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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
CNN Discovers Child Labor In Cobalt Mines; Paris May Day Protests Turn Violent; CNN Uncovers Alleged Sexual Assaults By Uber Drivers; A Look Inside Saint George's Chapel; Sainsbury's CEO Apologizes After Musical Mishap; Aired 3-4p ET
Aired May 1, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani. Tonight, Israel doubles down on its claim that
Iran is lying about its nuclear weapons program, but the nuclear watchdog itself doesn't says it doesn't see it.
Also, ahead --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know that every task, every endeavor that each of you undertakes is a critical part of achieving that ultimate objective which is
to deliver President Trump and America's foreign policy around the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That's a new face internationally, and the new U.S. secretary of state is showing up to work with a message. He says the department needs
to get its swagger back.
And the dirty side of clean energy, child labor is powering some of our everyday products. A CNN exclusive from the cobalt mines in the Democratic
Republic of Congo.
Well, it was a dramatic presentation that further ramped up tensions between Israel and Iran. It was made for television and it was in English.
Benjamin Netanyahu accused Tehran of brazenly lying over its nuclear ambition.
But now, he is facing accusations that it revealed little that the international community didn't already know. The IAEA, the United Nations
nuclear watchdog, reiterated its position on the 2015 agreement. It said there are, quote, "no credible indications of activities in Iran relevant
to the development of a nuclear explosive device after 2009."
Iran's deputy foreign minister accused Mr. Netanyahu of playing a childish and naive game, calling his presentation a show. The prime minister is
doubling down on his claims. Earlier, he came on this network offering a robust response to that very criticism. Benjamin Netanyahu spoke to my
colleague, Chris Cuomo.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: The deal that everybody is talking about was premised on the fact that Iran had no such material. But
Iran bothered, took enormous pains after the nuclear deal and before but especially after to hide this information. It's like an arsenal of
It's not just in the minds of people who they have. It's the actual calculations that they have done, the blueprints, measurements. They kept
it hidden because they don't want the world to know what I showed yesterday.
That they actually have this capability, a pretty advanced capability to manufacture nuclear weapons. The whole premise that this deal somehow
guarantees a safer, more modern Iran, is wrong. This deal pains Iran's path to a nuclear arsenal.
If you got rid of it, the first thing that would happen is you would crash Iran's money machine in which its pursuing its means of a conquest and in
part. They are funding it with billions, tens of billions of dollars, their aggression throughout the region. This deal facilitates it. If you
take away the deal, they are going to in a huge economic problem.
The second thing, I think you have to insist that you actually dismantle the components that allow Iran to produce an arsenal of nuclear weapons, if
you don't, and you do nothing, then I predict that what you will do is head right into a wall.
You'd head into a terrible conflict and perhaps a terrible war in which Iran would armed with nuclear weapons. That's bad. If you want peace --
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it sounds like you are suggesting that that's the only course anyway. The way you outline the threat and the
intentions of Iran, it seems as though you are indicating that you are on the precipice of war with this nation.
Because that's the only way that you would be able to guarantee that you smash all of their capabilities and stop all of their evil outreach in the
surrounding region as you describe it. Is that what you mean? Are you prepared to go to war against Iran?
NETANYAHU: Well, nobody is seeking that kind of development. Iran is the one that's changing the rules in the region. Iran is the one that is
practicing aggression against every country in the Middle East.
GORANI: Well, here is why all this matters right now, and perhaps some are saying this entire presentation was directed at one person, the American
president, Donald Trump. Because at some stage in the next 11 days, President Trump will decide whether or not to walk away from this Iran
And by the way, European allies of America say it's precisely because Iran may have been pursuing a weapons program as Israel has said that this deal
in necessary and that it has worked.
Let's go live to Jerusalem. Oren Liebermann is there with more. So, Iran and high-level officials are saying this was all a show. Europeans and
allies of the U.S. are saying, we have known this before so are international organizations. Precisely what does Israel want at this
[15:05:05] OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It may be exactly what you just said there, that the entire audience or intended audience for this
entire speech, this presentation which was very theatrical was President Donald Trump.
Because Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu knows if he's goal is to take down the deal, he only needs to convince Trump to pull out of the deal.
That one brick will collapse rest of the deal, regardless of whether or not the Europeans, the Russians, and the Chinese, stand by the deal.
And so far, that's exactly what we are seeing as you pointed out. They stand by the deal. They say it has worked so far and will continue to
work. So --
GORANI: But why do they want to pull out of deal? If they pull out of the deal, Iran could very well restart a nuclear weapons program, which every
international organization that deals with monitoring this activity says they are not doing right now. So, what do they want instead?
LIEBERMANN: Netanyahu clarified this point in his interview with our colleague, CNN's Chris Cuomo where he said if you cancel the deal and put
sanctions back in place, you take out the money and sanctions relief that Iran has gotten.
Netanyahu's argument is that it therefore makes it harder for Iran to, for example, fund Iranian proxy Hezbollah in Lebanon, fund Hothi rebels in
Yemen. Even if you are absolutely right, you no longer have any inspection mechanism on whatever Iran's nuclear program is doing.
You no longer have the ability to impose sanctions under the JCPOA, the Iran nuclear deal. He thinks it's still better to put sanctions back in
place, and sort of cripple Iran's economy.
GORANI: All right. Thanks very much, Oren Liebermann in Jerusalem coming to us live.
Well, let's bring in Carl Bildt, a former prime minister of Sweden, and he joins me from New York with more. You say Benjamin Netanyahu has no
CARL BILDT, FORMER SWEDISH PRIME MINISTER: He has no smoking gun whatever. As a matter of fact, his presentation yesterday confirmed that Iran closed
down the active nuclear weapons program in 2003. They had remaining technology activities that were going on since then.
But de facto, they closed down the program in 2003. We need the restrictions on them anyhow and they have agreed to the most inclusive
inspection received of any country in the world. That inspection regime works. So, I think --
GORANI: The point of people who oppose the deal say they are sunset clauses. In other words that they just have to abide by the terms for a
few years and after that, they've kept all their research. They've gotten all the money from the lifting of the sanctions. They will get right back
on track. Is that not something that concerns you?
BILDT: No. Because, I mean, they have signed up to the treaty. They have signed up to the so-called additional protocol of the IAEA. These things
will apply forever. There were some very intrusive regimes (inaudible) something like that.
But the commitment in the agreement is forever for Iran. That is very much in interest of Europe and the world to preserve that and not unraveled it
as Prime Netanyahu wants.
GORANI: Do you think Donald Trump is going to walk away from the deal?
BILDT: I fear so, but we will see. We have had both French President Macron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel there trying to convince him and
practically the entire rest of the world wants to preserve this agreement, because it is a contribution to stability and peace. We don't want more
confrontation -- further wars in the Middle East. But he has a rhetoric from his campaign.
GORANI: So, I know you are a supporter of the deal. What is your biggest concern if the deal collapses and the U.S. walks away?
BILDT: That we go into vicious circle of confrontation in the region. I think it will play into the hands of the hardliners in Tehran. They will
say we can't trust Americans. We are heading for confrontation. They will take measures accordingly.
We've heard the prime minister of Israel with a fairly war-like rhetoric. They are taking active actions as well. We don't know what the American
policy will be. We head for more confrontation and possible further wars. That should be avoided.
GORANI: You mentioned Emmanuel Macron, he was in Washington. He got the big state dinner and there was kind of a bit of a bromance going on between
two. You saw the images, hugs and kisses. He proposed a supplemental component to the existing deal.
I imagine this was his strategy to try to get Donald Trump to stay in the deal by getting a few more elements, compromises to the deal that he feels
would make it more palatable. What are the chances that will happen?
BILDT: Well, I think if we preserve the nuclear deal with Iran, we are in speaking terms with Tehran. We have quite a number of issues that we need
to discuss with Iran. I mean, the situation in Syria, Yemen, something else. We have all of the interest to engage, be that human rights issue,
proliferation issues. That is essentially the European strategy.
[15:10:09] Keep the dialogue going with Iran to address all of the other issues that we need to address with Iranians, Israelis, Syrians, Saudis in
GORANI: The Europeans are also doing quite a bit of business with Iran. The minute that deal was signed, you had French carmakers, European
countries all going in there. There's a market there for them.
BILDT: Well, it's a market but it's not working very well because here the Iranians have a point. The Americans have been trying to block the
development of economic contacts with Iran, which is regrettable. We have an interest in contributing to the stabilization or normalization and
reform of the Iranian economy and society and opening up to the world.
And the European knows economic context is a contribution to this. This is as a matter of fact something that also the United States have committed
itself too in the nuclear deal.
GORANI: Yes. Many people in Europe agree with you, certainly top officials. But if you look at how Iran is utilizing its power, its
influence and money in the region, it's obviously supporting the regime of Bashar al-Assad and Hezbollah, and waging a proxy war in Syria that is
extremely, extremely destructive. So, what is --
GORANI: It is -- that's what is doing. So, what is the influence of Europe here when it comes to that, when it comes to trying to change some
of that behavior?
BILDT: All of those particular activities that you mentioned have been going on for quite some time, prior to the Iran nuclear deal. I mean, the
Syrian conflict started in 2011. The situation in Lebanon has been there a very long time.
So, all of these regional issues, they are not Iranian position on them. They are not consequence of the Iran nuclear deal. But we have an interest
in engaging with Iran on constructive diplomacy to address these particular issues as we have an interest in engaging with the Saudis and Yemen, for
example, Russians on Syria.
They are not a product of the nuclear deal, but the nuclear deal makes it possible for us to talk to Tehran about these issues as well.
GORANI: Carl Bildt, thank so much you for joining us. Always appreciate your perspective.
Well, speaking of America's influence in the world, America has a new secretary of state, a top diplomat. He is just back from the Middle East.
He is promising to restore the State Department's, quote, "swagger." Mike Pompeo spoke to his new staff for the very first time today in Washington.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE POMPEO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: My remarks today will be relatively brief. Tomorrow, the president will be here to do my official swearing in.
I think much of the cabinet will be here as well. It's an important day for the president's first trip to this important place.
And I'm looking forward to being there with many of you and having the honor to have the president of the United States to do my formal swearing
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, so, the department may be getting a morale boost after Pompeo's predecessor, Rex Tillerson, cut its budget and left key jobs
Let's get more on this new potentially swaggering era. CNN's Michelle Kosinski is at the State Department. So, he got a pretty warm welcome, it
seemed. What are staff saying about this new arrival?
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I mean, the situation is so complex here going in. So, Pompeo shows up. He is humble. He is
friendly. He is making jokes. He says it's humbling for me to be here. The U.S. can't achieve its objectives without you. We need you here. I
have a lot to learn from you.
I'm going to visit every part of this building. He is saying all the right things. Of course, who wouldn't come and say all the right things? I
mean, Rex Tillerson came and had a warm welcome and said mostly all of the right things.
Then things started changing. So, I would say from the perspective of this building, there are many people here who are breathing a sigh of relief.
There is somebody here who is doing and saying the right things, even behind the scenes.
Talking about giving the State Department swagger, talking about how much the foreign service and other areas of the State Department are absolutely
necessary to achieve the U.S.' goals. Let's go out there and execute missions, he said.
So, they feel like he is going to be this forward leaning front and center secretary of state that is going to add a lot of energy to the job and make
sure that the State Department is functioning well.
He also though inherits a place with a lot of holes. There are people who are worried. He is a political appointee with no foreign policy
experience. They wonder how much he is going to be a yes man for President Trump.
And also, there are statements -- serious statements he's made in the past about gay people and Muslims that he will not disavow.
[15:15:06] GORANI: That's what I was going to bring up. Some Muslims are complicit in terror. He called homosexuality a perversion at a rally in
2015. This is a diplomat who has come back from Muslim countries in the Middle East. How is that going to work? He's offended a lot of people.
KOSINSKI: I mean, that's exactly the question that so many people here have. So, I don't want to say that the State Department is split 50/50 on
this. We haven't done this scientific poll of how people feel. Just from talking to people day after day for months leading up to this, and during
the period of time that Tillerson was here, people are very split in their thinking.
They are like, OK, we have a secretary of state who wants to be there, who will welcome in the press, who is going to have more access, and we are
going to have more access to him. But there are people who tell me, you know, the fact that he has said these things about gay people and asked
point-blank repeatedly during his confirmation hearing, do you feel that being gay is a perversion and he would not back away from that statement.
They feel like he is unqualified to be secretary of state for that reason. So, behind the scenes, he is at least giving people more access to speaking
to him. Again, doing and saying the right things thus far -- Hala.
GORANI: All right, Michelle Kosinski at the State Department, thanks very much.
Still to come, the gift of silence. South Korea is removing a major source of irritation for its northern neighbors. We'll tell you what that is
And then new insight into the secretive investigation of Special Counsel Robert Mueller. We'll see what he wants to ask Donald Trump, ever given
GORANI: It may not seem like keeping quiet could further the cause of peace talks. In this case, it very well might. South Korea is dismantling
a bank of loudspeakers along its border with North Korea. They have been used, there they are, they are being carried away. They have been used for
years to blast propaganda and pop music into North Korea. The sound can be heard for kilometers.
Pyongyang does the same thing with its own set of speakers. Both sides agreed to end their audio wars during last Friday's historic summit.
Everybody can get some peace and quiet.
Let's get more from CNN's Will Ripley, who spent a lot of time reporting inside North Korea, but tonight, he comes to us live from Seoul. Sometimes
it's kind of symbolic smaller steps that kind of cement an agreement to try to civil between neighbors.
WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's true, Hala. It's interesting when you are in the border region and you hear these competing
loudspeakers. On a clear day they can go up to 12 kilometers in either direction. They are blasting, K-pop, news headlines, and messages,
respective propaganda messages from the different countries.
[15:20:06] It's designed to antagonize the other side, entice the other side, you know, from the South perspective to try to entice North Korean
soldiers to defect, sending them a message that life is, you know, presumably better on the South side, and what not. It might seem childish,
but this has been going on for years.
It is part of the propaganda war, the information war between North and South Korea. So, the dismantling of the loudspeakers on the South side, we
haven't heard what the North is doing. But we believe that the North is also going to be taking their loudspeakers down at some point. This is
just one more step forward in the process of trying to normalize relations between the North and South after so many years of tension.
GORANI: And so, what's the next step here? Is the expectation that Donald Trump, the U.S. president will be meeting Kim Jong-un in the DMZ as well?
RIPLEY: In fact, President Trump spoke just a short time ago, Hala, saying that the announcement about the location and the date for that summit will
be made within the next couple of days. And given the messaging from President Trump that he believes the DMZ is the best place after seeing the
images, the extraordinary made for TV images from the inter-Korean summit on Friday.
Also, word from North Korean officials, I spoke with an official with deep knowledge of North Korea's thinking on the matter who says that President
Moon Jae-in of South Korea convinced Kim Jong-un that the DMZ is the best location, not only logistically for Kim because he can drive there as
opposed to fly to a different location along with his delegation and security detail.
But also, because they already have the infrastructure in place, the broadcasting equipment, the press center, and President Trump apparently
now believes that the symbolism of the place makes it appropriate for a meeting. Whereas before the White House had completely brushed off the DMZ
thinking that it was not a neutral location like the previous frontrunner, Singapore.
But we know with this White House, Hala, things can change -- turn on a dime. So, I guess, we just really have to wait and see. But, from the
North Korean side, they would like to see the DMZ and apparently, President Trump would like to see it there as well.
So, my money is now on the DMZ. That and $1.50 will get you a ride home on the subway because we can never really predict what's going to happen in
GORANI: Certainly. And a few days sometimes turns into a few weeks when it comes to announcements and we'll see when we get that as well. Thanks,
Will Ripley, live in Seoul.
Now to a list that is giving us extraordinary insight into an investigation that's been shrouded in secrecy. "The New York Times" has obtained nearly
50 questions that Special Counsel Robert Mueller wants to ask Donald Trump. You can't see them. We will have a few breakout graphics to read specific
Despite what the president says, some of them do relate to possible collusion with Russia. One asks what he knew about Russian hacking during
the campaign. Another asks what knowledge did you have of any outreach by your campaign, including by Paul Manafort, to Russia about potential
assistance to the campaign?
President Trump called this leak disgraceful, but he also suggests it proves Mueller is not looking into collusion, which he calls a made-up
phony crime. And that's not factually correct either as some of the questions do relate to potential collusion.
Now they do raise a number of questions themselves, namely, who might have leaked the material and why, and legally, what does this tell us about the
I'm joined now by CNN legal analyst, Attorney Areva Martin. Thanks for being with us. So, let's talk about the potential obstruction of justice
questions, including the big one, why did you fire James Comey? What does that tell us about the investigation at this stage?
AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Hala, it tells us that the special counsel is really focused on the activities of Donald Trump once he was in
office and specifically around his firing, as you just said, of James Comey. To prove obstruction of justice, you need criminal intent.
You need to get into the mind of the person that was engaged in the conduct. So, it's not enough for a special counsel or prosecutor to prove
that the act itself was done, i.e., the acts of firing James Comey. We have to learn more.
The prosecutor has to learn, what was the intent of the individual once that action was taken. So, the questions -- and you are right, so many of
them relate to obstruction -- go to Donald Trump's state of mind. Why did he fire James Comey?
We know that he has given us several different explanations. First, it was the explanation about the handling of the e-mail scandal involving Hillary
Clinton, then we saw the Lester Holt NBC interview where he specifically said, it related to the Russia matter.
So, James Comey, through these questions we are learning, is trying to get to the bottom of it, what was the real reason for the firing and what was
Donald Trump thinking at the time when he was making that decision to fire Comey.
GORANI: And then there are a set of questions related to the campaign activity of the Trump campaign during the election. We have a graphic here
with a few of the key questions among the 49 here that were leaked to "The New York Times."
When did you become aware of the Trump Tower meeting? What did you know about communications between Roger Stone and Wikileaks? When did you know
about Russia's attempt to establish a back channel? What discussions did you have regarding Russian sanctions?
[15:25:12] So, though Donald Trump is saying via Twitter no collusion has been established and his spokes people are saying most of the questions
relate to something other than collusion, we're seeing many key questions about that going down that track.
MARTIN: Absolutely. Donald Trump's tweet and his team's spin is just that, it's spin. It's not the facts. When we read the questions
carefully, which I have done and I'm sure you have done, it's very clear that Robert Mueller and the special counsel's office is very interested in
the activities of the Trump administration, then the candidate's administration and their relationship to Russia.
Special Counsel Mueller wants to know, what did Donald Trump know about his team's interactions with Russians before he was elected. When I look at
those questions as a lawyer, it's pretty clear to me that Special Counsel Mueller has the answers to a lot of these questions.
He is already interviewed multiple, multiple witnesses. He has a lot of information, which again is why we're seeing Trump's team push back on
Trump even going in to sit down and talk with special counsel. Even though these are questions, it's not certain that there will ever be a sit-down
meeting with the special counsel and Donald Trump unless there is a subpoena.
Because Trump' team knows that for him to sit down and answer those questions and face the possibility of criminal charges if he tells a lie
during that investigation. So, I think they know it's too much at stake for him.
GORANI: A quick last one, because some of the questions relate to a period many years before the campaign, to Trump's business dealings in 2013 during
a Russia trip. I wonder, what do you make of the fact that these questions are of interest to Robert Mueller?
MARTIN: Well, we've been hearing all along that this investigation although started with the Russian collusion, the Russian interference in
the United States' presidential election, that from the initial investigation that it has grown, it has become more broad and more
expansive, including looking into business dealings of Donald Trump.
We know Michael Cohen has mentioned at least three or four times in those questions. We know the special counsel is very interested in any
relationship that Cohen and Trump had with a Russian businessman. So, I think we get a pretty good picture from those 49 questions.
It's important to note, those are just topics. If the interview were to ever happen, there are hundreds and hundreds of follow-up questions that
would occur in addition to the questions that we've given an opportunity to review.
So, I think for me, it's very clear that the investigation is far from over. Donald Trump's insisting there's no collusion is far from the truth.
The investigation continues. There is potential expose not just for Donald Trump but for those that have been involved in his campaign as well.
GORANI: Areva Martin, thanks very much for your analysis there following the publication of these leaked questions.
Still to come tonight, children exploited in mines, even physically abused, all to make supposedly ethical electric cars. A CNN "Freedom Project"
report is next.
And the dark side of an app used regularly around the world. CNN investigation uncovers dozens sexual assault allegations against Uber
driver. We'll be right back.
[15:30:15] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, if you want an electric car or you're thinking of getting one, you'll want to listen to
this. A CNN Freedom Project investigation has found children working where a key component of a battery, cobalt, is made. CNN's Nima Elbagir and her
crew travel to the Democratic Republic of Congo and here is what they found.
NIMA ELBAGIR, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Christian and his friends are digging 20 meters down, taking turns at 24-
hour shift. There's no light and little oxygen, but what they bring up is precious. This is the start of a supply chain leading all the way from
this makeshift mine to your luxury batteries (INAUDIBLE).
The facts of it full of cobalt, a crucial component of lithium ion batteries set to power the coming green energy revolution, but it will
There is growing evidence of the cobalt supply chain uses child labor. Companies say they're working hard to verify the source of all their hand-
mined artisanal cobalt but it's a difficult task. We're here to follow the supply chain and see if we can do it for them. Before we set out, even the
local governor warns us to expect to see children at work. We arrive at the Musonoi river mine where the cobalt ore is washed to grind it down.
Although we've been given permission to film here, as soon as they see us, officials begin to scare the children away. Not all of them though are
fast enough. Some work on. One young boy staggers under his load. His friend sees the camera and he drops his sack. They've clearly been warned.
A mining ministry official spots, this boy carrying cobalt has been captured by our cameras. His response is brutal.
Later, we asked him why he struck the child. He refused to answer. We've now witnessed for ourselves that children are working here, that they are
involved with the production of cobalt and we've seen the product of that child labor loaded onto a variety of different vehicles. I'm going to jump
into this car that's headed to one of the main public selling cobalt depots.
I'm told we're going to Kapata market. This is where the cobalt is bought by brokers. It's where it first enters the supply chain. The car company
Tesla, for once, says its cobalt sources are audited and issued with the place of origin. They wouldn't say from where or how. But there is no
sign of certification here. We watched the brokers set the price and none of them asked where the cobalt is from or how it was mined. Artisanal
mining output tripled. And the fear is even more children are being pressed into labor. Why? Because cobalt is skyrocketing in price.
Supplying your green electric car comes at a cost.
We have permission to film here, but local mining officials once more tried to stop us. Our producer captures the scene on a hidden camera. The
government says it's working to combat child labor. But the same mining ministry official tasks with enforcing and ethical supply chain have been
the ones attempting to block our investigations.
[15:35:01] A police officer arrived and we're told we need to leave for our own safety. We do. But not before we spot a red truck loaded up and
leaving the very same market. It matches the distinctive red of the trucks used by one of the main international cobalt supply firms, China's Congo
Dongfang Mining. We did. We decide to follow it. It can't afford to lose him because where he delivers that cobalt load, that is the link between
the children that you saw down there on the river front and the global market.
As the truck pulled into its final destination, guards rush out to block our cameras. We later received a warning phone call. This facility is
under the protection of the presidential guard. We're told to stay away.
What's going on? That appeared to be a CDM truck. But this isn't a CDM facility. Tax records show it was declared non-operational three years
ago. Rising smoke and export records show cobalt is still produced here. CDM's parent company, Huayou tells CNN they did have a relationship with
the facility, which ended only last year. They're disturbed enough to launch an investigation into our findings. Although they state other
companies also use red trucks.
CNN visited three sites to show how widespread the use of child labor is. At this mine, in spite of our permission, we eventually had to resort to
filming undercover to capture the shocking.
We couldn't prove where exactly the dirty cobalt enters the international supply chain, but we witnessed that it does. Mercedes-Benz, Tesla, Fiat
Chrysler, among others say they have a zero tolerance policy for the use of child labor, but they acknowledged they are unable to fully map their
supply chain due to its complex nature. Carmakers simply cannot promise consumers their products are one hundred percent child labor free. This is
the artisanal mining cooperative, it's called Kasulo. It's run by the main international supplier, CDM. Rose and rose of red trucks like the one we
followed a white pickup here access and entry are controlled to block the presence of children and certificates of origin, CDM says are dispensed in
controlled circumstances. This is what the big brand names who source their cobalt from Congo believe governs their supply. But this is the
exception, not known.
The cobalt from Kasulo accounts for less than a quarter of the country's artisanal cobalt export. Here, the ministry of mining has to counter sign
for the certificate of origin to be considered valid. So the very same entity whose officials CNN found complicit in hiding the presence of child
labor at the artisanal mines we visited is responsible for certifying the cobalt here is child labor free. After 10 days in Congo, our contacts
advised us to leave for our own safety.
What have we learned? At the main market, nobody as where the cobalt is for sale is mined or how. We followed a truck to an operation that is
pumping dirty into the international supply chain under the edges of the Congolese presidential guard. We witnessed mining ministry officials
harassing children to hide them from our cameras, while others blocked our filming, all employed by the same Congolese authority carmakers entrust to
issue the certification.
But from what we've witnessed, it's clear no manufacture can fully assure you that your electric car is truly ethical. And as demand for essential
cobalt soars, it's children like this little boy who are paying the real price.
GORANI: And Nima joins me now in the studio. And Nima, we have a response from the Democratic Republic of Congo. What are they saying?
ELBAGIR: We do. We raised it with the governor. We raise the act of violence that you saw towards the child, but also the intimidation and
harassment that we were subjected to and this is what he has to say.
ELBAGIR: Your transparency and your willingness to allow us access to the sites was not reflected on the ground. We were subjected to intimidation,
we were harassed. Children were harassed in front of us, they were pushed, they were physically intimidated to leave the sites. So while we commend
what we're hearing from you, what we saw on the ground paints a darker picture, I think than you yourself are aware of.
[15:40:06] GOV. RICHARD MUYEJ, LUALBA PROVINCE, CONGO (through translator): There's a general view that people are now using cobalt to bring down
Kabila. So there's a kind of resistance and if we're not careful, we might find ourselves on the brink of aggression. But to prove our goodwill in
this, when I learned that there had been these incidents, I brought in our police commissioner, the head of our police. I did this because when I
assessed the situation, I concluded there had been a misunderstanding.
We have nothing to hide. What we really want is goodwill. When we make an effort, we would like to be treated fairly. Given that important cobalt
production is situated in the Congo, it will not be easy to skirt the issue. You and we must work together to make the issue of traceability
transparent and to make the sites safe and regularized.
The private companies are earning huge amounts of money. But the population remains poverty stricken and that is not fair. I think that
true success must involve a win/win situation for everyone involved. If only one side profits from a situation, that gives rise to resentment.
GORANI: Right. I mean, I guess people watching this -- I mean, and we're hearing from the government saying, we need the wealth to be distributed
more equally. People who buy electric cars are all proud of themselves and think, I'm putting in the extra money because I'm doing something that's
good for the environment. How do they know where their battery components come from?
ELBAGIR: I mean, it's sad that if they don't.
ELBAGIR: Because the companies themselves don't know. But then this comes back to the companies. Why is it that Tesla or the Benz or Fiat Chrysler
aren't letting you and me know that they don't know? And that that transparency and that due diligence in the supply chain needs to follow it
all the way through. So where we lost the trail of the supply chain, that is exactly where everybody else loses it. And there's no excuse for that
given the vast sums of money.
GORANI: Where do you lose it exactly? Because you were at the source, the very source.
ELBAGIR: We were at the source.
GORANI: It went to become murky.
ELBAGIR: It went into a refining facility, which didn't exist on paper, so you have the issue of the inherent corruption in Congo, which everybody
knows when they come in to Congo. This isn't a surprise to any of these manufacturers. But then we see that the company that doesn't exist is
exporting where the largest amounts of cobalt into international supply chain. But because manufacturers are following the supply chain all the
way through, they don't know who's buying that. It's like an abyss.
GORANI: But who are they purchasing this material from then the Teslas and Mercedes-Benzes?
ELBAGIR: That's about from second and third and fourth parties. But this information is out there. That's the extraordinary thing for me. When we
started researching and legal states follow the security missions and the state, all of these companies, Tesla included admit that (INAUDIBLE) they
called the complex nature of their supply chain. They don't know what ends up in it and where it ends up at.
GORANI: But this just not good enough. Is it? I mean --
GORANI: When you see this, you see the exploitation of kids. They have to -- what -- I mean, human rights organizations are saying that what should
be done, stop buying electric cars or what?
ELBAGIR: No. They're saying that you can't -- it would -- you can't penalize these communities even more. And like the governor is saying,
poverty is at the root of this. But you need to demand more. You're the consumer. You hold the power. Demands more of your Teslas and your
Mercedeses. These are not small fly by night companies.
GORANI: And they make loads of money off of it.
ELBAGIR: Yes. This isn't good enough.
GORANI: All right. Well, so pressure perhaps on the companies, at least to come clean about the fact they don't necessarily know where the cobalt
Nima Elbagir, thanks very much. Great reporting. And we'll be right back. A lot more tonight.
It's often relied on as a safe way to get home, but a CNN report has uncovered disturbing allegations to drivers who work for Uber. Stay with
us for our exclusive report.
[15:45:14] GORANI: Demonstrators across the globe have been taking to the streets this May Day to demand better working conditions. But as is often
the case in Paris, there were some -- they're called (INAUDIBLE) which means breakers, so they're anarchists, disrupted and otherwise peaceful
protest. McDonald's restaurant was attacked with a Molotov cocktail. That's always a favorite target for them. Other businesses and a rental
car dealership were also damaged.
In Brazil, a 26-storey building home to dozens of families has collapsed after catching fire. It was in the country's largest cities, Sao Paulo.
At least one person is confirmed dead according to the fire department. There are no official numbers on those still missing. But you could see a
terrible scene there in Sao Paulo.
To a shocking CNN investigation now involving an app used around the world, often without a second thought. We have discovered that more than 100 Uber
drivers in the U.S. have been accused of sexually assaulting or abusing their passengers over the past four years. And we've spoken to someone who
says the company has gone to great lengths to keep the accusations very quiet. Drew Griffin has that story.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anxiety and depression.
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Like many victims, she feels shame, hasn't told her children, is trying to protect her own privacy. But still
wants every woman to know what she says happened to her when she began feeling intoxicated at a Miami area bar. Sought a safe ride home and used
the convenient Uber app to summon a ride.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I don't remember anything until the next morning.
GRIFFIN: And the next morning?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The next morning I woke up and both my pants and my underwear were on the floor.
GRIFFIN: Evidence pointed to assault. Her Uber driver, Nemar Abdullah (ph) is charged with felony sexual battery, has pled not guilty and is
awaiting trial. She is suing the company that promises a safe ride home.
A CNN investigation has uncovered dozens of cases like hers, none of the information comes from Uber, which did not provide CNN numbers on how many
of its drivers have been accused of sexual assaults, the company saying they are working through their data.
Instead CNN scoured public records, police reports, civil and criminal court cases and talked with a dozen attorneys representing victims. The
results, CNN has documented at least 103 Uber drivers in the U.S. who've been accused of sexually assaulting or abusing their passengers in the past
four years. At least 31 of those drivers had been convicted on charges ranging from battery to rape. Dozens of criminal and civil cases are
Uber is by far the largest ride-share company with 15 million rides per day worldwide. And while hard to compare directly, the smaller ride share
company Lyft with one million rides per day in the U.S. and Canada is also dealing with sexual assaults by its drivers.
A similar CNN review found 18 cases of Lyft drivers accused. Four drivers had been convicted. A dozen criminal and civil cases are pending. Lyft
told CNN, "The safety of the Lyft community is our top priority". And their company says it has worked hard to design policies and features that
protect our community.
Many of the cases fit a pattern like this one when this woman was escorted out of a bar in Long Beach, California and got into the back seat of an
The individual reports from across the country are horrific. In San Diego, an Uber driver pled guilty to raping one passenger and sexually assaulting
at least nine other women in a serial rape case that sent him to prison for 80 years.
[15:50:01] In Northern Ohio, an Uber driver pled guilty to unlawful sexual conduct with a minor, forcing a young passenger to perform a sex act on
In Fort Worth, Texas, an Uber driver allegedly kidnapped an elderly passenger, driving her to a wooded area where according to the police
report, he raped and beat her. He has not entered a plea.
Victims kidnapped, raped, trapped in cars with electronic locks. One victim told police she was forced to drink her driver's urine.
And multiple experts from police to lawyers to prosecutors tell CNN the actual number of Uber drivers accused is much higher than the 103 we found.
Either the crimes aren't reported, there isn't enough evidence to prosecute, or Uber quietly settles the matter before a civil case can even
Uber first agreed to and then cancelled an interview with CNN about this story. And instead gave us a statement about safety updates the company
has made since CNN first started asking about the pattern of sexual assaults months ago including an emergency button, driver screening
improvements and the addition of the former secretary of Homeland Security to head up Uber's safety advisory board. The company insists it's putting
safety at the core of everything we do.
JEANNE CHRISTENSEN, ATTORNEY: Uber has done a miraculous job of keeping the stories quiet.
GRIFFIN: Attorney Jeanne Christensen has been suing Uber on behalf of victims since 2015. Uber, she says, settles cases and demands silence from
all parties -- non-disclosure agreements in exchange for a settlement.
GRIFFIN: How many cases have you and your firm handled?
CHRISTIANSEN: I can't go on record and say that, because there's confidentiality, sorry.
GRIFFIN: In addition to money, Christensen's class action lawsuit against Uber seeks more thorough screening of drivers.
GORANI: Drew Griffin reporting there and we'll continue to monitor this disturbing story and bring you developments including any further response
we may get from Uber.
More to come this evening, including this CEO struck the wrong tone while trying to tout a mega merger.
GORANI: The boss of a supermarket chain here in Britain is facing the music quite literally. It's a bit embarrassing for him, to be honest. The
CEO is having to apologize after being caught doing something you should never do if you're anywhere near a television camera. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE COUPE, CEO, SAINSBURY'S: We're in the money, the sky is sunny, let's lend it, spend it, send it rolling along.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: That was Mike Coupe, apparently unaware he was being filmed as he sang, "We're in the Money" from the musical 42nd Street. An unfortunate
choice on the day news broke of blockbuster merger with Walmart's Asda. Coupe has apologized and a spokesperson for Sainsbury's said it was an
innocent moment involving a catchy song.
Now to another blockbuster going on here in the U.K. And just a little more than two weeks, Prince Harry and Meghan Markle are getting married.
And for those of you who want to know of the details, CNN's Max Foster takes us inside the chapel where they'll say their vows.
[15:55:06] MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Windsor Castle, home to kings and queens for nearly 1,000 years. And within its grounds, Saint George's
Chapel where many members of the family have been baptized, married and, yes, buried. Where Meghan Markle has driven into these hallowed grounds,
packed with special guests, she will mark a new chapter in this most famous of family histories.
The car will come into what will be a quite eerie quite cloister. It'll stop here. And the first thing that will confront the bride is some 20
steps leading up to the chapel. As Meghan Markle enters the church, the guests will turn around and see her at the west beneath that spectacular
stained glass window. This whole area will be filled with seats 600 people in total. It looks vast and spacious. It's actually quite interesting at
this level and quite a narrow aisle as we move up from the name into the choir in a few more steps.
As she enters the choir, wherever she looks she'll see a nod to the knights of guard. It's the highest order of chivalry in the land, the oldest in
the world. High up in the ceiling, above of Henry VII who completed this church 500 years ago. Flags represent all the current knights of the
Garter, including the best man there, Prince William, his flag and below him, the seat where he would normally sit. So all of these plaques
represents a Knight of the Garter.
A grain marble slabs sunken into the aisle, another reminder of Henry VIII. As Meghan Markle will literally walk over his grave towards her fiance. As
the royal family who will be seated on this side. The bride's family on the other side and she'll eventually settle up there by the step where
she'll meet Harry.
And with the words, I will, an American celebrity becomes British royalty. Max Foster, CNN, Windsor, England.
GORANI: And that's your inside look. Thanks for watching. I'm Hala Gorani. Stay with CNN. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.