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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Urgent Manhunt For Dangerous Escaped Inmates; Woman Held Captive In Dirt Pit Under Shed; Bizarre New Claims; Drunk and Speeding?; Amazing Video; One More Thing; Family`s Accused Killer Wheeled Into Court; Teen`s Traffic Stop Goes From Bad To Worse; Baby Scales Closed Pool Ladder Like Spiderman; Disney Worker Dad Who Disappeared Years Ago, Found His Body In His Own Backyard. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired June 19, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, this is "Crime and Justice." Tonight the
urgent manhunt for two dangerous inmates who busted out of jail by smashing through that wall. Bernice Man is tracking the search. Did I really did
see what I think I saw?
BERNICE MAN, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: You did, Ashleigh. Walls could not even keep them in.
BANFIELD: Unreal.
MAN: One is even awaiting trial for murder. And police say they are very dangerous. And they are on the hunt, but they are not the only inmates on
the loose tonight.
BANFIELD: All right. We`ll check in with you on that one. Thank you for that, Bernice.
Also tonight, the Ohio man tried to explain why he would take his neighbor hostage and imprison her in a backyard pit. Our Justin Freiman is covering
this terrifying story. Justin, he told police he was trying to keep her safe, but safe from what?
JUSTIN FREIMAN, SR. PRODUCER, HLN CNN: He claims he was trying to keep her safe from a prostitution ring, but keeping her safe by throwing her in a
dirt pit, covering it, and tell her, you cannot get out -- not so sure about that.
BANFIELD: Yes, I smell a rat. And I also smell a strange defense. All right, Justin, thank you for that. We will check in a moment.
Also tonight, the beginning of justice. For a family of five who was killed by a drunk driver on their way home from the elementary school. Our
Dave Siegel is covering this case. David, the man who hit them says he was on pain medication when the police came to talk to him. And he sure did
play up the injuries when he showed up in court. This was actually him in court.
DAVE SIEGEL, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Actually, jury selection began today, but did police mishandle this case by talking to this guy while he was in the
hospital recovering from that same accident? Nevertheless, he is charged with five counts of murder.
BANFIELD: Well, it might sound like an easy way out. You might be onto something there too, Dave. Thank you for that. Check in, in a moment.
Later, human remains just identified in the backyard of a Disney world employee. A Disney world employee, who went missing years ago. Police say
the remains are his and that his wife isn`t helping. The same wife who reportedly got married just a couple of feet from that backyard burial
site.
Plus, the brazen 19-year-old who was pulled over for blowing through a stop sign and then ended up in handcuffs with an entire rap sheet. Wait until
you see the video of some absolutely stunned police officers as the charges just start to rack up.
First, though, I want to take you to Southern Illinois, where two dangerous inmates are running from the police tonight after escaping from jail on
Saturday morning, and one of them is a suspected murder. And these guys have already proven what they`re willing to do to be free, because even
though most inmates bust out of jail in the figurative sense, taking advantage of some hole in the system, police say that Zachary Shock and
Johnny Tipton, literally busted out of prison.
They made that hole in the wall with a pipe they found in the showers, used it to smash through brick and concrete. And to be fair, they did have a
little help, from two others who were just arrested for aiding them. And from a third inmate who also got out with them. Deputies were quick to
catch up with him, though. The third one, actually, he was only out for a couple hours before they caught him. He was spotted walking along those
county road, this one was just a few miles east of the jail, but his buddies have been reportedly been spotted heading west.
Still haven`t been caught, though. And police can only warn people in that area to keep an eye open for two guys who could spend a lifetime behind
bars if anybody tries to mess with all of this new-found freedom.
Joining me now, Len Wells, news Director at WFWI radio in Illinois, and Art Roderick, the assistant director of U.S. marshals and a CNN law enforcement
analyst. Defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant is with me as well. OK, you three, let me start with you Len, if I can. What`s the update? Are they
any closer to tracking these guys?
LEN WELLS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WFIW NEWS RADIO: Well, I tell you what, right now, they`re counting on the public sightings of these individuals. Of
course the U.S. Marshalls are really involved in this manhunt. The latest physical sighting was last evening. Let`s say probably about 15, 20 miles
west of the break-out scene where Zachary Shock is from, we he was sight, it was not too far from his hometown. He was around a community called
Dahlgren, but they set up a tight perimeter last night and had to break the perimeter around 10:00 last night after there were no further sightings.
They had k-9s, they even had a drone, and they were still not were able to find these two suspects.
BANFIELD: But the third one they found really quickly. Did they think that all three of them had planned to go in separate directions to make it
difficult or do they think maybe, two were still together and one of them, well, he was just unlucky.
WELLS: Well, one of them had help from friends. I mean, this gray character that was caught about 16 and a half hours after he broke out, had
three people aiding in his escape. And one of them picked him up and got involved with a pursuit with the White County Sheriff`s Department, ramming
a Grayville City police car during the getaway, but then abandoned --
[18:05:15] BANFIELD: Wait, don`t go any further, this is starting to get complicated. We got three guys who busted out.
WELLS: That is right.
BANFIELD: The guy on the far right, Justin Bray, who was captured, but not before that Justin Bray, the one on the right, ended up involving a couple
of other characters. And if the accusations are correct, the other characters involved two ladies on the outside, two ladies who had vehicles
and at least one of them who, without question, had Bray in her car.
WELLS: Correct.
BANFIELD: And I think this was the one on the left, Wendy Owen.
WELLS: Wendy Owen was allegedly at the wheel.
BANFIELD: Yes. Tell me what happened when they caught up with Wendy Owen who had Justin Bray in the car. What happen next?
WELLS: Well, Justin Bray bailed out of the car and took off running. He eventually jumped in the back waters of the Wabash River and took off
swimming, and they were unable to capture him there. He later jumped into a sand pit, swam again, and still was able to elude officers until about
7:30 that night. He has flee them in the last 16 and half hours, he jumped into an oil field tank to hide. And that is where they finally found him.
BANFIELD: He went into a tank in an oil field? An actual oil tank?
WELLS: An oil field tank and it was empty, fortunate for him, I guess.
BANFIELD: Yes.
WELLS: But that is where he was located, he was brought out of the tank and taken back to jail, but the other two cats are still on the loose.
BANFIELD: That is a little messy though, empty or not. Did they get a k-9 in on that? Is that how they found him in the tank?
WELLS: They had a k-9, but they spotted him walking along the road, called in a lot of other officers, along with a k-9, tracked him into this oil
field area and then saw him actually go into the tank. That is where the chase ended.
BANFIELD: Unreal. So there`s this resident who is in the area, obviously the police are warning a lot of people in the area, be careful. Look, this
guy, one of them is up for murder. Charges that he is facing aggravated battery and firearm, murder. And the other one was being held on theft.
These guys had not yet faced trial. So they were still going to face trial, right?
WELLS: Zachary Shock has actually been in the White County Jail since September of 2016 awaiting trial.
BANFIELD: That is the one wanted for murder?
WELLS: Yes, wanted for murder.
BANFIELD: Yes. He was waiting on a murder charge. So real quickly, Dean Fleck (ph), I`m not sure if I pronounced the name right, Dean Fleck, was
asked by one of the local reporters in the area, are you worried about this, given the fact you live in this area and these guys could be
anywhere. This is -- this is what was said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, when I heard about it, I didn`t think too much about it, but whenever they said there`s a murder out, that made a little
difference, but I`m not really that afraid. I`m ready for him. I have a gun right beside me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Oh, man. Don`t mess with Dean (ph). OK. Art Roderick, did you have a chance to call your friends at the U.S. Marshals, to find out if
they know anything on this one?
ART RODERICK, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALSYT: Oh, yes, I did and I will tell you, the U.S. Marshalls were early on in this case, because Bray -- Bray
was actually federally charged and the marshals have these contracts all around the country where they hold prisoners in county jails. And that is
why the marshals got involved very early on, but they are continuing to assist the state and locals with the investigation. And generally, almost
in every single escape, there`s two phases of the escape. There is planning how to get out of the facility, which they have all the time in
the world on their hands to make those plans.
BANFIELD: Sure.
RODERICK: And the second part is, what do you do once you get outside? So it seems like Bray had somebody assisting him. And it`s very possibly that
the other two might have had somebody assisting them. Now generally, sometimes they break up. They get out and then they go their own separate
ways. On occasions, we have come across individuals that will stay together, but in this particular case, it seems like, at this point in
time, at least one of them broke off.
BANFIELD: Yes. Well, we do know that Wendy Owen, who apparently, if the story is accurate from the cops, she went for broke. She rammed the car
that she had and Justin Bray, the guy they captured, was in the car. She rammed it right into the side of a squad car. And they caught both of
them. The one on the left is Wendy. The one on the right is someone else who is kind of unusual. Her name is Carly Schmittler. She is -- she
doesn`t have anybody in her car, but they`re charging her with attempting aiding escape, attempted concealing or aiding a fugitive.
RODERICK: Yes.
BANFIELD: So there`s an interesting side story to Carly on the right, but we know Wendy is facing a battery of charges. Aggravated battery, criminal
damage to government supportive property, aggravated assault, aiding a fugitive, aggravating fleeing or attempting to elude police officer,
driving while license revoked, which maybe the least of her worries.
[18:10:00] Art, real quickly, can I just throw up this map --
RODERICK: Sure.
BANFIELD: -- this is what we`ve been able to get from the authorities who are chasing these guys.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: And it`s a little tricky, but follow me. You see the White County Jail, the red dot right beside it. That is where they started.
RODERICK: Yes, exactly.
BANFIELD: And then if you go up from there, that is where Justin was caught. But if you go down, the first sighting of both of the other guys
was that bottom of the v.
RODERICK: Right.
BANFIELD: Then, 30 miles later and almost 24 hours later, they go up. They go up northwest, and are seen in that direction. Does this make any
sense to you as a marshal? Would you see a pattern there that would help you in any way track them?
RODERICK: Yes, it does. I mean, I think, the first thing you got to look at is OK, what associations what, relatives, what friends do they have in
that particular area. So you would start keying on those individuals right away, but I mean, they very well are probably listening to radio, TV, and
getting information from those media sources to figure out exactly where law enforcement is concentrating their efforts. So, I think, because we`re
a few days out now from the actual escape, you know, it`s very difficult to stay out for an extended period of time.
BANFIELD: Yes.
RODERICK: I`m sure at this point in time they`ve changed their clothes.
BANFIELD: Well, I can tell you this, that first sighting, that first sighting that, you know, was outside the County Jail, you go down to the
bottom, the first sight they were wearing, they were walking along a route, wearing khaki shorts, and they were shirtless. Almost a full day later,
they were apparently two men again sighted. They think there was a home break-in, that the fugitives may be involved. And Ashleigh Merchant, if
you could jump in here, I couldn`t help, but notice one of these guys, Johnny Tipton, who is still on the run, 61 years old, he was only in for
theft. Lottery tickets!
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.
BANFIELD: I mean, this guy, how long could he go away for, now if they catch him? They`re going to add, you know, busting out to his rap sheet.
MERCHANT: Right, yes, exactly, Ashleigh. So he is now got these theft charges, but he also got escape charges. He could get up to seven years on
top of whatever he gets for these theft charges. Because in Illinois, it`s a class 2 felony, and you can get three to seven years on top of your
sentence for an escape. Plus, they can use this as evidence showing that he had a consciousness of guilt. So if they`re trying him on the theft
charge, and the other gentleman, who has got the murder charge, if they`re trying him, they can use the evidence that he fled, that he escaped, in
order to prove him guilty on those charges.
BANFIELD: What an idiot. I mean, honestly, what an idiot. He is up on theft charges and he does this. God forbid he does anything else while on
the run. Wow. Art Roderick, thank you.
RODERICK: Thanks, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Len Wells, thank you as well. Ashleigh Merchant, I am going to ask you to stick around, I need that legal mind for a couple more things.
As if three escaped inmates in Illinois isn`t enough, I want to take you now to New Mexico, three more, three more inmates made a break for it, but
they were doing time for a whole buffet of charges, including battery and drug trafficking and child abuse and identity theft, yada, yada, yada, but
according to the police, they somehow were able to walk right out the jail house door on Friday in white t-shirts, boxer shorts and doo rags.
And you see this lady? Well, that may be seem like the impossible, they say she gave them a helping hand. Friendly female officer Serena Dodson.
And they arrested her in Texas. A hundred miles south of the jail. And they`ve charged Serena, Officer Serena with aiding a prisoner to escape. A
favor with a pretty hefty price tag, because she could go from guard to inmate once all is said and done here. And if that sounds familiar, it
should.
Because Joyce Mitchell went through this same circus. You remember her in New York? The corrections officer who helped two inmates escape their
correctional facility back in 2015? This thing sparked a three-week-long manhunt that ended with one of the inmates shot to death out there in the
wild and the other one back behind bars after being shot as well. And Joyce is also behind bars. She was sentenced to up to seven years in jail.
And she has been denied parole two times, not to mentioned, she was ordered to pay about $80,000 in restitution, which is hard to do when you probably
not getting your guard job back at the jail where you used to work.
Dennis Dunn, that guy is facing some incredibly serious charges, because he was arrested for holding a woman captive in a shed in his backyard. And
not just the shed, a hole that he dug beneath it. He said he was trying to protect her from being caught up in a prostitution ring. Everybody else is
saying, what on earth are you talking about? I`m going to ask his attorney next.
[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: At midnight on a Wednesday, most people are home in bed. And that is where Jennifer Elliott`s mom said she expected to find her 31-year-
old daughter last year, but Jennifer was nowhere to be seen. And yet Jennifer`s young son was home without his mom.
[18:20:06] So, grandma went looking for her. And thankfully, Jennifer wasn`t far, but the situation she was in, could not have been more
terrifying. More terrifying than any nightmare she could possibly had in her own bed. Because right around 4:00 in the morning, that 31-year-old
mother was found next door, trapped in her neighbor`s shed, barely able to make audible sounds, because she was in a pit below ground, where she says
that neighbor imprisoned her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNIFER ELLIOTT, KIDNAP VICTIM: I just remember going outside to smoke a cigarette, and after that, I do not recall, until I was in the shed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember being in the shed?
ELLIOTT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And were you alone?
ELLIOTT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was in there with you?
ELLIOTT: Dennis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you trying to get away from him?
ELLIOTT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember him saying anything to you?
ELLIOTT: That I was not going to go anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he tell you that you were his now?
ELLIOTT: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: 46-year-old Dennis Dunn, was arrested that very morning and was charged with kidnapping Jennifer, but according to court documents, he says
he was trying to protect her from a neighborhood prostitution ring. The trouble is, people in that neighborhood are saying, what prostitution ring?
And Jennifer says, Dunn started hurting her long before he put her in that pit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLIOTT: The threats that he would make, he would call me a piece of --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can say it.
ELLIOTT: A piece of shit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And would he do this in person or over the phone?
ELLIOTT: Both.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you make a report of this behavior?
ELLIOTT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did it stop?
ELLIOTT: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: For his part, Mr. Dunn says that they were in a romantic relationship, but Jennifer insists that was not the case. She did know
him, they were friends, she says. And apparently that wasn`t her neighbor`s only delusion, as the local police can attest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT REINBOLT, CHIEF, BIANCHESTER POLICE DEPARTMENT: He was hearing voices. He is out on his front lawn with a gun in his hand. I mean all
those things. I`m not Sigmund Freud, but all those things to me should point to the fact that he is a danger to others -- and I just don`t
understand how is it any more -- how is it more humane to let somebody like that out in the community without any treatment, apparently, or with
limited treatment, than to keep them someplace where they can be cared for? I just don`t understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, now Mr. Dunn is fighting the kidnapping charge, he is pleading not guilty by reason of insanity. And he is fighting a judge`s
recent ruling that even found him competent enough to be in a trial in the first place.
Joining me now, Melissa Neely, anchor and reporter with 700 WLW radio. Also James Hartke, he is Dennis Dunn`s attorney. And defense attorney,
Ashleigh Merchant remains with me.
OK, Melissa, let me begin with you. What is he like in the proceedings? Because often times when we have people who are claiming that they are
incompetent to start with, that they shouldn`t even be in a courtroom in the first place, or after the fact insanity. They`re almost drooling or at
least there are some visible notion that we`re really struggling to keep it together. What`s he been like?
MELISSA NEELY, ANCHOR/REPORTER 700 WLW: Well, he is not drooling and he seems to be keeping it fairly low key, but he has -- the neighbors in that
neighborhood have called police several times on reports of him with a pistol in his front yard and he is been going around pounding on windows in
the neighborhood and just really strange behavior, or what they`re dictating as strange behavior.
BANFIELD: So I want to play a little bit of the pretrial hearings, because this has always been so fascinating in this case. When this victim
actually comes forward, walks into a packed courtroom, has to come face-to- face with the man who is her alleged kidnapper and former neighbor, and has to tell the story. It`s a very, very frightening thing to do that on the
stand, and it is extraordinarily frightening when you`ve been through with the kind of trauma that Jennifer Elliott has. So here`s Jennifer talking a
little bit about what happened when she was first put in the shed. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLIOTT: I just remember he said, you`re mine. When he closed the shed door, he did say, I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:25:00] BANFIELD: So as the questioning continued, clearly what the prosecutor was trying to elicit was whether she thought this was something
that was going to end, or whether she thought she was going to end, have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think was going to happen to you?
ELLIOTT: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You thought you were going to die? Have you ever been that terrified in your life?
ELLIOTT: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Melissa, just to be clear, any idea what Dennis Dunn is doing in this courtroom as she is, you know, struggling to recount the most
horrific moment in her life?
NEELY: Obviously, I don`t know that we can tell what`s really going through his mind. His lawyer says he has schizoaffective disorder. And
thought that he was protecting her from some imaginary prostitution ring which we know, of course, doesn`t exist. So I find him a very hard person
to read, because his behavior has been so erratic and bizarre on all accounts from people who have been in contact with him.
BANFIELD: I think this is really difficult for even the officers who responded to the scene. And one of them named Mike Keller took the stand
and talked about the rescue that night, when he actually came about Jennifer Elliott in a condition that probably nobody ever expect to find
someone in, especially when they open up the backyard shed, but here is Officer Keller in his words on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE KELLER, OFFICER, BIANCHESTER PD, RESCUED VICTIM FROM SHED: I yelled, Jennifer, if you`re in there, knock twice. I heard two distinct knocks,
and then I heard a female voice that sounded distressed. We discovered that there was a large wooden plank. We lifted up that plank, and I saw a
female crouched down into a hole at the very left corner of the shed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So anybody who would consider that -- well, let`s just say any kind of condition for a human being, no matter what you`re try to do, if
you mean harm, or if you mean goodwill, that is not the kind of space to trap someone. James Hartke, as Dennis Dunn`s attorney, I suppose the
question I have for you first is, do you believe that your client is even competent to help in his defense, or understand the circumstances he is in,
in this courtroom, which is the key that you got to know, if you`re gonna be in any kind of courtroom litigation in the first place. Is he
competent?
JAMES HARTKE, ATTORNEY FOR DENNIS DUNN: Well, in my opinion -- and thank you for allowing me to participate in this interview -- he is not competent
to stand trial. Although Judge John Rudic, the (inaudible) County found him to be competent. Judge Rudic is a very an experience jurist and he had
to decide between the two reports, from -- one a psychologist, Dr. Joy McGee and a psychiatrist Dr. James Hawkins. Dr. Hawkins found that he was
incompetent to stand trial. The standard is, that can the defendant assist me in a meaningful way with the attorney to --
BANFIELD: Yes, can he understand the charges against him? Can he aide in his defense? Those are critical in our system of justice. So one doctor
says yes, and the other says no. This is always what confuses me about criminal justice, two experts in the same profession who come to two
totally different conclusions. That said, Mr. Hartke, obviously the defense going forward is going to be that he is not guilty by reason of
insanity, but you know something.
You, as well as everybody else in this business, you know how hard that is to prevail. You have to show that he did not understand the consequences
of his actions and had a past with mental health. And quite frankly, he`d never been diagnosed. And he seemed to know that he had to secrete
Jennifer away, which would tell the average bear that he knew that something is wrong with what he was doing?
HARTKE: Not necessarily, if he thought he was helping her and he was doing good. And he was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder with paranoid
ideations, April 2nd of last year, when he was taken to Claremont County hospital psych center, because the police were called. He had a gun in his
front yard, claiming that people were breaking into his home that people were inside of his home. Police were called several times and they found
no one there. Then they took him to the hospital. Unfortunately, the state of our mental health treatment in the United States is not very good.
They released him without any follow-up or treatment or medication.
[18:30:00] BANFIELD: You have some support in what you`re saying, and that comes in the way of the chief of the police, Scott Reinbolt, who
talked a little bit about that very notion, what you just said, that he had been in and out of sort of a mental health state in which the authorities
had to be involved. Have a listen to what Chief Reinbolt said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT REINBOLT, CHIEF, BLANCHESTER POLICE DEPARTMENT: I think Dennis probably should have been in an in-patient facility. If he was in an in-
patient facility, then he wouldn`t have been able to commit this crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, that`s always fascinating. And you know what, I think that you certainly have a case, Mr. Hartke. It will be fascinating to find out
what happens. It`s heartbreaking, without question for Jennifer Elliot, having gone through what she`s gone through.
And if in fact your client is not guilty by reason of insanity, it`s heartbreaking for him as well, struggling through -- his life-long
struggle with mental illness, too. My thanks to Melissa Neely and to James Hartke. Ashleigh Merchant, you can`t go anywhere.
Five members of one family, all dead in an instant. And Daniel Greis, the man police say was drunk and caused the crash that killed the family of
five, is finally facing a trial in a case that rocked a community. So what exactly are the charges that he`s facing and why does he think it was
unfair for police to ask him any questions, especially while he was in a gurney.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: When police took Daniel Greis`s blood-alcohol level, it was just above .08. But his choice to get behind the wheel ended up being simply
catastrophic. Because during the drive home from the golf course, allegedly with alcohol and pot in his system, Mr. Greis tried to pass the car in
front of him and sped up to 96 miles an hour. And that`s when he plowed right into an oncoming car.
Inside that car was the Pollitt family, two parents and their three little kids ages 6, 8, and 9. And they were all coming home from parent-teacher
interviews at the elementary school. And every single one of them was declared dead at the scene. And every single one of them has been mourned
every day since.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIVIAN COOPER, SAMANTHA MALOHN`S GRANDMOTHER: We`ve just been living day to day. That`s the best we can do. He took out five of our family members
just from being stupid. There`s no words, you know. He`s a monster in my eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Daniel Greis faces five counts of Wanton murder. Here he is in one of his first appearances. Couldn`t make it in himself, had to come in
in the gurney. And as he recovers from his injuries and after weeks of being wheeled into court, his trial is finally getting under way today.
But the loved ones that the Pollitt family left behind might have to be patient as they wait for justice to be served because Mr. Greis is not
going down without a fight. And he might just have a defense in the police investigation of what happened.
Joining me now, Amanda Kelly. She is a staff writer at the Grant County News, and defense attorney Ashleigh Merchant is with me as well. Amanda
Kelly, what on earth could be his defense since clearly he was injured in that accident and clearly they got the blood-alcohol level. What more do
they need?
AMANDA KELLY, STAFF WRITER, GRANT COUNTY NEWS (via telephone): Hi, Ashleigh. Well, today the defense during their opening statement brought in
a third driver. His name is Jesse Phillips, and they are, quote, from what Stacey Graus, the defense attorney said --
BANFIELD: Did I just lose Amanda? Sorry, Amanda. I lost your audio for a bit, but go ahead.
KELLY (via telephone): Sorry.
BANFIELD: When this comes down to brass tacks, is he saying something about the policing that didn`t work out well for him and he thinks he`s
maybe got a loophole in court?
KELLY (via telephone): They did file a motion to suppress some statements that Mr. Greis said in the hospital on the night of the accident, but the
circuit court judge, Patricia Summe, she said that all statements Greis gave are going to be admissible in court.
BANFIELD: So he tried. He tried, but he failed. He tried to say, anything I said that night, you can`t use it against me. And the judge said, oh,
yes, we can. What was his argument? Why did he think that no one was allowed to hear what he had to say to the police that night?
KELLY: Because the defense argued that without being read his Miranda rights, the deputy sheriff that was watching over him attempted to
allegedly question him three different times without giving him his Miranda rights, which they saw as a violation of the fourth and fifth amendment,
the constitution, and the Kentucky state constitution. That was the basis for their argument and the motion for suppression.
BANFIELD: So here is another question I have for you, Amanda.
[18:40:00] When I see him wheeled into court in a gurney and it looks like he`s got some serious injuries, I don`t think that`s faking it, my guess is
that on the night of the crash, he would have had to have been pumped up with some serious meds. Maybe like painkillers. Maybe the kind of stuff
that makes you say dumb stuff. I don`t know. Is that something he brought up in this case?
KELLY: Yes, that was in the motion that I read earlier today before court started with the opening statements. Today, however, he was not on a gurney
or in a wheelchair. Those were video footage taken back in November and early January, if there was any of him in a wheelchair. Today, he sat in
front of court in a chair, in a suit, with his family sitting behind him.
BANFIELD: That`s different. Well, Tina Morgan is the mom, the mother who died in this crash, the mother of those three children. Tina Morgan is her
mother. And when she sees pictures of him in the gurney and hears about him meeting rehab, this is what she has to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TINA MORGAN, SAMANTHA MALOHN`S MOTHER: Him talking about rehab, I lost all three grandchildren. Cailie, so young. I could care less what kind of rehab
he needs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Yeah. Couple of other questions the family has as well, like the dead woman`s grandmother had a question also for Mr. Greis. This is what it
was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I would like to know where he was going in such a hurry that, you know, he hit them head on at 93 miles an hour. I don`t get that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Ashleigh Merchant, what are the odds, what are the chances that this is actually going to be reversed on appeal? Because if you are doped
up, injured and in the hospital, and you don`t get your Miranda rights, a lot of times, that is an instant suppression. In this case, the judge
saying, no, those statements are good.
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And the reasoning that the judge has is this goes to the weight, not the admissibility. What that
means is she`s going to let the jury decide. So basically, these statements come in and the jury has to determine whether or not he was doped up enough
and that they were not reliable, whether or not they were coerced by the police, whether or not the lack of Miranda factored into it.
And so whether or not they actually believe the statements and give them any weight. So the judge is just saying, you know what, we`ll let these
statements come in to the jury, but you all determine.
BANFIELD: Yeah. I smell an appeal of whatever verdict comes out, though. That`s for sure. Amanda Kelly, thank you for your reporting. Ashleigh
Merchant, I`m going to ask you to stay on if you will.
You know that feeling that you get when you see the blue flashers and you hear the woo-woo in your rear-view mirror and all of a sudden you think,
oh, god, what did I do? For a Minnesota young woman, it`s more what didn`t she do. Her traffic stop and the list of infractions that she racked up,
jaw-dropping. And next.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Sometimes when the police pull you over, you know, on the road, it`s a little frustrating to hear what you`ve done wrong, right? But just
outside of St. Paul, Minnesota, one young lady never lost her cool, despite the long list of infractions that the cop racked up against her.
The 19-year-old allegedly raced through a four-way stop sign right in front of the officer. But that was just the beginning of her problem.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Butler and Bidwell (ph). How you doing? You know why I`m stopping you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Probably because I blew through that stop sign.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Yeah. Why did you blow through that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Because I (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (voice over): So you didn`t stop because you were going too fast and eating a sandwich? So you understand how dangerous that is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK, you got your driver`s license and insurance information with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I do have my driver`s license. And yellow paper.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Do you have your yellow paper with you? So you do realize also that you`re supposed to carry your license with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Do you have your insurance card?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK. You`re batting a thousand today. How do you spell your first name? Doesn`t have her license, doesn`t have
insurance information for the car. Went through the stop sign at probably 30-plus. And she`s eating a sandwich. Born in `99. So not very old.
OK, you want to shut your vehicle off for me for a second here. Here`s the problem, you have a theft warrant right now. For the $500 bail. And then is
there any marijuana in the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Are you sure? Because I appreciate honesty. Because I can smell it coming out of here.
[18:50:00] OK, is it in the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Where is it at? OK. How much? Hand it out to me. OK. And what`s the other baggy in there? My gosh, we just keep adding crap on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I know.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Confirmed warrant. Bail, $500.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK, go ahead and step out for me. How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Nineteen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Nineteen, OK. Seems like you`re just kinda flying through life by the seat of your pants and not making real good
choices. You know what I mean? It might be a good time in your life to kinda evaluate what you`re doing. OK, come on back here for me, please.
Towards the passenger side of the squad car.
Out of the car. You did tell me, I just didn`t want to walk up on you. Why don`t you do that and we`ll leave it parked here. You keep taking stuff out
of the truck. So have you ever been cited for underage consumption or anything like that? OK.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Eek. Joining me now is Sergeant John Hinderscheid with the West St. Paul Police Department. He`s the officer in the video who made the
arrest. Sergeant, you are just so calm. I couldn`t help but notice that you said, you`re flying through life like on the seat of your pants, and not
making real good choices. Might be time to evaluate what you`re doing.
Very fatherly. It sounded like this thing could go so sideways, and it didn`t. Why do you think it didn`t go sideways?
JOHN HINDERSCHEID, SERGEANT, WEST ST. PAUL POLICE DEPARTMENT (via telephone): Well, I guess, probably my experience as a parent and the
number of years as a police officer probably helped. I just like to give people a little bit of advice and hopefully that helps them make better
choices and change the direction that they`re going.
BANFIELD: Do you think that`s why things did actually get better for this young 19-year-old? In the end, she was only charged with the marijuana
possession, stop sign violation, and the misdemeanor theft. It could have been that whole list of stuff.
HINDERSCHEID (via telephone): Yeah. You know, she was very respectful and cooperative and under the circumstances, I just didn`t feel it was
necessary to cite her for all of the violations. I picked I guess what I thought was most important and that`s what I cited her for.
BANFIELD: Here`s a big question for you, sergeant. Are you surprised that this video is the video that goes viral? Because so many other videos that
go viral are the complete opposite. An arrest, some kind of confrontation, and then all hell breaks loose.
HINDERSCHEID (via telephone): Yes, I`m surprised, I guess that the video has gone viral. I`m not exactly sure that I understand that. But I guess
it`s nice to get a video of a police officer out there doing something positive and trying to help somebody out. And 99.99 percent of us are out
there doing a good job working hard and it`s good for the public to see that side of it too.
BANFIELD: Well, I just want to tell you one thing. If I get stopped, I kinda hope you`re the guy. But then I also hope you`re not because you
really don`t miss anything.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: But you`re super-duper nice. So, thank you for doing the job that you do and for keeping us safe and keep up the good work.
HINDERSCHEID (via telephone): Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
BANFIELD: I mean it, right? He`s really good at his job which is like a blessing and a curse. OK, Massachusetts, a family made sure that the ladder
for their new pool at the backyard would be 100 percent safe, right? Child- proof.
So, it folded up, it closed. It even had a lock on it. And you think that would do the trick, right? Watch this guy. Didn`t slow him down at all. And
if you`re wondering how high he got, you`re going to have to come back after the break.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: One more thing for you tonight. With pool season upon us, this is absolutely a parent`s greatest fear, a 2-year-old, all fired up about
the new pool in the backyard, getting busy, climbing up the folded-up, locked-up pool ladder, you know, the thing you bought for safety.
It took this guy about 35 seconds for him to, yes, reach all the way up to the top before mom scoops him up. The parents had actually caught him
scaling the ladder like spiderman. So they thought it would be a good idea to videotape it. Let him do it a second time and post it to Facebook, so it
would be a sobering reminder to all of us.
[19:00:00] Don`t be so complacent, don`t take your eyes off the little ones by the pool for any reason because you might not be there to do that.
Safety smafety. Ever is next.
And the next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD (voice-over): Tonight, the Disney worker dad who disappeared years ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The only thing we really care about is the kids.
BANFIELD: But was only just reported missing and not by his wife.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Obviously brings tears to your eyes.
BANFIELD: Now his bones have been found.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Law enforcement kind of circled around the site and took off their hats and it looked like they said a prayer.
BANFIELD: Buried in the backyard. And police say that wife got remarried near what would have been his grave.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nauseating, actually. Just makes you sick at your stomach.
BANFIELD: Is it any surprise the cops say she has stopped cooperating?
The Ohio man accused of kidnapping the girl next door.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we wouldn`t have found her, she would be dead.
BANFIELD: Throwing her in a pit.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He called me a piece of (bleep).
BANFIELD: And keeping her a prisoner.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It as tight quarters back there.
BANFIELD: He claims she was once his girlfriend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, you are mine. I love you.
BANFIELD: And that he did it to protect her from dangerous criminals.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is on the front lawn with a gun in his hand.
BANFIELD: But police say he is the dangerous one.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If we wouldn`t have found her, she would be dead.
BANFIELD: And now he is the one who could end up in prison.
And the man accused of plowing into a family of five.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hit them head on at 93 miles an hour.
BANFIELD: Killing all of them on their way home from school. Cops say he was drunk. But he says they mishandled the case. How will the jury feel?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield.
Welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
People spend a lot of time and money deciding the perfect place to get married, because it`s sacred, even if it`s just your backyard. That`s
where police say Laurie Shaver decided to tie the knot in the big open space behind her Florida home.
But it`s not the pretty lawn that made her story hit the headlines. It was what was lurking below the grass, below the proverbial aisle. Because
there, not far down was husband number one. And he may just have been rolling in his grave.
Laurie was technically still married to that first husband, the father of her two kids, and a mono rail mechanic at Disney world. But 36-year-old
Michael Shaver disappeared about a year and a half before and yet no one reported him missing. When Michael`s buddy alerted the police, they came
calling. Laurie told them she hadn`t seen her husband in years. And that`s when they spotted a big, poured concrete patio outback, a nice spot
for a fire pit and some outdoor chairs and maybe even a wedding. And when the cops wanted cadaver dog to take a sniff, they say Laurie went silent.
One warrant later and shazam, human remains, unearthed under that concrete patio where that lovely backyard wedding had been.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
Shortly after they made the find, I was standing in the neighbor`s backyard, pretty close nearby watching and I did see that law enforcement
kind of circled around the site and took off their hats, and looked like they had said a prayer.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, tonight, we know why they said a prayer. Those remains belonged to Michael. The question now is, how did he get there, and did it
have anything to do with his wife`s wedding to another man? All we know right now is that police say Laurie is their only suspect in his
disappearance, but not in his death.
Joining me now, Ray Caputo, anchor and reporter with 96.5 WDBO in Orlando. Also on the phone, Curt Rule, he is a neighbor of Michael Shaver`s. And
Joseph Scott Morgan is a certified death investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville state university. And also defense attorney
Ashley Merchant is with us also.
Ray Caputo, let me begin with you. Laurie Shaver is not a suspect in any murder, even though they have a dead body, a cadaver, unearth from
underneath the concrete patio. Why is it that she is only a suspect in the disappearance? Can you put the pieces together?
[19:05:01] RAY CAPUTO, ANCHOR/REPORTER, 96.5 WDBO: Yes, Ashleigh. Thanks for having me.
I think right now, the police are just trying to dot their Is and cross their Ts and find a cause of death. Because when you look at all the
evidence right now, I mean, a lot of that evidence points to Laurie shaver having something to do with her husband, you know. There is a lot of
evidence, you know, in terms of text messages, and social media posts, and things like that, that they are just looking into. I think they`re biding
their time and trying to build a strong case against her. But everything points to right now, Laurie Shaver having something to do with this and
maybe possibly even someone else.
BANFIELD: Well, they dug up the patio. But before they dug it up, they said they noticed something unusual, like a discoloration. What else did
they notice that made them sense that it wasn`t just a nice backyard fire pit?
CAPUTO: Well, one of the lake county sheriff`s deputies that was investigating, this is really, you know, kind of ominous. He said that you
could almost notice the outline of a person underneath that freshly poured concrete. Also, there has been some speculation on a Facebook page set up
by Michael`s friends and family that says that there was concrete poured numerous times in that area. That used to be a duck pond.
You know, the sad thing is, is that Michael was building this duck pond in the backyard before he shortly went missing. That ended up being his
grave. And as like you mentioned, the spot where his wife -- you call her his wife, because they are technically still married, ended up getting so-
called married again to another guy.
BANFIELD: All right. I`m going to get to that in a minute. But first, I want to sort of point out, as we spotlight that patio. It`s weird. I
mean, it is not your typical patio that sort adjacent to the house. It`s kind of off from the house. There`s the fire pit in the middle. And
that`s the dark space in the middle of that white sort of amoeba-like shape. And there were all these nice chairs positioned around the
fireplace. But then in the end, underneath, the cadaver dogs hit and they found the body.
Ray, the body was not intact. But what did they say about sort of the condition they found his body and whether they could figure out how he
died?
CAPUTO: Well, they are still looking into that, Ashleigh. But that body has been under that concrete likely for years. And as you would imagine,
it`s heavily decomposed. So they found -- first, they found, you know, one bone and they suspended their search and went back and they dug up the rest
of, you know, Michael Shaver`s body.
But you know, really right now, that`s I think what is keeping them from charging anybody in Michael`s death, is that they are trying to figure out
a cause of death. You know, there were guns in the house. That`s been noted. Michael had one, Laurie had one. So I think right now, if I had to
guess correctly, I would have to say they are looking to see if Michael was shot, or how else she would die.
BANFIELD: To be really clear here, Ray. She is married to Michael Shaver and she says he just disappeared, but she never reported anything. And it
took like a year and a half or more before a best friend said, hey, where is Mike. And that`s when the police got involved. No one ever reported
him missing. That does sound odd.
CAPUTO: Yes, Ashleigh, because there were actually texts sent to friends, a co-worker. You know, two days after Michael was last seen at a family
outing, there was a text at work. You know, work is looking for him. Why haven`t you showed up? And there`s a text saying, don`t contact me, keep
my tools.
Months later in April of 2016, another text was sent to a friend, Michael saying, I`m dealing with a lot, you know. And then as of January 2nd, the
day after new year`s eve, there`s a picture posted on Facebook of a bunch of people drinking in a bar, almost suggesting that that`s where Michael
was for new year`s eve. But in mind hindsight, that picture was taken from a bar`s Instagram page.
BANFIELD: And it wasn`t -- and Michael wasn`t in it.
So real quickly, I want to get Curt Rule in here.
Curt, you are the neighbor. You watched as you saw this second wedding, the wedding to the second husband take place in the backyard. Was it right
there at that fire pit? Can you describe the wedding to me?
CURT RULE, NEIGHBOR OF MICHAEL SHAVER (on the phone): Yes, it was right behind the house, which that`s basically where the fire pit is. It`s
basically about 25 yards behind the house. So we just noticed they were having some sort of party or some kind of ceremony and a bunch of cars and
a bunch of people. And then, you know, it became obvious she was wearing a wedding dress, so it must have been a wedding.
BANFIELD: Did you happen to notice, Curt, if the actual ceremony took place at that concrete patio?
RULE: I didn`t really notice exactly because the vantage point -- we live out in the country, as you can see. And everybody`s on five acres. So you
know, we are five acres away. But you could just see that it was right behind the house, which if it wasn`t on the fire pit, it was right next to
it.
BANFIELD: Oh, dear Lord. It is such a creepy thought. What do you know about Laurie Shaver? What kind of person, did you get to know her? I know
in the country, you`re a ways away. But, you know, country folks are friendly.
[19:10:07] RULE: Yes. That was the odd part, when they moved in. I mean, we would wave and he would wave and he seemed like, you know, I would see
him passing going to work. And you know, we don`t try to get in people`s business, but we wave. And if, you know, they stop and talk, then we stop
and talk.
BANFIELD: Did she?
RULE: She is the kind of person that has never waved, has never smiled, never tried to be friendly. Drives a truck that the windows are blacked
out. It was peculiar from day one, let`s put it that way.
BANFIELD: And now what do you think? Knowing what the police found next door to you, that must be really creepy?
RULE: It`s extremely creepy. I mean, we have grandkids that play in our yard. And grandkids have, you know, tried to actually invite her kids to
play with him. But she`s very, very off-standish and very guarded, so.
BANFIELD: She still live there? Is she still there, Curt?
RULE: She is there like nothing ever happened.
BANFIELD: Wow. Well, I got to remind everybody, while this sounds crazy and bizarre and dead body dug up under the patio, she has not been charged
with anything. The police did say she is the number one suspect and the only suspect in the disappearance of her former husband, Michael Shaver and
she did get married. And they said it`s not a legal marriage at the time, because technically she wasn`t divorced.
Joseph Scott Morgan, jump in here with me if you can. Something strange that I saw from the police suggested regarding the remains. They said that
there was no evidence of dismemberment of Michael Shaver when they found his remains under that patio, but the body was not intact. Can you explain
that to me? And while you`re at it, tell me if there`s any hope in hell that they will find a cause of death with that kind of condition?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR (on the phone): Yes, thanks for having me, Ash.
I have to say, you know, it was kind of interesting, where they said that it almost formed the shape of a body there. That would give us an
indication that more than likely, the concrete was poured around the body. Now, as far as, is there any chance, yes, there is, particularly if there
was gunfire involved and there was a shot to the skull, yes, I think that there`s a potential here.
And one other thing we have to keep in mind and we have talked about this case before, Ashleigh, is that this individual was essentially cocooned.
So any kind of evidence that might be I might be in say like a metallic body from a weapon could potentially be in there, and any other kind of
evidence that she may have left behind there. They need to be looking at her purchasing concrete, particularly in light of the fact that there are
multiple pours here. That gives us an indication that she went back maybe multiple times.
BANFIELD: Can you describe that depression? When they said they found a depressed area of the concrete, what is it about pouring concrete over, say
a decomposing body that would change how that concrete settles?
MORGAN: Well, the body itself, just keep in mind, the body is being rendered down biologically over a period of time. So it begins to depress,
or that area will depress. The weight of the concrete is greater than the remains that are melting away beneath that layer of concrete dash.
BANFIELD: So that`s what people probably don`t think when they try the Jimmy Hoffa approach.
MORGAN: No, ma`am, they do not.
BANFIELD: They don`t think just because the concrete gets hard after a short period of time, it may not stay necessarily in that shape.
Ashleigh Merchant, real quickly, I want to reiterate because it is important. Laurie Shaver hasn`t been charged with any murder, OK. It`s
weird there`s a body under her patio.
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s weird.
BANFIELD: And she hasn`t reported her husband missing and she got married feet away from it. But at the same time, do you have spidey senses and how
the police would be going about the investigation here?
MERCHANT: Yes. Definitely, they should be looking at her new husband. I know they are not legally married, but they had a history of domestic
violence. And so, there could be some motivation by other people. They should not be narrowed in just on the wife because there`s nothing to
indicate that she committed a crime. There`s nothing to indicate a crime was committed. All they have a dead body in the backyard. So there`s not
enough to charge here and there are other people they should be looking at at this point.
BANFIELD: It such just a bizarre story.
Thank you so much. Ray Caputo, thank you to you.
Also to Joseph Scott Morgan.
And also to Curt Rule, we really appreciate you talking us about your neighbor.
Ashleigh Merchant, I`m going to ask you to stick around, if you will.
Dennis Dunn is looking at some real bad charges as his case gets under way after holding a woman in his backyard shed. He claims it was all in the
name of protecting her, but from what?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:37] BANFIELD: At midnight on a Wednesday, most people are home in bed. And that`s where Jennifer Elliot`s mom said she expected to find her
31-year-old daughter last year. But Jennifer was nowhere to be seen. And yet Jennifer`s young son was home without his mom. So grandma went looking
for her. And thankfully, Jennifer wasn`t far, but the situation she was in, could not have been more terrifying. More terrifying than any
nightmare she could have had in her own bed.
Because right around 4:00 in the morning, that 31-year-old mother was found next door, trapped in her neighbor`s shed, barely able to make audible
sounds, because she was in a pit below ground, where she says that neighbor imprisoned her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:20:25] JENNIFER ELLIOT, VICTIM: I just remember going outside to smoke a cigarette, and after that, I do not recall, until I was in the shed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember being in the shed?
ELLIOT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And were you alone?
ELLIOT: No.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who was in there with you?
ELLIOT: Dennis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you trying to get away from him?
ELLIOT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you remember him saying anything to you?
ELLIOT: That I was not going to go anywhere.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he tell you that you were his now?
ELLIOT: Yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: 46-year-old Dennis Dunn was arrested that very morning and was charged with kidnapping Jennifer. But according to court documents, he
says he was trying to protect her from a neighborhood prostitution ring. The trouble is, people in that neighborhood are saying, what prostitution
ring? And Jennifer says Dunn started hurting her long before he put her in that pit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLIOT: The threats that he would make, he would call me a piece of --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can say it.
BANFIELD: A piece of shit.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And would he do this in person or over the phone?
BANFIELD: Both.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did you make a report of this behavior?
ELLIOT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And did it stop?
BANFIELD: No.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: For his part, Mr. Dunn says that they were in a romantic relationship, but Jennifer insists that was not the case. She did know
him, they were friends, she says. And apparently that wasn`t her neighbor`s only delusion, as the local police can attest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF SCOTT REIHNBOLT, BLANCHESTER POLICE DEPARTMENT: He was hearing voices. He is out on his front lawn with a gun in his hand. I mean all
those things. I`m not Sigmund Freud, but all those things to me should point to the fact that he`s a danger to others -- and I just don`t
understand how is it any more -- how is it more humane to let somebody like that out in the community without any treatment, apparently, or with
limited treatment, than to keep them someplace where they can be cared for? I just don`t understand it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, now Mr. Dunn is fighting the kidnapping charge. He is pleading not guilty by reason of insanity. And he is fighting a judge`s
recent ruling that even found him competent enough to be in a trial in the first place.
Joining me now is Melissa Neeley, anchor and reporter with 700 WLW radio. Also James Hartke, he is Dennis Dunn`s attorney. And defense attorney
Ashleigh Merchant remains with me.
OK. Melissa, let me begin with you. What is he like in proceedings? Because oftentimes when we have people who are claiming that they are
incompetent to start with, that they shouldn`t even be in a courtroom in the first place, or after the fact insanity, they`re almost drooling, or at
least there`s some visible notion that we`re really struggling to keep it together. What`s he been like?
MELISSA NEELEY, ANCHOR AND REPORTER WITH 700 WLW (on the phone): Well, he is not drooling and he seems to be keeping it fairly low key, but he has --
the neighbors in that neighborhood have called police several times on reports of him with a pistol in his front yard and he`s been going around
pounding on windows in the neighborhood and just really strange behavior, or what they`re dictating as strange behavior.
BANFIELD: So I want to play a little bit of the pretrial hearings, because this has always been so fascinating in this case. When this victim
actually comes forward, walks into a packed courtroom, has to come face-to- face with the man who is her alleged kidnapper and former neighbor, and has to tell the story. It`s a very, very frightening thing to do that on the
stand. And it`s extraordinarily frightening when you have been through the kind of trauma that Jennifer Elliot has. So here`s Jennifer talking a
little bit about what happened when she was first put in the shed. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLIOT: I just remember he said, you are mine. When he closed the shed door, he did say, I love you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So as the questioning continued, clearly what the prosecutor was trying to elicit was whether she thought this was something that was going
to end, or whether she thought she was going to end, have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:12] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did you think was going to happen to you?
ELLIOT: I don`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You thought you were going to die? Have you ever been that terrified in your life?
ELLIOT: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, Melissa, just to be clear, any idea what Dennis Dunn is doing in this courtroom as she is, you know, struggling to recount the most
horrific moment in her life?
NEELEY: Obviously, I don`t know that we can tell what`s really going through his mind. His lawyer says he has schizoaffective disorder. And
thought that he was protecting her from some imaginary prostitution ring which we know, of course, doesn`t exist. So I find him a very hard person
to read because his behavior has been so erratic and bizarre on all accounts from people who have been in contact with him.
BANFIELD: I think this is really difficult for even the officers who responded to the scene. And one of them named Mike Keller took the stand
and talked about the rescue that night, when he actually came upon Jennifer Elliot in a condition that probably nobody ever expects to find someone in,
especially when they open up a backyard shed. But here`s officer Keller in his words on the stand.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE KELLER, BLANCHESTER PD, RESCUED VICTIM FROM SHED: I yelled, Jennifer, if you`re in there, knock twice. I heard two distinct knocks, and then I
heard a female voice that sounded distressed. We discovered that there was a large wooden plank. We lifted up that plank, and I saw a female crouched
down into a hole at the very left corner of the shed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So anybody who would consider that -- well, let`s just say any kind of condition for a human being, no matter what you`re try -- trying to
do, if you mean harm, or if you mean good will, that is not the kind of space to trap someone.
James Hartke, as Dennis Dunn`s attorney, I suppose the question I have for you first is, do you believe that your client is even competent to help in
his defense, or understand the circumstances he`s in, in that courtroom? Which is the key that you got to know, if you`re going be in any kind of
courtroom litigation in the first place. Is he competent?
JAMES HARTKE, ATTORNEY FOR DENNIS Dunn (on the phone): In my opinion -- and thank you for allowing me to participate in this interview -- he`s not
competent to stand trial. Although Judge John Rudduck, Clinton county, found him to be competent. Judge Rudduck is a very experienced jurist and
he had to decide between the two reports from one, a psychologist, Dr. Joy McGee, and a psychiatrist, Dr. James Hawkins. Dr. Hawkins found he was
incompetent to stand trial. The standard is, can the defendant assist me in a meaningful way with the attorney to --
BANFIELD: Yes, can he understand the charges against him? Can he aid in his defense? Those are critical in our system of justice. So one doctor
says yes, and the other says no. This is always what confuses me about criminal justice, two experts in the same profession who come to two
totally different conclusions.
That said, Mr. Hartke, obviously the defense going forward is going to be that he`s not guilty by reason of insanity. But you know something, as
well as everybody else in this business, you know how hard that is to prevail. You have to show that he did not understand the consequences of
his actions and had a past with mental health. And quite frankly, he`d never been diagnosed. He seemed to know he had to secrete Jennifer away,
which would tell the average bear that he knew what he was doing was wrong?
HARTKE: Not necessarily if he thought he was helping her and doing good. And he was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder with paranoid ideations
April 2nd of last year, when he was taken to Claremont County hospital psych center because police were called. He had a gun in his front yard,
claiming that people were breaking into his home. That people were inside of his home. Police were called several times and they found no one there.
And then they took him to the hospital. Unfortunately, the state of our mental health treatment in the United States is not very good. They
released him without any follow-up or treatment or medication.
You have some support in what you`re saying, and that comes in the way of the chief of the police, Scott Reihnbolt, who talked about that notion,
what you just said, that he had been in and out of sort of a mental health state in which the authorities had to be involved. Have a listen to what
the chief Reihnbolt said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:30:10] REIHNBOLT: I think Dennis probably should have been in an inflation facility. If he was in an in-patient then he wouldn`t have been
able to commit this crime.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Well, that`s always fascinating. And you know what, I think that you`ve certainly have a case, Mr. Hartke. It will be fascinating to
find out what happens. It`s heart-breaking, without question for Jennifer Elliot, having gone through what she`s gone through. And if, in fact, your
client is not guilty by reason of insanity, it`s heart-breaking for him as well struggling through his life-long struggle with mental illness, too.
My thanks to Melissa Neeley (ph) and to James Hartke (ph). Ashleigh Merchant, you can`t go anywhere.
Five members of one family, all dead in an instant. And Daniel Greis, the man police say was drunk and caused the crash that killed the family of
five, is finally facing a trial in a case that rocked a community. So, what exactly are the charges that he`s facing and why does he think it was
unfair for police to ask him any questions, especially while he was in a gurney.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:36:18] BANFIELD: When police took Daniel Greis`s blood-alcohol level, it was just above 0.08. But his choice to get behind the wheel ended up
being simply catastrophic. Because during the drive home from the golf course, allegedly with alcohol and pot in his system, Mr. Greis tried to
pass the car in front of him and sped up to 96 miles an hour. And that`s when he plowed right into an oncoming car. Inside that car was the Pollitt
family, two parents, and their three little kids, ages 6, 8, and 9. And they were all coming home from parent-teacher interviews at the elementary
school. And every single one of them was declared dead at the scene. And every single one of them has been mourned every day since.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIVIAN COOPER, SAMANTHA MALOHN`S GRANDMOTHER: We`ve just been living day to day. That`s the best we can do. He took out five of our family members
just from being stupid. There`s no words, you know. He`s a monster, in my eyes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Daniel Greis faces five counts of wanton murder. Here he is in one of his first appearances. Couldn`t make it in himself, had to come in
in the gurney. And as he recoveries from his -- recovers from his injuries and after weeks of being wheeled into court, his trial is finally getting
underway today. But the loved ones that the Pollitt family left behind might have to be patient as they wait for justice to be served because Mr.
Greis is not going down without a fight. And he might just have a defense in the police investigation of what happened.
Joining me now, Amanda Kelly, she`s a staff writer at the Grant County News, and Defense Attorney Ashleigh Merchant is with me as well. Amanda
Kelly, what on earth could be his defense since clearly he was injured in that accident and clearly they got the blood-alcohol level. What more do
they need?
AMANDA KELLY, STAFF WRITER, GRANT COUNTY NEWS (via telephone): Hi, Ashleigh. Well, today, the defense, during their opening statement,
brought in a third driver. His name is Jesse Phillips, and they are, quote, from what Stacey Graus, the defense attorney said --
BANFIELD: Did I just lose Amanda?
KELLY: He was the --
BANFIELD: Oops, sorry, Amanda, I lost your audio for a bit, but go ahead.
KELLY: Sorry.
BANFIELD: Yes, what`s the -- what are -- when this comes down to brass tacks, is he saying something about the policing that didn`t work out well
for him and he thinks he`s maybe got a loophole in court?
KELLY: They did file a motion to suppress some statements that Mr. Greis said in the hospital on the night of the accident. But the Circuit Court
Judge Patricia Summe, she said that all statements Greis gave are going to be admissible in court. So, there`s another --
BANFIELD: So, he tried -- he tried but he failed. He tried to say anything I said that night, you can`t use it against me. And the judge
said, oh, yes, we can. What was his argument? Why did he think that no one was allowed to hear what he had to say to the police that night.
KELLY: Because the defense argued that without being read his Miranda Rights, the deputy sheriff that was watching over him attempted to
allegedly question him three different times without giving him his Miranda Rights, which they saw as a violation of the Fourth and the Fifth
Amendment, the constitution and the Kentucky State Constitution. That was the basis of their argument and the motion for suppression.
BANFIELD: So, here`s another question I have for you, Amanda, when I see him wheeled into court in a gurney and it looks like he`s got some serious
injuries, I don`t think that`s faking it. My guess is that on the night of the crash, he would have had to have been pumped up with some serious meds.
Maybe like painkillers, maybe the kind of stuff that makes you say dumb stuff. I don`t know. Is that something he brought up in this case?
[19:40:07] KELLY: Yes, that was in the motion that I read earlier today before court started with the opening statements. Today, however, he was
not on a gurney or in a wheelchair. Those were video footage taken back in November and early January, if there was any of him in a wheelchair.
Today, he sat in front of court in a chair, in a suit, with his family sitting behind him.
BANFIELD: That`s different. Well, Tina Morgan is the mom -- the mother who died in this crash. The mother of those three children. Tina Morgan
is her mother. And when she sees pictures of him in the gurney and hears about him needing rehab, this is what she has to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TINA MORGAN, SAMANTHA MALOHN`S MOTHER: (INAUDIBLE 40:41) talking about rehab and I lost all three grandchildren. Can`t believe -- so young. I
could care less what kind of rehabbing he needs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Yes. Couple of other questions the family has as well, like the dead woman`s grandmother had a question also for Mr. Greis. And this is
what it was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I would like to know where he -- you know, he was going in such a hurry that, you know, he hit them head on at 93 miles an hour. I don`t get
that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Ashleigh Merchant, what are the odds, what are the chances that this is actually going to be reversed on appeal? Because if you are doped
up, injured, and in the hospital, and you don`t get your Miranda Rights, a lot of times, that is an instant suppression. And in this case, the judge
is saying, no, those statements are good.
ASHLEIGH MERCHANT, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And the reasoning that the judge has is this goes to the weight, not the admissibility. And what that
means is she`s going to let the jury decide. So, basically, these statements come in, and the jury has to determine whether or not he was
doped up enough and that they were not reliable, whether or not they were coerced by the police, whether or not the lack of Miranda factored into it,
and so whether or not they actually believe these statements and give them any weight. So, the judge is just saying, you know what, we`ll let these
statements come in to the jury, but we`re -- you all determine.
BANFIELD: I smell an appeal of whatever verdict comes out, though. That`s for sure. Amanda Kelly, thank you for your reporting. Ashley Merchant,
I`m going to ask you to stay on if you will.
You know that feeling that you get when you see the blue flashers and you hear the woo-woo in your rear-view mirror and all of a sudden you think,
oh, God, what did I do? Well, for a Minnesota young woman, it`s more what didn`t she do. Her traffic stop and the list of infractions that she
racked up, jaw-dropping. And next.
[19:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: You know sometimes when the police pull you over, you know, on the road, it`s a little frustrating to hear what you`ve done wrong, right?
But just outside of St. Paul, Minnesota, one young lady never lost her cool despite the long list of infractions that the cop racked up against her.
The 19-year-old allegedly raced through a four-way stop sign right in front of the officer. But that was just the beginning of her problem.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DISPATCH: (INAUDIBLE)
SGT. JOHN HINDERSCHEID, WEST ST. PAUL POLICE DEPARTMENT: (INAUDIBLE) and Bidwell (ph). Hey, how you doing? You know why I`m stopping you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably because I blew through that (INAUDIBLE).
HINDERSCHEID: Yes, why did you blow through that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just because I didn`t feel like I could stop. I (INAUDIBLE) going too fast.
HINDERSCHEID: So, you didn`t stop because you were going too fast and eating a sandwich?
(CROSSTALK)
HINDERSCHEID: Yes. So, you understand how dangerous that is?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
HINDERSCHEID: OK, you got your driver`s license and insurance information with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do have my driver`s license (INAUDIBLE) and yellow paper.
HINDERSCHEID: Do you have your yellow paper with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, it`s (INAUDIBLE) (BLEEP)
HINDERSCHEID: OK. So, you do realize also that you`re supposed to carry your license with you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes.
HINDERSCHEID: Do you have your insurance card?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
HINDERSCHEID: OK. You`re batting a thousand today. How do you spell your first name? (BLEEP) (INAUDIBLE) Doesn`t have her license, doesn`t have
insurance information for the car, she went through the stop sign at probably 35 miles per hours. And she`s eating a sandwich. So --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old is she?
HINDERSCHEID: Born in 99, so --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not very old.
DISPATCH: (INAUDIBLE)
HINDERSCHEID: OK, you want to shut your vehicle off for me (BLEEP) for a second here. Here`s the problem, you have a theft warrant right now for
the $500 bail. And then, is there any marijuana in the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
HINDERSCHEID: OK. Somebody is smoking. Are you sure?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
HINDERSCHEID: Because I appreciate honesty. But -- because I can smell it coming out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
HINDERSCHEID: Do either of you guys have any?
(CROSSTALK)
HINDERSCHEID: OK, is it in the car?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
HINDERSCHEID: Where is it at? OK. How much? Hand it out to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
HINDERSCHEID: OK. And then, what`s the other (INAUDIBLE) in there? (BLEEP) (INAUDIBLE) my gosh, we just keep adding crap on.
[19:50:06] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know.
HINDERSCHEID: 26, I think.
DISPATCH: Confirmed (INAUDIBLE) any warrant. Misdemeanor, theft and (BLEEP) bail, $500.
HINDERSCHEID: (INAUDIBLE) OK, go ahead and step out for me.
DISPATCHER: (INAUDIBLE)
HINDERSCHEID: How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (BLEEP) 19.
HINDERSCHEID: 19, OK. It seems like you`re just kind of flying through life by the seat of your pants and not making real good choices, you know
what I mean? It might be a good time in your life to kind of evaluate what you`re doing. OK, come on back here for me, please. Just towards the
passenger side of the squad car. Get out of the car. You did tell me, I just didn`t want him walking up on you. So --
(CROSSTALK)
HINDERSCHEID: Yes, we can -- why don`t you do that and then we`ll leave it -- we`ll leave it parked here. OK. You keep taking stuff out of the
truck. So, have you ever been cited for underage consumption or anything like that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
HINDERSCHEID: OK. And --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Eek. Joining me now is Sergeant John Hinderscheid with the West St. Paul Police Department. He`s the officer in the video who made the
arrest. Sergeant, you are just so calm. I couldn`t help but notice that you said, "You`re flying through life like on the seat of your pants, and
not making real good choices. Might be time to evaluate what you`re doing." Very fatherly. It sounded like this thing could go so sideways,
and it didn`t. Why do you think it didn`t go sideways?
HINDERSCHEID (through telephone): Well, I guess, my -- probably my experience as a parent and the number of years as a police officer probably
helped. And I just kind of like to just give people a little bit of advice and hope that maybe that helps them make better choices and kind of change
the direction that they`re going.
BANFIELD: Do you think that`s why things did actually get better for this young 19-year-old? In the end, she was only charged with marijuana
possession, stop-sign violation, and a misdemeanor theft, it could have been that whole list of stuff.
HINDERSCHEID: Yes, I don`t -- you know, she was very respectful and cooperative, and under the circumstances, I just didn`t feel it was
necessary to, you know, to cite her for all of the violations. I picked I guess what I thought was most important and that`s what I cited her for.
BANFIELD: Here`s a big question for you, Sergeant, are you surprised that this video is the video that goes viral? Because so many other videos that
go viral are the complete opposite, an arrest, some kind of confrontation, and then all hell breaks loose.
HINDERSCHEID: Yes, I`m surprised, I guess, that the video has gone viral. I`m not exactly sure that I understand that, but I guess it`s nice to get a
video of, you know, a police officer out there doing something positive and trying to help somebody out. And 99.9 percent of us are out there doing a
good job, working hard, and it`s good for the public to see that side of it, too.
BANFIELD: Well, I just want to tell you one thing, if I get stopped, I kind of hope you`re the guy, but then I also hope you`re not, because you
really don`t miss anything, but you`re super-duper nice, so thank you for doing the job that you do and, you know, for keeping us safe and keep up
the good work.
HINDERSCHEID: Thank you.
BANFIELD: I mean it, right? Like, he`s really good at his job, which is like a blessing and a curse.
OK, Massachusetts, a family made sure that the ladder for their new pool at the backyard would be 100 percent safe, right, childproof? So, it folded
up, it closed, it even had a lock on it. And you think that would do the trick, right? Watch this guy. Didn`t slow him down at all, and if you`re
wondering how high he got, you`re going to have to come back after the break.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: I got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, and it is something that you have to see to believe. A 2-year-old baby scrambling up a closed and
locked pool ladder like a tiny, diapered Spiderman. His parents had bought this ladder and were pretty stunned when they saw how fast that toddler was
able to get to the top. It took just 35 seconds, for the record. And they thought they should post this video on Facebook as a sobering reminder to
all of us, don`t leave your little ones alone by the pool, even if you think you bought a safety ladder, because as this guy shows us, it ain`t
that safe, and he is amazing, and mom was right there. Be careful, be careful, be careful. We`ll see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00 Eastern
Time. You can listen to our show anytime, download our Podcast on Apple Podcast, iHeart Radio, Stitcher, Tune In, or wherever you get your Podcast
for your "CRIME & JUSTICE" fix. Thanks for watching, everybody. Forensic files begins right now.
END
