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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Cop`s Emergency Rescue After Drug Bust; Cops: Killer Gambling Granny On The Run; Urgent Manhunt; Hollywood Murder. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired April 16, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] S.E. CUPP, HLN HOST: All right, Ashley, thank you, Crime and Justice with Ashleigh Banfield is up right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE HOST: Hi, good evening, everybody, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is Crime and Justice tonight. An
officer in Ohio is lucky to be alive after an unknown powder substance blew into his face while he was making a drug arrest. Our Producer Michael
Christian has been covering this story today. Michael.
MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Ashleigh, we`ll see several police officers rushing to save a fellow officer`s life, we`ll hear from
the woman whose drug arrest triggered this entire incident, and it`s all caught on camera.
BANFIELD: I can`t wait to hear from her, and what she said it was, also tonight, the manhunt from Minnesota granny who may have shot her husband
dead before killing a random woman 1,500 miles away. Our Producer Kyle Peltz is on the story. Kyle, you can`t help but notice the eerie
similarity between these two women.
KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That`s right. It`s maybe the last person you`d expect to see on a wanted posted, a grandmother with a
gambling problem accused of targeting, and killing a woman who looks just like her. Tonight, police fear she could kill again.
BANFIELD: And I`m wondering about the identity theft aspect to it as well. We`ll look into that in a moment. Then, the former T.V. producer, just
arrested for killing her own sister and their dogs, and staging it to look like an accident. Producer Bernice Man, there are some pretty weird and
disturbing details coming out of what ended up being a smoked out garage.
BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Extremely disturbing, Ashleigh. It`s reported that a suicide note was found in the victim`s hand, but who
just -- who wrote it?
BANFIELD: Interesting, all right, more than that as well coming up on that justice story. And then later, tell my mom, I love her. Those were
chilling 911 words on a call that came from a high schooler who was trapped inside his own van. How he got stuck, and who could be responsible for the
rescue that ultimately did not come.
But first, the Ohio police officers who had to rescue one of their own. It was during an arrest at a gas station, and it turned deadly. And not
because of the suspect -- here she was, already safely in handcuffs in the back of a cruiser.
And she`d already been separated from the drugs that she was reportedly getting ready to take. Good thing, too, when some of those drugs, an
unknown powder blew into the arresting officer`s face, take a look at what happened to him.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You OK? Are you all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not sure what it is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is that? What is that that you have?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where? I have nothing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no. In the car, what is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They called it ice (ph). I swear to god that`s what she called it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fentanyl in it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not that I know of.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Well, we have an officer having the effect right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Swear to god.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is Fentanyl in it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told me -- please, please, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop, stop. It`s called icer (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what she called it. I swear that`s what she called it, icer (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it? What`s the -- what is the master generic name? What is it, meth?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s supposed to be meth. She said meth and ice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meth and ice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s the picture.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Insert white cone into nostril. One in each nostril.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One side, one narcan administered.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lean out this way if you can, buddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to get out and sit on the floor?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get him, get him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help`s on the way, buddy, you`re all right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put him on his side, his head on his side at least.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You all right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take some deep breaths, buddy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Holy Moses. While he`s gloving up, you probably notice the officers using that antidote narcan. Narcan is becoming so popular across
the country. They`re carrying it with them, and it actually is saving a lot of lives.
But here`s the strange part of this story, the megadose of powder that officer was exposed to was actually meth, and narcan does not fight the
effects of meth.
I am happy to report that tonight this officer has made a full recovery, and he was reportedly back on duty today, roughly a week after this took
him down in that -- in that manner.
And if you`re wondering about the woman who was in the back of the cop car, feast your eyes, she pleaded guilty to possession of drug abuse
instruments. Figure that, possession of drug abuse instruments.
And tonight she is walking free, and apparently it was just time served, which would be a matter of days after what happened to that officer.
Joining me now Medical Examiner and Forensic Pathologist Dr. William Morrone. He has literally written the book about narcan, Essentials of
American Narcan. He`s going to help me get through this on a little.
[18:05:00] Also joining me, Criminal Justice Expert and retire NYPD Lieutenant Darrin Porcher, and then defense attorney -- second Darren,
Darren Kavinoky.
All right, first, if I can, Dr. Morrone, I want to get to you, the reaction that the officer had to the narcan, I get it, he had ingested what seemed
to be meth, and it didn`t respond to narcan.
But he had a really interesting reaction. He was choking, it seemed as though he was vomiting. And it did bring him back. Why is that?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Here`s what we`re probably seeing, we`re really probably seeing the effects of the
unknown powder that he took in. Because if it was meth at that concentration, meth is -- it`s the same thing as if he was given like 10
adderall crushed up, and thrown in his face.
So part of that response, the gagging or, you know, the choking, is a response to -- meth is what we call a stimulant. It`s a sympathetic
stimulant, and it causes constriction of blood vessels, and different effects in the airway.
Narcan does not reverse that, but narcan does not have any direct pathological response. More than likely his response to that was the meth
in his system.
BANFIELD: Interesting. So I do want to know, because the moment I hear that a police officer who had no idea this was coming, right, he didn`t
know he was about to be dosed with a bunch of drugs.
MORRONE: Correct.
BANFIELD: And then secondarily dosed with narcan, he probably didn`t expect he was going to be taking either, is there anything that could
happen to him? I mean, could the narcan have done anything damaging to him? Was that a risk?
MORRONE: No. And as a matter of fact, we teach police officers that in doubt, you still administer narcan to each other, or to the person who may
be down from a dug overdose.
Because there`s such a good safety profile that there`s absolutely an infinitesimal risk, the benefit outweighs the risk immensely, whether it`s
a heart attack, or it`s cocaine, if it`s the wrong drug, it still doesn`t do anything bad.
BANFIELD: Can you screw up? I mean, I saw you holding that thing up there. It looks like it`s -- you know, like a -- you know, like cold spray
that you would put up your nose. Can you mess that up if you`re going to do this to someone?
MORRONE: Yes, and here`s how. This is made as a single dose sprayer. You don`t prime it. If you notice when he said, the cone up to the mouth -- to
the nose, when you give this, you have to get it into the nose, and then pump it once, just once. There`s no second dose.
That`s why they keep second doses with each other. And in the -- a sense of safety, the law enforcement would be able to use this on each other
because the only other way to get the narcan, or the naloxone, the generic name, is to draw it back in a syringe, and to inject each other.
BANFIELD: Stick it. And just quickly, when you said once, is that one -- I hate to be the stickler for details, and the devils in the details.
MORRONE: No.
BANFIELD: Is that one nostril pump and you`re done?
MORRONE: Yes.
BANFIELD: Or is that one nostril pump, and second nostril pump?
MORRONE: Each nostril...
BANFIELD: OK.
MORRONE: ... gets a second cone and injection.
BANFIELD: Oh, OK.
MORRONE: This is four milligrams.
BANFIELD: Each nostril gets its own cone?
MORRONE: Right.
BANFIELD: OK. So hold that thought for a minute because I want to bring in Darrin Porcher with the NYPD. This is -- this is now sort of part of
the academy. I mean, this isn`t unusual. This isn`t strange.
This isn`t lucky that those two officers had it, put it out, knew where the instructions were, read them within literally, I think, about 45 seconds,
and administered the dose. This is now policing standard off.
DARRIN PORCHER, RETIRED NYPD LIEUTENANT: Right, in the wake of the opioid addiction crisis, this is something that police departments have brought
the point, the training of narcan happens in two phases.
The first phase is in the police academy. All police officers are trained to introduce narcan to possible victims. The second phase is when police
officers are assigned to the command. They do what we refer to as defibrillator training. This is very important...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: But what about this? I mean, this isn`t a drug addict. This is their friend. This is their partner. Are you trained for this to happen
to you?
Are you trained for the powder to blow back in your face -- Fentanyl, which can be miniscule, and the touch can affect you when you least it. Are you
trained to know when you are all of the sudden falling victim to an intentional evidence?
PORCHER: Well, the training consists of looking for particular issues with that individual, is that person experiencing shallow breathing, is the
person -- is their head going back, or their eyes rolling back?
These are indicators to where someone may be suffering an opioid overdose. Therefore, that`s when it`s introduced. So when you asked when is it being
used, is possible before officers, it specifically states individuals.
[18:10:03] A police officer is an individual. And I`ll tell you, if this was me in this particular situation, I would have administered the narcan
to this officer as well. Because the...
BANFIELD: OK. What about yourself? Here`s the weird part, what if you know something`s happening? If the powder blows in your face, and within
seconds you`re starting to feel the effects, can you narcan yourself?
PORCHER: You can with a self-injection -- excuse me, a self-inhalation. But the truth of the matter is, you become so disfigured mentally when you
are someone that has ingested an opioid.
Case in point, we suspected that this was possibly Fentanyl. When something like that happens, your body goes through an altered state. So
it`s always best a second or third party issues this narcan to you.
BANFIELD: By the way, I remember covering a story a while back, I think it was in Ohio, where the subject needed, I think, eight doses of narcan to be
revived. And that`s just -- I mean, that`s a tragedy in itself.
I want to play real quickly the Columbus Division of Police. I think he might be the sergeant who was the PIO for the day. Al least he is the
person who is commenting on the officer`s condition. His name is Dean Worthington.
And I`ll just let you know for the control room`s purposes, it`s sound bite number two. He talks about how the officer is doing now because obviously,
you see him in a condition like that, you can`t imagine he just get back up on the job. But he is back up on the job. So have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN WORTHINGTON, COLUMBUS DIVISION OF POLICE: The offer`s tough, he`s fine. He`s been released from the hospital. He is at home now. We expect
him to return to duty on Monday. We tested the substance, the lab came back, and the lab says that it`s methamphetamine. There was no other
substance tested in the powder that he ingested.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, that`s great news. I mean, I`m glad. But I am still pissed at that lady. I mean, I -- look, I get it, drug addicts are drug
addicts, and they have their drugs, and police have to do their work. But when a police officer is exposed like this -- let`s just listen to how
she`s speaking about the desperate information this office needs from her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is Fentanyl in it?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They told me -- please, please, please.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop, stop. It`s called icer (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s what she called it. I swear that`s what she called it, icer (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it? What`s the -- what is the master generic name? What is it, meth?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s supposed to be meth. She said meth and ice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meth and ice. In the car, what is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They called it ice (ph). I swear to god that`s what she called it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fentanyl in it?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: This is why I`m so mad, because she`s more interested in protecting herself. She said it was something else, as opposed to here`s
what I know, let`s try, and save the guy. This shouldn`t have happened.
Darren Kavinoky, I couldn`t believe it, when I heard that the charge was ready, possessing drug abuse instruments, a misdemeanor, sentence time
served. This happened April 8th. This is a matter of days.
This woman could have killed that officer. And then after being canvassed for what the substance was, was more interested in, you know, initially
protecting her own butt. Why such a light sentence?
DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, if there was a more significant charge to bring, I assure you, Ashleigh, prosecutors would have
brought it. They`re ethical obligation is to bring charges that they believe they can -- they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
And certainly, any kind of, say, an assault case or assault with a deadly weapon, if they thought that they had that here, they would have brought
it.
And in this woman`s defense, clearly she`s got an addiction issue to deal with, that she is out consuming this dangerous product, and ice is
typically referred to when talking about a smokeable methamphetamine.
They don`t come with warning labels, or ingredients lists. So when the officer is asking her if it had Fentanyl into it, she`s probably the least
qualified person to give that information. As a matter of fact...
BANFIELD: That makes sense.
KAVINOKY: ... we`re seeing -- we`re seeing more and more Fentanyl overdoses not in methamphetamine cases, but in heroin cases because dealers are...
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: You know what, thank you for that. I`ve got 30 seconds left. Dr. Morrone, I just want you to tell me real quickly the risk that is out
there for cops today.
And by the way, everybody else who touches anything public, like a door handle at a restaurant, or a pole in the subway, or the bus, the risk of
touching just a miniscule amount of Fentanyl, I saw those officers gloving up, but what can -- what can it do?
MORRONE: Fentanyl can be absorbed in the skin. We have Fentanyl patches that do the very same thing. Law officers today are at 100 times more risk
than they were five years ago, and they`re putting Fentanyl in everything.
They`re putting Fentanyl in marijuana. They`re putting Fentanyl in cocaine. You never know. This is the answer, should be in every home in
America.
BANFIELD: You know, I remember an officer saying, we don`t -- we don`t want our officers to carry it because we don`t want the liability, we don`t
want to have to assume the cost, but then all the sudden, it`s your own officer -- your own fellow officer, who needs it.
Kind of changes the metric a little, doesn`t it? Thank you, Dr. Morrone, I`m going to ask you to stay on. Darrin Porcher, I`m going to ask you to
stick around too, and Darren Kavinoky, you can`t go anywhere either. How about it, a trifecta. Thanks, guys.
[18:15:01] Tonight, there is a nationwide manhunt for a 56-year-old granny. This is no ordinary granny. She`s facing two murder charges. And one of
them is in a state where there`s a death penalty. She happens to be on the run.
She`s suspected of killing her husband in Minnesota, and a Florida woman who just may have looked a little bit too much like her, and maybe just a
little too tempting in terms of identity theft.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Tonight, there`s a nationwide manhunt for a very scary suspect, on the run and accused of killing two people in two different states. And
believe it or not, that very scary suspect is this grandma -- a grandma from a small Minnesota town.
She is considered armed and dangerous. Make no mistake, and no mind to smile, because one of the people she`s accused of killing is her own
husband. And the other is a seemingly random woman in Florida whom she may have purposely targeted because she looks almost exactly the same.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARMINE MARCENO, DEPUTY SHERIFF, LEE COUNTY: She smiles and looks like anyone`s mother or grandmother yet she is calculated, she`s targeted, and
she`s an absolute cold-blooded killer. Suspect Riess at some point in time will have no resources, and she will become more desperate, and may kill
again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Lois Riess` husband was found shot to death at home back in March. It would be a while though before anybody would find his body. A
couple weeks later, she`s alleged to have killed the other victim. And police told the Today Show that she could very well kill again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCENO: Further investigation revealed Ms. Hutchinson was targeted by the suspect due to the similarities in their appearance. Riess` mode of
operation is to befriend women who resembled her, and steal their identity.
U.S. marshals are actively involved in a national search for this dangerous fugitive. Riess` is considered armed and dangerous, and should not be
approached if located.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Tim Harlow. He is reporter with the Star Tribune, also Pamela Hutchinson`s cousin, Daniele Watts Jeffreys, and
Darren Kavinoky is still with me as well.
Tim, if can begin with you, the admonition from the police is worrisome for a number of reasons. Obviously, anybody who`s on the run and is a fugitive
from justice in this digital age can be tracked a lot easier than, say, 10 or 20 years ago.
And that makes them desperate. In this particular case, they allege that she was desperate, and needed the identity of someone who looked like her.
Do they think she may kill again, someone who looks like her, or did they thing she just may kill anybody?
TIM HARLOW, REPORTER, STAR TRIBUNE: They think that she may kill anybody. They haven`t said specifically if they would -- if she would go after
somebody who looks like her. Desperate times call for desperate measures. And this was a very desperate woman. Sp I would think that anybody who
comes in contact with her is in danger.
BANFIELD: So tell me a little bit about what started all of this. Because as I understand it, up until, you know, just recently, I think this woman
had a traffic ticket.
This is not a hardened criminal that you typically hear about when police say armed, and dangerous, and don`t go near her, just call the police.
This was the woman you`re seeing in the picture, just a Minnesota mom, and grandma.
HARLOW: Yes. It`s real interesting. You know, we did some digging in some court records, and found that she was the guardian of one of her
sisters who is bipolar, and suffers from clinical depression. And she also has a pension for going to casinos.
And so two years ago, there was a request that she be removed as the guardian for her older sister, which was granted, and then they did some
audits, and found that she was accused of taking $78,000 from her disabled sister, and spending it on herself.
So we`ve learned that she`s had some financial issues, and she likes to go to the casinos. And I think that this is a case that just started building
and building. What we don`t know is if her husband kind of caught on to it, which is what started this whole scenario.
BANFIELD: Do we -- you`re saying we don`t know if he caught on, or we do know he caught on, and then things started to unravel?
HARLOW: Well, we don`t know if he caught on.
BANFIELD: Oh.
HARLOW: But something obviously broke because he was her first victim. And that started this whole thing.
BANFIELD: And he was shot, right?
HARLOW: Yes, he was shot. We don`t know how long he`d been dead. But a co-worker of his, who I believe was supposed to go with him on a fishing
trip got concerned when nobody had seen him for a couple weeks.
And so he asked authorities to do a welfare check back on March 23rd. And that`s when they found David Riess shot dead in his home. And his wife was
gone missing.
BANFIELD: Man, that`s sad. There is this other little nugget that seems curious, but also starts to fit into the puzzle. And that is that the
police say after David was found dead, she forged three checks from his account to herself, and it wasn`t just little, it was like $11,000.
HARLOW: Yes. That kind of raised some red flags. And from what we`ve learned is that those transfers shouldn`t have happened. But somehow they
did.
And that also kind of plays into this, OK, why did she kill him, take the money, and run? And we think it`s all tied that she`s got a lot of
financial problems, and again, likes to frequent casinos.
BANFIELD: And that`s how we have this map of her whereabouts after the Minnesota killing of her husband David, it seems that she migrated
southward, stopping at a casino along the way, about 1,600 miles or so.
Later, she ends up in Fort Myers Beach where she ultimately is alleged to have met the second victim Pamela Hutchinson, who if we put up the side by
side split, it`s pretty uncanny who similar they seem to be.
But I`m still a little curious, Tim, about how they made the connection between the death of the woman on the left, Pamela Hutchinson, and the
woman they`re seeking on the right, Lois Ann Reiss for the murder of her husband? How did they connect it almost 2,000 miles away?
HARLOW: Well, one of the things, that they found the vehicle that she drove from the Minnesota down to Florida, it was a 2005 Cadillac Escalade.
And then there`s this video that surfaced -- well, was released today of her in the bar with who they believe is Ms. Hutchinson. So we think that
she drove to Florida, befriended Hutchinson, and then a few days later, they found Hutchinson dead. And so they kind of tied those pieces together
based on that.
BANFIELD: So, then this casino business, I`m looking at these sort of surveillance videos. I`m wondering if there are surveillance videos that
put Lois, who we`re seeing now, both of that casinos on the way, but then also at the various places where they`re apparently supposed to have gotten
together, Pamela and Lois.
Again, Pamela had no idea who Lois was. I mean, she is sort of this random person who she befriends, and I believe it was at a Smokin Oyster Brewery,
right, in Fort Myers?
HARLOW: Yes. Yes. The Smokin Oyster Brewery, and that was on April 5th. So that would have been on a Thursday. And Hutchinson was found shot dead
four days later on a Monday in her...
BANFIELD: In her -- in a condo, right? She was found...
HARLOW: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: Her condo or someone else`s condo, but definitely a condo. OK, so then they think she`s gone off to Corpus Christi. Do we know how we
ended up from Fort Myers Beach to Corpus Christi?
HARLOW: We don`t. I talked to Corpus Christi police today actually to see if they had any way to confirm that, if there are official sightings of
her, and they said no.
So, we`re not sure exactly where she is, and neither do they. But she did drive through Louisiana. There were some sightings of the -- well, of
Hutchinson`s car in Louisiana. So that`s how we believe...
BANFIELD: That`s the White Acura? Is that the White Acura?
HARLOW: That`s the White Acura.
BANFIELD: So let`s put that up. It`s a White Acura TL, the Florida plate is Y37TAA. I`m not sure if this is the actual, or if it`s just a look
alike, but that`s the Florida plate.
And then real quickly, Tim, do you know if the border agents are certain that she is still in the -- I mean, listen, Corpus Christi, they are no
brainer, right?
It`s a hop, skip, and a jump to bust the border, and go south. So the question is A, did they know she has busted the border, or B, are they on
high alert all along the Texas-Mexico border?
HARLOW: Well, that`s what I asked Corpus Christi police. They didn`t know how much border agents knew. However, U.S. marshals are involved in the
search for her.
So I would have to believe that they have been put on notice. The (Inaudible) Texas, they are looking. But again, no sign of this woman, but
she must be somewhere in that area, or on her way to Mexico. I mean, it seems like a pretty crazy place for her to go if she was trying to escape.
BANFIELD: And she`s on T.V. all over the nation right now. It is on all the big morning shows, on a national network right now, bars, and
restaurants, you know, have our signal up all the time, and so her photo is kind of emblazoned all across the country right now.
It`s kind of hard to avoid that, unless she`s dyed her hair, and changed her appearance. I want to bring in Daniele Watts Jeffreys, the cousin of
Pamela Hutchinson. Daniele, can you hear me? Daniele, are you there? Did we lose Daniele?
DANIELE WATTS JEFFREYS, COUSIN OF PAMELA HUTCHINSON: Can you hear me?
BANFIELD: Yes, I can hear you now. You can hear me OK?
JEFFREYS: OK. I can. You`re clear.
BANFIELD: So I think we have a little bit of a delay between us. And that`s always a little awkward. But, Daniele, first and foremost, as a
cousin of Pamela, who is tragically murdered in this, you know, our condolences go to you and your family in this very extraordinary time in
your life.
But it`s also such an incredible mystery. Do you have any idea why it is your cousin Pamela may have befriended this woman Lois Riess?
Specifically, Lois Riess, no, but my cousin was a friend to anybody. There`s a saying about her that she`s never met a stranger. She`s just an
open, welcoming woman, was.
BANFIELD: Had they met in that nice place that we heard about, the Smokin Oyster Brewery in Fort Myers, it wouldn`t be unusual to be friendly to her.
Do you think anything about this condo where she was either killed or found dead? Was it her condo? Was it someone else`s condo? It seems to be a
mystery.
WATTS JEFFREYS: It was not her condo. It was just one that she had rented. She was there in Fort Myers Beach to spread the ashes of a family member.
And that`s what brought her to Fort Myers Beach.
BANFIELD: So it was a double tragedy. She was there, you know, on a mission of mourning, and herself ends up a victim of a murder. Are the
police being good to you and the family in keeping you apprised of where they are in the investigation and the search for this woman who is now, you
know, she`s nationally wanted? She`s the subject of an American manhunt.
WATSS JEFFREYS: To add, it`s actually a triple tragedy because Pam should have left the day before, and that would have actually had her alive. She
stayed an additional day. But as far as the contact with the police, we haven`t heard anything. We`ve mainly just been continuing to follow the
search on social media and trying to push the story as much as possible.
BANFIELD: Well, I`m sure that there will be leads coming in after today, Daniele. This has had so much television, you know, saturation because it
is such a bizarre story. And again, our thoughts go out to you and your family on the loss of Pamela.
And I`m so sorry that she didn`t leave that day earlier. And I`m so sorry that she came into contact with a suspected and alleged murderer. We will
keep in touch with you to see what happens from here. Thank you so much. Thank you, Daniele.
WATTS JEFFREYS: Thank you so much.
BANFIELD: And my thanks also to Tim Harlow, reporter for the Star Tribune. We`re going to follow this and watch what happens, especially at the Texas-
Mexico border. That is a curious place and as we all know can be forest (ph) in places both north and south.
Sounds like an episode of Jerry Springer Show or Dr. Drew Show and it should. And there is a reason for it. Two sisters living together in L.A.
see their relationship go wrong, with one sister accused of killing the other, claiming it was an accident. But this was no TV show. And the sister
who survived is a TV producer. And now she`s the one facing murder charges.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Jill Blackstone was a TV storyteller for over 20 years. She helped Rosie O`Donnell and Jerry Springer and Sally Jessy Raphael and even
HLN`s Dr. Drew tell stories that were both sad and amazing.
But the seasoned (ph) L.A. producer just might have a shocking story of her own, which was not the story that she told the police when her sister Wendy
was found dead in the garage.
Jill reportedly said that the charcoal grill by Wendy`s feet was used to keep warm and roast marshmallows. And that the dead dog by Wendy`s side was
just another innocent victim of carbon monoxide poisoning.
But there was also reportedly a suicide note in that garage that police say Jill wrote, not the dead sister Wendy. And while Jill reportedly told
police she does not remember what happened in that garage or at that home, three years later, and all the way across the country, they arrested her
for murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON ROSS, NEIGHBOR: She was very quiet. She was very reserved. And you never know about reserved people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You never know about certain people. I do know about these three people. I want to bring in Los Angeles Times staff writer Richard Winton,
also medical examiner Dr. William Morrone is back with me, and Defense Attorney Darren Kavinoky also back with me.
OK. Richard, I`m going to begin with you, this is an extremely curious story. I want to give a full-throated addition here. Yes, she worked for
this network, for HLN. I never worked with her. I have never met her, to my knowledge.
She was in Los Angeles, I`ve always worked in New York. But just so that we`re all clear, she was a TV producer for a number of different entities,
including Dr. Drew when he was on HLN.
[18:40:04] So -- and I don`t recognize her either, so I`m not even sure if I passed her in the hallway at any time.
But with that in mind, Richard, I`m very curious about the timeline and how things kind of unfolded in this story. Can you walk me through, sort of the
Reader`s Digest version of it or the L.A. Times version of it, and how police found Wendy and how Jill factored in?
RICHARD WINTON, STAFF WRITER, THE LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, basically, Wendy was found in the garage. The garage is not attached. It`s a small
bungalow in Studio City, next to all the big studios, very near to where her sister worked.
She was found in the garage with a dead dog next to her, a charcoal grill barbecue still going, a small another barbecue device with some burning
coals in it. And basically, it was decided it`s combustible. It basically cut off the ash, basically died of carbon monoxide poisoning, combination
to the other combustibles.
The story her sister told is oh, I just woke up, and then I realized and found my sister, and I called 911. Police -- LAPD didn`t believe the story
from the start based on what they have seen in the coroner`s report, immediately suspicious of her, made an arrest.
The prosecutors didn`t decide to let them hold her. They basically played the long game here and have been investigating this for a while. And one
thing I see in the coroner`s report is, says sister wrote the suicide note, the suicide note was written by a woman who is deaf and partially blind.
There was also do not resuscitate notes. None of them were signed. The actual coroner`s note actually notes that they believe her sister wrote
these notes. The producer, they believe, wrote the notes for her sister.
Obviously the story has been under doubt from day one. They spent considerable -- nearly two years investigating this thing. By then, the --
well, the fairly well-known producer had moved back to the east coast, was living in Hoboken, New Jersey with relatives.
I understand they went to look for her, had a warrant for her arrest, found out she actually was now at John Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, went there
and detained her last week, took her into custody, and now she`s in custody of the Baltimore Police Department.
BANFIELD: Richard, it`s a weird -- I mean the whole thing is weird. The circumstance in the garage is weird. By all accounts, they seem to be
loving sisters. But then other things have emerged that, you know, because Wendy needed such intensive care.
WINTON: Yes. The questions over whether she had -- the producer happened to owe her sister a large amount of money over time --
BANFIELD: Bingo!
WINTON: -- and was there some medical conditions or burden of looking up - -
BANFIELD: Did I just lose you? Oh, rats. You know what? Richard was just getting into the interesting stuff about Wendy having this affliction with
her eyes and also her hearing that she needed all of this long-term care from Jill, the TV producer sister, and that there had been apparently a
bankruptcy, a chapter 11 bankruptcy filed, I think, back in 2012, which might also be part of this story.
So I`ll tell you what we`re going to do, because Richard is sort of the well that produces all of this great information from the Los Angeles
Times, I`m going to fit in a really quick break. We`re going to reconnect those wires that apparently went like that. And then I`m going to ask him a
few more questions, especially about this, right?
There was an empty vodka bottle that was found by Wendy. An empty vodka bottle. That would certainly explain a lot, wouldn`t it? Except that no
alcohol was found in Wendy`s system. Going to ask Richard about that next.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re back. We`re talking about that Hollywood producer who was just arrested for killing her own sister three years ago. Wendy
Blackstone`s body was reportedly found in their enclosed garage. She was lying next to a charcoal grill. And that garage was full of carbon
monoxide.
But there was something else detected in Wendy`s body, a drug called alprazolam, also known as Xanax. Police say Jill Blackstone gave that to he
sister before leaving her and the dogs in that smoke-out (ph) garage.
Still with me, Los Angeles Times staff writer Richard Winton who we reconnected via telephone because that`s what we do, forensic pathologist
Dr. William Morrone is still with me, and Defense Attorney Darren Kavinoky.
So, I`m sorry I lost you there, Richard. But I wanted to ask you about that vodka bottle, the mostly empty vodka bottle found next to Wendy`s body, and
yet no alcohol found in Wendy`s system. Was that sort of the linchpin that made them think this thing is staged, that it`s not a suicide?
WINTON (via telephone): It`s kind of an odd scenario. Why is the vodka bottle empty or nearly empty, let`s be careful to say that, nearly empty
which means it`s not just an old vodka bottle left in the garage.
And then we get a negative on the alcohol in the testing of blood. And you get plenty of Xanax. It raises questions right away. Also, her sister`s
story, I just -- someone calls and she says, oh, I just woke up.
[18:50:00] You know, it`s like -- and also how long did it take to find her sister? Because when I looked at the premises, the garage is not
attached, it`s a separate garage from the bungalow. So there are reasons why she would have gone to the garage.
Why would -- obviously, these are, you know, intelligent people. Most people know using a charcoal barbecue in a garage might be dangerous. So to
believe that is also kind of a stretch as well, I think.
BANFIELD: There was like a DNR, a do not resuscitate note, as well, among the different leaflets of paper with writings on them. And the suicide
note, the do not resuscitate, also not signed by Wendy?
WINTON (via telephone): No, it was not signed. All the notes weren`t, basically just scattered there next to her. And none of them was signed. In
the coroner`s notes, it literally says the word, sister wrote the note.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: Oh, Lord! That`s telling. Wow!
WINTON (via telephone): Yes. It`s not even like hidden. It`s like literally in the coroner`s notes written at the scene, written from the
detective.
BANFIELD: Wonder how he figured that, though. How would a coroner know that, like how would a coroner know handwriting, et cetera. But real quick,
more importantly, do you know if Wendy had life insurance?
WINTON (via telephone): I do not know if Wendy had life insurance. I do know that there was considerable money which had gone to her sister over
the years. The house promptly sold for just over a million dollars shortly after the death.
BANFIELD: Oh, who got the million?
WINTON (via telephone): Not clear, but, you know, obviously next of kin usually tends to inherit.
BANFIELD: She lived there too. Didn`t Jill live there in that house?
WINTON (via telephone): Yes, she did.
BANFIELD: OK. Well, that`s interesting.
WINTON (via telephone): It was a stone throw from the studio most of her career.
BANFIELD: You don`t have to prove motive in any murder trial. But if you`re going to be talking to a jury, they sure want to hear something.
Richard, don`t go anywhere.
I want to bring in Dr. Will Morrone because Dr. Morrone, the notion that the police thought that this was staged, I want to ask you, when you go
into a death scene, what are you looking for if you have that sense something isn`t right? And specifically, what are you looking for that
would be the telltale that something is staged?
WILLIAM MORRONE, MEDICAL EXAMINER AND FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, you look for the position of the body because it`s considered a crime scene. And if
that body is positioned in such a way that it looks like it was getting out or it was incapacitated, then you`re suspicious. Position of the body is
primal.
BANFIELD: And did that whole vodka scenario, does that pass the smell test for you? The bottle, as Richard just reported, was almost empty. And
there`s not a stitch of that stuff in her blood. And yet there`s alprazolam. Dr. Morrone?
MORRONE: What it means is -- yes, I`m here.
BANFIELD: OK, go ahead.
MORRONE: She did not the drink the vodka. She did not drink the vodka. Because even after hours, maybe days, we can test blood levels. The only
blood level that`s relevant in her is the alprazolam, which is a generic for Xanax. It was listed as cause A in the death. Cause A with
combustibles.
BANFIELD: Interesting. Darren Kavinoky, real quickly, because every time we see the photos, we see these really cute dogs. And I don`t want that to
be lost in this either because there were three dogs involved. One of them was found dead beside Wendy. The other one was found alive, but later
succumbed to the injuries from the gases. And one of the dogs lived.
So, it turns out Jill is also facing cruelty to animals. Three counts. Even though one lived, you know. Three counts. How serious is that? You know,
obviously she`s facing a far more serious charge of murder which in California can carry the death penalty. It is not in this case. But how
serious is the animal cruelty in this case?
DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t see that as a factor kind of an add-on for prosecutors to be thorough. But I`m sure she would be quite
willing to plea bargain to that cruelty to animals charge in exchange for dropping the murder case. So, I think that is the least of her concerns at
this point. First is extradition where she is going to be brought back from Baltimore to face charges here in Los Angeles.
BANFIELD: Yes. But she never for a moment in her career thought that she would have a story like this playing out on television. She`s a producer of
these stories. It`s really weird too to have somebody in the family doing that.
All right. Guys, thank you so much. Dr. Morrone, as always. Richard Winton, it was good to see you before we lost your face, but your voice is
fabulous. Thank you for being here for us. We are going to continue to follow that story.
I also have one more thing for you when we come back. The most dangerous city in America. No, it is not this place, New York. You`re absolutely not
going to believe what city topped the list, next.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Got one more thing for you tonight, the most dangerous city in the United States. It isn`t New York. It`s not even L.A. or Chicago. You
ready? It`s in Louisiana. Who knew?
[18:59:58] According to neighborhoodscout.com, Monroe is the most dangerous city in America, followed by Bessemer, Alabama in Burmingham
suburb, and then East St. Louis, Illinois.
And in case you are wondering, tomorrow night we are going to tell you what these three safest cities are because that`s the kind of people we are.
Next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need help, help, I can`t hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A high school sophomore suffocates in his car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m trapped in my van.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It took six hours to find him, but he called 911 twice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We weren`t able to get that information to the officers on the scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was this tennis player`s death just a tragedy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I probably don`t have much time left. So tell my mom I love her if I die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Or did the dispatcher make a deadly mistake?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The nationwide manhunt for a grandma on the run.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds like a CSI episode, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like some sort of novel, some sort of like murder mystery novel.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s accused of killing her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Believe the same firearm was used.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then traveled across the country to take a random woman`s life and identity. Her literal dead ringer. Did she target the
woman for her looks? And where is she tonight?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She might -- I don`t know, kill again.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the TV producer, arrested for killing her sister.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An accident happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say she staged it to look like an accident. But now disturbing details are coming out of that smoked out garage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The dogs have died, I see. And animal control was here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And police think they know why she did it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to the second hour of CRIME AND JUSTICE.
All parents of 16-year-olds worry about their kids` safety in the car. Because 16 is that bewitching age when they got behind the wheel. The
thing is they are not typically concerned about the kids safety when the car is parked.
But that is how 16-year-old Kyle Plush died last week. In his high school parking lot, getting his tennis equipment from the back of the 2004 Honda
Odyssey. Police say he was somehow crushed beneath the back row seat that folds into the trunk. And he tried to use the voice commands to make a 911
call, a call that when you hear it will not be easy to forget.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cincinnati 911, what is the address of your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m stuck inside the van outside the seven hills parking lot. Help! Help! Help!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cincinnati 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help! I`m stuck inside van outside the Seven Hill parking lot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Seven Hills what parking lot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help, I need help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Sin.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help! Help! Help!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you? Hello? Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear me?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m outside the Seven Hills parking lot, I am trapped in my van. Help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t hear you. I`m in desperate need of help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is the address?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help, help. I can`t hear you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you? Hello?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to die here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: That suffocating boy and the dispatcher, obviously struggling to hear one another. What is not obvious is why it took six hours to find
that young man in a parking lot after school hours, even after Kyle managed to make that second 911 call with this next horrifying request?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, what is the address of your emergency?
[19:05:01] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anyone there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can`t hear what you are saying. Just send quickly. I`m stuck. I`m stuck in an Odyssey van. I probably don`t have much time
left. Tell my mom that I love her if I die. This is not a joke. This is not a joke. I`m trapped inside my Honda odyssey van in the sophomore
parking lot of Seven Hills. Send officers immediately. I`m almost dead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Kyle`s death is tragic. But adding to the tragedy is the police department`s admission since that information, the information from the
second call was never conveyed to the officers who were out looking for him, that gold Honda Odyssey. It was Kyle`s father who was the first one
to find him, and, of course, by then, it was far, far too late.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF ELLIOT ISAAC, CINCINNATI POLICE DEPARTMENT: This young man was crying out for help. We weren`t able to get that information to the
officers on the scene. And we need to find out why.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Boy, do they?
I want to bring in Melissa Neeley, anchor and reporter for 700WLW. Also, sergeant Dan Hills is the president of the Cincinnati fraternal order of
police and defense attorney Darren Kavinoky is with me. Also joining us is Lauren Fix. Lauren is the car coach.
Thank you to all of you.
Melissa, if I can begin with you, what went wrong? He gave them everything. I`m in my gold Honda Odyssey. He gave the address over and
over of the parking lot. How did they not find him?
MELISSA NEELEY, ANCHOR/REPORTER, 700WLW (on the phone): Well, that is what is still being investigated. And why all that transpired that terrible
day. Of course, we know that he was reaching over the backseat to pick up his tennis equipment. He was on the tennis team. And when he did that,
the seat flipped over and trapped his body between the seat and the rear gate at the back of the van. And so he was using, like you said, the voice
command to dial 911. When it`s great that the phone has that feature. However, what transpired after that was not what we would all open.
NEELEY: So but -- what I don`t understand, Melissa, is I heard him as clear as day, and this is over a telephone line, edited on to a videotape,
edited through the television, through my very scratchy (INAUDIBLE). I could hear him say I`m in a gold Honda Odyssey. I`m in the Seven Hills
parking lot. Help, I can`t breathe. I`m going to die. Tell my mom I love her. This is no joke.
I heard everything. And he had to make two calls to two different operators. Why did the second operator who got the gold Honda Odyssey
information not tell the police who were not out there and looking look for a gold Honda Odyssey? It is clear as day. Look at this van, it`s huge.
NEELEY: Yes, that`s right. And we are, all of us that have listened to this 911 tapes are totally affected by the fact that he is crying out for
help, and telling his location, and also telling the description of the van in the second call. What we do know is that the 911 dispatcher said she
could not hear what he was saying. And we suspect at this time, and we have heard from some police officials, that there may have been a breakdown
of the computer-aided dispatch. And so they are investigating that. And I`m sure --.
BANFIELD: Breakdown? I heard it all. I heard everything. And I`m not in the job of picking up a phone with the sole purpose of hearing someone say
something because they are in despair. Like, my job is not to do that, and yet I could hear it perfectly on the first take. I didn`t need two takes,
three takes or four takes.
Let me just play something, if I can, the police chief, Elliott Isaac, we saw earlier. He has this to say about that communication and the breakdown
of sending that gold Honda Odyssey information to the police who were dispatched out to take a look. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ISAAC: The call taker did not communicate with the caller and the information from this second call was not relayed to the officers who were
still on the scene at the time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So there`s also this recording of a dispatch talking to a deputy in the field and referring to how this was a strange call, a strange call,
she kept saying help, help. Obviously the dispatch thinks it`s a she in the car. So have a listen to how that transpired.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:04] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was really strange call, but she kept just saying help, help, I`m stuck. And it sounded like she said inside my
van, and I`m in the Seven Hills parking lot, but I couldn`t tell what parking lot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So let me bring in Dan Hills, president of the Cincinnati fraternal order of police.
Sergeant Hills help me to understand how I keep hearing all these things, and I`ll just tell you some of the things I have heard today, that the TTY
system, I don`t know what that stands for, but the TTY system for hearing- impaired callers somehow is part of this because a tone is heard. And that the computer aided dispatch, the cad system was acting up or on the fritz.
You can tell me all these acronyms in the world, but I heard every word that child said. Why did the dispatcher not hear it and relay it properly
in the two calls this kid made?
DAN HILLS, PRESIDENT, CINCINNATI FRATERNAL ORDER OF POLICE (on the phone): Well, You want to know, and so do I. And so does everybody in Cincinnati.
Let me tell you, so do the police officers who were on the scene and did not have the complete information.
What we know, like you said, is there was two different calls. And in that second call was the vital information that could have really helped the
officers hone in. It`s a very large school. Kids were exiting the school. There was a number of lots. And, you know, literally, you know, a hundred
cars or more. And as the officers looked, there was nothing that -- nothing that drew them to any of these things. If they could have had the
information about the gold Odyssey, that would have been more than likely changed everything.
BANFIELD: I mean, yes. I think in a hundred cars, there would only be one of those, right? And as it turns out, sergeant, only 11 minutes, the cops
were on the scene looking. For 11 minutes they searched five of the seven lots. Does that sound appropriate?
HILLS: Well, there`s more than 11 minutes there because there was a deputy that was actually assigned to the school and took the officer`s information
and said he would continue to follow up.
What the officers believe they had, because of the missing information, and what turned out they had were two different things. They pictured such
things as a domestic situation or something that would have drawn more attention and drawn attention from people that were near.
One thing that, you know, as people try to imagine this, underneath that seat and how he was pinned, he wasn`t able to vocalize enough that even
people who were parked probably within one or two spaces from there --
BANFIELD: But he was banging on the car at one point.
HILLS: They could not hear him either.
BANFIELD: He was banging on the car though.
HILLS: That second call, that information of whether or not that dispatcher heard it through her --
BANFIELD: Critical, yes. She is apparently not working there. She is not working there anymore, that we know of. We still don`t know if there`s any
kind of punitive action taken. And I will ask Darren Kavinoky a little bit about that in a second.
But Lauren Fix, do you know anything about what Honda is saying in terms of that? If we put that strange diagram up, it shows how he just leaned over
those backseats to pick up his tennis gear in the back and the whole backseat went backwards and pinned him upside down like that? Is this
normal? Has Honda ever had something happen like this before? It is Honda on the hook to this.
LAUREN FIX, CAR COACH: In 1999 to 2004, they made that same style, the deep well where you put your -- store your items, and then if you need to
fold your third seats down, the back goes down, and the top, the bottom cushion goes on top of it. It`s a pretty heavy assembly.
So from what we have been told and what I have read, he wasn`t a very heavy kid, but he also wasn`t very tall. So when he reached over the back, he
must - we are assuming that he went to change his clothes and went to grab his racket. And when he reached over the back, he must have somehow
clipped the hinge and that caused the seat to come down. This has never happened before.
BANFIELD: And I will tell you, Darren, I have got 30 seconds left. But is this wrongful death? Is this freak accident? And if it`s wrongful death,
is it the police or is it Honda, or is it both?
DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, could be both. Could be a products liability lawsuit against Honda. Definitely a wrongful death
action against the people we are also offended by misbehavior, and that relates to the 911 system, total, total breakdown. It`s insane that I can
use the find my phone feature to track down my iPhone and wherever in the world it might be. But these guys departed the scene so quickly, and
couldn`t locate the kid in distress, it`s absolutely shocking.
BANFIELD: And it`s so upsetting to hear, you know, almost his last utterance, tell my mom I love her. I cannot imagine what those parents are
going through. It`s such a sad, sad story.
Thank you to Melissa Neeley, Dan Hills, Lauren Fix and Darren Kavinoky. Appreciate all of your input.
Tonight, the nationwide manhunt for a 56-year-old grandmother facing two murder charges. She`s on the run. And she is suspected of killing her
husband in Minnesota and a Florida woman who may have been killed just because they looked a whole lot the same. We`ll explain why next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:22] BANFIELD: Tonight, there`s a nationwide manhunt for a very scary suspect, on the run and accused of killing two people in two
different states. And believe it or not, that very scary suspect is this grandma, a grandma from a small Minnesota town. But she is considered
armed and dangerous. Make no mistake and no mind to smile because one of the people she is accused of killing is her own husband. And the other is
a seemingly random woman in Florida whom she may have purposely targeted because she looks almost exactly the same.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNDERSHERIFF CARMINE MARCENO, LEE COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: She smiles and looks like anyone`s mother or grandmother yet she is calculated, she`s
targeted, and she`s an absolute cold-blooded killer. Suspect Reese at some point in time will have no resources, and she will become more desperate
and may kill again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Lois Reese`s husband was found shot to death at home back in March. It would be a while though before anybody would find his body. A
couple weeks later she is alleged to have killed the other victim. And police told the "Today" show that she could very well kill again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCENO: Further investigation revealed that Ms. Hutchinson was targeted by the suspect due to the similarities and their appearance. Reese`s modus
operation is to befriend women who resemble her and steal their identity. U.S. marshals are actively involves in a national search for this dangerous
fugitive. Reese is considered armed and dangerous and should not be approached if located.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: I want to bring in Tim Harlow. He is reporter with the "Star Tribune." Also Pamela Hutchinson`s cousin, Danielle Watts Jeffries. And
Darren Kavinoky is still with me as well.
Tim, if can begin with you. The admonition from the police is worrisome for a number of reasons. Obviously, anybody who is on the run and is a
fugitive from justice in this digital age can be tracked a lot easier than say, ten, 20 years ago. And that makes them desperate. And in this
particular case, they alleged that she was desperate and needed the identities of someone who looked like her. Do they think she may kill
again, someone who looks like her or do they think she just may kill anybody?
TIM HARLOW, REPORTER, STAR TRIBUNE (on the phone): They think that she may kill anybody. They haven`t said specifically if she would go after
somebody who looks like her. At desperate times call for desperate measures. And this was a very desperate woman. So I would think that
anybody who comes in contact with her is in danger.
BANFIELD: So tell me a little bit about what -- what started all of this? Because as I understand it, up until, you know, just recently, I think this
woman had a traffic ticket. This is not a hardened criminal that you typically hear about when police say armed and dangerous and don`t go near
her, just call the police. This was the woman you are seeing in the picture, just a Minnesota mom, grandma.
HARLOW: Yes. It`s real interesting. You know, we did some digging in some court records and found that she was the guardian of one of her
sisters who is bipolar and suffers from clinical depression. And she also has a pension for going to casinos. And so, two years ago there was a
request that she be removed as the guardian for her older sister, which was granted. And then they did some audits and found that she was accused of
taking $78,000 from her disabled sister, and spending it on herself.
So we have learned that she has had some financial issues, and she likes to go to the casinos. And I think that this is a case that just started
building and building. What we don`t know is if her husband kind of caught on to it, which is what started this whole scenario.
BANFIELD: You say we don`t know if he caught on or we do know he caught on? And then things started to unravel?
HARLOW: No. We don`t know if he caught on. But something obviously broke because he was her first victim.
BANFIELD: And he was shot, right?
HARLOW: Yes, he was shot. We don`t know how long he`d been dead. But a co-worker of his, who I believe was supposed to go with him on a fishing
trip got concerned when nobody had seen him for a couple weeks. And so, he asked authorities to do a welfare check back on March 23rd. And that`s
when they found David Reese shot dead in his home and his wife was gone missing.
BANFIELD: Man, that`s sad.
There is this other little nugget that seems curious, but also starts to fit into the puzzle. And that is that the police say after David was found
dead, she forged three checks from his account to herself, and it wasn`t just little, it was like $11,000.
[19:25:06] HARLOW: Yes. That kind of raised some red flags. And from what we have learned is that those transfers shouldn`t have happened. But
somehow they did. And that also kind of plays into this, OK, why did she kill him, take the money and run? And we think it`s all tied that she`s
got a lot of financial problems, and, again, likes to frequent casinos.
BANFIELD: That`s how we have this map of her whereabouts after the Minnesota killing of her husband David. It seems that she migrated
southward, stopping at a casino along the way. About 1,600 miles or so later she ends up in Fort Myers beach where she ultimately is alleged to
have met the second victim Pamela Hutchinson, who if we put up the side by side split, it`s pretty uncanny how similar they seem to be.
But I`m still a little curious, Tim, about how they made the connection between the death of the woman on the left, Pamela Hutchinson, and the
woman they are seeking on the right, Lois Ann Reese, for the murder of her husband? How did they connect it almost 2,000 miles away?
HARLOW: Well, one of the things that they found the vehicle that she drove from the Minnesota down to Florida, it was a 2005 Cadillac escalade. And
then there`s this video that surfaced -- well, was released today of her in the bar with what -- who they believe is Miss Hutchinson. So we think that
she drove to Florida, befriended Hutchinson, and then a few days later they found Hutchinson dead. And so they kind of tied those pieces together
based on that.
BANFIELD: So then this casino business, I`m looking at these sort of surveillance videos. And I`m wondering if there are surveillance videos
that put Lois, who we are seeing now, both at casinos on the way, but then also at the various places where they`re apparently supposed to have gotten
together, Pamela and Lois. Again, Pamela had no idea who Lois was, sort of this random person she befriends, and I believe it was a smoke and oyster
brewery, right, in Fort Myers?
BANFIELD: Yes. The smoke and oyster brewery and that was on April 5th. So that would have been on a Thursday. And Hutchinson was found shot dead
four days later on a Monday in her --
BANFIELD: In a condo, right? She was found --
HARLOW: Yes.
BANFIELD: Her condo or someone else`s condo, but definitely a condo.
OK, so then they think she`s gone off to Corpus Christi. Do we know how we ended up from Fort Myers beach to Corpus Christi?
HARLOW: We don`t. I talked to Corpus Christi police today actually to see if they had any way to confirm that, if there are official sightings of
her, they said no. So we are not sure exactly where she is, and neither do they. But she did drive through Louisiana. There were some sightings of
the -- well, of Hutchinson`s car in Louisiana.
BANFIELD: That`s the white Acura?
HARLOW: That`s the white Acura.
BANFIELD: So let`s put that up. The white Acura TL, the Florida plate is Y37TAA. I`m not sure if this is the actual, or if it`s just a look alike,
but that`s the Florida plate.
And then real quickly, Tim, do you know if the border agents are certain that she is still in the - I mean, listen, Corpus Christi, no brainer,
right. It is a hop skip and a jump to bust the border and go south. So the question is, a, do they know if she`s busted the border? Or b, are
they on high alert all along the Texas border?
HARLOW: Well, that`s what I asked Corpus Christi police. They didn`t know how much border agents knew. However, U.S. Marshalls are involved in the
search for her. And so I would have to believe that they are put on notice. It`s hard to search in Texas. They are looking. But, again, no
sign of this woman, but she must be somewhere in that area or on her way to Mexico. I mean, it seems like a pretty crazy place for her to go if she`s
not trying to escape.
BANFIELD: And she`s on TV all over the nation right now, is on all the big morning shows, on a national network right now, bars and restaurants, you
know, have our signal up all the time. And so her photo is kind of emblazoned all across the country right now. It is kind of hard to avoid
that. Unless she has dyed her hair and changed her appearance.
I want to bring in Danielle Watts Jeffries, the cousin of Pamela Hutchinson.
Danielle, can you hear me? Are you there? Did we lose Danielle?
DANIELLE WATTS JEFFRIES, PAMELA HUTCHINSON`S COUSIN: Can you hear me?
BANFIELD: Yes. I can hear you now. You can hear me OK?
JEFFRIES: I can, you are clear.
BANFIELD: So I think we have a little bit of a delay between. And that`s always a little awkward.
But Danielle, first and foremost as a cousin of Pamela who is tragically murdered in this, you know, our condolences go to you and your family in
this very extraordinary time in your life. But it`s also such an incredible mystery. Do you have any idea why it is your cousin Pamela may
have befriended this woman Lois Riess?
DANIELE WATTS JEFFREYS, COUSIN OF PAMELA HUTCHINSON: Specifically, Lois Riess, no, but my cousin was a friend to everybody. There`s a saying about
her that she`s never met a stranger. She`s just open, welcoming woman -- was.
BANFIELD: And so, had they met in that nice place that we heard about, the Smokin Oyster Brewery in Fort Myers, it wouldn`t be unusual to be friendly
to her, do you know anything about this condo where she was either killed or found dead? Was it her condo, was it someone else`s condo? It seems to
be a bit of a mystery.
JEFFREYS: It was not her condo. It was just one that she had rented. She was there in Fort Myers Beach to spread the ashes of a family member, and
that`s what brought her to Fort Myers Beach.
BANFIELD: And so, it`s just a double tragedy. She was there, you know, on a mission of mourning, and herself ends up a victim of a murder. Are the
police being good to you and the family in keeping you apprised of where they are in the investigation and the search for this woman who is now, you
know, she`s nationally wanted? She`s the subject of an American manhunt.
JEFFREYS: To add, it`s actually a triple tragedy because Pam should have left the day before, and that would have actually had her alive. She
stayed an additional day. But as far as the contact with the police, we haven`t heard anything. We`ve mainly just been continuing to follow the
search on social media and trying to push the story as much as possible.
BANFIELD: Well, I`m sure that there will be leads coming in after today, Daniele. This has had so much television, you know, saturation because it
is such a bizarre story. And again, our thoughts go out to you and your family on the loss of Pamela. And I`m so sorry that she didn`t leave that
day earlier, and I`m so sorry that she came into contact with a -- with a suspected and alleged murderer. We will keep in touch with you to see what
happens from here. Thank you so much. Thank you, Daniele.
JEFFREYS: Thank you so much.
BANFIELD: And my thanks also to Tim Harlow, reporter for the Star Tribune. We`re going to follow this and watch what happens, especially at that
Texas-Mexico border. That is a curious place, and as we all know, can be porous in places both north and south. Sounds like an episode of "Jerry
Springer Show" or "Dr. Drew" show, and it should and there`s a reason for it.
Two sisters living together in L.A., see their relationship go wrong, with one sister accused of killing the other, claiming it was an accident. But
this was no T.V. show and the sister who survived is a T.V. producer. And now, she`s the one facing murder charges.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Jill Blackstone was a T.V. storyteller for over 20 years. She helped Rosie O`Donnell and Jerry Springer, and Sally Jessy Raphael, and
even HLN`s Dr. Drew tell stories that were both sad and amazing. But the seasoned L.A. producer just might have a shocking story of her own, which
was not the story that she told the police when her sister Wendy was found dead in the garage. Jill reportedly said that the charcoal grill by
Wendy`s feet was used to keep warm and roast marshmallows, and that the dead dog by Wendy`s side was just another innocent victim of carbon
monoxide poisoning. But there was also reportedly a suicide note in that garage that police say Jill wrote, not the dead sister Wendy. And while
Jill reportedly told police she does not remember what happened in that garage or at that home, three years later, and all the way across the
country, they arrested her for murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON ROSS, NEIGHBOR: She was very quiet. She was very reserved and you never know about reserved people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You never know about certain people. I do know about these three people. I want to bring in Los Angeles Times Staff Writer Richard
Winton. Also, Medical Examiner Dr. William Morrone is back with me. And Defense Attorney Darren Kavinoky also back with me.
OK. Richard, I`m going to begin with you. This is an extremely curious story. I want the give a full throated admission here. Yes, she worked
for this network, for HLN. I never worked with her, I have never met her, to my knowledge. She was in Los Angeles, I`ve always worked in New York.
But just so that we`re all clear, she was a T.V. producer for a number of different entities, including Dr. Drew when he was on HLN. So -- and I
don`t recognize her either so I`m not even sure if I`ve passed her in a hallway at any time.
[19:40:00] But with that in mind, Richard, I am very curious about the timeline and how things kind of unfolded in this story. Can you walk me
through, sort of The Readers Digest version of it or the L.A. Times Version of it, and how police found Wendy, and how Jill factored in?
RICHARD WINTON, STAFF WRITER, THE LOS ANGELES TIMES: Well, basically, Wendy was found in the garage. The garage is not attached. It`s a small
bungalow in Studio City, next to all the big studios, very near to where she -- her sister worked. She was found in the garage with a dead dog next
to her, a charcoal grill barbeque still going, a small another barbecue device with some burning holes in it and basically it`s decided it`s
combustible. It`s basically cut off of the air. She basically died of carbon monoxide poisoning in combination with the other combustibles. The
story her sister told is, oh, I just woke up and then I realized and found my sister, and I called 911. Police -- LAPD didn`t believe the story from
the start based on what I`ve seen in the coroner`s report, immediately suspicious of her, made an arrest.
The prosecutors didn`t decide to let them hold her, but you know, they basically played the long game here and have been investigating this for a
while, and decide -- and one thing I see in the coroner`s report is, says sister wrote the suicide note. The suicide note was written by a woman who
is deaf and partially blind. There was also do not resuscitate notes. None of them were signed. But in the actual coroner`s note, it actually
notes that they believe her sister wrote these notes. The producer, they believed, wrote the notes for her sister.
Obviously, the story`s been under doubt from day one. They spent -- you know, in two years investigating this thing. By then, the -- well, fairly
well-known producer had moved back to the east coast, was living in Hoboken New Jersey with relatives. I understand they went to look for her, had a
warrant for her arrest, found out she`d actually was now at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, went there and detained her last week, took her into
custody, and now, she`s in a custody of the Baltimore Police Department.
BANFIELD: So, Richard, it`s a weird -- I mean, the whole thing is weird. The circumstance in the garage is weird. By all accounts, they seem to be
loving sisters, but then, other things have emerged that, you know, because Wendy needed such intensive care.
WINTON: Yes, the question of all these questions over whether she had -- the producer happened to owe her sister a large amount of money over time.
BANFIELD: Bingo.
WINTON: And, you know, was there some medical conditions or burden of looking up.
BANFIELD: Did I just lose you? Oh, rats. You know what? He -- gosh, Richard was just getting into the interesting stuff about Wendy having this
affliction with her eyes and also her hearing that she needed all of this long-term care from Jill, the T.V. producer`s sister, and that there had
been apparently a bankruptcy. A Chapter 11 bankruptcy filed, I think, back in 2012, which might also be part of this story. So, I`ll tell you what
we`re going to do, because Richard is sort of the well that produces all of this great information from the Los Angeles Times, I`m going to fit in a
really quick break. We`re going to reconnect those wires that apparently went like that. And then, I`m going to ask him a few more questions,
especially about this, right? There was an empty vodka bottle that was found by Wendy. An empty vodka bottle. Well, that would certainly explain
a lot, wouldn`t it? Except that no alcohol was found in Wendy`s system. Going to ask Richard about that next.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re back and we`re talking about that Hollywood producer who was just arrested for killing her own sister three years ago. Wendy
Blackstone`s body was reportedly found in their enclosed garage, and she was lying next to a charcoal grill. And that garage was full of carbon
monoxide, but there was something else detected in Wendy`s body, a drug called Alprazolam, also known as Xanax, and police say Jill Blackstone gave
that to her sister before leaving her and the dogs in that smoked-out garage.
Still with me, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer Richard Winton, who we`ve reconnected via telephone because that`s what we do. Forensic Pathologist
Dr. William Morrone is still with me and Defense Attorney Darren Kavinoky.
So, I`m sorry I lost you there, Richard but I wanted to ask you about that vodka bottle, that mostly empty vodka bottle found next to Wendy`s body,
and yet, no alcohol found in Wendy`s system. Is -- was that sort of the linchpin that made them think this thing is staged, this isn`t a suicide?
WINTON: It`s kind of an odd scenario. Why is the vodka bottle empty, or nearly empty, let`s be careful to say that, nearly empty, which means it`s
not just an old vodka bottle left in the garage. And then, we get a negative on the alcohol in the testing of blood and you get plenty of
Xanax. So, it does -- it makes -- creates these questions right away. Also, her sister`s story, I just -- someone calls and she says, oh, I just
woke up. You know, it`s like -- and also how long did it take to find her sister? Because I look -- when I looked at the premises and the garage is
not attached, it`s a separate garage in a -- from the bungalow.
[19:50:04] So there`s, you know, reasons why she would have gone to the garage, why would -- obviously, these are, you know, intelligent people.
They -- most people know using a charcoal barbeque in a garage might be dangerous. So, to believe that is also a kind of a stretch as well, I
think.
BANFIELD: And there was a -- like DNR, a do not resuscitate note as well. Among the different leaflets of paper with writings on them and the suicide
note, the do not resuscitate also not signed by Wendy?
WINTON: No, it was not signed. There -- all the -- all the notes were basically just scattered there next to her and none of them were signed.
And in the coroner`s notes, it literally says the word "sister wrote the note."
BANFIELD: Oh, lord. No, that`s telling.
WINTON: Yes, yes. It`s not even, you know, it`s not even, like, hidden. It`s like literally in the coroner`s notes written at the scene, which is
written from the detective.
BANFIELD: I wonder how he figured that, though. How would a coroner know that? Like how would a coroner know handwriting, et cetera? But real
quick -- more importantly, do you know if Wendy had life insurance?
WINTON: I do not know if Wendy had life insurance. I do know that there was considerable money which had gone to her sister over the years. The
house promptly sold for just over $1 million shortly after the death.
BANFIELD: Oh, who got the million?
WINTON: Not clear, but, you know, obviously, next to kin usually tends to inherit.
BANFIELD: And she lived there, too. Didn`t she live there, in that house?
WINTON: Yes, she did.
BANFIELD: OK. Well, that`s interesting.
(CROSSTALK)
WINTON: It was a stone throw from the studio where she -- most of her career.
BANFIELD: Like you don`t have to prove motive in any murder trial but if you`re going to be talking to a jury, they sure want to hear something.
Richard, don`t go anywhere. I want to bring in Dr. Bill Morrone because -- Dr. Morrone, the notion that the police thought that this was staged, I
wanted to ask you, when you go into a death scene, what are you looking for if you have that spidey sense something isn`t right? And specifically,
what are you looking for that would be the tell-tale that something is staged?
DR. WILLIAM MORRONE, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, you look for the position of the body because it`s considered a crime scene and if that body is
positioned in such a way that it looks like it was getting out or it was incapacitated, then, you`re suspicious. Position of the body is primal.
BANFIELD: And does that whole vodka scenario, does that pass the smell test for you? The bottle, as Richard just reported, was almost empty and
there`s not a (INAUDIBLE) of that stuff in her blood, and yet, there`s Alprazolam.
Dr. Morrone?
MORRONE: What it means is -- yes, I`m here.
BANFIELD: OK, go ahead.
MORRONE: She did not drink the vodka. She did not drink the vodka because even after hours, maybe days, we can test blood levels. The only blood
level that`s relevant in her is the Alprazolam, which is a generic for Xanax, and it was listed as cause A in the death. Cause A with
combustibles.
BANFIELD: Interesting. Hey, Darren Kavinoky, real quickly, because every time we see the photos, we see these really cute dogs and I don`t want that
to be lost in this either, because they were three dogs involved. One of them was found dead beside Wendy, the other one was found alive but later
succumbed to the injuries from the gases, and one of the dogs lived. And so, it turns out Jill is also facing cruelty to animals -- three. Three
counts even though one lived, you know. Three counts. How serious is that, you know, obviously, she`s facing a far more serious charge of
murder, which in California can carry the death penalty. It`s not in this case but how serious is the animal cruelty in this case?
DARREN KAVINOKY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I don`t see that as a factor. It kind of an add on for prosecutors to be thorough but I`m sure she`d be
quite willing to plea bargain into that cruelty to animals charge in exchange for dropping the murder case. So, I think that is the least of
her concerns at this point. First is extradition where she`s going to be brought back from Baltimore to face charges here in Los Angeles.
BANFIELD: Yes, boy, I bet she never for a moment in her career thought that she would have a story like this playing out on television. She`s a
producer of these stories, you know, so it`s really -- it`s weird, too, to have somebody in the family be doing that.
All right, guys, thank you so much. Dr. Morrone, as always. Richard Winton, it was good to see you before we lost your face but your voice is
(INAUDIBLE) which is fabulous, and thank you for being here for us. We`re going to continue to follow that story. I also have "ONE MORE THING" for
you when we come back. The most dangerous city in America, no, it is not this place, New York. You`re absolutely not going to believe what city
topped the list, next.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, the most dangerous city in the United States of America. You think you know it right? It is not New
York, it is not L.A, and it is not Chicago. I was so surprised. It`s in Louisiana. According to neighborhoodscout.com, Monroe, Louisiana is the
most dangerous city in America. Followed by Bessemer, Alabama, which is a Birmingham suburb, and also East St. Louis, Illinois. So, I know your next
question will be, well, where do I go then? Be sure to join us tomorrow night because that`s when I`m going to tell you the three safest cities in
America.
In the meantime, thank you for watching tonight. By the way, you can listen to our show any time. Just download our Podcast. It`s on Apple
Podcast, iHeartRadio, Stitcher, TuneIn, or wherever you find your podcast for your CRIME & JUSTICE fix.
END
