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Trump Defends Controversial Family Separations; Trump: Activists Tell Immigrants What To Say; Trump: Democrats Want Immigrants To Infest U.S.; China Promises To Strike Back At U.S. Tariffs. Aired 12m-1a ET

Aired June 20, 2018 - 00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JOHN VAUSE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: You are watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour, the U.S. president heads to Capitol Hill hoping to fix an immigration crisis of his own creation.

A trade war moves closer with the latest tough talks between the U.S. and China.

And another upset at the World Cup. We will recap all of the action later in the hour.

Hello and thanks for joining us. Great to have you with us. I am John Vause and this is NEWSROOM L.A.

In just the past few hours, President Trump had a chance to lead his party and end the policy of separating children from their parents at the border with Mexico, instead, after a meeting with Republican lawmakers on Capitol Hill, House members say the president gave them mixed signals on which immigration reform bill he supports.

Outrage over the family separation policy is growing even within the Republican Party. Lawmakers say the president told them the images of crying babies don't look good politically.

And his daughter, Ivanka, urged him to end the zero-tolerance policy. The White House says Mr. Trump will endorse either of two House bills and after the meeting Donald Trump did not seem bothered, he seemed up beat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We had a great meeting. These are laws that have been broken for many years, decades, but we had a great meeting. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Lucy Flores is the vice president of Public Affairs, Mitu, a digital media group geared towards empowering millennial Latinos. Lucy, good to have you with us. LUCY FLORES, VICE PRESIDENT OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS, MITU: Thanks for having me. Absolutely.

VAUSE: OK, so what is your read on what happened at that meeting between the president and lawmakers. We have this word that he's willing to sign either immigration reform bill, doesn't seem to be which one. That doesn't seem to offer a lot of hope at least in the short term for more than 2,000 children who are currently being held in detention right now.

FLORES: Correct. To be clear, I think it is really important even just based on what we heard, the statements coming out of the White House about this being a law that they are enforcing, this is the law that they have no choice in the matter is absolutely false.

And I think it is really important for media, for every opportunity we have to clarify the record on that because this is not a law that they can do nothing about. This is a new policy and if President Trump and his administration wanted to do something about it, they can end it immediately.

His Republican counterparts in Congress have said the exact same thing and everybody is pointing out the truth. And so, the fact of the matter is that he doesn't want to change this because they have already stated that they are using this as a deterrent method.

The very first time in this country under modern immigration policy that you have used such an inhumane and awful tactic to try to defer people from speaking in many cases legal claims of asylum. So, you know, the bills really in many ways are irrelevant because they could end this practice now if they wanted to.

VAUSE: Absolutely. But we also know that the president seems to be using these kids who are being held hostage as leverage if you like so that he can get this immigration reform bill through the House. It's all about bringing pressure on lawmakers especially the Democrats to do something.

So, you know, if this bill actually manages to get through, that seems to be incredibly unlikely, it will have measures which like ending the diversity lottery program, limiting family reunion.

There were also be, you know, more than $20 billion at least in one of these bills for the wall along Mexico. And for the most part, whatever goes through the House is likely, you know, essentially to make it harder for anybody who wants to immigrate to the U.S.

FLORES: That is correct and at the end of the day, there is nothing stopping him or Congress from moving forward comprehensive immigration reform. That's just it. They can do that now. They could have done that years ago, but they refuse to do so.

And to even say that destroying these families of traumatizing these children for their entire lives is a method in order to pass a bill to use them as leverage, that is just one of the most despicable things that anyone can choose to do and frankly reflects so incredibly poorly on this country. It is embarrassing and heart breaking.

VAUSE: The president on Tuesday also seemed to mock those who were coming to the U.S. seeking asylum. He said they are being coached by immigration lawyers and implied it was all a scam. Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT TRUMP: They tell these people exactly what to say. They say, say the following. They write it down. I am being harmed in my country. My country is extremely dangerous, I fear of my life. Say that. Congratulations. You'll never be removed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[00:05:07] VAUSE: So, what do you know about the people who are actually traveling thousands of miles and (inaudible) lives at risks and coming to this country for a safer better life?

FLORES: Well, that's also false because this isn't just some free pass that every single person who shows up at the border with a claim --

VAUSE: Can get approval --

FLORES: That's exactly right. It's incredibly, incredibly low and frankly, the numbers keep declining, not increasing. You also have practices right now. There are lawsuits that are pending where Customs and Customs Enforcement have actually a border patrol -- have actually prohibited access to ports of entry for people --

VAUSE: It's physically made it harder to get to the national ports.

FLORES: And sometimes not even harder, impossible because the only way that you can claim asylum is by actually entering the United States and then making your asylum claim. At this point, you have an organization, an agency that is violating U.S. law and violating U.S. international laws and U.S. treaties by denying people their rights to seek asylum.

So, this idea that it is somehow this easy thing that anybody can just show up to our border and seek asylum and get it is absolutely ludicrous and false.

VAUSE: All these people coming here they asked for asylum and they are all here. The Latino population of the United States is just over 15 million. I know it's not a monolithic group. But is there a general consensus out there of how they view this crackdown on the border and what it means for their place in the United States.

FLORES: Absolutely. I mean, this is just continued trauma after trauma and attack after attack on a community that has immigrants and people that have been here for generations. I mean, this community has been scapegoated for certainly for a long time by Republican.

But to an unprecedented degree under President Trump from the moment that he was running for president to what he is doing now, this community has been under direct attack.

And it is actually really heartening to see that not just within the Latino community but across America that you have an overwhelming majority of Americans who disagree with this policy vehemently disagree and say that that is the wrong thing for us.

And that's really heartening because it's not, of course, just limited to the Latino community, but across the board that Americans are saying this is not us. This does not represent us.

VAUSE: At the end of the day, though, it is up to the president to make the change, right?

FLORES: Absolutely.

VAUSE: OK. Lucy, thank you so much.

Well, on Tuesday, President Trump again blamed Democrats for this policy of family separations, but during a business address to a business counsel, Donald Trump said he was determined to find some kind of solution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT TRUMP: We have one chance to get it right. We might as well get it right or let's just keep it going but let's do it right. We have a chance. We want to solve this problem. We want to solve family separation. I don't want children taken away from parents.

And when you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally, which should happen, you have to take the children away. Now we don't have to prosecute them, but then we are not prosecuting them for coming in illegally.

That's not good. We want to end the border crisis by finally giving us the legal authorities and the resources to in and remove illegal immigrant families together and bring them back to their country. We have to bring them back to their country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Joining me now here in Los Angeles, political strategist, Mac Zilber, and Peter Van Voorhis, a Republican strategist. Good to see you both.

Take a closer look at what the president just said there. He said we want to solve family separation. I don't want children taken away from parents, but then in the very next sentence, he goes on to say, and when you prosecute the parents for coming in illegally, which should happen, you have to take the children away.

Now we don't have to prosecute them but then we are not prosecuting them for coming in illegally. So, Mac, in one sentence the president admits he wants to solve the problem which his administration has created. MAC ZILBER, POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Right. This has been the consistent issue with how this administration is dealing with this issue, which is half the administration, Jeff Sessions, Steven Miller, John Kelly, are saying they are doing this deliberately as a deterrent. The other half of the administration is denying that they are doing this at all lying and saying that this has been policy for 20 years.

And Donald Trump is doing both. He has taken both sides of this internal debate within this administration between defending the important policy and denying that it is exist. It is absolutely mind blowing.

VAUSE: There is a tweet from "Bloomberg's" (inaudible) which sum up the various explanations we've heard coming out of the White House, "Donald Trump, Democrats (inaudible) John Kelly, the chief of staff, it is a deterrent. Steven Miller, the White House adviser, "We did it and we are proud." Kellyanne Conway, White House strategist, "We did it and we are not proud." Jeff Sessions, the attorney general, it sends a message.

[00:10:07] Sarah Sanders, the White House press secretary, "It is biblical" and Kirstjen Nielsen, the secretary of Homeland Security, "It's not a policy." Peter, which one is this and why won't anyone in this administration own this

PETER VAN VOORHIS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Sure. So, I really think the administration's bashing on this has been inconsistent. I think that's a problem, but finally after, you know, the media circus that we have around on this. I think them and the rest of the Republicans are going to get their act together on this.

But the Democrats have to come too. I think ultimately the Democrats led by Chuck Schumer, they are going -- and they are trying to use these children as political pawns because they want to blame the Republicans and media for this.

The Republicans are simply enforcing the law. They are in a prisoner's dilemma. They can either enforce the laws --

VAUSE: Which law says that children should be taken away from their moms and dads?

VAN VOORHIS: That's not the law. The law specifically is that if you come into this country illegally, that is a crime. That's a misdemeanor if you come in after that's a felony. Ultimately, we are not going to put children in adult detention centers. I think Ted Cruz style bill or something that they put out in the House is a smart way to go for it. You can't just reverse on the executive level, put a band-aid on it. It's a much bigger problem that shouldn't be happening.

VAUSE: You see the problem is that those laws were already there, but a policy within the Obama administration, and Bush administration, Clinton administration that there was flexibility. That, you know, kids would not be put in detention centers. But there was a choice made by this administration to do that. We heard the president meeting with Republican lawmakers on Tuesday night, you know, homing for a solution here. According to CNN's reporting some lawmakers emerged from the hour-long meeting adamant that Trump had endorsed a compromise measure that would allow families to remain together.

But others were more equivocal saying Trump only expresses support for any bill that arrives on his desk either the compromise plan or a more conservative version whose prospects appear dim.

Mac, the president's commitment on either bill, first of all, what does say about, you know, the guy who forces crisis in the first place, also seems to be good news for Republican leadership given how badly Donald Trump does when he wants to get a bill through the House as opposed to killing a bill. Not very good at making it happen, very good at killing them.

ZILBER: Yes, I mean, the only thing scarier than a hostage taker, is a hostage taker that doesn't know what he wants, and that's what is terrifying. Donald Trump has taken thousands of kids hostage, snatching them from their parent's arm in many cases because he wants unmentioned policy concessions.

He then won't name what those policy concessions are and then when the Republicans and the Democrats in Congress try to put some kind of bill together to reunite these kids with their families, Donald Trump is consistently scuttling the legislative process. I mean, it's frankly quite terrifying.

VAUSE: So, Peter, what does the president want because he hasn't actually spelled it out?

VAN VOORHIS: Sure. I think the president wants an enforcement for his immigration policy. He doesn't want comprehensive immigration reform that gives amnesty, but he has been open to, you know, basically expanding the Dream Act for the DREAMers much more than the Obama originally did.

But I think what's really important in this is, this is about the failure of the Obama-era catch and release policy, which encouraged human smuggling. It encouraged criminals to come in. I think most of these people coming in are very well-meaning and I certainly feel for them.

But at the end of the day, these drug cartels are smart. They are willing to do that and a lot of these kids coming in, they are not accompanied by their parents. We have a better way to do this.

VAUSE: Some of the very nice people as well. Has the outrage over family separation grows even on the right? We are hearing the president using more extreme language like this tweet, Democrats are the problem. They don't care about crime and want illegal immigrants, no matter how bad they may be, to pour into and infest our country like MS-13. They can't win on their terrible policy, so they view them as potential voters. Mac, there's a lot in there, but clearly referring to immigrants, you know, as pest or vermin infesting the country. It's a way of dehumanizing them.

ZILBER: Yes, it is terrible language. It's dehumanizing language and it's also a part of a continuing effort to gaslight the nation by conflating the illegal immigration, undocumented immigration with crime.

The reality is that undocumented immigrants are about a third as likely to be incarcerated as native-born citizens and by every metric, undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than people who are already here. Furthermore, cities that have more immigration have seen their crime levels decrease more than the rest of the country. It is a complete scare tactic and now Trump is using it go to wreak unimaginable havoc on people's lives.

VAUSE: And so, Peter, where is the evidence that, you know, for Donald Trump to continue to make this claim that, you know, an increase in immigration leads to an increase in crime?

VAN VOORHIS: I don't personally think that an increase in immigration leads --

VAUSE: That is nice, but the president obviously does and it's not true.

VAN VOORHIS: Sure. I think what he's saying is having an open border, a left-wing style open border policy like Obama did, that leads to criminals coming? That doesn't mean that most of these people are criminals --

VAUSE: He is saying -- it's not like some time in the future there could be, no, he is saying it is a direct link.

VAN VOORHIS: I think he uses a lot of political rhetoric on this. I am not going to necessarily agree with the rhetoric used, but at the end of the day, I believe in borders. I believe in a Diane Feinstein and Bill Clinton style 1990 policy. You know, I think the Republicans should get a little bit better on messaging, but ultimately, I think, you know, the substance of it is the same.

[00:15:07] VAUSE: OK, well, the president was also wrong about crime in Germany claiming an increase in immigration there has led to a 10 percent rise in crime. It is not the first time Donald Trump has had a go at the German chancellor, Angela Merkel, but this time the president of the E.U. Commission seemed to have had enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN-CLAUDE JUNCKER, PRESIDENT, E.U. COMMISSION (through translator): This massive meddling in German domestic politics, I feel that we have to strongly condemn it. Ms. Merkel won't be replaced by Donald Trump. If she is replaced at all, which would not be desirable but by German voters, not by Mr. Trump. Mr. Trump may govern the United States, he does not govern Europe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JONES: Mac, at this point of his presidency, a fight over crime statistics in Germany seems to be the last thing Donald Trump should start, right?

ZILBER: Right. I mean, the reality is that Donald Trump has thousands of documented lies during his time in the public eye. I mean, frankly, this one hardly seems to register relative to some -- (inaudible).

VAUSE: Peter, why light another fire?

VAN VOORHIS: You know, I think that the president, ultimately, he's tired of the United States not being first on the world stage, and I can understand that. I think a lot of Trump voters feel that United States was weak. They are weak on foreign policy and he feels the need to essentially go out and call out things with our allies or enemies that he sees is a problem.

VAUSE: First of all, it is wrong, and secondly, you know, what does Germany's immigration issues have to do domestically with the U.S. Some new reporting from CNN about Donald Trump's former personal lawyer, fixer and bag man, Michael Cohen, has signaled to friends that he is willing to give investigators information on the president if that is what they are looking for and planning on hiring a new lawyer to handle possible indictment from federal prosecutors.

You know a lot of things about the president and he's not averse to talking in the right situation. One of Cohen's New York friends who is in touch with him told CNN. If they want information on Trump, he is willing to give it.

So, Mac, apparently, Cohen is disappointed the president hasn't covered his legal fees according to the "Wall Street Journal," he feels abandoned. This seems to be either a public message to Donald Trump or, you know, that he wants some help here or Cohen is generally inching very close to flipping.

ZILBER: Yes, well, I think that somebody very clearly wants a pardon. I mean, that language sound an awful like Michael Cohen wording. I know it comes from an anonymous source. But, you know, I think the reality is that Michael Cohen knows a lot. He was Trump's fixer for many years.

And if he flips that is very bad news for Donald Trump. I think Trump has tried to repeatedly signal that he'd be willing to give a pardon under the right circumstances and pretty soon the rubber is going to start hitting the road on a lot of these pardons.

VAUSE: And Peter, very quickly, well, I never understood given this huge legal fees that Michael Cohen is facing and he's closest to the president, Donald Trump is a billionaire, why didn't he pony up for the legal fees and avoid all of this in the first place? VAN VOORHIS: It is kind of interesting. It seems like he would certainly want to take care of that. As far as Cohen flipping, you know, this is saying that he is going to cooperate with the investigation and ultimately, if there is a crime committed, I certainly support prosecution to do the fullest extent.

I don't think we are going to find that. I think with a lot of Trump associates you could find that, but I don't think personally the president has (inaudible) in any of this stuff, you know, with the special counsel in that investigation.

VAUSE: Why am I surprised? Everyone is waiting to find out what Robert Mueller actually has. Good to see you both. Thank you.

OK, money piece is coming here tonight. U.S. ambassador has some harsh words for the U.N.'s Human Rights Council. We'll tell you why the U.S. is pulling out of the group, which Nikki Haley calls a cesspool of political bias.

Plus, fears of a full-blown trade war has rattled U.S. stock market. The U.S. is (inaudible) China. We're live to Beijing after the break.

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[00:21:24]

VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. The U.S. is withdrawing from the U.N. Human Rights Council. The U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. announced the move at the State Department with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo by her side. Nikki Haley called the council a cesspool of political bias specifically against Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I want to make it crystal clear, this step is not a retreat from human rights commitment. On the contrary, we take this step because our commitment does not allow us to remain a part of a hypocritical and self-serving organization that make a mockery of human rights.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Several rights and aids groups have written to Mike Pompeo warning him that the withdrawal will make it more difficult to advance human rights around the world.

Great tensions between the United States and China are escalating in what is threatening to become an all-out trade war. China has promised to strike back hard if the Trump administration goes ahead of additional tariffs on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods.

The White House has been furious, though, since Beijing said it would retaliate for the first round of tariffs. The tensions have spooked U.S. markets as neither side shows any sign of backing down sinking more than 400 points. In Tuesday's early trading, the Dow crawled back, but it's still down almost 300 by the close. Its six-day losing streak is its longest since March of last year. Right now, as a mix result across Asia markets, Nikkei is down more than three and a quarter percent. Shanghai is down by three and three quarters. Nikkei is down by one and three quarters and Seoul Kospi down by 1.5 percent.

CNN's Nic Robertson following this story for us from Beijing. Nic, we are at this point now where we have threats, counter threats and promises of action. At what point do we actually see something happen?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the first, sort of $50 billion tariffs, that first round that President Trump has authorized and China has responded to goes into effect from the U.S. side on the 6th of July, as far as 200 billion goes, that would take some time to begin to put that into effect as a lot of details have to worked out in the interim.

But in terms of when do we see the effects, and as you say, we are seeing the effect already, and that is in business sentiment. Clearly, China is only, only receiving or only rather, you know, its business with the United States only receiving $130 billion worth of goods.

So, for it to respond quantitatively and qualitatively, which is what it says it will do to this $200 billion threat that tariff threat that President Trump is talking about now. They would have to look at other areas to hit U.S. businesses and other than those direct tariffs and that can be on services for example, education, tourism, it could be on the sentiment on the Chinese market here.

This was one way that they tackled their spat last year with South Korea whereby they discourage people from going to, you know, Chinese people going on tourism trips to South Korea and it had an impact on the hotels there. That was very effective.

And they could also make it, if you will, harder for U.S. companies to do business inside China by putting restrictions on them, say, additional safety checks that many people might consider unnecessary.

So, these source of measures are available and when you introduce sort of measures like that, that don't have round numbers to them, can't be easily quantified at this stage, that is where you begin to develop the business sentiment.

[00:25:06] That says, hold on, we can't really foresee the future here. Things are beginning to look unsettled and unpredictable. So the effect, what happened and is happening as we are seeing even before you begin to put into place that additional second round of tariffs that President Trump is talking about -- John.

VAUSE: Also, in Beijing, another issue with Kim Jong-un, the North Korean leader visit Beijing for the third time, I mean, face to face with Xi Jinping. Any details coming out of the meeting? ROBERTSON: Sure, the talk is about closer cooperation, and about an improvement of communications and improvement of relations. Those are the statements that are coming from the North Korean side.

When you look as well as this from the perspective of Kim Jong-un, the last couple of times has travel here in secret by train, back in March, only announced when he got back to Pyongyang after the visit. This time the cameras waited to see his motorcade roll through from the airport to his meeting with Xi Jinping, a state banquet as well last night.

So clearly, he feels a lot more confident about making these overseas journeys and the message he gets from China here, in response to the summit from President Trump a week ago, is one that to his liking because he's looking for a way out of these tough economic sanctions he is under.

And China has already indicated part of the U.N. sanctions say if North Korea cooperates there could be sanctions relief. So, in China, Xi Jinping, he has an ally and a way to alleviate that economic pressure, let more money into his country. That relationship is key and being here again just makes that more solid for him -- John.

VAUSE: OK. Nic, thank you. Nic Robertson there for us in Beijing.

Well, the images of children separated from their parents at the U.S. border are heart breaking, but a very different story is being told on just one U.S. network.

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VAUSE: Welcome back, everybody. You're watching CNN NEWSROOM live from Los Angeles. I am John Vause with the headlines this hour.

In Indonesia, the number of people missing from a ferry that capsized on Lake Toba on Monday has increased to 186. Authorities have put the number of missing at 39 earlier this week. Three bodies have been recovered so far. The ferry sank during poor weather conditions.

Republicans are leaning on President Trump to end his administration's policy of separating immigrant children from their parents at the border of Mexico. He met with House leaders on Tuesday, but some say they are not entirely clear on what legislation the president would support --

[00:30:00]

Beijing has promised to strike back if the U.S. slaps $200 billion in new tariffs on Chinese goods. President Trump threatened the additional measures after Beijing said it would match the first round of U.S. tariffs.

The escalated trade tensions drove down U.S. stocks Tuesday as neither side appears ready to back down.

As the outrage over the Trump-Sessions practice of family separation on the southern border continues to grow, reporters and news organizations are increasingly calling out the Administration for the harsh treatment of young children and challenging brazenly untrue statements made by the President and White House officials. But of course, there's always one exception.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA INGRAM, FOX NEWS HOST: Since more illegal immigrants are rushing the border, more kids are being separated from their parents and temporarily housed in what are essentially summer camps.

ANN COULTER, AMERICAN COMMENTATOR: These child actors weeping and crying on all the other networks 24/7 right now. Do not fall for it Mr. President.

TUCKER CARLSON, AMERICAN COMMENTATOR: This is one of those moments that tell you everything about our ruling class. They care far more about foreigners than about their own people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: But now that unquestioning loyalty from Fox News may end up hurting the channels parent company, 21st Century Fox. Seth McFarlane, creator of hit shows on Fox including "Family Guy," tweeted his anger over the weekend after a Fox News anchor told U.S. to believe the opposite of what they see on other news organizations.

"This is fringe shit, and it's business like this that makes me embarrassed to work for this company."

On Tuesday, Steve Levitan, co-creator of the sitcom "Modern Family" announced he was leaving Fox Studios, tweeting this, Let me officially join Seth McFarlane in saying I'm disgusted to work at a company that has anything whatsoever to do with Fox News. This bull -- hockey, is the opposite of what Modern Family stands for.

Director Paul Feig has publicly criticized Fox News for it's coverage, while producer Judd Apatow has called on high profile talent on the entertainment side of Fox to protest as well.

Joining me now from Seal Beach in California, "Los Angeles Times" columnist Michael Hiltzik. It's been awhile Michael. Good to see you.

[00:35:00] MICHAEL HILTZIK, COLUMNIST: Good to be back.

VAUSE: Okay Michael, we've asked this question before, it's worth asking again. Is this the moment when Fox News has gone too far?

HILTZIK: Well, I think this is a very interesting moment for Fox News and it's viewers, because this a case where the distance between what Fox News is recording and the way it's presenting reality and the reality is really I think hitting it's viewers in the face.

The images, the sounds, the facts of what's going on, on the border that these are all inescapable (inaudible). And for Fox News personalities to continue with this sedulous parodying of the administration mind, I think is making them look stupid and dishonest and in a way that I think their viewers can't escape.

VAUSE: Here's part of a report from NBC News. Mat Baxter, Global CEO of Initiative Ad Agency said, the criticism is starting to turn off advertisers from Fox News, but also 21st Century Fox. He said, a lot of people are embarrassed to be associated with the brand because of Fox News.

He described the relationship between Fox TV partners and Fox News as a commercial and corporate challenge. So, will any decision on the editorial direction of Fox, coming from the Murdochs ultimately come down to money?

HILTZIK: Well I think you have to keep in mind that a lot of what we have to think of as Fox and that includes 21st Century Fox the movie studio and the television studio, the production side, those are going to be separated very soon. They -- 21st Century Fox, the TV studio, the movie studio aren't -- they are going to be owned either by Disney or maybe Comcast in very short order.

But what's going to be left with Fox News and that operation is still going to be 17 affiliate stations, 17 stations that Fox owns and will continue to own and scores of affiliate stations.

I think those are going to be vulnerable because you are going to find producers of television shows saying, we don't want to be on these Fox stations and you may find advertisers saying, we don't to advertise on those stations.

So, Paul Feig and his colleagues in the entertainment industry, they're going to be separated. They're going to be producing and making shows and movies for an operation that's no longer affiliated with Fox News, but they could face the choice of whether their product should be shown on all of these Fox television stations. There's a lot of money at stake here for Fox, and I think that is also going to force -- or it may force Fox News to get real.

VAUSE: For all news organizations out there not called Fox, the President ranked up the attacks on Tuesday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fake news media back there doesn't talk about that.

(LAUGHTER)

TRUMP: They're fake. They are helping -- they are helping these smugglers and these traffickers like nobody would believe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: And we've seen, the President has every intention to continue, not just with the untruthful statements, but statements which are beyond bizarre. HILTZIK: Well, they are beyond bizarre and I think what we may be seeing here and we predicted that this is -- has been happening or it would happen, many times before, is that President Trump is addressing an ever shrinking base and an ever shrinking audience that believes what he says.

And this is a case now, this could be -- we've said this before, so I don't want to make too much of it, but this could be the infliction point that many people have been expecting when the distance between the reality that's out there and the Trump reality really becomes clear to a much, much greater audience. That's very dangerous for Trump, but it may finally be good for democracy.

VAUSE: Okay. And finally here at Fox, filmmakers have gone to incredible lengths to carry water for the President like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE DOOCY, FOX ANCHOR: These are from border patrol. This is of a former warehouse that has been converted to a facility and while some have likened it to them, to concentration camps or cages, you do see that they have those thermal blankets. You do see some fencing, but keep in mind, some have referred to them as cages, but keep in mind this is a great big warehouse facility where they built walls out of chain link fences.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAUSE: Steven Colbert of "The Late Show" tweeted that basically, no one on the right side of history has ever had to nitpick the definition of a cage. So, when he history of this particular chapter of America is actually written, what place will Fox News have?

HILTZIK: Well, I wouldn't want to be the footnote in history that Fox is heading for. Look, I have an editor who when he hears something like this his reactions is, let the jackass' bray, because they are going to bray themselves out of existence.

When Steve Doocy says these sorts of things and talks about how, it isn't so bad. That have thermal blankets and we have (inaudible) of these children lying on these blankets, isolated, screaming for their mothers and fathers, I think we begin to see how false this report really is and that can't be good for Fox. It can't be good for Trump. Let's hope that it's not bad for the country.

VAUSE: Yes. Michael, thanks so much. Good to see you.

Well the world will mark World Refugee Day on Wednesday, with the number of displaced people at a record high. More details on that when we return.

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VAUSE: Well according to the U.N., a record 68.5 million people have been displaced from their homes across the world leaving so many struggling to just survive. But CNN's Sema Abbadelaze (ph) met one Somali woman who is defying the odds.

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RAMLA ALI: You just want to train harder so you can win another fight and be better than what you were yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ramla's sessions are fierce, her drills relentless and the afternoons are even punchier (ph).

ALI: It's a little bit of an addiction, I don't - - I can't explain it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 27-year-old is a champion boxer; winning the British title in 2016. The glory of her victories in the U.K. are a far cry from her birth place; Somali.

ALI: The reason why we came here is because my eldest brother died in the war so he was struck by a grenade as he played outside the house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ali's family was forced to flee the country's civil war when she was just two years old.

ALI: When we packed up, we went on a boat to Kenya a lot of people died along the way.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After a harrowing journey, the family found refugee status in the U.K. As a child she struggled to fit in until she started punching the bag.

ALI: Everyone is equal in boxing and you don't see yourself like that if that makes sense. You're in the ring and it's just one boxer versus another boxer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But the athlete's conservative Muslim parents pushed her to quite; saying the sport was inappropriate for a girl. She kept fighting.

ALI: I remember sneaking out; telling them I was just going to religious center for a run or I was just going to the park for a run, but really and truly I was going to train in a boxing gym.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ali has never been back to Somalia; it's too dangerous, still she dreams of becoming the country's first ever boxer; male or female to compete in the Olympics.

ALI: A lot of people accept me because I'm bringing hope to Somalia so I think that's why a lot of people are proud.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seeing their daughter sweat and spar for her homeland, Ali's parents had a change of heart and now stand in her corner.

ALI: My mom's always drilled it into us, be proud of your heritage and you know London is your home, but your first home is Somalia and more than anything it makes her proud and that's ultimately what you want just to make your parents proud.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Determined to honor and represent her homeland in the ring, even if she can never return. Sema Abbadelaze (ph), London.

VAUSE: Thank you for watching CNN Newsroom Live from Los Angeles I'm John Vause we'll have a full recap of the day's World Cup action, including a second big win by Russia coming up next on CNN World Sports with Patrick Snell.

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VAUSE: You're watching CNN Newsroom live from Los Angeles. Ahead this hour, Donald Trump says he 1,000 percent behind immigration reform which would end