taking
hostages, but it's the heroic actions of this French lieutenant colonel which really kind of there wasn't a massacre here.
And that's a huge bravery, one of the most brave actions in this 17-year fight against terrorism and without what he did today, we could have seen
many, many more being killed this individual, it would appear wanted to kill as many people as possible.
GORANI: Where -- so typically you have radicalization that occurs inside prisons and online, and quickly, according to analysts and experts who
track ISIS conversations. There were celebrations on messaging platforms like Telegram that this was actually succeeding ahead, that some ISIS-
inspired type attack had unfolded, quote/unquote, "successfully" as far as they were concerned.
CRUICKSHANK: Yes. I mean, there was a lot of excitement as you might expect on social media from ISIS supporters. There's been a lull in
attacks in Europe since that Barcelona attack in August. They haven't been able to get a big one through so there is a big desire for revenge.
But what we saw played out today was an act of heroism from a French Security Services officer and inspiring thing about today, and that is
something that will inspire a lot more people to place themselves at the service of confronting terrorism -- Hala.
GORANI: Right. (Inaudible) is his name, confirmed to us, to CNN, by a spokesperson at the Interior Ministry for those wondering how we got that
name confirmed lieutenant colonel who swap himself in in exchange for hostages at that supermarket near Toulouse. Thanks very much, Paul
Asiem El-Difraoui is here with me in Paris. Good to see you. So, let's talk a little bit, you know, oftentimes we focus on these petty losers who
are 25 to 30 years old who have, like, drug dealing convictions and things like that.
But I do agree with Paul that on this one, let's spend some time celebrating this particular individual who went in and said give me the
hostages, I'll go in. He is seriously wounded today.
ASIEM EL-DIFRAOUI, FRENCH TERROR EXPERT: Here is wounded hero or the petty loser?
GORANI: No, on the seriously wounded hero.
EL-DIFRAOUI: I mean, he's a really hero. France is very proud about him and it's real dedication of an officer to save innocent civilians.
GORANI: And the reason I'm calling him a petty criminal losers is because on so many levels, that's the profile, isn't it?
EL-DIFRAOUI: But I'm not happy about the term petty loser. Not a loser maybe of his own making. There's a lot of socioeconomic exclusion towards
minorities in France all over Europe --
GORANI: We're not going to go down that path, are we? When we're going to say, I'm agreeing with you, there are a lot of exclusions and socio-
economic discrimination and all sorts of thing, but this type of action cannot be explained by that, can it?
EL-DIFRAOUI: No, it can't, you know, but part of the explanation is definitely socioeconomic discrimination. But then I agree, you know, those
people have very difficult psychological profiles. They want to become heroes just because they want to be in the limelight. In the sense,
they're small people who just want to be star by doing these horrific crimes.
GORANI: Yes. What does it tell us about the state of ISIS? Because it's lost so much territory in Syria and Iraq, there was a lot of celebration
from their cheerleaders on the messages apps like Telegram, but what does it tell us about where they are now in terms of their ability to strike?
[16:10:07] EL-DIFRAOUI: Not much, in reality, you know?
GORANI: Why? They haven't been able to mount --
EL-DIFRAOUI: These kinds of attacks have been happening while ISIS was, you know, you 2015 they were calling on these types of attacks and ISIS was
totally unable to mount large-scale attacks and they're weakened and don't be surprised if there is a cell, you know?
ISIS has infiltrated European countries and there were recent ISIS arrests in Germany for people who were coming a couple of years ago as refugees, so
let's not be sure. This fight will go on for a long time.
GORANI: I think anyone who says there won't be a big-scale attack is -- cannot -- how can you know this?
EL-DIFRAOUI: That's what I'm thinking.
GORANI: It could happen. But that being said --
EL-DIFRAOUI: What about al Qaeda in Yemen? What about (INAUDIBLE) group? What about outer groups.
GORANI: All that being said, when you see on TV and computer screens these other groups? What about other groups? Said, when you see on tv and on
your computer screen and these huddled ISIS captives that have been captured either by the Kurds or the effort or whatever, and this is not a
good advertisement for ISIS group. They're not these heroic in minds of the extremist heroic warriors.
EL-DIFRAOUI: No, it's very good for us, you know? Bin Laden was killed and the caliphate was nearly destroyed, but there are so many other groups
so we shouldn't stop to be vigilant and we really should work in Europe as well as in the United States on long-term prevention.
And it does not only mean explaining to youngsters how dangerous and how totalitarian this ideology is. France is committing more and more efforts
in doing that, but there's real geopolitical variables and the civil war in Syria, and the Turks attacking some Kurdish towns and maybe another window
for ISIS, what about Egypt? Not just a global problem that we need to attack at the root causes.
GORANI: Well said. Definitely the causes and the reasons for the existence of these groups is still very present in that part of the world.
Well, in any case, hopefully have better preventative measures in western countries. Asiem EL-DIFRAOUI, as always, thanks so much. Good seeing you
We are going to take a quick break and we will be right back with my colleague, Hanna Vaughan Jones in London with the rest of the day's news.
Stay with us.
HANNAH VAUGHAN JONES, CNN HOST: Hala, thanks very much indeed.
JONES: Welcome back. We'll go back to Hala Gorani in Paris a little bit later, but for now other news we're following for you tonight. An economic
tit for tat is currently underway between the world's two super powers.
First, U.S. President Donald Trump slapped tariffs on steel and aluminum imported from China. Then on Thursday, he tightened the screw with new
taxes on other goods brought in from China worth up to $60 billion.
[16:15:09] As a result, the global markets nosedived. The Dow closed more than 700 points lower on Thursday and then this Friday, so far modestly
proposing tariffs worth about $3 billion in response to the original round of Trump tariffs.
More is likely to come and that is making investors nervous, indeed. This is how the Dow closed today, down 424. That's lower again today and while
Mr. Trump is acting increasingly hawkishly on China, he's also just appointed new security adviser, his third since his administration began.
John Bolton is the man and he is replacing H.R. McMaster in what is yet another high-profile shake-up of the White House in just the last few days.
Bolton is a controversial pick given his views on Iraq and indeed his views on North Korea.
So, let's discuss all of this with CNN's White House reporter, Stephen Collinson live in Washington for us. Stephen, John Bolton has been around
for some time under various administrations and perhaps his most senior role as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, but might we see a
different John Bolton under this president and under this administration and the Bolton we've seen of old?
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I don't think there's any reason to think that the John Bolton that we're going to see in the White
House is going to change at least in terms of his policy views and his very hard line, as you said, on North Korea and his against the Iran deal and
he's talked about the necessity to bomb Iran to end the program.
He was a very prominent voice in the run-up to the war in Iraq supporting that action and I don't think it's likely that he will change his views
when he gets to the moments when he has the most power in his entire career.
You know, John Bolton is someone who is a very controversial figure in Washington. When he was nominated by President George W. Bush to be the
U.N. ambassador, couldn't get a permanent appointment for that job because the Senate wouldn't confirm him largely because he was seen as somebody who
was very hard on subordinates.
And there was great resistance to him in the diplomatic corps, he's a very hard-charging character, but he's also somebody who knows how to use the
levers of power in Washington so he's going to be a formidable opponent for his adversaries in the administration and he's a very interesting pick.
The one thing that I would say is that what he must learn is that nobody in this administration is allowed to become more prominent and dominant than
the president himself and if he doesn't learn that lesson, I don't think he'd be there for that long.
GORANI: And the president himself speaking earlier on, talking about this spending bill which he has now signed into law. You could argue that
perhaps it was a useful distraction from some of the other rumors scandals in the White House, and he signed it, but wasn't all that pleased about it.
Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I say to Congress, I will never sign another bill like this again. I'm not going to
do it again. Nobody read it. It's only hours old. Some people don't even know what it is -- $1.3 trillion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: So, you can hear there, Stephen, he signed it, but he will never do it again and it's apparent he didn't read it.
COLLINSON: Right. I mean, Donald Trump said he would to drain the swamp. This is a prime example of a swamp product coming out of Congress. You
know, it's a bill that's bloated. The way you get stuff passed in Congress, everyone gets their pet project, and no one really knows what
they're voting for because that's the way you need to get the votes.
Donald Trump was happy to Trump it the things he does want to including increased military spending and more money for fighting the opioid
epidemic, but to get that money, you have to compromise and concede on other things.
What he didn't get in the bill was funding for his border wall which was at the center of his political project, if you like, since he started and
that's one reason he's angry, but if he says he's not going to sign that bill again, if you want to get anything signed in Washington because of the
way, you know, power is distributed, you have to give and take.
JONES: Stephen Collinson, thank you very much. Appreciate your analysis on this. I want to bring some breaking news and this resolves around
activity in the U.K. at the moment. You will, of course, remember Cambridge Analytica, the data firm accused of having used Facebook data in
order to help Donald Trump, perhaps help the campaigns around the world, various campaigns to get elected.
[16:20:12] The U.K. authorities, the Information Commission has been trying to get into Cambridge Analytica's U.K. office for the last week or so to
get to the bottom of this and take documents and they just today managed to get a court order to do that.
We understand at the moment that 18 officers from the U.K. Information Commission or currently searching those offices here in London. We'll
bring you more on that as we get any further detail.
But let's get back to what we were talking about before and the shake-ups in the White House in particular. My next guest has met John Bolton, the
soon to be national security adviser and he's met him personally and he has wide expertise on the Asian region.
Of course, that's interesting because of what we've been talking about with trade wars and the like and the (INAUDIBLE) between the U.S. and China,
which is brewing. Jamie Metzl is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council think tank and joins me from New York. Jamie, great to see you.
Trump says earlier, rather that the relations with China are still great and that everything is still on track, but given John Bolton's appointment,
given the trade wars that are looming, what's your current assessment of not just U.S.-China relations, but U.S.-Asia relations?
JAMIE METZL, SENIOR FELLOW, ATLANTIC COUNCIL: This could be, and this is a very significant turning point in America's relationship, not just with
China, but with Asia. Since the end of the Second World War, the United States has been really the foundation of peace, security and stability in
the Asia-Pacific region.
And that depended on America being a responsible player in that region and in the world, and so, America certainly made sacrifices, but also
contributed through security, through open markets and through all these kinds of things that the United States provided to the world and we
Donald Trump and his administration are looking to redo that deal and for America to behave like in many ways any other country, just with narrow,
nationalist activities and behaviors and so now certainly, they talk of trade, we are not just with China.
China has behaved not well at all and there are reasons for the united states to get tougher on China, but to get tough on China, the United
States needs to do what it's done for so many years, which is to build coalitions around positive values and that's what this administration isn't
JONES: It isn't doing at the moment and if we talked specifically about the tariffs in particular, it was some $50 billion, wide-ranging tariffs
that the U.S. has put on China specifically, but China's response is being quite measured. Are you expecting more to come?
METZL: China is waiting to see what the United States is really doing. The U.S. tariffs won't be applied immediately. There's going to be about a
month of a negotiation process potentially, so China wants to wait and see.
Nobody certainly, China doesn't want to have a trade war with the United States, but at the same time China has gotten away with a lot of bad
behaviors, blocking access for American international companies and forcing technology transfer and stealing intellectual property rights or stealing
intellectual property and keeping America's big tech companies out of the Chinese markets.
So, China has known that the United States at some point will need to get tougher on China, but China also recognizes that President Trump is
weakening America so significantly through his erratic behavior by the tumult within the administration and there are all these threats that have
been made that haven't been carried out.
So, they want to see whether this is real or not, and whether Trump has the political ability and just the capacity within an administration that's in
complete chaos to deliver on these tough words.
JONES: You talk about the chaos within the administration at the moment and the shake-ups going on, I am wondering what you think China might be
making of John Bolton coming into the new role as national security adviser, given the fact that he has been very outspoken in the past at
least about say, North Korea, a proponent of military intervention as opposed to any kind of dialogue and presumably China might be feeling quite
sidelined by what's going on between the U.S. and North Korea right now.
METZL: I don't know if they're feeling sidelined because China still has the cards in many ways for North Korea because China's trade and aid and
energy resources keep North Korea alive. So, whether this meeting happens between North Korea, Kim Jong-un and President Trump happens or not, it's
very clear that North Korea will not be giving up its nukes any time soon.
That the Trump administration has no meaningful strategy so it's not that there's going to be some kind of deal or could be some kind of deal that
[16:25:05] But what I do think is that people all across the region are extremely concerned that the so-called moderates, the relative moderates
and the so-called adults in the room from the Trump administration are all being sidelined, and a series of ideologues are taking their place.
The John Bolton who I know is a very smart, very thoughtful person, but he has been on the aggressive use of military action in Iran, for Iraq, and
North Korea, and this is going to be a very, very difficult situation because the president already has erratic impulses.
Already his administration is under threat because of all of these scandals and he is, in the middle of the night, when decisions are made in the old
days at least you can say there were some people who are trying to moderate their impulses. Now every day, we are losing what limited protection we
have. This is a very, very dangerous situation.
JONES: Yes, exactly. A lot of people saying that the president has just surrounded himself by yes men. Even Kellyanne Conway is saying get with
the program or get out to staff members within the administration.
Jamie, that's what we got time for. Jamie Metzl, we appreciate it. Thanks very much, indeed.
Still to come on the program tonight, after a terror attack in Southern France leaves three people dead, we're asking does France have a specific
problem? Hala Gorani is back live in Paris next.
GORANI: We are live in Paris covering our top story this evening. Three people have been killed in a series of attacks in Southern France on this
Friday. It all ended in a four-hour standoff at a supermarket before lice shot the gunman dead.
He was named as 26-year-old Redouane Lakdim. He was known to authorities and an ISIS affiliated group has claimed he was, quote, "a soldier of their
organization. The attack meant President Emmanuel Macron returned to France from Brussels where he was meeting other European Union leaders. He
has called the incident a, quote, "Islamist terrorist attack" and says, authorities are looking into the ISIS claim of responsibility.
All right. We are going to connect with our Melissa Bell who is on the scene, but joining me now to talk more about this is the former head of the
French Special Force, Frederic Gallois, and he joins me via Skype from Marseille.
What was your immediate thought when you learned of the details of this attack, this man who carjacked a driver and then attacked special riot
police and then drove to a supermarket and took ordinary civilians hostage.
[16:30:00] What went through your mind?
FREDERIC GALLOIS, FORMER HEAD OF FRENCH SPECIAL FORCES: My first thought was to understand that it would be a very difficult situation because the
terrorist claimed as a jihadist. And you know we had a huge experience now in France to deal with such situation. We're one particular region as such
people, like they accept a suicidal operation, they expect to be killed in their operation. They don't want to stay alive. So for the Special Forces
it's a very difficult situation because to save the people, the hostages on face the people -- guys which are waiting for them, waiting to suit them
and who wanted to kill all the people so it's really difficult situation to act on.
GORANI: And there was a heroic police officer, Arnaud Beltrame who was a lieutenant colonel who swapped places with the hostage and ended up
basically, in the end, alone with the gunman even though initially there were 50 people in that supermarket.
GALLOIS: It's an incredible situation because this officer decided himself to swap with a group of hostages and he entered inside the supermarket and
he stopped to speak with the terrorist. It's a very incredible situation, because in the face of such people, he knew that it was like a suicidal
decision. He went directly to the terrorist, because should have seen that the terrorist will not keep him alive, but decided to enter and to swap
with other hostage. He certainly saved the life of many people. It was the end of the operation.
GORANI: Thank you so much, Frederic Gallois, the former head of the French Special Forces speaking to us live this evening from Marseille.
Jim Bittermann is still here with me. And this standoff in the supermarket went on for many, many hours.
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Three hours, I think. And it reminded me very much -- do you remember Amedy Coulibaly?
After the Charlie Hebdo attacks in 2015 and he had shot a police officer on the south side of Paris, a police woman who was -- who died and then held
hostages in the Kosher supermarket and the same kind of modus operandi. He came into the supermarket, shot at this guy and immediately shot a couple
of the people, of the customers of the store as this guy did today, I guess to show -- make a big show of the fact that he was in charge, and he
certainly was for a little while.
GORANI: And I'm sure authorities are going to be looking very closely at this guy's background because he was known to authorities. He'd been
incarcerated for a short period of time for petty crimes, but he was also (INAUDIBLE) what we call in France (INAUDIBLE) which means that he was
suspected of having sympathies with extremist organization.
BITTERMANN: The prosecutor Thomas tonight, no suspicion that he was becoming radicalized or would passed to an act, as they say in France,
they're going to action. So there was no indication that they had, but they had him under surveillance. And, you know, there'll be a lot of
questions, like for instance, where did he get this gun or guns? There may have been more than one, but in any case, where did that comes from? And
who was helping him out amongst his family members and associates and others, if there was anybody and they have taken one person into custody
tonight. One of his close associates and I'm sure that's what the question is going to be about.
GORANI: But we don't know much otherwise, other than that about his family, his background. We know he was 26 years old of Moroccan origin.
BITTERMANN: And the Moroccans said that he was born there and they had him there in 2011, I think it was. He had been there for a return trip and not
any notice that normally would have taken. They just went back to their files to see when he might have come in. So there was nothing that they
were alerted to that indicated he was radicalized.
GORANI: And also he -- the target is a supermarket in a small town. It's not a big high-value, quote, quote, "Target."
BITTERMANN: I know you know this area. I know you know this area. Provence is like this sleepy little town, it's 5,000 people and a sleepy
little supermarket that people are going in a Friday shopping on. And it must have been just an unbelievable turn of events. And I guess it says
something about the awareness of people that the people have the wits to get out of the supermarket that most of the hostages, most of the people in
supermarket fled before they could become hostages.
[16:35:23] GORANI: Well, it must have been terrifying for them and three did lose their lives today.
Jim Bittermann, thanks very much, and I understand Melissa Bell is with us on the phone, is that correct? From near the scene?
No. I think we have -- she is with us, actually, on camera. Melissa, tell us where you are and what you're seeing around you.
MELISSA BELL, CNN PARIS CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're inside Carcassonne, and just in front of the apartment building where the suspect, the man has been
identified as the attacker today lived. This has been a subject of a number of raids by police over the course of the evening, Hala. And even
now, they're positioned all around the apartment building. They say we can't get any closer because the youth that lived here have gathered
outside (INAUDIBLE) we are quite close to the police, but just behind me this apartment building where he lived.
It's understood also and we understood this is from Francois Molins, who was the French prosecutor who spoke earlier that a young woman had been
taken into custody, as well, his girlfriend, the person that he shared his life with and this is where those raids took place, just hours, of course,
after those attacks, those series of attacks, three attacks, the triple attack, of course, that took place, began here in Carcassonne, moved on
just outside with events ending here over the course of the evening. And as I say, still a huge police presence around this apartment building as
authorities tries to piece together precisely the background of the assailant.
GORANI: Because there are other people in custody now, and I guess the big question for authorities, Melissa, is did he act alone? Was he radicalized
alone on his computer? Or was there more of a cell, more of a network behind this?
BELL: Exactly. Understood and it's much clearer now that he was officially what the French called (INAUDIBLE) now, that doesn't mean that
he was a subject of active surveillance, but it does mean that he was on the sort of police computers as someone who might be radicalized and
therefore, if he stopped, was stopped by police say for speeding on a highway, this would immediately be alerted to them if he was stopped trying
to cross the border this, too, would be to alerted to authorities. But of course, it doesn't mean that there is active surveillance of these people
all of the time. And after all, Hala, there are some many thousands of them in France have this (INAUDIBLE) system that is the subject of this
indication to authorities this following of them even if the surveillance is not all of the time active.
We understand that he became (INAUDIBLE) in 2014 for a while that was taken away and then brought back. But on the whole, he was known in terms of
what had got him into trouble for petty crime, for being a small time drug dealer and he'd done time in jail and there was nothing to lead
authorities. We heard it both from the interior minister here on, Hala, and from Francois Molins, the French prosecutor tonight, there was nothing
to lead intelligence agencies, security forces to believe that he was about to act.
GORANI: All right. Melissa Bell there near the scene. Thanks very much for joining us with the latest. And Hannah has the rest of the day's news.
JONES: Hala, thanks very much indeed.
All right. Still to come on the program from London. A new dynamic. That's how the UK Prime Minister, Theresa May is describing Brexit talks
after the EU agrees to a transition deal.
And who needs soap operas with this kind of real-life drama. Former playboy playmate give some stunning details about her alleged affair with
[16:40:06] JONES: Welcome back to HALA GORANI TONIGHT with me Hannah Vaughan Jones live in London for you.
Now, Donald Trump is usually quick to fight back when confronted with the damaging allegations. But so far, silence from the U.S. president after
CNN's explosive interview with the former playboy playmate. Karen McDougal says not only did she have sexual relations with Mr. Trump, but says they
actually had a 10-month long affair starting back in 2006 during which he constantly professed his love for her. McDougal explained to CNN's,
Anderson Cooper why she cried after their first sexual encounter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN MCDOUGAL, FORMER PLAYBOY PLAYMATE: Well, after we had been intimate, he tried to pay me and I actually did not take that.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Did he actually try to hand you money?
MCDOUGAL: He did. He did. And I said -- I mean, I just had this look of -- I don't even know how to describe the look on my face -- must have been
so sad because I had never been offered money like that before, number one. But number two, I thought, does he think that I'm in this for money or why
I'm here tonight? Or is this a normal thing? I didn't know. But I looked at him and I said that's not me. I'm not that kind of girl, and he said,
"Oh," and he said "You're really special." And I was like, "Thank you." So I left, actually got in the car. Keith taking me home and I started
crying. I was really sad. It really hurt me. But I went back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JONES: Well, that is weren't enough, the attorney for another woman who had an alleged affair with Mr. Trump is now taunting and baiting the
president. You guessed it, on Twitter. Athena Jones is following all these developments, joins us now with more. Athena, there's a mounting
course of female accusers doing the media rounds at the moment. Donald Trump is the man we know doesn't usually keep still and let things slide
without saying his peace on this. How on earth is the president going to keep quiet?
ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's a good question, Hannah, it's so interesting to see him be so quite. It is remarkable.
This is uncharacteristic. When it comes to the women who have accused Trump of sexual harassment, or sexual assault, he has been aggressive in
denying those allegations. There was a point in time when he would deny the allegations daily whether on Twitter or in speeches or both. But he
has a very different approach to these women who we're talking about having had consensual relationships with him. He's been far less aggressive. He
has said nothing. He has not tweeted, he has not commented and it really is remarkable and it is very likely that people are advising him not to
tweet or comment about this, but I've also talked to other women and not the women who said that they've had consensual relationships with the
president, but some of the woman who have accused him of sexual misconduct and they say that he likes being associated with these beautiful women in
the headlines. He likes the idea that he's being linked to these women even if it was an affair that started a few months after his own son,
Barron, his most recent son, was born. But it is quite unique to see him not responding here. Hannah?
JONES: I'm not sure how happy he'll be about Stormy Daniels continuing to play out the allegations in front of the world's press. Stormy Daniels, of
course, definitely a porn star, her lawyer has also been playing into to this whole rouse, as well. Pretty much playing Donald Trump, you can say
at his own game. This is the latest tweet that we heard from Stephanie Clifford's lawyer. He says, if a picture is worth a thousand words, how
many words is this worth? And you can see there a disk, as well.
I mean, it is pretty much trying to play the president at his own game and a game that he's probably not going to want to be a part of.
[16:45:53] JONES: Well, it's quite a tease, isn't it? Quite a cliffhanger for that "60 MINUTES" interview, that Stormy Daniels -- she's sitting down
with Anderson Cooper. That interview is to air on Sunday night, and so Michael Avenatti, Stormy Daniels' lawyer, like you say, he's sort of using
these kind of reality TV or teasing and kind of cliffhangers using Trump's own methods to kind of poke at him. What's unclear is, was that a CD? Is
that a DVD? What is on it?
A colleague of mine MJ Lee, asked Avenatti today if that could be maybe a tape of this polygraph test that Stormy Daniels subjected herself to
several years ago. He said that that's not what's on that disk, it has nothing to do with that. But we don't know what it is. Maybe we'll find
out on Sunday and yes, he has said over and over again that they are not going away. They are not going to be intimidated. And he closes his tweet
with the word basta which means enough in Spanish. Hannah.
JONES: Just briefly, Athena. Have the family, the Trump family said anything about any of these allegations given the fact at particular Karen
McDougal, they met her over the years.
JONES: Right. Well, no. There's been no response from the president to that interview. That White House has denied that this relationship ever
happened. But as far as the interview last night, there hasn't been any sort of new response and the first lady also has not responded to any of
this, whether we're talking about consensual relationships or woman who have accused her husband of sexual harassment or other kind of misconducts,
so silence coming from White House.
JONES: Attempting to keep a dignified silence if that's possible in all of this. Athena Jones, we appreciate it. Thank you.
JONES: Now to other news. European Union is rallying behind Britain as it points the finger of blame at Moscow for the poisoning of a former Russian
spy on British soil. The EU is recalling its ambassador to Russia for consultations over the nerve agent attack in Salisbury earlier on this
month. EU leaders say they agree with Britain that it's highly likely that Russia is responsible saying, "There is no plausible alternative
British Prime Minister Theresa May, meanwhile says there's a new dynamic in the Brexit negotiations after EU leaders formally adopted a proposed
withdrawal legal agreements with the UK. It covers issues including citizens' rights and the so-called divorce bill that Britain will have to
pay to the block when it leaves and it paves the way for months of intensive trade talks to begin, but there are still some sticking points to
resolve. Most notably, of course, issue of the Northern Ireland border.
Some sparkling winemakers though are getting ready for Brexit by bottling their bubbles in the most British of measures, the old pint. Pints of wine
disappeared from UK shelves when they were banned by European regulations back in the 1970s. Anna Stewart visits one English winemaker to find out
why people are pining for their pints.
ANNA STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rolling hills and the sea breeze, this valley in the south of England has the perfect conditions for a vineyard.
Sarah and mark Driver founded the Rathfinny State eight years ago. It's well established in still wine and now it's moving into sparkling. Unlike
its rival, French champagne, the couple would like to serve it from a very British-sized bottle, the pint.
SARAH DRIVER, CO-FOUNDER, RATHFINNY WINE ESTATE: Has always been my favorite drink and to be absolutely honest, that's only got two and a half
glasses in it. That's got six glasses in it. And in the evening, if I want to drink, I feel a bit extravagant if there's just two of us at home,
to open a full bottle. But the pint bottles are perfect with four glasses.
STEWART: Pints and champagne were extremely popular pre-1973 when Britain joined the European Bloc, then EU regulation came bubbling up, dictating
that sparkling wine could only be sold in 375 or 750 milliliters, any amount of hat. But not the pint, 568 millimeters. Winston Churchill was
often spotted with a glass of champagne and is widely reported to have been a big proponent with a pint-sized bottle. Saying, an imperial pint is an
ideal size for a man like me. It's enough for two at lunch and one at dinner. Some may think it's the perfect size, but until the UK actually
leaves the EU, the pint size bottles are lying in wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We bottled about 800 of the pint sized bottle in 2015. We haven't bottled anymore because we can't legally sell it. However,
we're planning to do some next year and that will be ready for the release in 2021 when hopefully the laws will change in the UK and then we can start
STEWART: So whether it's to celebrate or commiserate the end of the UK's EU membership, Brits may be able to pop and open a pint of sparkling wine.
Anna Stewart, CNN, East Suffolk, UK.
[16:50:58] JONES: A pint of wine. Certainly something to celebrate there. Stay with us here on CNN. Plenty more after this break.
JONES: Welcome back. Now, when you think of India, you may think of Bollywood. But in the capital in New Delhi, an independent music scene is
emerging. In today's "DESTINATION INDIA," we delve into the city's night life with a local rapper who's taking the Indian hip-hop scene by storm.
PRABH DEEP, NEW DELHI MUSICAL ARTIST: India is not just all Bollywood, it's more than that. We are just moving towards different direction now.
And we really cares about quality music because we don't expect (INAUDIBLE). We have an industry though.
As a performer, I used to go to the clubs and they used to tell me that you can't perform in any racial languages, just English. Now, it's changed.
Hip-hop is making noise in India, generally. It's not just about making rap songs anymore. We are making music. Like if you dive deep into it,
then you listen to our projects, you will find compositions, you find arrangements like other musicians, big musicians do. And we launched that
by ourselves. And we're making (INAUDIBLE)
I think (INAUDIBLE) back in the day this was a really beautiful place, very quiet. Now, it's like a hub for so many people to party. In the daytime,
it's more artistic. But at night, it's total party scene. It's a different place altogether.
Those people are listening to some other music, they're open to new music, basically. There is almost to explore to why this runs on you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What I really love about the Delhi music culture is that it's getting everything in a very small location. If you go back a
decade or so, you would generally see traveling to different parts of world to engage into different kinds of music.
Now what is happening is with awesome mixed, all the DJs coming in playing here. We get every part of the world here in this small geographical hub.
It is bringing in more musicians here. So it's just like amazing. Landscape is going wider day by day.
JONES: That the next few weeks. CNN is telling the stories of young scientists, entrepreneurs and inventors in a new special series. Their
inspiring innovations will surely make a difference in improving our environments, health and communities. Dr. Sanjay Gupta introduces us to
one of tomorrow's heroes. He's using organic waste to make renewable energy.
[16:55:13] SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This planet earth is the only one we've got. Yet every day, we pump massive amounts of
pollution into the atmosphere. Tomorrow's hero, Leroy Mwasaru is working to convert waste into renewable fuel, to help save our trees and our
LEROY MWASARU, INNOVATOR: In high school, I used to walk around with a notebook. I used to note down the different problems that I saw each and
every day. But then this problem came up and there was no way I was going to ignore it. I chose to address this one because it affected many people.
My name is Leroy Mwasaru. I'm 20 years old. And I'm from Kenya. My invention is Greenpact. Greenpact is a conscious social enterprise that's
offering green renewable solutions which is biogas energy. Greenpact begun as a high school project where we utilized human waste and organic waste
and we used that to generate biogas and fertilizer to cook light meals in the kitchen for the school.
The human waste bioreactor works using the principle of anaerobic respiration. A human waste doesn't have a significant level of energy, so
we supplement this with organic waste. You put something in a container and restrict air from it. You get energy, and that energy is the CH4,
which is methane, and that methane is what is useful as biogas. So that CH4 once it goes through a filtering process, you remove the hydrogen
sulfide, we're able to get pure biogas energy.
Using these biogas systems, we'll actually find that they actually have no waste because what comes in as a feed will eventually come out as biogas
and the sludge which comes out of the system is very clean organic fertilizer. We envision this solution to Kenyans who are not able to
purchase nonrenewable sources of energy.
The more we continue harming the environment with non-renewable sources of energy, the more we continue depleting the environment. My vision for this
invention is that it's something that will be replicated and be able to grow, not only in size but also in impact.
There's still a lot that has to be done especially on the African continent in terms of utilizing the number of resources that we have at hand. And I
think I'd be best placed to be able to solve these problems that we face as a continent.
JONES: That's all we've got time for. Thanks so much for watching. Stay with CNN, "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.