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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Bizarre Interview, Man Arrested After TV Interview; House Of Horrors, New Fears After Three Bodies Found At Home. Aired 6-6:30p ET
Aired June 06, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, welcome to "Crime and Justice." Tonight,
a young man is in jail after police found a woman`s body in a creek. But they say he is the one who put her there. Yet he had a whole different
version of the story when the local TV cameras showed up. And strangely he told one reporter one thing. And another reporter another thing. So we`re
going to talk to the folks who talked to him. That is coming up.
Also, tonight we`re learning more about a suspected kidnapper caught after a high speed chase with a severely beaten woman in his car, and three dead
women rotting in his home. Kyle Peltz is on the story. What`s new today?
KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Right. Investigators have been searching under this man`s yard for days. Tonight, those results are in.
And there`s new questions about the unsolved death of one of his family members. We`ve got the scoop on all of that.
BANFIELD: Another dead woman in this story. Unbelievable. All right Kyle, thank you for that.
Also happening tonight, the Texas woman who is on trial for stabbing her nephew to death. Justin Freiman is on this case. And Justin, the secrets
that this family has, it`s enough to make you shudder.
JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: That is right. This woman was apparently having an affair with her nephew for about three years.
Finally, she ends up stabbing him in the back. Yet she claims self- defense.
BANFIELD: An affair with her own nephew. You had me at hello. All right. We`re going to look into that case, where that bruise came from as well.
And the soldier who allegedly stole an armored personnel carrier and then just took it for a spin and documented the three-hour, sixty mile joyride.
How he was finally stopped and the punishment that he could be facing.
Later on, the rapping, dancing doctor. She is accused of botching multiple surgeries and posting videos like this from the O.R. Featuring her
oblivious half naked patients and their naked body parts, in some cases pieces of their flesh. Dr. Boutte is facing numerous complaints and now
she is facing the cameras. We have the exclusive interview, you do not want to miss that.
First, though, to a tiny town in northern Pennsylvania where a UPS driver was the one to discover a woman`s dead body in a creek. He reportedly
flagged down a passing driver, and they worked together to pull that woman`s body out. And before long the police arrived and of course so did
the news media.
Those news teams began talking to neighbors, trying to figure out what happened. Just like they would at any crime scene. But this crime scene
was a little different, because this crime scene was directly across the street from the home of the man police arrested hours later for her murder.
And it turns out he is not just any man and he is not just any neighbor, he is that dead woman`s son. Though he just didn`t mention any of that when
he talked to the reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTHEW HAVERLY, SUSPECT IN MOM`S DEATH: I think there was kind of a hit and something happened, something went bad. And this is like a rural area.
So they just wanted to plant the body somewhere else besides wherever the hell they were from. It would be like a place where people from the city
would want to put a body, because most likely they wouldn`t be found.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Strange things to say when you`re the one arrested. Not long after. Joining me now, Tennyson Coleman is a reporter for CNN affiliate
WOLF. And he had the pleasure of conducting an interview with that young man. Also on the phone, Nathan Brown, a staff writer for "The Daily
Review," and defense attorney, Ashleigh Merchant is with me as well tonight.
All right. Thank you to all of you. Tennyson, you`re on the phone with me, you had been busy today. Obviously out in the scene, filing for your
local news program. This must have been fairly astounding to you to have learned that you were conducting the interview with the man who ultimately
ended up being arrested for this bizarre death. I dare say it will be murder, criminal homicide at the very least, abuse of a corpse is the very
least of the charge. Walk me through how this all came about. And how the story transpired.
TENNYSON COLEMAN, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WOLF: That is right. So definitely a bizarre turn of events. We went to the neighborhood to just
talk to neighbors about what happened. And just to hear their reactions. And I actually knocked on the first door that I saw cars parked out front
of. And that was the home where Matthew Haverly was living. And he answered the door. And I told him about what happened, and he appeared as
though he just found out about what had happened about an hour or so before. And he invited me in. He wanted to talk a little bit more about
it with the cameras rolling.
BANFIELD: He invited you in. I mean, this wasn`t a really difficult interview. It looks like -- I`m just looking at sort of the b roll, it`s
nicely staged, it is not a got you, you are not chasing him through the woods, he is happy to have you and your news crew come into his living room
and sort of look teary eyed about what`s happened, correct?
COLEMAN: Yes, teary eyed is the word. He actually at some point brings up his mother and how he is worried, because he hadn`t heard from her all day.
That he is hoping that it`s not her who was found in that creek.
BANFIELD: OK, well, let me actually play a piece of your interview. Because it is fascinating to hear him, you know, talk to you about how he
had just found out about all this bizarre news, knowing full well that he had given an interview sometime before to another news station saying, you
know, sometimes people dump bodies in this area. It is all so strange. Have a look at this for a moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAVERLY: I`m actually stunned. Because I just heard of this earlier today. I had no clue any of this went on. This area is a very tight
community. Anything that happens, the whole community knows about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Tennyson, I am trying to make sense of everything that -- his demeanor, his manner of speaking, his very calculated word choice.
COLEMAN: Right.
BANFIELD: And also what sounds like a slur. And I`m trying to determine - - and you were there, so you`re a far better arbiter of this than me. Was he under the influence, or did you get the sense he was being
extraordinarily cautious?
COLEMAN: You know, at the time he seemed very friendly, very open, and I wasn`t really sure what to make of it. I thought that there might be a
chance, just from what we talked about, that maybe his mother could be the victim at the time. But at that time the Coroner, no one had really
released her -- the information about the I.D. of the victim.
BANFIELD: OK. So you know what, wait, before you go on, because you just sort of let the cat out of the bag a little bit there. You had a reporter
sense that maybe his mother was the person who was discovered in the creek across the street. And I want to play the second little moment of your
interview. Because he gave some telling signs. It wasn`t even body language. It was actual English. It was remarkable what he said about his
mother in this interview with you. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAVERLY: It`s just weird to me that I find her cigarettes and her cup, this and that, but not her phone. That actually puzzles me. That actually
worries me, like where the hell is she? Like, I`m actually -- it gets me upset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So Tennyson, what the hell was that, was that him, all of the sudden telling you, oh, by the way, my mom is missing?
COLEMAN: Yes, he mentioned it in passing. When I first arrived. And I knew I had to press him a little bit on that. And so I asked him why he
felt worried about his mother, why -- was he that concerned to bring it up to me in passing? And that was his response to that question. And at
times he would get emotional, or teary eyed. And I didn`t know what to make of it at that time.
BANFIELD: Yes, I`m trying to figure out, is he trying to say to you, Tennyson that my mom has been missing for a few more hours that I expected
her to be on today or my mom has been missing for a long -- what was he trying to say?
COLEMAN: He was trying to say, yes, I haven`t heard from my mom all day, which is unusual, and I hope people find her. Or I hope she turns up. But
I don`t know exactly where she is.
BANFIELD: And the weird part is, he is telling a TV reporter, Albeit, Tennyson, you`re a great TV reporter, but you`re not the police. You`re
not the police working on the case of a dead woman found in a creek across the street from your house where you`re worried you haven`t seen your mom
all day. And he never told you ever that he was, you know, involved with the police, calling the police about his missing mom, oh, god, could that
be my mom that you discovered? He never said that, did he?
[18:10:05] COLEMAN: Never.
BANFIELD: The only thing he said about, you know, the victim being someone`s mom was in another TV interview which is weird. I`m just going
to play that if I can. This is, again, Matthew Haverly conducting a voluntary interview with news media as they arrived in the scene of a body
being found in a creek across him. Matthew Haverly straightly volunteers to give this interview. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HAVERLY: It`s sad to say that that is someone`s either daughter or mother or whatever, both, child.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Someone`s mother. It was, indeed. And he is now the one who`s facing criminal homicide and abuse of a corpse. Because he was arrested
right after Tennyson Coleman was conducting that interview. Nathan Brown, I want you to jump in on this as well. The Daily Review a local
publication, this has got to be a pretty big story for you all as you are covering this. Can you put this into context for me?
NATHAN BROWN, STAFF WRITER, THE DAIL REVIEW: Of course, yes, it`s definitely a big case. We don`t get many murders, if any, around this
area. So, yes, when it comes across that a son has possibly killed his mom in any area it`s going to be a massive case to, you know, to cover.
BANFIELD: Yes, But then also, Nathan, he does these bizarre interviews with one news outlet saying, gee, you know, sometimes the mob type folks
dump bodies here, because we`re real rural. That is hard to say.
BROWN: Yes.
BANFIELD: And then he goes on to do another interview with another TV outlet, saying my mom`s missing, it`s kind of strange, my mom is missing,
this is very complex and strange, isn`t it?
BROWN: That it is, yes. He is correct with saying that bodies have been dumped in this area before. But then he goes, like you said, to another TV
station and changes his story, essentially.
BANFIELD: Yes. I can`t quite make heads or tail that other than the fact that, Tennyson, when you were wrapping up your interview, I suppose you
were a bit surprised to see the local authorities show up and ask him to come down for a couple questions. Can you describe what happened?
COLEMAN: It was stunning. I mean, I didn`t even take more than two to three steps off of his front lawn when two state trooper vehicles pulled up
abruptly and they hopped out of the car. And at that moment, as they`re pulling up, I realize, without a shadow of a doubt, whether he is the
suspect or not, that his mom is the victim. I mean, I just had that sense. I wasn`t sure if they are coming to notify him or to arrest him. So I --
they actually got out and made me go way down the street.
BANFIELD: Like I think I`m looking at your video right now that you were pushed so far down the street you`re having to take these images from this
far away. But you can clearly make out they`re putting cuffs on him in that picture. These are your pictures, right?
COLEMAN: Definitely, yes, yes.
BANFIELD: And so you knew right away, oh, my god, I just interviewed the man that -- he is not a neighbor who`s interested in, you know, or
concerned and worried about, you know, what`s happening in this safe, lovely neighborhood of his, he is the guy they`re arresting for this.
COLEMAN: In the comfort of his own home, yes, behind closed doors.
BANFIELD: You had spidey senses that there was something off about him during that interview, right?
COLEMAN: Right. I mean, like you said, you can kind of see the demeanor is very calculated in hindsight. I wish there were things maybe I would
have noticed or recognized in the moment. You know, but there were still clues there.
BANFIELD: You know Tennyson, I`m just going to go on the record here and say who among us would imagine the guy we`re interviewing is the guy
they`re going to arrest in minutes? Just in minutes. That is not something that anybody could plan for or even train for, you know, in the
business of journalism. Ashleigh Merchant, jump into this conversation, if you will. The things that he says are weird, OK.
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Correct.
BANFIELD: But I could put a different prism, the defense attorney`s prism in front of me, and I could make sense of all of it. Is that crazy?
MERCHANT: Well, you know, you could say that he was on drugs. You could say that maybe he was under the influence of alcohol. Or he could just be
grieving. He had just found out his mother died. And so perhaps he was grieving. I don`t think that is the answer. But you could argue that.
I think it`s more likely that he was under the influence of something. And I`d want to see what his record was. But I can tell you the police have to
have something. Because they got an arrest warrant, they arrested him so they`ve got to have something that indicates that he is the one who
committed this crime.
BANFIELD: So that is interesting. Nathan Brown, I want you to jump in here. Because the warrant that they got when they went back to that house
where Tennyson was doing the interview with Matthew Haverly. They got a bunch of stuff out of the house, they got a black tarp that was similar to
the tarp that his mother was found dead in the creek across the street. They got a wheelbarrow.
They found damage to some of the doors inside that looked like a sign of a struggle. Apparently Matthew Haverly admitted to them that he grabbed his
mom by the arms, that they had a pitched relationship, and that there were actually bruises on the arms of his mom. Is there anything I`m missing?
Did they find anything else? Is there anything more from the story that connects him to what happened with his mother?
BROWN: At this point, no. You have everything listed that would be found in the affidavit of probable cause that the state police provided, you
know, the court system here. So at this time that is everything that, you know, that police had in reference to the search warrant.
BANFIELD: There`s this weird little detail about a shoe though. There is a shoe that was found on -- you know about that?
BROWN: There is a shoe.
BANFIELD: What do you know about that? Tell me.
BROWN: Well, they found a shoe downstream from the -- Patricia`s body. And they then later found one on the bank closer to her, a matching shoe.
And in the proximity to the home.
BANFIELD: I thought the shoe was on the way to the creek, meaning that it sort of might have been in the wheelbarrow and spilled out before the body
got to where it was ultimately found. Here`s a fascinating detail that I know, Ashleigh Merchant, you will chew on, and I`m just going to have to
let you chew on it. He has apparently turned down a public defender. You live with your mom, you`re that age, 38 years old, and you probably
shouldn`t be turning down a public defender.
MERCHANT: No. And you shouldn`t be giving interviews.
BANFIELD: Amen to that. Tennyson Coleman, Nathan Brown, thank you. Ashleigh Merchant, I am going to ask you to stay put, we got more work or
you to do tonight. Because we`re learning more about that haunting discovery that was made at the home of Stewart Weldon.
Police were scanning that yard for any new evidence that might yield information about those three rotting bodies that were found inside his
home, we are going to take a look at what, if anything, they have found, and what new strange twist has been added to this story, and I am going to
give you a hint, a relative who`s missing and dead and unsolved. That is next.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: You know, old houses have a lot of secrets. By nature, because they`re old, right? But in Springfield, Massachusetts, there is an old
house that may have held a lot of secrets. The thing is, these might be kind of new secrets. They`re certainly secrets that investigators have to
figure out in order to determine how three women ended up dead and rotting inside that house.
Police found their bodies this week. But it was months after two of them had been reported missing. And police spent the past few days conducting
something like underground imaging scans, all while they wait to find out how those three women died from their autopsies. And it is something the
neighbors might be eager to hear as well since, for them, living so close by, this case hits close to home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEFAN DAVIS, NEIGHBOR: The first time that I smelled the stench was Wednesday evening when the garage door was open completely. That is when
the stench came out and was from the garage and it smelled like road kill or something, something that died on the road and was wet and it -- and
myself and five other people was like, oh my god, there`s a really bad smell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: While those bodies are being examined, police are talking to this man, the man who reportedly lived with those bodies, 40-year-old
Stewart Weldon whose dark past is coming to light after he was arrested on Sunday for kidnapping yet another woman, this one who survived. He is
accused of raping her, and beating her and holder her captive in his house for the last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA JENKINS, AUNT OF STEWART WELDON: We just can`t believe it, because he does have a kind heart. He really does when he is, you know, Stewart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, then, while they`re talking to Stewart, some in the community are asking about other dark secrets about his family. Like the
female cousin who was found dead years ago. And whose case remains unsolved as of tonight. I want to bring in Stephanie Barry, reporter for
"The Republican," also certified death investigator and the professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan and defense
attorney, Ashleigh Merchant is still with me.
Stephanie Barry, that last little thing really stands out in this case tonight, a cousin, a female cousin who was killed and whose death is a
mystery, and unsolved. What do we know about that?
STEPHANIE BARRY, REPORTER, THE REPUBLICAN: So not a whole lot. She was killed in 2010. And I don`t believe her cause of death was released until
sometime after that. The cause of death was actually strangulation. She was not found at her own home or any home related to any address related to
Stewart Weldon. And thus far I`m not getting the sense that there`s any particular connection between the current case and her death in 2010.
BANFIELD: I would find it so hard to fight that sense given the fact pattern that is coming out in this current series of cases. And just so
I`m really clear it all started with a taillight. OK? Police stop a guy with a taillight that is out. And he outruns them and crashes and they
discover a brutally injured woman in his car, not from the crash, from stab wounds and beatings, and likely a broken jaw. And this woman says I`ve
been his captive slave for over a month.
And when they go to the home they find three dead bodies, three women. And then they learn that his cousin, a young woman, strangled back in 2010, and
that case is still open. So you can imagine, my spidey senses suggesting that needs a lot more looking into.
But Stephanie, the question I have is this. The aunt who was interviewed who said he is really a nice person, you know, when he is Stewart. Is
there anything we need to know about what the family can tell us, or is his family just staying mum now about the kind of person Stewart is when he is
nice and the kind of person Stewart might be when he is not?
BARRY: Well, so the aunt spoke out a little bit to a couple of out lets. My sense is that the family started circling the wagons is the attention to
Stewart and his family intensified. I am sure there is a lot more information to be grim from his family members. And she was living with
his mother at the address in question. At the time.
And so far she has not appeared at the scene. She has not spoken to the media, and she has not been staying at the house. So I`m quite sure
there`s lots more information to be solicited from the family. But we`re so early in the investigation right now, that there are more questions than
answers.
BANFIELD: I`ll tell you what, there is one thing I can tell you about being a street reporter for a long time, Stephanie, I know you know this,
it`s really hard to come home when your house is surrounded in crime tape and there are uniformed police with their arms folded over their chest
barring entry. I mean, that is really hard. So, I can fully understand why his mom is not coming home tonight.
And it`s also pretty clear that the ground penetrating radar has been going on for several days. Stephanie, we`re hearing that there were giant piles
of dirt that neighbors said were in front of the home today. Do we know anything more about the excavation process or that ground penetrating radar
and what it might have yielded?
BARRY: So in terms of what it yielded, I learned that the report is complete. They`re not releasing the results. The piles of dirt could have
come from the garage, could have come from the backyard. It could be being hauled away as evidence. But currently the scene is all but wrapped, and
police are keeping a perimeter around the property.
But I believe that investigative efforts in earnest have concluded at this time. It`s interesting to note that police and a cadaver dog were out at
Weldon`s former address in Westfield today. It`s my understanding they didn`t turn anything up, but it`s still interesting to note that they`re
expanding their search.
BANFIELD: I`m going to ask you, Joseph Scott Morgan, all these pictures I see of guys walking in and out of the home with those giant evidence bags,
one of them at least at one portion of the video looked to be pretty heavy. And while you`re contemplating all the things that investigators would pick
up in a home other than the obvious, I want to play this from the district attorney, because this was the D.A. responding to questions that reporters
were asking about taking a second look at that cousin given the material that they`re finding at his home currently. So here`s the D.A. on, you
know, this new front, the dead cousin from 2010. And then I`m going to ask you on the other side about what you think they might be grabbing and
sticking in those bags. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then on that case it looks like it was still open. She was found dead in her apartment on Tyler Street in 2010.
Lashawn Weldon is a relative of the suspect. Is that case still open?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as I know. We haven`t looked at that specifically, you know potential connections we`ll make as time goes on.
But again, it`s very early in the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joseph Scott Morgan, it`s very early in the investigation. When you`re combing through a house, as a death investigator, I know the obvious
signs, the things that they would look for. But I want you to tell me about the not so obvious and then obviously the additional stuff now that
they know there`s a mysterious death in the family from 2010.
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC, JACKSONVILLE STATE UNIVERSITY: Yes, you have to factor all that together, Ashleigh. In this particular
case, you know, we`ve got bodies dispersed through this man`s property. I`m even hearing one report that a body could have been buried beneath a shed.
The reporter had mentioned those large piles of dirt in front of the home. I suspect that those are going to be taken off and probably sifted through
very carefully. And let`s apply that same logic to everything that`s contained within that structure.
The idea is, once they have a search warrant subsequent to information they`ve developed in what could possibly be deaths involving foul play,
they`re going to catch -- they`re going to cast a wide net to catch a lot of fish.
That means everything from clothing articles to bedding, any kind of objects that could have been used as a weapon, because they want to get
everything on this first sweep so that they can process it, particularly now in this day and age of DNA, and connectivity going back between him and
these various victims, which they will have DNA profiles on each one of these subjects involved in this case.
And might I add one more thing. In my dealings in cases like this, I don`t think that we`re at the beginning here. I think that we`re at the end. The
thought is, is that he didn`t just start killing people out of the blue.
As the cynic that I am, I`m thinking that this started sometime in the distant past. He`s probably not new to this. So there will be other things
that will turn up. It`s going to be interesting to hear what the family has to say about this.
BANFIELD: Yeah. We want to be real clear, he`s charged with kidnapping, assault to rape, kidnapping, threat to commit a crime, resisting arrest.
But so far, he is not charged with any murder. I do want to mention this, though. Take a look at that basement picture from the Zillow (ph) listing,
if we could pop that basement picture up.
You know, sometime ago before the story broke, there were all these pictures. And as one of the real estate websites, this is the basement. And
now we`re hearing reports from a neighbor that -- rather not from a neighbor, sorry, from Stewart`s (ph) mom, that she reported a foul odor
coming from the basement. And we have this picture of the basement. So you can imagine the kind of forensics that`s going on down there.
I`m going to ask you guys to stay put if you can. I have this tonight, we`re learning more details about the suicide of Kate Spade, famous
designer Kate Spade. Her family finally speaking out. Her husband, Andy, here seen pictured with her has released information the day after Kate`s
death.
You`ll know her as the handbag designer, accessories designer. She apparently suffered from depression, Andy says, and anxiety for many years.
He said in a statement to CNN that she was actively seeking help and that she was working closely with her doctors. Andy Spade adds that the night
before Kate died, she sounded happy.
He said there was no indication, there was no warning that his wife Kate would do this, would take her own life. I think a lot of people still
really confused by that story, just a woman who really seemed to have it all, right? Money, fame, success, lovely family, and then suicide. National
Suicide Prevention hotline, please if you`re feeling this way, please give them a call, they save lives.
When a Texas woman has an affair with her own nephew, that is certain to raise eyebrows. When it turns out that nephew gets a knife to the back and
dies and all signs point to his aunt being on the handle of that knife, the question arises what could have driven her to allegedly kill him? You`re
going to hear her own words, next.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: A 37-year-old woman in Texas could spend the rest of her life behind bars because she stabbed her lover to death. That`s not unusual. We
hear those stories, right? But this lover, just so happened to be her 25- year-old nephew as well. That`s a story you don`t often hear.
Police said that these two apparently had been having an affair for three years and hiding their weird hookup from the rest of the family. But
according to Aunt Andira, picture here with the black eye on the left, that love affair got a little less love filled when that nephew/lover on the
right started abusing her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up close to him and I covered my head and then he would tell me to put my hands down to my side. And he would tell me that
if I covered my face then it`s going to be a closed fist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:40:00] BANFIELD: According to Aunt Andira, this nephew named Mohammed wasn`t just violent in private either. She said to the jury deciding her
fate that he actually punched her out in public at a Dunkin Donuts, punched her right in the face too.
He also allegedly called her a whore for sleeping with her husband, the guy who is his uncle. And he also apparently threatened to end her life if you
believe her. She says Mohammed was banging on the windows the very day that she ended up stabbing him, but she says she did that out of self-defense.
The weird part is a sheriff`s deputy had just been to the house before all of this, responding to a weird call about a burglary. But that deputy found
that, yes, the two of them were arguing, but Andira said everything was OK. And moments later, she had a knife in her hand and he had a knife in his
back. So you make sense of that.
With me now is Jesse Weber, host of "Law and Crime Network," also forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Daniel Bober. Defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant is still
with me. I know you all are trying to sort this one through because it is not only strange, but then it`s also typical, right? I did it out of self
defense.
Jesse Weber, start with me, how convincing, you`ve been watching this case, how convincing is her story and her testimony from the stand that she was
this battered woman who had to do this or suffer the consequences?
JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAW AND CRIME NETWORK: Ashleigh, you`ve said it best, we`ve seen these cases before of battered woman. This one is a little
different because it is incestual.
BANFIELD: I would say it`s a lot different.
WEBER: It`s very different. But I don`t think it`s beyond the realm of possibility when you look at her mug shot right there and she has a black
eye. The question is, when did she receive that black eye? Did she receive it the day of the stabbing?
BANFIELD: Was it?
WEBER: Did she receive it -- they are not sure. They are not sure. The police who first came to the scene said that they believed this happened
right when they arrived, but not before the stabbing.
There`s other -- the prosecution says those injuries she had, those weren`t from the day of, those were days before. They`re not saying that she wasn`t
abused. The question that really becomes for the jury was, was self defense imminent? Did she need to take decisive action at that very moment? Or was
this somebody who just had enough?
BANFIELD: Did somebody call 911 reporting a burglary? Because clearly the neighbors said they were yelling and screaming, there was a pitched row
going on. Explain the visit by the cops, where they said, nothing to see here, we`re just going to mosey on.
WEBER: This is the weird part about the story. So police were I believe by Andira herself. And they arrived and she said, wait a second, wait a
second, I don`t want to press charges, I thought he was an intruder, everything is OK, everything is OK. And they left. They left. It was only a
short amount of time after that --
BANFIELD: No spidey senses that this person looked terrified, that this guy looked (INAUDIBLE), that she had a black eye, nothing like that?
WEBER: They felt -- you know what, it was seemed to be a misunderstanding. They leave. And then the next time they show up, he`s stabbed in the back
and he`s dead in the front driveway. I mean, this story is bizarre, considering the fact that police first were there.
BANFIELD: Yeah.
WEBER: First were there. It could have been prevented. Now hindsight is 20/20, who knows what was actually going on at that very moment?
BANFIELD: OK. So, Dr. Bober, jump in. As a forensic psychiatrist, maybe you can help me sort through what the jury is going to have to think
through. Because there are hard pieces of evidence like text messages that Mohammed sent to her. You`re going to be put in a coma. I mean, really,
really cruel threats.
And then there`s her testimony, that she was threatened by him, that if he looked in the windows, and didn`t see her sleeping on the couch, he`d
assume she`s upstairs sleeping with her husband and that your life is over, your kids are over, you`re dead. This is her testimony.
I don`t know that we have a text to back that up, but right now we have her word to back that up. And then of course there are these injuries. As a
forensic psychiatrist, do you have to be super convincing that this woman was abused? Does it matter when a jury sees a knife in someone`s back, not
in their front?
DANIEL BOBER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, Ashleigh, this is like the standard battered woman defense. It really comes down to what your
other guest said which is the imminence. In other words, we know that he was controlling, that he got off on the power, that he abused her, and that
the relationship was odd from the very beginning because it was incestuous, he was a family member.
But the question was, was there actually an imminent threat and did she feel like she needed to act right at that moment?
BANFIELD: So, I`ll tell you something, family members have weighed in, clearly this story is all in the family, right, weird. Family members have
weighed in. Some of them have said he`s a bad worker, he has a bad temper. Other family members said that`s not true, he wasn`t that bad at all.
One family member said, I need protection after I testify. So clearly that`s a mess. That`s a real mess. But maybe what`s messier is the
oxycodone and amphetamines that Andira says he was on, and the prescription for Adderall that he was definitely on, that one expert says was way too
high of a doze.
[18:45:01] So could that have made him dangerous? Well, all three of you, think that through. Quick break. Back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We are still talking about that weird love affair between a Texas auntie and her nephew that ended with literally a stab in the back.
[18:50:04] Because that aunt said her nephew/lover was abusing her and that she killed him out of self defense.
But now it is up to the jurors to figure it all out. What could have made this nephew so violent, and whether it`s possible to kill someone out of
self defense if you stick them in the back with a knife.
My panel is still with me. Ashleigh Merchant, how about that last little nugget, the fact that the knife was in the guy`s back? Does that matter a
lot?
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that is going to be the most important factor, I think. I think the jury is not going to like either of
these people. They`re not going to like her because they`re going to think that she was cheating on her spouse. They`re not going to like him because
there is a lot of testimony that he is a violent person.
Now, I think they will have a level of sympathy for her because this was an arranged marriage, this was her husband`s nephew, not hers, her blood
nephew. So I think they`re going to have some level of sympathy. There`s a lot of testimony that he`s a very violent, controlling person.
But what it`s going to come down to is in that split second when she put that knife in his back, was she feeling as though that was her only choice
to save her own life.
BANFIELD: Yeah, there`s report that she says he punched holes in their wall, that he broke light fixtures and all those nasty threatening texts as
well.
Dr. Bober, there is this little piece of information about Mohammed`s prescription of Adderall, 60 milligrams a day, and another forensic
psychiatrist was in that courtroom, one of your colleagues in the business, saying that was almost too high. That`s significant, but why?
BOBER: It`s too high, Ashleigh. Definitely on the upper end of dosage range, probably actually over what you would prescribe someone for, for
example, for ADHD. These are generally safe medications. They have been used for over half a century and in prescribed dosages, they`re fine.
But once you start getting into the high end of the dosage range, it increases the chances of things like psychosis, paranoia, auditory
hallucinations, delusions. Even in normal therapeutic doses, it can increase irritability and aggression. So there is something to be said for
what this other forensic psychiatrist stated in court.
BANFIELD: OK. Last little piece, I`m going to land this on all year palates here and it`s weird, Jesse. Two of Mohammed`s brothers, the victim,
right, two of his brothers were arrested for allegedly beating up an uncle who defended Andira. What is with this family?
WEBER: That`s a great question. We keep hearing about violence in this family. These two brothers of the victim here allegedly beat up their
uncle, and not just beat him up, he suffered allegedly blood -- brain in his -- blood in his brain.
BANFIELD: Bleeding in the brain. Oh, my God.
WEBER: The braking of facial bones. These are serious injuries. You keep hearing stories from witnesses that this family had a history of violence.
Not only that, I have to say it, one of the reasons that Andira didn`t come forward, she says if she came forward and talked about this affair, she
might be a victim of an honor killing. So that is something that the jurors have to take into effect, what this family is on.
BANFIELD: I don`t think that`s so crazy, an honor killing, because we know about that, and also the fact that these brothers, two brothers were
arrested for beating up an uncle that badly, yeah, I think an honor killing sounds plausible in this particular case. What a horrible story. Jesse,
thank you for bringing us such a horrible story.
WEBER: Sorry, Ashleigh. I wish I had something --
BANFIELD: We will have you back another time. Daniel Bober, thank you. And Ashleigh Merchant, I`m going to ask you to stay put.
There is this news to tell you tonight, Santa Clara County superior court judge Aaron Persky is now a former superior court judge. The voters there
booted him from the bench after outrage over his six-month prison sentence for the so-called Stanford rapist, Brock Turner. Remember that? How it
ignited a recall petition? Well, Persky becomes the first judge in California to be recalled since 1932.
Most police chases involve flashy cars and wild driving. They don`t involve an armored personnel carrier, though, like this, lumbering down the
highway, police in tow. And not just one of them, a whole lot of cruisers in tow. One more thing straight ahead.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight, and it is a police chase unlike any that we`ve seen before. Instead of a speeding car racing down the
interstate, it was this guy. Take a look. Look close. That is an armored personnel carrier with a top speed of 40, 40 miles an hour heading down a
Virginia highway with cops in tow.
Luckily the police did catch up with that stolen APC. Took a few hours though and it happened later in Richmond. They say the driver is a first
lieutenant with the Virginia National Guard whose unit was conducting routine training when he allegedly went rogue. Twenty-nine-year-old Joshua
Yabut was taken into custody and he`s now charged with DUI, and a host of other charges as well.
[19:00:00] Next hour of "Crime and Justice" starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): She has been dancing to the music and rapping to the music. But now she is facing the music.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We started this with a contestant. I had other non- contestants, who is randomly, can you do a video of me after my procedure like that?
BANFIELD: The dancing doctor, accused of botching surgeries and exposing patients. So what does Dr. Boutte have to say for herself?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I thought, you know what, I will choose a safe interval, and I know I have people -- a beautiful supportive staff in the
OR.
BANFIELD: We have got the exclusive interview.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These days you don`t know who you live next to. Anyone could be anybody next door.
BANFIELD: Tonight, digging deeper into the disturbing back story of a man in whose home three dead bodies were found.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s like something from the movies.
BANFIELD: Three women, all decomposing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never thought the worst.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t have any enemies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t deserve any of this.
BANFIELD: And now reports of yet another dead woman in his past, a cousin mysteriously killed years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are intensely searching, as you can tell.
BANFIELD: So much death and yet one woman survived. What were the plans for her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does have a kind heart. He really does. When he is, you know, Stewart.
BANFIELD: She was his aunt. He was her nephew. And they were having an affair.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would get close to him and I would cover my head.
BANFIELD: Now she is charged with his murder. But she says her nephew was the attacker.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would tell me to put my hands down to my side. And he would tell me that if I covered my face then it`s going to be a
closed fist.
BANFIELD: So was this self-defense or a convenient story?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
A lot of people want to be famous and they put a lot of work into getting their time in the spotlight. But they may not want the kind of spotlight
that Dr. Windell Boutte finds herself baved (ph) in. She is the Atlanta area cosmetic surgeon and self-described doctor of the stars who is also
been a bit of a You Tube sensation.
Her page was said to be chock full of videos like this that she made along with what looked like a pretty willing staff in the operating room. And it
seems they were made with the intent to go viral with Dr. Boutte dancing and singing and rapping.
And here`s the problem. Her patients on the table are mostly naked and seemingly unaware of what`s going on. And in some cases, it looks like
this whole thing is mid-procedure.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
BANFIELD: This is -- just so we are clear all that digitization and the fuzziness, we can`t make it out the nudity, we did that. We did that. But
the stuff you see on the internet, it`s clear as a bell. You can see everything.
Dr. Boutte might have just thought that these videos would launch her to fame or make her the go-to cosmetic surgeon and she is definitely famous
tonight, but maybe not for the reason she had hoped. She is famous because some of her patients really don`t like these videos and they are not happy
with her work either, saying that they were featured without their permission, including their naked body parts, not to mention the patients
who accused her of botching their surgeries.
So rather than getting shares on the Internet for these videos, Dr. Boutte is getting complaints. But tonight she is also getting to tell her side of
the story exclusively to HLN.
And I want to bring in a couple guests, if I can. Tina Douglas is a freelance investigative reporter. Also Latoya Rideau is a patient of Dr.
Boutte. Susan Witt is the attorney for many of Dr. Boutte`s patients and defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant is with us as well.
Thank you to all of you for being with me.
So I want to just start right off the bat with what Dr. Boutte is saying in an exclusive interview to HLN. Our Mike Galanos got this interview with
Dr. Boutte. And he really put it in kind of the terms that we all might. This looks more like, you know, something that should be left in the club
and maybe not in the OR and he got her reaction to that. So let`s play that and talk about it. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:05:55] MIKE GALANOS, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Looking at it now, you are thinking if I`m vetting a doctor, and I`m seeing me on a table and the
doctor dancing, wait a minute, no music, focus, that`s my body and you with a scalpel.
DR. WINDELL BOUTTE, DANCING DOCTOR: Absolutely.
GALANOS: So address that. Did anybody say, wait a minute, doctor, that`s cute at the club, but not in the operating room?
BOUTTE: Oh, no, quite the opposite. When we started this with a contestant, I had other non-contestants, just randomly, can you do a video
of me? After my procedure like that? Or in one case, can you do the video in surgery? Because, you know what, doc, after three kids, I have been
carrying this lap baby for 24 years and I have waited for this moment. So can you just maybe, you know, I need to cut this away. And this is
liberating to cut this away. Because I have had to camouflage, I have had people ask me how many months pregnant I am. And you are my, you know, in
this sense, you`re my savior. I want you to help me out here.
GALANOS: Do you see some patients said, during the procedure go ahead, for me I want it chronicled, let`s video it.
BOUTTE: And they chose the song in most instances. When you are doing this part of the surgery, this is the song I want, I want "Brick House"
that`s what I want to look like after, you know. I thought, I`ll choose a safe interval, and I know I have people supportive, a beautiful supportive
staff in the OR that are monitoring everything that`s going on. Right? So at 30 seconds, 60 seconds, in what globally speaking is on average a three
to four-hour procedure if you are doing the type of work I do which is a combinations of aesthetic pieces to make the whole picture come together.
So that`s how it all progressed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: So Tina Douglas, she didn`t hold back. She did this extensive 90-minute interview with Mike Galanos. All at the same time we are
learning she is facing a brand new lawsuit, a 28-year-old woman named Amanda who says she suffered permanent scarring and wounds from lipo and
says that those photos of her that she saw on the internet she had absolutely no consent for as well.
Are you surprised, Tina, that she`s coming out, and being so public about all of this?
TINA DOUGLAS, FREELANCE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, you know, she almost has to because these allegations keep coming forward. This lawsuit was
filed the end of May. And apparently Amanda started having some problems just a day or two after her surgery. And was reassured by Dr. Boutte`s
office that there was nothing really to be concerned about. But it appears as though, according to the lawsuit, that her symptoms, and her condition
just continually got worse.
BANFIELD: So there is a very highly viewed and shared video of the doctor performing a rap song "cut it" while she is actually cutting. It`s mid-
procedure. There`s nudity. I think you see pretty much everything. Of course, when we air it, we digitize everything so the patient`s privacy is
afforded.
I want to play that because there`s a specific reason I want to play that. But have a look at this particular video that she posted.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
[19:10:22] BANFIELD: So that`s actual surgery being performed during that dancing.
And Latoyah Rideau, that`s you on the operating table. Did you ever consent to being videotaped like that?
LATOYAH RIDEAU, PATIENT OF DR. BOUTTE: No, ma`am.
BANFIELD: How did you find out that that clip was on the internet?
RIDEAU: Well, I didn`t know it was on the internet. Dr. Boutte texted me and told me that it was -- well, I guess that is the internet, I`m sorry,
social media, she said the "cut it," go see the posts, the "cut it" is you, girlfriend.
BANFIELD: And what was your reaction when you heard that from her?
When I was like OK, I texted her back, and I went to go and look for it. I saw the video, but I didn`t see it -- it kind of buffered. But I heard the
song, and I kind of laughed because I was still under percocets (ph) and medicine so it didn`t really matter to me at the time. So when I did get
home back to New Orleans, and I`m going to say maybe like two months later I tried to look for the video to see it and it was nowhere to be found.
BANFIELD: How do you feel about this, Latoyah? How do you feel about the fact that your surgeon and your surgery are being featured publicly in this
manner?
RIDEAU: Horrible. Disrespected. Humiliated.
BANFIELD: Can I ask you how the surgery turned out?
RIDEAU: Horrible. I`m disfigured.
BANFIELD: There have been other patients who have found themselves online and seen these videos and claim that they never gave consent for this, and
that they are very unhappy with the results of their surgeries, many saying that they are disfigured and permanently injured. And some have sued. Is
that something you are going to do as well?
RIDEAU: Yes, ma`am.
BANFIELD: So there`s another piece of video, and it`s the same song, "cut it," but it`s very graphic. And we, again, have digitized all of it. It
is what appears to be one of the medical professionals in the OR dancing about with a large piece of flesh. I`m just going to play that and talk on
the other side.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
BANFIELD: That also apparently, Latoyah, is you as well. I find it sort of astounding. One of the questions that our reporter asked the doctor was
about a voice mail that you received, you say it`s Dr. Boutte who called you asking for support, once this became very public and was all over the
television. She called you and according to you this is the recording that you made of her voice. I want to play this for our audience. Have a
listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BOUTTE: The favor that I wanted from you, you ready?
RIDEAU: Yes.
BOUTTE: I wanted you to send me, like, a one-minute video, if you are game, and even if you don`t want your face shown, and that`s fine, but to
say, you know, hey, they coined me -- this is another thing that worked in my favor, they called me the dancing doctor. Millennials love that. My
social media followings have grown exponentially. People come to me from everywhere because they know the results.
So in your video, I wanted you to say something like, hey, I`m the girl in the video, the "cut it" video for the dancing doctor, Dr. Boutte, I`m going
to use that term against them, you know what I`m saying?
RIDEAU: Yes.
BOUTTE: You following me?
RIDEAU: I`m following you.
BOUTTE: Do you think you want to do it?
RIDEAU: I don`t know. Because I`m really messed up, Dr. Boutte.
GALANOS: What about the voice mail back and forth where you wanted her to do a testimonial, she says no, I`m messed up?
BOUTTE: And that`s where I got confused because let`s just say maybe about six or seven months after her first she said she was very happy. But let`s
just say wanted me to do more work and begged me to do more work.
[19:15:01] GALANOS: I saw an uneven cut, me, and I`m thinking, wow, that looks like a botched procedure to me. As a layman, you say --
BOUTTE: That was an astounding improvement on a prior alteration. And just to finish addressing this eight months later when she`s begging me to
do another procedure because she was so happy with what I did to improve the alteration, so that took me for a loop when she`s currently saying what
she is saying.
GALANOS: Yes. What do you make of that now? Because what you are saying, she was happy, wanted a return engagement, what I`m seeing, what others are
seeing, that seen in the reporting saying, she`s not happy at all.
BOUTTE: Well, can I use the word sometimes we want to be heard, we want to be seen, and sometimes it may not even be exactly the factual what we`re
saying, but we just want to be seen.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: So we just got a statement today from Dr. Boutte`s representation which says Dr. Windell Boutte is a board certified
dermatologist and skin surgeon expanding her expertise over 18 states and 10 countries. She is a known expert in this field with decades of
experience and countless number of clients. She is authorized to perform cosmetic surgery. She is dedicated and committed to giving her clients the
utmost professional masterful surgical expertise and experience.
But here is the thing. We also checked with the state records, and Dr. Boutte is only listed as board certified in dermatology.
Susan Witt, just quickly, how many people have you heard from that have the same story as Latoyah and plan to sue?
SUSAN WITT, ATTORNEY FOR PATIENTS OF DR. BOUTTE: Well, I have heard from over a hundred people. I mean, a number of clients have come forward and
said that they have not authorized, that their images be used in the way they have been used for Dr. Boutte for her profit which is greatly
concerning. We have had numerous people come forward with not just minor injuries, but significant injuries as recently as this week. I have met
with clients who were injured within the last couple of weeks by Dr. Boutte.
BANFIELD: It`s an amazing story, I mean, the amount of coverage that -- I appreciate all of you weighing in. Thank you so much.
Ashleigh Merchant, I`m going to get you to stay on.
You can see Mike Galanos` entire interview with Dr. Windell Boutte tomorrow at 1:00 p.m. eastern on the story on HLN. And we are back right after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:22:31] BANFIELD: You know, old houses have a lot of secrets. By nature, because they are old, right? But in Springfield, Massachusetts,
there is an old house that may have held a lot of secrets. These might be kind of new secrets. They are certainly secrets investigators have to
figure out in order to determine how three women ended up dead and rotting inside that house. Police found their bodies this week. But it was months
after two of them had been reported missing.
And police spent the past few days conducting something like underground imaging scans, all while they wait to find out how those three women died
from their autopsies. And it is something the neighbors might be eager to hear as well since for them living so close by this case hits close to
home.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEFAN DAVIS, NEIGHBOR: The first time that I smelled the stench was Wednesday evening when the garage door was open completely. That`s when
the stench came out and was from the garage and it smelled like road kill or something that died on the road and was wet and it -- and myself and
five other people was like oh my God, there`s a really bad smell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: While those bodies are being examined, police are talking to this man, the man who reportedly lived with those bodies. 40-year-old
Stewart Weldon whose dark past is coming to light after he was arrested on Sunday for kidnapping yet another woman, this one who survived. She is
accused of raping her and beating her and holding her captive in his house for the last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA JENKINS, AUNT OF STEWART WELDON: We just can`t believe it because he does have a kind heart. He really does. When he is, you know, Stewart.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well then while they are talking to Stewart, some in the community are asking about other dark secrets about his family, like the
female cousin who was found dead years ago, and whose case remains unsolved as of tonight.
I want to bring in Stephanie Barry, reporter for "the Republican and MassLive" also certified death investigator and professor of forensics at
Jacksonville State University Joseph Scott Morgan and defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant is still with me.
Stephanie Barry, that last little thing really stands out in this case tonight, a cousin, a female cousin who was killed, and whose death is a
mystery, and unsolved. What do we know about that?
[19:25:10] STEPHANIE BARRY, REPORTER FOR THE REPUBLICAN AND MASSLIVE (on the phone): So not a whole lot. She was killed in 2010. And I don`t
believe her cause of death was released until sometime after that. The cause of death was actually strangulation. She was not found at her own
home or any home related to any address related to Stewart Weldon. And thus far I`m not getting the sense that there`s any particular connection
between the current case and her death in 2010.
BANFIELD: I would find it so hard to fight that sense given the fact pattern that`s coming out in this current series of cases. And just so I`m
really clear, it all started with a taillight. OK? Police stop a guy with a taillight that`s out. And he outruns them and crashes. And they
discover a brutally injured woman in his car, not from the crash, from stab wounds and beatings, and likely a broken jaw. And this woman says I have
been his captive slave for over a month.
And when they go to the home they find three dead bodies, three women. And then they learn that his cousin, a young woman, strangled back in 2010, and
that case is still open. So you can imagine my spidey senses suggesting that needs a lot more looking into.
But Stephanie, the question I have is this. The aunt who was interviewed who said he`s really a nice person, you know, when he`s Stewart. Is there
anything we need to know about what the family can tell us? Or is his family just staying mum now about the kind of person Stewart is when he`s
nice and the kind of person Stewart might be when he`s not?
BARRY: Well, so the aunt spoke out a little bit to a couple of outlets and then I think my sense is the family started circling the wagons as the
attention to Stewart and his family intensified. I`m sure there`s a lot more information to be gleaned from his family members. And he was living
with his mother at the address in question at the time. And so far she has not appeared at the scene. She has not spoken to the media. And she has
not been staying at the house. So I`m quite sure there`s lots more information to be solicited from the family. But we are so early in the
investigation right now that there are more questions than answers.
BANFIELD: I will tell you what, there`s one thing I can tell you about being a street reporter for a long time, Stephanie. And I know you know
this. It`s really hard to come home when your house is surrounded in crime tape. And there are uniformed police with their arms folded over their
chests barring entry. I mean, that`s really hard. So I can fully understand why his mom is not coming home to that home tonight. And it`s
also pretty clear that the ground penetrating radar has been going on for several days.
Stephanie, we are hearing that there were giant piles of dirt that neighbors said were in front of the home today. Do we know anything more
about the excavation process or that ground penetrating radar and what it might have yielded?
BARRY: So, in terms of what it yielded, I have learned that the report is complete. They are not releasing the results. The piles of dirt could
have come from the garage, could have come from the backyard. It could be awaiting being hauled away as evidence. But currently the scene is all but
wrapped, and police are keeping the perimeter around the property. But I believe that investigative efforts in earnest have concluded at this point.
It`s interesting to note that police and a cadaver dog were out at Weldon`s former address in Westfield today. It`s my understanding they didn`t turn
anything up, but it`s still interesting to note that they are expanding their search.
BANFIELD: I`m going to ask you, Joseph Scott Morgan, all these pictures of guys walking out of the home with giant evidence bags. One of that at
least at one portion of the video looked to be pretty heavy. And while you are contemplating all the things that investigators would pick up in a home
other than the obvious, I want to play this from the district attorney because this was the DA responding to questions that reporters were asking
about taking a second look at that cousin given the material that they are finding at his home currently.
So here`s the DA on, you know, this new front, the dead cousin from 2010. And then I`m going to ask you on the other side about what you think they
might be grabbing and sticking in those bags. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then Lashawn Weldon, that cased on you website looks like it is still open. She was found dead in her apartment on Tyler
Street in 2010. Is that case still open?
[19:30:08] ANTHONY GULLUNI, HAMPDEN COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: As far as I know, we haven`t looked at that specifically, you now potential connections
we will make as time goes on. But again, it is very early in the investigation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HLN HOST: Joseph Scott Morgan, it`s very early in the investigation. When you`re combing through a house as a death
investigator, I know the obvious signs of things that they would look for. But I want you to tell me what the not so obvious, and then, obviously, the
additional stuff now that they know there`s a mysterious death in the family from 2010.
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Yes, you have to factor all that together, Ashleigh. And in this particular case, you know, we`ve
got bodies disbursed through this man`s property. I`m even hearing one report that a body could have been buried beneath a shed. The reporter had
mentioned those large piles of dirt in front of the home, I suspect that those are going to be taken off and probably sifted through very carefully.
And let`s apply that same logic to everything that`s contained within that structure. The idea is once they have a search warrant, subsequent to
information they`ve developed, in what could possibly be a -- deaths involving foul play, they`re going to catch -- they`re going to cast a wide
net to catch a lot of fish. That means everything from clothing articles to bedding, any kind of objects that could have been used as a weapon.
Because they want to get everything on this first sweep so that they can process it, particularly now in this day and age of DNA, and connectivity
going back between him and these various victims, which they will have DNA profiles on each one of these subjects involved in this case.
And might I add one more thing, in my dealings in cases like this, I don`t think that we`re at the beginning here, I think that we`re at the end. The
thought is, is that he didn`t just start killing people out of the blue. As the cynic that I am, I`m thinking that this started sometime in the
distant past. He`s probably not new to this. So, there will be other things that will turn up. It`s going to be interesting to hear what the
family has to say about this.
BANFIELD: Yes, we want to be real clear, he`s charged with kidnapping, assault to rape, kidnapping threat to commit a crime, resisting arrest.
But so far, he`s not charged with any murder. I do want to mention this, though, take a look at that basement picture from the Zillow listing, if we
can pop that basement picture up, you know, sometime ago before the story broke, there were all these pictures and this, you know, one of the real
estate website, this is the basement. And now, we`re hearing reports from a neighbor that -- rather not from a neighbor, I`m sorry, from Stewart`s
mom that she reported a foul odor coming from the basement, and we have this picture of the basement so you can imagine the kind of forensics
that`s going on down there.
I`m going to ask you guys to stay put if you can. I have this tonight, we`re learning more details about the suicide of Kate Spade, famous
designer Kate Spade. Her family finally speaking out. Her husband, Andy, here seen pictured with her, has released information the day after Kate`s
death. You`ll know her as that handbag designer, accessories designer. She apparently suffered from depression, Andy says, and anxiety for many
years. He said in a statement to CNN that she was actively seeking help, and that she was working closely with her doctors. Andy Spade adds that
the night before Kate died, she sounded happy. He said there was no indication, there was no warning that his wife, Kate would do this, would
take her own life.
I think a lot of people still really confused by that story, just a woman who really seemed to have it all, right? Money, fame, success, lovely
family, and then, suicide. National Suicide Prevention Hotline, please, if you`re feeling this way, please give them a call. They save lives.
When a Texas woman has an affair with her own nephew, that is certain to raise eyebrows. But when it turns out that that nephew gets a knife to the
back and dies, and all signs point to his aunt being on the handle of that knife, well, the question arises, what could have driven her to allegedly
kill him? You`re going to hear her own words next.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: A 37-year-old woman in Texas could spend the rest of her life behind bars because she stabbed her lover to death. That`s not unusual.
We hear those stories, right? But this lover, just so happened to be her 25-year-old nephew as well. That`s a story you don`t often hear. Police
said that these two apparently had been having an affair for three years and hiding their weird hook-up from the rest of the family. But according
to Aunt Andira, pictured here with the black eye on the left, that love affair got a little less love filled when that nephew/lover on the right
started abusing her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:40:12] ANDIRA ABDELAZIZ, DEFENDANT: I woke up close to him and I would cover my head and then he would tell me to put my hands down to my side.
And he would tell me that if I cover my face, then it`s going to be a closed fist.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: According to Aunt Andira, his nephew, named Mohammed wasn`t just violent in private either. She said that the jury -- she said to the jury
deciding her fate that he actually punched her out in public at a Dunkin` Donuts, punched right in the face, too. He also allegedly called her a
whore for sleeping with her husband, the guy who is his uncle. And he also apparently threatened to end her life if you believe her. She says
Mohammed was banging on the windows the very day that she ended up stabbing him. But she says she did that out of self-defense. The weird part is, is
a sheriff`s deputy had just been to the house before all of this, responding to a weird call about a burglary. But that deputy found that,
yes, the two of them were arguing, but Andira said everything was OK, and moments later, she had a knife in her hand and he had a knife in his back.
So, you make sense of that.
With me now is Jesse Weber, host of "Law & Crime Network," also forensic psychiatrist, Dr. Daniel Bober, the Defense Attorney Ashleigh Merchant is
still with me. I know you all are trying to sort this one through because it is not only strange, but then it`s also typical, right? I did it out of
self-defense. So, Jesse Weber, start with me, how convincing, you`ve been watching this case, how convincing is her story and her testimony from the
stand that she was this battered woman who had to do this or suffer the consequences?
JESSE WEBER, HOST, LAW & CRIME NETWORK: Ashleigh, you`ve said it best, we`ve seen these cases before of battered women. This one is a little
different because it`s incestual.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: I would say it`s a lot different.
WEBER: It`s fairly different, but I don`t think it`s beyond the realm of possibility when you look at her mug shot right there and she has a black
eye. The question is, when did she receive that black eye? Did she receive it the day of the stabbing, did she receive it --
BANFIELD: Was it?
WEBER: They are not sure. They are not sure. The police who did the -- first came to the scene, said that they believed this happened right when
they arrived, but not before the stabbing. There`s other -- the prosecution says those injuries she had, those weren`t from the day of,
those were days before. They`re not saying that she wasn`t abused. The question that really becomes for the jury was, was self-defense imminent?
Did she need to take decisive action at that very moment, or was this somebody who just had enough?
BANFIELD: Why -- so what -- did somebody call 911 reporting a burglary because, clearly, the neighbors said they were yelling and screaming, there
was a pitched row going on? So, what was the -- explain this visit by the cops, where they said, no, nothing to see here, we`re just going to mosey
on.
WEBER: This is the weird part of the story. So, police were called, I believe, by Andira herself. And they arrived, and she said, well, wait a
second, wait a second, I don`t want to press charges. I thought he was an intruder, everything is OK, everything is OK. And they left. They left.
And it was only a short amount of time after that --
BANFIELD: No spidey senses that this person looked terrified, that this guy looked aggro that she had a black eye, nothing like that?
WEBER: They felt that -- you know what, it seem to be a misunderstanding, they leave, and then the next time they show up, he`s stabbed in the back
and he`s dead in the front driveway. I mean, the story is bizarre, considering the fact that police first were there.
BANFIELD: Yes.
WEBER: First were there. It could have been prevented. Now, hindsight is 20/20, who knows what was actually going on at that very moment?
BANFIELD: OK. Dr. Bober, jump in, as a forensic psychiatrist, maybe you can help me sort through, you know, what the jury is going to have to think
through. Because there are hard pieces of evidence like text messages that Mohammed sent to her. "You`re going to be put in a coma." I mean, you
know, really, really cruel threats. And then there`s her testimony that she was threatened by him, that if he looked in the windows, and didn`t see
her sleeping on the couch, he`d assume she`s upstairs sleeping with her husband and that your life is over, your kids are over, you`re dead. This
is her testimony. I don`t know that we have a text to back that up, but right now, we have her word to back that up. And then, of course, there
are the -- you know, these injuries. And I mean, as a forensic psychiatrist, do you have to be super convincing that this woman was
abused? And does it matter when a jury sees a knife in someone`s back, not in their front?
DR. DANIEL BOBER, FORENSIC PSYCHIATRIST (via Skype): Well, you know, Ashleigh, this is like the standard battered woman defense. It really
comes down to what your other guest said which is the imminence, in other words, we know that he was controlling, that he got off on the power that
he abused her, and that the relationship was odd from the very beginning because it was incestuous, and he was a family member. But the question
was, was there actually an imminent threat and did she feel like she needed to act right at that moment?
[19:44:51] BANFIELD: So, I`ll tell you something, family members have weighed in, and clearly this story is all in the family, right? Weird.
Family members have weighed in. Some of them have said he`s a bad worker, he has a bad temper. Other family members said that`s not true, he wasn`t
-- he wasn`t that bad at all. But then one family member said I need protection after I testify. So, clearly, there`s -- that`s a mess, that`s
a real mess. But maybe what`s messier is the oxycodone and amphetamines that Andira says he was on, and the prescription for Adderall that he was
definitely on, that one expert says was way too high a dose. So, could that have made him dangerous? Well, all three of you think that through a
quick break, back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:50:23] BANFIELD: Still talking about that weird love affair between a Texas auntie and her nephew that ended with literally a stab in the back
because that aunt said her nephew/lover was abusing her, and that she killed him out of self defense. But now, it is up to the jurors to figure
it all out. What could have made this nephew so violent and whether it`s possible to kill someone out of self-defense if you stick them in the back
with a knife.
My panel is still with me. So, Ashleigh Merchant, how about that last little nugget, the fact that the knife was in the guy`s back. Does that
matter a lot?
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s going to be the most important factor, I think. I think the jury is not going to like either of
these people. They`re not going to like her because they`re going to think that she was cheating on her spouse. They`re not going to like him because
there`s a lot of testimony that he`s a violent person. Now, I think they will have a level of sympathy for her because this was an arranged
marriage. This was her husband`s nephew, not hers, her blood nephew. So, I think they`re going to have some level of sympathy and there`s a lot of
testimony that he`s a very violent, controlling person. But what it`s going to come down to is in that split second when she put that knife in
his back, was she feeling as though that was her only choice to save her own life.
BANFIELD: I mean, violent, yes. There`s reports that she says he punched holes in their wall, that he broke light fixtures, and then all of those
nasty, you know, threatening texts as well. Dr. Bober, there is this little piece of information about Mohammed`s prescription of Adderall 60
milligrams a day and another forensic psychiatrist is in that courtroom, one of your colleagues in the business saying that that was almost too
high. That`s significant, but why?
BOBER: It`s too high, Ashleigh. I mean, definitely on the upper end of dosage range. It`s probably actually over what you would prescribe
someone, for example, for ADHD. These are generally safe medications, they`ve been used for over half a century, and then the prescribed dosages
are fine. But once you start getting into the high end of the dosage range, it increase the chances of things like psychosis, paranoia, auditory
hallucinations, delusions, and even in normal therapeutic doses, it can increase irritability and aggression. So, there is something to be said
for what this other forensic psychiatrist stated in court.
BANFIELD: OK. Last little piece of information, I`m just going to land this on all of your, you know, palates here. And it`s weird, Jesse, two of
Mohammed`s brothers, the victim, right, there on the right -- two of his brothers were arrested for allegedly beating up an uncle who defended
Andira. What is with this family?
WEBER: That`s a great question. We keep hearing about violence in this family. So, these two brothers of the victim here are allegedly beat up
their uncle, and not just beat him up. He suffered allegedly blood brain in his -- blood in his brain and also --
BANFIELD: Bleeding in the brain, oh, my God.
WEBER: Bleeding in the brain, and facial break -- the breaking of facial bones. These are serious injuries. And you keep hearing stories from
witnesses that this family had history of violence. And not only that, I have to say it, one of the reasons that Andira didn`t come forward, she
says, if she came forward and then talked about this affair, she might be a victim of an honor killing. So, that is something that the jurors have to
take into effect what this family was --
BANFIELD: Well, you know what, I don`t think that`s so crazy, an honor killing, because we know about that, and also the fact that these brothers,
two of the brothers were arrested for beating up an uncle that badly. Yes, I think an honor killing sounds just about, you know, plausible in this
particular case. What a horrible story. Jesse, thank you for bringing us such a horrible story, appreciate it.
WEBER: Sorry, Ashleigh, I wish I had something (INAUDIBLE).
BANFIELD: Well, we`ll have you back another time. Daniel Bober, thank you. And Ashleigh Merchant, I`m going to ask you to stay put. There is
this news to tell you tonight, Santa Clara County Superior Court Judge Aaron Persky is now a former superior court judge. The voters there booted
him from the bench after outraged over his six-month prison sentence for the so-called "Stanford Rapist", Brock Turner. Remember that, how it
ignited a recall petition? Well, Persky becomes the first judge in California to be recalled since 1932.
Most police chases involve flashy cars and wild driving, it don`t involve an armored personnel carrier, though, like this, lumbering down the
highway, police in tow, and not just one of them, a whole lot of cruisers in tow. Look at that. "ONE MORE THING" straight ahead.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, and it`s one of our guilty pleasures, a police chase for a stolen armored personnel carrier. A police
say first lieutenant with the Virginia National Guard took off from Fort Pickett where his unit was conducting routine training. And the chase
lasted about two hours, involved about a dozen cop cars, two police helicopters. 29-year-old Joshua Yabut taken into custody in Richmond and
is now charged with DUI and a host of other charges, as well.
We will see you right back here tomorrow night, 6:00 Eastern Time. Thanks for watching. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.
END
