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North and South Korea Summit to be Held in DMZ; Bereaved Families Demands Answers; Cricketers Brings Shame Back Home; Trump to Use his Pardoning Powers; Cricketers Banned In Ball Tampering Scandal; Brexit, One Year To Go; Attack On Quebec City; CNN's Expedition Antarctica. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired March 29, 2018 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROSEMARY CHURCH, CNN ANCHOR: Diplomacy in the Koreas. North and South get together for high-level talks and set a date for a meeting between their leaders.
The cheating scandal fallout. Australia's disgraced cricketers return to face the wrath of an angry nation.
And the attorney for Stormy Daniels files a motion in court to compel the U.S. president to testify under oath.
Hello and welcome to our viewers joining us from all around the world. I'm Rosemary Church, and this is CNN Newsroom.
The highly anticipated summit between the leaders of North and South Korea will take place on April 27th in the first such meeting since 2007. The two sides have held high-level talks in the DMZ the past few hours to work out the details for that summit.
They say it will be held at the Freedom House on the Southern side of the truce village in the DMZ. The talks come after Kim Jong-un's surprise trip to Beijing where he reportedly said he's open to denuclearization, but with conditions.
CNN's Alexandra Field is near the border with North Korea. She joins us now live. So, Alexandra, they have now set the date for the summit between the leaders of North and South Korea for April 27th as we reported. What are the details have been hammered out so far at these high-level talks in the DMZ and what other details might come out in the hours ahead?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, Rosemary, it is really an amazing thing. From where we're standing right here in South Korea you can look right across that water. You can see directly into North Korea.
But in order for these officials to come together and have meetings like the ones that they today these are really highly orchestrated affairs. They met in the truce village which straddles the 38th parallel, one
of the most heavily fortified borders in the world. But they did come to an agreement, not just setting the date for the larger U.S. -- excuse me, North Korean/South Korean summit that will now take place at the end of April, but they also talked very broadly about what they considered to be the joint goals of North Korea and South Korea this time, denuclearization and also the improvement of inter-Korean relations.
Look, these developments are coming fast and furiously. The fact that you are having this South Korean/North Korean summit the first time in nearly 10 years is certainly a significant step forward. Only overshadowed by the fact that you've recently had a U.S. president accepting an invitation to sit down with Kim Jong-un.
But these developments are really the result of the work that the delegates did here today. These are same delegates who came here back in January. And that's when we saw this sort of significant step forward when North Korea decided to send a South Korean delegation to the Olympics.
From there we have seen the sort of cascading diplomatic effect where you have seen the emergence for plans for these talks. So the talks are now scheduled, but the work is not done yet.
Of course when you are bringing North Korea and South Korea together for high-level talks, the highest level talks really which is what we're talking about, everything needs to be agreed upon. All details need to be agreed upon. So they are saying that is still more work to be done and working level group will have to continue to hash out those details before Kim Jong-un comes face to face with the South Korean President Moon Jae-in. Rosemary?
CHURCH: Right. And as we know, of course, and as we've been reporting, Kim Jong-un just traveled to Beijing, met with China's President Xi Jinping. And Beijing revealed that Kim was committed to denuclearization with conditions attached. What might those conditions be? And of course what is his definition of denuclearization? Do we know?
FIELD: Right. We've heard a lot of people talking denuclearization, North and South Korea agreeing that the goal here is talking about denuclearization, the United States agreeing that they would sit down with North Korea if the premise of the talks were denuclearization.
But the reality here, Rosemary, is that there are varying definitions of what that means, you know. Initially the White House have said that they wouldn't sit down with Kim Jong-un until concrete actions toward denuclearization were taken. They have moved off of that marks agreeing with these talks in principle at least anyway.
But the U.S. definition according to analysts is largely been that you would see North Korea put an end to the program that exceeded so rapidly in the last year. For North Korea, though, they have a much more broad definition according to analysts of denuclearization. It isn't just about denuclearization North Korea, it's about the whole peninsula.
To them that could mean demanding major concessions from the U.S., like the withdrawal if the 30,000 U.S. troops that are stationed in South Korea. Like the end of the protection of the U.S. guarantees to South Korea with its nuclear umbrella.
So, certainly, you could have the leaders here coming at this from different reactions. But Rosemary, you bring up the visit that Kim Jong-un just made to Beijing. This is a significant step forward.
[03:04:58] You know, the fact that we were seeing plans for these talks emerge, the United States has taken credit for this, saying that sanctions were paying off, that they were being felt, the impact is being felt in North Korea.
Well, this trip to Beijing does sort of change the calculus for analysts because we do see Kim Jong-un now moving toward these meetings with a little more muscle. He has sured up the relationship with North Korea's strongest most significant ally, China, and he's got that now as he gets ready to sit down with leaders of South Korea, and potentially the United States. Rosemary?
CHURCH: Incredibly development, of course. Our Alexandra Field bringing us all those details from near the border with North Korea. Many thanks to you.
Well, President Donald Trump is shaking things up again at the White House. Veterans Affairs Secretary David Shulkin is out. A White House official says he was no longer effective and his distractions were getting in the way of carrying out the president's agenda.
Tapped to replace him, Dr. Ronny Jackson, currently the physician to the president. Jackson made a splash earlier this year you might recall with his enthusiastic briefing on the president's physical exam.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RONNY JACKSON, WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: He has a lot, a lot of energy, a lot of energy and a lot of stamina. Look at his vision. I mean, he's, you know, he's 71 years old and his bilateral in corrected vision is 20-30. I mean, he can drive if he wants to without glasses.
I mean, he washes his ands frequently. He uses, you know, Purell. And as many hand he shakes in a day he'd be a fool not to. It's called genetics. I don't know. Some people have, you know, just great genes.
The president's health is excellent. His overall health is excellent. He has incredible genes. I just assume. I think he'll remain fit for duty for the remainder of this term and even for the remainder of another term if he's elected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: All right. Well, a new court filing in the Russia investigation has revealed a potentially damaging connection. It says former Trump campaign deputy chairman Rick Gates was in touch twice during the fall of 2016 with a person tied to a Russian intelligence service.
Gates has agreed to plead guilty and cooperate with the Justice Department special counsel in the Russia probe.
Well, former Trump attorney John Dowd reportedly floated the possibility last year of pardoning several top administration officials. Just as the Russia investigation was heating up. The New York Times cites three sources with knowledge on the discussions.
CNN's Jim Acosta has the details.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH HUCKABEE-SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good afternoon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JIM ACOSTA, SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Dodging nearly every question coming her way, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders struggled to answer whether President Trump's legal team floated the prospect of pardoning former campaign chairman Paul Manafort and former national security advisor Michael Flynn in the Russia investigation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: I did not talk to him about it specifically, but again, I've been in a number of conversations. It's never come up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Sanders largely relied on a prepared statement from White House attorney Ty Cobb to deny the outside lawyer John Dowd raised the pardon idea. Cobb told CNN what he told the New York Times which first reported the story.
"I've only been asked about pardons by the press, and I've routinely responded on the record that no pardons are under discussion or under consideration at the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Look, I would refer you back to the statement from Ty Cobb. As I said, an on-record statement from the president's attorney here at the White House on these matters has said there's no discussion or consideration of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The president didn't close the door on the possibility of pardons in the Russia probe when he was pressed on the issue late last year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't want to talk about pardons with Michael Flynn yet. But we'll see what happens. Let's see. I can say this. When you look at what's gone on with the FBI and with Justice Department, people are very, very angry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The White House also didn't want to address the latest from Stormy Daniels whether the president would comply with the request from the porn star's attorney to sit down for a deposition in the case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: We have addressed this once extensively, and we have nothing new to add and for any new questions I would refer you the president's personal counsel.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the president said for that decision?
SANDERS: Again, I'm not going to get in to a hypothetical question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Sanders also once again refused to say whether the president knew that his personal attorney attempted to pay off the porn star.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SANDERS: Look, the president has denied the allegations. We have spoken about this issue extensively and I don't have anything else to add beyond that. Anything beyond that, I would refer you the outside counsel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: The White House denied it's hiding the president from the press, something aides in fact have been doing all week long.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he too busy to take questions from the press or?
SANDERS: Look, we take questions from you guys every day in a number of different formats and right now I'm standing up here taking questions from you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: While Sanders claims the president has denied the allegations, Mr. Trump has not done so in front of the cameras.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is Stormy Daniels a liar, sir? Mr. President--
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: It's a question he won't be able to escape forever.
ACOSTA: Why has he not spoken on Stormy Daniels, why is he not spoken on Stormy Daniels, Sara?
[03:10:02] CHURCH: Jim Acosta reporting for us on the legal issues facing the president.
So let's bring in CNN legal analyst Page Pate to help us understand some of the issues. Always great to have you here in the studio.
PAGE PATE, LEGAL ANALYST, CNN: Thank you.
CHURCH: Let's start with this issue of pardons. Because we know from the White House they are denying that the Trump team at any point discussed the pardoning of Paul Manafort or Michael Flynn. Talk to us about the ramifications of that and why there's so much attention in regard to the Mueller inquiry at this point despite these White House denials.
PATE: Well, I'm not at all surprised that they are denying there was any discussion of pardons because that would give evidence that there was a conspiracy to possibly obstruct the Russian investigation as far back as when it started or at least when Michael Flynn was initially under investigation.
The thought is if the president's team offered pardons in exchange for Flynn and Manafort and perhaps others not plead guilty and cooperate with the special counsel, they would be doing that to protect the president. And that's where people think that could be evidence of obstruction.
CHURCH: Interesting. So, what do you think is likely to be the outcome here?
PATE: I think personally at the end of the day Paul Manafort is likely to be pardoned because it makes no sense, given the charges that he's facing, the money laundering offenses, all of the other financial crimes, and now that the special counsel has the cooperation of his co-defendant, Mr. Gates, I think he's looking at a lot of prison time.
And normally a person in that position will try to negotiate a deal with the government. Let me plead guilty to some lesser crime, maybe I can cooperate, but even if I didn't cooperate I would still want to talk about a plea. He's not doing that. His lawyers are not doing that. And I think that's because for whatever reason Mr. Manafort thinks he's going to receive a pardon from the president. CHURCH: Interesting. And of course, then there was the other issue that was raised there in Jim Acosta's story. We are talking about the White House very reluctant to address the latest from Stormy Daniels. More specifically, from her lawyer, Michael Avenatti, who basically wants to depose the president. Let's just listen to what he had to say on that very matter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL AVENATTI, STORMY DANIELS' ATTORNEY: We want to put the president under oath and we're going to ask him some very simple questions. Normally you're permitted seven hours under the federal rules. We've only requested two of him and Mr. Cohen. You know, it's one thing, Anderson, to lie to the press. It's another thing to potentially perjure yourself under oath.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: All right. So he really wants to get the president under oath.
CHURCH: And of course, there are legal traps here.
CHURCH: Can he force him to comply?
PATE: Well, the Supreme Court has already decided that the president even while in office can be subject to a deposition. We saw that with Bill Clinton. And so, yes. In the right case President Trump could be required to submit to a deposition. But the question is, is this the right case?
This was a nondisclosure agreement that somebody presumably sign on behalf of the president that contains an arbitration clause. That normally means no court proceeding. It goes straight to an arbitrator, no depositions, no jury trials, none of that.
But the lawyer in this case, Stormy Daniels's lawyer, has challenged the making of that contract. Basically saying, we don't even know that there is a deal here because the White House is saying Trump didn't know anything about it. So, he is asking the judge, before you send this to arbitration, let me talk to him. Let me depose him under oath. And obviously that opens up a whole can of worms for the president because if he makes any misstatement under oath, that's a separate crime.
CHURCH: Right. And of course, as you say, we saw this with President Clinton and certainly legally they can bring a president to a deposition.
PATE: Yes, in the right case.
CHURCH: But in the right case. That's the question here. PATE: Right.
CHURCH: But if he is deposed, the question of course would be, were you aware that your lawyer had gone into an agreement with Stormy Daniels to basically hush her up?
PATE: That's right.
CHURCH: For $130,000. And what's the legal trap there?
PATE: Well, one, it's liability in this particular case. I mean, if the lawyer for Stormy Daniels can prove that Trump was unaware of this agreement, even though he was supposedly a party to this agreement then there's no deal. There's no nondisclosure agreement. She can say whatever she wants. She can't be sued. She can't be hauled into arbitration.
What's more important, I think is the potential impact on campaign finance laws because if Michael Cohen was contributing money to this cause to hush Stormy Daniels up in order to help Trump get elected in 2016, that could be a violation of federal law.
CHURCH: All right. And what do you think would be the outcome of all of this?
PATE: There's no way to look in a crystal ball at this point. So many uncertainties. I don't see anyone going to jail at this point, unless the president or Michael Cohen sit down, submit to a deposition and make false statements, I think if that happens and the prosecutor either in this case or some other case can prove those statements are false, then we're looking at possible prison time.
[03:15:10] CHURCH: Incredible. Page Pate, always great to get your legal analysis. Many thanks.
PATE: Thank you, Rosie.
CHURCH: Well, British police now say a nerve agent used in an attack on a former Russian double agent was placed at his front door. They say the concentration of chemical at the Salisbury home is higher than at any other location, and that's where the investigation is now focused.
The U.K. says the nerve agent was developed by Russia, but Moscow denies any involvement. It says there will be retaliation after Russian diplomats were expelled from more than 20 countries.
We'll take a short break here, but still to come, the verdict is in for three Australian cricketers. Their punishment for cheating in a test against South Africa.
And a shopping mall fire in Siberia spark anger across Russia as the families of the victims demand answers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. Three disgraced Australian cricketers caught tampering with the ball are returning home from South Africa. Fielder Cameron Bancroft was scheduled to arrive in Perth just a short time ago. Former captain Steve Smith and former vice captain David Warner are on their way back to Sydney.
Cricket Australia has banned Bancroft for nine months. Smith and Warner received 12-month bans.
Well, journalist Fauziah Ibrahim is live in Sydney this hour. She joins us now. So, Fauziah, this has, of course, been a disgrace for the country and for these three players just as Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull had already pointed out.
But now there appears to be some level of sympathy for these three players, with some fan suggesting the bans are too severe. What's being said about that and what's been the reaction back in Australia to this whole cheating scandal?
FAUZIAH IBRAHIM, JOURNALIST: Well, as you know, Rosemary, Australia is a huge sporting nation and cricket is a golden sport here in this country. It has been said that the cricket captaincy is only second to the position of prime minister.
Now, when the scandal first erupted on Saturday, the whole nation was up in arms. There were calls for Steve Smith to resign immediately. It was thought that the whole cricket team had brought the whole nation into disrepute.
And, of course, we are awaiting those, both Steve Smith and Cameron Bancroft to address the press as soon as they arrive back in Australia in just a few minutes or so. But since then there has been a bit of a sea change in terms of how these players should be treated.
[03:20:00] There are some in the Australian country where they say that, well, we really should be gentle on these players. After all, it's supposedly their first reported crime in cricket. And so these sentences or these punishments have been far too severe.
However, I do have to say that editorial after editorial, reports after reports, and even speaking to the ordinary average Australian, many Australians are very disappointed in their cricket team. They feel that they've brought not only shame to the sport of gentleman, but also to the whole country.
CHURCH: Indeed. I mean, people are just shocked, wondering why they would stoop so low. Cameron Bancroft, of course, has already returned to his home in Perth. What sort of reaction will Steve Smith and David Warner likely get when they arrive home in Sydney after being treated like criminals when they left South Africa?
IBRAHIM: Well, Steve Smith is expected to arrive -- or address the public -- he's already landed apparently, but he is expected to address the public in about 45 minutes or so. Many have said that he is in for a public execution after all, being the captain of the cricket team, he will take the fall. He says he is responsible for the scandal and he's taken full responsibility for it.
Of course, as I mentioned before, a lot of people are sort of saying, listen, this is a 28-year-old star player. He's just beginning his career. We really should be gentle on him. Give him another goal. The punishment of a year ban for test cricket and another year in terms of captaincy is too harsh.
A lot of people, however, do want to see David Warner, the vice captain, to face the public and to face the condemnation. Cricket Australia has found that David Warner is the ring leader of this plot to tamper the ball on Saturday against South Africa, and so a lot of people want to see David Warner face the public.
He won't, however, be facing the public. However, about two hours ago, he did tweet and he said that mistakes have been made, which have damaged cricket, "I apologize for my part and take responsibility for it. I understand the distress this has caused the sport and its fans. It's a stain on the game and we all loved and I -- and that I have loves since I was a boy."
So, David Warner there tweeting his apology and admitting his responsibility, but he will not be facing the public or the press. Steve Smith, however, expected to face the gallery in 45 minutes.
CHURCH: Yes, a lot of anger directed at David Warner particularly. We shall see how both of them are treated on their return. Fauziah Ibrahim joining us there. Many thanks to you.
Well, Venezuela's head prosecutor says at least 68 people were killed in a fire at police detention center west of Caracas. Family members gathered at the holding cells facing off with police in riot gear. It's not known what caused that fire or how many of dead were visitors. Some media report it broke out during a riot and gunfire was reported when the unrest began.
Well, people in Russia are burying their loved ones after the devastating shopping mall fire in Siberia. It killed at least 64 people, most of them children. The many grieving families anguish has turned to anger as they demand answers.
CNN's Phil Black has more.
PHIL BLACK, CORRESPONDENT, CNN: The unbearable grief of burying both your children. Sergey Alkov (Ph) and his wife Natalya kiss, hold and cry over the coffin of their son and daughter, 10-year-old Maria and 8-year-old Constantine. Sergey's mother, Nadesda (Ph), the children's grandmothers is buried with them. All three died together as fire consumed a shopping center in Siberian city of Kemerovo.
That haunting cry is only one small example of the pain tearing at this city and sending waves of sadness and anger across Russia. The top-left corner of the security video shows the fire as it begins to take hold in the children's play hall. Flames and smoke spread through the center. Three movie cinemas filled with children and their families collapse. Some people jumped for their lives. Shock quickly became anger. In
front of the local administration building, people screamed for justice. This man repeated his last phone call with his daughter as she was trapped inside. "She said, dad, I love you, I'm suffocating. I'm losing
Most local officials stayed inside, protected by lines of riot police. But Vice Governor Sergei Tsivilev thought it was a good idea to speak to the crowd and accuse one loud man of using the tragedy to promote himself.
[03:25:07] The man's response, "My whole family is dead. My sister, wife, and three kids, 7, 5, and 2 years old."
Russian President Vladimir Putin isn't used to being spoken to like this. It was the tense moment when a small group of angry people in Kemerovo were allowed to meet him. They demanded answers, assurances of transparency. He promised a thorough investigation and accountability.
Investigators trying to work out how and why have already begun arresting people like this woman, the shopping mall's director pleading her innocence from a cage in a courtroom.
But for many in this country, responsibility rests much higher. Thousands of people in Moscow joined a quite vigil for the fire's victims but they became angrier. Chanting Putin must resign. And corruption kills.
Many people here blame what they consider a broken system and the man who has presided over it for 18 years.
Phil Black, CNN, Moscow.
CHURCH: Unbearable heartbreak there. And Facebook says its ending its partnership with several data brokers. For years, Facebook has given advertisers the option of targeting their ads based on the data collected. CEO Mark Zuckerberg is dealing with a global backlash after reports a company improperly accessed data to target U.S. voters.
Facebook plans to make it easier for users to find settings to control their personal information. Currently they are spread across 20 pages.
Well, Apple CEO has long criticized Facebook and Google for making money from the data collected from its users and he hasn't changed that position. He had no advice to offer Zuckerberg in an interview on MSNBC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TIM COOK, CEO, APPLE: We've never believed that these detailed profiles of people that have incredibly deep personal information that is patched together from several sources should exist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
COOK: This is something we've always felt, you know, really responsible for.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mark Zuckerberg, what would you do?
COOK: What would I do? I wouldn't be in this situation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: All right. We'll take a short break here. Still to come, a date is now set for an historic Korean summit. The latest on high- level talks taking place in the DMZ.
Plus, with one year to go until the U.K. leaves the E.U. the British prime minister is hitting the road with a message of strength. But some people still aren't buying Brexit. We will explain when we come back.
[03:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHURCH: A very warm welcome back. I'm Rosemary Church, I want to update you now on the main stories we're following this hour. South Korea says President Moon Jae-in will meet with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un in a Summit on April 27th. That date was set during hi- level talks between the two sides which have been taking place in the DMZ. Now, there is another round of talks scheduled for next week.
British police now say a former Russian double agent and his daughter were poisoned by a nerve agent placed at his front door. They say they found a higher concentration of the chemical at his Salisbury home than anywhere else. Now investigators plan to focus their attention there.
Cricket Australia, has banned three players for their role in a cheating scandal in South Africa. Former team captain Steve Schmidt is back in Sydney and expected to talk with reporters shortly. He advice Captain David Warner are ban for 12 month, fielder Cameron Bancroft received a nine-month ban.
All right. Let's turn back now to that high-level meeting between North and South Korea. We now know when North Korea's Kim Jong-un and South Korea's Moon Jae-in will meet, and also where they will meet at the Freedom House on the southern side of the Truce Village between the two countries. But there are still more details to discuss and further talks are planned for next week as we reported. So, Kevin Rudd is the former Prime Minister of Australia and currently President of the Asia Society Policy Institute, he joins me now live from Hong Kong, good to have you with us.
KEVIN RUDD, FORMER AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you, Rosemary.
CHURCH: So these high level talks have hammered out a number of details including that date we mentioned for the Summit between the leaders of North and South Korea, that will be on April 27, as the formal leader of Australia, how surprise are you to be witnessing these high-level talks of the DMZ in preparation for Summit between the two Korean leaders and ultimately the much anticipated meeting between U.S. President Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong-un, if that does indeed go ahead?
RUDD: Rosemary, I think it is really important as we look at all the drama of recent days to look beneath the surface to see what actually in substance has changed here. I think, at one level we've had an extraordinary, as it were, set of diplomatic successes for Kim Jong- un. He is had the North Koreans -- he is had the North Koreans meet the South Korean Security Team -- National Security Team in Seoul. He is had the United States agree to a bilateral summit with the North Koreans.
He is been invited to Beijing and has just had concluded that visit successfully. So, a pure level of diplomatic tactics, he is feeling, I think pretty tough with himself. He is certainly they center of attention and he's reconsolidated what it seems to be the breach of the last five years, the North Korea/China relationship, but underneath it all, here's the key question, has there been any substantive change whatsoever in North Korea's preparedness to actually embrace denuclearization agenda? Or is this just a whole bunch of shadow boxing, as North Korea, strategic position not having changed at all?
CHURCH: Well, we don't know that yet, do we? What do you make of the revelation from China after Kim's meeting with President Xi Jinping that Kim was committed to denuclearization with conditions? Of course, we don't know what he means by denuclearization. We don't know what these conditions might be, but if there are too many conditions placed here, could it very well be a deal breaker for that face-to-face meeting between Kim and President Trump?
RUDD: Well, there's really pay us some -- lot of benefit to look carefully at the fine print, including the text of the statement released from Beijing after Kim Jong-un's meeting with Xi Jinping. And if you look at the statement, there are about three or four conditions anaphase attached to the word denuclearization, quote- unquote.
I think it's a real danger for the Western median in particular to run around and excited way and say or in further, this is some sort of breakthrough.
[03:35:03] Kim Jong-un has used this sort of language before. Let me, for example, just point to one of the conditions which Kim Jong-un refers to. The denuclearizing is possible, quote, if there is an improvement in the atmosphere from the United States and South Korea in their relationship with the north. Well, what on earth does that mean? It's a purely subjective phrase and it can only be interpreted by the North Koreans themselves. So, I am somewhat skeptical about where this is headed, and I am, therefore, yet to be convinced that the real underlying North Korean negotiating position has changed.
CHURCH: All right. Of course, you say the media sees this is a breakthrough certainly U.S. President Donald Trump has been calling this a breakthrough and he is really petting himself on the back for where things stand right now, but talk to us about whether you think Kim Jong-un could possibly play President Trump in a face-to-face meeting?
RUDD: We are going to say, in the last month -- last three months, what's Kim Jong-un done? 28th of November last year, he launches this inter-continental ballistic missile test, the Hwasong 15, I think and that has tested successfully. Come his first of January address, he declares mission accomplished as far as obtaining the nuclear deterrent is concerned by North Korea. And then embarks upon his diplomacy concerning the Winter Olympics.
Then we see the Winter Olympic spectacular in South Korea replete with the North Korean female cheer squad. That leads, in turn, to the invite to North Korea by the South Korean National Security Advisor to meet with Kim Jong-un in Pyongyang. That leads to -- the conveying of a message apparently to President Trump who then turns around and immediately unilaterally says yes, and that, in turn, because China has been left out of that particular diplomatic exchange, causes China to say, we're not about to be written out of this and we'll have Kim Jong-un come to Beijing, thank you very much. So, looking at it purely from Kim Jong-un's tactical point of view, this has been one set of diplomatic successes or the other.
CHURCH: So, you think he is playing everybody?
RUDD: So far, I think it has been, given the limited number of times he has, apart from obviously the possession of nuclear capability he is now got, he is played a very successful diplomatic hand. But, what I am concerned about most of all is whether, in fact, by virtue of the initiative by President Trump to unilaterally say, OK, I'm up for a Summit with the North Korean leader, causing the Chinese to bring Kim Jong-un to Beijing, that this visit of itself in the last couple of days to Beijing adds up to a de facto normalization, and what has been a very abnormal China/North Korea relationship over the last five years. And, therefore, are we looking at the beginnings of a lessening of Chinese resolve in support of U.N Security Council sanctions and pressure against the north? That concerns me.
CHURCH: Right. And we will, of course, be watching this very closely as will you. Kevin Rudd, thank you so much for joining us from Hong Kong. We appreciate it.
RUDD: Good to be with you.
CHURCH: And in exactly one year, Britain is to leave the European Union. Right now, the U.K. Prime Minister is off on a tour across the United Kingdom with this pledge on Brexit. She says, she is determined that the future will be a bright one, that the U.K. will thrive as a strong and united country that works for everyone, no matter whether you voted to leave or remain. But some aren't so sure, as both sides hammer out the details of a final deal is a major campaign to stop Brexit all together. CNN's Isa Soares went to England's second largest city to measure the effects.
ISA SOARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's a Thursday evening and at this local community center in Birmingham, a last ditch effort to stop Brexit is underway.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want the family relations. We don't want to be isolated and on our own.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: None of it makes sense.
SOARES: It may sound like a therapy session for the losing side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Brexit has brought out the worst in a certain section of the British people. We're not like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It could mean a number of things really if people --
SOARES: But they are here to learn how to persuade their friends, their leaders, and an elected official to support a new vote on the final Brexit deal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have to build the bridges in this country to get to a point where, we all back a public vote on the deal.
SOARES: Eloise Todd (ph) said best of Britain, the group recently received the $700,000 donation from billionaire investor, George Soros, to hold sessions like the one in Birmingham up and down the country.
[03:40:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are all just then talking to people that might have voted in a different way and telling people, facts and figures. It's about opening up a conversation and trying to understand, well, actually tell me about why you voted to leave the European Union?
SOARES: The first step to changing someone's mind, well, getting inside of it, participants pair up. One person argues the leave side.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to make our own laws.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, we are making our own laws.
SOARES: And the other tries to persuade them that staying in E.U. is the best solution.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are part of it. We are shaping the future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democracy doesn't stop. It's not one single point in time.
SOARES: And the issue brought up most by the lead role players, immigration.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thinking Polish, I mean, I don't want to be speaking in polish. I speak in English.
SOARES: Pro-leave campaigners say the idea of a public vote on the final Brexit deal would threaten democracy in Britain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People knew exactly what they were voting for. They were voting to bring back control from an overseas unelected bureaucracy back to this country, so that we could invoke our own laws, our own trade deals and take control of our own immigration policy. Of course this technical detail to go through, but people knew what they were voting for and they voted to leave.
SOARES: Anti-immigrant sentiment drove people to the polls in this part of the country during the 2016 referendum. The region called the west midlands voted for Brexit by 60 to 40 margin, but in January survey conducted by the Guardian found the region would be nearly evenly split, if a new vote were held today. But Eloise Todd said doubt is creeping in now, that the details of the deal are starting to emerge.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is really important that people in this country know that we still have a choice. And in terms of the Democratic nature of this, it's not Democratic to give any government a blank check.
SOARES: Isa Soares, CNN, London
CHURCH: And we'll take a quick break. Still to come, a German artist is honoring the holocaust victims with small, but powerful memorials. But some people don't like the message he is sending. The reason why, when we come back.
CHURCH: Welcome back, everyone. In January last year, a gunman walked into a mosque in Quebec City, Canada and opened fire. When the smoke cleared, six worshippers were dead and five more were critically injured. Now a Judge has accepted the attacker's guilty plea and he has apologized. Genevieve Beauchemin has the details.
GENEVIEVE BEAUCHEMIN, CTV NEWS REPORTER: Alexandre Bissonnette, wiped away tears as the Judge read out the names one by one of those he shot down. He told the court and the family of his victims that he was not a terrorist, not Islamophobic and that he was ashamed of his senseless act. I would like to ask for your forgiveness for all the harm I caused you, he said, addressing the families directly.
[03:45:03] Though I know what I did is unforgivable. He also said, he was pleading guilty in the hopes it could somehow spare those he hurt more pain. That includes his family, his parents who were in court today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was important for him to prevent the many victims and society from re-living the -- through the trial the terrible events that took place on January 29, 2017.
BEAUCHEMIN: The guilty pleas came as a shock Monday afternoon while a publication ban was still in place. Bissonnette had just uttered the words not guilty 12 times just hours before, following lawyers' advice he said until he'd seen all the evidence against him, but he told the Judge he had long intended to admit his guilt and today a psychiatrist confirmed he was legally apt to make that decision. Dozens of members of the mosque were in court. Widows, children who lost a father, emotional at the guilty pleas of the killer's words.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, it was, as if it was coming out of bad dream maybe, to hear my father's name among others.
BEAUCHEMIN: And while many say there is a sense of relief they won't have to go through a trial, their forgiveness won't come soon. They say Bissonnette explanation that he was battling inner demons, was obsessed with death, had suicidal thoughts doesn't answer one fundamental question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why a lot of the victims suffering at the end for nothing.
BEAUCHEMIN: Perhaps some of those answers could come next month at a sentencing hearing. A judge is to decide whether he could be handed one of the longest sentences in Canadian history up to a 150 years without parole. Genevieve Beauchemin, CTV News, Quebec City.
CHURCH: Thousands of people marched in silence Wednesday in memory of an elderly woman killed in her Paris apartment. Police believe two men stabbed Mireille to her death, because she was Jewish. All had escaped the roundup of Jews in the city back in 1942. Her killing has alarmed the French Jewish community which is Europe's largest. They say it's the latest in a string of anti-Semitic attacks.
A German artist is creating a growing grassroots memorial to holocaust victims, but it's prompted some backlash in his country. CNN's Atika Shubert explains why.
ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Artist Gunter Demning removes a slab of Berlin pavement and careful inserts three small brass plaques engraved with the names of the Jacobson family. 75 years ago this is where they lived before they were sent to Auschwitz and murdered.
GUNTER DEMNING, GERMAN ARTIST: There is a place to be remembered, it cannot be replace.
SHUBERT: These are stumbling stones and it's an extraordinary memorial to the more than 6 million killed in the holocaust. The concept is simple. A plaque for every person killed. It began more than 20 years ago and it now stretches across 22 countries. 67,000 stones and the largest memorial of its kind in the world. Demning shows us how each one has a story to tell. DEMNING: You want to read the stone, you have to bow your head. You
stumble with your head and with your heart.
SHUBERT: Irene Weingartner's grandmother lived next door to the Auschwitz family. When the parents did not return home one night, her grandmother took their 8-year-old boy to be with his family in detention, not knowing that they would all be sent to Auschwitz and killed. That, she says, is why she asked him to install the stones here and she invited the local school to attend.
IRENE WEINGARTNER, RESIDENT: All my life I knew about it, and so it was important for me to tell other people and I hope it will help so that things like this will never happen again.
SOARES: Germany has worked to ensure the horrors of World War II are not forgotten. Schools are required to visit holocaust memorials, but Germany's culture of remembrance is being challenged by the AFD or Alternative For Germany, a nationalist far-right party that is now the largest opposition party in Parliament. AFD lawmaker Wolfgang Gideon demanded an end to the stumbling stones. He refused to talk to CNN, but referred us to this statement instead.
The stumbling stone initiators impose a culture of remembrance on their fellow human beings dictating to them how they should remember who and when. Who gives these obtrusive moralists the right to do so?
His demand was rejected by a local official, but it sparked a national debate about how Germany should remember its World War II history.
[03:50:00] Irene Weingartner had some harsh words for the AFD.
WEINGARTNER: Those people who think that they are good Germans are very bad Germans and they refuse to remember what has happened -- what has happened in Germany and by other German people.
SHUBERT: Demning make, brushes off the recent debate. He wants the memorial to speak for itself.
DEMNING: You can imagine their sadness about what happened, but then so many people -- there is now a place they can remember while they are going home and so, one time -- now I can come to Germany again.
SHUBERT: Demning knows he may never finish his work, but he has set up the Stumbling Stone Foundation to continue his work to remember those lost one stone at a time. Atika Shubert, CNN, Berlin.
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POPE FRANCIS, POPE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHURCH: Pope Francis is celebrating Holy Thursday presiding over the
holy chrism mass at the Peters Basilica. A mass is named for the blessing of holy oils used in sacraments throughout the year. Later in the day Pope Francis will visit a prison in Rome where he will wash the feet of 12 in-mates.
And a 12-year-old American boy is giving thanks after the Pope made his wish come true.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I asked Peter, what was your -- what's your wish going to be? And Peter said, I want that man in white on the TV, I want to kiss from him like he is kissing all those children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHURCH: Peter Lombardi and his family had planned to go see the Pope in Philadelphia in 2015, but Peter was diagnosed with cancer. And when the Pope arrived, he was in hospital starting chemotherapy. Three years later Peter's cancer is in remission. The family traveled to Rome on Palm Sunday where Peter not only got a kiss from the Pope. He got to sit on the Pope mobile. How about that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a lot of people get to do that.
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CHURCH: CNN is in the Antarctic following Green Peace activists in one of the word's harshest and most beautiful regions. But this is no travel log. The Green Peace members say they want to protect the fragile eco system. Arwa Damon reports on the dramatic controversial and dangerous protest.
ARWA DAMON, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Every day brings to that even more beauty and every adventure is magical in its own unique way. Zoe Buckley Lennox, is one of the Green Peace activists on board and she was already determined to protect the Antarctic even before she came.
ZOE BUCKLEY LENNOX, GREEN PEACE ACTIVISTS: Yes, to see it feels more intimate and more personal. We could lose a lot of this area, the climate change and this species and those sorts of things.
DAMON: Perhaps just ask if not more crucial, the Antarctic's waters and its wildlife, especially krill which is a key to our species here, played a vital role moving carbon dioxide from the atmosphere to the depths of the ocean. Zoe is part of the team that has been tracking the movements of a Ukrainian krill fishing vessel. A lot of the krill fishing happens off the Antarctic Peninsula. And because this area is also the main feeding grounds for the wildlife, Green Peace and others have proposed this as an ocean sanctuary. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Swing around and keep up with them. Probably
abreast like this, please.
DAMON: Frank (inaudible) is a Green Peace veteran. The Green Peace has just placed themselves in between the Ukrainian vessel and the reefer hoping to be able to block the shipment from taking place. There is already a Chinese vessel offloading on the other side. Green Peace makes radio contact with the Ukrainians.
[03:55:03] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have no intention of taking control of your vessel. Our protest is peaceful.
DAMON: But the Green Peace inflatables are no match. The team speeds out again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not touch that rope.
DAMON: Green Peace believes that protecting the krill now in this vital region may help save the planet later. It's about preserving the balance of an eco-system that we are all reliant on for our survival. The Green Peace team's new goal is to prevent the Ukrainian vessel from heading back out to the fishing grounds. Zoe jumps on the rope. The Ukrainian fisherman cut her down. In to the Antarctic's freezing waters. The team needs to find a better location. And they aim for the anchor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are on the starboard side of the anchor. We must inform the vessel immediately.
DAMON: Krill fishing is not illegal, but the Green Peace team hopes that their disruptive and controversial actions will generate a reaction and bring international attention to protect these waters and wildlife.
Zoe is now on top of the signature Green Peace pod. Activists can actually live in it and this is how Green Peace occupies its targets in extreme conditions. But now the Ukrainians are moving and they are threatening to head out to the fishing grounds full steam.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have ten minutes. After that I make my speed full ahead, full ahead.
DAMON: It is becoming too risky. Frank needs to get the climbers and if possible the pod down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asking you to slow down and gives a chance to remove our people.
DAMON: The Ukrainian vessel does.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It felt (inaudible) I did twice.
DAMON: You seem to be kind of fearless.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I'm internalize my fear. Like the truth is I am more scared of environmental destruction than I am of a lot of these things.
DAMON: And in this remote and vital region, the Green Peace message is, we can do something before we reach the crisis point. Arwa Damon, CNN, the Antarctic.
CHURCH: And thanks for your company. I'm Rosemary Church. Connect with me any time on Twitter. The news continues now with Max Foster in London, have a great day.