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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Real Or Fake, Man Accused Of Murdering Toddler; Russian Roulette Game Turns Deadly; Real-Life Horror; Premieres Sunday; One More Thing; Rachel DelTonto Murder; Andrew Erdialis, A Seriously Twisted Serial Killer Was Sentenced To Death; "Welcome Home From Prison, Mom"; Wife Dead In `Psycho-Style` Shower Attack;. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired June 14, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Crime and Justice." Tonight,
the man who`s not only accused of killing his girlfriend`s 3-year-old daughter, but hiding her body not far from the home and then telling police
a whole other story in an Oscar worthy call. Kyle Peltz here on top of this one. What happened?
KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right. Just wait until you hear this 911 call, her body found in a shallow grave, not for from the
home. Covered in injuries. Ashleigh, if this man did kill her, he sure can act.
BANFIELD: All right. We`ll look forward to hearing that call, thank you. Kyle.
Also happening tonight, a deadly game gets even more disturbing when a teenage boy is left to bleed out after allegedly playing a twisted version
of Russian roulette. Dave Siegel is covering this story for us. Dave, his so-called friends are the one`s accused of doing terrible things after he
was shot. And it just sends chills up your spine.
DAVE SIEGEL, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Ashleigh, the allegations against them, the worst ones are yet to come, hiding him in a closet after he was dead,
painting a disgusting message on the closet door, stealing his money. But is it murder? The boys involved say it was just a game gone wrong.
BANFIELD: God, all right, we will look into that in a moment. Thank you, Dave. And then like a scene out of the movie "Psycho," a businessman stabs
his wife to death in the shower and then allegedly jokes around with the police. How long is he going to spend behind bars? And how did their own
children react?
And later, the one that got away from a serial killer, that is. The only known survivor takes us back to the place where she was abducted and
tortured and then shows us how she lived to tell this story. All at the same time as a jury decides what`s going to happen to him.
First, though, let me take you to North Carolina where 27-year-old Billy McCullen is sitting in a cell preparing for the fight of his life.
Because, it doesn`t get more serious than the murder of a defenseless baby girl. Little Jordan Dumont belonged to his girlfriend. And together the
couple had another little girl too. In fact, little Jordan was wearing a best big sister t-shirt when her killer started covering her lifeless
little body with dirt. And police think Billy did it. But it should did not seem that way when Billy called 911, to report that the little girl had
gone missing on a Monday as he was watching the kids. In fact, he seemed downright desperate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gaston County 911, what`s the address of your emergency?
BILLY MCCULLEN, CHILD KILLER: Yes, ma`am, my oldest daughter, I was taking a nap, I just woke up, and I can`t find her anywhere. I went to the
neighbor`s, and they`re not home, I don`t know where she is at.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is she?
MCCULLEN: She is about to be 4 next month. I have a newborn with me too, a 1-year-old, and I got her and I can`t find the other one. I really need
some help right now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you looked under the bed and in the closets?
MCCULLEN: No, ma`am, I called her name though. I can`t find her anywhere. I went next door. I`ve been calling her name outside. I can`t find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She might have fallen asleep. I need you to look under the beds while I start sending people that way. OK?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am. My wife`s at work. She`s about to be home and I don`t know where my daughter is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she a white female?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am. She is wearing blue jeans and a long sleeve Mickey Mouse shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what color is her hair?
MCCULLEN: It`s brownish blond. I`ve got to go next door. I want to check the neighbor`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You stay with me for just a minute. I`ve got people on the way for you, OK. You said she has light brown hair?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And she was wearing blue jeans and a long sleeve Mickey Mouse shirt.
MCCULLEN: Blue short jeans and a long sleeve Minnie Mouse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blue jean shorts and a long sleeve Minnie Mouse shirt?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
MCCULLEN: Please come out. I don`t know if she is just hiding or what. I don`t know. I can`t find her anywhere. She don`t do this. My door was
wide open, and I can`t find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, listen to me. The front door was open?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am. Please come help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is on a corded phone. So he is having to tell me something and then run. He is freaking. Like my wife could be home any
minute. I can`t find my little girl.
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am. They`re here now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You heard that one point where he suggested that little Jordan might be hiding. Well, police say Billy McCullen was the one doing the
hiding, hiding the little girl`s body. Because the next morning they found her. She was in the woods, just yards, in fact, from the family`s home.
[18:05:04] She`d been wrapped up in a fitted black sheet. And she`d been buried in a shallow grave. And her body, all 32 pounds of it, was covered
with brutal injuries.
I want to bring in my panel. Adam Lawson is a reporter for the Gaston Gazette. Also jury consultant Carolyn Robbins Manley is with us. And
defense attorney, Rachel Kugel is here as well. Adam, let me begin with you, it just seemed so convincing, that phone call, that 911 call sounded
like a desperate, desperate father. I mean, it was his girlfriend`s daughter, but he was the father figure. When did it turn to suspect?
ADAM LAWSON, REPORTER, GASTON GAZETTE: The search lasted from Monday into Tuesday. And from the first day, this was a missing person`s case. I
mean, people were scavenging the woods, in the house and all around the neighborhood. Helicopters were called in to try to find this little girl.
And Mr. McCullen was actually outside the house. He was pretty emotional. He didn`t enter -- he did not do an interview or some sort, but he told us
that he was -- looking to find his little girl. At some point he was taken away for questioning by the Gaston police, but -- it wasn`t until the next
day when a search party had been called from local community members to look for her, and she was found, that it really began to definitively, you
know, have an answer that this was a homicide.
BANFIELD: So, I`m seeing those pictures of him outside the scene, and I am assuming that is when they`re still looking for this little girl. And he
just looks all the part of the same person who made that 911 call, a desperate, desperate parent. Now, he is not her biological parent, and
there`s a significance to that. Because that child`s biological father had called the authorities twice prior to this to say go check on my kid. Was
there some suspicion from the number of times that police had to go to that house, not just the two times that biological dad asked, but the 16 times,
I think, in total that they`d been there in 15 months. Adam, was there something that stood out right away when they responded in the first place?
LAWSON: When we heard the pure number of calls to the house, it raised a little bit of suspicion. But then you look at the details of the calls and
they didn`t seem to suggest any kind of violent nature. But there were calls made by the girl`s biological father who lives in Illinois. And he
was concerned because he had heard from the mother. So he called the department -- he called police and they sent Department of Social Services
out there at least a couple times.
BANFIELD: That is never good, you know, I don`t want to dwell on this, because I find this really hard to -- quite frankly hard to stomach, that
this little 32 pound adorable girl was covered in injuries. Numerous injuries to the abdomen, to the arms, to the legs, vomit in her mouth and
in her nose. Reportedly bleeding in the head, wearing her best big sister shirt. And reports, including your own Adam, that say her little shorts
were down around her thighs as well as her underwear. This is what Dusty Connard, a neighbor, had to say about the kinds of things that she heard
going on in that house prior to this adorable little Jordan being found buried a couple hundred yards away. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DUSTY CONNARD, NEIGHBOR: From just hearing them, fighting and stuff up there, and you could hear her screaming through the house, you know, stop,
stop Billy, you know, don`t hit me. You know, it was not a pleasant house up there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Not a pleasant house up there. And I`ll be honest with you, Dusty was not the only neighbor to say that. And Dusty was not the only
neighbor to see something as well. Kaleigh Connard, another neighbor, saw something that I think would take most of our breath away. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KALEIGH CONNARD, NEIGHBOR: I was sitting on the front porch, and Jordan and Billy was outside and she was crying and he hit her in the chest and
she fell off the porch.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So two witnesses, two neighbors saying that they saw that kind of violence or they heard that kind of violence. And yet, when Billy
McCullen calls 911, once again, you be the judge as we continue to give you more of this 911 call, of the drama, of the terror, of the desperation in
that man`s voice. And just imagine for a moment as you`re listening to it, is it possible he is the one that put her in that grave? Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[18:10:17] MCCULLEN: My wife`s at work. She`s about to be home and I don`t know where my daughter is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she a white female?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am. She is wearing blue jeans and a long sleeve Mickey Mouse shirt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And what color is her hair?
MCCULLEN: It`s brownish blond. I`ve got to go next door. I want to check the neighbor`s house.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You stay with me for just a minute. I`ve got people on the way for you, OK. You said she has light brown hair?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am, please come out. I don`t know if she is just hiding or what. I don`t know, I can`t find her anywhere. She don`t do this. My
door was wide open, and I can`t find her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, listen to me -- the front door was open?
MCCULLEN: Yes, ma`am.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK, well, that is a lot. Especially if you`re going to sit in a jury and have to assess whether that guy was a desperate father figure
trying to find a little girl or whether that was a desperate man trying to figure out a way out of the mess he is just found himself in. So, Carolyn
Robbins Manley, as a jury consultant, this are the kind of things you have to deal with when you are picking that panel. What on earth are you
looking for when you have evidence like that?
CAROLYN ROBBINS MANLEY, JURY CONSULTANT: Well, yes, it`s very strong. And I can answer your question. But, you know, listening to the 911 tape
myself, I think even though you can look at it both ways, as you said, and both sides are going to be arguing whether it was a desperate father or
someone trying to cover up, I think it`s going to raise a lot of questions for the jury that are going to have to be answered, including he is got her
in a Mickey Mouse or Minnie Mouse t-shirt and yet she is found in this best big sister t-shirt. So that is a little suspect right there.
I mean, yes, maybe the shirt could have been changed. But I think they`re going to pick up on that. I think they`re going to want to know when the
911 call was placed, and a timeline is going to be very important for probably both sides. But certainly seem when he was left alone with this
child and when he actually decided to pick up this phone.
But, you know, jurors -- defense attorneys are always looking for jurors who have been wrongly accused. Who don`t trust the police, who, you know,
may be suspect of evidence, DNA evidence, things like that. So, you know, when you`re selecting a jury in a case like this, those are the things that
side certainly would be looking for. I always say you don`t really pick a jury. You actually don`t select them, you deselect them. You try to get
rid of people who are, you know --
BANFIELD: I always say if you do your best. But even the O.J. Simpson trial picked that jury. So you do what you can, but you can`t always get
what you want. Rachel, that is the kind of evidence that in the business we call bad facts, or is it?
RACHEL KUGEL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the truth is we don`t know a lot about forensically what exists in this case. I mean, we know
circumstantially the body is found very close to the house, we know we have this sort of feigned or potentially feigned phone call, and there are some
questions about what she was wearing. But there`s been a gag order in this case.
BANFIELD: It could be am Minnie Mouse shirt saying best big sister. We don`t know that, we haven`t seen the pictures of -- obvious we would not
want to, but that would be something the jury would see.
KUGEL: And it brings up the point that we don`t know a lot about the facts about this case, because there`s been a gag order. So it`s hard to see,
you know, what the real evidence against this man is. And how strong that evidence is. I think in terms of jurors, you know, you definitely don`t
want moms of little children, if you can avoid that.
BANFIELD: Boy, no kidding. Even dads. Hey, by the way, Adam, can you still hear me?
LAWSON: I can, yes.
BANFIELD: Do you know if they have anything solid, like something forensic out of that little grave, or something that little girl had on her? I
think some of your reporting suggested there was fluid in her underwear. I don`t know if it was hers or if it is someone else`s. He is not charged
with rape, he is only charged with first degree murder, which is the most serious it gets. But do you know if there is something else they have
here?
LAWSON: Yes. There`s no indications there was any kind of sexual violence.
BANFIELD: Other than her pants are down around her thighs. I mean, who buries a little girl with her pants down, her shorts? Like that, to me,
stood out. But I`m not a forensic investigator.
LAWSON: Sure. It could have been urine, it could have been a different substance. I don`t know what that was. But like someone else mentioned
there is a gag order in place. So, a lot of the forensics evidence will find out when the first time he goes to trial next month.
[18:15:00] BANFIELD: Well, it is distressing to say the least, especially when you see this little angel`s face and then you realize how she was
ultimately found, five to 750 yards away from the place she called home, from the place she should have felt safe, ultimately she will never feel
that. And I don`t know that anybody in that home ever will either. Adam Lawson, thank you, Carolyn Robbins Manley, thank you. Rachel Kugel, I am
asking you to stay on with us.
There is absolute outrage in Los Vegas tonight, after a 17-year-old is shot to death. Two teenagers are in custody. They say that this was all
because of Russian roulette. But if that is the case, then why did they allegedly leave him bleeding out on the kitchen floor and by the way
allegedly steal all the money out of his wallet? Is this a tragic accident, or is this something far more sinister?
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: The boys who were with him that night told the police that it was a game gone wrong. Three teenage boys, maybe even a few more, we don`t
know, in an abandoned house playing a version of Russian roulette. But their version of the game ended with this kid, 17 years old, a boy named
Matthew Minkler shot in the face. But his so-called friends, Jaden and Cody did not call 911, did not try to get an ambulance. Instead reportedly
honoring his death with a series of sickening and escalating insults.
First police say they took off, left Matthew to bleed out on the kitchen floor before actually coming back to clean up. But apparently they didn`t
do such a great job, because police say they instead stuffed their friend`s body in a closet before painting it with a jaw dropping message, f Matt,
that was spray painted on the door of the closet. According to local reports, Matt`s friend, Jaden, the one who allegedly pulled the trigger
during this game actually snap chatted Matt`s body, before realizing that he had some blood on his shoes.
So he reportedly tried unsuccessfully to clean that blood off those shoes and then decided to take $300 from Matt`s wallet and use it to buy some new
shoes. And a night of drugs. But the boys apparently also needed a car. So police say they just went ahead and stole one, a Mercedes. Which they
crashed when the cops began to actually give chase. And that is when the boys supposedly began to spill the beans about their night. Jaden saying
the shooting was an accident. But not everybody is buying that story. And Matt, his family, the dead kid, the dead kid`s family, is saying this whole
thing was planned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE MINKLER, VICTIM`S FATHER: I don`t believe any of that Russian roulette stuff. None of my family does. I think -- or we all think that
it was pre-meditated. They were taking him there to kill him in the first place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now is Chris Kudialis, he is a reporter for the Las Vegas Sun. Also on the phone retired police lieutenant Randy Sutton, and
defense attorney Rachel Kugel is still with me as well.
All right, Chris, wow, I mean, this is your backyard. This is Las Vegas. This home doesn`t look like an abandoned home, but there were so many
mortgage backed security houses that went under that were abandoned. I`m wondering if it was one of those homes, but that is allegedly where all
this happened.
CHRIS KUDIALIS, REPORTER, LAS VEGAS SUN: Yes, Ashleigh, right here in the nearby suburb of Henderson, Nevada, neighboring Las Vegas, an abandoned
home like you mentioned. And actually a very nice home. 3,700 square feet as a matter of fact, two-story home, not exactly the place that you would
expect something like this to occur. Obviously neighbors very distraught as well hearing that something like this could occur in a nice suburban
area of metropolitan Las Vegas.
BANFIELD: It`s so unbelievable, this story. But can you help me to understand what these kids allegedly told the police? Or at least what I
think Cody told the police about his friend Jaden. I mean, it seems Cody`s really pushing the finger towards the dark-haired kid. So the light-haired
kid is blaming the dark-haired kid, if I`m not mistaken here, saying it was Russian roulette, yes, but none of us -- we weren`t allowed to touch the
gun. That was what Jaden was doing. He was holding the gun the whole time. Do I have it right?
KUDIALIS: That is absolutely right, Ashleigh. Cody -- as soon as the two teens were arrested after police tracked them down, they actually tried to
escape after crashing the stolen car.
[18:25:06] Reports that potentially more teenagers in that car. But police haven`t made or announced any further arrests. But Cody immediately upon
being interrogated told police that Jaden held the gun, traditional Russian roulette has the person who the gun is pointed at spinning the barrel.
Instead, according to Cody and police, it was Jaden that spun the barrel and shot the victim.
BANFIELD: Yes. Then Matthew Minkler, his parents are saying we don`t believe any of this. We just think that these kids planned this, they
pretended to be our son`s friend, that our son trusted those kids. And now this beautiful, smiling, blond teenager is dead. Is it a gunshot to the
chin? Do you know if it`s to the bottom of the chin, meaning they would be holding the gun vertical, up through the chin, or if it was sort of
straight on? Do you have any idea of the position? Because those forensics will matter.
KUDIALIS: According to the family it was a gunshot wound to his chin. All we have from the Clark County Coroner`s Office is that was the police first
of all said that it was one gunshot wound and the Coroner`s Office here in Clark County has ruled it a homicide.
BANFIELD: So here`s -- here`s Scott Williams. And he is the PIO for the city of Henderson, sort of the official, you know, spokesperson about this.
And he talks about how -- if it`s true that these kids had perpetrated this horrible crime, why on earth would they go out and steal a Mercedes and
drive recklessly, almost falling into the hands of the police? Here`s how he described it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT WILLIAMS, PIO, CITY OF HENDERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: It all started with basically a failing to yield situation, typical reckless driver,
officers attempted to stop the vehicle and they fled. Multiple teenagers got out of the car and fled. With the help of the Las Vegas Police
Department, K-9 units, were able to apprehend on all those that fled. They followed up on those tips which led them to the 2700 block. It is like,
when they made entry inside they found a deceased juvenile, apparent gunshot wounds. We have a 16 and a 17-year-old that were arrested for the
murder and also for accessory to murder. You don`t typically have juveniles that are harming other juveniles in this kind of a fashion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Juveniles, 16 and 17. But here`s what`s weird, Chris, there`s this, you know, fact floating out there that more kids might have been in
that Mercedes, and that more kids might have been in that home. Which means more witnesses to what really happened. Have we been able to chase
down if there were other kids present for that shooting?
KUDIALIS: Not at this point, according to police. But they have put -- made this message very visible. They`ve issued phone numbers, e-mail
addresses for witnesses to come forward and reach out to police. Because, you know, I guess anytime we see this kind of push from police to get more
information, usually a sign that they believe more people might be involved or there`s a significant information missing that they don`t yet have.
BANFIELD: So here`s Scott Williams again describing just sort of how this is hit, the authorities who are trying to process all the different aspects
and timeline of this crime. Have a listen to the way Scott Williams of the City of Henderson put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Just seems very macabre and morbid. And it`s something you don`t typically see with juveniles. It`s just one of those cases that kind
of shock the conscience of anyone that know about the details of the case. If this is true, a real heinous acts committed by people that seem to
showing up no remorse or callous for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Randy Sutton, you know, you used to work Las Vegas. I don`t know that this is unique to Las Vegas, this kind of a crime can happen
anywhere. But the notion, and we don`t have the picture of this, but I`m assuming at some point it will become evidence, the notion that someone
took spray paint after stuffing Matt`s body into that downstairs closet and wrote "f Matt" on the door. As a detective, as a retired police
lieutenant, is that a message they were trying to make it look like someone else, maybe someone more criminal did this, or is this kids having fun with
what they know full well they`ve done?
RANDY SUTTON, RETIRED LAS VEGAS METROPOLITAN POLICE OFFICER: Oh, no. Liz, let`s not make any -- have any doubt about this. This was not Russian
roulette. This was a straight up murder. If you look at the arrest report that was done and the affidavit that was done, there was -- the gun was
recovered from the stolen vehicle. And there was a very telling sentence in there. And that was that there was one expended shell in the gun. That
means that this wasn`t Russian roulette where you put one bullet in and you spin the barrel.
[18:30:00] That means that this gun was fully loaded. So this whole Russian roulette nonsense is just garbage. This was a straight up execution murder.
That`s all this was.
BANFIELD: Well, there`s couple of other things that are pretty telling as well. I`m going to squeeze in a quick break. But when we come back, I`m
going to get you all to weigh in on what these kids were reportedly snap- chatting.
Because the local reports have some pretty awful things that were self-made videos, the police say on the phones of the suspect or at least one of the
suspects, and the local reports say they were having a little fun. Well, this poor kid, Matthew Minkler was bleeding out. I`ll explain that in a
moment. And also talk about the significance of it.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the so-called friends accused of leaving 17-year-old Matthew Minkler bleeding out on the kitchen floor of an
old abandoned house after what they said was a deadly version of Russian roulette, an accident.
Only police called their murderous version no game. They say the young killer took video of the crime scene. And then local reports say it was
snap-chatted. Jaiden Caruso, snap-chatting with Kody Harlan the body of Matt Minkler.
My panel is still with me. Chris, the local reports say that not only was this bleeding body being snap-chatted, but things were being said by these
suspects, by these now defendants. What was being said?
KUDIALIS: Well, according to police in the video, Jaiden, after allegedly shooting Matthew dead said that he caught a body, bragging to friends.
Basically that is a slang term for saying that he shot somebody dead.
So, if you will, according to police, admitting right there on Snapchat that he did in fact shoot somebody dead, and also like you said, Ashleigh,
having video of Matthew`s bleeding body allegedly in the background.
BANFIELD: And then, Chris, is it true that there`s a video that exists or at least that police say there`s a video that exists that shows Jaiden. And
you can hear a voice off camera saying, what do we do with the body?
Jaiden doesn`t respond but goes over to the sink and washes his hands and then can be seen looking as though he might be washing blood off his shoe.
Is that rumor, is that report, is that fact, is that in any police evidence list? Where does that come from?
KUDIALIS: Yeah, Ashleigh, that also came from the arrest report on this crime. So as far as police are concerned, there were three different videos
of the two that we just talked about and also one before the alleged killing that shows Jaiden with the revolver showing it off, basically, to
folks on Snapchat.
BANFIELD: Man, that is not good. Here`s Scott Williams again with the city of Henderson, talking about the fact that Jaiden and Kody may not be the
only kids that are connected to what happened in that house. That there may, in fact, be more and that they better come forward. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT WILLIAMS, CITY OF HENDERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Concerning things about this case is there were witnesses to this homicide, yet they haven`t
come forward or they haven`t told their parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Rachel Kugel, if you are one of these 16 or 17-year-old kids allegedly to have been part of this, or at least to have been present for
it, to have just seen it, and you are hiding out and not saying a word to the police, are you breaking the law by doing that?
KUGEL: So, I don`t think there`s any obligation legally to report something that you`ve seen a crime that you`ve seen occur. Certainly
morally, certainly ethically. But not necessarily legally. They can`t be charged with obstruction merely for failing to report.
Now, that said, I do think that when cases like this happen, there`s often sort of a race to talk. And I do think there`s something to be said. I
understand that these kids -- if they didn`t do anything wrong, but they were just present, are probably freaking out.
But I understand also that in these cases, there`s a race to talk and sometimes it`s important to step up and be the one to tell your own story.
Otherwise, you may be implicated in ways you didn`t intend and in ways you didn`t really participate. And it seems like that`s already sort of
happening in that the story as its shaping up is really that Kody seems to be implicating --
BANFIELD: Pointing the finger at Jaiden.
KUGEL: Exactly.
BANFIELD: Well, Jaiden apparently is, you just heard Chris report seen in one of the videos, according to arrest affidavit --
KUGEL: Exactly.
BANFIELD: -- holding the gun and then washing his -- listen, not only just washing his hands and washing blood off his shoes.
[18:40:00] But then, Randy, here`s what`s extraordinarily troubling, the allegations are that they took $300 out of the wallet of Matt and they
bought new shoes because presumably Jaiden`s shoes were bloody and then spent the rest of it on drugs for the night.
So no matter what the story is about the game, if there was a game and if the game went wrong, all those other things, when a jury hears that kind of
thing, do they give a hoot about the excuse of a game?
SUTTON (via telephone): Well, look, as I said, the whole notion of a game is absurd. This had nothing to do with a game. The gun was loaded with six
bullets. Russian roulette doesn`t have six bullets. So let`s just --
BANFIELD: You don`t think that could have happened after the fact? Listen, there was a criminal pattern after too, running out and stealing a
Mercedes, maybe loading up the gun after. Could a defense attorney not make a case of that?
SUTTON (via telephone): It would be -- it would be a foolish defense. I mean, it doesn`t make any sense. The murder weapon is discovered in the
stolen car with the suspects and its fully loaded except for one expended shell. I`m not buying it. Doesn`t make any sense.
BANFIELD: It`s awfully convenient, I think is the point, does sound convenient. I have to leave it there. Real quick.
SUTTON (via telephone): It`s so chilling that it is absolutely something that the human conscious just really is -- it`s difficult to describe.
BANFIELD: I mean, Jaiden Caruso, 16, Kody Harlan, 17, and the dead child, Matthew Minkler, 17 as well. So distressing. Stay tune to see if there are
other players that join that list of photos. My thanks to Chris Kudialis and Randy Sutton. Rachel, I`m going to ask you to stay on again, if you
will.
Tonight, the police department at the center of the Rachel DelTondo murder investigation, no longer at the center of it. In fact, no longer involved
at all. The Beaver Countian is reporting that the acting police chief whose first day on the job was Monday and is the third chief since this murder,
is going to recuse his officers from the investigation and will ask the Pennsylvania state police for assistance instead.
Rachel DelTondo, a teacher, gunned down in her mother`s driveway on mother`s day. And since her killing, there have been calls for the
Aliquippa Police Department to hand that case over amid all sorts of concerns about the police response and possible conflicts of interest. And
I`d need an hour to outline all the issues. But safe to say now they`ve decided to step aside.
Tonight, a brutal New York death, said to be very similar to the Alfred Hitchcock classic "Psycho." A man admits he stabbed his doctor wife to
death while she was showering. And his behavior after calling the police is nothing short of bizarre. So, is he getting a pretty good deal out of this?
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: They were a New York power couple, he a financial executive, she a pediatrician. But Jules Reich and Dr. Robin Goldman would not be husband
and wife for much longer in this beautiful home, because they were getting a divorce.
And not only that, Jules stabbed Robin to death. He stabbed her about 22 times in the chest, in the back, in the stomach, all while Robin was taking
her morning shower.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THOMAS ALTIZIO, CAPTAIN, SCARSDALE POLICE DEPARTMENT: She was a victim of stab wounds. When Scarsdale officers responded to the scene, she was found
in a lifeless state. Scarsdale paramedics from the Scarsdale Volunteer Ambulance Corps, two separate paramedics checked her and found her to be
DOA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Police say that Jules was the one who actually made the 911 call, seemingly as cool as a cucumber when the officers got there, got to
that multimillion dollar mansion. That`s where they found him, outside the house, smoking, with blood on his hand.
After that, police say he actually started joking around with them, asking one of the officers, what they thought about Donald Trump and Hillary
Clinton, and asking another officer if he needed any help taking those fingerprints. But whether or not Jules is taking his wife`s stabbing
seriously, he`s not going to be paying a serious price. He`s not paying the max anyway.
He`s getting a deal, pleading guilty to first-degree manslaughter rather than second-degree murder, which means he is only at up to 25 years behind
bars rather than the lifetime sentence that he could have been dealt for an attack so brutal that it is being often compared to the main scene from the
murder movie "Psycho," Alfred Hitchcock`s classic from Universal Pictures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[18:50:00] (SCREAMING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: There`s a reason we played that. Because this is the story that`s all around the community, that this was like a scene out of
"Psycho." And I`m wondering if that`s part of the reason you plead to a deal because nobody can get that out of their mind when they think about
that poor doctor having her shower and dying in that way.
KUGEL: Yeah. I mean, I think there is a couple of things here. The defense, he`s been through a series of attorneys. They`ve tried sort of
complicated and creative, let`s say, to say the least, legal tactics, the most recent of which that it was automated behavior, that he was not in
control of his own faculties when he did this. So, they`ve tried different tactics.
BANFIELD: Is automated behavior some other language for bat shit crazy?
KUGEL: Yeah, essentially.
BANFIELD: That to me is insanity defense. Quite frankly, in this respect, it sounds to me like he wasn`t really too aware that anything was so wrong.
Other than to say he thought that I think some homicide might have happened in there.
KUGEL: Yeah. Actually less even than whether it was right and wrong in this case. He was actually saying it was involuntary which is even more
difficult a step to make than just, you know, they were trying to get him out of it completely and not just sent to some kind of institution.
But I think we need to remember here a couple of things. One is, you know, you take a deal because both sides have something to lose.
BANFIELD: Apparently the kids agreed to this. Did we see any pictures of this home, by the way? This is a home in the millions. Scarsdale, New York
is one of the most beautiful places. You know, I think before -- I think the last sale they had some photos of the backyard, the beautiful pool.
There`s apparently a bathhouse, five bedrooms, four bathrooms with pretty pictures inside. I mean, half the time I wonder if people like that have
enough money to get the kinds of lawyers that get those kinds of deals.
KUGEL: Yeah, he`s been through a few lawyers. And that suggests to me, one, that he`s --
BANFIELD: Look at this place, it`s hard to believe.
KUGEL: Yeah. And you know what, that`s I think what`s captured everyone`s attention, is that from the outside it`s a perfect couple, it`s successful,
it`s a beautiful home. And yet this is the result.
BANFIELD: And this is the result.
KUGEL: The only thing I can say is he is in his 60s. So even a 25-year sentence --
BANFIELD: Kind of like a life.
KUGEL: Yeah, you`re right.
BANFIELD: OK, hold that thought. In HLN`s original series "Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo," Chris takes viewers inside the country`s most dangerous
mind. This Sunday, he`s going to delve into the psyche of one of America`s most notorious serial killers, Joel Rifkin. He is asking some pretty tough
questions about Joel`s sordid sex life and why he murdered 17 women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN JOURNALIST (on camera): Did you get a rush from the killing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Did you do it? What do you have to say? What do you have to say, Joel?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Is it true there`s 17 victims?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Joel Rifkin is a psychopath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): He wanted us to know how prolific a killer he had been.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): It was terrifying.
JOEL RIFKIN, NOTORIOUS SERIAL KILLER: In a very quick second, everything changed.
CUOMO (voice over): You were just decide to choke somebody.
RIFKIN: I think it`s more intimate. You feel everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): This man was a loner.
CUOMO (voice over): Ever think about killing her before?
(on camera): There`s so much that you did in that house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): He had a bucket for her head, bolt cutters to dismember her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): She was straddling this man, and was she dead or alive at this point?
RIFKIN: She was dead.
CUOMO (on camera): Pretty diabolical thought in the moment.
RIFKIN: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): It really is about lust and cruelty being combined.
CUOMO: This was not a normal person. This is some kind of monster.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: OK, I seriously cannot wait for this story. I cannot wait for this entire series. "Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo" premiers this Sunday at
8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific right here on HLN. Don`t miss that. Man, if you could talk to a serial killer who actually makes sense, sick sense.
OK, who -- totally different topic. Who wouldn`t be thrilled to see the smiling little face of your kid welcoming you home from a business trip.
Look at that little cutie, cutie. You just can`t wait until you see what the rest of the message says. It is awesome, hilarious and it`s one more
thing, next.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:00:04] BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight, if a picture is worth a thousand words, well, this one is worth a thousand laughs. A 4-year-old
boy holding a sign at the airport, welcoming his mom home from a business trip, with a sign saying welcome home from prison, mom. This was a joke,
all set up by his dad. Kid didn`t even know. It was all to give his wife and everybody else at the airport something to smile about. Dad better
watch out though. Father`s day is on Sunday. And payback, well, you know what that can be. I won`t say it. There`s a cute little kid on the
screen. But how adorable is that little guy? And this thing went viral.
Next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I escaped from a serial killer who murdered eight women and I`m the only one that got away.
BANFIELD (voice-over): She`s lived to tell the tale.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I was fighting him. And when I was kicking him, I was falling in a little more and then I tried to kick him again.
BANFIELD: And she is taking us back to the place he took her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is hard but I`m going to do it anyways.
BANFIELD: How he abducted her and tortured her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I remember wanting to die. I want today die.
BANFIELD: How she got away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I turned and looked and he was chasing me down the road with a machete.
BANFIELD: And how he was finally caught.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For me, he is like a mad dog that just needs to be put down.
BANFIELD: Now, hear what a jury has just done to him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I heard it I felt like all my insides collapsed.
BANFIELD: A teenage boy is shot in the face and left to die on a kitchen floor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is just a lovable, handsome young man that never did harm to anybody.
BANFIELD: The suspects say it was a game that went sideways.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s alarming.
BANFIELD: But his family insists they planned the whole thing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We all think that it was premeditated. They were taking him there to kill him in the first place.
BANFIELD: And in a sickening twist, videotaped his corpse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Real heinous acts committed by people who have seen to showing no remorse.
BANFIELD: And these kids were his so-called friends.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kind of shock the conscience of anyone that knows the details about the case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
Usually, we learn about serial killers from the investigators who hunt them down or from the victims` loved ones. But it is rare that we hear from the
victims who escaped their ropes.
But tonight one victim is speaking out from the very place that she was abducted and tortured. A woman who missed her bus over 25 years ago in the
southern California desert and was offered a ride from a stranger. That stranger turned out to be Andrew Erdialis, a seriously twisted serial
killer who had already taken the lives of four women and who would eventually confess to killing a total of eight. And that was his plan for
Jennifer Asbenson, who he raped, who he strangled in the desert, but somehow Jennifer managed to escape. And somehow years later Jennifer
managed to go back so she could tell us exactly how it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER ASBENSON, VICTIM: I told him to kill me. So he got his gun and he shoved it in any mouth and he pushed it. I didn`t know a lot about guns
then. But he -- it made a noise. And all I did was squinted my eyes and I imagined the back of my head coming off. And I reaffirmed myself that that
would be OK because it would be really fast. But he didn`t do it. He just toyed with me. And then he opened the trunk and he threw me in the trunk.
And then the worst part was he kept giving me hope.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Miraculously, Jennifer Asbenson was able to unlock that trunk. And somehow run away from her captor. And 25 years later she has just come
face to face with that monster again. But this time she had the upper hand because his hands were bound behind his back. And he was sitting across
from her in court, now a convicted murder. And Jennifer got the chance to testify against him. So that she and his eight other victims could get
justice after more than two decades.
And tonight a jury has recommended his punishment. And it turns out it`s the same fate that he gave those eight women, death.
Joining me now, Eric Scarbrough and Matt Murphy, they are both Orange County senior deputy district attorneys and they prosecuted Andrew
Erdialis. And defense attorney Rachel Kugel is with me as well.
Matt and Eric, I want to begin with you. How did they ultimately catch up with him?
[19:05:00] ERIC SCARBROUGH, SENIOR DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY`S OFFICE: It was a little bit of luck with some
excellent police work. It started with a car stop where they located a gun. And then through some ballistics matches they were able to tie him to
a few of the murders that occurred in Illinois. From there, when they made their arrest, it was a little bit of partially his confessions and then
some other forensic work that tied him to the five murders.
BANFIELD: So ultimately, there`s a gun that he has caught with, the forensics and the ballistics match. But here`s Jennifer Asbenson with this
remarkable tale. She made it out of the trunk, which is something that is near impossible when a car is pre-2002. I mean, there were rules put in
place that trunk have to have latches inside. Before then they didn`t. And somehow she managed to get out of that trunk and run for her life.
What happened next? How did she get rescued?
SCARBROUGH: There were some good Samaritans out on the road. She was fortunate enough to be able to stop them. She got into their car and then
they took her to a local gas station where they called 911, and actually the police responded. And then the Samaritans took an extra step and
called her mom and her mom came out too.
BANFIELD: And Matt, jump in here if you will, as well. This murderer is a marine. I won`t call him a former marine. I don`t usually say that. But
I`m saying that in difference to the real marines out there.
MATT MURPHY, SENIOR DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY`S OFFICE: Would call him an ex-marine, I think.
BANFIELD: I think we should call him an ex-marine. I think you are right about that. And is there truth to the story that it was two other marines
who saw her running down the road and rescued her as he was chasing her with a machete?
MURPHY: That`s always been our understanding which is sort of the irony about this that`s coming full circle. And the thing about Jennifer
Asbenson, in addition to saving her own life, which of course is great, she got to speak for all these other women that we never got to hear from.
Because (INAUDIBLE) left a trail of destruction in a lot of lives. And she really added a lot. She is a hero, as far as we are concerned.
BANFIELD: You know, my colleague, Chris Cuomo, is digging into the minds of serial killers. He is doing this remarkable story on Joel Ripken coming
up on Sunday. And here we have Jennifer Asbenson telling us about the mind of a serial killer as well.
I want to play this piece of tape that she herself recorded because she wants other people to know what it is like because so few people actually
escape these monsters. So she went back to the scene of the desert where he took her and where he tied her up. And where he raped and assaulted
her. She starts to describe what actually happened during the assault. Here she is, Jennifer Asbenson in her own words.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASBENSON: And he grabbed my underwear and he shoved them in my mouth and he kept shoving them in my mouth until they went into my throat and then I
started gagging on them. And I felt like I was drowning. Still my hands are tied behind my back. I have no way to defend myself. I`m wiggling my
legs. He`s sitting on them. He`s gagging me with my own underwear. And then he lodges them into my throat. Then he ties the bra around my mouth
like this to hold them in my throat. I thought I was going to die right then from gagging on my own vomit.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It`s incredible that she has able to do this. But it`s also important to know just how violent the crime was because the jury has
recommended the worst punishment, death. And here she is describing how bad it got.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASBENSON: And I just laid there with my arms still twined behind my back as he sucked on my neck and I felt his slobber just running down between my
breasts. And I just thought hurry up, hurry up and kill me. And then he sat up. And when he sat up, he opened his mouth for just a second and I
saw blood and skin in his teeth and blood coming down his mouth. And I really didn`t care at the moment, but it did make me aware that he had just
tried to bite a chunk out of my neck, that that was not slobber, that that was blood and I looked down and I had blood running down my sweatshirt.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:10:01] BANFIELD: Eric Scarbrough, it`s said the death penalty is reserved for the worst of the worst. And I think it`s fair to say with
Jennifer`s description of what she went through in that desert, it doesn`t get any worse than this.
What I am fascinated by is that he was sentenced to death in Illinois. And then the death penalty was abolished in Illinois. And off he went,
extradited to your state and your state took on what could be a 10, 20-year $10 million death penalty. Often, it`s costly to kill in this country.
Why did you do it, instead of leaving him in Illinois to rot for life?
SCARBROUGH: I think it`s just like you described. Each one of the victims in California experienced something like Jennifer did. And the horrors
that she went through, and what we saw with the forensics of each one of our victims we know they had something similar. If there`s an appropriate
punishment that can be served, this is it. This case cries out for the death penalty.
BANFIELD: And hopefully living on death row is a lot less comfortable for this monster than living among the rest of the general population.
The pictures you are seeing now, "Inside Edition" went back into the demonstration with Jennifer Asbenson. And I want to play for you something
she herself recorded. This is a trunk escape. And the reason she is doing this is she wants people to know out there, there is hope. If you find
yourself in one of these trunks, you know, prior to 2002 when there aren`t these trunk releases, she wants you to know that she did what she thought
was impossible and she wants you to know how she did it. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ASBENSON: What you want to do, feel around the trunk for anything. If you can find anything in the trunk that can help you. We are going to go for
this. And you can feel. And you know you want to go for the center. It`s that easy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: It can be done. As I mentioned, gentlemen, you know, the law has changed in all vehicles, you know, that are produced after 2002, have
trunk releases. You can get out. There is that glowing option right there in the trunk.
Can I ask you both, and either one of you can answer, because I know you both were very steeped in this case. Erdialis admitted to these crimes.
He confessed. Did he show any remorse at all?
MURPHY: No, no. Remember, he did this nine times. This is something that he enjoyed doing. It was basically his hobby. He kept a murder kit in a
storage locker in a desert. Some people keep golf clubs or a surf board when they go on vacation, he kept a 45 caliber, semiautomatic handgun,
knives, binding material. And he would go out hunting for women. So he did it again and again and again.
We had excellent police officers in this case. The detectives in Riverside, the ones from Chicago. (INAUDIBLE) from the sheriff`s
department. Their interviews were outstanding. And they all asked him how did this make you feel? And time and time again after describing these
horrific murders, he said, yes, just kind of faded away, didn`t really bother me. And you know, the evidence shows he couldn`t wait to do it
again.
So no, Andrew Erdialis is a misogynistic, sadistic monster. And he deserves exactly what the jury recommended yesterday.
BANFIELD: Well, he will get his constitutional right to appeal, but that will be difficult given the amazing evidence against him. And we have
Jennifer Asbenson to thank for that. And we have the good work of you, Matt and Eric as well. So thank you for your work. And I hope you can get
that picture out of your mind at some point when you lay your head down to sleep at night. Thank you to both of you. And thank you for being on here
tonight as well.
MURPHY: Thank you.
SCARBROUGH: Thank you.
BANFIELD: And my thanks to Jennifer as well for being so incredibly brave.
I`m going to ask Rachel Kugel to stay on. I have got a couple of segments I need her to work through with me.
There is certainly some outrage tonight after a Las Vegas teenager, 17 years old, gets a gun to the face. Two teenagers are in custody, and they
say, it was all a game of Russian roulette that just kind of went sideways. But if that`s the case, why did they allegedly leave him bleeding out on
the kitchen floor? And then steal his wallet and a car. Was this really a tragic accident, or was this a sick and twisted murder? That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:40] BANFIELD: The boys who were with him that night told the police that it was a game gone wrong.
Three teenage boys, maybe even a few more, we don`t know, in an abandoned house playing a version of Russian roulette. But their version of the game
ended with this kid, 17 years old, a boy named Matthew Minkler, shot in the face. But his so-called friends, Jaden and Cody did not call 911, did not
try to get an ambulance. Instead reportedly honoring his death with a series of sickening and escalating insults.
The first police say they took off, left Matthew to bleed out on the kitchen floor before actually coming back to clean up. But apparently they
didn`t do such a great job because police say they instead stuffed their friend`s body in a closet before painting it with a jaw dropping message,
"f Matt." That was spray painted on the door of the closet.
According to local reports, Matt`s friend Jaden, the one who allegedly pulled the trigger during this game, actually snap chatted Matt`s body
before realizing that he had some blood on his shoes. So he reportedly tried unsuccessfully to clean the blood off those shoes and then decided to
take $300 from Matt wallet and use it to buy some new shoes and a night of drugs.
But the boys apparently also need a car. So police say they just went ahead and stole one, a Mercedes, which they crashed when the cops began to
actually give chase. And that is when the boys supposedly began to spill the beans about their night. Jaden saying the shooting was an accident.
But not everybody is buying that story. And Matt, his family, the dead kid, the dead kid`s family, is saying this whole thing was planned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE MINKLER, VICTIM`S FATHER: I don`t believe any of that Russian roulette stuff. None of my family does. I think, or we all think that it
was pre-meditated. They were taking him there to kill him in the first place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joining me now is Chris Kudialis, he is a reporter for the Las Vegas` "Sun." Also on the phone retired police lieutenant Randy Sutton and
defense attorney Rachel Kugel is still with me as well.
All right, Chris, wow, I mean, this is your backyard. This is Las Vegas. This home doesn`t look like an abandoned home, but there were so many
mortgage backed security houses that went under that were abandoned. I`m wondering if it was one of those homes, but that`s allegedly where all this
happened.
KUDIALIS: Yes, Ashleigh, right here in the nearby suburb of Henderson, Nevada, neighboring Las Vegas, an abandoned home like you mentioned. And
actually a very nice home, 3,700 square feet as a matter of fact, two-story home, not exactly the place that you would expect something like this to
occur. Obviously, neighbors very distraught as well hearing that something like this could occur in a nice suburban area of metropolitan Las Vegas.
BANFIELD: It`s so unbelievable, this story. But can you help me to understand what these kids allegedly told the police? Or at least what I
think Cody told the police about his friend, Jaden. I mean, it seems Cody is really pushing the finger towards the dark-haired kid. So the light-
haired kid is blaming the dark-haired kid, if I`m not mistaken here, saying it was Russian roulette, yes, but none of us -- we weren`t allowed to touch
the gun. That was what Jaden was doing. He was holding the gun the whole time. Do I have it right?
KUDIALIS: That`s absolutely right, Ashleigh. Cody, as soon as the two teens were arrested after police tracked them down, then tried to escape
after crashing the stolen car. Reports that potentially more teenagers in that car. But police haven`t made or announced any further arrests. But
Cody immediately upon being interrogated told police that Jaden held the gun, traditional Russian roulette has the person who the gun is pointed at
spinning the barrel. Instead, according to Cody and police, it was Jaden that spun the barrel and shot the victim.
BANFIELD: Yes. Then Matthew Minkler, his parents are saying we don`t believe any of this. We just think that these kids planned this, they
pretended to be our son`s friend, that our son trusted those kids. And now this beautiful, smiling, blond teenager is dead.
Is it a gunshot to the chin? Do you know if it`s to the bottom of the chin, meaning they would be holding the gun vertical up through the chin,
or if it was sort of straight on? Do you have any idea of the position? Because those forensics will matter.
KUDIALIS: According to the family it was a gunshot wound to his chin. All we have from the Clark County coroner`s office is that -- police first of
all said that it was one gunshot wound and the coroner`s office in Clark County has ruled it a homicide.
[19:25:01] BANFIELD: So here`s -- here is Scott Williams. And he is the PIO for the city of Henderson, sort of the official, you know, spokesperson
about this. And he talks about how if it`s true that these kids had perpetrated this horrible crime, why on earth would they go out and steal a
Mercedes and drive recklessly, almost falling into the hands of the police? Here`s how he described it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT WILLIAMS, CITY OF HENDERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: It all started with basically a failing to yield situation, typical reckless driver, officers
attempted to stop the vehicle and they fled. Multiple teenagers got out of the car and fled. The help of the Las Vegas police department, k-9 units,
we able to apprehended all those that fled. We followed up on those tips which led them to the 2700 block of (INAUDIBLE). When they made entry
inside, they found a deceased juvenile, apparent gunshot wounds.
We have a 16-year-old and a 17-year-old that were arrested for the murder and also for accessory to murder. You don`t typically have juveniles
harming other juveniles in this kind of a fashion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Juveniles, 16 and 17. But here`s what`s weird, Chris, there`s this, you know, fact floating out there that more kids might have been in
that Mercedes, and that more kids might have been in that home, which means more witnesses to what really happened. Have we been able to chase down if
there were other kids present for that shooting?
KUDIALIS: Not at this point, according to police. But they have put -- made this message very visible. They have issued phone numbers, email
addresses for witnesses to come forward and reach out to police. Because, you know, I guess anytime we see this kind of push from police to get more
information, usually a sign that they believe more people might be involved or there`s a significant information missing that they don`t yet have.
BANFIELD: So here`s Scott Williams again describing just sort of how this is hit, the authorities who are trying to process all the different aspects
and timeline of this crime. Have a listen to the way Scott Williams of the city of Henderson put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: Just seems very macabre and morbid. And it is just something you don`t typically see with juveniles. It`s just one of those cases that kind
of shock the conscience of anyone that knows about the details of the case. It`s true a heinous act committed by people that seems to showing no
remorse or callous for this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So Randy Sutton, you know, you used to work Las Vegas. I don`t know that this is unique to Las Vegas, this kind of a crime can happen
anywhere. But the notion, and we don`t have the picture of this, but I`m assuming at some point it will become evidence, the notion that someone
took spray paint after stuffing matt`s body into that downstairs closet and wrote "f Matt" on the door. As a detective, as a retired police
lieutenant, is that a message they were trying to make it look like someone else, someone more criminal did this, or is this kids having fun with what
they know full well they have done?
SUTTON (on the phone): Oh, no. Let`s not make any -- have any doubt about this. This was not Russian roulette. This was a straight up murder. If
you look at the arrest report that was done and the affidavit that was done, there was -- the gun was recovered from the stolen vehicle. And
there was a very telling sentence in there. And that was that there was one expended shell in the gun. That means that this wasn`t Russian
roulette where you put one bullet in and you spin the barrel. That means that this gun was fully loaded. So this whole Russian roulette nonsense is
just garbage. This was a straight up execution murder. That`s all this was.
BANFIELD: Well, there`s a couple other things that are pretty telling as well. And I`m going to squeeze in a quick break. But when we come back
I`m going to get you all to weigh in on what these kids were reportedly snap chatting. Because the local reports have some pretty awful things
that were self-made videos, the police say on the phones of the suspect, or at least one of the suspects, and the local reports say they were having a
little fun. While, this poor kid, Matthew Minkler was bleeding out. I will explain that in a moment. And also talk about the significance of it.
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the so-called friends accused of leaving 17-year-old Matthew Minkler bleeding out on the kitchen floor of an
old abandoned house after what they said was a deadly version of Russian roulette, an accident. Only police called their murderous version no game.
They say the young killer took video of the crime scene. And then, local reports say it was Snapchatted. Jaiden Caruso snap chatting with Kody
Harlan the body of Matt Minkler.
[19:35:04] My panel is still with me. Chris, the local reports say that not only was this bleeding body being Snapchatted, but things were being
said by these suspects, by these now defendants. What was being said?
KUDIALIS(via Skype): Well, according to police in the video, Jaiden, after allegedly shooting Matthew dead, said that he caught a body, bragging to
friends. Basically, that is a slang term for saying that he shot somebody dead. So, if you will, according to police, admitting right there on
Snapchat that he did, in fact, shoot somebody dead. And also, like you said, Ashleigh, having video of Matthew`s bleeding body allegedly in the
background.
BANFIELD: And then, Chris, is it true that there`s a video that exists, or at least the police say there`s a video that exists that shows Jaiden, and
you can hear a voice off camera saying what do we do with the body? Jaiden doesn`t respond but goes over to the sink and washes his hands and then can
be seen looking as though he might be washing blood off his shoe. Is that rumor, is that report, is that fact, is that in any police evidence lists?
Where does that come from?
KUDIALIS: Yes, Ashleigh, that also came from the arrest report on this crime. So, as far as police are concerned, there were three different
videos of the two that we just spoke about and also one before the alleged killing that shows Jaiden with the revolver, showing it off, basically, to
folks on Snapchat.
BANFIELD: Man, that is not good. Here`s Scott Williams again with the City of Henderson talking about the fact that Jaiden and Kody may not be
the only kids that are -- that are connected to what happened in that house. That there may, in fact, be more, and that they better come
forward. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT WILLIAMS, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, HENDERSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: And the concerning things about this case is there were witnesses to this
homicide, yet they haven`t come forward or they haven`t told their parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Rachel Kugel, if you are one of these 16 or 17-year-old kids allegedly to have been part of this, or at least to have been present for
it, to have just seen it, and you are hiding out, and not saying a word to the police, are you breaking the law by doing that?
KUGEL: Yes. So, I don`t think there`s any obligation legally to report something that you`ve seen, a crime that you`ve seen occur. Certainly,
morally, certainly ethically, but not necessarily legally. They can`t be charged with obstruction merely for failing to report. Now, that said, I
do think that when cases like this happen, there`s often sort of a race to talk. And I do think there`s something to be said. I understand that
these kids -- if they didn`t do anything wrong, but they were just present, are probably freaking out. But I understand also that in these cases
there`s a race to talk and sometimes it`s important to step up and be the one to tell your own story. Otherwise, you may be implicated in ways you
didn`t intend, in ways you didn`t really participate, and it seems like that`s already sort of happening. And that the story as it`s shaping up is
really that Kody seems to be implicating --
BANFIELD: Pointing the finger at Jaiden.
KUGEL: Exactly.
BANFIELD: Well, Jaiden is -- apparently is -- you just heard Chris`s report seen in one of the videos, according to the arrest affidavit --
KUGEL: Exactly.
BANFIELD: -- holding the gun, and then, washing his -- listen, not only just washing his hands and washing blood off his shoes, but then, Randy,
here`s what`s extraordinarily troubling. The allegations are that they took $300 out of the wallet of Matt and they bought new shoes because
presumably Jaiden`s shoes were bloody, and then, spent the rest of it on drugs for the night. So, no matter what the story is about the game, if
there was a game, and if the game went wrong, all those other things, when a jury hears that kind of thing, do they give a hoot about the excuse of a
game?
SUTTON,(via telephone): Well, look, as I said, this -- the whole notion of a game is absurd. This had nothing to do with a game. The gun was loaded
with six bullets. Russian roulette doesn`t have six bullets, so --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: But you don`t think that could have happened after the fact -- listen, there was a criminal pattern after, too. Running out and stealing
a Mercedes, maybe loading up the gun after. Could a defense attorney not make a case of that?
SUTTON: It would be -- I would be a foolish -- it would be a foolish defense. I mean, it`s -- it doesn`t make any sense. The murder weapon is
discovered in the stolen car with the suspects and it`s fully loaded except for one expended shell. No, I`m not buying it. It doesn`t make any sense.
And --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: It`s awfully convenient, I think is the point. It does sound convenient. Look, I have to leave it there. Real quick.
SUTTON: It`s so chilling that it -- that it is absolutely something that the human conscious just really is it`s difficult to describe.
[19:39:58] BANFIELD: I mean, Jaiden Caruso, 16, Kody Harlan, 17, and the dead child, Matthew Minkler, 17 as well. So distressing. Stay tuned to
see if there are other players that join that list of photos. My thanks to Chris Kudialis and Randy Sutton. Rachel, I`m going ask you to stay on
again if you will.
Tonight, the police department at the center of the Rachael DelTondo murder investigation, no longer at the center of it. In fact, no longer involved
at all. The Beaver County is reporting that the acting police chief, whose first day on the job was Monday and is the third chief since this murder,
is going to recuse his officers from the investigation and will ask the Pennsylvania State Police for assistance instead. Rachael DelTondo, a
teacher, gunned down in her mother`s driveway on Mother`s Day. And since her killing, there have been calls for the Aliquippa Police Department to
hand that case over amid all sorts of concerns about the police response and possible conflicts of interest. And I`d need an hour to outline all
the issues. But safe to say now, they`ve decided to step aside.
Tonight, a brutal New York death said to be very similar to the Alfred Hitchcock Classic "Psycho." A man admits he stabbed his doctor wife to
death while she was showering. And his behavior after calling the police, nothing short of bizarre. So, is he getting a pretty good deal out of
this?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:46:17] BANFIELD: They were a New York power couple. He, a financial executive, she, a pediatrician. But Jules Reich and Dr. Robin Goldman,
would not be husband and wife for much longer in this beautiful home because they were getting a divorce. And not only that, Jules stabbed
Robin to death. He stabbed her about 22 times in the chest, in the back, in the stomach, all while Robin was taking her morning shower.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CPT. THOMAS ALTIZIO, SCARSDALE POLICE DEPARTMENT: She was a victim of stab wounds. When Scarsdale officers responded to the scene, she was found in a
lifeless state. Scarsdale paramedics from the Scarsdale Volunteer Ambulance Corps, two separate paramedics checked her and found her to be
DOA.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Police say that Julius was the one who actually made the 911 call, seemingly as cool as a cucumber when the officers got there, got to
that multimillion dollar mansion. That`s where they found him, outside the house, smoking, with blood on his hand. After that, police say he actually
started joking around with them. Asking one of the officers, what they thought about Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, and then, asking another
officer if he needed any help taking those fingerprints. But whether or not Jules is taking his wife`s stabbing seriously, he`s not going to be
paying a serious price. He`s not paying the max anyway. He`s getting a deal, pleading guilty to first-degree manslaughter rather than second-
degree murder. Which means he`s only looking at up to 25 years behind bars rather than the lifetime sentence that he could have been dealt for an
attack so brutal that it is being often compared to the main scene from the murder movie "Psycho," Alfred Hitchcock`s Classic from Universal Pictures.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: There`s a reason we played that because this is the story that`s all around the community, that this was like a scene out of "Psycho." And
I`m wondering if that`s part of the reason you plead to a deal because nobody can get that out of their mind when they think about that poor
doctor having her shower and dying in that way.
KUGEL: Yes. I mean, I think there`s a couple of things here. You know, the defense, he`s been through a series of attorneys. They`ve tried sort
of complicated and creative, let`s say, to say the least, legal tactics, the most recent of which was that it was automated behavior, that he was
not in control of his own faculties when he did this. So, they`ve tried different tactics --
BANFIELD: Is automated behavior some other language for bat-shit crazy?
KUGEL: Yes, essentially. And I think --
BANFIELD: That to me could be an insanity defense, but -- and then, quite frankly, in this respect, it sounds to me like he wasn`t really too aware
that anything was so wrong. Other than to say he thought that I think some homicide might have happened in there.
KUGEL: Yes, actually, less even than whether it was right and wrong in this case. He`s actually saying it was involuntary which is even -- which
is even more difficult, a step to make than just -- you know, they were -- they were trying to get him out of it completely, not just sent to some
kind of institution. But I think we need to remember here a couple of things. One is, you know, you take a deal because both sides have
something to lose. And --
[19:50:03] BANFIELD: Sure. They`ve got kids, too.
KUGEL: Yes, exactly.
BANFIELD: Apparently, the kids agreed to this. Did we see any of those pictures of this home, by the way? I mean, this is a home in the millions.
KUGEL: Yes, it`s beautiful.
BANFIELD: Scarsdale, New York, one of the most beautiful places. And you know, I think before -- I think the last sale they had some photos of the
backyard, the beautiful pool, there`s apparently a bathhouse, five bedroom, four bathroom, with pretty pictures inside. I mean, half the time I wonder
if people like that have enough money to get the kinds of lawyers that get those kinds of deals.
KUGEL: Yes, I mean, he`s been through a few lawyers and that suggests to me one that --
BANFIELD: Yes. Look at this place. Hard to believe.
KUGEL: Yes, and you know what, and that`s I think what`s captured everyone`s attention, is that from the outside, it`s a perfect couple,
successful, it`s a beautiful home, and yet, this is the result.
BANFIELD: And this is the result.
KUGEL: The one I could say is he is in his 60s. So, even at 25 years` sentence --
BANFIELD: It`s kind of like a life. You`re right. OK, hold that thought.
In HLN`s original series, "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO," Chris takes viewers inside the country`s most dangerous minds. And this Sunday, he`s
going to delve into the psyche of one of the America`s most notorious serial killers, Joel Rifkin. And he`s asking some pretty tough questions
about Joel`s sorted sex life and why he murdered 17 women.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, HLN HOST: Did you get a rush from the killing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you do it? What do you have to say? What do you have to say, Joel?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) 17 victims.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joel Rifkin is a psychopath.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted us to know how (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was terrifying.
JOEL RIFKIN, AMERICAN SERIAL KILLER: In a very quick second, everything changed.
CUOMO: You would just decide to choke somebody.
RIFKIN: I think it`s quite intimate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You feel everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This man was a loner.
CUOMO: Ever think about killing her before? There`s so much that you did in that house.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He had a bucket for her head, bolt cutters to dismember her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was straddling him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And was she dead or alive at this point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was dead.
CUOMO: Pretty diabolical thought in a moment?
RIFKIN: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It really is about lust and cruelty being combined.
CUOMO: This is not a normal person. This is some kind of monster.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: OK. I seriously cannot wait for this story. I cannot wait for this entire series. "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO" premieres this Sunday
at 8:00 P.M., Eastern and Pacific right here on HLN. Don`t miss that. Man, if you get to talk to a serial killer who actually makes sense, sick
sense.
OK, who -- totally different topic, who wouldn`t be thrilled to see the smiling little face of your kid welcoming you home from a business trip?
Look at that little cutie, cutie. Wait until you see what the rest of the message says. It is awesome, hilarious and it`s "ONE MORE THING," next.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: There are nearly 430,000 children in America`s foster care system. And this week, CNN Hero was one of them. And remember he`s
carrying his belongings around in a trash bag. Nearly 30 years later, he was shocked when four kids that he and his husband were fostering arrived
with their own trash bags and that shock sparked a mission to provide kids in foster care with a tangible sign of love. Meet Rob Scheer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROB SCHEER, CNN HERO: Many children in foster care are put in a situation where they do feel invisible, they do feel that they do not count, that
they have no voice.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) cozy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, (INAUDIBLE)
SCHEER: It`s up to us to make sure that we`re there to help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so cute. It`s a little angel teddy bear.
SCHEER: And we need to make them feel wanted by all of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: To see exactly how Rob is doing, go to cnnheroes.com for the full story, and while you`re there, nominate someone you think could be a
CNN Hero.
And I`ve got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. Imagine coming home from a business trip to this warm welcome. Your precious little 4-year-old
beaming ear to ear, welcome you home with a sign "Welcome home from prison, mom." This was a joke set up by his dad. Kid didn`t even really know what
he had there. This is all to give his wife and everybody else at the airport something to smile about, but dad, look out, Father`s Day is on
Sunday and payback can be rough. Man, is that cute?
Thanks for watching, everyone. We`ll see you back here Monday night, 6:00 Eastern Time. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.
END
