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NEW DAY SATURDAY
Giuliani: "These Things Get Cleaned Up" With Pardons; Giuliani On Joe Biden: Meant To Call Him "Dumb"; U.S. Government: 2,000 Kids Separated From Parents At Border; Trump Falsely Blames Democrats For Separating Families; President Trump Posts Pictures of Smiles at G7 Summit, Slams Fake News; Trump Hits China with Tariffs on $50 Billion Worth of Products; DHS: At Least 2,000 Children Separated from Parents at Border; Jeff Sessions Cites Bible to Defend Zero Tolerance Policy; North Korean Defector Recalls School Trip to Public Execution. Aired 6-7a ET
Aired June 16, 2018 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Trump campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, is headed to jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's some 18 counts here in Virginia, seven in D.C., I mean, they're piling up.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I feel a little badly about it. It went back 12 years to get things that he did 12 years ago.
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: He's not going to pardon anybody in this investigation. He is not obviously going to give much his right to pardon. It's a miscarriage of justice presented to him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two adults, four children just finished crossing the Rio Grande are in custody of border control.
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change their law.
SENATOR LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: If you don't like families being separated, you can tell DHS to stop doing it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's disgusting that people are trying to use the bible in the way they used the bible to justify slavery.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell.
CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: So glad to have you here. SAVIDGE: I was going to say the same.
PAUL: Early morning wake-up call. We like to be your wake-up call.
SAVIDGE: After a whirlwind week for President Trump, he's waking up at the White House. His public schedule completely clear.
PAUL: His former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, is waking up in jail this morning. You see him arriving there at the jail last night. This is exclusive video, and it was after his bail was revoked, of course. Manafort may stay until his trial on foreign lobbying charges which starts in September.
SAVIDGE: Then there's this, CNN is learning another former Trump associate, longtime lawyer, Michael Cohen, may try to avoid jail time by cooperating with federal authorities.
PAUL: As for the Trump team's legal strategy in the Russia probe, sources say it's going to be built around the inspector general's report on the Clinton e-mail investigation. If that doesn't work, one of the president's attorneys, Rudy Giuliani, is suggesting pardons could be in the pipeline, but only if the president thinks his former staffers are prosecuted unfairly.
SAVIDGE: For now, Giuliani says pardons can wait while momentum builds against the Mueller investigation.
PAUL: Live from Washington with us now, CNN White House reporter, Sarah Westwood. Sarah, what are you hearing from there this morning? Good morning to you.
SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN REPORTER: Good morning. President Trump coming home from that busy trip abroad to renewed scrutiny on the Russia investigation. Paul Manafort, President Trump's former campaign chair, sent to jail, for allegedly violating the terms of his bail.
And President Trump this week falsely used the results of a Department of Justice inspector general report about the Clinton e-mail investigation to attack the foundations of Special Counsel Robert Mueller's probe.
Sources telling CNN that the legal team including Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani plan to use the results of that probe to continue undermining Mueller's credibility. Just hours after Giuliani told the "New York Daily News" that the Mueller investigation may be need to be, quote, "cleaned up with pardons."
Giuliani told our own Chris Cuomo that he's advised the president to hold off on pardoning anyone caught in the Russia investigation until it's over. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: Let me make it clear.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Please. GIULIANI: He's not going to pardon anybody in this investigation. But he is not obviously going to give up his right to pardon if a miscarriage of justice is presented to him --
CUOMO: Doesn't that wind up meaning --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WESTWOOD: President Trump has described Manafort's jailing as, quote, "very unfair," and continued to attack Mueller's probe which has produced more than a dozen charges and guilty pleas as a witch hunt. But as we heard Giuliani is reserving Trump's right to undo the results of Mueller's investigations with a set of pardons once it's over -- Christi.
PAUL: All righty. Sarah Westwood, we appreciate it. Thank you. So, the question is, should Paul Manafort or others be counting on a presidential pardon? Joey Jackson, CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney with us right now.
Joey, let's listen to Rudy Giuliani here. Let's listen again to how he talks about why he says pardons would not be unheard of, say, in a case like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GIULIANI: My advice to the president of the United States as his lawyer is no pardons. It would completely change the momentum that we have now because it's very strong right now. You can see the polls moving in the president's favor and against Mueller.
CUOMO: Then why just suggest it?
GIULIANI: I didn't suggest it. I said he shouldn't pardon anybody. The president said to me he shouldn't pardon anybody. I said after the investigation is over, it has to be considered a governmental matter, not by me. What the history has been is these things get cleaned up. Ford did it. Reagan did it. Carter did it. Clinton did it, and Bush did it in political investigations.
[06:05:08] CUOMO: So, you're saying after the probe is over, it may be cleaned up with any pardons?
GIULIANI: If people were unfairly prosecuted.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Joey, would you advise the president as Giuliani is saying he would advise him, no pardons?
JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning, Christ. Good morning, Martin. You know, that's not a signal to all those who might be out there and who may say something against the president's interests, I don't know what is.
I mean, clearly, Giuliani, not the president here, a surrogate of the president, but sending out messages saying stay the course, we've got your back and the foundation for America saying if he does have your back, other presidents have historically had your backs, too.
And so, I think not only this, Christi, but if you match this up with what the president has done as it relates to pardoning, a gentleman named Scooter Libby, lying, obstruction of justice. Someone else, Dennis D'Souza, regarding illegal campaign contributions, I think certainly the president is sending all the messages out there that you know what, just bear with me, let the process play itself out, and we'll do what we need to do.
And in terms of whether the president does what the president wants to do. He's advising this is a witch hunt. He said it's unfair, every other day it's about crooked Hillary and what the Democrats are doing. Divert, deflect, distract, and so therefore, expect the unexpected as it relates to this president.
SAVIDGE: Joey, Giuliani suggested, of course, when the investigation is complete that there could be pardons. What is the time frame? Is there a time frame? Could the president pardon at any time?
JACKSON: You know, Martin, the president really could because remember that the president has the ability to issue a preemptive pardon. Meaning that the president, right, if you look back, and since Giuliani started with the history, let me add on and discuss that history.
If you remember what Ford did as it related to pardoning Nixon for any crimes that he may have committed as president. So, therefore, preempting any prosecution of him, this president, Martin, can do likewise and make -- give a preemptive prosecution for anything that the people may have done or are rising out of the Mueller investigation.
So, it's a very broad power that the president could use. Let's all keep in mind in having this discussion that it's as much a political discussion as it is a legal one because you cannot indict the sitting president. That's the guidance of the Justice Department.
That's the guidance that Mueller said he will follow which would mean he would need to be impeached. You need a majority in the House, which is currently Republican, we'll see what the midterms bring, 2018. Then you need two-thirds, 66 senators.
And if you remember, some more history very briefly, Clinton, 45 United States senators, 45 Democrats, 45 saying no to impeachment, and so not one Democrat broke ranks. I don't think there will be Republicans that break ranks either if you look at what's been going on politically in the country.
PAUL: Real, quickly, you know, the new strategy of the Trump team hinges on the inspector general's report. They say it's a report showed common with that lying, the president was justified in firing him. Your thoughts on that.
JACKSON: You know, Christi, the inspector general's report is very broad. I think that, you know, you could cherry pick and cite chapter and verse how clearly there was nothing political that was done here and the FBI, while they may have had shortcomings and Comey may have some shortcomings, everything, you know, when and according to plan, it helped Trump.
You know, and you could pick if you're Trump's people how he has no collusion. What does it have to do with collusion? So, people will cherry pick what they want to pick. At the end of the day, I think that, you know, the president will be guided by his own judgment.
He will say whatever he wants to say he has, and he will pardon whoever he wants to pardon. The real question, I know we have to go, is whether they will stay the course. Manafort is in jail now. He's not similarly situated or in his palatial estate.
So, he my thinking should I really wait months or talk now? Same thing with Cohen who the president's distancing himself from. He might be saying, you know what, it's about time that I have something to say. So, we'll see.
PAUL: Yes. That is the question. How influential it is to wait. They may be thinking. Joey Jackson, appreciate is so much as always. Sir, thank you.
JACKSON: Thank you, Christi. Thanks, Martin.
PAUL: So, you know, Rudy Giuliani also weighed in on the president's 2020 re-election prospects last night and made some harsh comments about former Vice President Joe Biden.
SAVIDGE: He called him a moron and a mentally deficient idiot, and he claimed that Biden had been at the bottom of his law school class at Syracuse University. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Let's start with something that has nothing to do with anything, but you made it relevant today. Why would you call Joe Biden what you called him today?
[06:10:03] GIULIANI: That he's dumb? No.
CUOMO: That would have been a compliment. That would have been like an invitation to the prom. You called him a mentally deficient idiot.
GIULIANI: I don't mean that. I meant he's dumb. I think Joe is last in his law school class. Joe --
CUOMO: He wasn't last, but he was low.
GIULIANI: Actually, he was second to last and the guy died.
CUOMO: We had it as a different number, but he didn't do well, I'll give you that.
GIULIANI: He had a plagiarism problem in law school, as senator, which I think indicates something even about character. Constantly making faux pass.
CUOMO: But why talk about Joe Biden?
GIULIANI: Well, because I was asked would he be a formidable candidate. I said, no, I think he's somebody the president would like to run against. He never did well as a national candidate. The president did fabulously as a first-time national candidate.
CUOMO: You really think Joe Biden is stupid?
GIULIANI: No --
CUOMO: You said that --
GIULIANI: I think it explains the plagiarism. I think the plagiarism is very serious. I don't think he'll ever get beyond that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSIK: We should say, Meghan McCain, the daughter of Arizona Senator John McCain came to Joe Biden's defense tweeting, quote, "I am disgusted by Giuliani's abhorrent and idiotic comments about Joe Biden. Joe Biden is one of the great political leaders of all time, one of the truly decent men left in politics and somebody my family has looked to for strength during one of the most difficult times of our lives."
PAUL: We are getting a better idea of how many children have been separated from their families at the U.S. border with Mexico. We have some surprising numbers for you, and good context to this story just ahead.
SAVIDGE: Plus, a tit-for-tat trade war brewing after China retaliates on planned U.S. tariffs on Chinese goods. They're targeting farm products, cars, whiskey, plus a whole lot more. What it all means ahead.
PAUL: And an absolute offensive explosion at the World Cup. Coy Wire?
COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: In addition to your coffee this morning, some good old fashion, awesome from the sports world. Six goals scored in perhaps the most thrilling group stage match in World Cup history, three by one man masterfully making his case for being the greatest of all time. That's coming up on NEW DAY.
PAUL: Well, this morning, we're getting a better idea of the scope of family separations that are happening at the U.S. border with Mexico right now. The Homeland Security Department says at least 2,000 immigrant children have been separated from their parents now.
SAVIDGE: That figure we should point out is for the period in April and May when the U.S. government started enforcing a zero-tolerance policy for adults crossing the border illegally. Now part of that policy includes the controversial practice.
PAUL: Those are the figures but look at the pictures there. Not talking about figures, we're talking about children and families. What's happening to these parents and kids once they arrive really?
SAVIDGE: And what is driving them to make that very long and dangerous journey? Knowing that their families could be split up. CNN's Ed Lavandera is in South Texas for us with the story.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's hard to see people moving through the thick South Texas vegetation. The Rio Grande rolls by just beyond the tree line. Then just like that, they appear out of the brush. A small group of undocumented immigrants walking into a public park.
(on camera): We just came across this group of undocumented immigrants in the town of Mission, Texas, two adults, four children. Just finished crossing the Rio Grande here a little while ago. Now they're in the custody of border patrol.
(voice-over): This group is actually made up of three different groups. They say they met along the journey from Honduras and decided to enter the United States together. Border patrol agents give them water, and they sit in the shade as they wait for a vehicle to take them to a border patrol station.
There's Jonathan Ariel, 11 years old. He says he left Honduras with his cousins, but they abandoned him along the way. His mother lives in Virginia and told him not to make the journey alone, but now he's here. "I told her I wanted to come," he says, "but she said it's very dangerous."
(on camera): Are you scared?
(voice-over): "A little," he says. It's a brief conversation that leaves you with many more questions about how a young boy can get to this point as an unaccompanied minor he will likely end up for the time being in a children's shelter like this one as federal authorities try to connect the boy with his mother.
The rest of this group is made up of two adult women with their children. Dahlia Sayupa (ph) is 24 years old, and she crossed the border with her little boy.
(on camera): Why did you come?
(voice-over): She says gang members left a note at her home threatening to kill her and that's when she decided to flee.
(on camera): Are you afraid they're going to separate you from your son? (voice-over): Yes, he's my son, and I love him, she says. I have carried him throughout my journey. Dahlia says she did not know that she might be separated from her son once she was taken into custody in the United States. But she says, "I have nothing in Honduras." The families are loaded up and taken away, unsure of what happens next.
LAVANDERA: The question now is what happens to these young children. Jonathan, the 11-year-old you saw in the piece, gave me his mother's cell phone number in Virginia. I was able to speak with her. She told me that immigration authorities have already reached out it her, and that they would talk to her tomorrow to figure out what happens next.
As far as the two adult women and their children, what happens to them is very much up in the air. Even though the Trump administration says that this is a zero-tolerance policy and the plan is to prosecute 100 percent of the people, who cross the border illegally, the fact is that isn't happening yet.
But federal officials will not say how exactly it's determined as to who gets prosecuted and separated from their children and who is released and allowed to move on. They won't explain how the decisions are made.
[06:20:03] So, the fate of those two women that you saw in the story with those children, as far as we know tonight, it's still very much up in the air. Ed Lavandera, CNN, McCowan, Texas.
PAUL: All righty. Well, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and other administration officials have defended the practice as being biblical. But lawmakers in both parties along with religious leaders have criticized the family separations, as you know. Even President Trump suggested that it's cruel, he said he doesn't like it.
But there's been some confusion over what he would do about it at the end of the day. Republican leaders in Congress put their plans for an immigration bill that could address the separations on hold because the president said on live television yesterday that he wouldn't support it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of different bills on immigration probably next week.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of them, the Goodlatte bill, the other is something more moderate. Would you sign either one of them?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I'm looking at both of them. I certainly wouldn't sign the more moderate one. I need a bill that gives the country tremendous border security. I have to have that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got to have the wall?
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We have to have the wall. We don't have the wall, there's no bill.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Now later, a White House official said the president misunderstood the question and issued a statement saying this, "The president fully supports the Goodlatte bill and House leadership bill. In this morning's interview, he was commenting on the discharge petition in the House, not the new package. He would sign either the Goodlatte or the leadership bills."
SAVIDGE: In that same conversation yesterday, the president falsely blamed Democrats for separating families at the border. He's done that multiple times. But who's responsibility is it really?
Joining us now CNN political commentator and political anchor for Spectrum News is, Errol Louis. Errol, good morning to you.
ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good morning.
SAVIDGE: First of all, what do you make of a very confusing day yesterday with the president when it came to the issue of immigration and legislation that's expected next week in the House?
LOUIS: Yes. What was confusing, Martin, is that the bill the president kind of off the cuff said he certainly wouldn't sign the more moderate bill, well, that leadership bill was drafted by the House leadership to his specifications. They didn't do an independent process of coming up with legislation and policies that might make sense.
They tried to give the White House exactly what they wanted. There's funding for the wall. There's an end to what they call chain migration, meaning not favoring the kinds of family-based reunification policies that have existed in the past.
So, they tried to give the president what they wanted. They had a little bit of confusion around that. I think they're back on track now and they now realized that the bill the president said that he would not support is, in fact, his own bill.
SAVIDGE: And then there is this other issue that he continues to put out there. He said this practice was not forced on anyone by Democrats, but that the president is blaming Democrats repeatedly for this policy that many people are looking at, the policy or practice. Listen --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: I hate the children being taken away. The Democrats have to change that law -- that's their law, the Democrats' law. We can change it tonight. We can change it right now.
(END VIDEO CLIP) SAVIDGE: How in any way, Errol, is that accurate?
LOUIS: No, it's simply not true. Look, first of all, it's not dumb pursuant to law. This is a choice about how to enforce the law. The law says you can't just walk into the United States. I think we all knew that. What comes into question is what you will do if people do show up at the border.
Do you prosecute them? Do you separate families? Do you separate children from their families? Do you prosecute each and every case? That's what's at stake here. The president's own attorney general very much I think in the spirit of the administration and probably on the express orders of the president put out a memo recently saying we will prosecute each and every one.
It's eight U.S. seat, 1325-A is no law. It says that it's illegal to try and cross the border. It's illegal to cross the border. You can't do it. So, they decided rather than use discretion that other presidents have used, which is to say, look, if you're asking for asylum, if you've got sickness, a certain category, we'll let you go and handle those separately.
We are not going to simply detain you. Jeff Sessions has said we will detain and prosecute you in each every case, and as part of that, they've decided to make it even tougher by taking people away from their children. That is Trump policy. There's nobody else to blame.
SAVIDGE: And real quick, what do you think the chances are of legislation being passed on immigration next week?
LOUIS: Very slim chance. We're in an election season, Martin. This is not the time to expect something big like this to get done. I think people will take their chances politically through November with the system that we currently have.
SAVIDGE: Yes, Errol Louis, always good to see you. Thanks very much.
LOUIS: Thank you, my friend.
SAVIDGE: Still ahead, religious groups and leaders condemn the Trump administration for using the bible to defend separating immigrant families. Our next guest explains why the Christian community is pushing back.
[06:25:12] PAUL: Also, a potential trade war heating up after China targets the U.S. seafood, farming, car industries, with retaliatory tariffs. What does it mean for your wallet at the end of the day? We have a live report for you from Beijing next.
[06:30:00] CHRISTI PAUL, CO-HOST, NEW DAY SATURDAY: It's the weekend, I hope that's incentive enough to get up and out of bed today, welcome, we're glad to have you here, I'm Christi Paul.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CO-HOST, NEW DAY SATURDAY: And I'm Martin Savidge in for Victor Blackwell, I don't know what that means, but I'm glad to be here into the --
PAUL: Well, yes, it's the weekend, but you're here --
SAVIDGE: Oh --
PAUL: Thank you --
SAVIDGE: Now we go --
SAVIDGE: Moving on, President Trump, a week later now attempting to disprove reports that he didn't get along with world leaders at the G7 Summit. You may remember the very famous photo. He has tweeted pictures of smiles and handshakes saying, "I have a great relationship with Angela Merkel of Germany, but the fake news media only shows the bad photos, implying anger of negotiating an agreement where I am asking for those things that no other American president would ask for."
PAUL: Now, it was a tense start to the week. However, with the president at odds with some of the U.S.' closest allies over his trade policies which might have -- might have just gotten worse.
This week, the president decided to slap tariffs on $50 billion worth of Chinese products, sparking concerns of a trade war that could potentially damage the global economy.
As a result of the president's new trade policy, China has promised to retaliate with their own set of tariffs on American goods. Those tariffs take effect July 6th.
SAVIDGE: Cnn International correspondent Matt Rivers is live in Beijing this morning with reaction, and what are you hearing, Matt?
MATT RIVERS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Christi and Matt, let me start with just reading a little bit of a state-run newspaper's commentary on this issue this morning. They wrote "erratic actions have become the norm for the U.S., China can see step-by-step the Trump administration is rude, unreasonable, selfish and headstrong."
So given that, it's not really a surprise then that China has gone forward and issued tariffs on American imports here to China worth the exact same amount as the U.S. tariffs on the Chinese imports, that's $50 billion in tariffs that China will be issuing starting -- well, $34 billion of which will start on July 6th, just like what's happening in the United States.
What is going to be targeted? What American products are going to be targeted? It's a wide-ranging list, everything from soybeans to American beef, certain cars, smaller airplanes, types of fruits, a wide-ranging list that China is using to really make maximum impact both economically and politically.
So consider soybeans there for a second. It might not seem like a big deal, but it's usually the number one or two export from America to China, somewhere around $15 billion a year.
And of the top-10 soybean-producing states, eight of them voted for Donald Trump in 2016. China knows that and it is targeting these sanctions to have maximum impact in those areas.
And look, I should add that there are a lot of people here in China, American business men and women who would say the relationship between China and the U.S. is broken. The Trump administration is not wrong when they say that China steals intellectual property, that they force technology transfers, that they infringe on copyrights.
Something should be done about that, but what there is disagreement on is that tariffs are the right way to do that because it's not just about these tariffs, $50 billion now, it's what's going to happen in the future and does this trade war get worse.
SAVIDGE: And that is the big fear of many. All right, Matt Rivers, thanks very much.
PAUL: So U.S. Attorney General Jeff Sessions is using scripture to defend the immigration policy. The one that separated thousands of kids from their parents right now. Well, we have an advocate for immigrants next who's explaining why he is wrong to quote the Bible.
[06:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAUL: So the Department of Homeland Security says 2,000 children now have been separated from their families at the Mexican border, this is over the course of the last six weeks.
This practice of splitting up immigrant families trying to enter the country is part of the Trump administration's zero-tolerance policy. A policy Attorney General Jeff Sessions defended this week using the Bible. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF SESSIONS, ATTORNEY GENERAL, UNITED STATES: I would cite you to the Apostle Paul and his clear and wise command in Romans 13 to obey the laws of the government because God has ordained the government for his purposes -- orderly and lawful processes are good in themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL: Advocates for immigrants are speaking out against the policy. Willie Nelson issued a statement saying this, "what's going on at our southern border is outrageous. Christians everywhere should be up in arms.
What happened to bring us your tired and weak and we will make them strong? This is still the promised land." The Catholic Church and other religion leader -- religious leaders, they've also criticized the policy as immoral.
Let's talk to U.S. director of Church Mobilization for World Relief and author of "Welcoming the Stranger", Matthew Soerens. Matthew, thank you for being with us, we appreciate it.
First and foremost, if Attorney General Sessions was going to use the Bible, would that have been the choice, Romans 13, to use? Because there -- that's been used before --
SAVIDGE: Yes --
PAUL: To advocate slavery.
MATTHEW SOERENS, U.S. DIRECTOR OF CHURCH MOBILIZATION FOR WORLD RELIEF: Yes, well, Romans 13 is part of the holy scriptures, and I think it's important. But it's one of so many passages in the Bible that speak to how as Christians we would respond to immigrants in our community.
There're passages that speak to the importance of families that God has established. So I think, you know, I would really encourage the Attorney General, the evangelical immigration table that world relief fireworks has been a part of -- has a scripture challenge, it's called "I was a Stranger" challenge, taken from Matthew chapter 25, that 40 passages in the Bible based on top of immigration.
[06:40:00] And Romans 13 is in there, it's relevant. But I really challenge the Attorney General to take that challenge to read all of what the Bible has to say that speaks to this topic because there's so much in the Bible.
PAUL: But there's --
In fact, Romans 13:10 says "love your neighbor as yourself, love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law."
PAUL: In quoting Romans 13, do you not have to read it in full to get the full context? How does it work --
SOERENS: Yes --
PAUL: To just, you know, pull a snippet?
SOERENS: Yes, you know, even there in -- later in Romans Chapter 13, it says that yes, God has established governments, the law is good, we should respect the law. But then it tells us how governments should behave. It says if you're doing what is right, the government should not be a terror to you.
And I think a terror is actually the word I would use to describe -- if, you know, if I put myself in the shoes of a father from El Salvador who is so afraid of violence, of threats of violence that he would take his children, seek asylum as our U.S. laws allow, and make it to the U.S. border only to have his children taken away from him.
Reportedly, in some cases, children being taken away, saying that, you know, they're going to be given a bath and then not brought back. That to me sounds like terror. And that means that if the government is not functioning in the way that God has established the government to.
And that's why I think you've seen, as you alluded to, you know, from the Catholic Bishops to the National Association of Evangelicals to the Southern Baptists, the National Council of Churches is for our range of Christian leaders, in fact, they can't always agree on what the Bible means.
On this they do agree, and that's why it's really a little bit surreal to have the Attorney General of our country telling us that we've misunderstood the Bible.
PAUL: Because there's a separation of Church and state, and -- but because I think religious leaders got into the conversation that may have been why he brought it up.
Father Simmons tweeted to Jeff Sessions, saying, "Dear Jeff Sessions, are you aware that the argument you made today from Romans 13 was a central argument of the German Christian pro Nazi movement over and against the confessing Church?
I'm not saying you're a Nazi, but you're interpreting the Bible like one." Interpretation is key here, is it not, Matthew? I mean, this is -- this is what is hard to reconcile for people.
SOERENS: Yes, you know, absolutely, it's so important that we read the Bible in context. And again, I would go back to Jesus, I mean, in the Gospels, there's only a few times when we're told that Jesus becomes angry.
But one of them is in Mark Chapter 3 when Jesus heals a man with a withered hand, and the religious and legal authorities of his time were angry with him. And Jesus responds healing this person even though it's the Sabbath which in their narrow and -- Jesus would say, incorrect interpretation of the law was not lawful.
And it says in the text, well, upset Jesus was the hardness of heart, they were so devoid of compassion, focused on that narrow and mistaken interpretation of the law that they couldn't see the human suffering in front of them.
PAUL: It is a topic that's so important because people are very passionate about the faith that they have and how it's interpreted. Matthew Soerens, we appreciate your voice in this, thank you, sir.
SOERENS: Thank you so much for having me.
SAVIDGE: As a child, he was told he was going to see a movie, then forced to watch a public execution. We talk to a North Korean defector about that experience.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At that time, you were so young and sure, so the
police officer dragged us and make us sit down in front row, and then we watched the public execution. And that was the first time that I saw a public execution when I was 11.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PAUL: Well, President Trump says he plans to spend part of his Father's Day on the phone with North Korea. In a lengthy "Fox News" interview, the president said he gave Kim Jong-un a phone number to reach him directly, and he has a way to call Kim Jong-un as well. But he didn't say who he'd be reaching out to this weekend nor did he say why?
SAVIDGE: South Korea says that it is happy that the two are talking. In a statement to Cnn, a high-ranking official there says this, "It is a symbolic event for progress in relations between the two countries that they can discuss pending issues whenever they want."
Critics of President Trump's meeting with Kim Jong-un point to the dictator's history of abusing human rights, especially in the case of Otto Warmbier; an American college student you remember, who died after his parents say he was tortured in a hard labor camp in North Korea.
But Mr. Trump says stopping nuclear weapons is, well, more important right now.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have spoken so passionately about the circumstances that led to Otto Warmbier's death --
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In the same breath, you're defending now Kim Jong-un's human rights record, how can you do that?
TRUMP: You know why? Because I don't want to see a nuclear weapon destroy you and your family --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well --
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SAVIDGE: Although President Trump says that Warmbier's release started the whole conversation, and that the U.S. Summit with North Korea would not have happened without him.
But what about those that are still living under the regime and those who have escaped? Earlier, I had the chance to speak with one man who was able to escape and lived to talk about the conditions he endured as a child. Author Sungju Lee was born in North Korea to a privileged family and
he spent his early years in Pyongyang. But after the death of Kim il- Sung, everything drastically changed for Sungju.
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SAVIDGE: Now, he's recalling the years that he spent on the streets scavenging for food just to survive, before eventually escaping. Sungju Lee joins us now from Washington. He told his story in the book "Every Falling Star".
Thanks very much for joining us, and your story is so well both, heartbreaking and uplifting at the very same time. Let me take you back to the very beginning. And as a child in Pyongyang, you lived a pretty good life then.
[06:50:00] SUNGJU LEE, AUTHOR: Yes, also I was well educated. When I was -- when I was in Pyongyang, I was taught that North Korea is one of the best countries in the world and one of the strongest countries in the world.
But when I was 10 -- 11, when I was 11, my father made a political mistake, and so then my entire family was expelled to a countryside, so at that point, I saw the reality of North Korea.
So I questioned my father, father, are we in North Korea? And then he told me that, yes, this is a reality of North Korea.
SAVIDGE: How did your family explain to you this dramatic life change?
LEE: Well, my father -- my father didn't say that my family was expelled to a different city, he just said that my family will have a holiday in countryside.
SAVIDGE: You thought you were going on vacation?
LEE: Yes, I thought we were going on vacation.
SAVIDGE: And when you got to where you were going, what did you see?
LEE: I saw many beggars, and then the car -- well, train condition wasn't that good. And then the house we got from the government wasn't that good. And also, I went to a new school there outside of Pyongyang in countryside.
The principal -- one day, the principal gathered students on the playground by saying that the entire school will go to a public execution site to watch public executions. So I was really shocked.
And then -- because I thought that as North Korea has produced a new movie called "Public Execution Site", so I asked my friend, and then OK, are we going to the cinema? And she told me that no, we are going to public execution site.
So -- and then we went there and then there were adults. There were many people -- so at that time we were so young and sure, so the police officer dragged us and made us sit down in front row and then we watched the public execution.
That was the first time that I saw a public execution when I was 11.
SAVIDGE: What was it like as a child to watch people being put to death? Especially by your government?
LEE: I mean, it's shocking. Because I couldn't -- I couldn't speak out, I was really shocked. Even I was hungry but I couldn't have dinner that night. And then I went home, I went -- I went home, and then I shared this story with my mother and my mother just cried.
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SAVIDGE: Now there is a positive turn to Sungju's story because he was able to escape and leave the so-called hermit kingdom. That was as a result of action that his father had taken and managed to reunite both of them in South Korea.
The problem is today, he still has not been able to find the whereabouts of his mother.
PAUL: Well, hundreds of children are calling the middle of the desert home this morning. They were torn away from their families as they were trying to cross the border. We get a look at the newest temporary facility that's holding them. That's happening next hour.
SAVIDGE: Plus, much more ahead, up next, Coy Wire has all the action from the World Cup. Good morning Coy, already a lot going on --
COY WIRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you. My goodness, Martin, it is wonderful. The Michael Jordan of soccer and the Pablo Picasso of the pitch, Cristiano Ronaldo has once been named the sexiest man by "People Magazine".
He played some sexy soccer yesterday, that and more coming up on NEW DAY.
[06:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SAVIDGE: Of course, we know this already, but it's day three of the World Cup from Russia and we're looking forward to a David versus Goliath at the match-up to take place later this morning.
PAUL: Nobody else could get us through there, but Coy Wire, nobody!
WIRE: Oh, listen, World Cup hype is real, right? Even though the U.S. didn't qualify, more people bought tickets in the United States than any other nation other than host nation Russia.
And 1.6 million people tuned in right here in the states to watch the opening match, they were the two worst-ranked teams in the tournament. Neighboring nations though in what was perhaps the greatest group stage match in World Cup history. Spain, one of the favorites of the tournament and their stable of thoroughbreds, taking on one man, carrying an entire nation of Portugal on his shoulders, and one of the greatest of all time, Ronaldo.
At 33 years old, this could be his last World Cup, so he's a man on a mission, right? Battling younger defenders, putting him to the test, earning a penalty kick early, he nearly put a hole at the back of the net.
Spain would score, tying it at one just before half time, but Ronaldo's prowess in his power, another rocket shot just past the goal tender there, 2 to 1, Portugal at the half. But Spain would jab back, tying it up again on this goal, the second of Diego Costa's two goals on the day, then going up 3 to 2 on this goal from Nacho.
Look at the bend on that, beautiful. But all of that would set up this moment, the final minutes, Ronaldo, out there like a road dance sculpture of soccer, look at him! Incredible, staring at a wall of defenders, but all he could see was the back of the net.
The focus, the precision, an incredible goal and hat trick, tying the game to 3-3, that's how it would end, Ronaldo against a slew of his own team mates from his professional team in Madrid helping Portugal earn 1 point, a critical point.
Now Ronaldo is the oldest player ever to score a hat-trick at the World Cup and the first ever to score one against Spain. Now, for the match of the day, Iceland, the smallest nation ever to qualify with a population of 330,000, think about this.
Lexington, Kentucky, almost has that many people. Their coach is a part-time dentist, they're taking on arguably the other greatest player of all time, Messi and Argentina. Iceland has this passion though, check this out.
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WIRE: Now, if that doesn't give you chills, I don't know what does, the thunder clap they call it.