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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Golden State Serial Killer Caught; Serial Killer Caught After 42 Years On Run. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired April 25, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He came in, had a ski mask on, and jumped on the bed and had a knife. And I don`t exactly remember what he said. Something to
the effect of, you know, don`t scream.
Shut up, shut up, shut up or I`ll kill you.
Laid there for two hours. He came in, I don`t know, I think five different times or something like that over the course of the night and raped me.
I believe he will be found.
Dead or alive.
The answer`s out there, we need a name.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Joseph DeAngelo.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An arrest warrant was issued.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had our man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Filed capital murder charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The east side rapist, the Visalia Ransacker, the original night stalker and the Golden State Killer.
We are determined and we will, god willing, hold this man fully accountable for his crimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: An extraordinary day for justice. Good evening, everyone, I`m Pat Lalama from "Crime Watch Daily,"
in for Ashleigh Banfield. And this is "Crime and Justice," captured, tonight`s breaking news, more than 40 terrifying years in the making,
finally authorities early today arrested a California man they believe is the notorious Golden State Killer.
He allegedly leaves behind a trail of death and destruction. Investigators say he killed 12 people, raped over 50 women for about a decade, starting
in the mid-1970s. They say Joseph James DeAngelo was a young man when he began to rape and kill up and down the state of California. Now he is 72
years old, and finally behind bars. He was captured in the Sacramento area just weeks after HLN`s unmasking the killer profiled the Golden State
Killer. Authorities say DNA evidence, surveillance and determination led to DeAngelo`s capture.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Joseph James DeAngelo has been called a lot of things by law enforcement. He is been called the
East Side rapist. He is been called the Visalia Ransacker. The original night stalker. And the Golden State Killer. Today, it`s our pleasure to
call him defendant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Joining me tonight on this extraordinary day, CNN correspondent, Dan Simon, he is in Citrus Heights just outside of Joseph James DeAngelo`s
house, Orange County District Attorney, Tony Rackauckas, retired FBI special agent, Bobby Chacon and defense attorney, Troy Slaten.
All right. So what we want to go right is go to Dan Simon. Sorry about that, folks. Lost my turn (ph) about there for a second. Dan, you are, in
fact, outside of his house. Please tell us. My understanding as -- this was just a meticulous takedown, nothing went wrong, but it could have.
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, really unbelievable police work, Pat. Basically police were waiting this guy out for several days. When this all
came together within the past six days is what they said. And then they basically did a good old-fashioned stakeout. And when they were ready to
make the arrest, out comes DeAngelo, and boom, he is in custody.
Ultimately, Pat, what this all came down to, authorities repeatedly stressed, was the DNA. They got what they described as discarded DNA. How
that came to pass we don`t know, were they going through his garbage? Did they trail him at a restaurant? These are all, you know, questions that
you might find or have answered in a mystery novel, Pat. That is how this all came to pass. And ultimately he is in custody. And when he makes a
court appearance, probably will be the next 24, 48 hours, Pat.
LALAMA: I heard one of the chiefs say that, yes, remember, this guy was a cop. So they had to be very, very careful about how this transaction
occurred knowing that he knows police procedure. And someone made the comment about thinking perhaps he was thinking about making a run for it.
Did you hear that?
SIMON: Well, the way the authorities described it, they said that when he was taken down, there was something that he provided, some sort of
impression that he was trying to execute what may be described as a getaway. But obviously there was no way that was going to happen. He was
swarmed by police, quickly taken into custody. And they described it really as a perfect execution in terms of the U.S., Pat.
[18:05:00] LALAMA: And Dan, one of the things that everyone was waiting to hear, but it never came out, and I`m sure I understand why, is what led
them to look for this discarded DNA in the first place. Are we thinking maybe he committed a crime allegedly recently, or someone came to them?
What do we know about why they even started this?
SIMON: Great question there. We asked that repeatedly. And at this point police are not going there. They`re saying that they were working several
threads. So they said there wasn`t just one thing that ultimately led them to want to get the DNA. Pat, we`ll see what happens. But remember, back
in 2016, the D.A., along with the FBI, they held a news conference, basically about that they were not going to let this case die, that they
were persistently tries to catch the killer. The FBI at the time offered a $50,000 reward, Pat, and I asked whether somebody that has a legitimate
claim to that reward, and the answer was possibly.
LALAMA: Wow, absolutely incredible. Don`t go anywhere Dan, because a million more questions for you. Right now to Orange County district
attorney, Tony Rackauckas, great to see you, Tony. Listen, so they`ve announced four murders, two from Sacramento and two from Ventura. What can
you tell us about crimes committed in Orange County?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, we have four murders that were committed in Orange County, they are just terrible, brutal murders of people who were in their
homes. You know, the first one is the Harrington`s, when they were in their home, and this person invaded the home and took control of both the
husband and wife and raped the wife and then killed them both with -- this is brutally with a blunt instrument, and another similar case --
LALAMA: Sorry for interrupting, but I`m very curious, do you see any impending charges on cases connected to your county?
RACKAUCKAS: Yes, yes, absolutely, yes, we do. We have four -- like I was saying we have four murders in our county. And there are -- these are
brutal, terrible murders.
LALAMA: Are you going to file charges?
RACKAUCKAS: Yes, that is our intention is to file charges very soon.
LALAMA: And a lot of people, Tony, want to know who goes first? You`ve got rape cases that preceded the murders that we know of, and a lot of
different district attorney`s offices throughout the state, so, how do you determine who gets him first?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, we`re going to have a meeting and we`re going to discuss that. And, you know, there are a lot of things to consider. So we`re
going to decide exactly how that is done, whether to do it in one jurisdiction than another, or to get together in one jurisdiction and put a
team together and do that kind of a prosecution.
LALAMA: Is it fair to say that typically you go for the cases that are the strongest, or do you go chronologically?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, not necessarily chronologically. It just would things that would have to do with -- you know, with the evidence and what`s the
best venue overall considering all of the circumstances. So it would be hard at this point to say what all the considerations will be. But we`re
going to get together and we`re going to discuss that.
LALAMA: Bobby Chacon, former FBI, a lot of people are wondering about this discarded DNA. If I`m not mistaken, you have to be very careful about how
you extract someone`s DNA, because there are privacy issues. My guess is they followed him, coffee shop, McDonald`s, I don`t know where, and
extracted something that was not on his property?
BOBBY CHACON, FORMER FBI: Well, yes, that is going to be fascinating to find out, isn`t it, Pat? I mean, we don`t know yet and they wouldn`t
answer that question today. But it`s going to be fascinating. But before that we have to -- we`ll learn hopefully how they were put on him to begin
with. To get his discarded DNA, so why he became a suspect, why he became, you know, he came up on their radar at this point.
I mean, regardless of that, it`s a great day for the law enforcement team and the prosecutors who stayed on this case. Many of whom were retired and
spent much of their professional careers before they retired on this case. It`s great for the public that -- the podcasters and the HLN`s "Unmasking a
killer" and the media who kept this in the spotlight. It really is -- it really gives new hope to a lot of the cold cases out that there being
worked today.
LALAMA: Back to you, Tony, very quickly, why do you think this case -- I know, because I`ve worked so much with crime stories and law enforcement
people, that you don`t give up on anything. No one is less or more important than anyone else. But there is something about this case that
did strike a nerve with the general public and with a lot of media people and authors as we know, producers.
[18:10:00] Why? What was it about this case?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, look, this guy terrorized people all up and down the state, starting in Visalia, moving to Sacramento, and just terrible crimes,
invasion of homes, and just making people in the entire community feel unsafe. Move all the way down to state all the way down to Orange County,
and then suddenly it stopped in 1986. And so, it`s this huge bunch of terrible cases that had gone unsolved, not for any known reason, but just
because they stopped. And so it`s -- it`s -- you have this question, this open question, of, you know, and it`s a haunting question, who did this,
and might he strike again?
LALAMA: Right.
RACKAUCKAS: As long as the case isn`t solved he might strike again. He might just, you know, make that decision. So it was always a matter of
grave concern.
LALAMA: Absolutely. And back to you, Dan Simon, did law enforcement and district attorneys today speak to the last -- this black zone of the last
many decades when we haven`t had anything happen, is that they`re feeling that they just don`t know of any, but believe he continued, or for some
reason, you know, stopped getting his jollies off of terrorizing human beings, what do we know about that?
SIMON: That is a great question, Pat, at this point, authorities say they don`t know why there were seemingly no more crimes after that period of
time in the 80`s. I do want to show you, Pat, just kind of what this neighborhood looks like. This is Citrus Heights. I`m kind of wedged in
here between a couples of cars. You can get a sense as of what the house looks like behind me. This is what I would describe as sort of a regular
working class neighborhood outside of Sacramento.
You can see, there`s a boat there in the driveway, police have a couple of tents. They`re still processing the scene. I see a number of police cars
still here. So it`s clear, Pat, that the investigation is going to go on for some time. Obviously they`re still collecting evidence. But, of
course, the most crucial piece of evidence is, in fact, the DNA. But what else might the suspect DeAngelo have inside there that could potentially
tie him to all these crimes, Pat. That is really the open question.
LALAMA: Have you seen any friends, family members, anyone go in and out of the home, since you`ve been there?
SIMON: I have not. I`ve seen a couple of police officers go in and out. We are told that a couple of adult children may have been living inside the
home. And something else, Pat, that is really interesting, is I spoke to one of the early victims in terms of the crime spree. This is a woman who
was raped allegedly by DeAngelo back in the mid-1970s. Guess where she lived, Pat? Right here in Citrus Heights.
LALAMA: Unbelievable.
SIMON: So, here you have the suspect living in the same neighborhood. Was he living there at the time? We don`t know. But how interesting is it
that the suspect continued to live in the Sacramento community decades after these crimes occurred, just unbelievable.
LALAMA: It`s actually overwhelming. I mean, we`re supposed to stay objective. But I have to say it`s just, to me, just my hats off to no one
who even thought about giving up and to all the victims, what this day must mean to them. Straight ahead, more on the capture of Joseph James
DeAngelo, the man police say is the Golden State Killer.
And at 8:00 Eastern, "Unmasking a killer," HLN`s in-depth investigation into the decades long search for the Golden State Killer.
[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in the day in the 1970s, people in Sacramento felt safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a small town atmosphere, people were friendly. The kids could play outside. There was a sense of peace and safekeeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sacramento was a quiet town at the time, people didn`t lock their doors at night.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That time in the mid-70s, my parents would say, just make sure you`re home before dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I imagine a lot of woman in the area are scared and nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the East area rapist started hitting, that all changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: A stunning arrest here in California today, the so-called Golden State Killer is in custody. Officials say Joseph James DeAngelo killed a
dozen people, committed about 50 rapes, and let`s not forget the burglary spree, probably 120 or more. Until now he remains or remains in a -- he is
a free man living his life in California in the suburbs.
Tonight he is finally sitting in a jail cell. My panel still with me, CNN correspondent, Dan Simon, Orange County district attorney, Tony Rackauckas,
Kevin Tapia, a neighbor of the alleged Golden State Killer, forensic psychologist, Brian Russell, retired FBI special agent, Bobby Chacon, and
defense attorney, Troy Slaten.
Back to you, Tony, very quickly, you have four murders in Orange County, you plan to file charges in those cases. Now, he is in a jail cell. What
happens next? What`s -- arraignment? What do we do with this guy now?
[18:20:00] RACKAUCKAS: Well, he is going to -- he is here in Sacramento and he is in custody at this point. So -- and likely he is going to be
sent to Ventura. Files -- charges have been filed there, and he`ll be sent there to be arraigned on those charges. And of course, we`re going to file
charges in Orange County. And there might be other counties filing charges as well, because there were some murders in some different counties.
So the various D.A.`s, the respective D.A.`s are going to sit down and have a meeting and talk about, just how we`re going to do this, whether we`re
going to try it in one county after the other, or put them together in one county, and put together a trial team, probably with representatives from
the different counties. And try the case in one county. So there are a number of options, and a number of considerations.
LALAMA: Let me ask you this. So, one of the problems in all your years of familiarity and investigating this case, was his appearance. There wasn`t
really any definitive idea what this guy looked like. Correct? I mean, we knew he was blond and tall and Caucasian. But aside from that, it was
tough trying to figure out exactly what his appearance was.
RACKAUCKAS: That is correct. And there were -- as you know, a lot of descriptions. And the general description seemed to be, you know, pretty
consistent, you know, as far as, you know, size and build and that sort of thing. But there were, of course, were differences. And he just was not
able to be identified based on descriptions and sketches and the different kinds of things that were put together to try to figure out who this guy
was.
LALAMA: To me, it`s just amazing to be sitting here after covering crime for many, many years, and to watch the justice system in action and to
never give up that dogged determination that we`ve all been talking about today. And I just think it`s extraordinary. One of the people I do want
to talk to give us a little insight is, Kevin Tapia. I hope I`m pronouncing that correctly, Kevin. You are a neighbor of Mr. DeAngelo.
Tell me everything you can tell me about this man.
KEVIN TAPIA, NEIGHBOR OF ALLEGED GOLDEN STATE KILLER: Yes. So I`ve lived here since I was a little boy, since I was born. I still live here now.
So a lot of the memories I have of him or from when I was younger, around 12, 13 years old. One in particular is I was mowing the lawn and he for
some reason thought I threw something over the fence at him and started yelling at me, screaming at me, insisted on talking to my father. And they
went into an argument over that, because I hadn`t thrown anything, I was just doing yard work.
My sister had reminded me, I forgot because I was so young. But -- that when we used to play back there and we`d be by the fence, he would yell at
us because he thought we were peeking into his yard, for whatever reason, but we never thought anything of it.
LALAMA: Let me ask you one question before we go on, in all these years had you ever noticed any police at his home for any reason? And did he
have family? Tell me more about that.
TAPIA: No, I`ve never heard or seen any police at his residence. When he was -- when I was younger he had three daughters that he was raising pretty
much by himself. So he would just appeared as a single dad. And they had since moved out, but supposedly maybe one of them moved back in recently.
So for the most part, the last decade he is kind of been by himself from what I can tell.
LALAMA: You haven`t noticed a house maid, a partner, a spouse that you knew of?
TAPIA: No, never. I think his wife -- I think they got divorced when I was very young. And he is never had a house mate or that I`ve ever seen
since.
LALAMA: Can you stick around for a minute, Kevin? I`d like to come back to you. I want to go to Troy Slaten, defense attorney. So the question
is, let`s say this case fell in your lap. What is the first thing that you`re going to do?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m going to look at how they came upon my client, what was it that drew their attention to him? We`re also talking
about this discarded DNA. Where was it discarded? Where did they retrieve it? Did they break any of the rules in regards to obtaining that DNA? If
they trespassed onto his property and didn`t do it with a proper warrant based on probable cause, then following a motion to suppress evidence the
entire case for them could unravel.
LALAMA: Whoa. Tony Rackauckas, what do you say to that?
[18:25:00] RACKAUCKAS: Well, I understand where he is going. And I suppose if you`re the defense that is what you do. But this was very
carefully done. And his rights were all protected. And there was a lot of coordination here. And I represent to you that none of those rules that
counsel is talking about were violated. You know, I just want to say one thing, though, and that is that the great thing about today is that we`re
able to notify to tell the victims of these crimes, you know, that this case has been solved.
And it`s just -- I just can`t tell you how great that is, but, you know, it`s something that we live for. And, you know, when you look to all that
they`ve been through, they`ve been through so much. And I think maybe you heard Mr. Harrington today, he was just -- such a trooper, and same with
the others. These victims have been through a great deal, and a lot of agony. And it`s just so good to have those questions answered for them.
LALAMA: Right, right. Well, and speaking of that, perhaps we have some sound from one of the victims from earlier today. Or let`s go to some
sound in general from today, so we can get a sense of what was going on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNE MARIE SCHUBERT, SACRAMENTO DISTRICT ATTORNEY: For us here in Sacramento, it was a time of innocence in 1976. No one locked their doors.
Kids rode their bikes to school. Parents let their children play outside. The only thing we were told as a family was you just needed to be home
before dark. We did not have things like cell phones or social media. And then for all of us here in this community that lived in this community
during this time it all changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: So my question now is for -- let me go to our forensic psychologist, Brian Russell, Brian, what is the significance of this DNA
and where it`s going to take us and how it came about?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, we could do an entire hour-long special about just the psych angles in this. Starting with the
psychology of the cops, my dad was a cop, they are so -- the vast majority are so committed, so persistent to protecting and serving the public.
It`s such a testament to that what we`re seeing today, and never giving up. Taking advantage of the modernization of our technology to collect and
analyze DNA, we don`t know exactly where the sample came from, and who decided that it needed to be retested and compared to what evidence already
existed. But I can tell you for sure that the reason that happened is because they never gave up. The second --
LALAMA: Right.
RUSSELL: -- the fascinating angle is the psychology of criminals and killers. You can see from this, anybody who thinks that these people are
not in total control of what they`re doing, look at the planning, the preparation and practice that went into these crimes that kept this guy
from being identified, and allegedly for so many years, being able to go so many years without doing it, anybody who thinks this is some kind of
irresistible chronic illness that explains this, should have that belief completely put to rest by this case today.
And then the third angle is the victims. You can see how it is never too late to provide the closure, the sense of safety and security that the
person who did this to you or your loved one is finally off the streets, which is why the cops are so committed.
LALAMA: Just absolutely beautifully stated, and absolutely so, so poignant today. You know, I`m curious, Bobby Chacon, former FBI guy, is it possible
that law enforcement uses resources like ancestry.com, 23 and me, is there any way that that can play into solving some of today`s most horrific cases
and cases from the past?
CHACON: You know, it`s a remote possibility. It`s not likely because of the way the DNA is collected and analyzed in those services. I mean, there
are some random cases over the last couple years where that is happened, but generally those services -- resist law enforcement efforts to get them
and then the DNA is not of the quality that is needed for -- the thing, I mean, but remember, there`s been so much DNA evolution, the science of DNA
has evolved so much. It could be a familiar old DNA sample, for example he could have a male relative, a grandson or a son that was recently arrested,
and if that is in codus (ph), and they rerun his, they could get a -- almost a familiar match, and then they can follow the white chromosome and
then they can possibly get to this guy.
I mean, it`s going to be fascinating to know what happened six days ago, what happened six days ago that said this is our guy. That is where the
key is going to be. And then, they`ve been on him since then, surveilling him, and crossing their t`s, and dotting their i`s --
LALAMA: Right.
CHACON: -- to make sure none of those things that Troy mentioned, have been violated.
LALAMA: Right.
CHACON: So, you know, it is going to be fascinating on what happens six days ago, to say this is our guy, let us follow him, let us look at him,
let us get his DNA and make the perfect match.
PAT LALAMA, MANAGING EDITOR, CRIME WATCH DAILY: Well, you`re absolutely right. I`m going to get back to Troy on that in a moment. But I want to go
back to Kevin Tapia who is DeAngelo`s neighbor. So, you had told our producers early on or earlier today that something seemed off. Can you
expound on that?
KEVIN TAPIA, NEIGHBOR OF ALLEGED GOLDEN STATE KILLER: Yes. He just was never very personable. He would go into random outbursts in his yard when
he was by himself. He`d get frustrated working on something and he would just start cursing really loudly to the point where you can hear it from
many houses.
And then besides the interpersonal communication between neighbors when he would just have outbursts and yelling at them for -- yelled at my parents
for the water was dripping into his backyard and another neighbor for mowing the lawn too soon. He just seemed very irritable but never really
wanted to look you in the eye necessarily and talk.
LALAMA: Not necessarily the neighbor of the year. I want my panel to stick around because our breaking news of coverage of arrest of the arrest of the
alleged golden state killer continues in just a moment.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that the reason there hasn`t been something done about it is because it`s a crime against women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it was right after he raped me. He said, you looked really good at the O`Club last week.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back in the mid-70s, the rape laws were not very strict. You could rape a woman and get probation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back then it was more of a male-dominated society. Folks really tend to see if the woman was responsible for being raped. What
was her behavior like? What was her dress like?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe that rapes cannot continue the way they have. We don`t want to live in fear. We are going to take action ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): It became almost a women`s rights movement.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: Breaking developments now, more information emerging on the man arrested and believed to be the golden state killer. Joseph James DeAngelo
is accused of 12 murders, 50 rapes, about 120 robbery -- burglaries, I should say, over a 10-year span, and decades of detective work has finally
paid off.
Today, the DA said investigators were looking for a needle in a haystack but they always knew that needle was there. I couldn`t have put it better.
CNN correspondent Dan Simon is part of my panel, also Orange County district attorney Tony Rackauckas, Kevin Tapia, a neighbor of the alleged
golden state killer, forensic psychologist Brian Russell, retired FBI special agent Bobby Chacon, and defense attorney Troy Slaten.
I want to go back to Dan Simon very quickly, our correspondent at the scene, anything new since we last spoke to you out there?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, just a lot of gawkers, Pat, as you can imagine, a lot of curiosity in the neighborhood. I`ll jut have my
photographer Jeff pan off a bit. You can kind of see the news media that assembled here. You can see the crime scene tape behind the house, and sort
of neighbors -- sort of lingering and taking photographs.
But, Pat, you know, one of the main questions I have is -- and perhaps Tony has some information about this, is what conversations did DeAngelo have
with authorities once he was taken into custody? Did perhaps that they reveal that they had DNA evidence and were they able to maybe extract a
confession from him?
I`m sure they`re working very hard right now to try to get that confession. But, you know, if they have DNA evidence and can link him to a dozen
murders and at least 45 or so rapes, that would be pretty powerful. If you get him in a room, I just wonder if he would confess.
LALAMA: Well, I`m going to relay that question to Tony Rackauckas. But let me just tell you quickly, in a minute, we`re going to hear from Debbi
Domingo who is on the phone. She is a special guest today because she is the daughter of golden state killer murder victim, Cheri Domingo, and I
really can`t wait to hear from here.
But Tony Rackauckas, Orange County district attorney, what about Dan`s question? Are you able to tell us what his conversation or lack thereof may
have been with law enforcement once he was nabbed?
TONY RACKAUCKAS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, ORANGE COUNTY: Great question, Dan. I really appreciate that you would ask it, but I`m afraid I`m not really
quite able to describe it at this point.
LALAMA: I knew it. I knew it.
RACKAUCKAS: I`m sorry to say. But, you know, I don`t think it would be fair for me to try to characterize the conversation that he had one way or
another.
LALAMA: Listen, Tony, I mean, I`ve always told you, we go back a long time, that, you know, the criminal justice system and due process trumps TV
any day.
[18:40:06] But, you know, we`re going to try to get information out of you when we can that does not compromise the case. So having said that, is
there any way I can pry anything out of you about what led you to looking for his DNA? I know I`m going to get a no, but I`m trying.
RACKAUCKAS: You know, I think all we`re able to say about that right now at this time is that it was very good work. There was very, very good DNA
work done. The analysis was --
LALAMA: But what led the -- I`m sorry to interrupt, but we`re all chomping at the bit to know, how did this whole thing start? Why hasn`t he been
allegedly doing his thing for the last many years? What led you to going to look for this discarded DNA?
RACKAUCKAS: So --
LALAMA: I`m trying, Tony, I`m trying.
RACKAUCKAS: So, you know -- so, as you know, he hasn`t been -- he hasn`t been in custody anywhere. So his DNA is not on file in any of the official
databases. But there`s been a lot of work done on the DNA that is in the databases. And that led to -- pointed to him as a suspect. I think that`s
about all we`re able to do at this point.
LALAMA: OK.
RACKAUCKAS: Once he became a suspect, then, you know, there was a lot of work done in making sure that it was properly taken.
LALAMA: Thank you, Tony, stay right there. But let`s now with the limited time in this block, but I`ll get to you more later.
Debbie, so happy, so happy, Debbi Domingo, that you`re with us and what a great day for your family, if this is in fact the right guy and we are
keeping our fingers crossed that it is, your mother was a murder victim of the alleged rapist killer, Joseph Domingo (ph). What is going through your
mind today?
DEBBI DOMINGO, DAUGHTER OF MURDER VICTIM CHERI DOMINGO (via telephone): There are a million and one things going through my mind. It`s really quite
overwhelming, as I`m sure you can imagine. The biggest thing is that I`m just -- I`m very relieved. We`ve been on pins and needles and hopeful for
so long. And just to hear the words that he is in custody has just been like a wave of relief.
LALAMA: Debbi, let me ask you very quickly, I know they`re going to tell me to go to break real quick, so bear with me, everyone uses the term
"closure" and it gets overused, but there is, there is something that closes something that big gaping horrible, you know, wound when something
like this happens, correct?
DOMINGO (via telephone): Yes, absolutely. And, you know, there`s a lingering -- in my mind, I can imagine that all these years he has been
thinking to himself, I got away with it. And that has lingered. And for me, the closure is not so specifically for me personally as it is just an end
to the wondering for everybody involved and for him to finally know that he didn`t really get away with anything.
LALAMA: Right. If it`s, in fact, him, and our hearts are with you and your family and the other victims today, especially --
DOMINGO (via telephone): Thank you so much.
LALAMA: Don`t go anywhere now. Stay right there. More of our continuing coverage of the capture of the alleged golden state killer straight ahead.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a person who has a desire to hurt and to kill in a very violent, hands on way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Investigating an apparent homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Manuela Witthuhn was home alone on February 5th, 1981. She had also been bludgeoned. She had been sexually assaulted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In August of 1980, Keith and Patrice Harrington were bludgeoned to death by the golden state killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): She had been struck multiple times on her face and head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): He is picking on middle class people in their homes and he is getting away with it. It was horrible.
LARRY CROMPTON, RETIRED DETECTIVE: He`s doing what he wants to do. He`s killing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: To catch a serial killer, sometimes it`s just a matter of time. A long awaited arrest today as California authorities announce the capture of
a man they believe is the golden state killer, four decades after his long reign of terror.
My panelists still with me. And, you know, we`ve got Debbi Domingo. I feel so blessed to have you here. Thank you so much. I want to ask you a
question. I heard another victim.
Let`s just remind everyone, your murder is a murder victim, and I heard another victim today say that she, after the incident happened with her,
the rapist said oh, you sure looked good at the "O`Club" last week, which is a jargon for officer`s club. You get the sense that he knew her.
[18:50:01] Do you get the feeling in your mother`s case that there was any kind of connection that somehow she had crossed his path in her lifetime?
DOMINGO (via telephone): You know, honestly, I never have. I`ve never been able to come up with any even tenuous connections of anyone who would have
singled her out for any reason. It`s always been a mystery to me.
LALAMA: Well, hopefully some of that mystery is going to be unsolved for you. So now let`s get back to Troy Slaten, defense attorney. Someone was
talking earlier about, you know, he hasn`t been active that we know of for the last many years, and I think it was our forensic specialist who was
saying you can`t use the -- you know, I`m not -- I didn`t know what I was doing.
It seems that this is a calculated scenario. Would you even try for an insanity defense on something like this? Of course you have to establish
that. What would you do? What kind of a defense?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s possible you`d have to look at every possible defense. But one of the important things to think about is
some of these crimes date back, as you said, over four decades. And unlike a fine wine, evidence doesn`t get better with age.
As a defense attorney, sometimes we want the age cases just because things get lost, memories fade. In this case, we`re going to rely on DNA evidence
that is nearly 40 years old. Things degrade. And so that`s going to be a very fertile ground for his defense team to investigate if they`re trying
to link him with DNA evidence that is -- that`s quite old.
LALAMA: Well, Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, what do you say to that? It`s pretty sophisticated technology now, is it not?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. You know, he`s correct in that certainly biological evidence degrades over time. But what`s happening is,
as there`s sort of a decline curve there, we`re having a curve going the other direction when it comes to our ability now to collect samples,
smaller samples, to do more with less than we`ve ever been able to do before, and still get very, very highly accurate results.
And so I think you`re going to see more cases like this being solved by this improvement in our ability to get meaningful data from samples that we
used to not be able to. And this highlights another problem, and this is probably for another show, but there are literally tens of thousands, maybe
more, rape kits around this country waiting to be tested just because we don`t have the resources to test them all in a timely manner.
LALAMA: Right. Well, yeah, and there`s a great documentary airing right now on that very subject. Bobby Chacon, very quickly, former FBI, you know
what`s really interesting to me is this guy`s name has never come up in all this time, not in any other arrest, not even an accusation. How did he stay
incognito this way?
CHACON: I`m sure the investigators have been looking at that since six days ago when they actually got on him and said, OK, this is our guy.
They`re looking back. They will look back at all of the things and close calls or different things like that. He was very careful. Don`t get me
wrong. He was very careful in carrying out these crimes.
The one incident you said where he referred to seeing this victim on a previous occasion was probably one of his few mistakes. He was very careful
not to connect himself to the victims during the numerous times that the tortured people and stayed hours in that house.
This guy was a monster, but he was a careful monster. He knew how to do it back then. Unfortunately for us now we have now scientific methods that can
be applied and that`s how they caught him.
LALAMA: Thank you, Bobby. Our breaking news coverage continues in just a moment. Stay right there. At 8:00 Eastern, "Unmasking A Killer," HLN`s in-
depth investigation into the decade-long search for the golden state killer.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: The man police say is the golden gate killer is now sitting behind bars in California. Joseph James DeAngelo, arrested nearly 42 years after
he allegedly committed his very first crime. So we were wondering, how long did it take law enforcement to bring other serial killers to justice?
Ted Bundy was captured in 1975, one year after his first crime. John Wayne Gacy committed his first murder in 1968 and was arrested 10 years later. It
took officers 13 years to track down Jeffrey Dahmer after his first killing in 1978. And the BTK killer Dennis Rader`s first murder was in 1974, but he
wasn`t captured until 19991.
[18:59:58] But one thing we know is for sure, in the coming days, we`re going to be learning a whole lot more about this alleged serial killer,
this Joseph James DeAngelo. And what we learn might just shed a light on how he escaped the long arm of the law for so many years.
The next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t hear him come in. I didn`t hear anything, and all the sudden there was someone standing at my door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up with a hand over my mouth. And I rolled out of my bed. I just swung my arm and said what are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In June of 1976 a community was taken hostage. One of the most prolific serial killers in the history of this state, in not of
this nation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The subject has eluded investigators for over 40 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fifty-one rapes, 12 murders.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For over 40 years, countless victims have waited for justice. We found the needle in the hay stack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a perfectly executed arrest, my detectives arrested James Joseph Deangelo.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 51 ladies who were brutally raped sleep better tonight. He isn`t coming through the window. He`s now in jail and he`s
history.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: Good evening, everyone. I`m Pat Lalama from Crime Watch Daily, in for Ashleigh Banfield. And this is CRIME & JUSTICE.
Crime solving is not a career for anyone looking for instant gratification. Over 40 years after the golden state serial killer began raping and
murdering throughout California, an arrest today just outside Sacramento. Look at this guy, 72-year-old Joseph James Deangelo. He is the suspect and
authorities say he lived just miles from one of the crime scenes after allegedly getting away with murder for decades. Scientific evidence was
his undoing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNE MARIE SCHUBERT, SACRAMENTO DISTRICT ATTORNEY: The answer was, and always was going to be, in the DNA. We knew we could and should solve it
using the most innovative DNA technology available at this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: And joining me now tonight, CNN correspondent Dan Simon. He is in Citrus Heights, outside of Joseph James Deangelo`s home. Sacramento county
district attorney Ann Marie Schubert, the woman of the hour, forensic psychologist Ryan Russell, retired FBI special agent Bobby Chacon and
defense attorney Troy Slaten.
Let`s first go right to the Dan Simon who is in front of the alleged mass killer`s House.
What have you got, Dan?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Pat. We continue to see detectives go in and out of the house. And Pat, one thing that`s
interesting, in terms of what we have learned about this case, is that the suspect took what some have described as trophies from their victims,
things like jewelry or coins, personal momentous. So you have got detectives in there who are scouring the house. And it just makes you
wonder if, in fact, they have recovered some of that jewelry, some of those trophies that may, in fact, link him to the crimes.
Another thing, Pat, that I want to bring up is that the last time Deangelo worked in law enforcement was back in 1986. So the question is, what has
he been doing all this time to make money? What has he done for a living? We know he was a police officer for two law enforcement agencies. We are
talking about, what, 30 years? He obviously did something to earn a living. And at this point we don`t know what that was.
LALAMA: Well, I`ll tell you, that`s a great question. And you know, you also mentioned those tokens that he kept as souvenirs is just absolutely
disgusting. If, this is, in fact, the man.
And we are also honored to have Ann Marie Schubert, who is Sacramento county district attorney. I just want to ask you this, I bet you didn`t
get a wink of sleep last night.
SCHUBERT: I got a little bit, but not a lot.
LALAMA: Wow. I mean, what a day for justice if, in fact, this is the man. Bring us up to speed Ann Marie, I know there`s not a lot you can say. But
what do you want our viewers and the victims to know about apprehending this alleged monster?
SCHUBERT: I think it`s a day where people recognize that victims have not been forgotten and that through passion and as I see persistence and really
sheer determination you can solve this crime. And we knew that. We knew because we had the DNA. And we never forgot. And what`s what ultimately
brought this case to justice.
LALAMA: I was unable, failed miserably in trying to get Mr. Rackauckas to tell me why were you looking for this DNA? So I`m going to try with you.
Why were you looking for this DNA? And did you get it on or off his property? And I`m just waiting for the no. Go ahead. No, I can`t tell
you.
[19:05:10] SCHUBERT: You are just waiting for the no. What I said in the press conference previously was the same thing is that we used innovative
DNA technology to solve this crime.
LALAMA: Absolutely tremendous. And hats off to all the law enforcement people involved with this. And our hearts, of course, with the victims.
Bobby Chacon, former FBI, we never heard this guy`s name. And the other thing that Dan alluded to was the keeping of tokens. And I also understand
that he liked to terrorize his victims. That`s one thing we haven`t talked about much is, you know, his M.O. I know the breaking news is that he has
been arrested and he is the alleged killer. But you know, what is it about this guy who behaves this way and how did he elude prosecution and arrest
this long, if it is him?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: First of all, the thanks go out to the DA and her team and her extended team, and a great appreciation and
hopefully they will have time to reflect on such a great success.
But you know, we are going to find out why and how he eluded arrest. But I think that hearing from a neighbor earlier that this guy has lived in that
house since that neighbor was a child. So he hasn`t moved around a lot. So I think there`s a, you know, hopefully a good likelihood that some of
those trophies that you mentioned are still in that house. This is a house he has lived in more decades. So there`s a good chance hopefully that
there is some physical forensic evidence coming out of the searches that are currently going on in that house. Sometimes we get defendants like
this that have long crime sprees that move around a lot. And this guy seems to have stayed in the same place. So hopefully that will up the odds
of them finding some corroborating physical evidence in that house.
These guys keep those trophies so they can relive the crime, so they can relive the glory and the turn-ones that they got, the psychosexual nature
of those crimes so that, you know, they can relive them over and over again. So hopefully the searches will be fruitful and they will have even
more evidence coming out of those searches.
LALAMA: Ann Marie, are you able to shed any light, and this is Ann Marie Shubert from the Sacramento district attorney`s office, any light on what`s
been happening over the last few decades? Are you able to expound on whether you believe crimes were still being allegedly committed? Whether
he got allegedly tired of, you know, the criminal game? And what has he been doing for a living? How does he afford a house and a boat?
SCHUBERT: I think for the first question, the thing I would say is what was reported at the press conference by our sheriff was that we do know he
had an employment as a police officer in near Visalia. And he was also then moved and what became a police officer in an area appear called Auburn
Police department. She is nearby Sacramento.
So as for additional crimes, we may never know, you know, all the crimes that he may have committed. What we do know is the crimes that we have
talked about today, and the ones that are linked by DNA. So we know that. We know it spanned many, many years.
LALAMA: Yes, absolutely incredible. But perhaps I can ask Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, any idea of what makes someone who kills and rapes
for ten straight years decides, I`m tired of this. How does that happen?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, we are assuming that did happen. I can virtually guarantee you that there are crimes that we don`t
know about. I think it`s absolutely going to be the case. This guy, if he`s -- if we`re going to compare him to another serial killer, he sounds
to me to be the most like BTK, who also took, you know, trophies, so to speak, from his crime scene. So I think that those will be found --
LALAMA: Brian, what`s that about, taking the trophies? Does that give them some sort of thrill, a high, that they got somebody`s wedding ring, do
they want to look at it and go I want to remember the time I brutalized that person?
RUSSELL: Yes, that`s right. So when you are talking about a psychopath, you are talking about somebody who takes pleasure in the power they have to
inflict suffering upon another people. And these little trophies that they take are sort of mementos of that, as sick as that sounds.
But you know, I just did an -- and our president does it sometimes, I know what people mean when they say sick. But I tried, personally to avoid that
word because it creates an impression that maybe this is the product of just a mental illness.
But look how intentional, look how deliberate, look how planned and practiced, carefully carried out these activities are. And what you noted
is true. There are people who sort of burn out, just like there are alcoholics who burn out on drinking, and go off of it for a while, drug
addicts who burn out at some point on the -- they don`t get the thrill they once did and they go for long periods of time, maybe the rest of their life
without doing it.
One other thing I wanted to point out was, this guy worked in law enforcement a long time ago. If he worked in law enforcement more
recently, because people were asking me --
[19:10:03] LALAMA: He doesn`t know about DNA, yes.
RUSSELL: Well, yes. And what people were asking me is, I bet they had the DNA because when he served as a cop they would have had his DNA so that
they could rule him out when they were investigating crime scenes that the DNA that came from cops versus the DNA that came from the victims and
perpetrators. He was a law enforcement officer too long ago for that, if he had been more recently, yes, but he was back in the `80s too long ago.
LALAMA: Troy Slaten, defense attorney. So what are you going to do with this case, Troy, if it`s yours? Where do you begin? You talk to your
defendant and your next step is what?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, we want to see whether or not there`s any grounds to suppress evidence, to see if this discarded DNA was
collected lawfully and not in violation of his constitutional rights. We also want to see if this innovative DNA technique that the district
attorney was just talking about is something that is generally accepted in the scientific community. Does it meet what`s called the Kelly fry
standard? And other legal standards.
And we are also going to look at, obviously, his mental health issues, and whether or not there`s any type of mental disease or defect defenses. And
we are just going to have to take a look at all the evidence.
LALAMA: Ann Marie Shubert from Sacramento district attorney, you are the Sacramento district attorney, what`s next? A lot of people have been
asking me and texting me and tweeting me. So how do you determine, I asked Mr. Rackauckas like, you know, what -- there are so many cases, Mr.
Rackauckas says he has murder charges coming? Who goes first? Who gets this guy first?
SCHUBERT: I think it`s going to be a big decision by all the DAs that are involved in these jurisdictions on, you know, can we try them in the same
venue and what is the best venue for that? So that -- those decisions are going to be made in pretty short order, I`m sure.
LALAMA: But I think justice is going to be slow, but it has to be, I`m sure. You want to get everything right.
Dan Simon, back out to you. Do you see any evidence being collected, boxes being taken in and out potentially with wedding rings in them?
SIMON: Well, we did see detectives emerge with some bags. What is in those bags, we don`t know. I can tell you that they are going to be here
for quite some time. You can see, you know, the tents that have been, you know, placed out there. A number of detectives here on the scene,
obviously they are going to scour through everything. They may even dig up the suspect`s yard to see, perhaps, if they can find anything.
So don`t expect them to leave anytime soon, Pat. And, you know, this case obviously, the investigation is going to go on for quite some time.
LALAMA: Dan, you know, what`s your take on this? You and I have done this together a long times. We have covered lots of crime together. Any idea
how this guy was able to obscure himself for so long? And, number two, right in the middle of the area where he committed much of his ill deeds,
his bad deeds?
SIMON: Well, I think you really have to consider the fact that he is a former cop. So he knows all of the tricks of the trade as it were. So he
knows exactly what police are looking for, and the fact that this case went dormant for some 30 years, perhaps he thought that he may have been in the
clear, Pat. So those are the two things that I would consider.
LALAMA: Wow, it`s going to be incredible to watch the criminal justice system as it moves ahead.
And Ann Marie, our thanks to you and what a day is sort of what we all live for. And we appreciate your time.
Straight ahead, more on the capture of Joseph James Deangelo, the man police say is the golden state killer.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:18:42] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Back in the day in the 1970s, people in Sacramento felt safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a small town atmosphere. People were friendly, the kids could play outside. There was a sense of peace and
safekeeping.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sacramento was a quiet town at the time. People didn`t lock their doors at night.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That time in the mid-70s my parents would say just make sure you are home before dark.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I imagine a lot of women in the area are scared and nervous.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the east area rapist started hitting, that all changed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LALAMA: A stunning arrest here in California today, the so-called golden state killer is in custody. Officials say Joseph James Deangelo killed a
dozen people, committed about 50 rapes, let`s not forget the burglary spree, probably 120 or more. Until now he remains or remains -- he is a
free man living his life in California in the suburbs. Tonight he is finally sitting in a jail cell.
My panel still with me, CNN correspondent Dan Simon, Orange County district attorney Tony Rackauckas, Kevin Tapia, a neighbor of the alleged golden
state killer. Forensic psychologist Brian Russell, retired FBI special agent Bobby Chacon, and defense attorney Troy Slaten.
Back to you Tony, very quickly. You have four burglars at Orange County. You plan to file charges in those cases. Now he is in a jail cell, what
happens next? Arraignment? What do we do with this guy now?
[19:20:09] TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Well, he is here in Sacramento. And he`s in custody at this point. So -- and likely
he is going to be sent to Ventura. Charges have been filed there. And he will be sent there to be arraigned on those charges. And of course, we are
going to file charges in Orange County. And there might be other counties filing charges as well because there were some murders in some different
counties.
So the various DAs, the respective DAs are going to sit down and have a meeting and talk about just how we are going to do this, whether we are
going to try it in one county after the other, or put them together in one county and put together a trial team, probably with representatives from
the different counties and try the case in one county. So there are a number of options and a number of considerations.
LALAMA: Let me ask you this, so one of the problems in all your years of familiarity and investigating this case was his appearance. There wasn`t
really any definitive idea what this guy looked like, correct? I mean, we knew he was blond and tall and Caucasian. But aside from that it was tough
trying to figure out exactly what his appearance was.
RACKAUCKAS: That`s correct. And there were -- as you know, a lot of descriptions. And the general description seemed to be, you know, pretty
consistent, you know, as far as, you know, size and build and that sort of thing. But there were, of course, were differences. And he just was not
able to be identified based on descriptions and sketches and the different kinds of things that were put together to try to figure out who this guy
was.
To me, it`s just amazing to be sitting here after covering crime for many, many years. And to watch the justice system in action and to never give up
that dogged determination, that we have all been talking about today. And I just think it`s extraordinary. One of the people I do want to talk to to
give us a little insight is Kevin Tapia. And I hope that I`m pronouncing that correctly, Kevin. You are a neighbor of Mr. Deangelo. Tell me
everything you can tell me about this man.
KEVIN TAPIA, NEIGHBOR OF ALLEGED GOLDEN STATE KILLER: Yes, so I have lived here since I was a little boy, since I was born. I still live here now.
So a lot of memories I have of him are from when I was younger, around 12, 13 years old. One in particular is I was mowing the lawn and he for some
reason thought I threw something over the fence at him and started yelling at me and screaming at me, insisted on talking to my father. And then they
went into an argument over that because I hadn`t thrown him anything. I was just doing yard work.
My sister had reminded me, I forgot because I was so young, but that when we used to play back there and we would be by the fence, he would yell at
us because he thought we were peeking into his yard for whatever reason. But we never thought anything of it.
LALAMA: Let me ask you one question before you go on. In all these years had you ever noticed any police at his home for any reason? And did he
have family? Tell me more about that.
TAPIA: No, I have never heard or seen any police at his residence. When he was -- when I was younger he had three daughters that he was raising
pretty much by himself. So he just appeared as a single dad. And they had since moved out, but supposedly maybe one of them moved back in recently.
So for the most part the last decade he has kind of been by himself from what I can tell.
LALAMA: You haven`t noticed a house maid, a partner, a spouse that you knew of?
TAPIA: No, never. I think his wife -- I think they got divorced when I was very young, and he has never had a house mate or -- that I`ve ever seen
since.
LALAMA: Can you stick around for a minute, Kevin? I would like to come back to you.
I want to go to Troy Slaten, defense attorney. So the question is, let`s say this case fell in your lap, what is the first thing that you are going
to do?
SLATEN: I`m going to look at how they came upon my client. What was it that drew their attention to him? We are also talking about this discarded
DNA. Where was it discarded? Where did they retrieve it? Did they break any of the rules in regards to obtaining that DNA? If they trespassed onto
his property, and didn`t do it with a proper warrant based on probable cause, then following a motion to suppress evidence, the entire case for
them could unravel.
[19:25:04] LALAMA: Whoa, Tony Rackauckas, what do you say to that?
RACKAUCKAS: Well, I understand where he is going. And I suppose if you are the defense, that`s what you do. But this was very carefully done.
And his rights were all protected. And there was a lot of coordination here. And I represent to you that none of those rules that counsel is
talking about were violated.
I just want to say one thing, though, and that is that the great thing about -- about today is that we were able to notify, to tell the victims of
these crimes, you know, that this case has been solved. And it`s just -- I just can`t tell you how great that is, you know, it`s something that we
live for. And, you know, when you look to all that they have been through, it is they have been through so much. And I think maybe you heard Mr.
Harrington today. He was just he was such a trooper. And same with the others. These victims have been through a great deal and a lot of agony.
And it`s just so good to have those questions answered for them.
LALAMA: Right, right. Well, and speaking of that, perhaps we have some sound from one of the victims from earlier today, or let`s go to some sound
in general from today so we can get a sense of what was going on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHUBERT: For us here in Sacramento it was a time of innocence in 1976. No one locked their doors. Kids rode their bikes to school. Parents let
their children play outside. The only thing we were told as a family was you just needed to be home before dark. We did not have things like cell
phones or social media. And then for all of us here in this community that lived in this community during this time it all changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: So my question now is for -- let me go to our forensic psychologist Brian Russell.
Brian, what is the significance of this DNA and where it`s going to take us and how it came about?
RUSSELL: You know, we could do an entire hour long special about just the psych angles in this, starting with the psychologist of the cops. My dad
was a cop. They are so committed, the vast majority are so committed, so persistent to protecting and serving the public. It`s such a testament of
that what we are seeing today. And never giving up, taking advantage of the modernization of our technology to collect and analyze DNA. We don`t
know exactly where the sample came from and who decided that it need to be retested and compared to what evidence already existed. But I can tell you
for sure that the reason that happened is because they never gave up. The second --
LALAMA: Right.
RUSSELL: Fascinating angle is the psychology of criminals and killers. You can see from this anybody who thinks that these people are not in total
control of what they are doing. Look at the planning, the preparation and practice that went into these crimes that kept this guy from being
identified, allegedly, for so many years, being able to go so many years without doing it. Anybody who thinks this is some kind of irresistible
chronic illness that explains this should have that belief completely put to rest by this case today.
And then the third angle is the victims. You can see how it is never too late to provide the closure, the sense of safety and security that the
person who did this to you or your loved one is finally off the street. Which is why the cops are so committed.
LALAMA: Just absolutely beautifully stated, and absolutely so, so poignant today.
You know, I`m curious, Bobby Chacon, former FBI guy, is it possible that law enforcement uses resources like ancestry.com, 23 and me? Is there any
way that that can play into solving some of today`s most horrific cases and cases from the past?
CHACON: You know, it`s a remote possibility. It`s not likely because of the way the DNA is collected, and analyzed in those services. I mean,
there are some random cases over the last couple years where that has happened. But generally, those services resist law enforcement`s efforts
to get them. And then the DNA is not of the quality that is needed for the testing, I mean.
But remember, there`s been so much DNA evolution, the science has evolved so much, it could be a familial DNA sample. For example, he could have a
male relative, a grandson or son that was recently arrested. And if that is in codes (ph) and re-run his, they can get an almost a familial match
and then they can follow the white chromosome and then they can possibly get to this guy.
I mean, it`s going to be fascinating to know what happened six days ago, what happened six days ago that side this is our guy. That`s where the key
is going to be and then they have been on him since then surveilling him and crossing their Ts and dotting there is to make sure none of those
things that Troy mentioned have been violated.
LALAMA: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, you know, it`s going to be fascinating to know what happened six days ago to say this is our guy, let`s follow him let`s look
at him, let`s get his DNA, and make the perfect match.
LALAMA: Well, you`re absolutely right. I`m going to get back to Troy on that in a moment. But I want to go back to Kevin Tapia who is DeAngelo`s
neighbor. So, you had told our producers early on or earlier today that something seemed off. Can you expound on that?
KEVIN TAPIA, NEIGHBOR OF ALLEGED GOLDEN STATE KILLER: Yes, he just was never very personable. But he would go into random outbursts in his -- in
his yard when he was by himself. He`d get frustrated working on something and he would just start cursing really loudly to the point where you can
hear it, you know, from many houses. And then, besides the interpersonal communication between neighbors when he would just have outbursts and
yelling at them for -- you know, he yelled at my parents for the water was dripping into his backyard, and another neighbor for mowing the lawn too
soon. He just seemed very irritable. But never really wanted to look in the eye necessarily and talk.
LALAMA: Not necessarily the neighbor of the year. I want my panel to stick around because our breaking news of coverage of arrest -- of the
arrest of the alleged Golden State Killer continues in just a moment.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that the reason there hasn`t been something done about it it`s because it`s a crime against women.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think it was right after he raped me, he said you looked really good at the O Club last week.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back in the mid-70s, the rape laws were not very strict. You could rape a woman and get probation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back then, it was more of a male-dominated society. Folks really tend to see if the woman was responsible for being raped.
What was her behavior like or what was her dress like?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We believe that rapes cannot continue to the way they have. We don`t want to live in fear. We`ll -- we are going to take action
ourselves.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It became almost a women`s rights movement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Breaking developments now, more information emerging on the man arrested and believed to be the Golden State Killer. Joseph James DeAngelo
is accused of 12 murders, 50 rapes, about 120 robbery -- burglaries, I should say, over a 10-year span, and decades of detective work has finally
paid off. Today, the D.A. said investigators were looking for a needle in a haystack but they always knew that needle was there. I couldn`t have put
it better.
CNN Correspondent Dan Simon is a part of my panel, also Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas, Kevin Tapia, a neighbor of the alleged
Golden State Killer, Forensic Psychologist Brian Russell, retired FBI Special Agent Bobby Chacon, and Defense Attorney Troy Slaten. I want to go
back to Dan Simon very quickly, our correspondent at the scene. Anything new since we last spoke to you out there?
DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, just a lot of gawkers, Pat. As you can imagine, a lot of curiosity in the neighborhood. I`ll just have my
photographer Jeff pan off a little bit. You can kind of see the news media that`s assembled here. You can see, you know, the crime scene tape behind
the house, and just sort of the neighbors sort of lingerated (ph) and taking photographs. But, Pat, you know, one of the main questions I have
is -- and perhaps Tony has some information about this, is what conversations did DeAngelo have with authorities once he was taken into
custody? Did, perhaps -- did they reveal that they had DNA evidence and were they able to maybe extract a confession from him? I`m sure they`re
working very hard right now to try to get that confession. But, you know, if they have DNA evidence, and can link him to a dozen murders and at least
45 or so rapes, that would be pretty powerful. And if you guys get him in a room, I just wonder if he would confess.
LALAMA: Well, I`m going to relay that question to Tony Rackauckas. But let me just tell you quickly, in a minute, we`re going to hear from Debbi
Domingo who`s on the phone, and she`s a special guest today because she`s the daughter of Golden State Killer murder victim, Cheri Domingo, and I
really can`t wait to hear from her. But Tony Rackauckas, Orange County District Attorney, what about Dan`s question? Are you able to tell us what
his conversation or lack thereof may have been with law enforcement once he was nabbed?
TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: It`s a great question, Dan. I really -- I really appreciate that you would ask it, but I`m afraid
I`m not really quite able to describe it at this point.
LALAMA: I knew it. I knew it.
RACKAUCKAS: I`m sorry to say. But, you know, I don`t think it would be fair for me to try to characterize the conversation that he had one way or
another.
LALAMA: Listen, Tony, I mean, I`ve always told you, we go back a long time, that, you know, the criminal justice system and due process Trumps
T.V. any day, but, you know, we`re going to try to get information out of you when we can that does not compromise the case. So, having said that,
is there any way I can pry anything out of you about what led you to looking for his DNA? I know I`m going to get a no, but I`m trying.
[19:40:19] RACKAUCKAS: You know, I think all we`re able to say about that right now, at this time, is that it was -- it was very good work. There
was very, very good DNA work done. The analysis was --
LALAMA: But what led -- what led the -- I`m sorry to interrupt but we`re all chomping at the bit to know, how did this whole thing start? You know,
why hasn`t he been allegedly doing his thing for the last many years? What led you to going to look for this discarded DNA?
RACKAUCKAS: So --
LALAMA: I`m trying, Tony, I`m trying.
RACKAUCKAS: You know, so, as you know, he hasn`t been -- he hasn`t been in custody anywhere. So, his DNA is not on file in any of the -- in any of
the official databases and -- but there`s been a lot of work done on the DNA that is in the databases. And that led to pointed him as a -- as a
suspect. And I think that`s about all we`re able to do at this point.
LALAMA: OK. OK.
RACKAUCKAS: Once he became a suspect, then, you know, then, there was a -- there was a lot of work done --
LALAMA: OK.
RACKAUCKAS: -- in making sure that it was properly taken.
LALAMA: Thank you, Tony. Stay right there. But let`s now -- with the limited time in this block, but I`ll get to you more later. Debbi, so
happy, so happy, Debbi Domingo that you`re with us. And what a great day for your family if this is in fact the right guy, and we`re keeping our
fingers crossed that it is, your mother was a murder victim of the alleged rapist killer, Joseph Domingo. What is going through your mind today?
DEBBI DOMINGO, DAUGHTER OF MURDER VICTIM CHERI DOMINGO (via telephone): There are a million and one things going through my mind. And it`s really
quite overwhelming, as I`m sure you can imagine. The biggest thing is that I`m just -- I`m very relieved. We`ve been on pins and needles and hopeful
for so long. And just to hear the words that he is in custody has just been like a wave of relief.
LALAMA: Debbi, let me ask you very quickly, and I know they`re going to tell me to go to break real quick, so, bear with me. You know, everyone --
everybody uses the term closure and it gets overused, but there is. There is something that closes something that big gaping horrible, you know,
wound when something like this happens, correct?
DOMINGO: Yes, absolutely. And, you know, there`s a -- there`s a lingering -- in my mind, I can imagine that all these years he has been thinking to
himself, I got away with it. And that has lingered. And for me, the closure is not so specifically for me, personally, as it is just an end to
the wondering for everybody involved, and for him to finally know that he didn`t really get away with anything.
LALAMA: Right. If it`s, in fact, him, and our hearts are with you and your family and the other victims today, especially --
DOMINGO: Thank you so much.
LALAMA: But don`t go anywhere now. Stay right there. More of our continuing coverage of the capture of the alleged Golden State Killer
straight ahead.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a person who has a desire to hurt and to kill in a very violent, hands-on way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigating an apparent homicide.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) was home alone on February 5th, 1981, she had also been bludgeoned, she had been sexually assaulted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In August of 1980, Keith and Patrice Harrington were bludgeoned to death by the Golden State Killer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had been struck multiple times on her face and head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s picking on middle class people in their homes and he`s getting away with it. It was horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s doing what he wants to do. He`s killing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: To catch a serial killer is sometimes just a matter of time. A long awaited arrest today as California authorities announce the capture of
a man they believe is the Golden State Killer. Four decades after his long reign of terror. My panelists still with me. And, you know, we`ve got
Debbi Domingo, and I`m just so -- I feel so blessed to have you here. Thank you so much. I want to ask you a question. I heard another victim -
- look, just to remind everyone, your mother is a murder victim, and I heard another victim today say that she, after the incident happened with
her, the rapist said, oh, you sure looked good at the O Club last week, which is a jargon for Officers Club. You get the sense that he knew her.
Do you get the feeling in your mother`s case that there was any kind of connection that somehow she had crossed his path in her lifetime?
[19:50:04] DOMINGO: You know, honestly, I never have. I`ve never been able to come up with any even tenuous connections of anyone who would have
singled her out for any reason. It`s always been a mystery to me.
LALAMA: Hopefully, some of to that mystery is going to be unsolved for you. So, now, let`s get back to Troy Slaten, Defense Attorney. Someone
was talking earlier about, you know, he hasn`t been active that we know of for the last many years. And I think it was our forensic specialist who
was saying, you know, you can`t use it. You know, and that`s I didn`t know what I was doing. It seems that this is a calculated scenario. Would you
even try for an insanity defense on something like this? Of course, you have to establish that, but what would you do? What kind of a defense?
TROY SLATEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s possible you`d have to look at every possible defense. But one of the important things to think about is
the -- some of these crimes date back, as you said, over four decades and unlike a fine wine, evidence doesn`t get better with age. As a defense
attorney, sometimes we want to age cases just because things get lost and memories fade. In this case, we`re going to rely on DNA evidence that is
nearly 40 years old. Things degrade and so that`s going to be a very fertile ground for his defense team to investigate if they`re trying to
link him with a DNA evidence that is -- that`s quite old.
LALAMA: Well, Brian Russell, forensic psychologist, what do you -- what do you say to that? It`s pretty sophisticated technology now, is it not?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. You know, he`s correct in that certainly biological evidence degrades over time. But what`s happening is
as there`s a sort of a decline curve there, we`re having a curve going the other direction when it comes to our ability now to collect samples,
smaller samples, to do more with less than we`ve ever been able to do before and still get very, very highly accurate results. And so, I think
you`re going to see more cases like this being solved by this improvement and our ability to get meaningful data from samples that we -- that we used
to not be able to, and this highlights another problem, and then, this is probably for another show. But there are literally tens of thousands,
maybe more rape kits around this country waiting to be tested --
LALAMA: Right.
RUSSELL: -- just because we don`t have the resources to test them all in a timely manner.
LALAMA: Right. Well, yes, and there`s a great documentary airing right now on that very subject. Bobby Chacon, very quickly, former FBI, you know
what`s really interesting to me is this guy`s name has never come up in all these time. Not any other arrests, not even an accusation. How did he
stay incognito this way?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Yes, I`m sure the investigators have been looking at that since last -- since six days ago when they
actually got on him and said, OK, this is our guy. And they`re looking back, they will look back at all of the things in close calls or different
things like that. He was very careful, don`t get me wrong. He was very careful when he was carrying out these crimes. The one incident you said
where he referred to seeing this victim on a previous occasion was probably one of his few mistakes. He was very careful not to connect himself to the
victims during the numerous times that he tortured people --
LALAMA: Right.
CHACON: -- and stayed hours in that house. This guy was a monster, but he was a careful monster and he knew how to do it back then. Unfortunately --
and fortunately for us, now, we have now scientific methods that can be applied and that`s how they caught him.
LALAMA: OK. Thank you, Bobby. Our breaking news coverage continues in just a moment. Stay right there. And at 8:00 Eastern, "UNMASKING A
KILLER," HLN`s in depth investigation into the decade`s long search for the Golden State Killer.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LALAMA: The man police say is the Golden State Killer is now sitting behind bars in California. Joseph James DeAngelo arrested nearly 42 years
after he allegedly committed his first crime. So, we were wondering, how long did it take law enforcement to bring other serial killers to justice?
Ted Bundy was captured in 1975, one year after his first crime. John Wayne Gacy committed his first murder in 1968 and was arrested 10 years later.
It took officers 13 years to track down Jeffrey Dahmer after his first killing in 1978. And the BTK Killer, Dennis Rader`s first murder was in
1974 but he wasn`t captured until 2005. But one thing we know is for sure, in the coming days, we`re going to be learning a whole lot more about this
alleged serial killer, this Joseph James DeAngelo. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night at 6:00 Eastern. Thanks for watching. "UNMASKING A
KILLER," HLN`s in depth investigation into the search for the Golden State Killer begins right now.
END
