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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Victim Or Killer, Was woman In Car Suspect An Accomplice Or Victim Herself; Jolie-Pitt Custody Battle; New Bizarre Detail, Mom Vanishes, Cops Now Eyeing Coworker; Nightmare Abduction; Shocking Surprise; Sydney Loofe Was Missing After Her Second Date; Kimberly Kessler Is Charged With Driving Her Car, Grand Theft Auto; FBI Agent Charged After Bystander Shot; Elizabeth Smart`s Captor To Walk Free Soon?; Suit: Dallas Cheerleader Made 4x Less Than Mascot. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired June 13, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:10] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is "Crime and Justice." Tonight an
astonishing jailhouse interview. The woman accused of helping to kill a cop. Now has choice words about her partner, calling him violent and
controlling and abusive. Dave Siegel is on the story. It seems like those are crocodile tears or are they actually real or she is willing to spare
who got caught?
DAVE SIEGEL, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, at the very least she is trying to come across remorseful. But she still ran from the scene and then hid
before she was found. Now she is painting a very dark picture of her alleged boyfriend.
BANFIELD: All right. Thanks very much, Dave.
Also, a woman accused of using 18 different aliases, arrested in connection with a missing co-worker, a hairdresser who went missing on Mother`s Day.
Now, this woman is suddenly on a hunger strike in a local jail. Justin Freiman is tracking this story. What`s the problem?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: That is right. Shortly after the police came out and said, hey, 18 names, living in around 33 cities around
the country, different names on driver`s licenses, apparently she didn`t like that news coming out so much and stopped eating.
BANFIELD: Bizarre. All right. We`ll dig into that and find out what the other issues are.
Also, another frightening inmate now, the kidnapper who held Elizabeth Smart captive for nine months. Elizabeth is fuming that this woman could
be let out early. Bernice Man is working this story. Bernice, she helped her husband in these repeated rapes day after day for months. The whole
time in fact that teenager was gone. How could she possibly get out?
BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: Well, Wanda Barzee has a chance for parole, even though she refused to attend the parole hearing. She
refused a psych exam. But the parole board can weigh their options. And Elizabeth Smart has something to say about it.
BANFIELD: Well, I would too. I can`t wait to hear it. Thank you for that Bernice.
Later, the cheerleader who sued the Dallas Cowboys saying she was making much less than the mascot. And you will not believe how much less she was
making. Also, Angelina Jolie could be losing custody, or at least losing a custody battle. A Judge is threatening to take her kids away from her
unless she starts telling nice things about Brad to the kids. What do you suppose is going on here?
Also, an FBI agent finds out just how much these awesome dance moves could actually cost him? After his loaded gun went flying out of his pants onto
the dance floor, and then actually went off, striking an onlooker in the leg.
And later, the Tinder date that turned deadly. How surveillance from a hardware store could connect a duo to a lonely young woman`s disappearance.
And why the older male suspect seems to be changing his story and not just once either.
First, though, to the Tennessee jailhouse where a woman accused of helping her alleged boyfriend kill a police officer is telling a dark story from
behind bars about what happened, at least her version of what happened. Because 38-year-old Erika Castro-Miles might have you thinking she is the
victim after she cries over the death of the police officer.
Sergeant Daniel Scott Baker, now a hero in his community, was reportedly the kind of guy who volunteered to work the early shift, which is exactly
what he was doing the morning he was brutally killed. He was responding to a call about a suspicious vehicle on a rural road. Where Castro-Miles says
she was sitting in the passenger seat right beside Steven Wiggins who was behind the wheel.
But when Sargent Baker asked Wiggins to get out of the car, that man allegedly responded by shooting him several times. His colleagues used GPS
to track down his patrol car, which by the way had been dumped in the woods two miles away. And inside that patrol car they found the charred and
lifeless remains of Sergeant Baker. By that point the two felons were on the run. Wiggins leading police on a multiday manhunt before he was
arrested at a Walmart, and then Castro-Miles herself discovered hiding under a nearby house.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIKA CASTRO-MILES, SUSPECT: I was hiding and I was scared. But when I came out I just -- I didn`t care anymore. As long as I was safe, I gave
them anything and everything they wanted, his phone, everything. Like I said, I didn`t know he was going to do anything like this. I didn`t know
he was going to do this. I didn`t know he had a gun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, now that mom of three is charged with murdering a police officer. And it doesn`t get more serious than that. But Castro-Miles is
insisting that she is sorry. At the same time she is painting a distractingly dark picture of her co-defendant Steven. The question
tonight is whether anyone actually believes her.
I want to bring in my panel Brian Joyce, he is the host of the Brian Joyce show on 102.3 FM. Also, CNN contributor Cedric Alexander, he is the former
safety director for Duvall County Georgia. And defense attorney, Eric Johnson is with me as well.
All right, you three, thank you all for being here. Brian, I`m going to begin with you, if I can. I looked at that interview over and over again.
I played the sound. I watched her. And I tried desperately to see an actual tear falling. And Brian, I don`t know if it`s just me or my
eyesight, or my cynical nature, but I didn`t see any tears amid all that blubbering.
BRIAN JOYCE, HOST, LIVE AND LOCAL IN CHALK RADIO 102.3 FM: Well, Ashleigh, it`s great to be here and I`m sorry it`s under such sad circumstances. But
I watched the video just like you several times. There`s obviously two ways of looking at this. She could just be faking it. I think it is worth
noting, Ashleigh, if you look through the details of the story, Steven Wiggins was charged just the day before with beating her and assaulting
her. So the Police were aware of this violent relationship that they did have.
She had claimed that he also stole her car, but the next morning she is in the car with him right before this shooting happens. So, to me, the way
she is pouring her heart out to these news cameras, to me, she seems to me like she is being genuine about it. I`m not a legal expert. I`m not a
psychologist. I feel like I`m a pretty good judge of character. I feel like most people who are guilty are hiding something.
BANFIELD: You`re a great judge of character. You actually do a show in which you`ve got thousands and thousands of people who listen to you, the
same kinds of people who get picked for jury duty. They are the people who are supposed to be the arbiters of whether this is bunch of baloney, or
whether this a battered woman. And if I can just ask you this, what woman who is battered who has a chance to run and get help instead decides to
hide?
JOYCE: Well, Ashleigh, I can`t believe you`re actually asking me that question. I mean, we know that women who are in battered relationships
they`re afraid, they are scared, they don`t know what to do. Bear in mind, this all played out in a matter of seconds. She claims he told her get out
of here and run for your life. She says she did that. She could be lying, I`ll admit that. But she strikes me as somebody who`s -- I don`t know if
she is telling the truth. She strikes me as somebody who`s being more honest than dishonest.
BANFIELD: I don`t know. You and I are seeing this completely differently, because the witness who found her hiding under one of the buildings nearby
said that she said I`m lost and I`m just looking for the closest highway. As opposed to I am scared out of my wits right now, because the guy I was
just with shot a police officer and he is been beating me up for days. Let me jump over to Cedric Alexander -- go ahead, Brian.
JOYCE: She definitely -- you know, she is obviously -- she is scared to, she knows she is involved in something bad. I`m simply saying, you know,
there`s a good chance she will be and probably should be charged with something here. I`m just not certain that she should be charged with
first-degree murder which is what she is charged with, and she should face the death penalty. I think, if anything, she is just an abused, possibly
another victim of this violent, dangerous man.
BANFIELD: Possibly, possibly, but you know what, it`s also and it`s sad to say it is also a convenient excuse for many people when they find
themselves facing the death penalty, because that is exactly what she is facing.
JOYCE: That is true.
BANFIELD: So Cedric Alexander, with all of your years in law enforcement how often do you find that a battered woman who has ample opportunity to
get away and to get help instead looks at a non-police entity, a witness and says, you know what, I`m lost? I`m hiding under this building, because
I`m lost and I need to find the nearest highway. As opposed to help me, help me, I`m terrified, and I`m in trouble.
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST, CNN: Well, Ashleigh, you know, let`s be honest here, and I certainly do agree with your guest that just
spoke, if we consider that whole battering syndrome that a lot of women in this country experience, I would probably tend to lean to the fact she
probably was very frightened. She had been psychologically, emotionally disturbed, she is probably been living with this for a long part of her
life, even before she met her husband which is probably what got her in to this.
So, this very horrible crime takes place in which she is seen as a partner to the individual that killed this deputy sheriff in such a horrible,
horrible manner, not only shot and killed him a number of times, but also burned his body in the backseat of his patrol car. That is unspeakable.
And even to the point where the U.S. Justice Department along with the U.S. Attorneys there are now looking to this case and may file charges.
[18:10:03] What her particular role she may have played oftentimes, I`m not an attorney, but oftentimes in many states if you`re an accessory to or
nearby or seem to be in cohorts with such a deadly crime, you yourself can be charged.
BANFIELD: Yes, it doesn`t matter if you pulled the trigger or not, it doesn`t matter.
ALEXANDER: And absolutely, it doesn`t matter whether you pull the trigger or not.
BANFIELD: Right and I think, Cedric, at this point it would be really good for our audience to hear as much as they can, straight from the horse`s
mouth, from Erika Castro-Miles. Now, there is a couple of things I need to let you know. The reporter got the interview based on the idea that it
would be audio only. So much of what you`re going to hear is just her audio. But then eventually she`ll go on camera and you can start to see
her face. With that in mind, here is Erika with her explanation of what happened moment to moment during the killing of Sergeant Baker. And it is
audio only for start. Take a look.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CASTRO-MILES: He started to go back over to the other side and ask Steven to get out of the vehicle. Steven kept telling him the door wouldn`t open.
That was a lie. All the sudden all I saw was Steven`s arm came across, and his elbow hit my throat and he said to me if you say anything or scream, it
will be you next. And so I kept my mouth shut. And he threatened my kids as well. So I just kept my mouth shut. All I heard was the gunshots, and
I remember him getting out of the car and hearing more gunshots and him running back to the car. And getting his backpack and telling me to get my
car out of there. My car had a flat tire and it wasn`t going anywhere. He was like your life depends on you running. So I ran.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BANFIELD: All right, that is her explanation of how it all played out. Here she is, excruciatingly sorry for everything that happened, and here
she is on camera too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASTRO-MILES: I`m so sorry that this has happened, that you had to lose your husband and son and brother, and that your baby girl is not going to
have her dad. Dads are the most important thing in a girl`s life.
Steven is a very controlling, paranoid schizophrenic, very violent when he is on drugs. That whole entire day before was nonstop screaming, yelling
and trying to get out. Every time I would try to get out of the car, he would speed up. He`d punch me in the chest, slap me upside the head.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: All right. So you can see her winding it up pretty -- I just want to ask our control room if we have the moment where she is apologizing
to Steven`s wife. Because that is another sound bite, I think it is really important. The first is I would undo it 10,000 times, I`d undo it all, but
then she apologizes directly to Steven`s wife, to Steven`s wife, Lisa Baker. Do we have that one? Do we have that available?
I don`t have it, I`m sorry. So what`s critical here is that she is foisting the blame onto her co-defendant at this point. And I don`t know
Eric Johnson if that is a great strategy, or if that makes jurors angry. But what do you see it as?
ERIC JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think it is the only possible way that she can survive the death penalty in this case is to show that she was
under some form of duress under this situation, and to also show that she did not actually participate in it. Here in Georgia there`s a doctrine
called mere presence. And just because a crime is committed, if you do not do anything to help the perpetrator of that crime or to aid and abet them
in any way, your mere presence does not make you guilty.
So given the fact that she is saying that she was also being attacked at the time, that she was threatened, her children were threatened, and that
she did not pull the trigger, drive the car away nor set the body on fire, all of those things will indicate that it is possible that a defense based
on the fact she was merely present is something that could sustain and be carried by the jury.
BANFIELD: Well, I`ll tell you something, if the law enforcement has anything to do with this, and obviously it`s one of their own, right, so
this is very different. Law enforcement has to deal with this on a regular basis, crime fighting. But then when the victim is one of your own and you
see this widow left behind with a 2-year-old who`s got to now deal with the fact that her husband was shot on the job and that his body was charred in
an attempt to clean it up, reportedly the suspect in this case saying that he had seen CSI and knew about forensics, and trying to clean up the
forensics, and tried to set the fire in the backseat of his cruiser to clean up, you know, the issues with the body, which he stuffed into the
back of the cruiser, here is the Sheriff, Jeff Bledsoe, and how he feels about, I guess you could say, a justice system that sometimes has wheels
that turn very slowly. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF JEFF BLEDSOE, DICKSON, TN: I`m sick and tired of victims waiting 10, 30, 40 years for justice. Our victims have as many rights as a
defendant has. And I want you to think about how old his daughter will be if this thing goes 30 years. She`ll be almost 32 years old. And why
should that baby have to wait 32 years for justice?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And with that, they have to listen to this jailhouse interview where Erika Castro-Miles tells this reporter, and this is on camera, boy if
I could do this all over again, 10,000 times, if I could do it all over again, it would be different. Which is, you know, small consolation to a
police department and a grieving wife. But here`s how she puts it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASTRO-MILES: I would undo it 10,000 times over. I would undo it every single day of my life if I had to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, we`ll see how long the wheels of justice turn on this one. My thanks, so much, Brian Joyce, I appreciate your reporting, Cedric
Alexander, thank you, and Eric Johnson, I`m going to ask you to stick around if you will.
Tonight the desperate search continues for a missing hairdresser names Joleen Cummings. While the prime suspect on her disappearance goes on a
hunger strike behind bars. I am going to tell you why she is doing that and also some other strange stuff about is woman.
Plus, a Judge is coming down hard on Angelina Jolie and forcing her to place nice to Brad in that bitter custody fight she is waging with him.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Tonight in Duvall County, Florida, there`s a woman sitting in jail who is facing charges of grand theft auto. You might think that is
not such a big deal. This woman was allegedly caught on camera driving this car, a car that belonged to her co-worker. She is booked under the
name Jennifer Siburg, but that is not her real name. Her real name is Kimberly Kessler. And it turns out Kim has been using fake names for
years, like Christina Melissa Brook, Christina Young, Pamela Cliburn, Maya Stone and at least 12 other aliases. Investigators are digging deep into
this woman`s past.
Because they`re trying to figure out what she was doing in 33 different cities over the course of the last two decades. Because this woman may
only be charged with grand theft auto for driving that co-worker`s car. But whatever name she is using she is the only named suspect in the case of
that co-worker going missing. The hair stylist mother of three whose car, Ms. Kessler allegedly abandoned within hours of the disappearance of Joleen
Cummings, a woman whose family and friends are starting to accept that a month into this whole ordeal, they may never actually see Joleen alive
again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF BILL LEEPER, NASSAU COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: We have obtained evidence which we are not releasing at this time which leads us to believe
Joleen is not alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Here`s what troublesome, the investigators have not yet revealed what that evidence is. But we do know they`re looking into Kessler. And
we also know something strange that is happened in the jail where Kessler was being held. She just decided to go ahead and stop eating, right after
the police starting peeping into her past and all those aliases.
And Kimberly Kessler has pulled off a nearly two-week long hunger strike, all at the same time as Kimberly Kessler or whatever name she was using had
an ex-boyfriend who is now talking and attesting to what kind of person this woman is.
Joining me now, Dan Scanlan, crime reporter for the Florida Times, also still with me CNN contributor, Cedric Alexander and defense attorney, Eric
Johnson. OK, Dan, what kind of woman is Kimberly Kessler, aka something else 18 times, particularly, what is this boyfriend saying about her or
this ex-boyfriend?
DAN SCANLAN, CRIME REPORTER, FLORIDA TIMES: The ex-boyfriend was interviewed by Action News Jacksonville and he goes back to 2004 and he
basically said, quote, sometimes she`d get so mad she`d fall down in a fetal position and start rocking back and forth. He knew her as Jennifer
Siburg, that is the name that she was working at the hair salon in Florida when Joleen Cummings had disappeared. They were co-workers. Siburg,
Kessler had been there about a month.
BANFIELD: As a hairdresser, right? They`d both been hairdressers, and that salon and I guess that is what, you know, Kimberly Kessler was doing
now even though apparently she is had all sorts of professions, truck driver, work in restaurant, apparently work at a temp agency and that is
just sort a tip of the iceberg.
SCANLAN: And many of those were actually within a few counties of here, St. Johns County to the south of us as well as the list goes on and on
according to what the sheriff said at both news conferences, 32 cities, 14 states, at least 17 different aliases, all since she was sort of
unofficially listed as missing in Pennsylvania back in the early 2000s.
BANFIELD: So, Dan, the weird thing is all these different names. Let`s just throw the names up if we can. And, I mean, it might have to be an
actual scroll. Yup, we`re going to have to scroll it because there`s too many to fit on one page. Here are all the names she is been using over the
last I think, couple of decades, or at least 16 years or so. Some of them are kind of similar, like Pamela Jean Kleiber, Jean Seaver Allen, Jennifer
Seibring, but some of them are really different like Melissa Losey, just odd, or Mia Stone.
All the while she is been moving around a lot, too, Dan. Let us just pop up that map that shows the 33 different cities. See the red marks, she is
been living in 33 cities, in 14 states, all just since 1996. While we sort of drink in that oddness, her ex-boyfriend said that she apparently
couldn`t keep a job. At one point she`d had 11 jobs in a year. It`s almost one a month. What are they saying about the hunger strike? I find
this very odd. Do we know why, specifically, she decided to stop eating?
SCANLAN: The sheriff of Nassau County e-mailed me this afternoon to tell me that he had shown her a copy of the story that I wrote when it was
announced that she had all these aliases and apparently that is when she stopped eating, and apparently claiming that she would not eat again unless
she was transferred to another facility. So they move her on the 11th, right here in Duvall County jail. Apparently she has begun eating again,
but the sheriff`s own comment to me in an e-mail this afternoon was we won`t bring her back yet.
BANFIELD: I still don`t really understand, you know, why you quit eating just because someone did a report on you and you`re being investigated.
Stop investigating me? Or I`m going to starve myself to death? It doesn`t make sense.
SCANLAN: And nothing seems to make sense. When we hear from the sheriff that literally when the people of Nassau County find out about this they`re
going to be absolutely amazed at how quote/unquote very unusual this case is. I can only cringe when I think about what we might find out eventually
when it all gets released.
BANFIELD: Well, let me bring in Cedric Alexander on that. You know, Cedric, one of the things the police officers actually said was that we`re
all going to be shocked apparently, the community will be shocked when we provide all the details behind this crime. Why say that? I mean, why sort
of release that? Because it sort of says to me, you know, maybe we should know more at this point before we pass judgment on a hunger strike.
A hunger strike is serious. It`s usually -- I am not saying her case, usually meant to point out something`s going wrong in here and I want to
highlight to the public that something`s going wrong in this jail.
ALEXANDER: Well, I don`t know the reason for the police making the statement in which they did, kind of telegraphing there may be more. And
there may be more. I think we`re going to see that over time. But in terms of the hunger strike itself, I`m quite sure they`re going to do a
psychological evaluation of this suspect.
BANFIELD: Because, you know what, I get the sense when I hear hunger strike they`re trying to squeeze me in here. You know if she is
responsible, and she is not charged with, you know, the disappearance of Joleen Cummings, she is not. She is charged with driving her car, grand
theft auto, but in they`re trying to squeeze information out of her through the treatment in the jail, that would make sense for a hunger strike. Does
that make sense to you?
ALEXANDER: No. Not necessarily. You know, here again, we don`t know who she is. And there may be some psychological stuff there going on. But to
infer that, you know, the police may be somehow putting pressure on her, I think the evidence subsequently is going to speak for itself. If we look
at what we know right now Ashleigh I think anybody reasonable could say that there is -- you know, there`s a little smoke here, let`s go
investigate if there`s a fire. That is what`s taking place.
Now in terms of the hunger strike itself, for her it could be a strategy to deflect. It could be a way of slowing down the criminal justice process.
In which she is getting ready to confront. Who knows? We don`t know. We don`t know her psychological state. But I just think that as this
continues -- as this investigation continues to unfold, and I suspect, don`t know, but suspect, as they gather further evidence, that might be
suggestive of some serial deaths being involved in this, it`s going to be interesting to see going forward.
BANFIELD: Right. You know what, Eric Johnson, it seems, you know, at first blush when you hear all these different aliases were used, boy, that
is going to complicate things. But there are a lot of law enforcement officers who are saying thank god, because that provides a trove of
information for this investigation, do you agree?
JOHNSON: Well, yes, I mean it provides a lot of information into the background of the particular, but the defendant however may not give much
information to solve this particular crime and her hunger strike that she undergo may be a result of some crimes that she may have committed under
those other aliases.
[18:30:00]
And she`s possibly trying to lay the foundation for some type of insanity or some type of mental instability to factor in to some of those
investigations that the authorities don`t know about at this time.
BANFIELD: All right. My thanks to all of you, Dan Scanlan, Cedric Alexander, Eric Johnson.
Got this story out of California. Tonight, Angelina Jolie has been told to give Brad Pitt more access to all those kids that they share. It is not
unusual to hear something like that in a custody dispute.
But what is unusual is that Angelina Jolie is being told she has to inform her children that a relationship with their father is not harmful and that
they are safe with Brad Pitt.
According to a new court order, that`s what she`s actually going to have to tell the kids about Brad. Makes you wonder why. Brad Pitt was also granted
unrestricted phone access to those children. The order also outlined a shared custody schedule for the summer with Jolie keeping primary physical
custody.
The Hollywood superstars separated in 2016 and filed for divorce shortly after that. They have three sons and three daughters, ages 16 on down. And
the judge had another warning. You could lose custody, Angelina, if you do not abide by these orders. Very surprising. Everybody thought how do you
parent six kids. It`s so difficult. Well, apparently it is difficult.
Tonight, that dancing FBI agent who accidentally shot a bystander when his gun fell out of the holster or out of his pants or whatever the heck his
gun was doing while he was doing flips and dancing in Denver, he is out of jail and he is now facing second-degree assault charges.
Twenty-nine-year-old Steven (ph) Bishop was in Denver for FBI training when this little thing on video happened. He was much less animated in the court
appearance than he was on the dance floor, dressed in a conservative navy suit, white shirt, blue tie. Agent Bishop is due back in court next month.
He could face more charges depending on the results of his blood alcohol testing. So stay tuned.
Kidnapping and rape survivor Elizabeth Smart speaking out, none too happy about the prospect that one of her captors could be set free. How on earth
could that happen?
Also, a new lawsuit against America`s team claims a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader made a mere fraction of what the team`s mascot named Rowdy
made. So if you had to venture a guess, two times less money, 10 times less money? Wait till you find out.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: You know the name Elizabeth Smart. And if you remember her story, you might remember two other names as well. Brian David Mitchell and
Wanda Barzee, the couple that held the 14-year-old girl captive for nine months.
After Mitchell kidnapped her at knife point from her bed inside her family home in Salt Lake City, he raped Elizabeth multiple times, almost daily,
claiming that this was the Christian thing to do.
And sometimes it was Wanda helping him to execute the plan. And Wanda keeping Elizabeth from running, grabbing Elizabeth hard by the knee when a
police officer approached them in a public library and questioned them, warning her, stay quiet.
It took nearly 10 years to bring the couple to justice after Elizabeth was finally rescued because both Mitchell and Barzee claimed incompetent, that
they weren`t capable of standing trial. But Mitchell was finally given two life sentences. And Barzee, for her part, 15 years behind bars.
And if you can believe it, this woman is already up for parole. And if you can believe it, the parole board is already talking about whether or not
they might just let her go. Even as concerns are raised about whether Barzee is a changed woman, or taking responsibility for what she`s done.
I want to bring in CNN correspondent Jean Casarez. She`s interviewed Elizabeth Smart and attended Brian David Mitchell`s trial. Also, Elizabeth
Smart`s former attorney, Greg Skordas, is with me. He is also a former Salt Lake County deputy district attorney.
[18:40:00] And Eric Johnson remains with me as well. Jean Casarez, let me begin with you. Why does it feel as though this just happened? Why does it
feel as though those two were just sent away, as opposed to almost up for parole?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, CNN AND HLN (via telephone): Right. Well, in regard to Wanda Barzee, she is the one that`s eligible for parole in 2024,
which is not too far away. And she was sentenced to a federal term of 15 years and to a state term of 15 years.
But the prosecutors, believe it or not, recommended they be served concurrently, which, of course, we all know means together. And so that is
why that the time is running short now at this point. And Elizabeth Smart is speaking out that she doesn`t want her released.
BANFIELD: Yeah. It`s hard to believe when you see these pictures. We all covered the story when Elizabeth was captured. She was 14. For much of her
captivity, she was 15. But now she`s 30. That tells you how long this ordeal has gone on. I want to read, if I can, from Elizabeth`s Instagram
post. She just posted this yesterday regarding a parole hearing for Wanda Barzee.
In part she says, what I find troubling is that regardless of her threat level, she will be released in 2024, six years from now. It is possible
that she could be paroled before then. Hopefully not. I do not think I`m a vindictive or vengeful person. If change were truly possible in her case,
then perhaps parole release could be justified.
But I have recently learned that she is still carrying around a manuscript called "The Book of Immanuel David Isaiah" and is reading from it. In this
manuscript were the revelations that Brian David Mitchell received from God to kidnap myself and six other young girls to all become his wives.
It goes on from there as well. I want to play this moment, Jean, if I can, where you interviewed Elizabeth Smart on this program to talk a little bit
about Wanda`s role in that nine months of captivity, what Wanda did, what she was like, and what Elizabeth thinks of her. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH SMART, KIDNAP AND RAPE VICTIM: I think it is easy to overlook her because Brian Mitchell, he`s the one that forced his way into my home,
he`s the one that held me at knife point, he`s the one that raped me, he did all these terrible things.
But she was a mother. She had came from a prior marriage. She had six children. And honestly, part of me feels like she`s more evil because of
that, because she was -- I don`t want to say mother, but she did have six children.
And how can you have that many children and allow that to happen to another child? And let rape and torture and abuse continue. And not only continue,
but she -- she encouraged it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Greg Skordas, it`s hard to imagine what Elizabeth went through. I don`t think any of us ever could. You have spent so much time with her as
her former attorney. How much of the process was she involved in? Meaning, when a plea bargain is struck, victims are often part of it. How much did
Elizabeth play a part in the 15 years that Barzee got?
GREG SKORDAS, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR ELIZABETH SMART: Both the federal prosecutors and the state prosecutors conferred
with her quite a bit throughout the entire process, and she very involved. And even though, as Jean indicated earlier, these sentences were run
concurrently, she -- Wanda Barzee served her entire 15-year federal sentence.
And with good time, you do 85 percent, so essentially 13 years, and now is serving the state sentence. So it`s not as though she`s going to simply do
15 years. By the time she gets out in 2024, if that`s the case, she will have served closer to 22 or 23 years.
But the family was very involved in the plea bargaining process and the sentencing process and in the ultimate time that Wanda Barzee will
ultimately serve.
BANFIELD: I mean, this has got to be sort of victimization all over again as this young woman who has done such an incredible job getting her life
back on track, owning it and being a victim`s rights advocate, she`s written books, she`s been out on -- she is such an amazing citizen and then
to have to sort of go through this.
When we come back after the break, I want to ask you if there`s any possibility, Greg, that Wanda Barzee could be held longer, if there`s
anything that the system could see in this woman and say she`s not ready.
And then I also want to play a moment from Elizabeth Smart where when she was dressed like this and veiled by her captors and a policeman approached,
what was it that held her back from saying help me, help me, rescue me, these people have captured me, because that didn`t happen. That`s next.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still talking about one of the most famous kidnappers in American history, the woman who held 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart captive
for nine months. She was sentenced to 15 years behind bars. But now, Wanda Barzee is up for parole.
[18:50:01] Is she going to get out? My panel is still with me. I want to play this moment so that everyone can really understand what it`s like for
a 14-year-old who is afraid for her life. And Greg Skordas, as a former attorney for Elizabeth Smart, I know you know her well, but I don`t think
anybody can know what it`s like to be 14 years old and have been in captivity for two months.
Because this is what happened, two months into her captivity. She`s in a public library, she`s veiled, she`s with these monsters, and a police
officer shows up, and she doesn`t cry out for help. Here`s what she said to Jean Casarez as to why she didn`t.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMART: I was hopeful. I was hopeful that he would rescue me. I was hopeful that would see through everything. But as soon as he approached us, as soon
as he flashed his badge, I remember Wanda Barzee, her hand just clamping down on my leg and just holding onto me.
And it was just like -- it was just like -- it was like being kidnapped all over again. It was just like reliving everything that had happened to me,
all over again. It was like she was saying, if you want to live, if you want your family to live, you`ll sit here and you won`t say anything and
you won`t do anything. And it was terrifying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Greg Skordas, I just find that heartbreaking to hear that, because she endured seven more months of captivity and rape. When it comes
to Wanda Barzee, she told her jailer she didn`t want to go to her parole hearing and refused to go.
She also refused to meet with the prison psychologist. That tells me she is not going to get out early. But is there any way possible that anything
could happen where she doesn`t even get out on time when she is supposed to in 2024?
SKORDAS: So not with respect to the prison system. She served her 15-year federal commitment. She is serving her 15-year state commitment. That ends
in 2024 as you`ve discussed. And she will never be in a prison again for this conduct.
The only way she could be housed after that time is if the Utah state prison authorities decide, Ashleigh, that she is a danger to herself or
others to the point where she needs to be housed in a state mental hospital.
And that`s a secure facility. It`s a place where she cannot get out. And it`s a place that she could be ordered to go. And it`s actually a place
where she served her first 9-1/2 years of this commitment while they were trying to decide if she was even competent to go to trial and if she was
even able to help the attorneys who are representing her at the trial.
BANFIELD: Yeah. Well, let`s hope. Honestly, let`s hope, given what Elizabeth said, how she`s still carrying around this manifesto. Let`s hope
that there is some other option other than her walking amongst us again.
Greg Skordas, thank you so much. My thanks to Jean Casarez as well. I am going to ask Eric Johnson to stay on with us.
In HLN`s original series "Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo," Chris takes viewers inside the country`s most dangerous minds. And this Sunday, he
delves into the psyche of one of America`s most notorious serial killers, Joel Rifkin. And he asked the tough questions about Joel`s sordid sex life
and why he brutally murdered 17 different women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN JOURNALIST: We`re doing this because of the pursuit of why, right? What makes you different than me? And I know this is something
that you are trying to figure out still to this day. Is that true?
JOEL RIFKIN, NOTORIOUS SERIAL KILLER: Yes.
CUOMO: But your life has been dominated by a very fundamental decision, which was, I`m not just going to go and get what I need from these people
sexually, I`m going to kill them. Why?
RIFKIN: It was a lot of self-lying. It was almost an addiction, seeing these women.
CUOMO: So I get that. But it still doesn`t explain the compulsion to kill.
RIFKIN: Well, initially the self-lie was that if I do something horrible or just corrupt this whole thing in a large way, that I could stop going.
CUOMO: So you thought that if I kill one of these women, I`ll never go there again.
RIFKIN: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: "Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo" premiers Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on HLN.
The Dallas Cowboys, their cheerleaders might be internationally famous. But according to a new lawsuit, they sure aren`t paid like they`re superstars.
In fact, they`re not even paid as much as that guy, the mascot. So how much more do you think the mascot makes than she does on the right? Two times
more? Six times more? Ten times more? We`ll let you know next.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. A former Dallas Cowboys cheerleader has filed a suit against America`s team saying that she was
paid less than the team mascot.
[19:00:06] Mascot`s name is Rowdy. And while adorable, he is not a real person. Well, person inside. The one on the right is definitely a real
person, Erica Wilkins. She says she averaged just under $14,400 a year during her three years with the team. While Rowdy, he got 65,000 a year.
That`s almost four-and-a-half times more than what she brought home.
Wilkins suit says that she didn`t make minimum wage or get paid overtime. Dallas Cowboys organization has no comment on the lawsuit. I will bet
Rowdy was good.
Next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD (voice-over): Tonight, the tinder date that turned deadly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do believe that there is evidence of foul play.
BANFIELD: How did a lonely local girl end up dismembered in trash bags?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Parents of the girl deserves to know.
BANFIELD: Her date denied doing anything wrong.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She asked me to drop her off at a friend`s house. I mean, I haven`t heard from her since.
BANFIELD: But her date`s boyfriend had a whole other story.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have never killed anyone in my life. I have never hurt a female in my life.
BANFIELD: He has told different versions of what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe that Aubrey Trail and Bailey Bozwell were two of the last people to have seen her prior to her disappearance.
BANFIELD: And video from home depot isn`t helping the case.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The purchase happened when Luke was still alive.
BANFIELD: Not to mention the interview he gave.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m fully responsible for her death.
BANFIELD: A hair stylist goes missing after work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are on our hands and knees for Jolene to return home.
BANFIELD: And now her co-worker is behind bars.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were arguing. There was weird vibes at the salon between the two of them.
BANFIELD: The woman who used 18 different names found driving the victim`s car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were hoping to see Jolene get out of that vehicle. Who do you think it was? A tangles hair stylist.
BANFIELD: But now, she`s on a hunger strike in jail.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What made her go out there with Jolene.
BANFIELD: Is she trying to starve herself because investigators found out about her past?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What happened at that salon?
BANFIELD: And is there any chance she`s involved in other missing cases?
And a famous American kidnapper.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She stepped aside and let rape and torture and abuse continue, and not only continue, but she encouraged it.
BANFIELD: Could be out and walking among us soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She had six children. How can you have that many children and allow that to happen to another child?
BANFIELD: How could one of Elizabeth Smart`s captors get out of jail so soon?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember Wanda Barzee just -- her hand just clamping down on my leg and just holding onto me.
BANFIELD: Does she still follow the manifest manifesto that convinced her to capture Elizabeth?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know if I wanted to survive, I had to lay there and let it happen.
BANFIELD: And could she still be a danger to others?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.
Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
First dates can be thrilling, but second dates even more so. Because there`s a promise of a relationship on the horizon. And Sydney Loofe was
looking for one. She was a lonely 24-year-old who told her co-worker at the Menards Store how excited she was for her second date. And reportedly
posted this picture to SnapChat right beforehand. Ready for my date, she said.
But that was reportedly the last picture Sydney would ever take or post because after 8:31 that night, her phone went dead and Sydney was reported
missing. Her date seemed quick to defend herself, saying that she dropped Sydney off at a friend`s house and then just had not seen Sydney again.
But that date named Bailey Bozwell had a roommate, this guy, much older man, who was apparently also Bailey`s boyfriend, a boyfriend who says that
he was also with the girls on that date and he was pretty defensive himself.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUBREY TRAIL, SUSPECT IN MURDER OF SYDNEY LOOFE: I`m not wanted for anything. I`m a person of interest. And I`m not really running from
anything. I wish Sydney the best. But as far as the police department (bleep) you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, Mr. Aubrey Trail has since changed his tune a little bit because less than a month after that video was apparently posted to
Facebook, Sydney Loofe`s body was found. And not in one piece. She had been dismembered, placed in trash bags, and scattered in a rural area about
an hour`s drive from Mr. Trail`s house.
Six months later Mr. Trail and that girlfriend Bailey Bozwell were charged with Sydney`s murder. Mr. Trail has apparently tried repeatedly to tell
his story from behind bars saying at one point it was an accident. But now police are telling a different story altogether.
Joining me now is Paul Hammel, a reporter with the Omaha World Herald. He spoke with the alleged killer. Also, certified death investigator and
professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan is with me tonight. And defense attorney Eric Johnson joins me as
well. Thank you to all three of you.
Paul, let me begin with you. This is a very weird story because Sydney Loofe had been hissing. Sydney Loofe`s body was found. But those two
people, Bailey Bozwell, the 24-year-old young woman, and Aubrey Trail, her 51-year-old boyfriend weren`t actually charged with this for a long time
and were making strange videos and strange overtures.
That first one was the Facebook strange thing with the glasses and the hoodie. It`s all very weird. But it sounds like, from what Mr. Trail has
been saying over and over again, he wants to take responsibility for this and somehow get Bailey Bozwell off the hook. Does that sound accurate?
[19:06:20] PAUL HAMMEL, REPORTER, OMAHA WORLD-HERALD (on the phone): That`s what we have been told. That`s what we kind of anticipated. Once
they were arrested, they were separated. And Bailey Bozwell has not talked to investigators, unlike Aubrey Trail who will call any media and has
talked to investigators more than once. So this was apparently his way to communicate the story to be told to her through the media.
BANFIELD: So you think he is sending out messages by giving all these strange interviews. And by the way, in these strange interviews, let`s be
really clear, he is taking responsibility, but he is also being very clever not to say I murdered her. He is saying it was some sex accident gone
wrong. But there is one really big problem with that theory, Paul. And that is a videotape of this pair at the home depot buying things that you
can use to cut up a body. And when were they buying those things, Paul?
HAMMEL: Well, I mean, there`s been speculation that this was some kind of human trafficking incident. But this revelation that came out yesterday,
that they were at a home depot store eight hours before Sydney Loofe was picked up on this final date, buying equipment and tools that could be used
to, you know, dispose of a body.
BANFIELD: That`s kind of critical. Let`s just ruminate on that for a minute, what you just said. While we are at it, throw up the timeline that
puts that little nugget of information in the timeline.
The first date is November 14th. She is happy. She tells her co-worker she is psyched about the second date. But before she can even get out on
that second date in the morning of the 15th, the suspects are spotted at home depot buying tools that the police say are likely the tools that were
used the dismember her. And then later after work, later that`s when Sydney Loofe shows up for the second tinder date. So the dismembering
tools or the alleged dismembering tools were purchased well before any sex accident is alleged to have happened. That is very significant, Paul.
Then she is reported missing the next day. Then a month and a half later remains are found. And then another day later more remains are found.
It`s hard to suggest that, oops, something went wrong and we disposed of the body. Isn`t it?
HAMMEL: Yes. The timeline was like 10:30 in the morning, bought these supplies. They picked up Sydney Loofe at 6:30 at night. You know, her
phone went dead at 8:30 at night. They found the body about three weeks after this date. And, you know, the speculation about, you know, why would
they want to kill her just continues, you know. We didn`t hear anything about that yesterday. Why --
BANFIELD: Except for that he was talking about strange sex that, you know, he was alluding to two other girls and Bailey was wasted in the other room.
He was saying all sorts of crazy stuff, that this was an extension cord that went wrong.
Let me play the other weird part of this whole story. Before these two are even charged with anything they reportedly posted this thing on Facebook
and I can`t even describe how odd it is. But it is Bailey Bozwell in the front wearing these crazy glasses and a hood and it is Aubrey Trail, the
older boyfriend sort of out of frame doing most of the talking. And they`re both professing how they had nothing to do with this. Take a look
at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAIL: Good morning, Lincoln and Omaha and probably several other places. This is Aubrey Trail and this is Bailey Bozwell. I guess you also know her
as Audrey. If we make a slip on this video and say something that you find incriminating, please let us know.
As far as I know, I`m not wanted for anything. I`m a person of interest. And I`m not really running from anything. I pray for Sydney. I hope she`s
found soon. And I wish the family the best. I`m sorry that she wasn`t with you on thanksgiving. And that`s pretty much all I can say for now.
Here`s Bailey to tell you whatever she wants to.
[19:10:39] BAILEY BOZWELL, SUSPECT IN MURDER: I just kind of want to tell you what I`ve already told the Lincoln police more than one time. I went
to take her home and she asked me to drop her off at a friend`s house so I did so. I gave her my number. We were planning to go to the casino that
weekend. I mean, I haven`t heard from her since. I just -- I really don`t even know what else to say.
TRAIL: I wish Sydney the best. But as far as the police department, (bleep) you.
BOZWELL: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: That was the middle finger in case you couldn`t make that out. Both of them flashing the bird and saying f-you to the police.
By the way, that thing went on for about ten minutes. That was the edited down version. Weird, weird, weird. And maybe what`s more weird is this
February videotape, actually it is an audio tape, is a jailhouse phone call from this guy, Aubrey Trail, all the sudden changing his tune completely,
instead of saying I feel for her, we don`t know what happened, I`m not wanted for anything, here`s what he said instead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRAIL: I killed Sydney Loofe. And I`m fully responsible for her death. Sydney Loofe was not kidnapped by physical or electronic means. Bailey
Bozwell had nothing to do with the death of Sydney Loofe. She was in the house it happened in, but was not in the room when Sydney died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, that`s different.
Joseph Scott Morgan, originally, the word was that it was crazy sex that had gone wrong. The landlord smelled a lot of bleach. That gave them
probable cause to do a warrant and search, you know, this basement apartment where these two were living. But the only thing we can tell you
is that the cause of death is homicidal violence including strangulation. If she was dismembered and scattered, does that do a terrible service to
those who are trying to prosecute? In terms of the evidence? Or can you pretty much dispel what they are saying based on body parts?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: Yes. You probably can, Ash. And this is what I would think of immediately. First off, they
didn`t do a sufficient job in dismembering the body. My suspicion is, is that there was still evidence probably in the soft tissue of the neck that
demonstrated this ligature. And we can also rely on findings relative to the eyes where we look for things like petechial in the case of (INAUDIBLE)
type deaths.
The thing about it is and I always find this quite curious in cases like this, when you have someone that is trying to cover their tracks, they seem
to make a bigger mess of it. They create more evidence. And, in fact, this case is evidence rich.
BANFIELD: Well, but then you have got a guy like Aubrey Trail who did this in court when he was asked does he have a lawyer, and he is like no. Do
you want to represent yourself and he`s like yes. And this is how he said it. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you wish to be represented by an attorney in this case?
TRAIL: No, your honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are not requesting counsel?
TRAIL: No, I have an attorney coming to speak to me tomorrow, and I`ll decide then. But right now I would like to proceed pro se.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Pro se.
So Eric Johnson, it is often said and correct if I get it backwards. A man who has himself for a lawyer has a fool for a client.
JOHNSON: That`s pretty that`s it. That`s it.
BANFIELD: A man who has himself as a lawyer has a fool for a client. I think they both mean the exactly the same things. But this man is up
against something excruciatingly serious. And there`s home depot video of him with his girlfriend buying things that can chop up a body before the
date even begins. So his story kind of falls apart. At this point, don`t you think he needs a real lawyer? And can that even help?
JOHNSON: Well, I mean, anybody faced with a capital crime definitely would need legal representation. In this particular situation there is going to
have to be some kind of tie-in with the actual items that were purchased and any evidence that can be found on the body. Just because the items
could have been used to dismember the body does not mean that they were the items that were used. And if there is no connection between the two, then
his story of possible accidental strangulation is something that could possibly fly.
BANFIELD: Well, you know how juries feel about coincidences, right? You are buying all that stuff the day she actually goes missing, juries hate
those coincidences. But I have got to leave it there.
Paul Hammel, thank you. Joseph Scott Morgan, thank you. And Eric Johnson, I`m going to ask you to stick around if you will.
Tonight, the desperate search continues for a missing hairdresser, this woman, Jolene Cummings, while the prime suspect in her disappearance has
decided to go on a hunger strike in jail. Now, why on earth would she do that?
Also, a judge is coming down hard on Angelina Jolie and forcing her to play nice in her bitter custody fight with Brad Pitt or risk losing all of those
six kids. \
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:20:45] BANFIELD: Tonight in Duvall County, Florida, there is a woman sitting in jail who is facing charges of grand theft auto. You might not
think that`s a big deal. This woman was allegedly caught on camera driving this car, a car that belonged to her co-worker. She is booked under the
name Jennifer Siburg. But that is not her real name. Her real name is Kimberly Kessler. And it turns out Kim has been using fake names for years
like Christina Melissa Brook, Christina Young, Pamela Clever, Maya Stone and at least 12 other aliases.
And investigators are digging deep into this woman`s past. Because they are trying to figure out what she was doing in 33 different cities over the
course of the last two decades because this woman may only be charged with grand theft auto for driving that co-worker`s car. But whatever name she
is using she is the only named suspect in the case of that co-worker going missing.
The hair stylist mother of three whose car, Ms. Kessler allegedly abandoned within hours of the disappearance of Jolene Cummings, a woman whose family
and friends are accepting a month into this whole ordeal, they may never see Jolene alive again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF BILL LEEPER, NASSAU COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: We have obtained evidence which we are not releasing at this time which leads us to believe
Jolene is not alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Here is what`s troublesome. The investigators have not yet revealed what that evidence is. But we do know they are looking into
Kessler. And we also know something strange that`s happened in the jail where Kessler was being held. She just decided to go ahead and stop
eating, right after the police starting peeping into her past and all those aliases.
And Kimberly Kessler has pulled off a nearly two-week long hunger strike, all at the same time as Kimberly Kessler or whatever name she was using had
an ex-boyfriend who is now talking and attesting to what kind of person this woman is.
Joining me now, Dan Scanlan, crime reporter for the Florida Times. Also still with me is CNN contributor Cedric Alexander and defense attorney Eric
Johnson.
OK, Dan, what kind of woman is Kimberly Kessler, aka something else 18 times, particularly, what is this ex-boyfriend saying about her, this ex-
boyfriend?
DAN SCANLAN, CRIME REPORTER, THE FLORIDA TIMES (on the phone): Well, the ex-boyfriend was interviewed by Action News Jacksonville and he goes back
to 2004 and he basically said quote "sometimes she would get so mad she would fall down in a fetal position and start rocking back and forth." He
knew her as Jennifer Siburg. That`s the name that she was working at the hair salon in Florida when Jolene Cummings had disappeared. They were co-
workers -- Siburg. Kessler has been there for about a month.
BANFIELD: As a hairdresser, right? They would both been hairdressers, at this salon, and I guess that`s what, you know, Kimberly Kessler was doing
now, even though apparently she has had all sorts of professions, truck driver, worked in restaurants, apparently worked at a temp agency. And
that`s just sort of the tip of the iceberg.
SCANLAN: And many of those were actually within a few counties of here, St. Johns county to the south of us as well as the list goes on and on
according to what the sheriff said at both news conferences, 32 cities, 14 states, at least 17 different aliases, all since she was sort of
unofficially listed as missing in Pennsylvania back in the early 2000s.
BANFIELD: So, Dan, the weird thing is all these different names. Let`s just throw the names up if we can. And, I mean, it might have to be an
actual scroll. Yes, we are going to have to scroll it because there`s too many to fit on one page.
Here are all the names she`s been using over the last couple of decades, or at least 16 years or so. Some of them are kind of similar, like Pamela
Jean Kleive, Jean Seaver Allen, Jennifer Seibring. But some of them are really different like Melissa Losey, just odd or Mia Stone. Al the while,
she has been moving around a lot, too, Dan.
Let`s just pop up the map that shows the 33 different cities. See the red marks. She has been living in 33 cities, in 14 states, all just since
1996. And while we sort of drink in that oddness, her ex-boyfriend said that she apparently couldn`t keep a job. At one point she would had 11
jobs in a year. It`s almost one a month. What are they saying about the hunger strike? I find this very odd. Do we know why, specifically, she
decided to stop eating?
[19:25:29] SCANLAN: Yes. The sheriff of Nassau County emailed me this afternoon to tell me that he had shown her a copy of the story that I wrote
when it was announced that she had all these aliases and apparently that`s when she stopped eating, and apparently claiming that she would not eat
again unless she was transferred to another facility. So they moved her on the 11th right here to Duval County jail. Apparently, she has begun eating
again, but the sheriff`s own comment to me in an email this afternoon was we won`t bring her back yet.
BANFIELD: I still don`t really understand, you know, why you quit eating just because someone did a report on you and you are being investigated.
Stop investigating me? Or I`m going to starve myself to death? It doesn`t make sense.
SCANLAN: Nothing seems to make sense. When we hear from the sheriff that literally when the people of Nassau County find out about this they are
going to be absolutely amazed at how quote/unquote "very unusual" this case is. I can only cringe when I think about what we might find out eventually
when it all gets released.
BANFIELD: Well, let me bring in Cedric Alexander on that. You know, Cedric, one of the things that the police officers actually said what that
we are all going to be shocked apparently, the community will be shocked when we provide all the details behind this crime. Why say that? I mean,
why sort of release that? Because it sort of says to me, you know, maybe we should know more at this point before we pass judgment on a hunger
strike. A hunger strike is serious. It`s usually meant to point out something`s going wrong in here and I want to highlight to the public that
something`s going wrong in this jail.
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I don`t know the reason for the police making the statement in which they did, kind of
telegraphing there may be more. And there may be more. I think we are going to see that over time. But in terms of the hunger strike itself, I`m
quite sure they are going to do a psychological evaluation of this suspect.
BANFIELD: Because, you know, I get the sense when I hear hunger strike they are trying to squeeze me in here, you know. If she is responsible,
and she is not charged with, you know, the disappearance of Jolene Cummings, she is not. She is charged with driving her car, grand theft
auto. But if they are trying to squeeze information out of her through the treatment in the jail, that would make sense for a hunger strike. Does
that make sense to you?
ALEXANDER: No, not necessarily. You know, here again, we don`t know who she is. And there may be some psychological stuff there going on. But to
infer that, you know, the police may be somehow putting pressure on her, I think the evidence subsequently is going to speak for itself. If we look
at what we know right now, Ashleigh, I think anybody reasonable could say that there is -- there`s a little smoke here. Let`s go investigate if
there`s a fire. And that`s what`s taking place.
Now in terms of the hunger strike itself, for her it could be a strategy to deflect. It could be a way of slowing down the criminal justice process in
which she is getting ready to confront. Who knows? We don`t know. We don`t know her psychological state. But I just think that as this
continues to unfold and I suspect, don`t know, but suspect as they gather further evidence that might be suggestive of serial deaths being involved
in this, it`s going to be interesting to see going forward.
BANFIELD: You know what, Eric Johnson, it seems, you know, at first blush when you hear all these different aliases were used, boy, that`s going to
complicate things. There are a lot of law enforcement officers saying thank God, because that provides a trove of information for this
investigation, do you agree?
JOHNSON: Well, yes. I mean, it provides a lot of information into the background of a particular defendant. However, it may not give much
information to solve this particular crime. And her hunger strike that she undergo may be a result of some crimes she may have committed under the
other aliases, and she is possibly trying to lay the foundation for some type of insanity or some type mental instability to factor into some of
those investigations that the authorities don`t know about at this time.
BANFIELD: All right. My thanks to all of you, Dan Scanlan, Cedric alexander, Eric Johnson.
Got this story out of California, tonight Angelina Jolie has been told to give Brad Pitt more access to all those kids that they share. It is not
unusual to hear something like that in a custody dispute. But what is unusual is that Angelina Jolie is being told she has to inform her children
that a relationship with their father is not harmful and that they are safe with Brad Pitt. And according to a new court order that`s what she is
actually going to have to tell the kids about Brad.
[19:30:20]
Makes you wonder why. Brad Pitt was also granted unrestricted phone access to those children. The order also outlined a shared custody schedule for
the summer with Jolie keeping primary physical custody. The Hollywood superstars separated in 2016 and filed for divorce shortly after that.
They have three sons and three daughters, ages 16 on down. And the judge had another warning. You could lose custody, Angelina, if you do not abide
by these orders. Very surprising. Everybody thought how do you parent six kids? It`s so difficult. Well, apparently, it is difficult.
Tonight, that dancing FBI agent who accidentally shot a bystander when his gun fell out of the holster, or out of his pants, or whatever the heck his
gun was doing while he was doing flips and dancing in Denver, he is out of jail and he is now facing second-degree assault charges. 29-year-old
Steven Bishop (ph) was in Denver for FBI training when this little thing on video happened. He was much less animated in the court appearance than he
was on the dance floor, dressed in a conservative navy suit, white shirt, blue tie. Agent Bishop is due back in court next month. He could face
more charges depending on the results of his blood alcohol testing. So, stay tuned.
Kidnapping and rape survivor Elizabeth Smart speaking out, none too happy about the prospect that one of her captors could be set free. How on earth
could that happen?
Also, a new lawsuit against America`s team claims a Dallas Cowboys cheerleader made a mere fraction of what the team`s mascot named Rowdy
made. So, if you had to venture a guess, two times less money, 10 times less money? Wait till you find out.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: You know the name Elizabeth Smart, and if you remember her story, you might remember two other names as well. Brian David Mitchell
and Wanda Barzee, the couple that held the14-year-old girl captive for nine months. After Mitchell kidnapped her at knife point from her bed inside
her family home in Salt Lake City, he raped Elizabeth multiple times, almost daily, claiming that this was the Christian thing to do. And
sometimes, it was Wanda helping him to execute the plan. And Wanda keeping Elizabeth from running, grabbing Elizabeth hard by the knee when a police
officer approached them in a public library and questioned them, warning her, stay quiet. It took nearly 10 years to bring the couple to justice
after Elizabeth was finally rescued because both Mitchell and Barzee claimed incompetence, that they weren`t capable of standing trial.
But Mitchell was finally given two life sentences. And Barzee, for her part, 15 years behind bars. And if you can believe it, this woman is
already up for parole. And if you can believe it, the parole board is already talking about whether or not they might just let her go. Even as
concerns are raised about whether Barzee is a changed woman, or taking responsibility for what she`s done.
I want to bring in CNN Correspondent Jean Casarez. She`s interviewed Elizabeth Smart and attended Brian David Mitchell`s trial. Also, Elizabeth
Smart`s former Attorney Greg Skordas is with me. He`s also the former Salt Lake County Deputy District Attorney. And Eric Johnson remains with me as
well.
Jean Casarez, let me begin with you. Why does it feel as though this just happened? Why does it feel as though those two were just sent away as
opposed to almost up for parole?
CASAREZ (via telephone): Right. Well, in regard to Wanda Barzee, she is the one that`s eligible for parole in 2024, which is not too far away. And
she was sentenced to a federal term of 15 years and to a state term of 15 years. But the prosecutors, believe it or not, recommended they be served
concurrently, which, of course, we all know means together. And so, that is why that the time is running short now at this point. And Elizabeth
Smart is speaking out that she doesn`t want her released.
[19:39:51] BANFIELD: Yes, it`s hard to believe when you see these pictures. We all covered the story when Elizabeth was captured. She was
14. For much of her captivity, she was 15. But now, she`s 30. I mean, that is -- that tells you how long this ordeal has gone on. I want to
read, if I can, from Elizabeth`s Instagram post. She just posted this yesterday regarding a parole hearing for Wanda Barzee. In part, she says,
"What I find troubling is that regardless of her threat level, she will be released in 2024, six years from now. It is possible that she could be
paroled before then. Hopefully not. I do not think I`m a vindictive revengeful person. If change were truly possible in her case, then,
perhaps, parole release could be justified. But I have recently learned that she is still carrying around a manuscript called "The Book of Immanuel
David Isaiah," and is reading from it. In this manuscript were the revelations that Brian David Mitchell received from God to kidnap myself
and six other young girls to all become his wives."
And it goes on from there as well. I want to play this moment, Jean, if I can, where you interviewed Elizabeth Smart on this program to talk a little
bit about Wanda`s role in that nine months of captivity. What Wanda did, what she was like, and what Elizabeth thinks of her, have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELIZABETH SMART, VICTIM: I think it is easy to overlook her because Brian Mitchell, he is the one that forced his way into my home, he`s the one that
held me at knife point, he`s the one that raped me. He did all these terrible things. But she was a mother. She had came from a prior
marriage. She had six children. And honestly, part of me feels like she`s more evil because of that. Because she was -- well, I don`t want to say
mother, but she did have six children. And how can you have that many children and allow that to happen to another child, and let rape and
torture and abuse continue? And not only continue, but she encouraged it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Greg Skordas, it`s hard to imagine what Elizabeth went through. I don`t think any of us ever could. You have spent so much time with her
as her former attorney. How much of the process was she involved in? Meaning, when a plea bargain is struck, victims are often part of it. How
much did Elizabeth play a part in the 15 years that Barzee got?
GREG SKORDAS, FORMER ATTORNEY FOR ELIZABETH SMART: Both the federal prosecutors and the state prosecutors conferred with her quite a bit
throughout the entire process and she was very involved. And even though, as Jean indicated earlier, these sentences were run concurrently. She
served -- Wanda Barzee served her entire 15-year federal sentence, and with good time you do 85 percent, so, essentially 13 years, and now, is serving
the state sentence. So, it`s not as though she`s going to simply do 15 years. By the time she gets out in 2024, if that`s the case, she will have
served closer to 22 or 23 years. But the family was very involved in the plea bargaining process and the sentencing process and in the ultimate time
that Wanda Barzee will ultimately serve.
BANFIELD: I mean, this has got to be sort of victimization all over again as this young woman who has done such an incredible job getting her life
back on track, owning it, and being a victim`s rights advocate. She`s written books, she`s been out on tour. She`s such an amazing citizen. And
then, to have to sort of go through this. When we come back after the break, I want to ask you if there`s any possibility, Greg, that Wanda
Barzee could be held longer, if there`s anything that the system could see in this woman and say she`s not ready, and then, I also want to play a
moment from Elizabeth Smart where when she was dressed like this and veiled by her captors, and a policeman approached, what was it that held her back
from saying help me, help me, rescue me, these people have captured me, because that didn`t happen. That`s next.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still talking about one of the most famous kidnappers in American history, the woman who held 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart captive
for nine months. She was sentenced to 15 years behind bars. But now, Wanda Barzee is up for parole. Is she going to get out? My panel is still
with me.
I want to play this moment so that everyone can really understand what it`s like for a 14-year-old who is afraid for her life. And Greg Skordas, as a
former attorney for Elizabeth Smart, I know you know her well, but I don`t think anybody can know what it`s like to be 14 years old and have been in
captivity for two months. Because this is what happened, two months into her captivity, she`s in a public library, she`s veiled, she`s with these
monsters, and a police officer shows up, and she doesn`t cry out for help. And here`s what she said to Jean Casarez as to why she didn`t.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMART: I was hopeful. I was hopeful that he would rescue me. I was hopeful that he would see through everything. But as soon as he approached
us, as soon as he flashed his badge, I remember Wanda Barzee just -- her hand just clamping down on my leg and she`s holding onto me, and it was
just like -- it was just like -- it was like being kidnapped all over again.
[19:50:08]It was just like reliving everything that had happened to me all over again. It was like she was saying if you want to live, if you want
your family to live, you`ll sit here and you won`t say anything and you won`t do anything. And it was terrifying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Now, Greg Skordas, I just find that heart-breaking to hear that beacuse she endured seven more months of captivity and rape. When it comes
to Wanda Barzee, she told her jailer she didn`t want to go to her parole hearing and refused to go. She also refused to meet with her prison
psychologist. That tells me she`s not going to get out early. But is there any way possible that anything could happen where she doesn`t even
get out on time when she`s supposed to in 2024?
SKORDAS: So, not with respect to the prison system. She served her 15- year federal commitment. She is serving her 15-year state commitment, that ends in 2024 as you`ve discussed, and she will never be in a prison again
for this conduct. The only way she could be housed after that time is if the Utah State Prison authorities decide, Ashleigh, that she is a danger to
herself or others, to the point where she needs to be housed in the state mental hospital, and that`s a secure facility. It`s a place where she
cannot get out and it`s a place that she could be ordered to go. And it`s actually a place where she served her first 9-1/2 years of this commitment
while they were trying to decide if she was even competent to go to trial, and if she was even able to help the attorneys who are representing her at
the trial.
BANFIELD: Yes. Well, let`s hope. Honestly, let`s hope. Given what Elizabeth said, how she`s still carrying her on this manifesto. Let`s hope
that there is some other option other than her walking amongst us again.
Greg Skordas, thank you so much. My thanks to Jean Casarez as well. I`m going ask Eric Johnson (ph) to stay on with us.
In HLN`s Original Series "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO," Chris takes viewers inside the country` most dangerous minds. And this Sunday, he
delves into the psyche of one of America`s most notorious serial killers, Joel Rifkin. And he asked the tough questions about Joel`s sordid sex life
and why he brutally murdered 17 different women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, HLN HOST: You`re doing this because of the pursuit of why, right? What makes you different than me, and I know this is something that
you are trying to figure out still to this day. Is that true?
JOEL RIFKIN, AMERICAN SERIAL KILLER: Yes.
CUOMO: But your life has been dominated by a very fundamental decision which was, I`m not just going to go and get what I need from these people,
sexually, I`m going to kill them. Why?
RIFKIN: There`s a lot of self-lying. It was almost an addiction seeing these women.
CUOMO: So, I get that. But it still doesn`t explain the compulsion to kill.
RIFKIN: Well, initially, this self-lie was that if I do something horrible for just corrupt this whole thing and in a large way that I could stop
knowing.
CUOMO: So, you thought that if I kill one of these women, I will never go there again.
RIFKIN: Right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO" premieres Sunday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on HLN.
The Dallas Cowboys, their cheerleaders might be internationally famous. But according to a new lawsuit, they sure aren`t paid like they`re
superstars. In fact, they are not even as paid as much as that guy, the mascot. So, how much more do you think the mascot makes than she does, on
the right? Two times more, six times more, 10 times more? We`ll let you know, next.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. Who do you think would make more money? An internationally recognized Dallas Cowboy`s cheerleader
who works hard every day or the Dallas Cowboys` mascot named Rowdy? Whoever the dude is inside that costume. If you guessed that those hard-
working cheerleaders would make more, you are wrong and you`re not just a little wrong. You`re wrong by tens of thousands of dollars. According to
a lawsuit filed by former Dallas Cowboy`s Cheerleader Erica Wilkins, Rowdy, the mascot, made almost 4-1/2 times more money than she did while she was
working with the team. Wilkins says that she averaged just under $14,400 a year during her three years with the team. Well, Rowdy, that guy on the
left, he raked in $65,000 a year. Just think about that for a minute. Wilkins` lawsuit said that she didn`t even make minimum wage or get paid in
the overtime and she`s looking to recover past wages. For their part, the Dallas Cowboy`s organization has no comment. I wouldn`t, either.
See you back here tomorrow night, 6:00 p.m. Eastern time. Thanks for watching, everybody. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.
END