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QUEST MEANS BUSINESS
French Oil Tank, Total, Is Ready To Pull Out Of Iran; Donald Trump Is Sending More Mixed Messages Over ZTE; Investors Are Scrambling For A Piece Of The Blockchain Bonanza; The Permian Basin Down There Over The West Side Of Texas Has Become A Victim Of Its Own Success; International Outcry Over Sudanese Woman's Death Sentence; U.S. Still Hopeful Donald Trump will Get His Summit with Kim Jong-un after North Korea Threatens to Pull Out; Melania Trump Tweets She's Feeling Great After Surgery; U.K. Lords Defeat PM Theresa May Over Brexit Again; Speculation Mounts Over Royal Honeymoon Destinations; Facebook CEO to Meet European Parliament Members. Aired: 4-5p ET
Aired May 16, 2018 - 16:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RICHARD QUEST, CNN HOST: Closing bells ringing on Wall Street, Dow Jones Industrials eating out a small gain after a fairly choppy part of the
session. Time for the gavel that will bring trading to an end. Yes, two, three determined to do it, the day is over. Not a bad one, but the day is
over. It is Wednesday, it is the 16th of May.
Tonight, Total recalls victory. The French oil tank is ready to pull out of Iran. Donald Trump is sending more mixed messages over ZTE and
investors are scrambling for a piece of the blockchain bonanza. We're going to be inside New York's office ticket.
I am Richard Quest in London. And of course, here, I mean business.
Good evening, tonight, the old investments versus the new. Oil markets are being turned on their head as the world's biggest oil company is struggling
with higher prices and sanctions in Iran, unrest in Venezuela, and bottlenecks in the United States.
You will hear from the Chief Executive of B.P. in just a moment. We also have with us a CEO of a Texas oil land who tells us what's happening in the
basin. At the same time, investors are chasing the next big commodity, cryptocurrency, and in this program, we will be live at the Crypto
Conference where it's cost thousands of dollars to attend, and tickets have completely sold out. So, it tells us all we need to know about this
Let's start though with the traditional oil industry and oil has been trading at $70.00 a barrel, a level that we've seen since 2014. And the
interesting reason, it's not because of a sudden surge in demand, rather it's about a lack of supply, partly because of U.S. sanctions on Iran and
now, France's Total says, it could ditch its Iranian investments.
Total says, it will abandon a $2 billion project unless it gets a waiver from secondary sanctions. Those are risk that the U.S. now has backed out
of the Iran nuclear deal last year. Total's Chief Executive has warned, they would have to rethink if things change.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICK POUYANNE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, TOTAL: Either we can do the deal legally, it requires a legal framework and then, we will proceed. If we
cannot do that for legal reasons because change of regime or sanctions, then, we have to revisit it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, Total says, it will stay in Iran if it gets a waiver from the U.S. against further sanctions or secondary sanctions. There is by no
means any guarantee that it would get it, certainly not as a French company, but the U.S. has pulled out of the deal. We can see what is
happening with the price of oil, it continues to rise and it will continue to go $79.00, nearly $80.00 for Brent at the moment. WTI falling just a
little bit behind.
Now, surprisingly, the Chief Executive of B.P. tells us, these are uncertain times for the industry, all as the supply shortfall continues
because of what is happening in Iran and Venezuela.
Bob Dudley of B.P. told John Defterios he is glad that B.P. didn't rush into Iran.
(START VIDEO TAPE)
BOB DUDLEY, CEO, B.P.: There is a fair way for oil prices, I think of it good for the world. If you say 50 to 65, it feels like both sides,
consumers and producers can live with that, we're off that fairway now.
And you know, anything can happen here, but I think it's better when the industry works within a bandwidth in pricing.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Historically, Saudi Arabia and the other Gulf producers have stepped up when there is a dislocation because of
geopolitics or conflict. Do you see Saudi Arabia still doing it even though Iran is in the mix here?
DUDLEY: Well, the Saudis do have excess capacity as does the UAE and Kuwait to a degree, and I think there is no question that if needed, I
think speaking with them that they will bring that to the market. You also have got a quick response of the market in the United States with the shale
producers who are responding now, and you can see activity going up and there will be increased production there.
But there's a lot of dynamics right now. You look at Venezuela which is sort of a human tragedy looking at the country with production falling very
fast and now, the uncertainty of Iran. So we are in an uncertain period here. It's not necessarily just following supply and demand.
DEFTERIOS: B.P. had a long history in Iran, you must be pretty pleased you decided not to jump back in when the sanctions came off.
DUDLEY: I think, it was fairly best that we're not working in Iran today. We did have a history, the company was founded there back in 1908, but
there is only so many places you can invest within a disciplined capital framework, and that would just look difficult to us, so I think it's best
that we step back and we have not been engaged really with Iran.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
QUEST: Bob Dudley with an honest assessment of why B.P. didn't go into the country. Unfortunately, it's also missing out on the West Texas shale oil
boom. B.P. once in, it's a very crowded neighborhood. Look at the map and you'll see exactly what we're talking about.
The Permian Basin down there over the west side of Texas has become a victim of its own success. Everyone is pumping oil. The problem of
course, there's no effort again. Simply, yes, it sounds extraordinary, but there is not enough pipeline capacity to get the oil to Houston, the Gulf
Coast, and out in the wider market.
It's a huge distance. Think about it. Texas is bigger than France - 500 miles, 800 kilometers from West Texas down to Houston. Nine hours by car,
seven by rail. Todd Staples is the Chief Executive of the Texas Oil and Gas Association. He joins me tonight from Palestine in Texas.
I have been there, sir. It is relatively remote. Always a warm welcome in West Texas, but absolutely boom time at the moment as these prices rise and
I think you'll agree, as the rig count so production will continue?
TODD STAPLES, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, TEXAS OIL AND GAS ASSOCIATION: New things are in store for the Permian Basin in Texas. Texas today is responsible
for about 40% of the entire nation's capacity and with the level of investment that has been, there is planning that is occurring along with
infrastructure growth and development that we can continue to play an outside role in the supply of oil and natural gas.
The issues that we are facing today take away capacity, congestion and the roads in that region are all things that will require work, but the
industry has a strong track record of delivering and that's certainly what we intend to do.
QUEST: Right, but this idea of the Permian Basin being overwhelmed by pipeline - by capacity constraint. Needing better ways to get the product
out to the Coast and into the market. There's not a lot you can do in the short term and yet, as I was just alluding to, if we look at the recount
which is up 20% year-on-year, we can expect more potential production in the next 12 months.
STAPLES: We certainly can. The growth is going to continue, the Permian Basin is going one of the most prolific oil and natural gas production
basins in the world today, and the good news is that the industry has been cleansed. It has recognized how important a role this region of state is
to the nation and the world, and many projects have been planned more oil line, their project does need to be delivered to the Texas Gulf Coast and
can continue to grow, in fact, we're in the world's west spot.
QUEST: So, as we have seen, we will show the numbers again, obviously, you're looking at the West Texas blend as the price, $71.00 or $71.50,
Brent at $79.00. As we have seen WTI go to $71.00 with the prospect of $75.00 and $80.00 ahead, are you seeing more investment? Are you seeing
the wild cutters coming back? The banks being prepared to lend not only against future production, but also against installation?
STAPLES: So, in 2016 for example, there is almost $26 billion in just merger and acquisition deals only in the Permian Basin, so now, you do see
the massive level of investment. The companies are coming together. They are planning for developing the infrastructure, the schools, the houses,
the hospitals that are needed to give that support structure to make certain that the future is going to be bright for long.
And so we do see that occurring. As long as our port expansion is occurring up and down the Texas Gulf Coast to accommodate this increased
QUEST: Finally, we hear that the U.S. is now a global swing producer, a role that used to be taken up by Saudi Arabia of course, but the U.S.
cannot be the swing producer in quiet and say, "Wait," because it doesn't turn the tap on as easily, and it doesn't switch it off as easily. It's a
market trend or a market effect, rather than the government fiat, so do you see the U.S. as being the swing producer?
STAPLES: What I see is this, there is no denying that ultimately, supply and demand determines the level of production and process. American
consumers, world-wide consumers who are feeling the pits right now because of tensions across the globe and in the Middle East.
The United States is well prepared and what we need here in this country to continue to play that role that is so important nationally are local, state
and Federal policies that encourage continued investment and growth, policies at the state level, infrastructure development, policies at the
national level, a NAFTA with investment protections that will continue to make certain we can grow and expand and tariffs alone across the board as
well will play a big role in --
STAPLES: -- how much investments you see here.
QUEST: Todd, great to have you on the program. Please, let's talk more about this as the price inevitably rises. Quick one, in a sentence, your
six-month forecast for WTI price, we are at $71.00 at the month, six months out, where will be, do you think?
STAPLES: Well, I've got to let the market determine that, but for you - I assure the producers in the Permian Basin will do their part and they will
increase the supply to make the difference.
QUEST: You can't blame a man for trying. All right, thank you, Todd. I guess that was going to be the answer. All right, U.S. markets ended the
day slightly higher. Let's go over to the boards and we can see exactly what happened.
Besides this little blimp right about half past 11 in the morning when the markets went down, we actually started quite well, hunkered down and then
we had a really good session, evaporating some of the gains towards the close.
But again, in the last half hour, you do get this recovery. It's fair to say, and we're talking small numbers at 62, just a quarter of a percent,
and they failed to recover from the steep losses we saw on Tuesday, but retail was the lone bright spot with Macy's up more than 10%. I will
explain how that happened and why in a moment.
Let's go to Washington where Donald Trump is seemingly sewing more confusion over who is calling the shots over ZTE, that's the China smart
phone giant that effectively went out of business when the U.S. said it could no longer source U.S. goods and technology.
The Commerce Secretary, Wilbur Ross has insisted sanctions on ZTE were separate from any trade deal with China. Now, a tweet from the President
has muddied the waters all over again. Mr. Trump said in his tweet, "Nothing has happened with ZTE except as it pertains to the larger trade
deal. There has been no folding as the media would love people to believe. The meetings haven't even started yet."
So, CNN's Political Analyst, Josh Rogin is in Washington and joins me now. Josh, I read your interesting piece in the "Washington Post," and the
headline says it all. China gave Trump a list of crazy demands and he caved into one of them. Now, you asked a question, "What the heck happened
here?" Answer your own question, please?
JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, what we are seeing is the spilling out into public of a pitch battle inside the Trump
administration's senior ranks over how to handle this, the opening salvo in the grand battle to restructure the U.S.-China economic and trade
The battle by the way that the Trump administration started and that President Trump himself now seems to be wavering on it, at least in certain
tweets, if not others, and while on one side you've got the Mnuchin, Kudlow and sometimes, Ross camp pushing for a de-escalation that would result in a
mini deal that would back off of a lot of the threats in order to get some short-term gains, and on the other side, you have Navarro and Lighthizer
and sometimes, Ross, pushing for the actual confrontation so that we can restructure the relationship.
QUEST: But in the midst of all of these, you get the bizarre situation of the Trump administration's Commerce Department introducing sanctions and
then, the President responding to a phone call from President Xi, which leads everybody asking, what is the policy?
ROGIN: Right, and the answer is clear. There is no policy and they are still mulling it through, and the bottom line is that, the President backed
off ZTE because the Chinese President asked him to in advance of the next round of talks, at the same time, he faced a huge blowback from national
security hawks, economic security hawks, and lots of other people who believe that ZTE is a real problem, and now he is at odds with his own
Commerce Secretary and they haven't resolved it.
They haven't even resolved whether or not they've got the list of demands that I know they got because I published it.
QUEST: Now, finally, there is this scurrilous piece of rumor and gossip, heaven forbid doing the rounds that there was an investment made into the
Trump organization of some $500 million or so, which miraculously arrived after the President had changed his decision on ZTE.
Now, I am not for a moment suggesting anything untoward, because we don't know what actually happened. I think that's fair enough. We don't know.
ROGIN: Well, there is no evidence that there is a link. That deal had been in the works for years, there's a lot of things going on in the U.S.-
China economic relationship and have the words Trump and China that aren't necessary causational, but that's the problem that you create when you have
a huge project like the economic confrontation of China, Chinese Communist Party aggression and no policy and no messaging and no signaling.
Lots of people make assumptions, and --
ROGIN: -- I don't know if there is any link here. I don't think there was, but it's up to the administration to clarify what its policy is. Tell
us what we are doing, what and where we go from here.
QUEST: And arguably, it's exactly what you would expect to happen if you end up with a President that has conflict of interest across his business
dealings. Sir, it's great to have you on the program, as always.
ROGIN: Any time.
QUEST: Thank you for spending time with us. As we continue on QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, tonight, Macy's is the most fashionable stock on Wall Street
today and is predicting the demise of the department store, well, it may be to sort of say, "We think it," but certainly, all is a thought
Welcome back, the crypto gold rush, which arguably started on the U.S. West Coast has now reached New York City. The world's financial capital wants
to stay and wants to ensure that it has a role in crypto and indeed, wants to ensure that the Big Apple is a crypto center in the future, and it sees
blockchain as very much part of that future.
As a result, it is hosting the largest ever blockchain job fair. It's part of New York's Blockchain Week, and later in the program, we're going to
hear from the head of New York's Economic Development Corporation, who will talk about why New York - what New York believes it can do in this regard.
First though, the problem for the casual investor to understanding exactly what blockchain is.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To get started on the blockchain, you need computer power. Each computer on the blockchain is made as a node and
here is where the trust comes in.
When a transaction happens between two users, the request is brokered to the whole network. The amount and a digital key representing each user.
The other nodes on the network verify it and then add it to a shared digital database organized into blocks.
We all have access to the data, nothing can be deleted or changed. So no one can cheat.
The fact that the database is maintained by everyone on the network means, financial transactions can happen without a bank, contracts without a
lawyer, in theory even voting with a central election authority.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: So, far Bitcoin is the most notorious user of blockchain technology, highly volatile, down 40% so far. You remember back in January
up here, yes, it comes back up and then it goes up and then - and you get the idea. The year-to-date changed down 40.3 percent, but that hasn't
dampened interest which is the interesting thing because even though blockchain - Bitcoin itself has been very volatile. There is an acceptance
that blockchain is the way of the future.
And so not surprisingly, this conference, this crypto conference has been sold out with an estimated $17 million in ticket sales. The Chief
Executive of the organizers says that blockchain is everyone's opportunity and everyone's problem now.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN WORTH, CEO, COINDESK: There is probably not one Fortune 500 Company CEO who is not turning to their Chief Technology Officer in saying what is
our blockchain strategy and how we should we think about this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: No question, blockchain is the future. Clare Sebastian is at the Consensus Conference in New York to explain even more about how the Big
Apple hopes to ensure it has a large chunk and slice.
SEBASTIAN: Yes Richard the whole point of this event was not only to bring together they key brains in the new companies in blockchain, but also to
show that it is reaching the masses and how better to do that than through the medium of beer.
This is a beer vending machine and how do you get access?
CHRIS HART, COO, CIVIC: So, in order to get the access, you download the Civic ID and you will create on the mobile app a representation of yourself
on the blockchain.
SEBASTIAN: Now, I have to verify myself, and the first thing it wants me to do is to take...
HART: A selfie.
SEBASTIAN: A selfie, all right.
HART: There, you are verified.
SEBASTIAN: Enrollment completed, okay, great.
HART: So, now what's happening is your identity is being created on the blockchain and then you will open up the camera, and then just scan the
code. It will simply find out that you are of age, and it will serve you a beer.
SEBASTIAN: And it is serving me a beer. And that's all on the blockchain.
HART: That's all on the blockchain.
SEBASTIAN: All right.
SEBASTIAN: There, Richard, I had to upload my driving license, I had to take to take a picture of myself. You may think that's a lot of data to
hand over just for a beer, but the company says that that's only stored on your phone and it creates a cache of it and that's what goes on the
blockchain, so that really does give you control over your data in a time of course, where many people are questioning data storage by tech
But look, you talked about this as an event from New York City, so I want to bring in James Patchett. He is the President and CEO of the New York
Economic Development Council. James, does New York City want to be the blockchain what Silicon Valley is to tech and the Internet.
JAMES PATCHETT, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NEW YORK ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COUNCIL: Yes, you know, what's amazing about blockchain is that we're really at the
ground floor of blockchain. New York City is already a leader in so much innovation. I mean the amazing excitement going on in this conference
today, over 8,000 people here from six continents around the world. It's pretty remarkable. It goes to show you that New York is already a leader.
And frankly, it's our job at the Economic Development Corporation to be investing in innovation all the time, 21st Century innovations, whatever is
going to be changing our economy, whatever that's virtual reality, cyber security, life sciences or blockchain.
SEBASTIAN: And you are running a jobs fair as we speak right now. I mean, do you think there will be real economic impact on New York's economy if
you manage to bring widespread adoption of blockchain and new applications.
PATCHETT: So, two years ago, there were 50 open jobs in New York City in blockchain. Right now, there are about 800. It goes to show you the
remarkable exponential growth in jobs in blockchain. Right now, at the job fair, people are actually actively recruiting for people. They want new
employees. There is a gap in the number of people in tech industries and like New Yorkers are ready for those jobs and we believe, there is a
potential to be a billion - multibillion dollar industry in New York City.
SEBASTIAN: I want to ask you a difficult question because one thing that New Yorkers have grappled with in the past particularly when it comes to
cryptocurrency is regulation. Is there a right way to do this? How do you foster this kind of innovation without driving people out with too much
PATCHETT: Yes, I am completely confident that in New York, we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can protect consumers and at the same time,
foster innovation. We have done it for centuries. We invented the ATM here, the MRI machine, we even invented the Oreo, which in some ways is the
precursor to blockchain. Complicated technology, but perfect.
I think you know, we really are excited to be opening. We announced this week a new blockchain resource center. That resource center is really
going to be a venue to connect entrepreneurs and investors with regulators in the city so that they can have those direct conversations.
Regulators want to protect consumers, but they don't want to interfere with innovation, and that's really what we believe in.
SEBASTIAN: James, thank you so much.
PATCHETT: Thank you.
SEBASTIAN: Richard, there you have it, blockchain compared to the Oreo - complicated but perfect.
QUEST: Their Oreo, who knows what's next? Clare Sebastian who is at the conference. Eric Ervin is the Chief Executive of Reality Shares winning an
ETF exchange traded fund, that allows people to invest in blockchain related technologies joins me from New York. Good to see you, sir.
ERIC ERVIN, CHIEF EXECUTIVE, REALITY SHARES: Thank you.
QUEST: Your ETF launched in January, and it sort of held its own, I think it's just a dollar or two lower than the IPO price, so there's clearly a
lot of interest in what's happening. Where are you funding? Where are you --
QUEST: -- funding? Where are you investing? Which underlying shares within the ETF?
ERVIN: Yes, the ETF itself is based on publicly traded companies, so what we wanted to do was go out and thinking about this as an innovation, it
really is a technological innovation much like the Internet and just like the Internet, where e-mail was kind of the first killer app that allowed
everyone access to see the power behind the Internet, but there was so much behind it.
Bitcoin was kind of the first killer app of the blockchain. Now, you can take - you have companies like NASDAQ for example who is building out an
entire stock exchange based on blockchain technology to where shares can be transferred from one person to another without the need of a broker in the
middle, custodians, you know, like so much GDP in the financial system is spent on custody.
QUEST: Does that mean your ETF pretty much has a very wide berth of what could be within it?
ERVIN: Yes, well, at the end of the day, it's based on an index and we developed this index with the help of a blockchain advisory board of
industry experts, but what we do is we score each company, each publicly traded company in seven different areas in order to come up with a
blockchain score, which is really kind of a window into how much are they doing in the blockchain space, and how much revenue they could possibly
generate from blockchain if it's a wild success.
Then we rank those companies and rebalance the portfolio every six months based on that ranking system.
QUEST: How are we going to see companies? I mean, obviously there are a myriad of companies involved in the protocols and the - if you like, the
back engine part of blockchain, but we're starting to see the banks, the financial institutions explore ways in which block chain can be used for
their purposes, too. How big is this going to get?
ERVIN: Well, that's just it. It's one of these innovations again, like who would have thought 20 years after the Internet, we would have another
potential Internet boom. And this Internet boom is really the Internet of money, and it's the Internet of things coming onto a central or a
decentralized database, so these systems could in fact, dis-intermediate the banks entirely.
But that's not going to be the case for the next five to ten years. Next 20 years, yes, but not for the next five to ten. So, banks are using this
in order to reduce cost to give the consumer a much better offering, really and cheaper and better offering.
QUEST: Good to see you, sir. Thank you. We will talk more about it. We will watch your ETF in the future.
ERVIN: Thank you.
QUEST: We appreciate it. As we continue, Macy's is back. Let's go from the new to the old. It's back on fashion, at least on Wall Street today,
the U.S. retail stock is up more than 10%. It reported a big jump in digital sales and a strong foothold in its bricks and mortar stores. Paul
La Monica, in a sentence or three what did they do right?
PAUL LA MONICA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think Macy's got international tourists to come back to the physical stores, that helped. Their revenue
from people coming outside of the U.S., particularly the New York Town Square, that was up, but then also they are investing in digital as well to
try and take on Amazon, as well as Walmart and Target and that seems to be working for them also because their digital sales were in a double digit
pace yet again.
QUEST: I have to say, I tried to buy a pair of some socks on macys.com, it is not as easy as buying it on Amazon.
LA MONICA: I would probably agree. Most people would argue that Amazon has really made online shopping and digital shopping on your phone pretty
seamless and that's something that I think Macy's and scores of other retailers are still trying to figure out.
QUEST: Paul La Monica, thank you.
LA MONICA: Thank you.
QUEST: I'll let you know when I bought some more socks, and when we return in just a moment, the press and the Royal Family. It's always been a
tempestuous difficult relationship over the years. I was going to say love-hate. One loves to cover, the other hates to be covered as opposed to
where we could put it. We are going to look at the coexistence with the Royal Wedding only three days away.
This is your Royal Wedding Center, it's CNN from London.
[16:30:00] QUEST: Everybody, good evening to you, I am Richard Quest, there is more QUEST MEANS BUSINESS in a moment.
Theresa May set as a further setback in the house of lords, we're going to have lord Bilimoria joining us here in the studio. Is he a wrecker of
democracy or a champion of the people's freedom, what you're thinking about.
Mark Zuckerberg heading to Brussels, European Parliament wants answers about Facebook, will they get them? Samuel Burke will talk about that as we
continue, this is Cnn and on this network the facts, they'll always come first.
An escalating cause of outrage from inside Sudan and across the world over the horrific plight of the young Sudanese woman who is sentenced to death.
A Sharia court has convicted the 19-year-old Noura Hussein of murdering her husband.
She did so after she was forced against her will to marry him, and she says his family then held her down while he raped her.
President Trump says he hasn't received any information that will put the upcoming summit of the North Korea's leader in jeopardy. But the president
says we'll see what happens. The North recently released a statement saying it's reconsidering that meeting and that the U.S. shouldn't try to
force Pyongyang's unilateral nuclear abandonment.
The First Lady of the United States Melania Trump has just tweeted that she's feeling great and is looking forward to getting back home soon.
She's still in hospital after a procedure on Monday on her kidney.
She also thanked all the staff of the Walter Reed Hospital which is close to the White House. Theresa May's government feels the sting of defeat
once again in the house of lords over her Brexit plans.
The upper chamber of the British parliament has voted to keep the E.U. environmental standards after the U.K. leaves. Now, the amendment was
opposed by the Prime Minister appears already defeated the government on 14 previous amendments.
Here in Britain, the "Daily Mail" has criticized the house of lords getting in the way of Brexit. In the past, it's called peers like lord Bilimoria
unelected wreckers. So now you see in that picture.
Lord Bilimoria joins me. Your lordship, are you a wrecker, undemocratic?
KARAN FARIDOON BILIMORIA, ENTREPRENEUR & LIFE PEER: Well, that's what they've said, I see that I'm trying to protect our democracy. I am trying
to make sure that this European Union withdraw bill -- along with my peers, we've done our job, which is to scrutinize legislation, to review
legislation, amend it and get the Commons to think again.
At the end of the day, the Commons get the final say. All we can do is make them think again.
QUEST: But you are putting forward views that somewhat say go against the tenet that the British people voted for, which is to leave the European
Union. And if you try and weasel(ph) it so that you remain in the Customs Union or the single market, you de facto nullify that vote.
BILIMORIA: Not at all. The British people voted in a vain, now our base is 52-48 nearly two years ago now to leave the European Union. But they
didn't say on what basis? It wasn't a blank check to say --
QUEST: Well, it was actually, because that was when the referendum was bought.
[16:35:00] BILIMORIA: Well, that is not the way if we leave, we will leave because we have to go to the people at some stage and say, these are the
terms of deal or no deal, are you happy to leave on that basis?
And this EU was for a bill, there was so many amendments, we had over 400 amendments, what we're talking about is at a 15 where the house of lords
defeats it, the government. And by the way, defeated government with labor peers disobeying their -- with conservative peers up to 17 to 19 each time,
including former cabinet minister, the ministers define their whip.
Because peers doing what they thought was the right thing to do for the best of the country. So the Customs Union for example, that is one of the
best solutions to the Northern Island situation.
And the EEA amendment to say, well, the least worst option, the best is to stay in the EU, but if we have to leave, the EEA is the least worst --
QUEST: Well, on the --
BILIMORIA: Because that gives us all the single market terms, the freedom of movement, goods, services, capital, which is fantastic in British
QUEST: So where do you see the limit of your authority to question not just the decision of what the British people voted for because let's face
it, given your traverse, you'd have a stay in the European Union.
BILIMORIA: Without a doubt --
QUEST: Right --
BILIMORIA: That is the best option.
QUEST: Right, but it's not going to happen because that's not what the British --
BILIMORIA: No --
QUEST: The British people voted for.
BILIMORIA: Not necessarily, because the way this is all evolving, the conservative party itself cannot agree on what form of customs partnership
or customs marks back, none of which is acceptable to Ireland or to the EU or it's practically workable from a business point of view.
Let alone when you get the Gibraltar situation which hasn't even come up yet. The Northern Ireland is an Achilles heel, at the end of the day, this
is all been an argue back to the Commons, it is up to them whether they accept these.
And for example, another big amendment was parliament having a meaningful say at the end of the day in October. Do the governments view for
meaningful say listen, well, cheers, a deal or no deal, if you voted down, we crush out on WTO rules.
The British public will not accept that. We in the house of lords had a meaningful say, it means if necessary, go back and negotiate again.
QUEST: But you can't --
BILIMORIA: Or it turns out maybe --
QUEST: Turns up --
BILIMORIA: Or maybe, people having another day --
QUEST: Now, you're doing exactly what the critics said. You are forcing the argument into a narrow alley way that eventually ends up with you. You
just said it there, your lordship, or remain.
BILIMORIA: Yes, that is quite possible that we might end up remaining, that might be the best option that the British people themselves say that's
what we prefer.
QUEST: Last night, sitting where you are, the father of the house Sir Kenneth Clarke, whom you know very well, termed -- have a listen to what he
said. Have a listen to what he said because I'd like to have your views on what Mr. Clarke said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNETH CLARKE, FORMER LORD CHANCELLOR: I have never seen anything this chaotic as this. Though, this is the maddest political situation I've ever
seen. What worries me, this is one of the most important crisis in British politics as the modern times.
We're taking decisions that will make a big effect on the prosperity and wellbeing of my children and grandchildren.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUEST: Now, use it as a cross-bencher, which means you have no party political affiliation in the lords. Would you agree with Kenneth Clarke?
BILIMORIA: I would agree 100 percent of what he said, because if you look at the conservative party, they're absolutely split on this. If you look
at the Labor Party, they can't agree whether to stay in a single market or not, whether the EEA is an option or not.
So you've got the main government party in a disarray, you've got the opposition in disarray and the most important point he made there is this
is the future of our children and grandchildren.
And already, we've got two years worth of them who didn't get a vote in 2016 are old enough to vote now. By the time we get to March, they'll be
able -- two million youngsters, and every time I speak to youngsters at schools and universities and I say, would you prefer to remain in the
European Union? One hundred percent of their hands go up.
It's their future that we're taking away from them.
QUEST: As always, lord, good to see you, sir. Whether you're wrecking or not, please always come back here and send the wrecking bailor (ph) out,
thank you very much.
Now, when we come back, this case of wish you were there, as the world's media focus on this week's royal wedding, so you need to consider where
might a prince and his bride head for a honeymoon and the economic boost that awaits their destination.
It is QUEST MEANS BUSINESS, we're live in London tonight.
[16:40:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: It was a script you couldn't write it, no one would believe it as the royal family prepares for this weekend's wedding, the royal wedding,
will he, won't he, attendance of Meghan's father is definitely resembling a reality TV show to be sure.
We now know that Thomas Markle will not be attending the wedding because of ill health. However, the coverage that got to this point underscores the
British royal family's exceptionally difficult relationship with the tabloid media.
As CNN's Anna Stewart reports from Windsor.
ANNA STEWART, CNN (voice-over): It was the most watched event in television history. More than 700 million people tuned in to the wedding
of Prince Charles and Lady Diana. They came for the pub, the circumstance and of course the dress.
STIG ABELL, FORMER MANAGING EDITOR, THE SUN: In many ways, she was a reality TV star before reality TV existed, she was a Twitter star before
Twitter existed, she was just this focus of attention, not just for Britain but the whole world.
STEWART: Diana's arrival on the world stage ushered in a golden age for Britain's tabloid newspapers and the rise of paparazzi tactics that many
believe caused her death.
Photographers were chasing her in Paris the night she was killed in a car crash.
ABELL: It was the fact that photographs of her were so valuable that she was dead.
ARTHUR EDWARDS, PHOTOGRAPHER, THE SUN: And this is the bride --
STEWART: Arthur Edwards has spent more than four decades photographing the royal family for "The Sun" last week --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last week --
STEWART: The photos of Diana pushed "The Sun" circulation to record highs.
EDWARDS: The world will say, this is private, this is intrusion. But it is, it's a news story. If you get a prince of this country, a prince of
the royal home, seeing a girl, she could be his wife.
STEWART: Today, the rules have changed for those who cover the royal family.
EDWARDS: You cannot knock a door, knock them more than once, if it's on a story, you cannot harass people, you cannot follow people in cars, you
cannot do any of that.
STEWART: And there are sharper elbows from Diana's sons, Prince William and Harry who still blame the press in part for the death of their mother.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What you see today is a very guarded royal family, William and Harry have both been very clear in terms of what is acceptable
when reporting on their private life.
And yet, the press always takes it a step further.
STEWART: In 2016, Harry issued an unprecedented statement condemning the press when he felt the initial reporting of his and Meghan's relationship
crossed the line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They've drawn a line in the sand, they said OK, this is enough, back off or we'll restrict all kinds of access.
STEWART: Didn't favor reporters and photographers, have complained about the limited space they're being offered at the actual wedding ceremony
itself. They say they had much better access at the wedding of William and Kate, and that was six years ago, since then, the royal family has grown a
huge social media presence.
ABELL: Why would you want your message to be mediated by people who are scarcely looking for a story if you didn't have to, and I suspect that's
what they think now.
STEWART: On Monday, Harry and Meghan quickly responded to a scandal surrounding Meghan's father. The couple issued a statement asking for
quote, "understanding and respect".
But on Tuesday morning, the story was front and center splashed across page one. Anna Stewart, Cnn, Windsor.
QUEST: After all of this, you'll need a holiday or at least a honeymoon, should be Africa, a nice Europe city break perhaps, international, it got
to be rather nice, European escapes or the Caribbean and Mexico.
Well, they do love going on the nice, big honeymoon, after that 2011 wedding, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Katherine and William spent
theirs in the Seychelles. They checked into an exclusive North Island Resort for more than a week.
[16:45:00] Prince Charles and the late Princess of Wales jetted off to the Greek islands where they boarded the royal yacht Britannia for a 12-day
cruise to Egypt. The yacht no longer exists. For such show, Cnn travels compiled the list of potential destinations, obviously top of the list is
Botswana in Africa, it's a favorite of Harry and the couple's romance blossomed.
Harry took Meghan there the month after they met. So it's a seven out of ten for that place. Other African countries, press report suggests couple
are looking at Namibia, beautiful and famous pronouncedly led by President Trump, (INAUDIBLE) six out of ten.
And if the couple want stay close to home as always, Sitano (ph) in Italy, will shock up everyone there, Meghan stayed there in 2016 and gave it a
thumbs up, like you would give it a six out of ten.
We need some help! We need some help in this, and there's one person who can help us, the editor of Conde Nast Traveler, she joins me now. Melinda
MELINDA STEVENS, EDITOR, CONDE NAST TRAVELER: Good evening --
QUEST: Where are they going to go to, you think?
STEVENS: I'd love them to go to Positano because I went there on my honeymoon and stayed at the Serrano (ph) which is one of the most special
hotels in the world. But I don't think they will, I think it's more likely that they'll go to Botswana or Namibia.
QUEST: It's got to be somewhere that is of importance to them, Harry said it's where they went on two weeks after or three weeks after they met.
When he asked -- and as he said the interview slept under the stars.
STEVENS: I know, very romantic, and I think Safari in general is very romantic. The ring that Harry has given Meghan as well, it's a diamond
from Botswana, so there's that connection. Harry has taken several girlfriends to Botswana --
QUEST: Oh --
STEVENS: So Meghan is not the first, but Botswana is beautiful.
QUEST: Shame on you, woman, shame.
STEVENS: But you're right, they have a connection and it's extremely diverse and you've got lots of -- does it for the water, and you've got --
so vast which are a wild wilderness and it's not many people --
QUEST: Sure --
STEVENS: Who can have some space.
QUEST: If you take a look at the Conde Nast's list of --
STEVENS: Yes --
QUEST: Top honeymoon destinations, probably, it could have been -- you've got the Seychelles, the Maldives, Mauritius --
STEVENS: Italy --
QUEST: Fiji, so nothing extraordinary or Scotland. Nothing, but --
STEVENS: Short stay --
QUEST: Scotland is very unusual, but --
STEVENS: All of the royals go on honeymoon to Scotland, I'm sure they end up at Balmoral at some point. And one of my most romantic things in the
world is taking a sleep in trains(ph) to Scotland.
So that's an option, but probably not -- the Seychelles, again, William and Kate went to North Island, you mentioned that North Island is one of the
most beautiful beach destinations that I can make of.
QUEST: The difficulty for royals --
STEVENS: Yes --
QUEST: Choosing their honeymoon. Now Diana and Charles used the royal yacht, the queen spent time in Malta after -- the difficulty of finding the
privacy, even on the Seychelles, there were photographs.
QUEST: It's going to be a tough a challenge, isn't it?
STEVENS: That is always a challenge --
QUEST: Which is why --
STEVENS: Special privacy --
QUEST: When they finished.
STEVENS: I think that is so popular, so private residence. So I think that reason, and maybe also might be one for the running because it's
completely a wilderness, it's very hard to get to, there's hardly any people there.
Funny enough, set to Harry and Meghan, Namibia is a destination that the traveling industry is talking about a lot this year because a lot of
interesting hoteliers are going in there and building amazing camps, but really it's -- you're in the middle of nowhere.
QUEST: And finally, the principle when looking for a honeymoon. When --
STEVENS: Yes --
QUEST: Choosing a honeymoon. I mean --
STEVENS: I know --
QUEST: You don't want a weekend in like, you know --
STEVENS: Mauritius, for also coming as travelers, we don't specifically talk about honeymoons in a very driven way because there's something a bit
structured and a bit teasing and a bit enough, but Meghan and Harry are the type of people who will go somewhere wild and rooted as be more authentic I
And you know, it was as she loved camping, so and we love camping too, so I think it will be something a bit more adventurous than the 55 best one
QUEST: I've got --
STEVENS: Maybe a drink.
QUEST: So I've got my snorkel, I've got --
STEVENS: You're off --
QUEST: I'm off --
STEVENS: You were indeed.
QUEST: Good to see you, thank you very much indeed for coming in and --
STEVENS: Thank you --
QUEST: Helping us understand exactly what it is. Botswana --
STEVENS: Botswana --
QUEST: Or Namibia --
STEVENS: Or Namibia.
QUEST: We should leave --
STEVENS: I hope it's needed and I hope they have some privacy, they get away from all of us --
QUEST: Absolutely, good to see you, thank you very much indeed.
STEVENS: Thank you very much.
QUEST: A reminder for this weekend, there's a front row seat for you to Harry and Meghan's big day, it's our special coverage of the royal wedding,
it's on Saturday right here on CNN.
As we continue tonight, assuming I can get my mind off my holidays in the Caribbean and Mexico, the Facebook executive is back in the hot seat, this
time he's going to quizzed by E.U. parliament members, Samuel Burke will bring this up.
[16:50:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUEST: Mark Zuckerberg has agreed to meet members of the European parliament, he could be heading to Brussels as soon as next week, where
lawmakers want to question him about Facebook's personal use of data.
Samuel Burke is with us.
SAMUEL BURKE, CNN TECHNOLOGY & BUSINESS NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Richard --
QUEST: He resisted going.
BURKE: He resisted going just like he resisted going to the U.S. Congress, but he ended up there. But you actually got us thinking about this, this
is unprecedented. We see Facebook execs, all types of execs grilled in front of the U.S. Congress.
But think about it, when you think about Rupert Murdoch in front the U.K. folks, you don't think of big execs in front of the European parliament
making it that much tougher for Mark Zuckerberg to prepare for a moment like this, because there's been no moment like this before here.
QUEST: Right, but if he is going to refuse to go to national parliament because you never end -- you know, you'd spend your entire life going to
them all. In the case of Europe, he can't go to one parliament and pardon the face, kill all the birds with one stone.
BURKE: It's a one-stop shop, but there's every reason to think that this is going to be that much tougher than before.
QUEST: Yes --
BURKE: The U.S. senators were criticized for being too weak in their questioning, the house came the next day, they were tougher and the
Europeans had had a chance to watch the Americans and they'll be even tougher.
And as you and I both know, having lived on both sides of the pond, Europeans take privacy more seriously. If we just look at this list that I
have, of all the tough privacy laws that the European Union has enacted, starting with the cookies law, that annoying pop-up that you get in the EU
telling you your information can be used or taken.
The right to be forgotten, Richard, that took Google by surprise, they didn't think that was going to be -- that was going to pass and cause a big
problem for them, and then GDPR, general data protections, that goes into effect next week.
This is the free eminent privacy law of our time made right here in the European Union.
QUEST: OK, the -- and indeed, of course and now inundated as I'm sure you are --
BURKE: Of course --
QUEST: With e-mails from everybody who's -- I want an e-mail is with asking for permission to continue sending the e-mails. Surely, all these
like GDPR will -- the true tests will be the enforcement mechanism after it comes in.
Does -- I mean, because if you're an obscure website in the middle of nowhere and somewhere else in the world, are you going to be worried about
BURKE: Lots of people. You and I were actually just at a conference in the Middle East and I heard from so many business leaders that they're very
concerned about having to comply with this even though they're in the Middle East because they of course have operations --
QUEST: But that's only --
BURKE: Here in the EU --
QUEST: That only depends if the EU has a strong enforcement mechanism.
BURKE: And lots of companies think they will, including Facebook. And there are a lot of people out there who believe very strongly that Google
and Facebook will be stronger after this because they'll be the only ones who can comply fully with this because they're investing so much --
QUEST: Right --
BURKE: Money in it to comply because they feel that they have to.
QUEST: Back to Zuckerberg before, he couldn't wow them and woo them, he could tickle them into the chin, he's a very perfective and very impressive
[16:55:00] BURKE: There was immense bleeding of the Facebook stock when Mark Zuckerberg went to testify during the heart of the Cambridge
Analytica's scandal. As he testified --
QUEST: And where's that stock now?
BURKE: As he testified the stock went up, it has gotten a lot of recovery, certainly Facebook would love to see that again when he testifies possibly
next week in Brussels, if it's next week, I'll be there in Brussels for QUEST MEANS BUSINESS.
QUEST: And we're looking forward, you just make sure you travel economy.
BURKE: And I'll bring a bell.
QUEST: No, you won't, get back, you're not qualified to operate this highly technical piece of equipment. Profitable moment after the break.
QUEST: Tonight's profitable moment, we continue now a look at Brexit and the role of the house of lords on tonight's program. Lord Bilimoria
sitting just over here made it quite clear that he wants to see a greater use of the house of lords to try and somewhat say frustrate a hard Brexit
or at least to immolate its worst excesses.
The reality of course is that in doing so, the house of lords could be seen as reckless. The truth of course is that the house of lords is the last
bastion in this country, yes, it may be unelected and it may have a variety of different political views, but one can't always rely on the house of
lords to do the sensible thing because you're not waiting until the next election, you use your major name in public service and you've got a pretty
good idea of what you're doing.
Which is why when we listened to his lordship tonight, we take it on board that actually when the house of lords says something like hang on! slow
down! look again! maybe we should all take a listen and hang on, slow down and look again.
And that's QUEST MEANS BUSINESS for tonight, I am Richard Quest in London. Whatever you're up to in the hours ahead, I do hope it's profitable, and
please, make it a point to join me tomorrow night where we'll be by Windsor Castle as our coverage really gets underway.