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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Urgent Manhunt Now, Dangerous Sex Offender Escapes Motor Home; Fatal Obsession, Teen Cheerleader Shot Dead By Stalker; Accused Golden State Killer`s Sensitive Body Part As Evidence; A Woman Accused Of Murdering Her Son Gives Birth Again. An Armored Truck Spills Money On The Street; Teen Cheerleader Shot Dead By Stalker?; Cops Focus On Accused Serial Killer`s Anatomy; Mom Accused Of Killing Son Gives Birth Again; CNN Hero Surprises Student He Inspired; Money Grab After Armored Truck Spills Its Load; Registered Child Sex Offender Who Is On The Run In Hiding In California; Cheerleader Shot and Killed By His Ex-Boyfriend. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired May 03, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00]

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Hello, everyone, welcome to "Crime and Justice," I`m Ashleigh Banfield some people are so famous

they only need one name, we are going to get t that story in a moment. But first, this is a breaking story that we`re following out of California, and

that is a manhunt, a manhunt that is now going into 48 hours. Look closely at that picture. Police say this man is armed and dangerous, but new

pictures tonight could help to pin him down. Our Kyle Peltz is with us right now. Kyle, what are people looking out for here?

KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right. This guy has multiple tattoos of animals on his body. He is managed to escape police

for two days now. But Ashleigh, we just got our hands on a mountain load of documents related to this guy`s past, and they are extremely disturbing.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable, armed and dangerous and still out there. OK we are going to get more information on that in a moment.

Also some very disturbing new details are out there right now from a Tennessee courtroom. Take a look at this young woman. This young woman

needs justice tonight. A former college football player is on trial for murdering her. She was just 16 years old, and a cheerleader. And his ex-

girlfriend, which should be a clue here, she was shot dead through her own bedroom wall, now we`re learning he faked his own kidnapping right before

she was killed. Bernice Man is now covering this story. What else are we hearing?

BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: As past Heaters (ph) say, Riley Gaul, his own kidnapper. New tonight, we`ve got creepy texts, and a secret

recording that shows the suspect allegedly planning to get rid of the murder weapon.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable. Faking his own kidnapping. And as we understand, faking being a victim too.

Next story, this story. The picture on the left, the picture on the right, the 72-year-old man today accused of raping at least 50 women, killing 12

people in their homes, caught after 40 years of hiding in plain sight. Now he will have to bear it all. And be photographed naked. Michael Christian

has been digging through the warrant information. They just got the go ahead, Michael, to take these nude photographs of him. What are the

secrets behind this maneuver?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: That is so true, Ashleigh, they`ll be able to collect DNA from him, get his fingerprints and

photograph his entire naked body. So you`ve got to wonder what secrets, did maybe victims tell police that these photos could reveal.

BANFIELD: Unbelievable. Naked photographs. I suppose we`ve heard of it before. But I`m curious about the evidence.

OK, next. Take a look at this. Can you tell what that is? Can you tell what`s -- oh, when you zoom in, you sure can. That, my friend, incredible

video, from an Indiana interstate where the back door of a brinks truck flew open wide. The driver had no idea, and kept just going as the money

flew out. What would you do if a flurry of cash was all over the Freeway, right there for the taking? How police attorney get all that money back

and the people that they`ve been tracking who may have just made one very stupid, but tempting move. Fill you in on all of that.

First, though, the rush to find a registered child sex offender who`s on the run, 46-year-old Steven Houk, has now had two days to get the cops off

his tail after fleeing on foot from a California almond orchard. Which is a place he decided to abandon his two young children in a motor home. They

were just -- years and 11 months old, they were with the family dog and they were left alone. Authorities say, he took those kids and the dog from

their mom on Tuesday, and then this happened. He made police chase him for 100 miles. But tonight, there is no telling where he is. And police say

he has a gun.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN EDDIE HERNANDEZ, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: He should be considered armed and dangerous, if you see this individual, our

recommendation is to call local law enforcement. Do not try to apprehend him yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: We know Steven Houk was locked up for eight years after assaulting a child under 12. And we know that since then, he has violated

parole, and reportedly threatened to harm one of his children as well as his wife. Still, his sister insists he is a good person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWINA JACK, STEVEN HOUK`S SISTER: My brother is not a menace to society. He is not out to harm anyone. He is a good dad. Those kids mean the world

to him. I would hope that he comes to his senses and just go and surrender. Because inevitably, he, you know he is not going to get away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Those kids may mean the world to him, but not the one he assaulted. He must really love that sister, too, because she says that she

is one of the people he called during that 100-mile chase. Even though he has lost his motor home and lost his wheels and transportation, the chase

for him is still on, after 48 hours on the run, he could be anywhere tonight.

[18:05:10] With me now from Bakersfield California, Terry Maxwell, talk show host for KNZR Radio, CNN law enforcement analyst and former Director

for the U.S. Marshalls, Art Roderick, he is back with us tonight. And also defense attorney, Caroline Polisi is with us. OK, first to you Terry,

what`s the latest in terms of the identifying tattoos that we now know he has and not just a couple of them?

TERRY MAXWELL, TALK SHOW HOST, KNZR RADIO: Well, I guess -- when you`re in prison, you tend to get a lot of tattoos. And it`s a great way for people

to identify you. I know that the police and the sheriff`s department are putting out APB`s on this gentleman trying to make sure that everybody on

understands that he has identifying tattoos, the one that we are all aware of is the cow skull on his -- I think it`s right forearm.

BANFIELD: Yes, so right forearm, that is the cow skull. We`re looking at the cow skull right now. As you said, this is perhaps not the best

artistry in the world. My apologies to the prison artist who likely did it. But that is the cow skull on the right forearm. And then as you were

alluding to as well, there are two other ones, there`s the howling wolf, which is on his right, you know, shoulder, or side of his arm. And then

there`s, you know, the one on the far right there looks like a puppy dog. I assume he meant for it to look like a scary wolf, but it doesn`t, it is

like a puppy dog.

MAXWELL: I`m just hoping that he makes sure and keeps his shirt off so that we can see it.

BANFIELD: Yes. Well, you know what, the forearm is hard to miss, right. You might be able to cover up the side of your arm there, but the forearm

is a little harder to cover up. And that tattoo in the middle there of the cow skull, whatever he meant it to be, with something dripping off, that is

pretty obvious.

MAXWELL: Right.

BANFIELD: So obviously those pictures will be helpful for those who are trying to track him down. Here`s the other interesting part, Terry, in

your neck of the woods, the weather can be awful and the weather can be great. I looked up the weather for Bakersfield, and just today the high

was 84. And I think the low was only 59. Which isn`t difficult if you`re outside and on the run. And here`s Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday`s weather,

just in case anybody`s wondering as well. What more do you know about the terrain where he is out, probably for his third night, if he is able to

stay out all night?

MAXWELL: Well, he really isn`t going to be roughing it. In this central valley this is a great time of year to actually be outdoors. And the low

temperatures at night are certainly not going to freeze him, and the high temperatures during the day, as long as he is underneath the shade, he`ll

do just fine. He is in an agricultural area. So there`s probably going to be plenty for him to eat.

And I would guess that he is -- he is in an Almond Orchard is where he went out. But we grow carrots here, we grow stone fruit. We have corn. We`ve

got potatoes. We`ve got all sorts of things, and he is in an area that you have a lot of farms. So he could easily go to just those farms. And I`m

sure they`ve got vegetables growing right next door to their houses.

BANFIELD: Seems to me that is kind of an area that there are a lot of grapes. Is it wine country, or do they just grow a lot of grapes out

there.

MAXWELL: Most of the table grapes you`ve eaten your whole life came from the central valley, and around Bakersfield, all the way up to Fresno

County. We produce a tremendous number of grapes, but unfortunately for us, and unfortunately for him, grapes are not in season right now.

BANFIELD: OK, then the other issue is, you know, fruit is one thing, water`s the other. Are there a lot of water sources, or would he be out in

the open if he were trying to get to those water sources.

MAXWELL: No, because they irrigate all those crops and the irrigation canals would keep him hidden. And there`s water all over the area that he

is in. They have automatic pumps that bring water from our wells. Most of the water that we use in the central valley comes from wells, it doesn`t

come from the -- it doesn`t come from the -- from the rain. Or from what you would call surface water. So the ground water --

BANFIELD: That is a bummer. That is a bummer. That is not something you want to hear if you`re tracking. I have a few more questions for you,

Terry, about what the wife has told us, what happened right before the motor home chase. Hold onto that for a second.

Art, you heard all that information from Terry about the surrounding area, the almond orchard, the vegetables, the carrots, the grapes. The

irrigation, it is a very (inaudible). He is almost got all the food groups out there. Does that make it, you know, for the marshals, does that make

it really tough?

ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALSYT: It does for law enforcement, but again, I mean, we`re forgetting the whole psychological factor of

trying to avoid capture by law enforcement. So that weighs very heavily on the mind psychologically, very difficult to sleep. So we`re in today,

getting in to three days now. And if he hasn`t had regular sleep, then that is going to have an effect on him, both psychologically and

physically.

[18:10:03] Now, the other issue, too, that I think we`ve got to look at is, of all the classification of fugitives we go after, whether they`re

escapees, drug violators, sex offenders, I wouldn`t say it`s common, but it is not unusual for us to come across sex offenders that would prefer to

commit suicide rather than go back to jail. And I key on that, because I think in one of the records that we looked at earlier, he had conversations

about he`d rather die, rather have law enforcement shoot him than go back to jail. So he is got that in his mind-set, that, hey, I`m not going to go

back to jail. So, either I`m going to commit suicide myself or it is going to be suicide by cop. But we have to take all aspects of what possible

scenario we`re looking at right now.

BANFIELD: Yes, and you know what, Art that other scenario is, I`m going to go down in a hail of bullets and I`ll be sending out a few of my own as

well, which makes it very dangerous for those tracking him. Because if he is not afraid to die, he is not afraid to take people down with him as

well.

RODERICK: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Let me play this real quickly if I can, Captain Eddie Hernandez, of the L.A. County Sheriff`s Department, he talked a little bit about what

happened right before that chase, that 100-mile chase in the motor home, because we knew he had his kids and the family dog and we knew mom was left

behind, but here`s what he had to say about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we know what sort of fight they are in?

HERNANDEZ: It`s just an argument between the two that escalated. I guess he has some history of being violent with her and the kids. And whatever

it was, the specifics of it, don`t want to get into it, but I obviously escalated to the point where he kicked her out of the motor home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So real quickly, Terry Maxwell, the -- he is -- look, it doesn`t surprise anybody to hear that he is aggressive with his kids and his wife.

But there was specifics to the fight that he had with the wife and sort of how the motor home factored into it. What do you know?

MAXWELL: Well, from what we understand, they had their fight, and he threw her out of the R.V., keeping the kids and the dog. And immediately got in

and started driving away. And she was not in good shape when he did this to her. So her reactions were not that great. He was well down the street

by the time she was able to find someone that could help her with where she was at.

BANFIELD: Was she hurt, was she able to talk?

MAXWELL: She was able to talk, but she was, as I say, not somebody who was making a lot of sense because, I believe they were actually living in the

R.V. And this whole thing kind of took her by surprise. He threw her out. And she didn`t know what to do at first. And people --

BANFIELD: Well, surprise, surprise, when you marry a registered sex offender who`s busted his parole for two years, and you decide to have two

kids with him. And apparently it`s a common law marriage. So maybe she did not, you know head to the altar. But surprise, surprise that might

happen, that kind of way it works when you`re dealing with a guy who was in the clink for eight years for molesting a 12-year-old.

And when I say molesting, sodomizing, touching, using a vibrator, all sorts of things, which is pretty horrendous stuff. So real quickly, this is what

his family thinks of him, this is a big surprise. You would think if a guy like this was on the run and had done this, and abandoned his own two kids,

beat up the wife and left her behind, you would think that you`d want him found too, right? You wouldn`t say he is a good guy like the sister did.

Here is what Captain Eddie Hernandez of the L.A. County Sheriff`s Office says about how cooperative of the family`s being in looking for him. Take

a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we know if he has maybe any family in other areas where he may head to? Or is there any indication of where he might have

headed?

HERNANDEZ: I don`t want to get into the specifics of that because that could jeopardize us locating him. I could tell you that we have been in

contact with some of his family members, and they haven`t been cooperative with us at this point about his whereabouts, or what his mental state might

be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Mental state, I think we kind of know something about the mental state. Caroline Polisi, say he took off not only with the handgun, but

also with the cell phone. And that is usually good news when you try to track someone.

CAROLINE POLISI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. The cell phone is going to be a key piece of investigatory work that these agents -- they can ping,

there are cell towers and they can`t get an exact match as to where someone is. But based on sort of triangulation of the pings they can access

potentially where he could be so that is going to be huge here Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And Art Roderick, does it matter if the phone is on or off, can they still get that data?

RODERICK: If he dump it the battery, they`re not going to get the data. So it does make a difference. And I`m sure that they hooked onto that

phone right away. Because he was actually conversing with the wife, the common law wife while he was on the 100-mile trek.

BANFIELD: And the sister. Yes, not the smartest fella.

RODERICK: Right.

BANFIELD: We`re going to have a lot more of this coming up by the way at 7:00. Because those crimes he committed, in Oregon, were unbelievable.

And the victims, a shock as well. And by the way, how do you skip out on your parole for two years? What kind of manhunt should have been on for

him? Prior to the manhunt that now is on for him. All that is coming up at 7:00.

[18:15:17] Shocking new details as well about some very, very strange text messages that were sent to a high school cheerleader, just before she was

shot to death in her bedroom. Prosecutors now say that they show the ex- boyfriend faked his own kidnapping in a twisted attempt to make her love him again.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Celebrating a win after a high school football game with all of your friends. That is a typical Friday night for a 16-year-old American

cheerleader. And it was a very typical night for Emma Walker, and a whole troop of her friends. That is until the text messages started rolling in.

And they were anything but typical. One of them read go to your car with your keys, go alone. I`ve got someone you love. If you don`t comply, I

will hurt them. No parent would ever recommend their daughter comply with instructions like that. And Emma was inclined not to. So she instead

grabbed one of those friends at the Party, and went outside to investigate. She had a hunch that she knew he was behind it. The boyfriend, who she

recently dumped. He was a football player, who had gone off to college, but he`d also reportedly been stalking her recently.

So Emma and her friend are barely outside long enough when, wouldn`t you know it, another text comes in, and this one more threatening than the

last. It said what part of alone wasn`t clear? I don`t want to hurt a loved one. If assumptions are right, Emma was supposed to believe that

that loved one, who was in trouble, was 18-year-old Riley Gaul, Emma`s ex- boyfriend, the suspected stalker.

And wouldn`t you know it, when Emma gathered a protective group of friends now from that Party, and decided to go back outside, well, low and behold,

there he was, Riley Gaul, only this time he was playing victim? Riley Gaul was lying face down on the ground like the victim of that phantom

kidnapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZACH GREEN, VICTIM`S FRIEND: He was holding his head, I was kidnapped. I don`t know what happened. Why are you here? Why are you doing this? You

need to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he respond to that?

GREEN: He was just holding his head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So the kids didn`t believe Riley`s story out there, lying down like a victim of some kidnapper who was texting. But unfortunately it

didn`t end here, because the next day a man dressed all in black seen here, take a close look, started banging on Emma`s door. Wouldn`t you know who

came to the rescue? You bet, it Riley Gaul, who supposedly jilted, stalking ex-boyfriend, shows up light a white knight, and within minutes,

no less, and for some unknown reason Emma believed him.

But the next night Emma was dead, she was shot through her bedroom wall as she slept in her bed. The very same day, Riley`s grandfather had reported

his pistol was missing. The pistol that he stored under the driver`s seat of the car that he had just swapped with his grandson Riley. And thanks to

the friends Riley texted, the friends he asked to help cover for him, Emma`s ex was arrested and charged with murder, because those friends made

a plan with the police and they got their buddy Riley behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh my god.

This is -- this is a real gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With your right hand open the door from the outside. Open the door all the way. Exit the vehicle, get your hand up, hands up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Pretty unbelievable drama. And witnessing all of that, Jesse Weber, a host on Law and Crime Network in court seeing it all play out.

Defense attorney, Caroline Polisi knows a thing or two, about defending a case like this and Clinical Forensic Psychologist Dr. Judy Ho, knows a

thing or two about why on earth someone would be hate like this.

So first to you, Jesse, that is incredible, the was the audio of the kids in the car, ostensibly on their way to get rid of the gun when they`re

pulled over by the police, because those friends had called the cops and said we think -- we think that Riley`s up to something really bad.

JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAW AND CRIME NETWORKS: Oh, yes, absolutely, they testified today that they knew from the kidnapping it didn`t sound right.

Because when they -- first they were worried about their friend. And then when they met Riley, where were the injuries, where were these mysterious

people that took you? Something was fishy.

[18:25:05] BANFIELD: Let me get back to that --

WEBER: Right.

BANFIELD: -- this is just so weird, if I`m to understand this correctly, the kids are all having a great time. Poor Emma gets these weird text

messages saying someone you love is being held, come outside. Eventually she brings the whole gang out and there`s Riley, pretending as though he is

been hit in the head and nobody believes his story. Clearly he is not a very good actor, he is not able to convince all these kids who were

probably scared out of their wits about what`s been happening, that he, in fact, has been some victim of some kidnapper who said, by the way, make

sure you call Emma. Is that the way this played out?

WEBER: The Friday night, the Saturday night and the shooting were all part of a plan to get her attention, to get her alone.

BANFIELD: Riley`s admitting this, right?

WEBER: He has admitted to the police. Now, we haven`t seen yet his police interview, which I really can`t wait to see, but really, when you`re

listening to this and trying to make sense of his behavior is, this is a mentally unstable person. Now, the defense is saying, look, he came to her

aid, he is her white knight. He wanted to protect her, they had a terrible relationship. But at the end of the day when you look at these three

events over the course of three days, how do you explain this behavior?

BANFIELD: So just imagine, if you will, Caroline and Jesse and Judy, I will get you in on this as well. Take yourself back to when you`re 16, OK?

And this is the text that Emma got when she is at that party with all of her friends. That these are really threatening and scary texts to be

receiving. He says to -- because we now know he says he is the one texting, right? He says to Emma, because Emma is challenging him, saying I

think that you`re a friend of Riley`s trying to scare me. And he says, I`m no one`s friend. We have him, meaning Riley, we have Riley now. If you

don`t care about him anymore, then it shouldn`t bother you. Call the police, and he dies, your choice. If you`d like to hear his final screams,

give me a call. He is in a ditch beside the house. It`s a shame you can all of a sudden not value someone`s life. So this is the -- this is the

text that Riley is now admitting to sending her, pretending to be a kidnapper of Riley.

WEBER: Oh, absolutely.

BANFIELD: And as they come out they find Riley pretending to be victim of the kidnapper.

WEBER: You can hear the tone where he is trying to see, do you really love me? That is the subtext of it. Do you love me? Are we getting back

together? Please. And if you look, he sent her, before this horrible shooting, message after message. I think it was 64 different

communications, he tried to get in touch with her, please, I beg you, then boom, the shooting happened late Sunday night, early Monday morning.

BANFIELD: So, you know, mental illness one thing, but also clearly this guy`s not thinking straight, is not very clever at all, because he

apparently said that the kidnapper, as he is holding his head and saying I`ve been hit and I`m hurting, and the kidnapper took my phone, right, he

says the kidnapper took my phone, but then it was just a few moments later, the friend of Riley gets a text from Riley, on a phone, I would assume, on

his phone, and this is what the text said to the friend, obviously Riley`s trying to explain this, why am I lying on the ground. My head is

throbbing, I have no, I am assuming, f-ing idea what happened. I literally woke up in her yard. I could have been killed. And Emma didn`t even give

a, what, s-h-i-t, and Emma didn`t even give a, you know what, he is complaining more about Emma not giving a you know what, than having been

captured and beaten by a kidnapper and left face down in a yard.

WEBER: Worst criminal. I mean, literally --

BANFIELD: On the phone he said was taken.

WEBER: I mean, really, if he is going to plan a kidnapping and say that he is not this person, not this person, really, this is what you`re going to

say, I mean, it`s really hard to argue. It`s not an easy job to be his defense attorney right now.

Judy Ho, help me out here. I feel like this stuff that Jesse was witnessing could cut two different ways. This is a very troubled young man

who could be so troubled his ultimate decision is if I can`t have her, no one can have her, and we hear a lot of that in domestic violence that ends

up in murder.

But I can also see a kid who is so blindly in love with this girl that he desperately wanted her and would do anything to scare her into his arms.

Which is exactly what his defense is in court. I just wanted to fire the gun to scare her into running into my arms. It worked before. It will

work again. What do you see as a clinical and forensic psychologist?

JUDY HO, LICENSED CLINICAL AND FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I greatly question that defense strategy, because when we look at the pattern of his

behavior, we see that this is somebody who lies over and over again. And usually with that theme of painting himself as the victim, is that every

action he takes is really one towards self-preservation. So not only does he involve his friends in this, telling his friends to lie for him, telling

his friends to tell the police that they were on drugs, that they were the ones who were not of their sound mind, so that they don`t give away pieces

of information that would lead him to be the person responsible for murder. This is somebody who -- maybe he is not super clever -

[18:30:00]

BANFIELD: You know something, I want to read a text that Riley sent his friend Alex. You know, he was asking Alex to help him get rid of the gun

and help him clean up, you know, evidence that looked, you know, pretty damning to him. Riley says, "Delete these texts after I end send this next

one to you, please." Alex says, "Okay, I got you." Riley says, "Why did you tell them about the gun? They think I shot her because of it."

Riley goes on to say, "just god, please, promise me if any cop asks you anymore questions, just tell them you`re not willing to answer because you

can`t get in any trouble." And Alex says, "But how would you throw the gun in a river if your grandpa has it? And why would you feel the need to

even do that?" Riley says, "Because of them accusing me of doing this. Just promise you. I didn`t f-ing kill her. I would never hurt her, and I`m

probably going to jail." And then this is what the undercover audio sounded like as he got together with his friends right before the said plan

to get rid of the gun. Have a listen to the audio.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

RILEY GAUL, DEFENDANT: I would hurt myself before I`d hurt her. Whenever you talk to the police, just be like, you were too afraid to tell them you

were on acid because you thought you were going to get in trouble. If you tell them you were on LSD you were drunk, and you were high, your mind was

altered, whatever statement you gave wasn`t a straightforward answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So why can`t you just give them the gun?

GAUL: Just - it just needs to be gone. I want to be so upset but I can`t because I`m worried about being arrested and put away for a murder that I

didn`t commit. I`m trusting you guys with my life because this is 70 years in jail if I get convicted of something I didn`t do.

If the gun is in the Tennessee River, they`ll never find it.

(END SOUND CLIP)

BANFIELD: Listen, Caroline Polisi is a defense attorney. Is this a panicked innocent teenage boy trying to clean up a bunch of really, you

know, disturbing and ugly facts that don`t pertain to killing, or is this a sinister killer trying to clean up ugly facts?

CAROLINE POLISI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it could be. Remember, the defense here is not that he didn`t do it. They`re acknowledging that he is

the one that fired the gun.

BANFIELD: But he`s a panicked teen in love.

POLISI: But the defense is that he didn`t have the criminal intent -

BANFIELD: Right.

POLISI: -- associated with a cold-blooded murder, that this was all part of this elaborate ruse to, you know, get his one true love --

BANFIELD: So which one is it? I see both. I see a panicked lovelorn teenager trying to fire a gun and scare her, and I also see a psychotic guy

who can`t handle not having Emma and wants her dead.

POLISI: Right. Certainly the recording that we just heard there doesn`t sort of go to the panicked one, the panicked version. It goes to more of a

cold-blooded calculated guy who is trying to cover his tracks. He seemed very calm, cool and collected in that. It`s not going to bode well with

the jury.

BANFIELD: Could be a panicked calm, cool, collected guy trying to clean up facts after doing something dumb. This is really hard on this jury. All

right guys, thank you for that. Jessie Webber, as always, thank you. Judy Ho, thank you to, Caroline, please you can`t go anywhere. We got some new

details tonight on exactly what the police want to know about that accused Golden State killer Joseph James DeAngelo, poor puppy-eyed old man in a

wheelchair in court, maybe not, right?

And let`s just say some of the things police are investigating are below the belt, very big in terms of importance, very small otherwise.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: They say he spent the last 40 years hiding in plain sight. A former police officer, accused of raping 50 plus women and killing 12

innocent people, sneaking into their homes, tying up their loved ones and often making them watch the rapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BERWERT, VICTIM OF GOLDEN STATE KILLER: I remember the heat of his breath on my neck. I remember his voice. I remember the weight of his body

and his knife. I remember -- I`ve remembered all too much. It`s not something you forget and it`s not something that doesn`t change you -- the

core of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tonight countless Californians are breathing a little easier because the golden state killer is behind bars or at least that`s what the

prosecutors say. And they want to prove that. They want to prove it`s him by taking some pictures of his penis. That`s right. The prosecutors just

fought tooth and nail for a search warrant that would let them photograph 72-year-old Joseph DeAngelo`s naked body below the waist. A search warrant

his attorney tried desperately to protect him from.

She argued that warrant was issued before his arrest. But according to the Sacramento Bee, and according to accounts from some of the women he`s

accused of raping, there`s a whole other reason DeAngelo doesn`t want anyone seeing his private parts. With me now is CNN`s Dan Simon.

[18:40:00] He was in court for today`s hearing, and Caroline Polisi, defense attorney is with me. What is it Dan? What do they know about the

rapist that they think just might match DeAngelo?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: First of all Ashleigh, this was the second consecutive day that we`ve seen Joseph DeAngelo in the court. As you`ve

said, what the defense wanted to do is they wanted to prevent the prosecution from getting a few things. They wanted to prevent the

prosecution from getting fingerprints. They wanted to prevent additional DNA, DNA swab. And also they wanted to prevent the prosecution from getting

photographs.

Now, why would that be, Ashleigh? Well, you`re talking about rape victims and it would be standard operating procedure for police when talking to

rape victims about what a man may look like physically down there, if you know what I mean. And according to some of these women at the time, they

reported that Joseph DeAngelo was not well endowed physically.

So that is why, of course, they would want to get these photographs. The judge is going to allow that to happen, presumably it`s already taken

place. They wanted to do this yesterday, but the defense, as you said, fought them tooth and nail and the judge allowed it to happen today.

BANFIELD: Listen, this is a deadly serious case and I understand you`re, you know, mitigating the presentation of what that is. But I`m going to

give you another account that KFBK Radio`s Ryan Harris said. He said that some of the victims said that the rapist had an unusually small penis,

that`s what they said. They knew it because they suffered.

And if there`s any kind of anatomy that they can identify on a killer or a rapist, that counts. And while you`re, you know, trying to sort of deal

with this because this is a series of murders, a series of rapes, perhaps there`s a level of humiliation if he in fact is the Golden State killer who

thought he was so macho and powerful and held these women`s lives. To hear the world finding out that in fact, you`re not.

Caroline Polisi, is this an unusual request? How often is a rapist forced to have his penis photographed? How often is a description of a small

penis, something that can actually lead to a conviction?

POLISI: Not very often, but in this instance, obviously Ashleigh as you noted, because we do have potentially prior victims explaining sort of

identifying factors about the person who committed this heinous act. This is probative. This is relevant. A judge is not going to grant this, you

know, the search or this very embarrassing really invasive procedure.

BANFIELD: Let`s just say humiliating.

POLISI: Humiliating.

BANFIELD: And say it again, because it`s humiliating when you`re sitting there chained to your wheelchair and your DNA matches a bunch of rapes,

over and over again. It`s humiliating for the world to hear you have what`s quoted as an unusually small penis if in fact you are the rapist.

POLISI: Yes, a judge would not grant that order if it were not highly, highly probative of the question of guilt or innocence. So, I think this

could be sort of a big piece of evidence in this case.

BANFIELD: So Dan, you know, for a lot of the people who are suffering, you know, from what this did to them, whether they lost a loved one, whether,

as you heard from that woman, they are living with the horror of the memory of his hot breath and the stink of him. I don`t even know if this is any

kind of small consolation to humiliate him in a way they have felt so humiliated, wrongly so, but in a way they have as well. I want you to hear

Mary Berwert. She was raped by the East Side rapist when she was just 13. And this is what she has to say about the arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERWERT: I cried because finally I had a face. Now I`m not wondering as I`m walking down the street or going about my business, doing work,

whatever I was doing, that I could be talking to that man. I don`t care that he`s old. I don`t care that he`s feeble. He -- I do care that he sits

and lives with it until the day he dies. He just needs to die with the weight of all of the pain of all of the families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s real pain and real suffering. Dan Simon, we didn`t get any video today of him in court as they were talking about photographing his

penis and alleging that if he is the rapist, the rapist had an unusually small penis. Did he look humiliated?

SIMON: I`m not sure I would go that far, Ashleigh. I mean, he did seem to be paying attention to what the judge was saying and was also watching what

his attorneys were saying. He didn`t project this sort of dementia look that we saw last Friday. It is noteworthy once again to point out that he`s

still in this wheelchair, he`s handcuffed to the wheelchair and obviously a lot of people are questioning that just in the days before he was arrested.

[18:45:07] He was seen riding his motorcycle, was going something like 100 miles an hour on the freeway. He was doing work around the house. So the

idea that he is sort of physically disabled, Ashleigh, I think applies in the face of all the evidence that we`re seeing.

BANFIELD: Makes you often wonder too what`s that 100-mile an hour motorcycle ride accommodating for -- just asking. Dan Simon, thank you for

that. Dan is going to continue doing the reporting on this case. Caroline Polisi is going to stay with me.

In Ohio, a mother accused of killing one of her children, gives birth to her tenth, that would be the day after pleading guilty to a food stamp

fraud, but that`s the least of her worries.

[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Without a doubt, the birth of a baby is one of the best days in anybody`s life. But you really have to wonder if that`s how Larissa

Rodriguez felt when she delivered her new baby girl, her tenth child, because the last time we saw Larissa it was like this, in a Cleveland

courtroom, and she looked like she was just about ready to pop.

She`s been in jail since December after police found her 5-year-old special needs son buried dead in the backyard. She`s facing murder charges because

of it. She`s being held at $1 million dollars bond. Last week, Larissa was in court, and that`s when she was sentenced to six years in prison for

selling her food stamps to a caseworker. And she immediately went into labor.

And the very next day she was taken from the jail to deliver that baby girl. Rodriguez was immediately -- that baby of Rodriguez was immediately

put into foster care. Caroline Polisi, it is such a fascinating thought, that she is in prison, she can have that baby, go right back to her cell,

but how often do they get to keep the babies in prison with them?

POLISIS: Well there is actually a program in Ohio that allows for mothers that delivering their children to have their children with them actually in

the cell, in this tiny little cell. It`s 8 x 14 feet or something like that, but this defendant unfortunately, Ashleigh, is not going to be

eligible for that. It has to be a sentence of under 36 months and you have to be a nonviolent offender so, there goes that.

BANFIELD: Well here`s what interesting. She hasn`t been convicted of a murder yet. I mean, she might be, but there`s that food stamp thing, which

isn`t violent so, she actually could have prevailed. She could have this baby kept in the cell with her based on the nonviolence.

POLISI: That`s 36 months.

BANFIELD: That should in fact that it`s a six-year sentence which means, sorry.

POLISI: You don`t want a 6-year-old basically in prison with their mother. I mean, just too old basically to be in a cell.

BANFIELD: Makes sense. And look at that, in that appearance you can tell she was ready and she`s had that tenth, tenth baby.

Was it a dream come true or some sort of morality issue -- something, not sure what it is. Money, everywhere, holy cow. Was this a morality test?

Thousands of dollars blowing around on an Indiana highway? What would you do if you saw this? And it didn`t look like there was anyone around. Would

you take it? That`s next.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Last year we shared the story of Coach Khali Sweeney, a top 10 CNN Hero from Detroit who uses boxing to lead kids on a path to academic

success. His story of perseverance and sacrifice has inspired a lot people, but it really struck a cord with one social studies student from Alton, New

Hampshire who wrote Khali a letter (inaudible). She had no idea of the power she had to inspire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come up here for a second. Remember, we said that he wanted to Skype with us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, he decided to do a little more than that. Can I introduce Mr. Khali Sweeney from downtown boxing gym and his program from

Detroit, Michigan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was so honored to meet him, somebody like Khali Sweeney who changes lives every single day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Awesome. To see this little story of Khali`s surprise or to nominate somebody you think should be a CNN Hero, please go to

cnnheroes.com.

And we have one more thing for you tonight. What would you do if you just saw thousands of dollars like blowing in the breeze on the side of the

highway?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A bank truck just dropped all this money and people just came out here and was getting a hell of money. Look at all this money.

You should have seen people was getting off school buses, getting this. Look at all this money. They are all 20`s, all this money right here. This

man came and got a bag of money, y`all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Oh, hell of money, I love her. So it turns out the Brink`s truck driver didn`t even know the back door was open and that the money was

flying out. So the trail of money went on for a pretty huge stretch. The Indiana police are still trying to track down the missing hell of money.

[19:00:00] And they say anybody who turns in the cash that they took will not be charged with a crime. But anybody who`s tracked down with some of

their hands on those 20`s, well they will be. Just think about it, what would you do?

Next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD (voice-over): On the run, armed and dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do not try to apprehend him yourself.

BANFIELD: The manhunt for a child sex offender.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He sexually touched a child under 12 years old.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s been absconding his parole for last two years.

BANFIELD: How he somehow gave police the slip.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are still not sure as to when he exited the vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can you let somebody get away like that? I mean, how does someone get away like that?

BANFIELD: After a four-hour pursuit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that the driver is armed.

BANFIELD: Heading into night three, where is he hiding? And is he getting any help?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have been in contact with some of his family members and they haven`t been cooperative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My brother is not a menace to society. He is not out to harm anyone.

BANFIELD: But at least we now know exactly what to look for.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s got a tattoo of a cow skull and some other tattoos.

BANFIELD: He is accused of murdering his high school cheerleader ex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He made central high school a better place and the world a better place.

BANFIELD: But what he did before she died is nothing short of chilling, a fake kidnapping, a phony victim, all to get sympathy and win back her

love:.

Was the shooting an accident after a breakup? Or a plot where if he couldn`t have her, no one would?

And explicit photos of a man the police say is the golden state killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember the heat of his breath on my neck.

BANFIELD: Why would police want pictures of an old man`s genitals?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They would want to take him into a room, undress him.

BANFIELD: You could say there is a very big story about a very small thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know when you will be collecting those samples?

BANFIELD: Are there secrets police have never released? And are there stories from victims that have never been told?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This person who brought so much terror and misery into their lives is finally going to be punished for what he has done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.

Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

We are now 48 hours into the manhunt for a registered sex offender who is on the run tonight, a man who was locked up for eight years after he

molested a child under the age of 12. And since then he has violated parole, fathered two children, and reportedly threatened to harm one of

them as well as his wife. That, before taking those kids, dumping the mom, and driving away in a motor home on a chase with the police that lasted 100

miles, a chase in which his sister said he called her, a sister who insists that her sex offender brother is a good person.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now we`re in the mix.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My brother is not a menace to society. He is not out to harm anyone. He is a good dad. Those kids mean the world to him. I

would hope he would come to his senses and just go and surrender because inevitably he is not going to get away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, he has gotten away for now because 46-year-old Stephen Houk, after abandoning his 3-year-old son and 11-month-old daughter as well

as the family dog in that motor home, he got away. He did all this after getting the wheel stuck in an almond orchard. Police say he did take some

things with him. He took a gun, and a cell phone, and police are warning people everywhere tonight that he is dangerous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. EDDIE HERNANDEZ, LOS ANGELES COUNTY SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT: He`s -- should be considered armed and dangerous. If you see this individual, our

recommendation is to call local law enforcement, do not try to apprehend him yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: With me tonight from Medford, Oregon, freelance reporter Craig Fronek, CNN law enforcement analyst and former assistant director for the

U.S. Marshalls, Art Roderick. He is also here. And defense attorney Caroline Polisi is with me.

So Craig, let me start with you, if I can. What is the very latest in the manhunt? Do we have any details that they might be closing in?

CRAIG FRONEK, FORENSIC REPORTER (on the phone): Ashleigh, hi. Great to be with you.

\ No, we don`t. Law enforcement is -- they are throwing everything they have got at it. It`s been 48 hours. He did, with the drive on this dirt road,

there was no visibility. They enlisted a helicopter. The infrared picked up a sense in the motor home. But he had escaped. And the infrared was

actually the 3-year-old child sitting in the driver`s seat. It`s just beyond pale that he would involve children like this. This man is

unpredictable.

[19:05:10] BANFIELD: I`m just, you know, I just got a good look, if we can roll that video again. I`m going to ask our control room to go back to

that -- right there. You can see he has got the beard. That`s one thing I didn`t pick up on, you know, before when I was looking at the elements in

the story.

He is still got that beard and he has got that ball cap. I don`t know if he will take it off or not. But that`s one of the things that`s helpful

for anyone who is trying to identify him. It looks like he is wearing some kind of an olive green or muddy brown jacket that covers his forearms. And

that`s important, too, because we are also learning, Craig, about these tattoos that he has. They are very identifiable. By the way, he is also

wearing glasses there. This is on his right forearm. It`s the cow skull with seaweed, I don`t know, whatever it is dripping off of it.

FRONEK: Those are Indian markings, Indian feathers.

BANFIELD: Are they? Really? They don`t look like it. And it is bad tattoo. Probably one of those prison jobs.

FRONEK: Yes.

BANFIELD: But there you go. Take a good look at the forearm, the right forearm. If he takes that jacket off that he is wearing, and he is

probably going to have to, because in that area, the high is 84 degrees in the shade.

And then look at what`s on his arms, that`s important too, right around the bicep area on the left, upper biceps is not a puppy dog even though it look

it. I`m sure he meant it to be a menacing Wolf, right, Craig?

FRONEK: Well, there`s issues. Those are more on his shoulder, if he is wearing a t-shirt, those are going to be covered. One is either a husky of

some type. And the other one is a howling Wolf. It`s a mountain and the moon over behind it. But they are high up on his shoulder. And he is

armed and dangerous, pure and simple. Law enforcement`s got it right.

BANFIELD: Yes. And like I said, he has got the long sleeves on when he is in that chase. But these are the tattoos just in case for any reason you

see them peeking out of a t-shirt, a t-shirt that is too small because who knows what kind of clothes he had with him.

Craig, there`s a super interesting detail that we learned in our last hour that might help us to understand the supplies that he at least had with the

one time. And that was that it seemed he may be living out of the motor home, that the whole family actually might be living in the motor home. So

in terms of clothing that was accessible to him before he gave police the slip he may have gathered up something else.

But he was in such a hurry, and the police were on his tail, like about eight cruisers or so were following him into that orchard when he got stuck

in the dust cloud sort of masked his escape. Who knows if he had enough time to grab anything else? So the clothes that we see him in in that one

frame, where he goes by, you can see the hat and the beard and the jacket or the long-sleeved garment that he has on that`s either muddy or olive

colored, maybe that`s all he has.

But, again, the highs are around mid-80s, the lows around 59 degrees in that part of the world. But it`s farmland. He`s got lots of supplies,

like food and water, right, Craig?

FRONEK: Well, yes. And here`s the next thing, he has worked in the trades. He has trade history and then he was imprisoned, you know, like

you said, for eight years. And he is desperate men will do desperate things. And I think this is what people need to realize, law enforcement`s

called it correctly. It`s a sad thing that he is involved his small children. \

And even with the pleading of his common law wife on the phone during the chase, still no getting through to him. It is a sad thing. But when it`s

unpredictable like this, clothing is not going to matter. He is just -- and I think he may be coming north, quite frankly. I just don`t -- he has

got family in Oregon.

BANFIELD: I mean, it`s entirely possible. Why else would you drive 100 miles north with the police on your tail other than to hope to continue

your journey at some point. Although there is some talk that maybe this man could be suicidal. I`ll get into that in a second.

First and foremost, when I was it was farmland, we are learning that there are a lot of carrot crops in the area where he ditched out. Also, a lot of

grapes that grow there, stone fruit we are told as well. Of course almonds because he ditched in the almond orchard right there, and those trees are

filled with almonds. The grapes haven`t come into season yet.

But just you get an idea of him sort of forging off the land for a while, if that is what his plan is, is also highly irrigated in this area, so lots

of water. There`s a water source right there, probably an irrigation ditch right there. So, you know, in terms of just making this more difficult,

Art Roderick, I`m going to get you to jump in on that, that is not the kind of ideal conditions and nice temperate weather U.S. Marshalls like to hear

about when they`re tracking a guy who is, you know, under the cover of darkness.

[19:10:01] ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. It does make it more difficult for law enforcement. But you know, one thing nobody`s

talked about, although he might have access to food and water, there`s a psychological toll. And if he is not sleeping, we are into day three here,

and I`m sure he is not sleeping well, if he is sleeping at all. So there is going to be a psychological toll which is going to affect his physical -

- you know, his physical well-being at this particular point in time.

And we talked earlier about the possibility that this type of individual with this type of charge is sort of prone to the possibility of committing

suicide. And he did talk about this on the phone with his ex-wife while he was in that 100-mile chase that he wanted to be shot by law enforcement and

go down in a hail of gunfire. So that could be a very good possibility too as to why we haven`t heard from him in a couple days. But also why, you

know, the forward-looking infrared on the helicopters hasn`t picked up a heat source in that area.

BANFIELD: I`m glad you mentioned that. I actually want to play something from Edwyna Jack, that Steve Hauk`s sister. He made a phone call to her

while he was on that 100-mile dash. He also called his estranged wife, the one he had thrown from the motor home, the mother of those two children he

had stolen, obviously the owner of the dog as well. This is what he said to his sister regarding what you just said, Art, the suicidal nature, the

suicide by cop, the willing to sort of scorch earth in all of this. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EDWYNA JACK, STEPHEN HAUK`S SISTER (on the phone): He called yesterday while I was at work and left a message. And said I`m being followed by the

cops. This is probably the last time I will talk to you, because he claims he will not be taken alive. He would prefer death by cop, have the cops

shoot him as to go back to prison.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That`s never good when you have a guy who`s out on the run like that.

So I want to put up that picture again that shows him clean shaven-ish and also with the beard, there he is with the glasses, the hat and the beard.

OK? That is very likely what he could look like right now.

And on the right-hand side of your screen, what he would look like if he was more shaven, he has got the moustache there. You can see he has got a

receding hairline. You can`t hid that when you take the hat off. But look at that image on the left, particularly because that seems to be exactly

what he looked like when he went flying by in the motor home and we were able to highlight that profile shot of him. He had glasses on. He had a

ball cap that looked like it was that color. And he had that beard hanging below. Can you see that? You know, it`s really hard to get that in a

pinch.

But look, there you go, the beard, the glasses and the hat. So if you are in the Bakersfield area, and you know what, since we are into night number

three for him out on the run, expand that circle. Because that`s the guy you are looking for with those three defining tattoos as well. Very

important.

While I say that, Craig, it`s important to note, this isn`t a guy who just stole his own kids and his family dog and took off in a motor home O.J.

style, because this wasn`t a high speed chase. It was just a long chase. This is a guy who was convicted and spent eight years in prison for heinous

crimes against children. And I know you have been digging up the history on those crimes. What did he do?

FRONEK: Ashleigh, he was convicted on one count, but he was charged with sodomy one, sex abuse one, unlawful sex penetration one, and rape one. And

one of the charges landed him at 100 months in jail. And this is cognizant of what`s going on. I mean, he is now reached his limit. And your other

expert indicates, very smartly involved, that he is desperate. And with lack of sleep and irritable and unpredictable, anything`s possible at this

moment. And it`s -- everyone needs to be careful.

BANFIELD: Hey, by the way, one count of sodomy, he pleaded guilty to it. He had two counts of sexual abuse that were dismissed. And you know the

details of those allegations. What were they?

FRONEK: Well, under sex with a child under the age of 14, and this is where it`s disturbing, to say the least. And you know, when you have

something like that, he is a current sex offender in the state of Oregon, and he is obviously not here. And so in the state of California. So he`s

in trouble on that. And life is just too big for him right now.

[19:15:00] BANFIELD: Apparently, I`m just reading here one of those charges that was dismissed involved that child under 14 being touched in

her vaginal area with a vibrator as well. It`s just awful. It was awful.

I just want to bring up one other point here. We are also hearing that the family that he has, you heard the sister, who said he is a good guy. He is

not a menace to society. Did you hear about those charges, and those convictions? They are not being cooperative. And I think that tells us a

lot.

The family is not being cooperative with the police. And obviously what you mentioned earlier, Craig, could bode true, maybe he is looking for a

little help from his family and friends.

We are going to continue to watch this story. And we will continue to bring you updates on it as well.

In the meantime, there`s some very shocking new details that are coming out about strange text messages sent to a high school cheerleader. That was

just days before she was shot to death in her own bedroom.

The prosecutors say the text messages show this young man, her ex- boyfriend, faked his own kidnapping in a twisted attempt to win back her love.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:251] BANFIELD: Celebrating a win after a high school football game with all of your friends, that is a typical Friday night for a 16-year-old

American cheerleader. And it was a very typical night for Emma Walker, and a whole troop of her friends. That is until the text messages started

rolling in. And they were anything but typical.

One of them read go to your car with your keys, go alone. I have got someone you love. If you don`t comply, I will hurt them. No parent would

ever recommend their daughter comply with instructions like that. And Emma was inclined not to. So she instead grabbed one of those friends at the

party, and went outside to investigate. She had a hunch that she knew he was behind it. The boyfriend, who she recently dumped. He was a football

player, who had gone off to college, but he`d also reportedly been stalking her recently.

So Emma and her friend are barely outside long enough when, wouldn`t you know it, another text comes in, and this one more threatening than the

last. It said what part of alone wasn`t clear? I don`t want to hurt a loved one.

If assumptions are right, Emma was supposed to believe that that loved one, who was in trouble, was 18-year-old Riley Gaul, Emma`s ex-boyfriend, the

suspected stalker. And wouldn`t you know it, when Emma gathered a protective group of friends now from that party and decided to go back

outside, well, lo and behold, there he was, Riley Gaul, only this time he was playing victim. Riley Gaul was lying face down on the ground like the

victim of that phantom kidnapper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZACH GREEN, VICTIM`S FRIEND: He was holding his head, I was kidnapped. I don`t know what happened. Why are you here? Why are you doing this? You

need to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did he respond to that?

GREEN: He was just holding his head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So the kids didn`t believe Riley`s story out there, lying down like a victim of some kidnapper who was texting. But unfortunately it

didn`t end here because the next day a man dressed all in black seen here, take a close look, started banging on Emma`s door. Wouldn`t you know who

came to the rescue? You bet, it was Riley Gaul, the supposed jilted stalking ex-boyfriend, shows up like a white knight. And within minutes,

no less, and for some unknown reason Emma believed him.

But the next night Emma was dead. She was shot through her bedroom wall as she slept in her bed. The very same day, Riley`s grandfather had reported

his pistol was missing. The pistol that he stored under the driver`s seat of the car he had just swapped with his grandson, Riley. And thanks to the

friends riley texted, the friends he asked to help cover for him, Emma`s ex was arrested and charged with murder because those friends made a plan with

the police and they got their buddy Riley behind bars.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my God. This is really --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear me?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Open the door from the outside. Open the door all the way. Exit the vehicle, get your hand up, hands up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Pretty unbelievable drama. And witnessing all of that, Jesse Weber, a host on law and crime network in court seeing it all play out.

Defense attorney Caroline Polisi knows a thing or two about defending a case like this. And clinical forensic psychologist Dr. Judy Ho knows a

thing or two about why on earth someone would behave like this.

So, first to you, Jesse, that is incredible. That was the audio of the kids in the car, ostensibly on their way to get rid of the gun when they

are pulled over by the police because those friends had called the cops and said we think -- we think that Riley`s up to something really bad.

[19:15:13] JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAW AND CRIME NETWORK: Oh, yes, absolutely. They testified today that they knew from the kidnapping it didn`t sound

right. Because when they -- first they were worried about their friend. And when they met Riley, where were the injuries, where were these

mysterious people that took you? Something was fishy.

BANFIELD: Can you back to that? This is just so weird. If I`m to understand this correctly, the kids are all having a great time. Poor Emma

gets these weird text messages saying someone you love is being held, come outside. Eventually, she brings the whole gang out and there`s Riley,

pretending as though he has been hit in the head and nobody believes his story. Clearly he is not a very good actor. He is not able to convince

all these kids who were probably scared out of their wits about what`s been happening, that he, in fact, has been some victim of some kidnapper who

said, by the way, make sure you call Emma. Is that the way this played out?

WEBER: The Friday night, the Saturday night and the shooting were all part of a plan to get her attention, to get her alone.

BANFIELD: Riley is admitting this, right?

WEBER: He has admitted to the police. Now, we haven`t seen yet his police interview, which I really can`t wait to see. But really, when you are

listening to this and trying to make sense of his behavior, this is a mentally unstable person.

Now the defense is saying, look, he came to her aid. He is her white knight. He wanted to protect her. They had a terrible relationship. But

at the end of the day when you look at these three events over the course of three days, how do you explain this behavior?

BANFIELD: So just imagine, if you will, Caroline and Jesse and Judy, I`m going to get you in on this as well. Take us back to when you are 16, OK,

and this is the text that Emma got when she`s at that party with all of her friends. These are really threatening and scary texts to be receiving. He

says to -- because we now know he says he`s the one texting, right. He says to Emma, because Emma is challenging him, saying I think that you are

a friend of Riley`s trying to scare me. And he says I`m no one`s friend. We have him, meaning Riley, we have Riley now. If you don`t care about him

anymore, then it shouldn`t bother you. Call the police, and he dies, your choice. If you would like to hear his final screams, give me a call. He

is in a ditch beside the house. It`s a shame you can all of a sudden not value someone`s life. So this is the -- this is the text that Riley is now

admitting to sending her, pretending to be a kidnapper of riley.

WEBER: Oh, absolutely.

BANFIELD: And as they come out they find Riley pretending to be victim of the kidnapper.

WEBER: You can hear the tone where he is trying to see, do you really love me? That`s really the subtext of it. Do you love me? Are we getting back

together? Please. And if you look, he sent her, before this horrible shooting, message after message. I think it was 64 different

communications he tried to get in touch with her, please, I`m begging you, I`m begging you, I`m begging you, and then boom, the shooting happened late

Sunday night, early Monday morning.

BANFIELD: So, you know, mental illness one thing, but also clearly this guy is not thinking straight, is not very clever at all because he

apparently said that the kidnapper, as he as holding his head and saying I have been hit and I`m hurting, and the kidnapper took my phone, right. HE

says the kidnapper took my phone but then it was just a few moments later, the friend of Riley gets a text from Riley, on a phone, I would assume, on

his phone, and this is what the text said to the friend, obviously Riley`s trying to explain which, why am I lying on the ground. My head is

throbbing. I have no, I`m assuming, f-ing idea what happened. I literally woke up in her yard. I could have been killed. And Emma didn`t even give

a, what, S-H-I-T, yes. And Emma didn`t even give you know what. He is complaining more about Emma not giving a, you know what, than having been

captured and beaten by a kidnapper and left face down in a yard.

WEBER: Worst criminal, literally.

BANFIELD: On the phone he said was taken.

WEBER: I mean, really, if he is going to plan a kidnapping and say that he is not this person, not this person, really, this is what you are going to

say. I mean, it`s really hard to argue. It`s not an easy job to be his defense attorney right now.

BANFIELD: Judy Ho, help me out here. I feel like the stuff that Jesse was witnessing could cut two different ways. This is a very troubled young man

who could be so troubled. His ultimate decision is if I can`t have her, no one can have her, and we hear a lot of that in domestic violence that ends

up in murder. But I can also see a kid who is so blindly in love with this girl that he desperately wanted her and would do anything to scare her into

his arms which is exactly what his defense is in court. I just wanted to fire the gun to scare her into running into my arms. It worked before. It

will work again. What do you see as a clinical and forensic psychologist?

JUDY HO, CLINICAL & FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I greatly question that defense strategy because when we look at the pattern of his behavior, we

see that this is somebody who lies over and over again.

[19:30:00] And usually, with that theme of painting himself as the victim, and that every action he takes is really one towards self-preservation.

So, not only does he involve his friends in this, telling his friends to lie for him, telling his friends to tell the police that they were on

drugs, that they were the ones who were not of their sound mind so that they don`t give away pieces of information that would lead him to be the

person responsible for her murder, this is somebody who maybe he`s not super clever, but he has truly thought out --

BANFIELD: Yes, you know, something, I want to -- I want to read a text that Riley sent his friend Alex. You know, he was asking Alex to help him

get rid of the gun, and help him clean up, you know, evidence that looked, you know, pretty damning to him. Riley says, delete these texts after I

send this next one to you, please. Alex says, OK, I got you. Riley says, why did you tell them about the gun, they think I shot her because of it.

Riley goes on to say, just God please promise me if any cop asks you anymore questions, just tell them you`re not willing to answer because you

can`t get in any trouble. And Alex says, but how would you throw the gun in a river if your grandpa has it? And why would you feel the need to even

do that? Riley says, because of them accusing me of doing this. Just promise me. I didn`t f-ing kill her. I would never hurt her, and I`m

probably going to jail. And then, this is what the undercover audio sounded like as he got together with his friends right before this said

plan to get rid of the gun. Have a listen to the audio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RILEY GAUL, DEFENDANT: I would hurt myself before I`d hurt her. Whenever you talk to, just be like, you were too afraid to tell them that you were

on acid because you thought you were going to get in trouble. If you tell them you were on LSD you were drunk, and you were high, your mind was

altered, whatever statement you gave him wasn`t a straightforward answer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, why can`t you just give them the gun?

GAUL: Just -- it needs to be gone. I want to be so upset but I can`t because I`m worried about being I`m more worried about being arrested and

put away for a murder that I didn`t commit. I`m trusting you guys with my life because this is 70 years in jail if I get convicted of something I

didn`t do. If is in the Tennessee River, they`ll never find it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Wow, listen, Caroline Polisi as a defense attorney, is this a panicked innocent teenage boy trying to clean up a bunch of really, you

know, disturbing and ugly facts that don`t pertain to killing, or is this a sinister killer trying to clean up ugly facts?

CAROLINE POLISI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it could be. Remember, the defense here is not that he didn`t do it. They are acknowledging that he

is the one that fired the gun.

BANFIELD: But he`s a panicked teen in love.

POLISI: But the defense is that he didn`t have the criminal intent --

BANFIELD: Right.

POLISI: -- associated with a cold-blooded murder. That this is all part of this elaborate ruse to, you know, get his one true love --

(CROSSTALK)

BANFIELD: So, which one is it? I see both. I see a panicked lovelorn teenager trying to fire a gun and scare her, and I also see a psychotic guy

who can`t handle not having Emma, and wants her dead.

POLISI: Right. Well, certainly, the recording that we just heard there doesn`t sort of go to the panicked one, the panicked version. It goes to

more of a cold-blooded calculated guy who`s trying to cover his tracks. He seemed very calm, cool, and collected, and that`s not going to bode well

with the jury.

BANFIELD: Could be -- could be a panicked calm, cool, collected guy trying to clean up facts after doing something dumb. This is really hard on this

jury. All right, guys. Thank you for that. Jesse Weber, as always, thank you. Judy Ho, thank you, too. Caroline Polisi, can`t go anywhere.

We got some new details tonight on exactly what the police want to know about that accused Golden State Killer Joseph James DeAngelo, poor puppy-

eyed old man in the wheelchair in court, maybe not, right? And let just say some of the things the police are investigating are below the belt,

very big in terms of important, very small otherwise.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: They say he spent the last 40 years hiding in plain sight, a former police officer, accused of raping 50 plus women, and killing 12

innocent people, sneaking into their homes, tying up their loved ones, and often, making them watch the rapes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY BERWERT, VICTIM OF GOLDEN STATE KILLER: I remember the heat of his breath on my neck. I remember his voice. I remember the weight of his

body and his knife. I remember -- I`ve remembered all too much. It`s not something you forget and it`s not something that doesn`t change you, the

core of you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Tonight, countless Californians are breathing a little easier because the Golden State Killer is behind bars, or at least that`s what the

prosecutors say, and they want to prove that. They want to prove it`s him by taking some pictures of his penis. That`s right. The prosecutors just

fought tooth and nail for a search warrant that would let them photograph 72-year-old Joseph DeAngelo`s naked body below the waist. A search warrant

his attorney tried desperately to protect him from. She argued that warrant was issued before his arrest. But according to The Sacramento Bee,

and according to accounts from some of the women he`s accused of raping, there`s a whole other reason DeAngelo doesn`t want anyone seeing his

private parts.

[19:40:18] With me now, CNN`s Dan Simon, he was in court for today`s hearing, and Caroline Polisi, defense attorney is with me. What is it Dan,

what do they know -- what do they know about the rapist that they think just might match DeAngelo?

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, first of all, Ashleigh, this was the second consecutive day that we`ve seen Joseph DeAngelo in court. And as

you said, what the defense wanted to do is they wanted to prevent the prosecution from getting a few things. They wanted to prevent the

prosecution from getting fingerprints, they wanted to prevent additional DNA, DNA swab, and also, they wanted to prevent the prosecution from

getting photographs. Now, why would that be, Ashleigh? Well, you`re talking about rape victims and it would be standard operating procedure for

police when talking to rape victims about what a man may look like physically down there, if you know what I mean. And according to some of

these women at the time, they reported that Joseph DeAngelo was not well endowed physically. So that is why, of course, they would want to get

these photographs. The judge is going to allow that to happen, presumably, it`s already taken place. They wanted to do this yesterday, but the

defense, as you said, fought them tooth and nail and the judge allowed it to happen today.

BANFIELD: Listen, this is a deadly serious case, and I understand that you`re, you know, mitigating the presentation of what that is. But I`m

going to give you another account that KFBK Radio`s Ryan Harris said. He said that some of the victims said that the rapist had an unusually small

penis. That`s what they said. They knew it because they suffered. And if there`s any kind of anatomy that they can identify on a killer or a rapist,

that counts. And while you`re, you know, trying to sort of deal with this, because this is a -- this is a series of murders, a series of rapes,

perhaps there`s a level of humiliation if he, in fact, is the Golden State Killer who thought he was so macho and powerful and held these women`s

lives, to hear the world finding out that, in fact, you`re not.

Caroline Polisi, is this an unusual -- is this an unusual request? How often is a rapist forced to have his penis photographed, how often is a

description of a small penis something that can actually lead to a conviction?

POLISI: Not very often, but in this instance, obviously, Ashleigh, as you noted, because we do have potentially prior victims explaining, sort of,

identifying factors about the person who committed this heinous act, this is probative, this is relevant. A judge is not going to grant this, you

know, the search or this, you know, very embarrassing, really an invasive procedure.

BANFIELD: Let`s just say humiliating.

POLISI: Humiliating.

BANFIELD: And say it again.

POLISI: Yes.

BANFIELD: Because it`s humiliating when you`re sitting there chained to your wheelchair and your DNA matches a bunch of rapes, over and over again,

it`s humiliating for the world to hear you have what`s quoted as an unusually small penis, if, in fact, you are the rapist.

POLISI: But a -- yes, a judge would not grant that order if it were not highly, highly probative of the question of guilt or innocence. So, I

think this could be sort of a big piece of evidence in this case.

BANFIELD: So Dan, the -- you know, for a lot of the people who are suffering, you know, from what this did to them, whether they lost a loved

one, whether, as you heard from that woman, they are living with the horror of the memory of his hot breath and the stink of him, I don`t even know if

this is any kind of small consolation, to humiliate him in a way they have felt so humiliated, wrongly so, but in a way that they have as well. I

want you to hear Mary Berwert, she was raped by the East Side Rapist when she was just 13. And this is what she has to say about the arrest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERWERT: I cried because finally I had a face. Now, I`m not wondering as I`m walking down the street, or going about my business doing work,

whatever I was doing, that I could be talking to that man. I don`t care that he`s old. I don`t care that he`s feeble. He -- I do care that he

sits and lives with it until the day he dies. He just needs to die with the weight of all of the pain of all of the families.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It`s real pain and real suffering. Dan Simon, we didn`t get any video today of him in court as they were talking about photographing his

penis and alleging that if he`s the rapist, the rapist had an unusually small penis. Did he look humiliated?

[19:45:02] SIMON: I`m not sure I would go that far, Ashleigh. I mean, he did seem to be paying attention to what the judge was saying and was also

watching what his attorneys were saying. He didn`t project this sort of dementia look that we saw last Friday. It is noteworthy, once again, to

point out that he`s still in this wheelchair, he`s handcuffed to the wheelchair, and, you know, obviously, a lot of people are questioning that.

Just in the days before he was arrested, he was seen riding his motorcycle, was going something like 100 miles an hour on the freeway, was doing work

around the house. So, the idea that he`s sort of physically disabled, Ashleigh, I think, flies in the face of all the evidence that we`ve seeing.

BANFIELD: Yes. Makes you often wonder too, what`s that 100-mile an hour motorcycle ride accommodating for. Just asking. Dan Simon, thank you for

that. Dan is going to continue doing the reporting on this case. Caroline Polisi is going to stay with me.

In Ohio, a mother accused of killing one of her children, gives birth to her 10th. That would be the day after pleading guilty to a food stamp

fraud, but that`s the least of her worries.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:26] BANFIELD: Without a doubt, the birth of a baby is one of the best days in anybody`s life. But you really have to wonder if that`s how

Larissa Rodriguez felt when she delivered her new baby girl, her 10th child, because the last time we saw Larissa, it was like this, at Cleveland

courtroom, and she looked like she was just about ready to pop. She`s been in jail since December after police found her 5-year-old special needs son

buried, dead in the backyard. She`s facing murder charges because of it and she`s being held on a $1 million bond. Last week, Larissa was in

court, and that`s when she was sentenced to six years in prison for selling her food stamps to a caseworker, and she immediately went into labor. And

the very next day, she was taken from the jail to deliver that baby girl. Rodriguez was immediately -- that baby of Rodriguez was immediately put

into foster care.

Caroline Polisi, it is such a fascinating thought that she is in prison, she can have that baby, go right back to her cell, but how often do they

get to keep the babies in prison with them?

POLISI: Well, there is actually a program in Ohio that allows for mothers that are delivering their children to have their children with them,

actually in the cell, in this tiny little cell. It`s 8x14 feet or something like that. But this defendant, unfortunately, Ashleigh, is not

going to be eligible for that. It has to be a sentence of under 36 months, and you have to be a non-violent offender. So, there goes that.

BANFIELD: So, here`s what`s interesting. She hasn`t been convicted of a murder yet. I mean, she might be. But there`s that food stamp thing,

which isn`t violent. So, she actually could have prevailed. She could have had this baby kept in the cell with her based on the non-violence.

POLISI: That`s 36 months.

BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) the fact is it`s a --

POLISI: Exactly. Six years.

BANFIELD: Yes, six-year sentence means sorry.

POLISI: You don`t want a 6-year-old, basically, in prison with their mother.

BANFIELD: Right.

POLISI: I mean, just too old, basically, to be in a cell.

BANFIELD: Yes. Makes sense. But look at that, in that appearance, you can tell she was -- she was ready and she`s had that 10th, 10th baby.

Was it a dream come true or some sort of morality issue? Something, not sure what it is, money everywhere. Holy cow. Was this a morality test?

Thousands of dollars blowing around on an Indiana highway? What would you do if you saw this? And it didn`t look like there was anyone around.

Would you take it? That`s next.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Last year, we shared this story of Coach Khali Sweeney, a top 10 CNN Hero from Detroit who uses boxing to lead kids on a path to academic

success. Well, his story of perseverance and sacrifices inspired a lot of people. But it really, really, struck a chord with one kid, a social

studies student from Alton, New Hampshire, who wrote him a letter, wrote Khali as part of an assignment, and she had absolutely no clue of the power

that she had to inspire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come up here for a second. Remember when he said that he wanted to Skype with us?

VALARIA RAMOS, STUDENT WHO WROTE THE LETTER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He decided to do a little more than that. Can I introduce Mr. Khali Sweeney from Downtown Boxing Gym and his program in

Detroit, Michigan?

RAMOS: I am so honored to meet him, meet somebody like Khali Sweeney who changes lives every single day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: To see the full story of Khali`s surprise or nominate somebody you think should be a CNN hero, please go to cnnheroes.com.

And we have "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, a real life money grab on an Indiana interstate. And the question I have for you tonight is, what would

you do?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) bank truck just dropped all of this money and people just came out here and was getting hell of money. Look at all

this money. You should have seen people getting off school buses getting this. Look at all this money. They all 20s. All this money right here.

This man came and got a bag of money, y`all. Look at this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Hell of money. I love her. The Brink`s driver, apparently, didn`t even know the backdoor was open and the money was flying out. So,

this trail was, like, really long. Money all over the place and nobody around. But the Indiana Police are now trying to track down, apparently,

missing hell of money, and they say that anybody who comes forward and turns in cash that they took will not be charged. But make no mistake, if

you`re sticky fingers are tracked down with those 20s in your hands, you will be charged with the missing cash. But have you answered that question

yet? What would you do? You don`t have to say i out loud. I think I know.

See you right back here again Monday night 6:00 Eastern.

Meantime, "Forensic Files" starts right now.

END