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Lawmakers to Tour Immigration Facilities Near Border; Trump to Talk Immigration with House Republicans on Tuesday; Trump and Kim Jong Un Due to Speak Today; Interview with Congressman Luis Gutierrez of Illinois; Rep. Gutierrez to Trump: "Just be a Dad"; Giuliani Says Mueller's Russia Probe Needs to be Investigated; New Study Finds Antarctica is Melting Faster. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired June 17, 2018 - 07:00   ET




[07:00:43] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They should not even be separating families. They should not be dragging people from their homes and kidnapping them.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: The president as he has wanted to do is trying to bring everybody together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're not going to let this under discretion. No! No! No we are not going anywhere!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a growing chorus of frustration and anger and protest.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Home of the free and land of the brave. We should not be using kids as a deterrent process.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're rounding people up. People with families.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's going to be a black stain on the president's first term.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need people of good faith, of different political philosophies to come together and tell the president to stop this, stop it now.


MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Separation anxiety. America take is inward look at its policy on immigration and how it inhumanely treats people who are seeking asylum.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: That and so much more. I'm Christi Paul. We're so grateful to have you.

SAVIDGE: And I'm Martin Savidge, in for Victor Blackwell.

More on our top story in just a moment.

Also this hour.

PAUL: Yes, possibly holding on line one, maybe? Kim Jong-un and President Trump teases a possible call with the North Korean dictator today.

SAVIDGE: And we got more of the stunning new aerial images from Hawaii to share with you, continually flowing lava and it's now covering more than nine square miles of land.

PAUL: Also ahead, how the Antarctica ice is melting at a more rapid rate than we realize and how impact that's going to have on coastal cities.

Your NEW DAY starts right now.


PAUL: Two minutes after 7:00. Thank you for being with us again on a Sunday.

Democrats are responding to President Trump as he blames them for his own administration's policy change.

SAVIDGE: As Trump appears to use the separation of migrant children from their parents as a bargaining chip, Democrats like Senator Ron Wyden say in this case, zero tolerance makes zero sense. In a few hours, more than a half dozen Democratic lawmakers will start touring facilities along the U.S./Mexico border. They'll make stops across the state of Texas as protests continue all over the country.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. No. No, we are not going anywhere!


SAVIDGE: Here is CNN correspondent Ed Lavandera with a look at what lies ahead.


ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: While the Trump administration remains unapologetic in its support in the way it's rolled out the so- called zero tolerance policy for undocumented immigrants crossing into the U.S. southern border, there is a growing chorus of frustration and anger and protests that will start to be invisible here on Sunday in south Texas. There is a congressional delegation that will be touring several immigration facilities throughout the region, throughout the day. Most of the members of that delegation very much opposed to this zero tolerance policy.

There is a vigil protest also scheduled to occur here on Sunday in McAllen, and there is another congressman who is leading a march and protest toward the newly open temporary facility for undocumented immigrant children facility and that was opened in far west Texas.

So, a lot of this is really starting to pick up as the stories that have emerged from these -- from the zero tolerance policy and people are watching this play out, really starting to pick up steam. But as I mentioned off the top, the Trump administration is unapologetic. They continue to say that this policy is designed to deter undocumented immigrants from continuing to pour into the U.S. southern border.

However, when you report here on the ground and you talk to immigrants who have just crossed the border, news of this policy isn't necessarily making it to every corner of these countries in Central America and Mexico as well, where most of these undocumented immigrants are coming from. And when you do talk to them, if they do know about the policy, they say it is a risk that they are very much willing to take, that anything is better than the homes and -- hometowns they are coming from.

So, that's the latest we're hearing in South Texas as the frustration and anger and the focus on this issue really continues to build up.

[07:05:02] Ed Lavandera, CNN, McAllen, Texas.


SAVIDGE: Thank you very much for that, Ed.

Sources tell CNN that President Trump is going to head to go Capitol Hill Tuesday to talk immigration with House Republicans.

PAUL: Yes, the visit follows several days of -- as we just talked about there, confusion to over which plan the president would support here.

CNN White House reporter Sarah Westwood joining us live from Washington.

Sarah, is there anymore clarity on that this morning?

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Well, the spotlight is certainly on President Trump's push for immigration reform this week, particularly after he did stir up that confusion on Friday, but incorrectly stating he would refuse to sign a compromise bill that his own White House actually helps negotiate. Now, White House officials later tried to clear things up, saying Trump would, in fact, sign that bill and insisting that Trump simply misunderstood the question he was asked, but it underscored the chaos that has surrounded Republican immigration talks for months now. Top Trump aide Kellyanne Conway defended the president, saying he consistently sent a clear message on immigration and blaming Democrats for holding up progress on a bill.

Take a listen.


CONWAY: The president, as he's wanted to do, is try to bring everybody together to come up with a common sense plan but he could not be more clear on his view of immigration is. He wants to -- he wants to have a sovereign nation that has physical borders. These Democrats refuse to provide the funding necessary so that can you expand the detention centers, that you have more ICE agents, some common sense measures and they have been -- they have been saying --


WESTWOOD: Of course, this all comes against the backdrop of increased scrutiny that the Trump administration's decision to step up family separation at the border. Democrats are putting more and more pressure on the administration to reverse that decision. Even as Trump and his allies continue to blame Democrats for the existence of the law requiring family separation. Of course, no such law actually exists.

Now, Trump will head to Capitol Hill on Tuesday, where he'll face Republicans head-on and hope to smooth over some of those divisions that had held up legislation in the House -- Martin and Christi.

PAUL: All right. Sarah Westwood, appreciate the update, thank you.

SAVIDGE: Democrats aren't alone in opposing this forced separation of undocumented migrant families . Listen to what two Republican congressmen told CNN.


REP. WILL HURD (R), TEXAS: In the home of the free and the land of the brave, we should not be using kids as a deterrent policy. This is something I think is actually unacceptable and is something that, as Americans, we shouldn't be doing. And this really isn't a Republican or a Democratic issue. This is an issue about how should you treat children.

REP. FRANCIS ROONEY (R), FLORIDA: I would rather keep the families unified and detain them and adjudicate them. I think it would be a good idea.


PAUL: Now, the question now as president Trump prepares to meet with House Republicans whether family separations are a catalyst for a sweeping immigration reform bill or a roadblock. The so-called compromised bill worked out by House Republicans would fund the border wall while providing legal status for so-called Dreamers.

Friday, while accusing Democrats of pushing a, quote, horrible and cruel agenda, the president said any bill he signs must have wall funding and merit-based admissions, while ending catch and release, chain migration and visa lotteries.

SAVIDGE: Joining us is deputy managing editor of "The Weekly Standard", Kelly Jane Torrance.

And good morning to you. Thank you very much for joining us. KELLY JANE TORRANCE, DEPUTY MANAGING EDITOR, THE WEEKLY STANDARD:

Good morning. Happy Father's Day.

SAVIDGE: Thank you.

Well, let's start up with a couple of things. You know, I listened to that sound bite from Kellyanne Conway and I don't know if she realizes it, but, you know, the statement she makes is that essentially this administration, this president is trying to bring people together by tearing families apart and does she not see just how odd a statement that is? On top of the confusion that came from the president with his different statements he made on, well, earlier in the week. And, lastly, I'll point out Congress is supposed to vote this week.

So, what do we make of all of this?

TORRANCE: It's a great question -- questions, Martin. And, yes, I guess President Trump is sort of bringing people together and that you have people on both sides of the aisle, of all political persuasions who are really quite shocked and appalled by what is going on with family situation.

Now, I understand some of the motivation behind it. They, apparently, there were people that made sure that they brought children with them because they were going to be treated differently from single people who are crossing the border illegally. But, you know, you can't visit the sins of the fathers on the children. And the idea that you're going to punish young children, traumatize them because of what their parents did.

Again, this has nothing -- the children are not -- they don't have the free will. They haven't decided to cross the border themselves. And it's a little bit like the Dreamers and, of course, President Trump has said, you know, a number of times, he supports helping the Dreamers because they didn't make the decision to come here as children.

[07:10:04] And so, it is very confusing. You know, especially with what happened on Friday. You know, you had -- Donald Trump, as you mentioned, make this comment on Fox in the morning that he wasn't going to support the moderate bill. Then you had an anonymous White House source telling "The Hill" that he would support it and a different anonymous source telling "Breitbart" that he wouldn't.

So, the confusion continued all day. Paul Ryan actually cancelled some meetings he had with Republicans to work on getting this bill ready and ready to vote next week. And he cancelled those meetings. Finally, at the end of the day, a White House spokesman went on the record while Sean said, yes, the president would support this. But there was already some damage done.

And let's face it, we don't have a lot of time and everybody is itching to get out and campaign for the midterms. So, there's not a lot of time in Congress to get something done. And, yes, I think this is a catalyst. People know that there have been many immigration issues over the course of months that we have been hearing about, but when they see families torn together, this is -- hey, we can't wait any longer. We need to do something about this now.

PAUL: So, we just heard from Representative Rooney there saying that he'd rather keep the families unified. He'd detain them and adjudicate them. He is not comfortable with this. Will Hurd has said the same thing.

We are five months away from midterms. This has captured the attention of everyone. Do you believe there will be some political hell to pay for this on one side or the other?

TORRANCE: You know, Christi, I think there will, although it's always hard to say what Trump's base will think. You know, Trump's base has turned out to be very loyal to the president and when he blames Democrats for this problem -- now we know that that's not the case. We know this is a policy from his office.

And, in fact, you know, the last two administrations actually apparently thought about doing this and I read a great piece that detail some of their discussions and they finally decided no, we can't do this. The optics are bad, and morally, it's bad.

And so, no, this is definitely this administration, but will President Trump be successful in convincing a number of voters that that's not the case, that it is somebody else's fault? I hope not. I hope they watch CNN and see what's really going on here. But, yes, I think -- you know, I think maybe some voters that were thinking, well, President Trump's presidency hasn't been so bad and some successes, there were other things, they might see this and get riled up and this may get people a little more enthusiastic and interested in getting to those mid terms.

SAVIDGE: Yes, we've heard this before, but it may truly be the case because this has just exploded on social media, as well as in public conversations.

Thanks very much, Kelly Jane Torrance, for joining us.

TORRANCE: Thank you.

PAUL: Thank you, Kelly.

So, of course, immigration dominating the national conversation right now, but there is another story that's gaining some attention. A daughter is sharing quite an emotional account of her father arrested and facing deportation after living in the U.S. legally for nearly 50 years.

SAVIDGE: Plus, Kim Jong-un and President Trump exchange phone numbers this week. What do you know? And the first phone call between the two of them, it could happen today. Next, we'll go live to South Korea.

PAUL: And we want to share with you some stunning new pictures from the Kilauea volcano. See how the lava has changed Hawaii's landscape. We'll show you more in a moment.


[07:17:32] SAVIDGE: There is such an ordinary thing, but really it's an extraordinary thing. Usually when you meet a friend or meet someone, you say, here's my number. Give me a call.

PAUL: Right, right.

SAVIDGE: Well, that happened to happen this week with the president and North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un. They exchanged direct phone numbers when they met in Singapore and the president says he plans to call Kim today, if he hasn't already done so.

PAUL: Yes. But in the meantime, the Pentagon and military brass from South Korea are scrambling to turn the president's announcement on halting so-called war games into policy.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Seoul.

Nic, do you get the sense that South Korea was surprised by this announcement about the war games?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Sure. That's very much the case. And what we have been hearing from the foreign minister and from the president here is that they want to be more involved in these decisions the United States are taking and war games, the joint military exercises they like to call them is something that both sides agree on mutually. So, I think what we're seeing here is a little backtracking, a little painstaking effort to get, you know, to get the messaging on this right.

It's not clear yet if President Trump has made the phone call to Kim Jong-un in North Korea. It's about 8:15 in the evening in Pyongyang so I guess there's a couple of more hours where he could still make that call.

From a South Korean perspective, they believe this is a great -- is a great opportunity for -- for Kim Jong-un and President Trump to sort out any personal issues that come up. So, from a South Korea perspective, that was part of the messaging that they got out of the summit and subsequently from President Trump as being something that -- something that's positive.

But we do know South Korea's deputy foreign minister is going to -- is going to Washington later this week and is expected to meet with senior officials and would be expected to talk about this issue of the joint military exercises. So perhaps we might begin to learn a time frame on this but from a South Korean perspective, communications with the North, absolutely key. They are putting -- they are putting two communications offices into a joint enterprise with the North Koreans to open up a line of -- reopen a line of communications with the North Koreans later this week.

So, this is -- this is something that is seen as important and significant from the South Korean side.

[07:20:00] SAVIDGE: Of course, it would and it is. I still would love to hear the conversation between the two mean.

Anyway, Nic Robertson, thank you very much.

PAUL: So, still to come, a legal resident of California for nearly 50 years is arrested and detained by immigration officials. But, now, awaiting deportation. His daughter talks to us about what happened and what's next for her father.

SAVIDGE: Plus, he's an outspoken advocate for immigrants and has been actively protesting the president's family separation policy. Democratic Congressman Luis Gutierrez will join us live next to tell us what he is doing to help these families and his message to the president.


[07:25:21] PAUL: Twenty-five minutes past the hour right now.

Always good to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul.

SAVIDGE: And I'm Martin Savidge, in for Victor Blackwell.

Democrats are firing back at President Trump, blaming them for his own administration's policy changes.

PAUL: The separation of children from their parents at the border -- this is becoming a bargaining chip for an immigration deal it seems.

SAVIDGE: Protests continue across the country. In a few hours, more than half dozen lawmakers will start touring facilities along the U.S.-Mexico border.

PAUL: And sources tell CNN President Trump is heading to Capitol Hill on Tuesday to talk immigration with House Republicans.

Well, Congressman Luis Gutierrez is with us, an advocate for immigrants who will be spending this Father's Day with children from Central America, seeking asylum in the U.S. Some have settled in Chicago.

So, Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

REP. LUIS GUTIERREZ (D), ILLINOIS: Thank you, Christi.

PAUL: What is your reaction over what we have seen over the last 48 hours?

GUTIERREZ: Wow. I can't think in my life what's the most transformative moment in my life if not the day my wife gave birth to my two beautiful daughters, Omaira and Jessica, and I still remember that moment so vividly when the doctor placed them in my arms. I can't think of a better greater, more transformative moment, and to think that children are being ripped from parents' arms.

To think of my daughters being on one side of a wall, think of a large room. They are on one side of the wall and they are screaming out for me and I hear them, and there's absolutely nothing I can do. They have been separated from me.

I can't think of anything more chilling. And I can't think of any more evil that a -- anything worse or more evil a government can do than to rip a child away from their parents. I just can't.

PAUL: And that is exactly why I think this is resonating with people, because we are all children of someone. Many of us are parents and cannot imagine ourselves in that position as well. So when we know, say, that there is going to be this meeting on Tuesday with the president, with Republicans. You tweeted this earlier this week, you said -- speaking of Republicans -- I see them scared of the president's itchy Twitter finger and afraid to stand up to a bully because they are scared of losing their jobs. That's shameful.

Do you believe in that meeting on Tuesday anybody will stand up to the president?

GUTIERREZ: I don't think anything will change on Tuesday. Sorry for being so pessimistic, but there is nothing. Look, this is a Republican strategy to win the election, to be as mean, as nasty, as cruel as you can be.

PAUL: But not all Republicans support -- not all Republicans support what we have been seeing.

GUTIERREZ: Yes. But here is the difference, Christi. When Obama did not take action to protect immigrants, Democrats stood up to him. Democrats went and got arrested in front of the White House. We took on our party leadership.

I don't see them doing that. Words are easy. They need to ferociously denounce these policies. Look, it is how they are going to vote. And if there's one glue that keeps the Republican Party together in the House, we got up to -- let me see -- 216 signatures.

We were two signatures short so that we could have a vote to free Dreamers, right? And we couldn't get them! We could barely get 20 Republicans to do it.

PAUL: We have so many people --

GUTIERREZ: They are afraid of --

PAUL: But we have so many people who are -- we have so many people who are blaming President Trump for this. What we are seeing the last 48 hours, yes, in terms of this practice of separation.

But there are also a lot of people who say there have been years for Congress to take this up and to have some sort of legislative fix. Why is this so elusive and who do you blame in Congress for us getting to this point?

GUTIERREZ: Let me say this. Two things, so that we're very clear. Democrats have stood very proudly with the immigrant community. Have we grown? Have we changed? Absolutely, we have grown and changed. And I almost marvel at that change and I'm happy and delighted with

that change. But, unfortunately, where are the voices? We need more voices in the Republican Party to stand up and to work with Democrats.

They said, let's do a bill so that we can set Dreamers aside and let them live in America free of deportation. A hundred and ninety-four Democrats, every last one of us, signed up so we could have a vote on that bill. We couldn't get the necessary Republicans and these are Republicans that say they sponsor the bills, they like the bill, but they won't and they lack the political courage to take that step.

[07:30:08] PAUL: Congressman, let me --

GUTIERREZ: Let's be clear -- let's be clear that this policy is a policy of Donald Trump. Remember, Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, said this is a private matter. Women fleeing torture, abuse, rape, right? Murder, in their countries and fleeing to the United States seeking asylum and political protection in our country. He says that's a private matter.

In America, beating a woman is not a private matter. It's a very public matter.

PAUL: Right. There are laws against it. There are laws against it.

Will you vote for either of the plans that you see thus far?

GUTIERREZ: No. Neither of those plans are plans that anyone should endorse. They are plans that will continue to separate families. You think this is bad what's happening at the border? Part of the plan of the Republican Party is to change the laws so to make it easier to separate a mom and a dad from their children.

And let me say this -- Dreamers, almost 2 million strong in this country, they don't want a policy that is going to give them freedom and, at the same time, allow for the deportation of their moms and their dads. We're not going to do that. We're going to have a fair, balanced process.

PAUL: I literally have 10 seconds. What would you say to the president if you could say something to him on Tuesday?

GUTIERREZ: Just be a dad. I'm sure you love your children. Love these children the same way you love your own. Be a dad, for one moment. Don't be president. Be a dad. Open your heart.

PAUL: Representative Luis Gutierrez, we appreciate you taking the time to be with us this morning. Thank you, sir.

GUTIERREZ: Thank you, Christi.

SAVIDGE: In addition to the growing number of family separations at the border, another immigration story is gaining national attention. Sixty-two-year-old Jose Luis Garcia of California moved from Mexico to the U.S. nearly 50 years ago. He was arrested by immigration officials last week, outside of his home, for a misdemeanor conviction of 18 years ago.

PAUL: And now, he is being held in a detention center awaiting possible deportation.

CNN spoke with Garcia's daughter about what happened that day.


NATALIE GARCIA, FATHER DETAINED BY ICE: It was just a typical Sunday morning and drinking his coffee, watering the lawn, and he started screaming out my name and I ran out, and there was eight officers or agents arresting him. I asked for a warrant and they didn't show me a warrant. They said they were going to take him.

It was due to a domestic dispute that he had in 2001. And he had a misdemeanor and they didn't tell me where he was going to be taken or anything. They just took him.

He's a green card holder. He is a legal resident, permanent resident. He's been here for 50 years. He's paid his taxes. He's a homeowner.

He's been here. He has nine grandchildren, two great grandchildren. He takes care of my daughter.

And they should not even be separating families. They should not be dragging people from their homes and kidnapping them in this country. This is my father's country.

He has been here almost his whole life. We were all born here. We all live here.

He's been a model citizen. He has three jobs. Like, he has paid his taxes. He came here for the American dream and now it's a nightmare.


SAVIDGE: Well, the future is uncertain right now. Natalie Garcia said that she has been able to see her father. She visited him Saturday at the detention facility where he's being held.

Meanwhile, still to come, Rudy Giuliani on the campaign trail for the GOP calling for an end to the possibility of impeachment for the president? More on that ahead.

PAUL: Listen, there is such good news out there, incredible people changing the world for the better. Here is a preview of our special series, "Champions for Change."


ANNOUNCER: All this week, a special CNN series. Our anchors profile "Champions for Change."

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: We traveled the globe telling stories of change makers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This time, we're joining their mission to make a difference.

BILL WEIR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Giving time to the causes that are dear to our hearts.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And sharing the stories of the champions leading the charge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's for a great cause. That's motivating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had to help them in ways that lets them see that this is not how your life has to be.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is an opportunity to pay it forward. To do something that's going to be meaningful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are the kinds of students any community would be blessed to have.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just warms your heart that you could help someone with food.


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Join the journalists of CNN as we work alongside "Champions for Change".

[07:35:04] ANNOUNCER: All this week, presented by Charles Schwab.



PAUL: (INAUDIBLE) past the hour right now.

And at a campaign rally in New York, Rudy Giuliani slammed FBI officials for their handling of the Hillary Clinton email probe and called for, quote, an end to the possible impeachment of the president. He said the entire Russia investigation is, quote, made up of a bunch of distorted human beings who cried when Clinton lost the election.


RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Imagine FBI agents and prosecutors crying when Hillary Clinton wasn't elected? I think if I could get those pictures of them crying, instead of investigating President Trump, they should go to Belleview!

[07:40:05] Quackadoodles! We want Hillary! What's going to happen? I need a psychiatrist!

Let's keep this seat Republican and stop the possibility of a ridiculous impeachment.


SAVIDGE: Oh, I'm sorry.

He went on to stress the importance of keeping congressional seats for Republicans to avoid those impeachment proceedings. I was just thinking about that whole impeachment thing.

But let's digress and here to discuss, CNN political commentator Alice Stewart and opinion columnist for "The Hill", Brent Budowsky.

Alice, let me start with you first. When the president -- well, we should say that Giuliani was talking about a couple of things this week. One of them was it was his advice that, of course, the president should not sit down and have a conversation with the Mueller team. He also said that the Mueller investigation now needs to be investigated, which is mind-boggling.

So, what's the likelihood the president is going to listen to his attorney here?

ALICE STEWART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Very small. I think Rudy is giving sound advice and encouraging the president not to testify given his loose relationship with the truth. With regard to the statements he made at that rally, I think, clearly, the I.G. reports show that there were some failures in the FBI with regard to the Hillary email investigation.

Pillow talk between FBI agents should have stayed on the pillow and not on text, and they disclosed some of their preferences as to possibly who they may want to win the election. But, overall, they showed know overall political bias in that.

But one thing that remains clear the IG report is a clear rebuke of some members of the FBI but, Martin, it has nothing to do with the Mueller investigation on Russia. So, for Giuliani or the president to say that they are exonerated now because of the IG report is simply just not true. So, in my view, I think they should take the IG report for what it is and it was not good for the FBI. But they need to just realize, we still have the Mueller investigate ahead of us and there is serious allegations the Mueller team is investigating and they need to make that they get out of the way and let them do their work.

If this say there is no coordination or no collusion, then let Mueller find that and let's move on.

SAVIDGE: Brent, I want to bring you in with this conversation, and let's talk about the issue of pardon because that also has been brought up a great deal by Attorney Giuliani here. Pardon is not necessarily a solve-all thing for the president. I mean, explain that really there are some complications with it.

BRENT BUDOWSKY, OPINION COLUMNIST, THE HILL: Oh, yes, there's no doubt in my view that Trump does have the authority to pardon Manafort and Cohen. Second, if he does, you'll probably going to see the outrage in the country so big that there'll be a massive Democratic wave victory in the midterm elections.

But, most important, here is the key point: if he does pardon, say, Manafort and Cohen, after he does, they will be subpoenaed and have to testify before the grand jury without an attorney under penalty of perjury, under oath. And they will have to say everything they know, the whole truth, all of the facts, whatever negatives they may know about Trump, they will have to say it all. If they don't do that, they will be then prosecuted for perjury and could spend the rest of their lives in jail because there'll be a lot of perjury counts done if they do lie under oath after they have been pardoned and he can't keep pardoning them every three weeks for the next felony they commit.

So, legally, if he pardons Manafort and Cohen, the net effect of this, Manafort and Cohen may get away with it, but they'll be forced to turn to Trump and provide all of the dirt and that will be the ultimate legal nightmare for Trump. I suspect his better attorneys, and he has some good attorneys, not Rudy being one of them, they probably have told him this and, in my opinion, he won't pardon them because it would be a suicide move for the reasons I just stated.

SAVIDGE: And real quick, I want to ask you both and start with you, Brent. Why is Giuliani bringing up impeachment here?

BUDOWSKY: Rudy ought to be relegated to late night comedy. I mean, he's done more damage to Trump legally and politically. The more he talks, the better the midterm election for Democrats goes on. I cannot even imagine why he is talking about that and what they ought to be doing is saying he didn't do it, but they're not saying that, except Trump saying I didn't collude even though there was a famous collusion meeting at Trump Tower.

STEWART: Martin, I think one thing clearly, you heard the crowd there. This rallies the base. This gets them excited when we talk about this and the so-called witch hunt.

But Mueller has made it clear. He has no intention of indicting the president. He doesn't see that that is something that could be done.

But the possibility of impeachment is real if we don't keep Republicans in the House and Senate.

[07:45:03] So, therefore, that is why Giuliani and Trump are going out there to make sure that we elect Republicans in the midterm and keep our control.

But, Martin, you travel the country. You talk to these people. I see your stories. They are not talking about that.

People want to talk about jobs. They want to talk about security. They want to talk about seniors and health care. Those are the issues, in my view, are winning issues for Republicans.

They need to go out and talk about, not just to the base but to broaden the base and that's a winning message for Republicans. And I hope they move -- moving forward, they focus on those issues that you talk to people about that they are concerned with and let's get off this impeachment talk.

SAVIDGE: It's true that many of his base believe all of this talk of just the prosecution is made up. They don't buy into any of it.

But, Brent, let me ask you this. Immigration, I'm switching really quick. This is a very powerful issue and it's one that many Republicans feel strongly about as well. After all, they're a party that has spoken up very frequently about supporting the family, and yet, the president is seen as a man tearing families apart.

How damaging is this?

BUDOWSKY: Very damaging and I'll be real quick about this. Donald Trump should fall to his knees and pray to the Lord for his forgiveness for the cruel punishment he is imposing on the children here. It is a disgrace. He should fall to his knees and pray for forgiveness for lying when he blames President Obama for it and he should fall to his knees and pray for forgiveness for having anyone in his administration use the word of the Lord from the Bible as a justification for barbaric cruelty to children.

I don't think voters want that and I think Republicans say don't stop it, they are going to regret it.

SAVIDGE: Brent Budowsky and Alice Stewart, thank you both for being with us today.

STEWART: Thank you, and happy Father's Day.

SAVIDGE: Thank you and to you.

I guess I should say, don't miss the president's attorney -- I just can't read these things. Rudy Giuliani today, he is going to be on "STATE OF THE UNION" with Jake Tapper. That's at 9:00 Eastern.

PAUL: It's still early morning! It's OK, it's still early morning.

Listen, we need to show you some of these pictures coming in of this river of lava from Hawaii's Kilauea volcano and it's destroying everything. Hundreds of homes. Hundreds are gone!

We have an update for you from the big island. Stay close.


[07:51:33] PAUL: All right. Take a look at this new video we're getting in now from Hawaii. It looks like a river and it is, of lava that is flowing out of a fissure from the Kilauea volcano and it's going straight into the ocean. You see the steam there.

Hawaiian officials now say nearly 500 homes have been destroyed in these ongoing eruptions that started more than a month ago at this point.

SAVIDGE: More than 5,000 acres on Hawaii's big island are now covered by lava. Shelters remain open.

PAUL: Look how fast --

SAVIDGE: Yes, it is stunning. The images have really been almost mesmerizing.

PAUL: Yes.

SAVIDGE: And, of course, you wouldn't have the Hawaiian Islands without volcanoes.

PAUL: Yes.

SAVIDGE: Nature gives and takes it one go.

PAUL: Yes, but the people are in shelters there and we're just waiting for things to maybe change for them so they can try to get a little bit of normalcy, because this is an awfully long time to live with the fear of this and the uncertainty of it, and there is a new study that published this week as well and another weather-related segment, well, weather-related but nature-related segment.

Antarctica is melting apparently at an alarming rate.

SAVIDGE: Scientists say that sea levels will rise and wreck havoc on coastal communities prone to flooding over the next several decades.

Joining us now to explain all of this, CNN meteorologist Allison Chinchar.

Good morning.


Yes. So, to really understand this, you have to understand how Antarctica is broken down. It's broken into three regions, OK? You have the peninsula region, West Antarctica and then East Antarctica, which is very, very large.

Now, if you ever hear -- you know, global warming naysayers, people that say, hey, I read online that, you know, it's actually getting bigger, there's more ice now, it's expanding, what they are referring to is East Antarctica where areas of this -- yes, they are getting more snow. It is expanding.

The problem is, it's not enough to offset the losses from the other two regions and that's the big concern that you even have an area that is getting larger but it is still not enough to do much. Look at this number. So, this yellow region right of here, it is East Antarctica. It's basically stable in terms of gains versus losses.

But it's this darker blue color you see here, this is Antarctica overall, showing you that we really are seeing the overall loss. And more importantly, in just the last ten years how it has really taken a dive, OK?

So, here's the thing we need to understand, since 1990, Antarctica ice melts have added about 0.3 inches to sea level. You may be thinking, that's hardly anything. That can't possibly mean much.

Before 2012, it was that 83 billion tons of ice per year. But since 2012 that rate has tripled. And what that means is, for a lot of coastal cities, New York, Miami, New Orleans, a lot of these cities, this is where you're going to have some of the biggest impacts, OK?

Take for example, this is London. You can see a lot of these areas right here. Notice as we push this forward two degrees and four degrees warmer how it now becomes under water. And Martin and Christi, I want to put something in perspective for people, too, OK?

The thing that we need to understand is, just like hurricanes, I can tell you that there is going to be a hurricane next year, but I can't tell you what city it may be in. That's the same for this. We know that sea level rise is happening, it's just very hard for us to pin point which cities are going to be most impacted by this.

PAUL: Wow. All right. Allison Chinchar, great display. Thank you.

CHINCHAR: Thank you.

SAVIDGE: Golf is a game of rules. If you were watching the U.S. Open yesterday, you saw one of those rules broken in a pretty big way.

[07:55?05] COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: I thought there was drama in the World Cup, Martin and Christi. Drama and controversy at the U.S. Open. What was Phil Mickelson doing?

Golf purists want him to withdraw from the tournament. Other folks like Martin and I and Christi, it's like putt-putt. We do that all the time. We're going to hear from Phil Mickelson and what he was thinking, coming up.


PAUL: So, Phil Mickelson is taking a lot of heat for taking a penalty intentionally at the U.S. Open.

SAVIDGE: Now, who has not done this? I've done it.

WIRE: Yes, we've done it, right? But these are the pros, Martin, how dare you include yourself, what some are saying, right? But these awful conditions at the third round of the U.S. Open had some of the best players in the world looking like dudes after a bachelor party, after some beers playing golf.

But nothing like what Phil Nicholson did. Look at the media swarm afterwards trying to find out what in the world were you thinking on the 13th hole, man? Already putting for bogey, here it is, he misses long and as the ball is rolling he runs after it and says I have to stop it. Before it stops moving he just taps it back towards the hole.

You can't do that. That's a two-stroke penalty. Phil shot a 10 on that par 4, finished 11 over for the day. But he says that wasn't frustration or goofing around, that was strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) PHIL MICKELSON, PRO GOLFER: I mean, how can you not laugh? It's funny. It's -- you know, it's part of the U.S. Open. It's just funny. And I don't mean it disrespectfully. So, I hope nobody's -- you know, if you are taking it that way, look, I'm sorry, that's not the way it's meant. I just wanted to get to the next hole and I didn't see that happening at the time without the two shots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll say that's one of the strangest things I have ever seen. And I started laughing, to be honest, and I said, I'm sorry but I have to laugh at this.


WIRE: Yes, I'm with that guy. I understand the golfing purists. Some are very serious, want him to withdraw. You're setting bad example for kids who look up to you.

SAVIDGE: It is the U.S. Open, yes.

WIRE: So, four players right now tied for the lead, Dustin Johnson. We'll see how things go.

So far, Phil Mickelson is going to continue to play.

PAUL: All right, right. And again, happy Father's Day to the new dad and happy Father's Day to this one and happy Father's Day to my dad and to my husband.

And, everybody, being a father it is no joke. It takes some kahunas. It's not for wussies is what we always say. Mom ain't for wussies.

SAVIDGE: No, no.

PAUL: Neither is being a father. So, thank you for everything you do because it matters.

And thank you for starting your morning with us. We hope you make good memories today.

SAVIDGE: "INSIDE POLITICS" with Nia-Malika Henderson starts right now.