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Confusion at the White House Over Trump's Immigration Executive Order; Admin Official: Children in Border Protection Custody Will Be Reunited; Tom Arnold Meets With Cohen, Warns He Has All The Tapes; Trump: Democrats Telling Phony Border Stories Of Grief; Migrants Desperate To Flee Violence In Their Countries Fear Being Separated From Their Children In U.S. Aired 7-8p ET

Aired June 22, 2018 - 19:00   ET



POPPY HARLOW, CNN HOST: OUTFRONT next, breaking news. Confusion at the White House over the president's immigration executive order. This as the president pivots as he's trying distract from the confusion with kids caught in the middle.

Plus, a mother separated from her son now unable to find him. How do authorities plan to reunite this family?

And after Tom Arnold pictured with Michael Cohen is Trump self- proclaimed fixer sending a message directly to the president. Tom Arnold is my guest tonight.

Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow in tonight for Erin Burnett. And OUTFRONT, breaking news. Confusion at the White House over the president's executive order to stop separating undocumented immigrant children from their parents at the border. The agency charged with implementing the president's plan and the White House not on the same page tonight. Many are unclear as to what the plan actually is and it's crucial to thousands of children still separated from their parents. So what's the president doing about it?

He's trying to distract from the confusion and the outrage. Instead, holding an event at the White House with families of people killed by undocumented immigrants. Using that event to try and turn attention away from his totally unrelated policy.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE United States: These are the American citizens, permanently separated from their loved ones. The word permanently being the word that you have to think about. Permanently.

They're not separated for a day or two days. They are permanently separated.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HARLOW: And it goes without question that all of our hearts go out to anyone who has lost a loved one. But the president appears to be trying to use their pain to justify the pain of more than 2,000 children still separated from their parents tonight solely because of a decision that the president made. Most of those children have been separated from their parents for longer than just a day or two as the president just said.

The average stay in these facilities for children right now is 57 days. Dozens of them are just five years old or younger. Some just a few months old. And the impact of those separations can last far longer than even the physical separation.

Let's go to Boris Sanchez, he is OUTFRONT at the White House. And is there any clarity, Boris, tonight from the White House, from the president on the federal government's plan to reunite these kids?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Not yet, Poppy. No clear indication as to how the White House is reunifying these families. How they are being held whether there's still on detention or not.

We did here from DHS today, the Department of Homeland Security confirming that some 500 of the 2,300 children that were separated from their families have been reunited. But, we don't how that process was carried out, and what they plan to do with the other 1,800 children still separated from their parents.

Now, we should point out that sources have told CNN within the past two hours that the confusion rests right here at the White House over the past two days. There have been several meetings between a number of government agencies and White House officials to try to figure out how to implement the president's executive order. Specifically, how to reconcile the portion of the order that details the end of family separations and the zero tolerance policy that was put in place by the White House a couple of weeks ago that created these separations to begin with.

Sources indicate that the president himself has not taken part in all of these meetings. All this confusion is part of the reason that we've heard contradictory statements from a number of agencies, and no clear answers to basic questions about these separations, how these families are being reunited. And further, what the administration is going to do with immigrant families that are crossing the border right now after that E.O. was signed.

For his part, the president essentially used today's event with those families of people who'd been killed by undocumented immigrants to bash Democrats, to bash the media. Further, to essentially try to draw a comparison between those families separation, permanent separation from their loved ones to these separation of these young children from their parents as being temporary.

Further, the president again repeated that faulty claim that the United States neighbors are putting their worst in a bin in his words and sending them to our country. So he didn't really do anything to try to clarify the situation or at least show that there was some sort of strategy moving forward, Poppy.

HARLOW: Boris Sanchez, at the White House. Thank you very much.

OUTFRONT tonight, David Drucker, senior political correspondent for the Washington Examiner, April Ryan is the White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks, and Tim Naftali, former director of the Nixon Presidential Library. Good evening to you all. Thank you for being here.

And David, let me begin with you. The president backed down, signed the executive order, then you heard him today.

[19:05:03] It seems like he's still trying to justify it. So he signs an order to stop it and then he says, well, you know, these are families that are per permanently separated from their loved ones. Of course, because their loved ones have been killed. It's horrific. Comparing it to what he says as a day or two these others are separated, which is not the case.

DAVID DRUCKER, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: You know, look, I think it's understandable from a political standpoint that the president will try and flip the script here because both he and Republicans have been hammered over this for days to the point where even natural allies of the president were begging him to back off. But it's important to understand that his heart was never really in this executive order. And in fact, the executive order is really a request by the courts to lengthen the amount of time that children and their parents can be detained because what the president does not want to do is continue with the catch and release.

HARLOW: I do think it's notable though, April that this is the same ask of the -- of this federal judge that the Obama administration asked for in 2015. They also asked to be able to extend the stay of families together with their children in detention ahead of these hearings. It's important to note the judge slapped it down that time. What will the judge do this time?

The president's message today is that look, these are families who have been permanently separated from their kids which is not the case he's saying about these separated families we're looking at right now. What do you make of the president's argument?

APRIL RYAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, AMERICAN URBAN RADIO NETWORKS: The president's argument unfortunately has lot of holes in it since this whole crisis has begun. You know, you are hearing an outcry from many people be it on social media, or just on T.V. or just in the community even his own core. To include people like Franklin Graham who's talking about family. This is about family.

You know, some people are saying that this president has shown that he is the underbelly of decent society when it comes to this issue of immigration. Where is the love in it? Where is the heart that they were talking about a couple of months ago?

I mean, this is all, you know, a legal issue that they're dealing with in court, or with an executive order, what have you. But the bottom line is, does this immigration policy really do what he wants it to do. And no, it doesn't because right now this piece is just dealing with this separation because he wants a wall that Mexico was supposed to pay for. That's plain and simple, you know.

And also the issue, you know, about, you know, permanent -- a path way to citizenship. You know, that's another issue. But -- and also, you don't even hear the issue of visas. People overstaying their visas. That is a part of the immigration problem.

So -- and there's millions of people who have overstayed their visas. So -- I mean, you know, you deal with one issue, there are a host of other issues and it cannot be solved in a moment.

HARLOW: So Tim, the president tried to be to garnered support for some of his policies. His hopes on immigration and reform by painting immigrants with a very broad stroke to say the least. Listen to this.


TRUMP: I always hear that oh, no, the population is safer than the people who live in the country. You've heard that, fellas, right? You've heard that -- I hear it so much and I say, is that possible?

The answer is it's not true. You hear like they are better people than what we have, than our citizens. It's not true.


HARLOW: There is, Tim Naftali, no credible data. No credible data to show that immigrants are more prone to crime than native population, right? Than Americans that were born here. But that important fact aside, what do statements like that get the president?

TIM NAFTALI, FORMER DIRECTOR, NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY: You know, we were once proud to describe ourselves as a nation of immigrants, and this is a president nation who wants us to fear and hate immigrants. His attack on immigration is not simply on illegal immigration. He wants to restrict legal immigration.

So this is a president who ran on this topic. Ran on this approach, spoke to us about this approach during the campaign and has continued to make it a focal point of the administration. What happened this week was that he learned that there was a third rail. That he was actually touching an issue that would not help him politically. And that was the separation of families -- of children from their parents.

HARLOW: You know, you bring up what -- you know, the president ran on this, right? And Marco Rubio, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, a Republican, but one who has spoken out against the president when he disagrees with him. Sat down with David Axelrod for an interview that will air here on the special tomorrow night at 7 p.m. here on CNN. Here's a really important clip of that.


SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Well, first of all, I think he campaigned on it and was elected on it so whether you agree with him or not, to the extent that what he's doing now is consistent with what he promised he would do if elected. I think people have to acknowledge that.


HARLOW: But David, why are people shock now?

DRUCKER: Well, I don't think they should be shocked. But I think what's really interesting in all of this, Poppy, is that the president ran on overhauling U.S. immigration law. He continuously -- continually beat it up and said that we have stupid laws and a broken system.

[19:10:04] He's been in office almost 18 months and he has not led a concerted effort legislatively to lead a Republican Congress that's inclined to try and satisfy him with many sympathetic ears in that Congress to do anything about immigration law other than build a wall, other than a halfhearted attempt to legalize the DACA kids. And there are many things that both sides of the aisle agree are wrong with immigration.

And as one republican told me yesterday, the president because of his credibility as a border hawk, has the opportunity to be Nixon to China when it comes to immigration but he doesn't lead.

HARLOW: And he would love that Nixon and China moment, you know, on this or on North Korea. But to David's point, April, the president actually told Republicans to stop today. Let me read what he wrote this morning. "Republicans should stop wasting their time on immigration until after we elect more senators and congressmen and women in November."

He's betting that's going to happen. If you're Paul Ryan, what are you sitting here thinking? I told him to vote on this today. Now it's next week and the president says stop?

RYAN: If you really want to know what Paul Ryan is thinking, he's like, boy, I'm glad I'm leaving. But the bottom line, poor Paul Ryan, you know, he's trying to work out something of a compromise, a moderate compromise, and then here's the president saying no. And we don't even know where the president's poll numbers are coming from because sources who are close to this White House, Republican sources are saying he does not have the numbers. You know, for the House when it comes to the midterms.

So this president might be trying to create an era of strength that he's standing strong with this. But the numbers aren't there. And really this is a hot button issue that it's a slippery slope for midterms. He would lose on this issue, too. So it might be the best thing for him to pull back, but the way he did it, the way he did it was wrong.

HARLOW: There are polling that show, Tim very quickly, 58 percent of Republicans overall, voters do support this policy that results in the separation. But you've got those important voters, three out of four women, for example. The more independents, et cetera that the president need. This time around, they don't like this at all, Tim.

NAFTALI: He needs -- the Republicans need to hold seats in states that Hillary Clinton won.

HARLOW: Right.

NAFTALI: They're not going to do that with a family separation policy.

HARLOW: Thank you all very much. Nice to have you here. Have a great weekend.

OUTFRONT next, a mother inside the detention center and separated from her nine-year-old son who has no idea where he is. How are these families going to be reunited?

Plus, Trump claims Democrats are telling in his words, phony stories of sadness. What's he talking about?

And new signs from Michael Cohen as the president's long term personal attorney preparing to turn on his boss. I will ask Tom Arnold who spent time with Cohen just last night.


[19:16:22] HARLOW: Breaking news, Customs and Border Protection says it expects all children in their custody who are separated from their families will be reunited with them by tonight. That's according to an administration official.

That is good news for them, but this would only apply to those children taken by the agency within the last three days. There are still more than 2,000 kids that Health and Human Services in their custody that will not be reunited tonight. That includes one boy whose mother is detained and is frantically trying to track her son down.

Ed Lavandera is OUTFRONT.



ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The phone call came from inside the Port Isabel Detention Center in South Texas. On the line is an undocumented immigrant who asked that we not identify her by name. She's from Honduras and was separated from her nine-year-old son 11 days ago after crossing the Rio Grande illegally.


LAVANDERA (voice-over): I asked her how she's feeling. Not good at all she says. It's a trauma we will never forget. All of the mothers who are here as well as the kids. The truth is we never imagined this would happen.


LAVANDERA (voice-over): I asked her how he was separated. They betrayed us, she said. They told us they weren't going to separate us from them and we never imagined it was going to be for so long.

Department of Homeland Security officials have vehemently denied that immigrants have been misled in anyway.

JODI GOODWIN, ATTORNEY: There are things that you can do specifically to help out with the children.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): From inside her South Texas law office, Jodi Goodwin is trying to find 22 children. She represents 25 undocumented immigrants who've all been separated from their children for about two weeks.

Most of them don't even know where their kids are at this point?

GOODWIN: None of them know where their kids are. I don't know where their kids are.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Goodwin says her clients have tried calling the numbers provided by the federal government to track with their children were sent, but that hasn't worked. Only three of her clients have even spoken to their children.

GOODWIN: It's just not a system where you punch in a parent's name and it pops out the child's name. That -- it just doesn't exist.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Can be highly frustrating for them.

GOODWIN: Very frustrating. It's very frustrating. And each time I see them, you know, they ask, you know, any news? Do you have news?

LAVANDERA (voice-over): While there have been a number of emotional reunions between separated families, there are still many families struggling to just connect over the phone. The Department of Homeland Security says there is not a publicly accessible database to track the shelters where undocumented children are being kept. The DHS says the adult detention centers have phones where their parents can call their children.

The Honduran immigrant on the phone tells me she's in a wing of a detention center with 70 other mothers who are also trying to communicate with their children. I asked her what message she would like the world to hear. She says, President Trump for one second put yourself in our place. The only thing we want is for them to give us our children back.


LAVANDERA: And Poppy, government officials say one of the reasons why this database of children isn't widely accessible is for security concerns and predators in that sort of thing. But the fact of the matter is, tonight, dozens if not hundreds of people even though they have been in custody for weeks in many cases still trying to at least even make the most of the simplest phone calls to identify and at least reach out to their kids.

I spoke with another man just within the last hour who's in custody in the detention center. And he says his main concern here tonight is the anxiety and insecurity that his daughter must be feeling since they've been separated since June 4th.

[19:20:07] Poppy?

HARLOW: Absolutely. Ed Lavandera, such important reporting. Thank you for being there.

OUTFRONT now, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, Efren Olivares. His group is representing 381 undocumented immigrants who have been separated from their children. Efren, thank you for being here tonight.

And I want to get your reaction of the breaking news just in that Customs and Border Protection says all the children in its custody will be reunited with their parents today. Your reaction to that and does that include any of those you represent?

EFREN OLIVARES, DIRECTOR, TEXAS CIVIL RIGHTS PROJECT: That is good news if that is in fact true. It is good news because for those parents and those children, the separation will have ended. We have not confirmation -- have not received confirmation if that includes for example the 17 parents we interviewed yesterday who had been separated. But it should because they had been arrested three days ago so it should include them. The remaining question is the other 2,500 children who are still separated from their parents.

HARLOW: Right.

OLIVARES: When are they going to be reunited?

HARLOW: Of course, so what can you tell me about the process that your clients, your nearly 400 clients are going through right now dealing with the government to be reunited with their children? I mean, are you aware? Is there any federal database that they're using to track down these kids? Is it clear they where everyone is?

OLIVARES: It's not clear. I hope there is such a database that the government is using to kept track of them. I know we are tracking them on a database with the parents and the children. Most of the children are either en route or at a shelter and the parents are either at a detention facility or some of them are no long in that system, which means they either have been released or deported. So we're trying to get confirmation of that.

But I hope that someone of the federal government is just keeping track of these 2,500 -- 2,400 families.

HARLOW: So if they're listening right now, representatives from the federal government, I mean, what do you need most from the government to help in this reunification and to make it as expedient as possible?

OLIVARES: First of all, a clear plan to reunite them. Including the plans and process and safeguards to make sure that no parent is deported without a child. That no child is deported without a parent if that hasn't already happen. As well as some clear numbers, how many children, how many parents, what state of the country are they, and what conditions are their children. That, the government should held accountable on that information.

HARLOW: When the first lady visited one of these facilities just yesterday, she spoke to the children at length and one of the things she said is how can I help. Listen.

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY: Also like to ask you how I can help. To these children to reunite with your families as quickly as possible.


HARLOW: So answer that for us from your perspective. Dealing with these parents. What can the first lady do to help reunite them?

OLIVARES: She could have visited facility where the children are separated their parents actually are located. And she could have reunited those children with their parents when she was here. She chose to visit a different facility, and as far as I know, her visit did not directly result in a single reunification.

HARLOW: Appreciate your time and please keep us posted on how these reunifications go and what you're running into in the process. Thank you.

OUTFRONT next, Michael Cohen's new strategy? Re-tweeting this picture? Is this a message to the president? The man he's with, actor Tom Arnold who met with Cohen just last night. He joins us next.

Plus, are the images of separated families at the border phony? The president says he thinks these are phony stories made up by the Democrats for political purposes. We'll debate.


[19:27:20] HARLOW: Tonight, could Michael Cohen be sending a message to President Trump? Trump's long time personal attorney re-tweeted a photo with comedian Tom Arnold that he had posted of the two of them together last night. Arnold told NBC news, quote, it's on. I hope he, Trump, sees the picture of me and Michael Cohen and it haunts his dreams. Then he said, this dude has all the tapes, this dude has everything.

Tom Arnold is OUTFRONT. He is working on a new show for Viceland called the "Hunt for the Trump Tapes".


HARLOW: Thank you for being here this evening. I have a lot to get to. So let's jump in.

ARNOLD: Let's jump in. HARLOW: I appreciate you being here. So we know --

ARNOLD: Thank you.

HARLOW: -- we know that Michael Cohen is facing a criminal investigation here in New York. I should point out, no charges have been filed yet.


HARLOW: But despite the mounting pressure --


HARLOW: -- he's meeting with you here in New York, he's not taking reporter questions. Did he tell you that he has something incriminating on President Trump?

ARNOLD: Well, let me just say one thing about Michael Cohen. First of all, he's talked about how kind and appropriate the FBI was when they came to his place. You know and Donald Trump talks about --

HARLOW: That's in stark contrast to what the president has said.

ARNOLD: Yes, stark contrast. The president is trying to say the FBI are all these criminals, it is just not true. The FBI was completely appropriate. Michael Cohen said they knocked on his door, and were so nice to him. That's why --

HARLOW: Hold on. To be clear, Michael Cohen has zero problem with the FBI.

ARNOLD: He has no problem with the FBI.


ARNOLD: That's a fact. They were kind to him. When they knocked on his door and took his stuff.

HARLOW: So let's get to this question to understand, did Michael Cohen tell you he had something incriminating on President Trump?

ARNOLD: First of all, I know --

HARLOW: Hold on, yes or no? Did -- I'm just trying to get --

ARNOLD: Well, hold on, I'm not on trial here, slow down. Slow down. How can he not have something incriminating on Donald Trump? Michael Cohen worked for him. He was his Ray Donovan except says Trump is like, you know, reality show Ray Donovan. No- offense, Michael.

But of course, you know, he did everything for him. And Donald Trump is such a -- I mean, you look how he's handling the thing at the border. He's so bad at everything. He's incompetent.

HARLOW: So -- and we're covering it -- ARNOLD: He's incompetent. Yes, you're covering it and it's horrible.

And that's why Michael Cohen is in a position he's in right now. Where he's got to -- he's decided that it's about his family and it's about the country. It's not about Donald Trump. So he's going to do everything he can do --

HARLOW: And he say -- I'm not going to try not talk about over you, but I do want to get these answers. Did he tell you he has something incriminating on the president?

ARNOLD: How could he not have something?

HARLOW: Is that a yes?

ARNOLD: How could he not -- well, I know from my experience with Michael Cohen and Donald Trump and my -- the legal -- them suing me, inappropriately I might add, that I think that would be bad. I can only speak from being on the other end of it. What is it you want me to say?

[19:30:00] HARLOW: I just want to know the answer. I want to know if Michael Cohen said to you, Tom, I have something incriminating on the president.

ARNOLD: No, he didn't say those words.


ARNOLD: And why would he say (ph) those words? That sounds weird.

HARLOW: Earlier, you have a show that is about tapes, and we know that --

ARNOLD: Oh, yes, he's got tapes. Oh my God, he's even recorded everybody. Actually why he has my --

HARLOW: Did he --

ARNOLD: -- maybe he has my voice -- my name on those tapes.

HARLOW: Did he play any -- did he --

ARNOLD: I had to do check marks.

HARLOW: Did he play any --


HARLOW: This is how we were (ph) preparing for an interview here.

ARNOLD: You're better than me.

HARLOW: Did he -- no, my friend. Did he play any of the tapes he has for you?

ARNOLD: Did he play any of the tapes? Well, you just said I have a show. Let me ask you this. If you had a T.V. show, and it hadn't come out yet, just for real, and you had eight episodes, and you hadn't premiered it, you weren't premiering until September 19th on Viceland. Would you come on my show on CNN, and reveal everything?

HARLOW: I would answer the question.

ARNOLD: No, you wouldn't.

HARLOW: I would say yes or no --

ARNOLD: No, you wouldn't.

HARLOW: He played tapes for me or not yet, or no.

ARNOLD: You would?

HARLOW: I would answer the question honestly. Yes.

ARNOLD: Would you really?

HARLOW: I would. I would.


HARLOW: We're both Midwestern. We're both Midwestern, Iowa, Minnesota. So did he play any tapes you?

ARNOLD: Did he play any tapes for me? No.


ARNOLD: Jesus.

HARLOW: Earlier today, you apologized for telling NBC News that Cohen was working with you to take down President Trump.

ARNOLD: No, apologize for saying that --

HARLOW: Right, for saying that Cohen was working with you to take down the President. Can you just set the record straight for us?

ARNOLD: Yes. Well, I mean, he is working -- I mean, he is working with America. He's on the good side. He's on --

HARLOW: What does that mean?

ARNOLD: That means he's doing the right things. I mean, he's not working against America. I mean, he's not working with Trump. Let's put it that way.

HARLOW: Is he working -- is he working to take down the President?

ARNOLD: To take down -- those are -- oh my God, my glasses. To take down, those are my words. Those are Tom Arnold words that I said. He is not actively -- he's doing everything -- Michael Cohen is working legally on the right side of law, and working with America, and he's not working for Donald Trump.

And he is taking care of his family for the first time. I mean, he used to work for Donald Trump. He does not work for Donald Trump now. Donald Trump said he doesn't even know who Michael Cohen is.

HARLOW: How does he feel about the President right now? Does Michael Cohen feel like the President has his back right now?

ARNOLD: Oh, he doesn't has his back, and he doesn't feel like he has his back. Are you kidding me?


HARLOW: He does not?

ARNOLD: -- or any of those guys. No. I mean, would you feel like that?

HARLOW: Does he feel like --

ARNOLD: Would you honestly? Would you feel like that? I mean, are you kidding me?

HARLOW: I just think America --

ARNOLD: You should watch CNN --

HARLOW: I just think America is not so interested in what I think about it. I'm really interested in what you think because you said --

ARNOLD: Nobody cares what I day.

HARLOW: You know what's interesting, you've had six meetings, you said.

ARNOLD: Right --

HARLOW: With Michael Cohen. When did those meetings happen?

ARNOLD: When exactly?

HARLOW: Like roughly.

ARNOLD: There was the one with Don Jr. at Trump Tower.

HARLOW: When was that?

ARNOLD: And Paul Manafort. Just figure it --

HARLOW: No, come on. I'm asking you.

ARNOLD: No, I don't why they had to ask Michael. He reminded me of it.


ARNOLD: Can you call him in here?

HARLOW: Is this in last week? Is this in the last month? Is this over the last six months?

ARNOLD: It's in the last -- again, Michael reminded me of that. And it's been -- it's been -- we have a history. One of my best friends is Steve Tisch, the god father to his son who is Michael's son's age, which I just remember is something Michael didn't want me to mention again, and Steve owns The Regency. Steve's, you know --

HARLOW: Where I think where Michael Cohen is staying.

ARNOLD: Yes, and where Michael good raided by the FBI. There is a lot of --

HARLOW: So those meetings were within the last how many months?

ARNOLD: I was at The Regency --

HARLOW: So, it's all been well after the FBI raid, all six of these have been after the FBI went into his apartment, is that right?

ARNOLD: His apartment -- they went into his hotel room.

HARLOW: Hotel and apartment.

ARNOLD: And -- wait, let's say hypothetical that I --

HARLOW: Actually, let's stay away --

ARNOLD: Let's say I had a lawyer --

HARLOW: Let's stay away from -- I appreciate it.


HARLOW: Unfortunately, I have to get commercial breaks in.

ARNOLD: OK, good.

HARLOW: So I want to stay away from hypothetical.

ARNOLD: I bet you do.

HARLOW: But I want to get to --


ARNOLD: Do you know --

HARLOW: -- specifics.

ARNOLD: That's my lawyer. Do you know how good he is?

HARLOW: I don't know him. I want to get --

ARNOLD: Oh, he's very good.

HARLOW: -- the specifics and facts. What were the meetings about? Why have you been meeting with Tom Arnold?

ARNOLD: Actually, it's Tom Arnold.

HARLOW: Excuse me. Why have you been meeting with Michael Cohen?

ARNOLD: Because I can't tell -- I'm not sure the context of the other meetings, and I swear, I know I sound like Jeff Session, but in saying -- last night was about eyeball -- you know, I didn't know how well it was going to go down. I don't know if we were going to fight because it turned out to be a good thing, just a face -to-face, and to see what side he was on. To me, you know, it was come to Jesus thing.

HARLOW: Let me ask something.

ARNOLD: You're only going to listen to my --


HARLOW: I am listening.

[19:35:00] Let me -- let me ask you aside from your meetings with Michael Cohen. You have admitted that your mission is to get the President out of the White House. You said it earlier on Friday.

ARNOLD: Of course.

HARLOW: You said it -- you said it earlier.


ARNOLD: He's horrible.

HARLOW: Hold on a second. Let me just get the question on. You said it earlier today, and your new show is all about tapes that's coming out in September.

ARNOLD: Yes, it is.

HARLOW: Do you have any tapes of the President that the public is not already aware of?

ARNOLD: Yes. Yes.

HARLOW: That no one else has seen other than you and your team?

ARNOLD: Has heard.

HARLOW: Has heard. Thank you. And?

ARNOLD: He's awful.

HARLOW: What can you tell us about them? ARNOLD: Well, I think that if people had really heard, and seen who

he was before. Now this man has been on tape since the beginning of his public life, talking about who he is, pretending he was somebody else to say he was richer that be he was.

Rating women for how they look, you know, walking with women at the Miss Teen Universe contest naked. I will just this, when you are president, the library of Congress documents everything you've done -- and I think that if you see for instance one full day on the board room set of The Apprentice, one full day, and you've seen how incompetent he was --

HARLOW: Is that what you have, is on aired tapes from his time on The Apprentice?

ARNOLD: We have a lot of things.

HARLOW: Is that part of what you have, Tom?

ARNOLD: I will tell you that everything, every tape, the P tape, I would bet that every tape is real.

HARLOW: I'm sorry. What's -- are you talking about the word he used on Access Hollywood, the Access Hollywood tape exactly you are talking about?


ARNOLD: That's real. The grab by pussy tape is real.

HARLOW: Let's not use this word on the program.

ARNOLD: I apologize for quoting the President.

HARLOW: Thank you.


HARLOW: What are the tapes that you can tell us you have that are unaired?

ARNOLD: You'll have to watch the show.

HARLOW: We will, but the topic at least. If you cannot --

ARNOLD: I can't even say the words because they're so disgusting, and it's the President of the United States. I can't say what Donald Trump is involved with because it's disgusting.

HARLOW: What is the evidence that you have because are watching right now? You're talking about the President of the United States.

ARNOLD: And by the way, there's children being torn from their parents, and then he doesn't know where they're going to go, and there's 2,300 that will not find their families ever. That's what's disgusting, right? Don't you agree? Like there's no game plan for those kids.

HARLOW: We have been covering it constantly.

ARNOLD: I know you have.

HARLOW: And you know, you saw -- you saw my show this morning.

ARNOLD: I know. But that's what's disgusting. And that's why I'm going to keep on at him.

HARLOW: So -- but my question, you're asserting that you have tapes that the public hasn't seen.

ARNOLD: No. No. I have a show -- I have a show, and you're going to see eight episodes.

HARLOW: Let me just finish really quickly. You got time. That you have tape that is the President -- that look very bad, it seems, for the President of the United States. That the American public has not seen, and you can't tell me you say the content of the tapes because you want people to watch your show.

ARNOLD: Yes, I do. That's it.

HARLOW: Hold on.

ARNOLD: That's it. That's the big deal.

HARLOW: But is this about ratings for your show in December?

ARNOLD: Of course.

HARLOW: But you said it's about the President, and your belief that he shouldn't be in office because of what's happening, for example, the children on the border. So then, isn't it morally right to say, and put the evident out there right now?

ARNOLD: I think that the President is watching this interview, and he knows that Michael Cohen and I, when I leave here, I'm going back to The Regency with Michael Cohen. And I want you to listen. Just consider this. And I'm going to spend the weekend with Michael Cohen.

And the President -- and Donald Trump, Ivanka Trump, I'm spending the weekend hanging out with Michael Cohen. And there's a lot going on. So you've treated -- you've disrespected him, and his family, and there's a lot going on. So he get's to sleep --


ARNOLD: That's good enough for me.

HARLOW: So, Tom, you are going to spend the weekend with Michael Cohen, the President's former attorney.


HARLOW: Did Michael Cohen --

ARNOLD: And I have -- I have -- one person at a time, and Felix Sater, all these people that were friends with him. I've got one person at a time, and people from Trump's world --

HARLOW: Did Michael Cohen tell you specifically that he is working with authorities? That he has agreed to cooperate with the authorities in their investigation?

ARNOLD: I wouldn't -- this is too important to me to F around, and you know the word I'm talking about. And I have a 5-year-old son, and a 2-year-old daughter, and that's really why I'm doing the show. And we're having fun with these Trump tapes, but this is serious to me, Poppy, and I'm not f-ing around.

[19:40:00] HARLOW: I am asking you --

ARNOLD: No, I am not saying you think I am.

HARLOW: -- did Michael -- did Michael Cohen tell you specifically, really just yes or no, that he is cooperating with authorities, should charges be brought? Did he tell you? Do you not want to answer the question?


HARLOW: You don't want to answer the question.

ARNOLD: Right.


ARNOLD: Because --

HARLOW: Will you let us know what you learn over the weekend since you're spending the weekend with Michael Cohen?


HARLOW: Thank you for being here, Tom Arnold.

ARNOLD: Thank you.

HARLOW: Appreciate it.

ARNOLD: Thank you.

HARLOW: OK. Next, President Trump goes on the attack accusing Democrats of making up stories about undocumented immigrants, and weighing the risks.

ARNOLD: You see it right there. All right, guys.

HARLOW: Families in Mexico facing life and death decisions over whether to head to the U.S. border. Is the President's new policy changing their plan? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Tonight, just two days after signing an executive order to keep families that illegally cross the border together, President Trump suggesting the clearly documented stories of those families ripped apart are fake.

[19:45:09] In part, the President writes, quote, we cannot allow our country to be overrun by illegal immigrants as the Democrats tell their phony stories of sadness and grief, hoping it will help them in the elections.

It is unclear which stories the President is referring as phony, but take look at this mother being reunited with her 7-year-old son. She sued the Trump administration for taking her son away after she said they crossed the border into Arizona last month undocumented, seeking asylum.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking Foreign Language)


HARLOW: That mother's tears and relief hugging her son are very real. Our friend now, co-Founder of the Women for Trump PAC Amy Cramer, and former Communications Director for Immigration and Naturalization Service Maria Cardona. Thank you for being here both of you. Amy, phony stories?

AMY CRAMER, CO-FOUNDER AND CO-CHAIR, WOMEN FOR TRUMP: Well, Poppy, I think one of the thing he's talking about is the picture on the front of Time Magazine with President Trump looking at a child. And this has been put out there with the staring of this child was, you know, separated from mother, which in fact, was not the case.

The mother left the husband, and her other children, and came across our border illegally, and she was with her child. She was with that child. That child was not separate from the mother. And the mother was asked why you know, why is this child upset? She said oh, it's 11:00 at night I believe she said, and the child's cranky.

HARLOW: So Time Magazine --

CRAMER: That's a phony story or a phony narrative, let's say.

HARLOW: So, just to be clear, and Time Magazine stands by that photo. And Time Magazine says this is reflective of the treatment that immigrants coming across the border undocumented are getting from the Trump administration.

I hear your point, Amy, there are hosts of stories that you've seen on this network and every network that are very real showing the separations that are happening. The numbers from, you know, the Trump administration itself, (Inaudible), showing over 2,300 of these kids are separated. But, Maria, the President said Democrats in so many words, the Democrats are making these phony and sad stories up for politics -- for political expediency.

MARIA CARDONA, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR IMMIGRATION AND NATURALIZATION SERVICE: It's just so embarrassing, Poppy, that this is the person who is the President of the United States, who is willing to lie, and make up untruths about the suffering that little kids are going through, that families are going through, that his own administration is responsible for terrorizing these immigrant families who only want to come here seeking a better life.

And so I think it's disgusting. And clearly, he's doing -- hey, Amy -- Amy, I didn't interrupt you. So I think it's disgusting, and I think it's indicative that the President is really scared as he should be, and Republicans should be incredibly concerned because midterms are coming up, and Americans are appalled at this. You can see it in the polls, and you can see that the exact --

CRAMER: Actually, that's not true.


CARDONA: -- same bill of right that Republican -- the exact same --

CRAMER: That's not true.

CARDONA: Absolutely, it is. Republicans -- the same voters that Republicans need, independent voters, white suburban moderate Republican women are appalled by this. And they are not going to come out, and support this President.

HARLOW: So the polling -- the polling shows, as Maria said, that three of four women are not supportive of this.

CRAMER: The polling show also, Poppy, that 55 percent --

HARLOW: Amy -- hold on guys, I want to go through a bunch of stuff.

CRAMER: -- fifty-five percent of Americans believe that this is the fault of the parents that are bringing the children here and the human traffickers.

HARLOW: What poll are you referring to? What poll are you referring to?

CRAMER: Rasmussen. It just came out yesterday or today, fifty-five percent of Americans.

HARLOW: I'm referring to CNN polling, and I'm not sure the Rasmussen polling you are referring to meets our standards actually. I know, it doesn't mean -- hold, I want you to respond to something else. Hold on. This is what a Fox News host Brian Kilmeade said this morning. Let's roll it.


BRIAN KILMEADE, HOST, FOX NEWS: Like it or not, these aren't our kids. Show them compassion, but it's not like he's doing this to the people of Idaho or Texas. These are people from another country. And now people are saying that they're more important than people in our country who are paying taxes, and who have needs as well.


HARLOW: He has since walked back those comments.

CARDONA: There you have it.

HARLOW: He didn't mean that children coming into the U.S. illegally are less important because they live in another country, but you both heard what he said, Amy. What's your response?

CRAMER: I mean, I think what Brian was trying to say, and he didn't say it, I mean he --

HARLOW: That's not --


CRAMER: Let me answer the question. Poppy, let me answer.


CRAMER: To what -- I don't think, I mean, he obviously has walked it back, but the point is that we have to take care of America first, and the President ran on that. That was his campaign promise, America first.

[19:50:00] And I learned long ago from my mother that if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of everybody else. And so let's take care of our problems here at home, and one of the problems --

HARLOW: So, do you think -- Amy, I asked you -- I hear you.


HARLOW: Hold on. About America, Amy, and be the economy.


HARLOW: Do you think the American economy could function the way that it functions without immigrants?

CRAMER: No. I mean, we are a nation of immigrants, but we are also a nation of laws, and we are not a sovereign nation if you don't secure the border. It is pretty simple.

HARLOW: But the President also wants to cut down reduced legal immigrations. Maria, what are your thoughts?

CARDONA: So, here is the bottom line --

CRAMER: It is not so simple. CARDONA: Here is the bottom line. And I think those words from the

other channel's host said it all, and that's exactly what this President feels. Let's be very clear. This President does not want immigrants in this country who look like me, or who have brown skin, or whose names we cannot --

CRAMER: Oh, that's ridiculous.

CARDONA: -- whose names that we cannot say or pronounce because he said it before. He has asked, why can't we have people from Norway? Why do we have to have people from poor countries?

HARLOW: Let's listen to the President --

CARDONA: So, it is his own words.

HARLOW: Let's listen to the President today.

CRAMER: It's ridiculous.


DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I always hear that, oh no, the population is safer than the people that live in the country. You've heard that fellows, right? You've heard that. I hear so much, and I say, is that possible? The answer is it is not true. To hear that they have better people than what we have, than our citizens. It's not true.


HARLOW: All right. Well, I don't know what facts he is pointing to because there is no data supporting the argument that immigrants -- and you know this, Amy. No data pointing that immigrants are more prone to committing crime, or terrorism, and higher rates in the general population. Is the president lying?

CRAMER: This is the bottom line. Is that you are taking this, the left is taking this, the media is running with this because the left cannot run on less jobs, and more taxes. And so they have to find something to run on. They didn't care --


HARLOW: Amy, I'm not running on anything. I'm just asking if the President is telling the truth.

CRAMER: This was not an issue when Obama was doing the same thing back in 2014.


CARDONA: Obama did not separate families.

CRAMER: Where was the outrage over (Inaudible).

CARDONA: Obama did not separate families


CRAMER: I mean, let's secure the borders. I'll tell you what, next time I go to the supermarket, I am going to go and cut in front of the line, and I am going to put stuff out there, and then I'm going to turn around and say to the cashier when she tell me how much I owe --

CARDONA: That's not the issue.

CRAMER: -- have everybody behind me pay for my stuff.

CARDONA: I think it is important for your viewers to understand two things. The first one is that the President is absolutely lying, that crime statistics absolutely show that the undocumented population commit crimes at a much, much less -- at a much lower rate than native Americans.


HARLOW: Hold on. What are you pointing to? What source is that?

CARDONA: It is the crime statistics that are put out by the FBI, by the Department of Justice. That is known -- that is a known fact which is why we know, that's how we know that this President is lying. That's number one. Number two, the President says all of these things to try to demonize immigrants in this country, so he can pass his draconian anti-immigrant laws. And he wants to make it look like --

HARLOW: We have to leave it there.

CARDONA: OK, but really quick. He wants to make it look like immigrants are overrunning the border when in fact the border has never been safer.

HARLOW: Thank you.

CARDONA: Those are facts.

HARLOW: Thank you both for being here.

CARDONA: Thank you, Poppy.

HARLOW: You'll both be back.

CRAMER: Thank you.

HARLOW: Outfront, next, families in Central America fleeing violence, deciding whether detention, and facing the President's zero tolerance policy in the U.S. is the right choice, ahead.


HARLOW: Tonight families in Central American countries are reconsidering their plans to seek asylum amid the President's zero tolerance policy. But for others going back home is just not an option. Leyla Santiago is Outfront.


LEYLA SANTIAGO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: At a local shelter in Tapachula, Mexico, just north of the border of Guatemala, the news of families being torn after at the U.S. border is spreading fear. The 24-year- old Marjory Flores left Honduras the day after gang members threatened to kill her and her children, firing guns shots at her home.

Staying in Mexico, she says, isn't far enough to escape the gang's reach. But the idea of being separated from her three children, whose faces she does not want shown to protect them, has put her plans on hold even here, even here, she's heard the recording of the haunting sound of children's sobbing. She is crying because she had to leave her mother and her brothers. She feels alone. She feels alone with her three kids.

Anne Hernandez (ph) is saying in the same shelter with her 8-year-old daughter. She has talked to her about the possibility they may got separated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking Foreign Language)

SANTIAGO: So she finds this all so confusing what order has been signed, what the policy is. But what she knows for sure is she that she can't keep going north, and if she is going to be separated from her child. But she has also mentioned, she also can't go back to Honduras because she fears being killed there.

Despite the unfolding story of north, some migrants are still determined to press on. This group of seven adults, two children say they haven't heard much about the on going immigration debate in the U.S., but that is where they plan to go. (Inaudible) explained it is too dangerous to live in a place where basic human rights are not guaranteed. They can't go back he says, even if it means family separation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is the president. He can decide. But we just want a good -- a place where we can be safe.

SANTIAGO: (Inaudible) is on his first attempt at reaching the United States, partly in search of a job, but mostly for safety. He's escaping the violence in his native Honduras that has left his body scarred, the assaults from gang members.

Even so, he feared what could happen to his wife, and his 4-year-old daughter if they join him on his trek to the United States. He's saying that he has heard, and he understands that things are changing on the U.S.-Mexico border, but plans to continue his journey north. And says they are not all gang members.


SANTIAGO: And, you know, Poppy, the reason that this area is so important right here on the border of Mexico and Guatemala, is because many of the immigrants traveling north come through here first. And so this is sort of the gateway to the United States if you will. What happens here is an indication of what is to come on the U.S.-Mexico border.

HARLOW: Leyla Santiago for us. I'm so glad you are there reporting from the ground. Thank you for that. And thank you all for being with us tonight. Anderson starts now.