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Trump Cancels NFL Champions Visit, Cites Anthem Dispute; Trump Stoking Controversy Over National Anthem Protests; Iconic Designer Found Dead In New York Apartment; At Least 69 Dead In Guatemala's "Volcano Of Fire"; Putin In Austria On Rare Visit To Western Europe. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired June 5, 2018 - 15:00   ET




HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Live from CNN London, I'm Hala Gorani.

Tonight, Donald Trump hosts a celebration of America event. The White House is calling it after dis-inviting the Super Bowl champions, the

Philadelphia Eagles, for that the White House is calling a political stunt.

Also, ahead, the fashion world loses an iconic name as tributes pour in the honor to the life of designer, Kate Spade.

And the Miss America pageant says bye-bye to the bikini. We will speak to this year's Miss America herself to ask why they are scrapping swimsuits.

We're supposed to be watching a time-honored tradition right now. The U.S. president honoring the Super Bowl champs at the White House. But Donald

Trump abruptly canceled his invitation to the Philadelphia Eagles touching a firestorm of controversy.

Instead he's hosting what he calls a celebration of America with music from military bands. These are live images coming to us from the White House.

He is singing the national anthem just finished there.

Mr. Trump was furious because he learned only a fraction of Eagles players were planning to attend his celebration. So, he simply called it off.

Philadelphia's mayor issued a blistering statement calling Mr. Trump, a fragile egomaniac, obsessed with crowd size." He also says the president

is not a true patriot.


MAYOR JIM KENNEY, PHILADELPHIA (via telephone): I'm going to take my ball and go home basically is what he is saying is that is unless you kneel to

me, pay homage to me as president of the United States, I'm going to dis- invite you from the people's house. That's not what the presidency is all about.

The presidency is about every common person who looks up to that office and wants to be treated as an equal American. He does not want to treat people

equally. Only the people support him are the people he considers real Americans.


GORANI: So, this was the mayor of Philadelphia. Now what the president is saying over and over again that this is about players taking the knee. He

is saying that this is unpatriotic.

But no players on the Eagles took a knee during the U.S. national anthem last season and also those who did in other teams say it has nothing to do

with disrespecting the flag. It's about protesting police brutality.

Kevin Liptak is live at the White House with more. So, talk to us about what's going on right now at the White House. And why Donald Trump simply

didn't just agree to host the members of the team that wanted to show up and just call it a day?

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN WHITE HOUSE PRODUCER: Yes, this has really turned into an ugly dispute between the president and the Philadelphia Eagles and what

is normally a very non-controversial event. The White House saying that initially, over 80 members of the Eagles staff and players RSVP-ed to come

here to the White House.

They learned only on Friday that it would be a fraction of that indeed less than 10. They worked over the weekend to try and reschedule the event.

The White House said the Eagles kept proposing dates when the president would be out of the country.

And finally, the president, as you said, pulling the plug on Monday evening and that very strangely and strongly worded statement from the White House

saying that the Eagles disagree with their president on this issue of standing for the national anthem.

The White House press secretary, Sarah Sanders, following up today saying that the majority of the Eagles players had abandoned their fans. Now it's

not exactly clear what this event happening now is going to look like.

The White House billing it as a, quote, "celebration of America. " The president has got the Marine band out there. He has the Army Chorus.

There are a lot of flags out there on the south lawn. We would expect them to play the national anthem.

That, of course, is the issue that the president wants to highlight here. As you mentioned, none of the Eagles actually knelt for the national anthem

during this last season. But clearly the president thinks that's a very potent issue, an issue that may arouse his base of conservative supporters.

So, he sort of dove right into mentioning that in his statement last night barring the fact that that is not actually an issue for these players, at

least in the last season -- Hala.

GORANI: Kevin Liptak reporting live from the White House. Mr. Trump has been stoking this culture war over the national ahem for months in America.

Even calling NFL players who take a knee sons of bitches who deserve to be fired.

What message is this sending about freedom of speech and peaceful protest, not just to football players but to Americans? And the image of America

worldwide as well. We're joined now by CNN political commentator and Trump supporter, Jason Miller, and football writer for "Sports Illustrated,"

Robert Klemco.

[15:05:08] So, Jason, simple question to you, the president expected dozens and dozens of Eagles players. Then he learned that only a few would show

up, I think a couple of players, maybe the team owner and the mascot, I understand, was offended, infuriated, and decided to cancel the event.

It has nothing to do really with the national anthem especially considering no Eagles player knelt during the national anthem last season.

JASON MILLER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think this was a smart move for the president to pull the plug, as you pointed out and as Kevin

said, there were 81 folks from the Eagles organization, including players and coaches, who had confirmed that they would be there for today's event.

That dwindled down to some 10 or so people. So, there really was a bait and switch effort that was going on. I think to be very clear what was

happening here is a lot of the players were backing out. A lot of the players have had issues with the president because of his strong stand on

the whole anthem kneeling and over the flag issue.

So, when it got down to 10, it became clear that the Eagles were ting to play games here. The president went on offense and pulled the plug. So,

people around the world realize, this is a big political winner for the president.

Over half of the people in the country disapprove of people kneeling during the anthem, over half of people I think believe it's 54 percent support --

GORANI: You bring up the anthem. They didn't kneel during the anthem. Robert Klemco, how do you react to the fact -- Robert Klemco, how do you

react to Jason Miller's take on the situation, that this was a bait and switch by the Eagles?

ROBERT KLEMKO, POLITICAL WRITER, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": Yes, the Philadelphia Eagles players that are protesting the anthem are doing so

with raise fists. Chris Long showing support for them by putting a hand on their back and they are not protesting the national anthem.

They're protesting police brutality and racial inequality in the United States, which is something that gets overlooked when the president fires

another salvo in this ongoing culture war.

He is trying to paint this as disrespectful for America's troops and America's police officers. The players have said over and over again on

every team where there have been protesters that they honor the military by kneeling rather than sitting or staying in the locker room during the

national anthem and that their goal is for this country to be a better place.

MILLER: Then why are they doing it during the national anthem? Why not do it before the game or after the game or in the locker room? I mean, the

way this is being presented is a direct upfront to the national anthem.

It's disrespectful to the country and that's why so much of the president's base of support and more than half of the people around the country oppose

of kneeling during the national anthem.

I think that's why even the NFL's new policy of telling the players if you are going to object or you want to have some sort of protest, you need to

stay in the locker room and not do that out on the field in a way that's embarrassing to the league and that's why I think so many people are

supportive of this new policy.

GORANI: Robert?

KLEMKO: The NFL proposed this new policy as a means of appeasing President Trump. He came out either today or yesterday and said that staying in the

locker room is just as unpatriotic as kneeling or protesting during the anthem.

The point is, no matter when these players protest, the president is going to use it as ammunition to divide America. I mean, to use this to cast

black millionaires as ungrateful. When these guys aren't just fighting for themselves, there are fighting for the people in the communities they come


GORANI: Yes, but the thing, Jason, is -- this is a very narrow -- this is a very narrow view of what patriotism is. I mean, implying that because

someone is protesting police brutality in a way that you think is, you know, necessarily the way you would embrace or acceptable.

But that that means they don't love their country and they are dishonoring the military, and that's just not factually correct. So, why continue to

repeat that message?

MILLER: Well, again, don't just take it from me. I mean, take it from the reams of public polling that's been put out there as this fight has raged

on over the past six months or so.

GORANI: Jason, I thought you didn't believe in polling. Now, all of a sudden you believe in polling.

MILLER: I follow polling. So, that's something that I pay attention to. Again, more than half of Americans oppose this kneeling and I think on the

Trump supporters base it's two-thirds or 70 percent oppose this.

GORANI: OK, but what about your opinion, Jason? You support the president. Do you believe these football players who kneel during the

anthem don't love America? Come on.

MILLER: I think that when they are kneeling during the national anthem, I think that's disrespectful to the country, the people who fought for the

country. I disagree with the president in so far as to say that I do like the NFL's new policy.

I think the NBA, of all the sports leagues in the National Basketball Association, probably has gotten it best. They said, you will stand on the

court and you will stand during the national anthem.

I think Adam Silver has done a fantastic job as commissioner, but I would disagree with the president. I think the new NFL policy I think is a good

middle ground and I think it's a step in the right direction.

[15:10:00] GORANI: And Robert, you have written in the past that you think this is a distraction from bigger issues.

KLEMCO: Yes, it is. And every time we talk about this, and every time the president talks about it he never mentions all of the work that these

players do off the field in addition to the protests to try to work for racial equality in the United States.

I mean, these players love their country. That's why they are protesting. They are trying to hold it to the ideals that it purports to represent.

They listen to those words land of the free and they can't stand there and salute if they don't believe in it. How much more can you love your

country than that?

MILLER: Well, I think a lot of the players I think do make their voices heard in ways that don't come across this affront to people, who have

served in the military, who have defended the flag. I think there are a lot of ways you can make your opinion heard.

Again, to do it at that moment when we're doing the -- people are singing the national anthem, there's no way to interpret that other than be

disrespectful to the flag and to the national them.

You could pick any other time to do it. To show up at your job at this moment during a very patriotic point and essentially give it a middle

finger I think is terribly disrespectful.

GORANI: Last word to you, Robert.

KLEMCO: Staying in the locker room during the national anthem or turning your back to the flag. They kneel in order to honor it. Colin Kaepernick

when he started this protest sat on the bench and he had a conversation with Nate Boyer, who convinced him that kneeling in front of the flag and

facing it would be more respectful and get his point across.

It's people like you and Republican and conservative pundits and the president who push this narrative that these guys don't respect their

country when everything they've said is sort of contrary.

GORANI: All right. Thanks very much.

MILLER: It's disrespectful act to the country when they do it.

GORANI: This culture war and certainly this polarization in America evident at the White House and as a result of this event being canceled in

stark relief. Jason Miller, Robert Klemco, thanks to both of you for joining us on CNN this evening.

Now to this breaking news story, it broke in the last couple of hours and really the world of fashion is in disbelief tonight after the apparent

suicide of one of its biggest names.

Police say designer, Kate Spade, hanged herself in her New York apartment. They say a suicide note was found at the scene. The 55-year-old was best

known for her handbags. You see them in every store and department store practically.

She sold the Kate Spade brand around a decade ago but remained an influential name in fashion. In the past hour, the company tweeted, "Kate

Spade, the visionary founder of our brand, has passed. Our thoughts are with her family at this incredibly heartbreaking time. We honor all the

beauty she brought into this world."

Other tributes have been flooding in. The president's daughter, Ivanka Trump tweeted, "Kate Spade's tragic passing is a painful reminder that we

never truly know another's pain or the burden that they carry."

Ruth Moore, who is the director of "Style and Fashion News,' at the "Hollywood Reporter" joins us from L.A. with more. Such a shock today

learning of the apparent suicide of Kate Spade.

RUTH MOORE, STYLE AND FASHION DIRECTOR, "THE HOLLYWOOD REPORTER": I know. Her sunny aesthetic couldn't be any different than this tragic end. So, it

is really sad.

GORANI: So, young as well, 55 years old. What was she doing in the last few years? She sold her brand, her namesake brand about 10 years ago?

MOORE: Yes. I mean, she really became known in the early 1990s for creating this brand of handbags that was embraced by a generation of women.

It was really the it go-to bag for working women.

She also helped create this category of luxury, this as aspirational luxury where the bags were sort in the $200 to $500 range. She opened the market

to a lot of other brands like Tory Birch and Rebecca Minkoff, brands that we have seen since then.

She did sell her name and it was bought by a couple of very large fashion corporations. First, Liz Claiborne and then coach, which is now tapestry.

So, you know, she's kind of a cautionary tale about what can happen if you sell your name and sell your brand.

So, in 2016, she did create a new brand called Frances Valentine. It's very hard to strike gold in fashion twice. Unfortunately, the brand hasn't

gotten much traction.

GORANI: Right. I mean, and she leaves behind her husband and business partner and a daughter as well, tragically only 13 years old.

MOORE: Yes. Really, the tributes are pouring in from both sides of the aisle. You mentioned Ivanka Trump. Also, Chelsea Clinton tweeting that

the first handbag she ever had was her grandmother bought her a Kate Spade.

[15:15:02] So, it's something that seemingly everyone can agree on that she was really a fashion heroin.

GORANI: What was it do you think about her style that was so popular? Because we're in London here. There are -- I mean, it's big a brand

worldwide as it is in the United States where it's literally in every store. But still, I mean, I just quickly ask people that I know in France

and other countries, do you Kate Spade, and everybody knows the name pretty much.

MOORE: Yes. I think it was the epitome of that peppy preppie American style. She always incorporated a lot of fun and quirkiness into her

designs. Also, that she just really hit on this product that women wanted. A kind of professional bag that was just for them and their generation.

So, it wasn't something that their mom carried. It had a logo, but it was a very discreet logo. It was a logo of a woman who started a business,

which I think was also significant. It really had a lot of meaning to a lot of people.

GORANI: And recently, you were saying she tried to launch another brand. Do we know if she had regrets about selling her own name brand years ago?

What do we know about the last few years?

MOORE: She made a lot of money selling her brand. But I think like a lot of designers, she became disillusioned and kind of was left without the

creative outlet launched, Frances Valentine, actually looked a lot like Kate Spade. It had a very modern, preppie sensibility. I think though

like I said, striking gold is very hard to do twice. So, I think --

GORANI: It's very hard to do once.


GORANI: Ruth Moore, thanks so much for talking to us about Kate Spade, who police say apparently killed herself today, tragically. Thank you so much

for joining us. We really appreciate it.

MOORE: Thanks.

Still to come tonight, no homes and no survivors. A searcher says there's nothing left but bodies near Guatemala's Fuego Volcano. We are live at the

scene and it isn't often you see Vladimir Putin in Western Europe, but he was in Western Europe today. We will tell you what he was up to in Vienna.

A very interesting question a reporter asked him. It had something to do with why he is often half naked. We'll be right back.


GORANI: Well, near Guatemalan's Fuego Volcano the ground is so hot, it melts shoes. Ash is making it really hard to breathe. There's a threat of

mudslides that could bury villages, incredible video captured the moment this volcano of fire erupted.

Two days on, 69 people are confirmed dead. That number is sure to rise. There have been moments of hope though, like the rescue of this baby from a

mountain of ash. Take a look at this little one.

[15:20:03] Despite some rescues, it's a grim cycle of finding the dead and burying them. Journalist Louisa Reynolds is near where Fuego erupted, and

she joins me Via Skype. Talk to me about what you are seeing there very close to where

this volcano is erupting.

LOUISA REYNOLDS, JOURNALIST: Yesterday, I was visiting villages (inaudible) while the two villages in the summit (inaudible) that were

worst affected by the volcanic eruption on Sunday. (Inaudible) are still very dangerous. It's hard to access there. You need permission from the

rescue workers to go in there.

The heat is overpowering and there's a lot of ash everywhere on the ground. You have to be very careful where you are treading because all of a sudden

if you are not careful, you can tread on extremely hot ash and burn your feet and even suffer third degree burns if you are not careful.

There we saw the rescue workers working extremely hard to tear off the tin roofs on some of the homes to try and access these dwellings in search of

bodies. I mean, unfortunately at this stage, it's extremely unlikely that there will be more survivors. It's really all about trying to find the

bodies of the deceased so that their family members can bury them.

GORANI: It's incredible, Louisa, that that little baby was pulled out alive. Thank goodness, you know, just kind of a sliver of positive news in

the middle of all this misery. Where are people who are evacuating going? These villages are quite poor from what I understand. Do they have

anywhere to stay, spend the night? Do they have enough food, water?

REYNOLDS: The news of the rescued baby was really unique. It was obviously something that lifted people's spirits and lifted the spirits of

the rescue teams that have been working so hard. It was a (inaudible) discover to find this baby given that rescue workers had been moved to

tears yesterday when they found up to five children in one of the homes all dead due to smoke inhalation.

So, the fact that a baby was found alive and well today was a bit unique. As you say, there's a lot of people in the rescue shelters. These people

are very distraught, not only because they have lost family members, but also because they have been left homeless and have lost all of their


I'm correct to pointed out, these are people that live below the poverty line. Most are farm workers who worked in the sugar plantations and

surrounding the Fuego Volcano. These people are very distraught about the fact that they are being left homeless. There seems to be no government

plan as yet to --

GORANI: Louisa, their livelihood as well at risk obviously longer term. Louisa Reynolds, thanks very much for that report.

Vladimir Putin doesn't visit Western Europe too often, but he is in Western Europe today, in Vienna, and it is being watched very closely. It's the

first time the Russian president has visited a Western European country in almost a year. So why Austria?

Well, officially it's to mark the 50-year anniversary of a gas deal. But earlier in the year, when the majority of European countries were expelling

Russian diplomats over the Sergei Skripal affair, the government in Vienna, made up of conservatives, and a pro-Putin far right party did not expel any

Russian diplomats.

Ahead of the visit, Mr. Putin spoke to an Austrian broadcaster and made some interesting admissions on Donald Trump and the European. Let's go

live to Moscow. Matthew Chance is there. Was this visit then about sort of paying a thank you visit to the government in Austria that didn't throw

out Russian diplomats over the Skripal affair?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Vladimir Putin, Hala, you know, categorically denies that, as he always does when

he's confronted with anything potentially negative. There' no escaping the fact that as you mentioned Austria is one of the European countries that

didn't act after the Skripal poisoning to expel Russian diplomats. It broke ranks with its European Union colleagues.

[15:25:00] The coalition in that country, which combines a right wing and a far-right wing party together, has made no secret of the fact that it is

against the sanctions that the European Union have imposed against Russia for its various misdeeds in Crimea and Ukraine, Syria a as well.

It wants those sanctions lifted. So, I think it's probably no coincidence that Vladimir Putin decided to travel to Austria where he was expected to

get sympathetic hearing and indeed did receive a sympathetic hearing as the first trip that he would take after his re-election to the Russian

presidency in March.

And so, yes, I think there's some significance we can read into that. He was asked in that state interview that you mentioned by Austrian television

whether he was rewarding Austria for their soft policy towards Russia and he denied it. He said he doesn't want the European Union to break up.

He wants it to be strong and prosperous because it's Russia's biggest trading partner. So, he speaks that language of conciliation, but

actually, the Russian state funds anti-European parties to the tune of millions of dollars every year. It does something else in it actions.

GORANI: Sure. There was a very bold reporter from an Austrian broadcaster asked among other questions of Vladimir Putin why he likes to parade around

half naked. Listen.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): My last question, perhaps a little unusual, there are many photos of you half naked, which is rather unusual

for a head of state. These photos were not taken by paparazzi or tourists. They were published by the Kremlin. What is the story behind these photos?

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): You said half naked, not naked, thank God. When I'm on vacation, I see no need to behind

the bushes. There's nothing wrong with that.


GORANI: He was also asked about Donald Trump and his relationship with the U.S. president.

CHANCE: Yes, he was. The interviewer who you saw there from Austrian television asked him why it is after a year and a half of the Trump

presidency in the United States there hasn't been a sort of proper bilateral meeting between the two presidents.

Other presidents have had those kinds of meetings much earlier on than Vladimir Putin has with Trump. Putin gave the answer he has when

confronted with this question before, which is that, look, just to summarize what he said, the political environment in the United States is

so toxic, hard for the Trump administration to organize something like that.

He did say that the two presidents regularly. He said there were areas in which they cooperate such as international terrorism. On the telephone,

Donald Trump expressed concerns about an arms race which he also was concerned about as well.

So, he is pointing the way to possible areas of collaboration with the United States in the future -- Hala.

GORANI: Matthew Chance live in Moscow, thanks very much.

Still to come tonight, rolling up the red carpet. Donald Trump abruptly cancels a White House event honoring the Super Bowl champions. We will

talk about the controversy with a former NFL player.

The Miss America competition is going to look very, very different next year. I will speak to the current holder of the crown for her thoughts on

scrapping the bikini competition. We'll be right back.


[15:30:05] HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: The U.S.-led coalition fighting ISIS says it takes extraordinary efforts to protect civilians.

This after a scathing report by Amnesty International. Amnesty says the coalition's operation to dislodge ISIS from Raqqa, Syria, actually violated

international law and could amount to war crimes. Tomorrow marks one year since that push to kick ISIS out of Raqqa began. And CNN's Ben Wedeman

covered much of it for us. Ben joins me now from Beirut with more. What is Amnesty saying about civilian deaths in particular?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, what they're saying is that the number of civilians killed is far greater, killed and wounded they say in

the thousands far greater than what the coalition, the U.S.-led coalition said. The U.S. led coalition did put out a statement saying that they did

their very best to pick targets carefully and avoid civilian casualties. But certainly when you look at the case of Raqqa and to also to a certain

extent West Mosul where there was also great destruction and a high number of civilian casualties, one can't help to be reminded of the unnamed

American officer in Vietnam quote by Peter Arnett who said we had to destroy the town in order to save it.

Now, the U.S.-led Coalition apparently carried out thousands of airstrikes on Raqqa, tens of thousands -- I think 90,000 artillery rounds were fired

on what is by Middle Eastern standards a relatively small town. Now, Amnesty carried out 112 interviews with civilians at 42 different coalition

bomb sites. And one family, the Badrans (ph), apparently lost dozens of members of the family in addition to 10 neighbors. And their dilemma was

much like the dilemma of many other puzzle who were caught in Raqqa who said and initially they thought the U.S.-led coalition would only strike or

target ISIS militants, but they said, we were naive. It was too late. We were caught in the middle and they were faced with the dilemma of either

being killed by ISIS snipers as they tried to flee or killed by coalition airstrikes or artillery barrages if they stayed put. Hala.

GORANI: Can I ask you -- can I ask you quickly about numbers? Because the U.S.-led coalition -- I mean, Britain, I think, is only officially

admitting to a couple civilian deaths. The coalition as a whole is saying maybe a few dozen. But other estimates specifically in death toll in the

thousands. Do we have any number of scale here? Any idea of scale, I should say?

WEDEMAN: Well, what -- yes, the numbers we've seen range from between 1,600 to 2,000 civilians killed in Raqqa alone. As a result of the

fighting. Not exclusively, the U.S.-led coalition. But also perhaps by ISIS as well.

GORANI: All right. Ben Wedeman live in Beirut. Thanks very much.

Back now to our top story. Donald Trump's decision to cancel an event honoring the Super Bowl champion team, the Philadelphia Eagles after

finding out only a small number of the players planned to attend. The U.S. president held this event and said, celebrating America is what they called

it at the White House, with military bands. Mr. Trump linked his decision to the protests by some NFL players who kneel during the national anthem to

draw attention to racial injustice and police brutality. And no Eagles players did that last season. Mr. Trump actually pressured the NFL to

change its rules recently. Now, any player who will not stand for the anthem has to remain in the locker room.

[15:35:05] Our next guest says it's hard for people who have not experienced racial injustice to understand how important it is to have a

voice and platform for change. I'm joined by former NFL player Ephraim Salaam. Thanks for being with us. What do you make then of this abrupt

dis-invitation of the Eagles team to the White House? What was your reaction when you heard it?

EPHRAIM SALAAM, FORMER NFL PLAYER: Well, it's very egotistical, because you think about it, whether one player showed up or 80 players showed up,

it was an honor. It would have been an honor for whoever that player was to show up for this. Donald Trump decided that his ego had bene bruised.

Ten players, I think, out of the 80 that was supposed to come from the organization. Ten players are people from the organization were going to

show up. So for him that's a slap in his face. That's a strike to his ego. That's not a picture that he wants to take, so he decided to cancel

it and make this celebration about something that the protest wasn't even about and that was to honor America.

GORANI: What about the broader issue, this protest taking a knee, of course, now the NFL is saying that teams will be fined players do this and

they just stay in the locker room. What about the broader issue of how NFL players have some -- have been protesting police brutality and racial

injustice? Where does that go from here now?

SALAAM: Well, I was hoping that over the last two years we would come up with some intelligent dialogue and some solutions to what the actual

protest was about and that's the injustice that we're finding in our communities for people of minority depiction, but that's not what's

happening. It's become completely about, hey, you guys are disrespecting the flag, you guys are unpatriotic. What Donald Trump himself has shown

the propensity to be unpatriotic and dodging the draft. I don't even want to talk about that. What I want to talk about is you're putting in players

in a situation where they can't have a voice. They can't bring awareness to things that are directly affecting them in their communities, right?

This may not be -- GORANI: Ephraim, let me ask you this. Do you see this through -- I mean,

obviously, the players who have been kneeling are protesting racial injustice, police brutality against African-Americans. Do you think the

reaction would have been different if players protesting and their majority had been white, for instance?

SALAAM: Well, of course, I do believe it would have been different. I don't believe the president would have come out and called us all SOBs.

And I definitely don't believe he would have said, if you kneel, you should be out of this country. We're all Americans. Why would you -- why would

that even be an option for us to leave the country? We're Americans. We're trying to bring awareness to an issue that we see. We just saw a few

weeks ago Sterling Brown, the video has come out and everyone has come to apologized about how he was treated. That's what we're trying to bring

awareness to. That type of action is happening all over this country right now. There are not cameras everywhere, right? There are not people who

have footage of this, but this is happening. It's been happening my entire life. I myself had been at the hands of brutality. So to bring this to

the forefront and use the platform, the NFL as a stage, we could have rectified this, if we would all come together and come up with a solution

to help stop that injustice.

GORANI: And I was speaking to Jason Miller who is a supporter of the president. He said fine, you can protest police brutality just don't do it

while the national anthem is being played. It is disrespectful. That's the position of people who support with the president.

SALAAM: But this is the United States of America. This is the country that is built on freedoms and build on justice for all and all men are

created equal. Am I not right? Is that what this country is supposed to be about? So whether the protest happens at home, whether it happens

during the national anthem, whether it happens anywhere, no one is talking about the actual protest. All they're talking about is the disrespect.

So, what's the point? You're never going to convince Donald Trump that he needs to start talking about the actual issue and it is not unpatriotic to

take a knee at the national anthem. So just going back and forth this dialogue is not productive. We need to have productive dialogue and come

up with solutions.

GORANI: Ephraim Salaam, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time this evening on the program.

SALAAM: Thank you.

GORANI: Still to come tonight, I'll speak to Miss America as the competition says bye-bye to the bikini. What are your thoughts on this?

I'll ask her after the break.


[15:40:58] GORANI: A big change to one of the world's best known beauty pageants. Miss America is ditching its swimsuit portion. Instead, the

contestants will take part in a live interactive session with the judges about their achievements and goals. The competition is also aiming to be

more inclusive to women of all sizes. So maybe not conventionally super model or Miss America thin, for instance.

Here is how Gretchen Carlson, the chairwoman of the board of directors described the changes.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, CHAIRWOMAN, MISS AMERICA BOARD OF DIRECTORS: These are tough decisions to make, but we really understood that we had to move this

really into 21st century. And we're experiencing this Cultural Revolution that I know you and I have spoken about so many other times over the last

two years where women's voices are finally being heard and we knew that it was time to evolve as an organization as well. So we just really want to

take away the stereotypical part of the competition like the swimsuit and being judged on outward physical appearance. So that's what we're really

changing here. So I think it's -- to me, especially in this revolution that we're experiencing that women should stand up and be proud if they're

beautiful. Listen, beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. And at least for this -- we're not judging that anymore. Now if other pageants want to

continue to do that, that's their prerogative. But in fact, we're not even calling it a pageant anymore.

GORANI: Let's speak to Miss America herself. Cara Mund is the 2018 winner. She's on the phone.

I guess the whole point of Miss America in the past was appearance, maybe talent and a few general knowledge questions. Why even have a Miss America


CARA MUND, 2018 MISS AMERICA WINNER (via telephone): Yes. I think that's the stereotypical perception. But what you don't realize is that it's a

scholarship organization. And I know my personal involvement with it. I've earned over $90,000 to help my education. And so it's the scholarship

that makes us unique and also the talent portion. And as Miss America, I have not put on a swimsuit since the day that I was crowned. And so we're

evaluating our candidate. If that's not part of the job, then we shouldn't be evaluating them on it. So that's my perception.

GORANI: I don't know if you know Piers Morgan. He anchors a morning show here and writes a column in The Daily Mail. He says, this is the final

radical feminist nail in the coffin of the once much beloved practice of admiring a woman for her looks. How do you react to that?

MUND: I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But if it is a scholarship organization focused on empowering women, you don't need to do

that by wearing a swimsuit. It's going to give the audience a perception that they may not have had before. But I think a lot of people don't

realize is that these candidates tried the live taping of the show where they choose Miss America. We have a 10-minute interview where you're

getting grilled on controversial questions. You need to show that, yes, you're up to date on your news. It really is proving that, yes, she is a

scholar and she's earning scholarship dollars. And so it just makes sense that if that's not how the job of Miss America is they need to wear a

swimsuit, then we shouldn't have to evaluate our candidates on it.

[15:45:24] GORANI: But should any of it be about judging beauty? I mean, because -- in that case -- I just wonder why have it at all? Why not just

have it a male, female completion about achievement and talent alone? Should any of it. Do you think any portion of this competition that gives

some way to the physical appearance is OK?

MUND: It really is scholarship program. We have --

GORANI: Right. But I mean, it's also about beautiful dresses and fantastically gorgeous women like yourself and bikinis in the past. Maybe

not in the future. It's still been primarily about appearance though up until now.

MUND: Up until now, which is exactly why we're trying to change it. And as Miss America, doors of opportunity have opened for me that I never

expected. At 24 years old, I got to attend the State of the Union. I got to speak to universities across America on a platform, something that I'm

really passionate about, which is the Make-A-Wish Foundation. Children's Miracle Network Hospitals, but also about empowering women to get more

involved in politics.

And so I mean, Miss America is more relevant than ever. It's giving women the opportunity to go pursue their educational dreams, to give them the

tool box and the launching pad to be prepared for life after entering the career field. And so it's an exciting time, because we really are so

focused on giving women those opportunities at a time when society and other avenues may not.

GORANI: So, do you think the pageant is dead, basically, this idea that women wear pretty dresses and they parade around and show off their bodies.

Do you think that's now in the past? And are we entering a new era?

MUND: I think we're definitely entering a new era. As society evolves, so is Miss America. We actually have a change now in the evening gown portion

competition as well. And it's up to the candidate to choose what she would like to wear. So if she would want to wear a short cocktail dress, that's

fine. If she would want to wear a long gown, that's fine. Maybe she doesn't want to wear a dress. Maybe she wants to wear a pants suit.

There's a little more flexibility there. And there's no set qualifications or what it is to be a Miss America. Someone a spirit has embodied, right?

So a scholar, a service community and advocate for a change, someone who's willing to step up at a time when other people may choose to sit down.

Someone who's going to take a platform and a microphone to advocate and use it more than just a year of being Miss America but to make a difference

across her community, her state, her nation.

GORANI: All right. Cara Mund, Miss America, thanks so much for joining us here on the phone with your thoughts on the announcement that the swimsuit

competition will be removed from future Miss America pageants. Thanks very much.

MUND: Thank you.

GORANI: To a little bit of history on Saudi Arabia. The kingdom has issues its first driver's licenses to women. Ten women received licenses.

But officials expects another 2,000 to become legal drivers in the next week. The world's only ban on women behind the wheel ends June 24th. But

for many observers, this is good news tinged with not so good news. In the last few weeks, a number of activists who had protested against the ban

were arrested and jailed. Some of them still behind bars.

President Donald Trump may have pulled the U.S. out of the Paris agreement, but the issue of climate change isn't going away as easily as that. It's

an issue that will be thrown in focus this Friday when the planet marks World Oceans Day. But for many, climate change is already a part of

everyday life. Here's Jenifer Gray.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cajun culture is something that you do with your heart. You're born with it.

JENNIFER GRAY, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Phil and Don Richard are doing their part through music to help the Cajun culture coast to Louisiana tribe. A

culture that's under massive threat due to rapid land loss.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you lose the marsh, you lose it from the inside out.

GRAY: More than a football field size of land disappears here every 100 minutes.

PHIL RICHARD, MUSICIAN: The water keeps coming up like it's worse every year.

DON RICH, MUSICIAN: Wipes out a lot of the marsh, just eats away at it. It's like a bad cavity.

GRAY: More than 10,000 miles of canals have been dredged through Louisiana's bayous since 1950 to support the oil and gas industry, barges

and pipelines. Bringing millions of jobs to area, but not without a price.

[15:50:01] GARY LAFLEUR, NICHOLLS STATE UNIVERSITY: There's a whole lot of oil and gas infrastructure in this area. Especially in this area here is

right where the most accelerated coastal land loss on earth is happening.

GARY: Biology professor, Gary LaFleur says as more natural barriers disappear, salt water from the gulf floods in, eroding the terrain and

changing the nature of this grass marshland.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's the evidence that there used to be enough fresh water here. All these oak trees were alive.

GRAY: Once the lush barrier islands and marshes are gone, biologist Ron Boustany says the region has defense against increasingly powerful gulf

storms caused by rising sea levels and climate change.

RON BOUSTANY, BIOLOGIST: Without these marshes, we would just get wiped out here in the coast of Louisiana.

GRAY: And without the marshes, the Cajun life along the bayou vanishes along with the coastline.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything just disappears.

GRAY: The loss of industry is something that Dean Blanchard knows well. At the height of his career, Blanchard says he was pulling in between 80 to

100 full shrimp boats a day. Now, he's lucky if gets four.

DEAN BLANCHARD, OWNER, DEAN BLANCHARD SEAFOOD: Probably had more roads in the last 15 years than what we're seeing in the first 50 years over the

line. There was nothing but land and tree when you looked back there. Now all you see is water. They let it all go. Makes you want to cry, really.

GRAY: It's also bene threatening entire communities who called the bayou home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is Isle de Jean Charles right here.

GRAY: One of those community is Isle de Jean Charles, an area once the size of Manhattan, now one-third of the size is Central Park and shrinking

fast. The federal government has stepped in and is spending almost 50 million to relocate residence to higher ground as early as next year.

But some residents like Johnny Tamplet say they aren't leaving their homes.

JOHNNY TAMPLET, ISLE DE JEAN CHARLES RESIDENT: I didn't buy it to live here. I bought it to die here, because this is my paradise.

GRAY: A paradise likely to be lost to the sea in his lifetime. Tamplet says there's plenty of blame to go around.

TAMPLET: The biggest factor that brought on what's happening here is greed, the core of engineers, the oil companies, it's also the people.

They don't want to claim responsibility for what they did. It's killing southeast Louisiana.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This rock bank is an effort to just re-establish, thanks to the bayou.

GRAY: (INAUDIBLE) and his team are doing what they can to rebuild the marsh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lay the pipe and it'll pump the mud from the bottom of the lake into here and literally create overnight instant marsh.

GRAY: A project like this costs tens of millions of dollars and restores between 300 to 600 acres. But a lot more has to be done to save the land

and culture destroyed unabated for decades.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We invited industry because we need an industry. But we probably did not care as much as we should have about our homeland.

There's something that we have to pay back from the past and there's something that we have to do to make sure it gets better in the future.

GRAY: Jennifer Gray, CNN.


GORANI: More to come, including on a collision course with earth. How the planet had a very close call with an asteroid. You may not have been aware

of it. But it was a close shave. We'll be right back.


GORANI: Well, Budapest is home to some of the world's legendary swimmers, but whether or not there's someone in the water, the city's most stunning

tourist attraction might be the water itself. One of Hungary's greatest swimmers takes us on a historic tour.


KATINKA HOSSZU, HUNGARIAN SWIMMER: Hi. I'm Katinka Hosszu. I'm an Olympic swimmer and I'm here to show you one of my favorite spots in


We are here at the Citadella. I love to come here because this is probably the best view of the whole city of Budapest. This sight is the part of the

UNESCO World Heritage. For me having the Danube across the stream and Budapest and having all the bridges across, I think it's just -- such an

atmosphere to Budapest that it's really nice to experience.

[15:55:33] every time I come back to Budapest, obviously, I feel home. I love our streets. I feel the atmosphere. This is where I belong. If you

look around, there are spas everywhere in Budapest. We really love to go there and relax. Rudas Baths is one of the oldest spas in Budapest. It's

been here for about 500 years.

This is a must do when you come to Budapest (INAUDIBLE) there are so many options here.

And this one's got a pool with a view. But now, let me show you what's underneath its thermal baths. Budapest has one of the largest cave system

in the world. And this one is really unique, because it's all of it underwater and you can find it in the heart of the city. Let's check it


This cave system is called the Molnar Janos cave and it's actually huge. Seven-kilometer long has been discovered. And it's up nine meters deep. I

kind of want to get in the water.

Obviously, this is not something that is normally do here. They dive much deeper.


GORANI: Finally tonight imagine having someone hurdle someone from paying someone you're in trouble. Some things and also something hurdle towards

you at around 17 kilometers a second and there's nothing you can do to dodge it. Believe it or not that actually happened to all of us just a few

days ago.

Look at the top right of your screen. That was the moment an asteroid almost crashed right into earth as captured on CCTV in South Africa.

Luckily, it disintegrated in the atmosphere seconds before impact. NASA says it's only the third time that an asteroid has been discovered as it

came crashing down. Everyone's fine.

Thanks for watching tonight. I'm Hala Gorani. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is next.