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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Revenge Horror, Suny Geneseo Stalker Gets Sentenced; Bizarre Defense, Did Man Kill Wife Or Was It Really An Owl; ; Inside Evil With Chris Cuomo; One More Thing; Helping Kids Get To Their Chemo Treatments; Cop Frees Bear From Locked Car. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired June 21, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:04] ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: Good evening, everyone, I`m Ashleigh Banfield, welcome to "Crime and Justice." Tonight a
young man learns his punishment for seriously, and not just a little, seriously harassing the girl who broke up with him, threatening her, her
family, even her sorority sisters. Dave Siegel covering this case. He took harassment to a whole other level.
DAVE SIEGEL, HLN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, the kind of text messages he was sending Ashleigh, are not the ones you want to see on the phone. The Judge
likened him to a psychological terrorist. We`ll tell you what he did to this poor girl and how long this guy is going away.
BANFIELD: That is what you call the official smack down, I believe, Dave. All right I look forward to that. Thank you, sir.
Also tonight, the question thousands of people who are being watching on Netflix and obsessing over a story about a staircase, here it is. Could an
owl do this? Could an owl be responsible for killing a woman who died in her home? And would it create a death scene like the one you just saw?
Everybody blamed the husband, but does this new theory explain anything. Kyle Peltz is on top of this mystery. It`s being featured in the Netflix
series "The staircase," and it is being -- I mean, it is viral. This entire new series.
KYLE PELTZ, CRIME AND JUSTICE PRODUCER: That is right. It`s a bizarre theory that is actually been floating out there for a while. Now it`s
finally raising some eyebrows. It seems like a pretty good defense, but when you look at that crime scene, could an owl really be responsible?
MACDONALD: I just love the image of the staircase. The word alone has a lot of people going -- all right, Kyle, I look forward to that, thank you.
Also, the bear, the bear who got into the outback, but couldn`t get out, couldn`t get back out. Get it? See how one brave sheriff`s Deputy lent a
hand and fixed this problem.
Also later, a woman was allegedly beaten and held captive by her boyfriend, the note she slipped to the veterinarian staff that may have saved her
life. And how police say, he kept terrorizing her even from behind bars.
First though, I want to take you to upstate New York that is where a 23- year-old master`s student who easily could have been graduating this week to become a successful accountant was instead just sentenced to four years
in prison. The Judge actually compared Thomas Traficante to a psychological terrorist. Because of the way he reacted to a breakup. What
did he do to that ex-girlfriend you ask? Well, settle in and get yourself a stiff drink. Because this could take a while.
He sent drugs to his ex-girl, and he sent them to her college address at school and alerted the authorities, trying to frame her. He hacked into
her online chemistry class and he just went ahead and submitted incorrect quizzes which made it all zero`s. He anonymously texted her sorority
sister`s dark messages like it`s not safe out there tonight, among many other texts that really scared the wits out of them.
And then there was that time he shot up her family`s property with BB gun, then it was also that time he posted her contact info on an advertising
site for prostitutes. She got dozens of strange callers soliciting her for sex. So what did she do? She changed her number, because that would be
the solution, right? No, he somehow found the new one. Contacted her again, warning her that he was, quote, still out there. She even managed -
- or considered at one point to changing her name, but she didn`t have to.
Because a Judge stepped in and gave her some relief this week. For the next four years or so, this fella is going to be in a place where he really
should not be able to reach her again. It`s called prison. And it`s not fun. And wait until you hear what he could have got.
Joining me now, Gary Craig, investigative reporter, for the Democrat and Chronicle, also attorney and cyberstalking victim and expert Alexis Moore,
she is the author of surviving cyber stalking, survive it herself and wrote a book about it and became an attorney as well. Defense Attorney, Kenya
Johnson is also with me.
All right. First to you, Gary, this case is terrifying. I mean, to say the least, what this young woman went through before finally getting this
relief, how easy was it to prove all of these things were him?
GARY CRAIG, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, DEMOCRAT AND CHRONICLE: Well, as you said, this campaign went, and you noted much of it there, this campaign
went for months and months at the end of 2017. Once they were able to sort of track the phone back to him and some computer stuff back to him, then
the ultimately they got some admissions, but it took a little while for them to do that, because he was covering his tracks pretty well for a while
near the end of the year before they finally caught up with him.
BANFIELD: And ultimately -- I mean, this is a smart kid, right? This is not a kid who -- I mean, this is a kid who probably should know better.
Did anybody sort of come to his defense saying he was somehow diminished in his capacity, because he was so madly in love with -- did that ever enter
into the picture?
[18:05:08] CRAIG: Yes, I mean, clearly, obviously, he didn`t react well to the breakup last year, but he had family in the courtroom yesterday. He
was sentenced yesterday. And while supportive, they all, based on letters they had written to the judge and all, which we heard some yesterday, they
all seemed particularly shocked still by his crimes. It just seemed to be something that surprised everybody, even those closest to him.
BANFIELD: So Gary, take me into the courtroom. I know you were in there for the sentencing. He is got his family there. And she, she was there.
She actually summoned up the courage to face him in that courtroom. What was that like?
CRAIG: Yes, she actually -- she was sitting right in front of me with her mom. She didn`t address the court. There was some portions of a letter
read by the prosecutor, Melissa (inaudible). And you could tell that as this sentencing went on and it became evident that the judge was actually
going to give him a tougher sentence than what`s recommended by what`s known as federal sentencing guidelines, that she was feeling good about
what the outcome would be, as good as you can feel having gone through something like she did, but she was very, very pleased at the outcome in
the sentence. And I talked to the prosecutor who obviously dealt with the young woman afterwards. She didn`t want to speak to the media and she
said that the young woman was definitely happy. She went into the court fearful that Mr. Traficante would somehow dupe the judge into believing
that he deserved a lesser sentence, and maybe even probation, but that didn`t work.
BANFIELD: So I want to play one moment from his attorney, Raymond Perini where he appeals to the judge. You know, and this is typical. This is the
way it works, folks. You make a plea. You save the court a bunch of money. You take responsibility for what you do. And you`re kind of hoping
for leniency, because that is a tit for tat, right? And so to that end, here is his attorney, Raymond Perini, but while you`re listening to it,
while you`re listening to Raymond Perini make the case for why his client is, you know, pleading guilty and hoping for, you know, a little leniency,
I want you to realize what`s about to come down the pike. And that is that the judge is having none of it. He is going to throw the book at his
client. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAYMOND PERINI, THOMAS TRAFICANTE`S ATTRONEY: I think he -- he made the right decision for the victim, for the school and for himself. It was
something he had -- he had to accept responsibility for, and he has to deal with the consequences. And I think at 23 years old, that is a very mature
decision to make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: And that is not unusual for a lawyer to say. Right? That is what you do. Except for the fact that the judge, Gary, absolutely blew a
gasket on this guy. The sentencing guidelines were 30 to 37 months, like three-ish years. And instead he got four.
CRAIG: And as you well know, I mean, to go above the sentencing guidelines, you really have to make a case of why you`re doing that. And
then the judge did that. The Judge thought that the guidelines didn`t really capture the breadth of the harassment and the campaign of harassment
and he also -- there was an incident with a high school girlfriend, which we haven`t learned a lot about, but apparently there was a sort of similar
campaign of harassment by Mr. Traficante. And the Judge thought that the sentencing guidelines didn`t really capture that either, that there was
what you would call uncharged conduct that he should be held responsible for as well.
BANFIELD: So they didn`t go into a lot of detail, but this was kind of the first time, right, that we heard, hey, this victim is not the first time
that he is been to this rodeo. There was another young woman back in high school. I mean, they didn`t spell out a lot, but enough to say that this
is a pattern?
CRAIG: Exactly. And the prosecutor basically said that it was very similar as to the one we know of. The student up here in western New York.
And the other thing that they pointed out was, you know, it was legally owned and registered. He had an AR-15 when he was arrested at his home,
but they did raise these questions of whether this could have escalated to something even worse. He clearly, when that was said in court was shaking
his head negatively, which obviously was his answer to no, that would never happen. Both the judge and the prosecutor raised that in their comments.
BANFIELD: Well, yes. I`ll tell you what, you saw that laundry list, you heard that laundry list that I read out at the beginning of this segment,
of all the things that he did. And then to find out he is got the AR-15 at home. Maybe that is not inappropriate for the judge to say it could have
escalated. Because it was escalating. I want to go back to where it started. Some of the things he did text to these sorority sisters.
At one point in the evening, the sorority sisters were all getting together and he had said to them it is not safe out there tonight. OK. So the next
night they postponed an event, because they were all really afraid, that they were getting this threats. And he sent another text that next night.
And it read, glad you all mostly took my advice last night, but moving forward one night doesn`t make capas or their dates any safer. I mean no
harm. I`m not the threat. But harm is coming.
[18:10:11] And then not long after that, not quite maybe three weeks or so after that he sent another text. And this one was to the victim. You`re
all crazy if you think I`m not still out there. And here`s how his attorney defended the character of this young man. Granted, he is got a
stellar, you know, school career going on. He is quite the academic. He is a master`s student for god`s sake. And this is how his attorney talked
about him in terms of the kind of character that he has. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERINI: In high school, he was an "a" student. Undergraduate school, he graduate graduated cum laude. And he is running straight A`s in his
Master`s program to become a CPA. So, this came out of the blue as far as the family is concerned. He is been a great kid for 23 years. He is had a
two-month blip where he did things --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: A two-month blip. Alexis Moore, a two-month blip, is it a two- month blip? I mean, how do you know whether something that severe was going to repeat itself again, except for the fact that there was the high
school incident?
ALEXIS MOORE, ATTORNEY AND CYBERSTALKING EXPERT: Well, we have to look at the statistics. I mean, first of all, 76 percent of women stalked by
former intimate partners are murdered. So that stat, I`m going to repeat it, because I want the viewers out there, and everyone to hear it, 76
percent of women stalked by former intimate partners are murdered.
So it doesn`t make any sense. And that is the national center for victims of crime. And that is a stat from 2015. So in the cyber era of today, I
believe myself it`s far -- it is 80 percent or more. And I`m a survivor myself, stalked and cyberstalked by a former intimate partner. And I can
tell you it is damn scary out there, and these stats are very disturbing, because they`re real. She could have easily been a homicide victim, and
that is god`s truth. Easily.
BANFIELD: And what makes this so surprising is that, that young man, his dad is a former New York City police detective, a former New York City
police detective who, for the record, wrote to the judge. I`m sure some day my son will win back my trust. He was asking for leniency when he did
that.
Kenya Johnson, there`s so many different things I want to ask you, but I think in general when you make a plea bargain, you kind of have to put your
faith in the system and you have to trust the system. And the system has to create that trust. Right? , but when the system flips like this, and a
lawyer says if we do plea, you might not get the max, the 37 months, and yet the judge says four years, is this a lesson to not trust the system,
not to make a plea?
KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, these are non-negotiated pleas, otherwise known as blind pleas. And so the judge has the ultimate
decision. You can try to bargain as much as possible and come up with a negotiated plea, but sometimes you just can`t reach a meeting of the minds
between the prosecutors and the defense attorney. But in this particular instance the defendant should be glad that he didn`t receive other charges
such as possession of drugs for the drugs that he sent to his ex- girlfriend, and also for identity theft, for going into her school account and taking those tests. So he actually had more charges that he could have
been facing. So he sort of got off close to what the prosecutors recommended.
BANFIELD: Are you surprised, though? I mean, the prosecutors were recommending the max, you know, the 30 to 37 months. He got 48. Right,
way outside the guidelines. Is that something he can appeal, saying, wait, you`re way outside even the guidelines?
JOHNSON: Typically, no, because the judge will tell you, this is a non- negotiated plea. And I can sentence you to the absolute max. So it`s a chance that he took by pleading guilty without having a deal on the table.
And ultimately the judge had the final word.
BANFIELD: Just an astounding case. Four years. He is going to have a lot of time to think about it. When he comes out, he is going to have that
criminal record which makes it real hard to be a professional afterwards. My great thanks to Gary Craig and Alexis Moore. Kenya Johnson, I am going
to ask you to stick around if you can. I got a couple more stories to take you to.
Tonight, the California graphic novelist accused of torturing and mutilating his beautiful girlfriend and barricading himself in his
apartment with her body. And here was the photo after. He has now been convicted of first-degree murder and aggravated mayhem and torture.
Prosecutors say Blake Lelbel beat and scalped Iana Kasian and then drained her of all her blood. Police think that she was still alive when all of
this happened. Lelbel will be sentence next week and he could spend the rest of his life in prison for those horrible crimes.
Also, Iconic fashion designer, Kate Spade was buried today in her hometown in Kansas City, Missouri. Spade was found dead in her apartment earlier
this month after committing suicide. In a very heartbreaking twist on this story, we have just learned that her father sadly passed away last night.
[18:15:06] The family issued a statement saying he had been in failing health and was brokenhearted over his daughter`s death, but clearly he did
not make it to her funeral today.
And nearly 17-year-old case is grabbing headlines, because of a bizarre theory about how the victim actually died. Police say it was the victim`s
husband who killed her ruthlessly, but people are now starting to ask if, instead, an owl, an owl could have been the real culprit. And some say
it`s not as farfetched as this might sound, but it is the latest twist in the Michael Peterson case. Yes, and it is the one you`re watching on
Netflix.
[18:20:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: I am going to ask you a very strange question. Could an owl kill a woman at her home and leave behind such a bloody scene like this
that police thought she`d actually been beaten to death? And if that -- if that sounds weird, then it actually is the question on the mind of a lot of
people right now, who are binge watching a program called the "Staircase." That is the newest series on Netflix to tackle a dark mystery years in the
making, very much like "Making a murder."
And the owl question is a question that is maybe has come too late. Because Kathleen Peterson`s husband was already serving time for the murder
of Kathleen Peterson. Michael had been home with his wife that night saying that they had been out by the pool having some wine before Kathleen
decided to head back towards the house to get herself ready for bed. That is also when he told police she must have fallen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Durham 911, what is your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1810 Cedar Street. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife had an accident, she is still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She fell down the stairs. She is still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she is not conscious. Please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many stairs did she fall down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? Huh?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many stairs?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stairs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many stairs? Calm down, sir. Calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, god, 15, 20, I don`t know. Please, get somebody here right away. She; still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody dispatching the ambulance while I ask you questions. It`s in Forest Hill, OK, please, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, sir, somebody is dispatching the ambulance. Is she awake now? Hello. Hello.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, god.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: When authorities got to the house, the staircase was a mess. It was covered with blood. Walls covered with blood. And I do need to warn
you before I show you the pictures that the scene was brutal, but it is critical in terms of the forensics and the facts. The scene was actually
too brutal, the experts claimed, to be a fall.
So Michael instead was accused of killing her. And there were reasons to suspect him. Like his debt to his alleged attraction to men. To the death
of yet another female friend on another staircase years before, but tonight, over 16 years since Kathleen`s death, there is something else, an
owl, a theory that an owl did it. A theory that, pardon the pun, is really taking flight. It`s a theory that could maybe have cleared the name of the
man who was actually blamed instead for her murder at one time.
I want to bring in Virginia Bridges, reporter for the News and Observer. And Herald (inaudible), she was in the courtroom for Michael Peterson`s
trial. Larry Pollard is a former neighbor of Michael and Kathleen Peterson and he developed this owl theory. Also with us tonight, animal planet`s
wildlife expert Dave Selmoni. And certified death investigator professor of forensics at Jacksonville state University, Joseph Scott Morgan, is
here. Defense attorney Kenya Johnson is also here.
All right. A lot of guests and a lot to get to. So, first and foremost, Virginia, how did this owl theory all of a sudden become front and center
in this case?
VIRGINIA BRIDGES, REPORTER, THE NEWS AND OBESERVER: Well, here in Durham, I mean, we`ve been talking about the owl theory for some time. It`s been,
you know, discussed at least since 2010. There`s been motions. There`s been wanted photos of the owl in the courthouse at times, but it`s nothing
that ever really took off legally, or appeared to influence the case.
[18:25:04] BANFIELD: And yet now since Netflix has come out with the program "The staircase," it`s got everybody really wound up and taking a
look at this, at this story, at this crime, and at this whole sort of two- decade-long case. Let me play, if I can, just the beginning. Because I have this feeling if I play you just the beginning of this, it`s a 13-part
series, I believe, you may just get hooked on this. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know we were drinking two bottles that night. It was a nice night. I guess it was 55, 60 degrees. Very nice night. And I`d
gone outside. And we were talking here for a fair amount of time. And then what we would usually do on a nice night, we would go down to the
pool, which I always think is about the nicest place on the property.
The dogs would come over. And they`d -- we were just talking and finishing our drinks. And then she said I`ve got to go in because I`ve got the
conference call in the morning. And she started walking out that way. And I stayed right here. Don`t think I said anything special to her, certainly
not thinking this is the last time I`m going to see her. I said good night. I`ll be up a little bit later and stayed here. And she walked.
And the last I saw her was when I was there, and she was just walking here. That is it. That was the last I saw Kathleen. Alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So the theory here, and Larry Pollard, as the neighbor, and also as the person who has now postulated this owl theory, the idea would be
that Kathleen left that spot where Michael just mentioned it was the last spot he saw her, he stayed behind at the pool, she made her way back up to
the house. Sometime between that spot and making it to the house in the dark late at night the owl comes in and strafes her head and gets tangled
in her hair. She presumably, being terribly injured, it is not unlike this diagram, is getting her own hair in her hands trying to fight off this owl
and becomes terribly bloody and goes in the house. I guess the question I have for you is, wouldn`t she be screaming like hell? And wouldn`t Michael
hear that since they`re both outside?
LARRY POLLARD, PETERSON`S NEIGHBOR: Is that a question for me?
BANFIELD: Yes, it`s for Larry.
POLLARD: No. Michael would not have heard her, because the swimming pool is on the other side of the house. In addition, there was a fountain in
the swimming pool that was sprinkling water everywhere. Now, where she was hit was completely on the different side of the house, a long way away from
where he was, and was in a recessed area from the driveway down into a portion like a courtyard before the front door. And that is where she was
struck.
BANFIELD: OK. And you`re saying she would have left the pool and made her way all the way around the house to the front door and therefore there`s
now the pool and the fountain that is noisy --
POLLARD: No, I would say that -- I would clearly say that she left Michael at the pool. She walked down the terrace on the Cedar Street side of the
pool -- of the house, excuse me, and she went walking by the newly decorated Christmas tree in the living room window. Most people, when they
decorate their tree, they want to look at it. And I think that she would be no different, because it was beautiful in that window.
She walked down the terrace and went back in to the kitchen door. And when she went into the kitchen door she put her glass down on the counter and
washed it out first and then put it on the counter to air dry before she put it back into the cabinet. She then decided to take the boxes that were
pasta boxes from dinner out to the trash and she walked around to the backside of the house that being the 10th Street side, out to where the
trash cans were, and discarded them.
She came walking back to the house and was adjusting some of the Christmas decorative yard art that was out there. White reindeer. They`re in all of
the pictures taken of the crime scene the next morning. At that time she was attacked by a wild owl in the back of her head. She received seven to
eight lacerations that went down to the scalp -- through the scalp.
[18:30:05]
BANFIELD: OK. I`m going to get to the medical stuff, I am going to the medical stuff, Larry -
POLLARD: Sure.
BANFIELD: But that helps me to understand where the theory of being attacked by the owl comes from.
POLLARD: Right.
BANFIELD: But I think what`s critical here is to talk to Dave Salmoni about the possibility of this happening at all with regard to wildlife.
You`ve had a look at this, you`ve heard the postulation that there she is, outside, arranging the Christmas decorations and bam, the owl comes at her.
Is it possible?
DAVE SALMONI, WILDLIFE EXPERT, ANIMAL PLANET: It`s possible. She wouldn`t be the first person attacked by an owl. It is very, very rare to get
attacked by owls. When I say very rare, I bet you if a story came up once a year, I wouldn`t be shocked by it. These are big predators. They are
protective predators. They have aggressive tendencies when they`re scared or when they`re territorial.
So can it happen? Absolutely. Would it -- you know, would it end up in lacerations in the head? That`s exactly where they attack. There`s a lot of
similarities from what I`ve seen on TV and from what I`ve read online that would lead me to believe that it`s very possible, or at least it would look
like this.
BANFIELD: So it is possible. Just when you say they`re very big, I have heard two different theories. I want you to answer quickly. I`ve heard that
they`re all of like a pound or two or three pounds to, oh my god, they`re super human, they can carry a small child away. What is it?
SALMONI: They are very big for birds. And particularly when you`re talking about a great horned owl, which is absolutely in this area, which is more
of the more aggressive ones who do often are the culprits in human attacks, a horned owl can take away a baby deer.
BANFIELD: OK, what about barred owl? The theory here is that it is a barred owl?
SALMONI: Also quite big, not quite as big, not quite as aggressive. It would be the same medium size in the bird territory. So, you would expect
the feet to be, you know, four inches apart, five inches apart as an adult.
They would hit with some impact, not great impact. There wouldn`t be any bone breaks. There wouldn`t be -- it wouldn`t be the blow, it would be the
sharp talons that would dig in when the animal is that size.
But certainly would never in any situation you would be thinking that they were going to try to kill the person. It was likely going to defend itself
or defend something. That`s why the birds are always attacking from behind. They feel very safe there. When an owl attacks something, they`re worried
about getting --
BANFIELD: OK. So what I`m getting here is that it is quite possible that Michael wouldn`t hear a thing. Number two, it is quite possible that an owl
could have struck her out there in the dark while she`s rearranging the Christmas decorations and making her way back to the house.
My next question -- and we are going to have to answer this after the break, so I am going to ask you all to stay put, then what? If she gets
attacked by an owl and she`s that destroyed and that bloodied and that injured, how on earth did the staircase end up looking the way it looked?
Because that is a whole mystery in its own right. Blood all over the walls, blood all over the staircase, blood all over her feet, all over her belly,
all over her head. That is the scene. Is it possible from owl injuries? That`s next.
[18:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: So we`re still talking about the murder mystery that`s taking Netflix by storm after a woman was found dead on a bloody staircase 16
years ago, and her husband pleaded guilty to manslaughter, despite insisting that he did not kill her.
But tonight, there is another theory that could, could clear Michael Peterson`s name for some people. But it all depends on whether or not you
believe an owl could have actually done the deed and been responsible for killing his wife. It has made for an amazing show called "The Staircase" on
Netflix, and you know who you are if you`re binging it.
My panel is still with me. This screams for, I don`t know, a certified death investigator. Oh, look, we have one. Joseph Scott Morgan, I just look
at the picture, and I`m just going to show you the picture because I think you can see pretty clearly what it is. We have the full screen of it.
I just look at this picture of the bottom of the staircase where her body was found and all the blood spattered all over the place. And I think if
you fell down those stairs, bloody from an owl or not, would it create that scene?
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, CERTIFIED DEATH INVESTIGATOR: No, no, that`s a lot of activity that`s going on there. In the south, we would say someone was
wallowing around. And this is -- there is definitive evidence here of some type of -- some type of blunt force that`s going on here. You`ve got
various patterns here that extend up the wall.
And it`s in a very confined space, Ashleigh. It`s almost like an individual is entrapped in this area. You`ve got kind of hedged in there in the corner
where it makes that sharp turn.
[18:40:02] It makes me raise an eyebrow. And particularly when --
BANFIELD: And I just want to be really clear, that picture, the wall that`s facing us, that`s the worst, the messiest, you`re saying that
there`s pattern going to the left and up and there`s pattern going to the right and up?
MORGAN: Yeah, doesn`t really take much for a forensic scientist to be able to see it.
BANFIELD: So how do we get a super famous blood spatter expert gets on the stand in the trial in first round, the first trial, and says, no, that`s
consistent with the lady falling down the stairs?
MORGAN: Wow. I think I would ask how many times did she fall down the stairs? Because you`ve got overlying blood spatter there.
BANFIELD: Blood on top of blood.
MORGAN: Yeah, yeah, that`s the way it looks at least, you know, given the kind of the primitive nature of these images that we have at this point.
BANFIELD: Can I play the devil`s advocate, and also I think Larry Pollard would describe to this as well that she`s got the blood covering her from
the owl attack. She`s trying to make her way upstairs to deal with it.
MORGAN: Right.
BANFIELD: She`s got hair in her hands, you know, that`s consistent with fighting off the owl. And on those hairs are micro feather fibers. I`ll
show you that in a moment. And she falls.
And then tries to get up. And she slips and falls again because she`s losing blood and she`s had a few glasses of wine. And she`s got I think
some kind of a relaxant in her system as well. Does any of that play into that picture?
MORGAN: No. I mean, I could easily talk about an individual having hair in their hands and having their hands up because she`s got injuries on the
left side of her hand and arm, extended up her forearm, that could be interpreted as defensive injuries as well. They`re not what we refer to
punctate injuries like you would with the --
BANFIELD: Fighting off an owl.
MORGAN: Yeah. That is kind of abraded areas.
BANFIELD: So, again, I`m going to push the owl theory here because this is what everybody seems to be really fixated on right now. You know, you look
at those injuries and sure, I guess you could say they look like the two- prong toe injuries.
You know, the owls have two prongs going forward, two prongs going back. But listen to this. Because this is in the Netflix, you know, special
addendum they`ve put out.
MORGAN: Right.
BANFIELD: They talk a lot about the feathers, the microscopic feathers. Have a listen to the way they present that part of the case.
MORGAN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the key pieces of evidence was the micro feathers in Kathleen`s hands. She had pulled out her hair in order to get
the owl loose.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had 38 hairs in one hand and 25 in the other. All of the hairs were Mrs. Peterson`s hairs. What they didn`t realize at that
time though was that on her hairs were microscopic feathers.
These owls are one of the only species of birds of prey that have these feathers. They go all the way down their legs to the talons. And it`s the
talons that we say caused the lacerations which caused her to bleed to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joseph Scott Morgan, Larry Pollard makes a very good point, those microscopic feathers, how do you explain that on her hair?
MORGAN: Pillows, comforters. I have no idea. I don`t know what she has in her house. I do know this. She`s got full thickness lacerations of her
scalp that go all the way down to the bone. Covering the backside of her head, that means that this was a focused strike in the backside of her
head. It`s not like she twisted down the stairs and she`s got them circumferentially all around her head. They`re focused in the back. And --
BANFIELD: When I come back after the break --
MORGAN: Yeah.
BANFIELD: -- I`m going to ask you about the little piece of cartilage in her neck.
MORGAN: Yeah, sure.
BANFIELD: That is another tell tale. I`m going to let you know about that in a minute. There`s also this. I`m going to warn you right now. The
picture I`m going to put up is very, very graphic. But there`s something in it. There is a clue that is so interesting. I don`t know if you can tell.
But near her hand, it seems as if there`s some white fabric or something that isn`t the pants. It`s paper towel. Now, look all the way down her left
leg. There`s a roll of it next to the sneaker. What`s paper towel doing next to a woman who`s been falling down a staircase? That`s next.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the theory that could blow a 16-year- old murder case wide open, for some. Just as the story surges to popularity on the Netflix series "The Staircase," it`s the story of that woman who was
found bleeding to death in her home and the husband who did time for murder when all the while some expert said an owl could have actually been the
reason she`s dead.
My panel is still with me. We went to break, Joseph Scott Morgan with me saying, there`s one more clue, inside the neck. What is it?
MORGAN: Yeah. There`s a small little piece of cartilage that`s right up here in this area of the neck. The only time I`ve ever seen this area
fractured, which in this case it is fractured, is when someone has been throttled. I guess someone could be struck in the throat by an object, I`ve
never seen by fall and fracture that little piece of cartilage right there.
[18:50:03] That leaves a big unanswered question for me as far as what kind of contact this woman was involved in.
BANFIELD: So, fractured in the inside of the neck. That`s tricky to get around. Kenya, I can`t get this other case out of my mind. Back in 1985,
another woman died, a friend of his, on a staircase. He originally thought it was a hemorrhage of some kind.
But then they exhumed her and found out she`s been bludgeoned to death on a staircase. And that actually made it into the trial. Is it fair that
something like that made into his trial? Is that too prejudicial? Is it patterned? How do -- what do you make of that?
KENYA JOHNSON, ATTORNEY: It`s very prejudicial because coincidences happen all the time. And so --
BANFIELD: Two women falling down a staircase to their death and --
JOHNSON: He was not charged. And there wasn`t enough evidence to connect him to that previous situation. So there`s no way that it should have been
brought into the trial. In fact, it`s so prejudicial that it could absolutely be grounds for an appeal. If there were a new trial, this new
owl theory could be --
BANFIELD: He got his appeal from the original, you know, based on something different. But -- and ultimately ended up pleading and was let
out in 2017. But listen, Virginia Bridges, real quickly, one minute left. Paper towel. How did anybody explain that paper towel at the crime scene,
right in and amongst her body?
VIRGINIA BRIDGES, REPORTER, THE NEWS & OBSERVER (via telephone): I`m trying to recall the case. I think that at some point Michael Peterson had
grabbed some paper towels and put them next to Kathleen Peterson.
People who walked in and saw the scene said that it appeared that some of the blood had been wiped up. Something to note in this case, when you say
that she fell down the stairs, you know, a lot of people think of, you know, a full staircase with 18 stairs.
But in this case, it was contended that she fell down two or three stairs. It was just a very small section that they said that she fell and knocked
herself out and then possibly tried to get back up. And so just want to clarify that.
BANFIELD: Well, thank you for that. Because it makes it even weirder, actually. You`ve left me more confused, Virginia, which I think is the
point here. This case isn`t easy. I want to have you all back again because I`m not done with it, but I am done in terms of time for this particular
segment.
Thank you so much, Virginia Bridges. Larry Pollard, Dave Salmoni, Joseph Scott Morgan, I`m going to ask you all back. Kenya Johnson, you`re not
allowed to leave because I still have more work for you to do.
Also have this. In HLN`s original series "Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo," Chris takes viewers inside the country`s most dangerous minds. Despite the
growing attention on sexual assault, an alarming number of rapes go unpunished. More than 98 percent of the time, perpetrators don`t spend a
single day in prison.
This Sunday, Chris is going to hear firsthand accounts of rape survivors, and also examine what hurdles they have to face just to get a little
justice.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): This is just a peaceful community. It`s a place where everybody feels safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): There was no witnesses. There was nobody around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, do you believe in God? And when I said yes, he said then you`re going to forgive me for what I`m about to do to you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): The depth of the depravity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taking a knife and dragging it across the back of my neck.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN JOURNALIST: What did you see in his face?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Evil. And then he started to rape me. I just thought I was going to die.
(PHONE RINGING)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Police and fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): I was just raped at knifepoint.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Did he rape you in front of the children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): It`s so scary.
CUOMO: It wasn`t over because you were so sure he`d come back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): He`s still out there. He knew where I lived, he knew where my kids went to school. He told me, I`ll come back and
kill you. This is how I`m going to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): This is just a peaceful community. It`s a place where everybody feels safe.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: "Inside Evil with Chris Cuomo." "The Anatomy of Rape" airs this Sunday 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: I got one more thing for you tonight. Earlier this week, we showed you a little fella busting into a Lake Tahoe house. Right there, not
so little. He did a good job. Let me tell you. So, tonight, it`s this guy getting a little help breaking out of a Lake Tahoe car.
[18:59:59] Cops say the bear trashed the inside of the car so badly when he made his way in that the doors couldn`t be unlocked and somehow he got
trapped in. So, that`s what the trooper did. He busted the window, and he made his way out. Adorable. Think it`s the same bear? Hard to tell.
They are both cute, but nasty. Don`t get close. Best advice.
Next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD (voice-over): Tonight, she slipped a note to the receptionist, and it may have just saved her life. A woman says her boyfriend beat her
and held her captive, but briefly released to take her dog to the vet. She managed to pass that note. The fear was real. She said her boyfriend had
a gun. Her injuries were real too. How police say he terrorized her even after they took him to jail.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael Peterson did not beat Kathleen Peterson to death.
BANFIELD: Turns out there`s more to the Netflix murder mystery about a seemingly perfect couple.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Peterson was bisexual.
BANFIELD: For a seemingly perfect night at home ends with a staircase killing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of accident.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She fell down the stairs.
BANFIELD: People pointed the finger at her husband.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No way in this world my father would have ever hurt Kathleen.
BANFIELD: But now a new theory is a-flight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The wounds on Kathleen Peterson`s head looked very much like bird tracks.
BANFIELD: Could an owl be the real killer?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Good evening, everyone. I`m Ashleigh Banfield. And welcome to the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
Normally, it`s animals being rescued at a vet`s office. But at one animal hospital in Deland, Florida it was a 28-year-old woman who needed rescuing.
She came in with her dog max, and her boyfriend Jeremy Floyd, a boyfriend who had allegedly been beating her and holding her captive for two days.
She said that she`d been threatened with a gun and that he still had that gun with him.
Somehow, despite suffering a head injury, she was able to convince him they needed to take the dog to the vet because that dog was acting strange. And
when she got to the vet she scribbled a note and passed it to the woman at the front desk. It read simply call the cops, my boyfriend is threatening
me, he has a gun, please don`t let him know.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I read it and just went into the back and called 911.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: The victim told local reporters that she sat shaking as she waited for the cops to arrive because Floyd`s gun was right there on his
hip. And she wasn`t sure if he had planned to use it. Thankfully, Floyd surrendered to the police without incident. But Floyd wasn`t finish with
this girlfriend, she said he called her 47 times from the county jail, this after he had been ordered not to contact her at all. But he claims he
thought that whole order only applied to the moment he left the jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was never released. You explained to me better than the other judge. The other judge made it like, When I got out, no contact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
No contact is usually no contact. No contact.
I want to bring Ray Caputo, anchor and reporter News 96.5 WDBO, also Christina Delpiaz, domestic abuse survivor and author of "breaking free,
starting over," and also this book, "How o depolarize," and defense attorney Kenya Johnson is with me as well.
Ray, can you explain to me how -- well, I guess, let`s just start from the beginning, how quickly the police got to that vet and how seriously that
vet took that note, and how this all went -- it could have been much worse, but it all went down pretty flawlessly.
RAY CAPUTO, ANCHOR/REPORTER, NEWS 96.5 WDBO: Yes. The police got there very quickly. Now, you can imagine, you know, the vet getting that note,
and then just taking a look at what the victim looked like. I mean, she has bruises all over her body. She had a shiner. She was shaking, I mean.
She was probably reading into it and saying this was serious. But the cops got there very, very quickly, right after she passed that note.
BANFIELD: And Ray, not only that, she did something else. She didn`t just pass this note. She pulled her sunglasses down, didn`t she, as a signal to
this receptionist. What did the receptionist see?
CAPUTO: I mean, she saw a black eye. She saw a woman that was battered, that was going through two days of pure hell with a madman. The lady was
shaking. And, you know, when you hear the 911 call, the person in the vet was a little bit shaken up, but that lady is a hero. She`s a young girl,
and she is an absolute hero.
[19:05:10] BANFIELD: Right. No kidding. I mean, just fantastic that she jumped onto it right away. I kept wondering when I saw the video, how did
she write that note? How did she get the pen and what paper did she get? Because she had been under his watchful eye the whole time. Did she
explain that?
CAPUTO: I believe it was a bank note. But I remember after, in hindsight. She had mentioned, and she kind of jokingly said that she writes a lot
better than what was on that note. Because that note has been shown, you know, on local media and all over the place. It`s, you know, like a shaky
handwriting that note. It`s kind of almost scribbling. And she has remarked that her handwriting is much better than that. But it just -- was
a sign of how shaken up this woman was.
BANFIELD: Yes. There was some reporting out there that she had actually taken the pen from the desk and had gone to the bathroom. And that`s when
she used her own, I think, bank note to write that -- to write that note. And then brilliantly was able to pass it on.
So I want to just read, if I can, the list of some of the injuries that this woman actually came into that veterinary clinic suffering. She had a
head injury. She had a left eye swollen and bruised. She had lacerations so her hands and her fingers. Her arms and her legs were covered in
bruises. She said that she had been captive by this boyfriend because he was upset that she had been flirting with other men.
Enter Christina Dalpiaz, it almost sounds textbook, it is almost laughable if it weren`t so horribly true that this is the kind of thing that happens
between men and women in domestic abuse. Can you put some context to this?
CHRISTINA DALPIAZ, DOMESTIC ABUSE SURVIVOR: Absolutely. There is a predictable behavior. You can -- you could profile these guys just like
you do serial killers and serial rapists. They have a predictable pattern of behavior. And what she did was she realized in the cycle of violence
when she could approach him by saying that the dog needed to go to the vet. She knew that he was in a lucid moment where maybe he was in the honeymoon
phase, maybe feeling some regret and remorse, and she seized that opportunity which is very, very brilliant on her part to get her to the
vet`s office. So she has been through this dance with him before. And she knew what to do. And I`m impressed with her, a lot.
BANFIELD: So Christina, I want to tell you -- I found this so disturbing once I got more layers to the original headline on this story, that woman
passes note to the vet, vet calls police. Police come and rescue her. It gets a lot deeper than that and I know that you understand why. I have a
lot of trouble getting my head around it.
She had two days prior, according to what she told the police been in a violent confrontation with him in which he threatened her with a gun. She
jumped out a window, he followed her out the window, grabbed her, dragged her back in the home. There was this very violent, you know, episode
between them that she says resulted in these injuries. But he says, and this is his story, as to what happened.
By the way she also says he apologized profusely two days later after holding her in this home. He says to the question of why he kept her in
the house, his story to police was he didn`t want her to run into any strangers. That`s literally what he said, didn`t want her to run into
strangers, he says they tussled. He didn`t batter her. He says the injuries came from her diving out of the window of that house. And as to
the struggle over the firearm, he said he was afraid that she was going to commit suicide with that firearm. And that`s why there was a struggle with
the gun. And by the way, two shots actually went off.
And to the question why did you have a gun anyway, because you are a convicted felon? He said he had a gun because of the victim`s violent ex-
boyfriend. All of that could make sense, but I guess it`s something you probably haven`t -- doesn`t surprise you, Christina.
DALPIAZ: No, it doesn`t. And what is probably happened is she shared in her past about how this other person was violent towards her. And he
became the knight in shining armor. He said you get a gun, I will protect you and for maybe a moment she felt safe.
But here is the irony. A lot of victims get killed by the very weapon that they possess. And so I agree with you. There should not have been a gun
in that house and why weren`t the authorities -- why didn`t they know that? Because he was residing there, he`s a felon, he shouldn`t have had that
gun. There should have been a matchup with the address and where he was living. You know, with that gun. And so I think what he did was he made
her feel safe for just a moment and she felt good and she purchased a gun, and he totally manipulated her. He groomed her right into that.
[19:10:09] BANFIELD: I want to list out the charges that Jeremy Floyd, 39 years old, has actually been hit with. OK, after all of this.
Domestic violence, aggravated assault with a firearm, false imprisonment, possession of a firearm by a convicted felon, possession of ammunition by a
convicted felon, and simple battery. And then you see that bottom one? That came after the fact. Because this poor woman reported that from the
jail where he was locked up after being grabbed out of the vets office, he called her over the course of three days a total of 47 times. It`s a bit
confusing because the jail monitoring system according to the police, that monitoring system only shows 16 calls from this suspect`s booking number.
But I don`t care if it`s 16 or 47. He actually had an order, you know, I guess it`s a pretrial condition not to contact the victim. So this is
where Kenya, you need to come in and help me sort this one out. He`s told when he`s in the orange jump suit the precondition of release if when you
get out on bond, which he didn`t, is you have a no contact order. And yet he uses the jail phone to call her over and over again he says because he
wanted her to bond him out. Does it make any sense at all that he says, well, I wasn`t out yet?
KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, he could definitely be confused. Judges make a good showing of describing the no contact order. But it can
sort of be confusing. Does that mean that I can have contact while I`m in custody? Which under the common sense, you shouldn`t --
BANFIELD: Can I call my alleged victim and ask her to put some money to get me out of here? Is that what you are saying?
JOHNSON: It`s highly unlikely. But he is claiming confusion, and that`s going to be something hard for the state to prove that he was not confused.
We will have to look back at the transcripts and see what he knew.
BANFIELD: This is where I get all nasty. Ready? So I get that, but I don`t get this part. Apparently he was charged with something much less
significant than stalking, right. Because they had the report that he was calling the girlfriend. So they came at him and they said we are actually
going to charge you -- I can`t find it here, but it`s one of these like lesser, it is something kind of insignificant, like hassle or harassment or
something.
And then the sister of the victim actually calls the police and says he won`t stop. It`s still going on, even though you were -- he was charged
with something called a violation. Violation of pretrial condition. So the sister then calls says he`s still calling my sister even though you
slapped him with this violation. So they upgraded it to stalking.
Can you still claim you don`t know when somebody came to you and said, because you are calling her, we are going to charge you with the violation
and he keeps calling her?
JOHNSON: Yes. Well, when you have a pretrial condition, it`s merely a condition. Once you violation that condition, then it can be a new charge.
And so, that`s what he is facing, the new charge of stalking. Whereas before it may have just been harassing phone calls.
And so, once the judge makes a clear showing that he shouldn`t have any contact with the victim he has no excuse at that point.
BANFIELD: Watch Jeremy Floyd in court as he actually tries blames the media for this, our fault for the boat he`s in.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`m sorry if there was prior miscommunication.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: it was a miscommunication. I will take another charge, that`s fine. Believe the media, hello.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Yes. Mr. Sarcastic, smile all you want, fellow, you`re in a boat load of trouble. I can safely say from this perch in New York City.
You can call me an elite has turn on any person or whatever because it isn`t my fault. It isn`t my fault. You are in the boat. You are in.
Thank you, everybody. Thank you all. I really appreciate everybody weighing in on this.
Ray Caputo, Christina Dalpiaz and Kenya Johnson, I`m going to ask you to stick around. I also want to say that if your loved one, is a victim of
domestic violence, please call the national domestic violence hotline, 1- 800-799-safe. 1-800-799-7233.
Thanks to a Netflix series you might have heard called "the Staircase." A 17-year-old murder mystery is getting a lot of new headlines. Police say
Michael Peterson killed his wife at their home. But there is another theory. That it was an owl that did it. Weigh in next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:19:50] BANFIELD: I am going to ask you a very strange question. Could an owl kill a woman at her home and leave behind such a bloody scene like
this that police thought she had actually been beaten to death? And if that -- if that sounds weird, then it actually is the question on the mind
of a lot of people right now, who are binge watching a program called watching a program called "the staircase." It is the newest series on
Netflix to tackle a dark mystery years in the making, very much like "making a murder."
And the owl question is a question that`s maybe come too late. Because Kathleen Peterson`s husband was already serving time for the murder of
Kathleen Peterson. Michael had been home with his wife that night saying that they had been out by the pool having some wine before Kathleen decided
to head back towards the house to get herself ready for bed. That`s also when he told police she must have fallen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
[19:20:51] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 911, what`s your emergency?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 1810 cedar street, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What`s wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My wife had an accident, she`s still breathing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of accident?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She fell down the stairs. She`s still breathing, please come.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she conscious?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, she`s not conscious.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many stairs did she fall down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many stairs? How many stairs? Calm down, sir. Calm down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, God, 15, 20, I don`t know. Please, get somebody here right away.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Somebody dispatching the ambulance while I ask you questions.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s in forest hill, OK, please, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir, sir, somebody is dispatching the ambulance. Is she awake now? Hello. Hello.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: When authorities got to the house, the staircase was a mess. It was covered with blood. Walls covered with blood. And I do need to warn
you before I show you the pictures that the scene was brutal, but it is critical in terms of the forensics and the facts.
The scene was actually too brutal, the experts claimed, to be a fall. So Michael instead was accused of killing her. And there were reasons to
suspect him. Like his debt to his alleged attraction to men. To the death of yet another female friend on another staircase years before.
But tonight, over 16 years since Kathleen`s death, there is something else, an owl, a theory that an owl did it. A theory that, pardon the pun, is
really taking flight. It`s a theory that could maybe have cleared the name of the man who was actually blamed instead for her murder at one time.
I want to bring in Virginia Bridges, reporter for the News and Observer. Ana Herold Tan (ph), she was in the courtroom for Michael Peterson`s trial.
Larry Pollard is a former neighbor of Michael and Kathleen Peterson and he developed this owl theory. Also with us tonight, animal planet`s wildlife
expert Dave Salmoni. And certified death investigator and professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University Joseph Scott Morgan is here.
Defense attorney Kenya Johnson is also here.
All right. A lot of guests and a lot to get to.
So first and foremost, Virginia, how did this owl theory all of a sudden become front and center in this case?
VIRGINIA BRIDGES, REPORTER, THE NEWS AND OBSERVER: Well, here in Durham, I mean, we have been talking about the owl theory for some time. It`s been,
you know, discussed at least since 2010. There`s been motions. There`s been wanted photos of the owl in the courthouse at times. But it`s nothing
that ever really took off legally, or appeared to influence the case.
BANFIELD: And yet now since Netflix has come out with the program "the staircase," it`s got everybody really wound up and taking a look at this,
at this story, at this crime, and at this whole sort of two-decade-long case.
Let me play, if I can, just the beginning. Because I have this feeling if I play you just the beginning of this, it`s a 13-part series, I believe,
you may just get hooked on this. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know we were drinking two bottles that night. It was a nice night. It was 55, 60 degrees. Very nice night. And I had gone
outside. And we were talking here for a fair amount of time. And then what we would usually do on a nice night, we would go down to the pool,
which I always think is about the nicest place on the property. The dogs would come over. And they would -- we were just talking and finishing our
drinks. And then she said I have got to go in because I have got the conference call in the morning. And she started walking out that way. And
I stayed right here. Don`t think I said anything special to her, certainly not thinking this is the last time I`m going to see her. I said good
night. I`ll be up a little bit later and stayed here. And she walked. And the last I saw her was when I was there, and she was just walking here.
That`s it. That was the last I saw Kathleen. Alive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[19:25:44] BANFIELD: So the theory here, and Larry Pollard, as the neighbor, and also as the person who has now postulated this owl theory,
the idea would be that Kathleen left that spot where Michael just mentioned it was the last spot he saw her, he stayed behind at the pool, she made her
way back up to the house.
Sometime between that spot and making it to the house in the dark late at night the owl comes in and strafes her head and gets tangled in her hair.
She presumably, being terribly injured, not unlike this diagram, is getting her own hair in her hands trying to fight off this owl and becomes
terribly, terribly bloody and goes in the house.
I guess the question I have for you is, wouldn`t she be screaming like hell? And wouldn`t Michael hear that since they`re both outside?
LARRY POLLARD, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF MICHAEL AND KATHLEEN PETERSON: Is that a question for me?
BANFIELD: Yes, it`s for Larry.
POLLARD: No. Michael would not have heard her because the swimming pool is on the other side of the house. In addition, there was a fountain in
the swimming pool that was sprinkling water everywhere. Now, where she was hit was completely on the different side of the house, a long way away from
where he was, and was in a recessed area from the driveway down into a portion like a courtyard before the front door. And that is where she was
struck.
BANFIELD: OK. And you are saying she would have left the pool and made her way all the way around the house to the front door and therefore
there`s now the pool and the fountain that`s noisy --
POLLARD: No, I would say that -- I would clearly say that she left Michael at the pool. She walked down the terrace on the cedar street side of the
pool -- of the house, excuse me, and she went walking by the newly decorated Christmas tree in the living room window. Most people, when they
decorate their tree, they want to look at it. And I think that she would be no different because it was beautiful in that window.
She walked down the terrace and went back in to the kitchen door. And when she went into the kitchen door she put her glass down on the counter and
washed it out first and then put it on the counter to air dry before she put it back into the cabinet. She then decided to take the boxes that were
pasta boxes from dinner out to the trash and she walked around to the backside of the house, that being the Kent Street side, out to where the
trash cans were, and discarded them.
She came walking back to the house and was adjusting some of the Christmas decorative yard art that was out there. White reindeer. They are in all
of the pictures taken of the crime scene the next morning. At that time she was attacked by a wild owl in the back of her head. She received seven
to eight lacerations that went down to the scalp -- through the scalp.
BANFIELD: OK. I`m going to get to the medical stuff, but that helps me to understand where the theory of being attacked by the owl comes from. But I
think what`s critical here is to talk to Dave Salmoni about the possibility of this happening at all with regard to wildlife.
You have had a look at this, you have heard the postulation that there she is, outside, arranging the Christmas decorations and bam, the owl comes at
her. Is it possible?
DAVE SALMONI, ANIMAL PLANET`S WILDLIFE EXPERT: Of course, it`s possible. She wouldn`t be the first person attacked by an owl. It is very, very rare
to get attacked by owls. When I say very rare, I bet you if a story came up once a year, I wouldn`t be shocked by it. These are big predators.
They are protective predators. They have aggressive tendencies when they are scared or when they are territorial. So can it happen? Absolutely.
Would it -- you know, would it end up in lacerations in the head? That`s exactly where they attack. There`s a lot of similarities from what I have
seen on TV and from what I have read online that would lead me to believe that it`s very possible, or at least it would look like this.
[19:30:01] BANFIELD: So it is possible. And just when you say they`re very big, I have heard two different theories, and I want you to answer
quickly. I`ve heard that they`re all of like a pound or two or three pounds to, oh my God, they`re super human, they can carry a small child
away. What is it?
SALMONI: They are very big for birds. Like, in particularly, when you`re talking about a great horned owl, which is absolutely in this area, which
is one of the more aggressive ones who do often or the culprits in human attacks, a horned owl can take away a baby deer. So --
BANFIELD: OK, but what about a barred owl? Because the theory here is that it`s a barred owl.
SALMONI: Also quite big, not quite as big, not quite as aggressive. It would be the same medium size in the bird territory, so you would -- you
would expect the feet to be, you know, four inches apart, five inches apart as an adult. They would hit with some impact, not great impact. They
wouldn`t be any bone breaks. There wouldn`t be -- it wouldn`t be the blow, it would be the sharp talons that would dig in when the animal is that
size. But certainly, would never in any situation be thinking that they were going to try and kill this person. It was likely going to defend
itself or defend something. Bird -- that`s why the birds are always attacking from behind. They feel very safe back there. When an owl
attacks something, they`re worry about getting (INAUDIBLE) up their feathers.
BANFIELD: OK. So, what I`m getting here is that it is quite possible that Michael wouldn`t hear a thing. Number two, it is quite possible that an
owl could have struck her out there in the dark while she`s rearranging the Christmas decorations or making her way back to the house. My next
question -- and we`re going to have to answer this after the break, so I`m going to ask you all to stay put -- is then what? If she gets attacked by
an owl and she`s that destroyed and that bloodied and that injured, how on earth did the staircase end up looking the way it looked? Because that is
a whole mystery in its own right, blood all over the walls, blood all over the staircase, blood all over her feet, all over her belly, all over her
head. That is the scene. Is it possible from owl injuries? That`s next.
[19:35:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: So, we`re still talking about the murder mystery that`s taking Netflix by storm after a woman was found dead on a bloodied staircase 16
years ago, and her husband pleaded guilty to manslaughter despite insisting that he did not kill her. But tonight, there is another theory that could
clear Michael Peterson`s name for some people. But it all depends on whether or not you believe an owl could have actually done the deed and
been responsible for killing his wife. It has made for an amazing show called "The Staircase" on Netflix, and you know who you are if you`re
binging it.
My panel is still with me. This screams for, I don`t know, a certified death investigator. Oh, look, we have one. Joseph Scott Morgan, I just
look at the picture, and I`m just going to show you the picture because I think you can see pretty clearly what it is. We have the full screen of
it. I just look at this picture of the bottom of the staircase where her body was found and all that blood spattered all over the place, and I think
if you fell down those stairs, bloody from an owl or not, would it create that scene?
MORGAN: No, that`s a lot of activity that`s going on there. In the south, we would say someone was wallowing around. And this is -- there is
definitive evidence here of some type of -- some type of blunt force that`s going on here. And you`ve got various patterns here that extend up the
wall and it`s in a very confined space, Ashleigh. It`s almost like an individual is entrapped in this area. You`ve got them kind of hedged in
there in the corner where it makes that sharp turn. It makes me raise an eyebrow. And particularly when you --
BANFIELD: When you said -- and I just want to be really clear.
MORGAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: That picture, the wall that`s facing us, that`s the worst, the messiest.
MORGAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: You are saying there`s pattern going to the left and up and there`s pattern going to the right and up?
MORGAN: Yes, it doesn`t really take much of a forensic scientist to be able to see it to help (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: So, how do we get a Henry Lee, super famous, blood spatter expert gets on the stand in the trial on the first round, you know, the
first trial, and says, no, that`s consistent with the lady falling down the stairs.
MORGAN: Wow. I think I would ask, how many times did she fall down the stairs because you`ve got overlying blood spatter there.
BANFIELD: So, blood on top of blood.
MORGAN: Yes, yes. That`s what it looks, at least, you know, given kind of the primitive nature of these images that we have at this point.
BANFIELD: Can I play the devil`s advocate, and also I think Larry Pollard would describe to this as well that she`s got the blood covering her from
the owl attack. She`s trying to make her way upstairs to deal with it.
MORGAN: Right.
BANFIELD: She`s got hair in her -- in her -- in her hands, you know, that`s consistent with fighting off the owl. And on those hairs are micro-
feather fibers. I`ll show you that in a moment. And she falls, and then, tries to get up. And she slips and falls again because she`s losing blood
and she`s had a few glasses of wine and she`s got, I think, some kind of a relaxant in her system as well. Does any of that play into that picture?
[19:40:13] MORGAN: No, I mean, I could -- I could easily talk about an individual having hair in their hands and having their hands up because
she`s got injuries on the left side of her hand and arm extending up her foreman that could be interpreted as defensive injuries as well. And
they`re not what we referred to as punctate injuries like you would see with a talon (INAUDIBLE)
BANFIELD: Fighting off an owl.
MORGAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: OK
MORGAN: These are kind of a braided areas.
BANFIELD: So, again, I`m going to push the owl theory here because this is what everybody seems to be really fixated on right now. You know, you look
at that -- you look at those injuries and sure, I guess you could say they look like the two-pronged toe injuries. You know, the owls have two prongs
going forward, two prongs going back. But listen to this because this is the -- in the Netflix, you know, special addendum that they`ve put out --
MORGAN: Right.
BANFIELD: They talk a lot about the feathers, the microscopic feathers. And have a listen to the way they present that part of the case.
MORGAN: Sure.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the key pieces of evidence was the micro feathers in Kathleen`s hands. She had pulled out her hair in order to get
the owl loose.
LARRY POLLARD, FORMER NEIGHBOR OF MICHAEL PETERSON: She had 38 hairs in one hand and 25 in the other. All of the hairs were Mrs. Peterson`s hairs.
What they didn`t realize at that time, though, was that on her hairs were microscopic feathers. These owls are one of the only species of birds of
prey that have these feathers. They go all the way down their legs to the talons, and it`s the talons that we say caused the lacerations which caused
her to bleed to death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Joseph Scott Morgan, Larry Pollard makes a very good point. Those microscopic feathers, how do you explain that on her hair?
MORGAN: Pillows, comforters. I have no idea. I don`t know what she has in her house. I do know this, she`s got full thickness lacerations of her
scalp that go all the way down to the bone. Covering the backside of her head, that means that this was a focused strike in the backside of her
head. It`s not like she twisted down the stairs and she`s got them (INAUDIBLE 42:18) all around her head. They`re focused in the back. And -
-
BANFIELD: When I come back after the break --
MORGAN: Yes.
BANFIELD: I`m going to ask you about the little piece of cartilage in her neck.
MORGAN: Yes, sure.
BANFIELD: That is another tell-tale. I`m going to let you know about that in a minute, folks. But then, there`s also this, and I`m going to warn you
right now, the picture I`m going to put up is very, very graphic, but there`s something in it. There is a clue that is so interesting. I don`t
know if you can tell, but near her hand, it seems as there`s some white fabric, or something that isn`t the pants. It`s paper towel. Now, look
all the way down her left leg. There`s a roll of it next to the sneaker. What`s paper towel doing next to a woman who`s been falling down a
staircase? That`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: We`re still talking about the theory that could blow a 16-year- old murder case wide open --well, for some. Just as the story resurges to popularity on the Netflix series "The Staircase," it`s the story of that
woman who was found bleeding to death in her home and the husband who did time for murder when all the while some expert said an owl could have
actually been the reason she`s dead.
My panel is still with me. We went to break, Joseph Scott Morgan with me saying, there`s one more clue inside the neck. What is it?
MORGAN: Yes, there`s a small little piece of cartilage that`s right up here in this area of the neck. The only time I`ve ever seen this area
fractured, which in this case it is fractured, it`s when someone has been throttled. I guess someone could be struck in the throat by an object,
I`ve never seen by fall and fracture that little piece of cartilage right there, and that leaves a big unanswered question for me as far as what kind
of contact this woman was involved in.
BANFIELD: So fractured in the inside of the neck, that`s tricky to get around. And then, Kenya, I can`t get this other case out of my mind. Back
in 1985, another woman died, a friend of his, on a staircase. He originally thought it was a hemorrhage of some kind, but then they exhumed
her and found out she`d been bludgeoned to death on a staircase. And that actually made it into the trial. Is it fair that something like that made
it into his trial? Is that too prejudicial? Is it pattern? What -- how do you -- what do you make of that?
KENYA JOHNSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s very prejudicial because coincidences happen all the time. And so --
BANFIELD: Two women falling down a staircase to their deaths and they`re both --
JOHNSON: (INAUDIBLE) he was not charged.
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: (INAUDIBLE) both of them?
JOHNSON: But he was not charged and there wasn`t enough evidence to connect him to that previous situation. So, there`s no way that it should
have been brought into the trial. In fact, it`s so prejudicial that it could absolutely be grounds for an appeal, and then, if there were a new
trial, this new owl theory could be -
BANFIELD: Oh, he got his appeal from the original, you know, based on something different, but -- and ultimately ended up pleading and was let
out in 2017. But listen, Virginia Bridges, real quickly, one minute left. Paper towel, how did anybody explain that paper towel at the crime scene,
right in and amongst her body?
[19:49:55] BRIDGES(via telephone): I`m trying to recall the case, and I think that at some point Michael Peterson had grabbed some paper towels and
put them next to Kathleen Peterson. People who walked in and saw the scene said that it appeared that some of the blood had been wiped up. And
something to note in this case, when you say that she fell down the stairs, you know, a lot of people think of, you know, a full staircase with 18
stairs. But in this case, it was contended that she fell down two or three stairs. It was just a very small section that they said that she fell and
knocked herself out and then possibly tried to get back up.
BANFIELD: Yes.
BRIDGES: And so I just want to clarify that.
BANFIELD: OK, well, thank you for that because it makes it even weirder actually. You`ve left me more confused, which I think is the point here.
This case isn`t easy. I want to have you all back again because I`m not done with it but I am done in terms of time for this particular segment.
But thank you so much, Virginia Bridges, Larry Pollard, Dave Salmoni, Joseph Scott Morgan, I`m going to ask you all back. Kenya Johnson, you`re
not allowed to leave because I still have more work for you to do.
I also have this. In HLN`s original series "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO," Chris takes viewers inside the country`s most dangerous minds. Despite the
growing attention on sexual assault, an alarming number of rapes go unpunished. More than 98 percent of the time, perpetrators don`t spend a
single day in prison. This Sunday, Chris is going to hear first-hand, first-hand accounts of rape survivors and also examine what hurdles they
have to face just to get a little justice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just a peaceful community. It`s a place where everybody feels safe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was no witnesses. There was nobody around.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said, "Do you believe in God?" and when I said "Yes," he said "Then you`re going to forgive me for what I`m about to do to
you."
CHRIS CUOMO, HLN HOST: The depth of the depravity.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taking a knife and dragging me across the back of my neck.
CUOMO: What did you see in his face?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evil. And then, he started to rape me. I just thought I was going to die.
DISPATCHER: Police and fire.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was just raped at knifepoint.
DISPATCHER: Did he rape you in front of the children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
DISPATCHER: Oh, my God.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s so scary.
CUOMO: It wasn`t over because you were so sure he`d come back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s still out there. He knew where I lived, he knew where my kids went to school. He told me, "I`ll come back and kill you."
This is how I`m going to die.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is just a peaceful community. It`s a place where everybody feels safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: "INSIDE EVIL WITH CHRIS CUOMO: The Anatomy of Rape" airs this Sunday, 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Not many of us can run a marathon, but Richard Nares, a CNN Hero in 2013, is running the equivalent of 65 marathons. That`s 1,700 miles,
Seattle to San Diego. Along the way, he`s hoping to raise a quarter of a million dollars to give to children with cancer free rides to their
chemotherapy treatments when their parents can`t afford it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD NARES, CNN HERO: Say, good morning, Daddy. My son Emilio was diagnosed with leukemia.
EMILIO NARES, SON OF RICHARD NARES: (INAUDIBLE) Dad.
R. NARES: I love you, batman.
We were fortunate we had rides to the hospital to bring Emilio. And many families don`t have that support.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to blow a kiss to the camera?
R. NARES: They can`t start the fight without getting to the hospital. We get them here in a nice, clean environment and on time. No child should
miss their treatment due to lack of transportation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: You can learn more about Richard`s run and you can donate, if you wish, at cnnheroes.com, and while you`re there, you can also nominate
somebody you think should be a CNN Hero.
I`ve got "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight. There must be something in the Lake Tahoe water. On Monday, we told you about the seven-foot, 300-pound
bear breaking into a house and helping himself to whatever he found on the counter. But tonight, it is a brown bear that needs help breaking out of a
car. Cops say he trashed the interior so badly that the doors would not unlock and it was hard to free him. Don`t ask how he got in and then
closed the doors, but it was a cop that bashed the window to let him out, very brave cop. But we do have to ask you, if you think it might be the
same bear and where he might turn up next. I don`t know, I think there`s a lot of bears in that area, but you never know.
See you back here tomorrow night -- Monday night, actually, 6:00 Eastern time. Thanks so much for watching. "FORENSIC FILES" begins right now.
END
