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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield

Female Serial Killer, Woman Kills Both Her Hubby And Secret Lover; Date From Hell, Woman Stalks Date, Sends 65,000 Texts; A Doctor Is Accused Of Killing A Salesman And His Wife; `Iron Man` Suit Worth $325,000 Stolen. Aired 6-8p ET

Aired May 10, 2018 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to "Crime and Justice".

Boyfriends, lovers and a husband who is dead. Is Kelly Cochran the newest installment of a twisted black widow with a dash of Hannibal Lecter on the

side? She is accusable being, her husband with heroine dismembering a lover before that. But that may not even be the sickest of her crimes.

Bernice Man, is covering the story, what else is she thought to have done?

BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Well, her family reportedly believes that she has killed even more victims. But did she set one of her

victims at a neighborhood barbecue? We`ll tell you what we know.

BANFIELD: Honestly. All right, we will get to those details shortly.

Also, here`s another tale of a woman whose love affairs could land her in prison. An Arizona woman who went on one date, one date, and ended up

stalking and breaking in, and threatening to bathe that date in his blood. Honest to god, these are the accusations, Michael Christian, careful who

you meet online. What are you finding out about this woman?

MICHAEL CHRISTIAN, SENIOR FIELD PRODUCER, HLN: Ashleigh, this woman pulled out all the stops of her pursuit of this guy, she apparently sent him

65,000 texts, up to 500 a day. She was caught on home surveillance breaking into his house, and police found her there taking a bath in his

bathtub. And we`ll tell you what cops found she had with her that day she broke into the house and also what she told his coworkers when she showed

up in hi work place.

BANFIELD: I think I`ve seen this story on orange is the new black if I`m not mistaken. I can`t wait to get into details in this if you, Michael,

standby.

We also have the hunt for a killer, after a young single mother who went missing on her way to work is found dead in her car, five months later.

And there was a very strange and curious clue that was left behind. I am going to tell you what it was, but who did this to her? Justin Freiman has

been working on this story. What kind of clue was left behind and what is the story all about?

JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: Well, Ashleigh, the actual car, her car, she is found in that car months after she disappeared, but of course

it was a very cold winter. So what kind of evidence could be in that car, or even on her body? We`ll look into it.

BANFIELD: Five months, sitting there apparently seeing a guy parking beside her every day, imagine what he is going through.

Also, tonight, red bull gives you wings, but not until you drink it. So we`re going to tell you about a guy, this guy, look at him, think he might

need a red bull? Look at him yawning with all that red bull in his cart. He stole $250 worth of this energy drink, looking like he desperately

needed it. We are going to fill you in on that story.

Also later, new suspicions about the South Carolina surgeon whose wife was just found dead. The doctor is now accused of lying to the police about

killing somebody else. Back in October. A surgeon. All those stories coming up.

First though that Michigan black widow who killed her lover and her husband and who may just have more victims buried across the Midwest. Kelly

Cochran is already spending the rest of her life behind bars after the co- worker, she was seeing on the side mysteriously disappeared back in 2014.

She got that victim, Chris Reagan to come over just for one last hookup. That is where her husband was lying in wait, all part of the plan with her,

then that husband shot him during the sexual encounter with his wife. And if that sounds weird, it is. Because the husband Jason and the wife Kelly

had apparently made a little pact on their wedding night that they would have to kill any lover with whom they cheated. Pretty romantic. Right?

Well, how about this next part? When Kelly told police that she watched her husband dismember her lover`s body with an electric hand saw, and then

dump the pieces in the woods. And then Kelly would later admit that she hated her husband for doing what they did. Which is how that husband also

now ended up dead, a year and a half later, a year and a half after the lover, the black widow takes another. She admitted it all to the police,

that she gave her husband a massive dose of heroin, and then straddled his body and choked him out. Though her initial call to 911 sure didn`t sound

like that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My husband`s his face is like blue. He is breathing, barely. I don`t know what`s wrong. He is throwing up, he is sweating. I

need an ambulance right away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Are you in a hotel? Is that a hotel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And how old is the person?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 37, just get an ambulance here, right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, stay on the line with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. You said he is breathing, difficulty breathing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Barely. Jason.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, I can`t understand what you`re saying. Difficulty breathing, sweating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is still breathing. I`m on the phone with them right now. OK, I need an ambulance here right away.

[18:05:05] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, they`ve been dispatched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`ve got to tend to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. They have been dispatched, but I need you to stay on the line.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Well, calls like that make you wonder how easy it is to lie, because if you believe what Kelly`s family tells us, she is been doing a

lot of lying. They say that lover Chris and that husband Jason just might not be her only victims, and they do use the word serial killer.

Joining me now, Crime and Justice Producer, Bernice Man, also Dr. Daniel Bober is with us, a forensic psychiatrist. Tim Gallagher is also with me,

a medical examiner and forensic pathologist and Parag Shah, defense attorney and author of "The Code."

All right. First things first, Bernice Man, honestly, she just coughed up all of this information. She just told the police I did it, once, I did it

twice, and she suggested she may have done it again. How did that happen?

MAN: That is right, Ashleigh. Well, she had a little bit of a thing for one of those detectives. I think that is kind of how she was able to tell

everything to that detective. But one of the police chiefs that was investigating this missing lover did say that Kelly admitted herself that

there might be other victims.

BANFIELD: She just said -- first of all, let me get this straight. She is getting cozy, because she thinks the detective is cute or things maybe they

might have something together, she is been hauled in for despicable murdered, for dismemberment, and she is getting cozy with the detective.

MAN: Yes. She, you know the former police chief thinks that she had a little bit of an attraction, a connection. And that is how this detective

was able to pull everything out of Kelly.

Bana Well, you know what, use what you got. Hats off to the detective. Is this him in the picture here with the grey hair? We know -- I know she was

interviewed by a lot of different people, but is this him?

MAN: We do believe so.

BANFIELD: And he held her hand a bunch of times, too, didn`t he? He really reached out to her and made her feel comfortable, didn`t he?

MAN: Yes, he held her hand, and would -- he said that he talked to her almost 40 interviews, 70 hours of -- and 70 hours of conversations building

that connection with her.

BANFIELD: OK. So before they actually get to the death of the husband, the police kind of suspected this woman all along of the murder of the

boyfriend. At least they sure had her in their sights as well. Listen, this is from "Crime Watch Daily," I want you to hear the former Iron River

Police Chief, Laura Frizzo, on her theory of all this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA FRIZZO, FORMER IRON RIVER POLICE CHIEF: My theory was that these two people were responsible for Chris Reagan`s disappearance, definitely

believed that they murdered him and that they were going to try to get away with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: They murdered him, they thought they would get away with it. And you remember that weird thing I told you right off the top, about the

pact they made, I don`t know what vows you gave when you got married or what vows you plan to give, if you`re going to get married, but I`ll bet

it`s not a vow like the one the Iron County Prosecuting Attorney, Melissa Powell is talking about. Again, "Crime Watch Daily" gave us this amazing

clip. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA POWELL, IRON COUNTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: When they got married they made this pact that if one of them were to have an affair that they

had to kill the person that they had the affair with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: And again, it is so difficult to get this information out of killers. They usually don`t just cough it all up, unless, of course,

you`re sitting next to Detective Ogden? And apparently he has got some special spell over Kelly. Have a look at again what the police

interrogation yielded. And you can hear Detective Ogden at work. Well, he is getting her to admit all this to the police. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMY OGDEN, HOBART POLICE DEPARTMENT: I know that. So he completely dismembered Chris in the basement?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So that is a really weird -- that is a really weird thing, you just dismembered Chris in the basement? Bernice, she actually just -- she

told them everything, she took them to the basement, she pointed out line by line and hack by hack and bone by bone, didn`t she?

MAN: She did. You know, she said that her husband was lying in wait when they were in the bedroom together and that he shot her in the head and that

he brought her -- he brought Chris`s body to the basement with an electric hand saw, dismembered her -- dismembered him and then dumped the body in

the woods.

BANFIELD: OK. So I want to make sure we get the right moment here, this whole notion where she talks about two men dying in her arms. I mean, she

is literally admitting, I`m a black widow to this police detective. Again, hats off to Detective Ogden for being able to get all this out of her. But

I want to ask the control man if we can roll that soundbite three. I think this is where she truly just admits both of these murders, just coughs it

right up. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY COCHRAN, THE BLACK WIDOW: I had two men die in my arms.

[18:10:00] OGDEN: I know that. So he completely dismembered Chris in the basement?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

See that? Look again closely. Look how he is holding her hands. Now, want to hear the moment where she actually gives them a tour through the

basement? This again from "Crime Watch Daily," it is a crime scene video where they often do this, they take the perp or the suspect to the site and

say tell us everything. Remember how the police always hold onto something, only the killer would know, that is probably exactly what they

were doing here, have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- to hear, somewhat you were telling me, right around in this area, and that is where he cut him up.

What was the biggest piece of bone be that you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The torso.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The torso, that was here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then we should find ribs. And I think that generally --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The skull should be the biggest though.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Dr. Daniel Bober, listen, usually I get you on the show to explain, well, how do you find the person who did these horrible things? I

don`t typically have you on the show to say what kind of woman just sort of says it all, because she thinks the detective is cute and likes him holding

her hands?

DANIEL BOBER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Ashleigh, this woman is cold, cunning and calculated. This was quite a way to start off a marriage unless you`re

having your wedding at San Quentin. This is a woman who participated in the crime with her husband, and it actually reminds me very much of a case

in Canada, the Paul Bernardo case, where the husband and wife actually participated in the crime, and you know, did it to basically get rid of the

victim, so that no one would know about it.

So, I think that this is obviously, we know at least that she did it two times, and probably before, I don`t know if it meets the classic definition

of a serial killer. For example, the FBI defines a serial killer as three or more murders with over a 30-day period, with an emotional cooling off

period, but she certainly has some very deviant, psychological motives for these killings.

BANFIELD: I can`t believe you reached that far back into -- honestly when I was a reporter, Dr. Bober, that was one of the first time I ever covered,

Paul Bernardo and his wife Karla Teale. Karla Homolka.

BOBER: Homolka, right.

BANFIELD: You don`t make that, oh god, if you don`t know this crime. I`m not going to cover it right now. I have too much to do on this segment.

You got to google that one. Paul Bernardo, he is in prison for life in Canada for raping and murdering school girls with his wife, and guess who

else? Her sister. It was the most hideous crime. And she is out. She got 12 years and a deal before they found the tapes. They didn`t need her

testimony, because they found the tapes after they made the deal with Karla Homolka. So, she is out and the word is she is somewhere -- in South

America.

BOBER: It is very disturbing.

BANFIELD: It is so disturbing -- you nailed it. It is very disturbing and very similar, when a husband and a wife participate. Do you ever expect

that the wife is then going to off the husband later on?

BOBER: Well, that is something I`ve never seen before. But you know, we see crimes like this before where you have two personality types where

maybe one of them as individuals would not commit a crime. But you take the two of them together and they manage to push themselves over the edge

to commit murder.

BANFIELD: OK. So real quickly, let me just play the sentencing, the prosecutor and the judge in the courtroom at her sentencing. And this is

for the -- I have to tell you, it`s for the first one, for the lover. Because, you know, there`s a couple of murders and deaths and sentences

we`re dealing with here. But here`s the sentencing and what the prosecutor and the judge had to say to this black widow, ala monster in court. Take a

look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It recognizes the atrocities committed by Kelly Cochran and her husband when they butchered Chris Reagan and threw him in

the woods like a common sack of garbage. They finally, finally laid to rest Chris Reagan`s soul and give solace and comfort to his family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are sentenced to the Michigan Department of Corrections for a period of life without the possibility of parole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Life without the possibility of parole, thank you, Jesus, toe tag parole, she is not going out until she has a tag on her toe. Parag

Shah, that is great. I`m glad to hear that. But this is weird, apparently to get her plea agreement in the second murder of her husband, the state of

Indiana cannot charge Kelly for any other potential murders even though she is suggested there`s many more victims and her brother says, she is a

serial killer. Is that shocking to you?

PARAG SHAH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s not shocking, because the sentence would possibly all run concurrently. She`d still get life without parole.

But if she is charged -- or if she is committed murders in other states, this does not preclude other states from bringing charges against her, for

those googling the other crime, they should google this word, dual sovereignty doctrine, which is an acceptance exception to double jeopardy

which says that --

[18:15:00] BANFIELD: Wow.

SHAH: -- another state can charge you for the same murder if it was committed in two separate states.

BANFIELD: It is a nice insurance policy in case there`s some weird appeal. OK, I can`t go before I just get Bernice to do a 10 seconds on this whole

barbecue business. The neighbors, they suspected Bernice, that she served body parts to the men as barbecue. Is this true? Is this ruler, is it

lore?

MAN: You know, this has been reported that neighbors say that they do think that Kelly served the lover`s remains to them.

BANFIELD: And yet we think as well that the lover`s remains were in the woods. It`s all disgusting and she is exactly where she needs to be.

Thank you to all my guests. I have a question. I`m sure that you do a lot on your phone, right? You probably do dating on your phone. But have you

ever had a dating experience like this?

A woman accused of stalking, and sending 65,000 text messages to the guy she had one date with who really wasn`t interested, and that is just the

tip of the iceberg.

[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: All right. You know, follow-up texts is par for the course after you`ve gone on a date with somebody. But 65,000 texts might be a

little much. Because 65,000 texts is what an Arizona woman is accused of firing off after going on one date with a man she met online, one date.

That was back in 2017. And this is Jacqueline Addis, she was obsessed, she is not going to let this guy go. As evidence by some of the texts that she

sent, we got ahold of them. She said that -- like, Oh, what I would do with your blood. I`d want to bathe in it. Yeah, I don`t think you`re

going to get another date out of that one. The reality of the bath, though, got a whole lot closer to home when the victim who was out of the

country went to do what we all do, you know, we check on our home surveillance system if you`ve got that remotely, looking on your phone, and

guess who he saw in his house, saw Jacqueline.

So he called the police. Guess what they found Jacqueline? In his bathtub, having a bath. They also found a butcher knife on the front seat

of her car. And then they went ahead and they charged Jacqueline with criminal trespassing. But even that did not stop Jacqueline, because last

Friday she showed up at his office and said I`m -- hi, I`m his wife. Now she is finally behind bars. And she is charged with stalking, threatening

and harassment.

Joining me now is Perry Vandell, he is a reporter with the Arizona Republic. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist is back with me, Parag

Shaw is also with me again, defense attorney and author of "The Code."

OK, first things first, Perry, is there any chance that she could get out again? Because she is already done something once, the whole get into his

bath while he is not there business. She did not get put behind bars for that. She is back out, she goes to his office, now she is locked up.

Could she get bail?

PERRY VANDELL, REPORTER, THE ARIZONA REPUBLIC: No, she does not get bail. She ended up being arrested by Scottsdale -- or sorry, by Paradise Valley

police with a failure to appear warrant, and because she failed to appear at that previous -- to the numerous court hearings, she will not be able to

pay for bail and get out this time.

BANFIELD: OK. There were a couple of other things that she did as well, these are all allegations, but there`s a lot of evidence to back this stuff

up. She was outside his house a couple of times as well, and I think it was in a car, sitting outside watching, what were the circumstances?

VANDELL: Yes. So about last summer, apparently the victim said that he saw her parked outside of his car, and he called Paradise Valley police who

escorted her off the property, according to court documents. It doesn`t appear that they arrested her for trespassing, or anything like that,

during that particular instance. But it was, I believe, the first noted instance of her showing up at his residence.

BANFIELD: OK. So I want to read a couple more of these texts. By the way, I`m not going to read all 65,000 of them. Because even a 24 hour news

network could not possibly fit those all in, but I`m telling you, when I read them, they weren`t funny, and they weren`t cute, they were really

scary, and they were also nasty. So you already heard the one about, you know, wanting to bathe in the blood, but there`s this as well.

She was trying to lure him to come and see her. And by doing that she thought this would work, you do whatever you have to do to get here, but

don`t ever try to leave me. I`ll kill you. I don`t want to be a murderer. And this other text is even more sinister. I hope you die, you rotten,

filthy Jew, lol. I`m like the new Hitler, man was genius. Do you have any other examples or at least the characterizations of the rest of the text

messages?

VANDELL: And so there are -- there was another one where she talked about wearing body parts on her, on herself according to the court documents.

Those were pretty much the ones that were included in the probable cause statement.

[18:25:12] So I`m sure there were plenty of others, or there could have been plenty of others. The police said that many of the texts were

threatening in nature, and according to the documents police say that a lot of texts started to take a more threatening turn after he called the police

on her when he found out she was at his home.

BANFIELD: Yes. Well guess what, so we heard, you know, if somebody sees the remote camera and you are in their bathtub, I would call the police.

That is not something you should blame him for. I have to tell you, Perry I just got a tape in. Apparently this young woman has decided while she is

behind bars she wants to give a press conference. It`s not a good idea. It`s never a good idea. But she went ahead and just did it, I guess, in

the last few moments. We`re just getting the tape in. I haven`t heard it or haven`t seen it. Can I ask our control room, do we have the tape? Did

it feed in yet? All right. Let me roll what we found. And Perry, if you haven`t already heard it, you can listen right along. Let us listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you break into his home?

JACQUELINE ADES, ACCUSED OF STALKING: Wow, I`d rather not talk about those things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the text messages?

ADES: I`d rather not talk about those things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you text him 65,000 times?

ADES: Because he made me find out all my information. Loving him selflessly brought this information, because everybody just wants to take.

But if you just give and you don`t stop giving, even if you don`t receive, you all of the sudden receive a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: No, you don`t, you receive a term behind bars. That is what you receive if you send someone 65,000 text messages. That is what you receive

if you get yourself into their bathtub and if you boil a bunny. Because I`ve got to be honest, the minute I heard this, I thought of that movie in

the `80s that no man could ever get out of his mind, where Michael Douglas cheated on his wife with Glenn Close, and then Glenn Close went nuts. If

you don`t remember it, this was the key scene, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what you`re up to. But I`m going to tell you it`s going to stop right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it`s not going to stop, it`s going to go on and on until you face up to your responsibilities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What responsibilities?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m pregnant, I`m going to have our child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alex that is your choice. That has nothing to do with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to be a part of your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, this is the way you do it, huh, showing up at my apartment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What am I supposed to do, you won`t answer my calls, you change your number, I`m not going to be ignored, Dan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That was one of my favorite lines ever, I will not be ignored, Dan. Because it`s disturbing. And finding some other disturbing things

that this young woman is saying from the jailhouse. Let us roll the rest of what we just got in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You talk about how you felt when you were with him, did you feel a spark immediately? Talk about how you felt.

ADES: I felt like I met my soul mate. Everything was just the way it was and I thought we would do what everybody else did and we would just get

married and everything would be fine, but that is not what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 65,000 text messages, that is not --

ADES: -- more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Dr. Bober, you got to jump in on this, she gave a jailhouse interview that has just never a good idea. A press conference, she said

that she was scared by this guy. We`re not saying his name, by the way, because he is a victim in all of this. She said she was scared, because he

called the police on her from out of the country when he saw her on his home surveillance getting into his bathtub. What kind of a person are we

dealing with her, Dr. Bober?

BOBER: Must have been quite a first date there, Ashleigh, but I do think, she probably came on a little too strong. You know, it`s interesting most

stalkers are men. But this type of a stalker is someone who has a lot of risk factors for violence. The most significant risk factor is the fact

that she actually entered his home, and was in his bathtub. The fact that there was a butcher knife in the car, and of course all the violent

statements. The movie that you showed, "Fatal Attraction" was an absolutely brilliant example of a personality disorder called borderline

personality disorder, and in the mental health field this is the movie that we refer to.

People with borderline personality disorder, if this is in fact what she has are people who have chronic feelings of emptiness, a fear of

abandonment, a fear of rejection, and they have an extremely volatile and labile mood and can act out violently if they feel like they`re being

rejected.

BANFIELD: So, I`m glad you mentioned that, the "Fatal Attraction" movie you refer to it. Because I feel though, generally speaking most people

refer to the fear that was instilled in them by that movie. It was sort of this breakout plot that no one had seen before, really, you know, in modern

times about just how dangerous it can be just to have a one-night stand.

To be clear, we don`t know the extent of the one date that they had. And let me make sure, you know, Perry, do we know anything about the details?

Was it a dinner gone wrong? Or did it get sexier than that? Do I still have Perry? Do I have him on the line?

VANDELL (via telephone): I`m sorry, go ahead.

BANFIELD: Do we know in any of the court documents, how serious was this date? Did they sleep together? Was this, you know, did this wind her up? Or

was it sort of dinner that he realized that you are not my type, I`m out?

VANDELL (via telephone): So the court documents say that they went on a single date. During this interview with the press, she said that they went

on three dates.

And so -- but at the same time, if police are saying that she was outside his home or outside his business telling -- shouting that she was his wife,

which isn`t true, then I suppose, you know, it throws into question exactly what actually happened in this case.

It sounds like the man is telling police that they went on a single date and after that he didn`t really want to talk to her anymore.

BANFIELD: I can imagine if she sent 65,000 texts, that his word may be better than hers. So for those of you watching who are too old to remember

"Fatal Attraction" or it didn`t resonate with you because you were like six, I`ll bet you watched "Orange Is The New Black," and I`ll bet you know

the scene that I am about to tell you about, right?

Had to do with a wedding dress and a crazy inmate in love with a guy that she thought was her fiance when he wasn`t her fiance, and she broke into

his house and after the break, you`re going to see the scene, and there`s a reason I want to show it to you, because the television have much to do

with this. That`s next.

[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Message about online dating. If you go on a date with someone and he doesn`t call you back, don`t send him 65,000 texts, don`t sit

outside his house, don`t go to his place of work pretending to be his wife, and don`t have a butcher knife on the seat of your car when you go to visit

him.

Those are all bad things and they will land you with a few bad charges, like they did this young woman named Jacqueline Ades in Arizona.

And if all of what you heard sounds like a TV show, especially "Orange Is The New Black" TV show, where inmates all have this friend named Lorna

Morello who tells them that her fiance is Christopher, but it turns out Christopher was a guy she was obsessed with. She broke into his house. She

had a bath in his bathtub.

That`s the same thing that happened with this woman, Jacqueline Ades. Take a look at the clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Hey, Angela. Angela? (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, it turns out when the police got to the home of this victim, they found Jacqueline Ades in his bathtub. Dr. Bober, really quickly, I

wanted to watch that clip because it made me wonder if sometimes people get ideas from TV shows and they get plot lines and they do these things. It

sounded remarkably similar to that scene.

BOBER: Well, you know, I think a show like that would resonate with this person. And, you know, why they enter the home is because they want to feel

closer to the victim, right?

They have no sense of control over the situation. And this is the last shred of control they have over the victim and the only way they could feel

close to them because the victim has rejected them.

BANFIELD: I think we might have another clip that came into our control room from her, weird press conference. The inmate gave a press conference

along the last hour or two. We`re getting it in piece by piece. Let`s listen to the most recent piece we got.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): So you`ve been in Arizona five months?

JACQUELINE ADES, ACCUSED OF STALKING: I think so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): But you`ve known him for over a year now, right?

ADES: Yeah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): OK, so, did you --

ADES: I was traveling around, and I told him I was in California, I wanted to stay in California. And it was while we were still kind of talking

before, because I scared him.

[18:40:03] So while we were still talking, I told him that if he ever blocked me, that I would come and move here. So he blocked me, so I came

here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Parag Shah, I`d like you to come in and weigh in on this from a defense attorney standpoint. Look, I don`t know if she`s got a lawyer yet.

I don`t know if she`s got a court-appointed lawyer who`s headed her way. I don`t know if anyone has been able to tell this young woman, do not do

this, do not speak publicly to cameras, you are in a lot of trouble.

Does this press conference hurt her in that way, or in a strange twist might it help her because it shows that she is severely mentally ill,

perhaps?

SHAH: In a strange twist, I think it does help. I mean, Boyonce said it right, crazy in love. And this woman, the defense is love made her crazy.

And the way to handle this case is to deal with mitigation.

Get her a mental health evaluation, figure out what`s going on, what`s the diagnoses, and how can we help her? And that`s the way to go. Can we get

her treatment? Can we get her back on the right track because prison is not the place for mental health individuals. And so, you know, the more crazy

she sounds actually might help her.

BANFIELD: So, I want to play her court appearance, if I can, just after she got arrested. And let`s not forget, she`s been arrested a couple of

times. The first time she was arrested, she was sitting outside his house and he was concerned about it. He had called the police about it.

Then he goes out of town and she goes and breaks into his house and gets in the bathtub. He sees it on the remote cameras. He sees the remote cameras

and she`s in his house. And when the police get there, she`s in the bathtub. And then let`s not forget, she went to the place of work. So she`s

arrested a second time.

And this time, you will hear something interesting when it comes to the moment where it`s all about bail. Will she be able to make bail or will

there be any bail? Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Can I have your full name and your date of birth.

ADES: Jacqueline Ades. December 31st, 1986.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): All right, thank you. You`re here on a new case under warrant.

ADES: Yes, I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): You`ve been arrested. I need to tell you why you`re here, so hold on. You got arrested on allegations of stalking as

a class five felony, threatening and intimidating as a class six felony, and harassment by communication as a class one misdemeanor. You are not

legally entitled to bond. You will be held without bond in this jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Parag Shah, no bond. I guess I get it because she`s somewhat dangerous to this man. But at the same time bond is something that we give

because you have the presumption of innocence.

And as long as you`re not a flight risk, usually that`s what the bond is all about. You know, there`s a formula. Are you wealthy? Do you have your

own personal plane? You have to surrender your passport. Why no bond though in this one?

SHAH: From my understanding from what the reporter said is that she had a prior failure to appear. So she`s already shown some unwillingness to come

to court. And then second, another factor that`s weighed heavily is, is she a danger to the community or intimidating, in this case, the victim?

And she has already shown that after that criminal trespass, she went back. She`s still continuously harassing and threatening. And so it is a

significant reason to deny bail. And I think, you know, the main thing here is to try to see if she can get some treatment while she`s in there.

BANFIELD: Yeah, thank god. You know, John Doe, we`re not releasing his name, obviously he is a victim in all of this, he is probably breathing a

sigh of relief while she`s locked away with no bail.

But Dr. Bober, look, these charges do not come with a life sentence, all right. It`s threatening and intimidating, stalking, harassment, and

criminal trespass. It might be, I don`t know, a year or two. And then she gets out. So what then for this man who is likely in fear of his life?

There was a butcher knife on the seat of her car.

BOBER: Well, you know, Ashleigh, you talk about crazy in love. But I think the crazy came before the love. And so this is someone who when they are

released into the community is going to need a lot of court-ordered very tight controls. She`s going to need mandatory -- probably psychiatric

treatment and counseling.

And they`re going to need to keep her on a very short leash. If she doesn`t comply with the court orders, she`s going to have to be back in custody for

the safety of the community.

BANFIELD: Yeah. Perry Vandell, do you know what the next step is? What is happening with her? When is her next appearance? And I guess, what are we

going to be able to see and hear about?

VANDELL (via telephone): So, she is scheduled to appear -- let me pull that up.

BANFIELD: Sorry to put you on the spot like that. It might be somewhere. I`m just looking at the same time. Is it May 18? Is that wrong?

VANDELL (via telephone): I believe it`s May 18.

BANFIELD: I got it here, May 18, that`s her next. We`ll check in then and find out what the status is, and whether she is getting any help. My thanks

to Perry Vandell and also Dr. Bober.

[18:45:02] And Parag Shah, I`m going to ask you to stick around because I do have one more segment.

When it comes to superheroes, they are usually on the right side of the law. So this is a serious question. Why then is the LAPD scouring the city

high and low, looking for "Iron Man?" Not a joke.

[18:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Tony Stark AKA "Iron Man" is looking for his trade mark suit tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNSHOTS)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I could just watch that all night. We don`t even need to do the rest of the show. We`ll just play "Iron Man" clips. The reason I`m showing

it to you is because the suit that he`s wearing right there in that movie, Robert Downey Jr., it`s been stolen.

The 2008 movie suit, someone went and robbed it from an L.A. movie prop warehouse. The police say it vanished sometime between February and late

April. I guess it was just sitting there, right, all that time, no one knew it was gone.

The L.A. Times says that that suit, in case you`re wondering, isn`t just plastic. It`s worth a lot of money, $325,000. Of course, that`s a far cry

from the more than half billion dollars in ticket sales that the movie earned at the box offices. But $325K is a lot of money for a costume.

You can bet your bottom dollar that a virtual army of superheroes is hot on the trail for that "Iron Man" suit and whoever made off with it. I don`t

want to see the other guy after they catch him. I hope they catch him.

Parag Shah, it`s an adorable story, but man, is it a big crime. We`re not talking about some cute theft, $325,000. If they catch the person, what

kind of sentence is that?

SHAH: He`s going to face some serious time because you`ve got burglary charges and, you know, potentially trying to sell it on some black market.

But here`s the other thing. He was dumb for stealing it but whoever buys it is even dumber.

BANFIELD: What happens?

SHAH: Because you can be charged with buying stolen property if you know or should know it is stolen. Obviously if someone is trying to sell you an

"Iron Man" suit, you know it`s stolen.

BANFIELD: Can I ask you something?

SHAH: Yes.

BANFIELD: It`s all about the mens rea, right, that intent.

SHAH: Right.

BANFIELD: Your criminal mind, your intent. What if someone just liked the movie "Iron Man" wants to buy it for, you know, present for his kid and

buys it and truly does not know that it was stolen, can they make a case for that?

SHAH: So what has to be proved is, should you have known? So, the common case is, someone tries to sell you a car. And the ignition is taken out.

The steering wheel is broken. There`s a screwdriver in the ignition. All those things should tell you, you know what, this car is probably stolen.

So if there`s something with the suit that alerts the person, oh man, you know, there`s something funny about this, then yes, they could be charged.

But if there`s nothing about it and it looks normal and it`s something that you find on eBay, then OK.

BANFIELD: I want Robert Downey Jr. go get on the case for some weird reason. I just want him to do this and go out and catch the guy.

SHAH: All of them, Captain America and everybody, bring them all out there.

BANFIELD: Because he is one of the "Avengers," right?

SHAH: Yes.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Parag. OK, hold on because coming up next, we have this caper of the yawning caffeinated drink thief. He is so exhausted in

the surveillance photos. I think he may be getting a new title, rip van red bull. You have to see the pictures, which you will, right after this.

[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: When this week`s CNN hero saw children begging in the streets of Vietnam, he went from tourist to altruist. He left his home in New York to

work in Vietnam, giving young people the skills to rise out of poverty. I would like you to meet Neal Bermas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEAL BERMAS, CNN HERO: The young people in our program come from the whole country with all kinds of very, very difficult pasts. We have kids with HIV

background, kids from leprosy villages. Some have been trafficked, sometimes more than once.

You`ll do great.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAS: Within a couple years, no matter how difficult and how painful, how tortured their life may have been, with 100 percent assurance, I know

that that young person is going to be starting a career with all kinds of possibilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Go to "CNN Heroes" to watch the full story or nominate somebody that you think should be one of our CNN heroes.

One more thing to talk to you about tonight. Talk about stealing what you need. Wisconsin police are looking for this young man in this picture,

surveillance shots, you see him pushing a shopping cart, shopping cart is full of Red Bull. But you notice the guy? Look at his face. He can`t stop

yawning. He`s yawning in almost every one of the pictures.

Police say he was stealing this highly caffeinated drink and about $250 worth of it too. This just happened a couple days ago. They think he`s

still out there somewhere, maybe having a nap near you or sharing a Red Bull with you. Nonetheless, it`s kind of ironic to see the yawning and the

Red Bull.

Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): A South Carolina surgeon`s wife found dead in her home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Did you consider the death of -- suspicious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Yes.

[19:00:00] UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): It just doesn`t make sense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Two days later, the doctor is charged with manslaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): It was shocking to find out. Interactions with them were very positive on the outside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): But he`s not charged in her death.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That residence was familiar to us because of an incident that occurred in October of 2017.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s charged with killing another man months earlier.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He actually pointed the gun at Mr. Holland and shot him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators are asking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These incidents are related. They are not random.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegation are allegations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One date with a man she meets online results in 65,000 text messages. Things like, don`t ever try to leave me, I`ll kill

you. I want to wear your body parts and bathe in your blood. And that`s not all. Police say she breaks in and takes an actual bath in this his

home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You got arrested on allegations of stalking, a class five felony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you haven`t even heard the half of it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. Thanks for joining us in the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.

Great stories, great names, a tale of two cities, citizen came, and you might even remember from high school "death of a salesman." But sometimes,

life imitates art. Because tonight we have the case of the real death of a salesman who probably did not intend to die in the bedroom of a colleague.

Ironically, the story takes place in a town called Casey, South Carolina where the motto is, time for life. And the story takes place in a house

where not one person died, two people died. The first one was that young salesman, this guy, William Holland. He was a visitor in that house. But

he ended up shot in the chest in the bedroom. That was back in October, in the home of his colleague, right after wrapping up a business trip.

And then weirdly the second person to die is this woman who also lived in that house who was the wife of the colleague. Are you seeing a pattern?

Her name is Vanessa Berry, she was found dead last week, and we still don`t know how she died. But police are starting to connect some dots and they

are starting to connect the deaths. And that`s probably not too tough considering they both happened in the same house.

And it`s while they were investigating her death from just last week that they came to determine the salesman`s suspected killer, and it`s Vanessa`s

husband, this guy. See the white coat? He just so happens to be a doctor, Dr. Adam Lazzarini, a well-known, well-respected surgeon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ADAM LAZERINI, SURGEON: Hello. My name is Dr. Lazzarini. I am a hip and knee surgeon who specialized in primary innovations hip replacement and

knee replacement as well as (INAUDIBLE). I trained at the New York medical college and did a fellowship at the hospital for special surgery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: All that sounds great, except that Dr. Lazzarini was just arrested for William`s death and he was charged with involuntary

manslaughter. I will get to that in a minute. But police say he lied about the shooting of that colleague in his bedroom. Though several people

were supposedly in the home at the time. I know. I`m with you. I find it very confusing.

One of the people in the home at the time that that colleague died was this woman, Vanessa. She is also dead, remember. And she might have been the

one who reported that initial shooting of the colleague to the police before she wound up dead herself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would you consider the death of Ms. Biery suspicious?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Yes, I do too, obviously. Two people dead in the same house. And I still don`t know really how any of these circumstances actually

transpired.

Joining me now is Dave Priest is a morning show host with Hot Talk 99.5 FM. Jonathan Harvey is the attorney for Adam Lazzarini. Lots of questions for

you. Maureen O`Connell is former FBI special agent and president and CEO of Maureen O`Connell and associates. And Parag Shah, defense attorney and

author of "the code" still with me.

Lots of questions for all of you. And I`m going to starting with you Dave because I hope you can piece together some of it. Do I have this right,

that back in October a salesman dies in their house in the bedroom, gunshot wound to the chest, no arrests, nothing suspicious there. And then just

last week they find this wife dead, and they don`t know how she died, but only now is the husband being arrested for the death back in October.

Explain to me the missing pieces here.

DAVE PRIEST, MORNING SHOW HOST, HOT TALK 99.5 FM: There are a lot of missing pieces there. As you said, it didn`t seem suspicious at first, at

least police with the initial death last October of William Holland said that it was accidental. And there was no hint of any kind of foul play.

This was just several days and several weeks after the death happened in October of last year. And then for some reason, after the death last week

of Dr. Lazzarini`s wife, Vanessa, all the sudden now they have all this additional information, enough to charge him with involuntary manslaughter

for the first death from last October.

[19:05:19] BANFIELD: OK. So work with me on the October thing. Because the only facts we know is that this salesman, William Holland, is at this

home. And by the way, it looks like a pretty nice place. They obviously make some good money. He is an orthopedic surgeon, for heaven`s sake,

trained in New York, and a really fancy -- worked at a fancy out let in New York too. They are considered to be a real power couple.

So October, there are several people in the home. He ends up shot in the chest in the bedroom. See, to me, that`s just weird. To me that`s an

automatic arrest of somebody. But there were other people in the house.

Do we have any information about what was going on in that house when he ended up shot and why there were no arrests that came of it?

PRIEST: Well, with several people in the house on a weekend, it just appears as though maybe it was a gathering, a get together of some sort,

the individual who was killed was a sales person for an orthopedic supply company and being an orthopedic surgeon, the two of those obviously knew

each other. Was this a get together of a supplier with a possible buyer, maybe?

But as you said there were plenty of people who were in the house at that point in time, several people said they were witnesses. And as you alluded

to earlier, one of the witnesses that tried to come forward that day was the wife Vanessa.

BANFIELD: But did somebody suggest he shot himself and they just bought it? I mean, it sounds so weird to me.

PRIEST: Well, again, originally police, as of just a few days after the shooting, said there was no appearance of any foul play and they classified

it as an accidental shooting. Somehow.

BANFIELD: Wow.

PRIEST: Seven months later they decided to switch that around and again charge Dr. Lazzarini with involuntary manslaughter saying that he was the

one who pointed the gun at the chest of William Holland and pulled the trigger.

Now, additional information that`s come out and just release that Dr. Lazzarini had been drinking that night, don`t know to what extent, but

that`s another piece of the puzzle.

BANFIELD: That is never good.

OK. Now, here`s what`s more bizarre. And it is very complicated so stay with me. When William Holland was shot and they classified it as an

accidental shooting and no one got charged, even though he was in the bedroom, which is w weird. Their past seven months up until last week when

wife shows up in the dead in the house and we don`t know how and that`s weird and I`ll get to that in a moment.

But whatever the investigators found when they were looking into the death of this woman, Vanessa Biery, the surgeon`s wife, made them charge the

husband with the death from seven months ago.

What did they find? What on earth, Dave, did they find while they were investigating the death of this beautiful bride that made them finally say

I don`t think that was an accident seven months ago?

PRIEST: Well, That again is one of those $64,000 questions, another huge piece of the puzzle. Because at this point in time, it`s been nine days

since Vanessa`s death, but according to the coroner, they are still saying it`s just suspicious. Know exactly what it is. She died of unknown

circumstances. The police say it`s suspicious. The autopsy results, even though it`s been nine days, are still pending. So we don`t know what`s

going on.

BANFIELD: So my mind races all over the place because that`s what I do for a living. And I`m sorry if I don`t make sense most of the time. But I do

try to think through these confusing mysteries. And one of the things I thought right away is why is the salesman -- granted he is an orthopedic

surgeon and a salesman who sells those kinds of things, they might have a relationship, right. But why is he in their bedroom? That`s just kind of

weird.

And then why would a second person show up dead after he was accidentally shot in their bedroom and that happens to be a wife? And so, I think

there`s an affair. Right, I think for -- right away I think the police come in and they see some evidence of an affair and that`s why maybe this

guy was shot and that`s why they have arrested the surgeon. But we don`t have any evidence and they sure aren`t saying anything. The police are

very tight-lip.

But here is someone who is saying something about the relationship between poor William Holland who is dead and Vanessa Biery, who is dead, and of

course Dr. Lazzarini who is arrested. This is the lawyer for Mr. Holland`s family, the victim`s family, this is what they think about the relationship

between their dead loved one and that doctor. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TEM MILES, ATTORNEY FOR WILLIAM HOLLAND`S FAMILY: Any sales person who has a client that they are trying to foster a relationship with is going to

have, to some extent, a personal relationship with them, there being a close friendship between them. The family is unaware of that. I`m unaware

of that. We have seen no evidence to support that. It was simply a professional relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: It was simply a professional relationship. That`s what the lawyer for the guy who has got the dog in the fight, right, for the family

of the dead salesman. That`s what the lawyer says.

But at the same time, nothing adds up. He accidentally shot himself? In October? But now since the wife is dead, police don`t think it was such an

accident anymore?

Here`s that same lawyer talking about sort of the series of events, and how it transpired, have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:10:15] MILES: First, Dr. Lazzarini said that Mr. Holland had accidentally shot himself. Through the charging affidavit we have learned

that`s not the case. That Dr. Lazzarini actually pointed the gun at Mr. Holland and shot him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Maureen O`Connell, you are one of the smartest people I know, you know. You don`t get to be an FBI special agent for nothing. So tell

me what your senses tell you. And if you are still on the job, what you and your FBI friends would you be doing right now?

MAUREEN O`CONNELL, FORMER FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Well, I think a couple of things are clear. As the other guest has mentioned, there are many

questions that are unanswered. But one thing that makes sense to me is that all the witnesses that were there for the initial shooting in October,

all pretty much came up with the same story. So the police didn`t really have a reason to question whether or not it was an accident because they

were all singing from the same sheet of music.

However, when the second incident occurred, one of the first things I`m going to do is look through the text messages and there was probably back

and forth text messages between the victim and her husband where she is making claims about what happened back in October. And as a result of

that, they have asked the FBI to assist because in looking at the Web site of the police department there, there`s like 12 firefighters and 40 police

officers that work this whole town. So their resources may be limited.

BANFIELD: The resources are light.

O`CONNELL: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Look. I get it, the whole text message thing, it doesn`t take seven months to do that. You would think it`s weird. The salesman is in

the bedroom. That`s weird.

O`CONNELL: Well, what if he was a house guest?

BANFIELD: I totally get it, but again, the bedroom? It`s just a strange place. There`s a lot of weirdness to it, right. So I would think seven

months ago back in October they would have been looking for text messages to find out oh, God, what if there`s been an affair going on and the

husband decides to do something about it. So I would have look at the text messages then.

However, he is just been arrested after his wife shows up dead and they found something in the investigation of the wife`s death that led them to

arrest the doctor. Do you think that is maybe like physical evidence in the house, maybe love notes or something? And again, I`m just postulating

here because we have no idea. But they found something in the investigation of the dead wife that made them arrest him for the dead

salesman.

O`CONNELL: Absolutely. There`s going to be a lot of evidence. And there is going to be a lot of people that need to be talked to. For example, all

those witnesses at the initial dinner party or whatever that gathering was, they are going to be drilling down really hard on every single one of those

witnesses. One of them may have been the daughter. We don`t know. Because that hasn`t been revealed. But they -- the chief of police did

talk this morning about the daughter being part of this. So perhaps she saw something and didn`t want to say something initially.

BANFIELD: Well, that`s not good because if something else happened, and now we certainly think something else happened because back in October it

was an accident. Today he is arrested, and I think he is facing -- well, it`s involuntary manslaughter. It`s not murder. So there`s something else

up there. But if those guests or daughter, whoever was at the house wasn`t telling the truth and as you put it, saying from a song sheet and the same

song sheet they could all be in some trouble.

I want to bring in Jonathan Harvey if I can. He is Dr. Lazzarini`s attorney.

First of all, Mr. Harvey, thank you for being with us because I know this is never easy, going on a TV show when you have got a client who is facing

something very serious.

The first question I have for you, do you know if your client`s wife was having an affair with the now dead salesman?

JONATHAN HARVEY, ADAM LAZZARINI`S ATTORNEY: Ashleigh, good to be on your show. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. Hello to Mr. Priest, Ms.

O`Connell, good to see you. Mr. Shah, glad to join you on the panel.

Ashleigh, you have given some very good overview of the case. However, the case isn`t -- no matter how salacious you may think it is, I think your

viewers, the citizens of South Carolina, when the facts are known, this is a tragic accident. Dr. Lazzarini lost a friend, lost a colleague. He is

grieving for the loss of his wife. You can speculate all you want about the salacious nature of things. But I concur with Ms. O`Connell who brings

a lot of experience and a lot of knowledge to investigatory situations.

What we need to do and what your viewers need to understand what appears that you can speculate about is different in fact. So to get into

salacious comments or try to turn this into a salacious incident, one, it isn`t appropriate. And two, it does a disservice to the memory of Mr.

Holland, does a disservice to the memory of Ms. Biery. And you talked about Dr. Lazzarini in your opening comment. Dr. Lazzarini is respected by

his colleagues, admired by his patients. He is grieving the loss of his wife.

[19:15:43] BANFIELD: Mr. Harvey, you are going to have to come back because I completely respect what you have to say. I think it`s weird that

two people are dead in the same home. And we don`t know how one of them died. And now he is charged for the way the other died. When there`s more

investigation or discovery, sir, I love to have you back.

I`m dead out of time. But thank you and thank you to all my guests. I am so sorry. I`m just out of time, but I do want to have you back.

We do have this other story of a text message or two which is great after a first date, but not 65,000 text messages. That`s beyond crossing a red

line. Find out what else this woman is accused of doing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:21:10] BANFIELD: You know, follow-up texts is par for the course after you have gone on a date with somebody. But 65,000 texts might be a little

much. Because 65,000 texts is what an Arizona woman is accused of firing off after going on one date with a man she met online, one date. That was

back in 2017. And this is Jacqueline Ades. She was obsessed. She was not going to let this guy go. As evidenced by some of the texts that she sent.

We got ahold of them. She said like -- oh, what I would do with your blood. I would want to bathe in it.

Yes, I don`t think you`re going to get another date out of that one. The reality of the bath, though, got a whole lot closer to home when the victim

who was out of the country went to do what we all do, you know, we check on our home surveillance system if you have got that remotely, looking on your

phone, and guess who he saw in his house, saw Jacqueline. So he called the police. And guess where they found Jacqueline? In his bathtub, having a

bath.

They also found a butcher knife on the front seat of her car. And then they went ahead and charged Jacqueline with criminal trespassing. But even

that did not stop Jacqueline because last Friday she showed up at his office and said I`m -- hi, I`m his wife.

Well now, she is finally behind bars. And she is charged with stalking, threatening and harassment.

Joining me now is Perry Vandell. He is a reporter with the Arizona Republic. Dr. Daniel Bober, forensic psychiatrist is back with me. Parag

Shah is also with me again, defense attorney and author of "the Code."

OK. First things first, Perry, is there any chance she could get out again? Because she is already done something once, the whole get into his

bath while he`s not there. She did not get put behind bars for that. She is back out. She goes to his office. Now she is locked up. Could she get

bail?

VANDELL (on the phone): No, she does not get bail. She ended up being arrested by Scottsdale -- or sorry, by Paradise Valley police with a

failure to appear warrant and because she failed to appear at that -- to the numerous court hearings, she will not be able to pay for bail and get

out this time.

BANFIELD: OK. There were a couple of other things she did as well, these are all allegations, but there`s a lot of evidence to back this stuff up.

She was outside his house a couple of times as well. And I think, what was it, in a car, sitting outside watching, what were the circumstances?

VANDELL: Yes. So about last summer, apparently the victim said that he saw her parked outside of his car, and he called Paradise Valley police who

escorted her off the property, according to court documents. It doesn`t appear that they arrested her for trespassing, or anything like that,

during that particular instance. But it was, I believe, the first noted instance of her showing up at his residence.

BANFIELD: OK. So I want to read a couple more of these texts. And by the way, I`m not going to read all 65,000 of them. Because even a 24-hour news

network couldn`t possibly fit those all in. But I`m telling you, when I read them and they weren`t funny and they weren`t cute, they were really

scary and they were also nasty. So you already heard the one about, you know, wanting to bathe in the blood. But there`s this as well. She was

trying to lure him to come and see her. And by doing that she thought this would work, you do whatever you have to do to get here, but don`t ever try

to leave me. I will kill you. I don`t want to be a murderer. And this other text is even more sinister. I hope you die, you rotten, filthy Jew,

LOL. I`m like the new Hitler, man was genius.

Do you have any other examples or the characterizations of the rest of the text messages?

[19:25:11] VANDELL: So there are -- there was another one where she talked about wearing body parts on her, on herself according to the court

documents. Those were pretty much the ones that were included in the probable cause statement. So I`m sure there were plenty of others, or

there could have been plenty of others. The police said that many of the texts were threatening in nature. And according to the documents police

say that a lot of texts started to take a more threatening turn after he called the police on her when he found out she was at his home.

BANFIELD: When she was in the bathtub? Yes. Well, guess what, sweetheart, you know. If somebody sees their remote camera and you are in

the bathtub, I would call the police. And that`s not something you should blame him for. I have to tell you. Perry, I just got a tape in.

Apparently this young woman has decided while she`s behind bars she wants to give a press conference. It`s not a good idea. And we are just getting

the tape in. I haven`t heard of it. I haven`t seen it. But can I ask our control room, do we have the tape? Did it feed in yet?

All right. Let me roll what we found. And Perry, if you haven`t already heard it, you can listen right along. Let`s look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you break into his home?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would rather not talk about those things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about the text messages?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would rather not talk about those things.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you text him 65,000 times?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because he made me find out all my information. Loving him selflessly brought this information because everybody just wants

to take. But if you just give and you don`t stop giving, even if you don`t receive, you all of the sudden receive a lot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: No, you don`t. You receive a term behind bars. That`s what you receive if you send someone 65,000 text messages. And that`s what you

receive if you get yourself into their bathtub and if you boil a bunny. Because I have got to be honest, the minute I heard this, I thought of that

movie in the `80s that no man could ever get out of his mind, where Michael Douglas cheated on his wife with Glenn Close, and then Glenn Close went

nuts. If you don`t remember it, this was the key scene, take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what you are up to. But I`m going to tell you it`s going to stop right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s not going to stop. It`s going to go on and on until you face up to your responsibilities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What responsibilities?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m pregnant. I`m going to have our child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Alex, that`s your choice. That has nothing to do with me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to be a part of your life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, this is the way you do it, huh, showing up at my apartment?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What am I supposed to do, you won`t answer my calls, you change your number, I`m not going to be ignored, Dan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: That was one of my favorite lines ever, I will not be ignored, Dan. Because it`s disturbing. And finding some other disturbing things

this young woman is saying from the jailhouse. Let`s roll the rest of what we just got in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You talk about how you felt when you were with him, did you feel a spark immediately? Talk about how you felt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I felt like I met my soul mate. And everything was just the way it was. And I thought we would do what everybody else did and

we would just like get married and everything would be fine. But that`s not what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixty-five thousand text messages, that`s not normal stuff. Not --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- more.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Dr. Bober, you got to jump in on this. She gave a jailhouse interview. That`s just never good idea. It was actually a press

conference. She said that she was scared by this guy. We are not saying his name, by the way, because he is a victim in all of this. She said she

was scared because he called the police on her from out of the country when he saw her on his home surveillance getting into his bathtub. What kind of

a person are we dealing with here, Dr. Bober?

BOBER: Must have been quite a first date there, Ashleigh, but she probably came on a little too strong. You know, it`s interesting most stalkers are

men. But this type of a stalker is someone who has a lot of risk factors for violence. The most significant risk factor is the fact that she

actually entered his home and was in his bathtub. The fact that there was a butcher knife in the car, and of course all the violent statements.

The movie that you showed, "Fatal Attraction" was an absolutely brilliant example of a personality disorder called borderline personality disorder,

and in the mental health field this is the movie we refer to.

People with borderline personality disorder, if this is in fact what she has are people who have chronic feelings of emptiness, a fear of

abandonment, a fear of rejection, and they have an extremely volatile and lay vital mood and can act out violently if they feel like they are being

rejected.

[19:30:13] BANFIELD: So, I`m (AUDIO GAP) the "Fatal Attraction" movie refer to it because I feel as though, generally speaking, most people refer to

the fear that was instilled in them by that movie. It was sort of this breakout plot that no one had seen before, really, you know, in modern

times about just how dangerous it can be just to have a one-night stand. To be clear, we don`t know the extent of the one date that they had. And

let me make sure, you know, Perry, do we know anything about the details? I mean, was it a dinner gone wrong or did it get sexier than that?

Do I still have Perry? Do I have him on the line?

VANDELL: I`m sorry. I`m sorry, go ahead.

BANFIELD: Do we know in any of the court documents like how serious was this date? Did they sleep together? Was this, you know, did this wind her

up, or did -- was it sort of dinner that he realized that you are not my type, I`m out?

VANDELL: So, the court documents say that they went on a single date during this interview with the press. She said that they went on three

dates, and so -- but at the same time if police are saying that she was outside his home or outside his business telling -- shouting that she was

his wife, which isn`t true, then I suppose, you know, this sort of throws into question exactly what actually happened in this case. It sounds like

the man is telling police that they went on a single date, and after that, he didn`t really want to talk to her anymore.

BANFIELD: I can imagine if she sent 65,000 texts, that his word may be better than hers. So, for those of you watching who are too old to

remember "Fatal Attraction" or it didn`t resonate with you because you were like six, I`ll bet you`ve watched "Orange Is The New Black," and I`ll bet

you know the scene that I`m about to tell you about, right? Had to do with a wedding dress and a crazy inmate in love with a guy that she thought was

her fiance when he wasn`t her fiance, and she broke into his house, and after the break, you`re going to see the scene, and there`s a reason I want

to show it to you because the television have much to do with this? That`s next.

[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Message about online dating. If you go on a date with someone and he doesn`t call you back, don`t send him 65,000 texts, don`t sit

outside his house, don`t go to his place of work pretending to be his wife, and don`t have a butcher knife (AUDIO GAP) on the seat of your car when you

go to visit him. Those are all bad things and they will land you with a few bad charges, like they did this young woman named Jacqueline Ades in

Arizona. And if all of what you heard sounds like a part of a T.V. show, especially "Orange Is The New Black", the T.V. show, where inmates all have

this friend named Lorna Morello who tells them that her fiance is Christopher, but it turns out Christopher was a guy she was obsessed with.

She broke into his house, she had a bath in his bathtub, that`s the same thing that happened with this woman, Jacqueline Ades. Take a look at the

clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN O`REILLY, ACTOR: Hey, Angela. Angela?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, it turns out when the police got to the home of this victim, they found Jacqueline Ades in his bathtub. Dr. Bober, really quickly, I

wanted to watch that clip because it made me wonder if sometimes people get ideas from T.V. shows and they get plot lines and they do these things. It

sounded remarkably similar to that scene.

BOBER: Well, you know, I think a show like that would resonate with this person. And, you know, why they enter the home is because they want to

feel closer to the victim, right? They have no sense of control over the situation. And this is -- this is the last shred of control they have over

the victim and the only way they could feel close to them because the victim has rejected them.

BANFIELD: I think we might have another clip that came into our control room from her weird press conference. The inmate gave a press conference

all in the last hour or two, and we`re getting it in piece by piece. So, let`s listen to the most recent piece we got.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[19:40:00] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, you`ve been in Arizona five months?

JACQUELINE ADES, DEFENDANT: I think so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you`ve known him for over a year now, right?

ADES: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, so, did you --

ADES: I was traveling around and I told him I was in California. I wanted to stay in California. And it was while we were still kind of talking

before because I scared him, so while we were still talking, I told him that if he ever blocked me, and that I would come and move here. So, he

blocked me, so I came here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Parag Shah, I`d like you to come in and weigh in on this from a defense attorney standpoint. Look, I don`t know if she`s got a lawyer yet,

I don`t know if she`s got a court-appointed lawyer who`s headed her way, I don`t know if anyone has been able to tell this young woman, do not do

this, do not speak publicly to cameras, you are in a lot of trouble. Does this press conference hurt her in that way, or in a strange twist might it

help her because it shows that she is severely mentally ill, perhaps.

SHAH: In a strange twist, I think it does help. I mean, Beyonce said it right, "Crazy in Love," and this woman, the defense is, love made her

crazy. And the way to handle this case is to deal with mitigation. Get her in to -- get her a mental health evaluation, figure out what`s kind of

going on, what`s the diagnoses, and how can we help her, and that`s the way to go. Can we get her treatment, can we get her back on the right track,

because prison is not the place for mental health individuals. And so, you know, the more crazy she sounds actually might help her.

BANFIELD: So, I want to play her court appearance, if I can, just after she got arrested. And let`s not forget, she`s been arrested a couple of

times. The first time she was arrested, she was sitting outside his house and he was concerned about it. He had called the police about it. Then,

he goes out of town and she goes and breaks into his house and gets in the bathtub. He sees it on the remote cameras.

He sees the remote cameras, and she`s in his house, and when the police get there, she`s in the bathtub. And then, let`s not forget, she went to the

place of work. So, she`s arrested a second time, and this time, you`ll hear something interesting when it comes to the moment where it`s all about

bail. Will she be able to make bail or will there be any bail? Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can I have your full name and date of birth?

ADES: Jacqueline Ades, December 31st, 1986.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, thank you. You`re here on a new case and a warrant.

ADES: Yes, I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And in your case, you`ve been arrested -- I need to tell you why you`re here, so hold on. You got arrested on allegations of

stalking, a Class 5 felony, threatening and intimidating as a Class 6 felony, and harassment by communication, that is a Class 1 misdemeanor.

You are not legally entitled to bond. You will be held without bond in this jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Parag Shah, no bond. I guess I get it because she`s somewhat dangerous to this man. But at the same time, bond is something that we

give because you have the presumption of innocence. And as long as you`re not a flight risk, usually, that`s what the bond is all about. It`s, you

know, there`s a formula for -- are you wealthy, do you have your own personal plane, you have to surrender your passport. Why no bond, though,

in this one?

SHAH: From my understanding from what the reporter said is that she had a prior failure to appear. So, she`s already shown some unwillingness to

come to court. And then, second, another factor that`s weighed heavily is, is she a danger to the community or intimidating, in this case, the victim?

And she has already shown that after that criminal trespass, she went back. She`s still continuously harassing and threatening, and so, it is a

significant reason to deny bail. And I think, you know, the main thing here is to try to see if she can get some treatment while she`s in there.

BANFIELD: Yes, and I thank God, you know, John Doe, he`s -- we`re not releasing his name, obviously, he`s the victim in all of this, he`s

probably breathing a sigh of relief while she`s locked away with no bail. But Dr. Bober, look, these charges do not come with (INAUDIBLE 43:51) a

life sentence, all right. It`s threatening and intimidating, stalking, harassment, and criminal trespass. It might be, I don`t know, a year or

two, and then, she gets out. So, what then for this man who is likely in fear of his life? There was a butcher knife on the seat of her car.

BOBER: Well, you know, Ashleigh, you talk about crazy in love. But I think the crazy came before the love, and so, this is someone who, when

they are released into the community, is going to need a lot of court- ordered very tight controls. She`s going to need mandatory, probably, psychiatric treatment and counselling. And they`re going to need to keep

her on a very short leash and if she doesn`t comply with the court orders, she`s going to have to be back in custody for the safety of the community.

BANFIELD: Perry Vandell, do you know what the next step is? What`s happening with her? When`s her next appearance, and I guess, what are we

going to be able to see and hear about?

VANDELL: So, she is scheduled to appear -- let me pull that up.

[19:45:00] BANFIELD: Sorry to put you on the spot like that.

VANDELL: I believe.

BANFIELD: It might be somewhere -- I`m just looking at the same time. Is it May 18? Is that wrong?

(CROSSTALK)

VANDELL: I believe it`s May 18th. Yes.

BANFIELD: Yes. No, I got it here. May 18, that`s her next. Well, we`ll check in then and find out what the status is, and whether she`s getting

any help. My thanks to Perry Vandell and also Dr. Bober. And Parag Shah, I`m going to ask you to stick around because I do have one more segment.

When it comes to superheroes, they are usually on the right side of the law. So, this is a serious question, why then is the LAPD scouring the

city high and low looking for Iron Man? Not a joke.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:50:25] BANFIELD: Tony Stark, AKA Iron Man, is looking for his trademark suit tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: I could just watch that all night. We don`t even need to do the rest of the show. We`ll just play "Iron Man" clips. But the reason I`m

showing it to you is because the suit that he`s wearing right there, in that movie, Robert Downey Jr. -- it`s been stolen. 2008 movie suit,

someone went and robbed it from an L.A. movie prop warehouse. The police say it vanished sometime between February and late April. I guess it was

just sitting there, right, all that time. No one knew it was gone. The L.A. Times says that that suit, in case you`re wondering, isn`t just

plastic.

It`s worth a lot of money, $325,000. Of course, that`s a far cry from the more than half billion dollars in ticket sales that the movie earned at the

box offices, but 325 K is a lot of money for a costume. You can bet your bottom dollar that a virtual army of superheroes is hot on the trail of

that Iron Man suit and whoever made off with it. I don`t want to see the other guy after they catch him. I hope they catch him.

Parag Shah, it`s an adorable story, but man, it is a big crime. I mean, we`re not talking about some cute theft. $325,000, if they catch the

person, what is he going to -- like, what kind of sentence is that?

SHAH: He`s going to face some serious time because you got burglary charges and, you know, potentially trying to sell it on some black market.

But here`s the other thing, he was dumb for stealing it but whoever buys it is even dumber because --

BANFIELD: What happens?

SHAH: -- you can -- you can be charged with buying stolen property if you know or should know it`s stolen. Obviously, if someone is trying to sell

you an "Iron Man" suit, you know it`s stolen. So --

BANFIELD: Can I ask you something?

SHAH: Yes.

BANFIELD: It`s all (INAUDIBLE), right? The intent, your criminal mind, your intent.

SHAH: Right.

BANFIELD: What if someone just like the movie "Iron Man" wants to buy it for, you know, the bar mitzvah present for his kid and buys it, and truly

does not know that it was stolen. Can they -- can they make a case for that?

SHAH: So, it -- all -- what has to be proved is should you have known? So, the common case is someone tries to sell you a car and the ignition is

taken out, the steering wheel is broken, there`s a screwdriver in the ignition, all those things should tell you, you know what, this car is

probably stolen. So, if there`s something with the suit that alerts the person, oh man, you know, this is -- there`s something funny about this,

then, yes, they can be charged. But if there`s nothing about it and they - - and it looks normal and it`s something that you find on eBay, then, OK.

BANFIELD: I want Robert Downey Jr. to get on the case by for some weird reason. I just want him to do this and go and catch the guy.

SHAH: All of them. Captain America, everybody. Just bring them all out there.

BANFIELD: Every one of the Avengers, right?

SHAH: Yes, any of them.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Parag. OK, hold on. Because coming up next, we have this caper of the yawning caffeinated drink thief. He is so exhausted in

this surveillance photos. I think he may be getting a new title, Rip Van Red Bull, and you have to see the pictures, which you will right after

this.

[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: When this week`s CNN Hero saw children begging in the streets of Vietnam, he went from tourist to altruist. He left his home in New York,

went all the way back to Vietnam and decided to give young people skills to rise out of poverty. Meet Neal Bermas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEAL BERMAS, CNN HERO: The young people in the program come from a whole country. All kinds of very, very difficult paths. We have kids with HIV

backgrounds, kids from leprosy villages, some who have already been traffic and sometimes more than once.

You`ll do great.

Within a couple years, no matter how difficult and how painful, how tortured their life may have been, with 100 percent assurance, I know that

that young person is going to be starting a career with all kinds of possibilities.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: Go to CNN Heroes to watch the full story or nominate someone that you think should be a CNN Hero.

I`ve got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, call it the case of the yawning Red Bull thief. There is such a thing. Here he is. Police in Wisconsin

looking for this guy for allegedly walking out of the store with about $250 worth of Red Bull. So, if you just so happen to see a guy who can`t stop

yawning and he`s taking swig after swig from a little small can and you happen to notice he`s got a stack of it and you live in Wisconsin, maybe

call the police, because that`s not very nice stealing stuff. That`s pretty funny when you`re yawning while stealing caffeine.

See you back here on Monday night, 6:00 Eastern. You can also listen to our show anytime.

END