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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
Trump: Putin To Meet July 16 In Finland; Merkel: This Is A Make Or Break Issue For E.U.; Police Arrest Demonstrators At Women's Immigration Protests; Baltimore Sun: Multiple People Shot At Capital Gazette Newspaper. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired June 28, 2018 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Zain Asher live from New York, in for my colleague, Hala Gorani.
Tonight, it is confirmed, we have new details of the first summit between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin, this as the U.S. president cast doubt on
election meddling by Russia. We are live for you in both Washington and in Moscow for the latest.
Also, naming and shaming, the world's worst offenders of human trafficking have been singled out. We shine a light on modern day slavery and the
fight to end it.
And the game that no team actually wants to win, we will tell why you losing might be a good thing for England or Belgium in their World Cup
We now know the date and venue. But there's still a lot of speculation about what will happen behind closed doors and specifically talking about
when Donald Trump meets with Vladimir Putin for their first sit down, official sit down, I would say, their summit.
The White House says the U.S. and Russian presidents will be meeting on July 16, in about two and a half weeks from now. The location has been
decided. It will be Helsinki, Finland.
Critics saying President Trump should not agree to these talks, why? Because his own intelligence agencies have found that Vladimir Putin was
directly involved in Russian interference in the U.S. election.
But today, Mr. Trump is casting doubt on that conclusion once again. He is tweeting, furiously, about the investigation into his campaign's possible
collusion with Russia calling it rigged. He talked about it being a witch hunt many times before. So much to talk about here.
I want to bring in our senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance, who is joining us live from Moscow, and senior diplomatic correspondent,
Michelle Kosinski, who is joining us from Washington.
So, Matthew, let me start with you. If Vladimir Putin has gotten away with election meddling and he thinks that Donald Trump is going to let him get
away with a whole host of other issues, what are the long-term geopolitical consequences of that, do you think?
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a good question. I think that there are a lot of concerns in areas in the
capitals of Europe, for instance, and amongst the member countries of the NATO military alliance.
The United States with President Trump may be cozying up a little too quickly with Vladimir Putin. The NATO secretary-general, Jens Stoltenberg,
said today that he was in favor of dialogue.
But, of course, the underlying concern is that President Trump may give away some kind of concession to Vladimir Putin without the Russian
president having paid an appropriate price or more importantly, altered his behavior.
Remember, he was put under international sanctions, including U.S. sanctions, for Russia's annexation of Crimea in 2014. He's also been
sanctioned further, or his administration has for its support of Bashar al- Assad prolonging the Syrian war.
The Russian military has been found culpable of shooting down MH-17, the Malaysian airliner in which nearly 300 people on board were killed. More
recently, there was an unprecedented expulsion of diplomats from more than 20 countries following the use of chemical weapons on the streets of
I think the concern is that Vladimir Putin should be isolated now more and more, not brought back into the international fold. I guess this is
another example of how President Trump is increasingly at odds with his traditional allies over Russia -- Zain.
ASHER: Michelle, let me just bring you in because you heard Matthew Chance talk about why, according to several European allies, Vladimir Putin, and
Russia should be isolated. My question to you is, listen, we know Putin is a KGB operative, former, which means that in terms of his past, he is well
aware of how to manipulate, how to control other people. Doesn't Donald Trump risk, Michelle, being played for a fool?
It looks as though we don't have Michelle Kosinski. Matthew, did you hear my question? I can ask you.
CHANCE: I did. Let me answer that for you, Zain. There's been talk about what President Trump wants out of this meeting. He is going to hold
President Putin to account for meddling in the U.S. election? There's controversy about his latest tweet.
[15:05:10] Apparently, you know, again, saying that he doesn't believe that Russia is responsible. Russia denied responsibility. There's also critics
saying, maybe he should hold Russia to account for its actions in Ukraine or perhaps try and do a deal in Syria to try and hasten the withdrawal of
American troops from there.
I think you are right, he is dealing with a very savvy operator in Vladimir Putin and I think we have to watch very carefully what Vladimir Putin wants
out of this meeting. He is a very good negotiator. He is not going to do a deal with President Trump that he does not want to do.
Of course, above all, President Putin of Russia wants the crippling sanctions against his government lifted. He has had sanctioned imposed
against him for a whole range of misdeeds that Russia is alleged to have carried out over the course of the past several years.
They had an impact on his economy. It led to a downturn to living standards in his country, undermined his popularity as well. He wants
those sanctions lifted. I expect -- he is not saying this publicly.
I expect he sees this as an opportunity to start that process finally, being brought in from the cold back into the fold of the international
community for Vladimir Putin. It means getting those crippling sanctions lifted -- Zain.
ASHER: Obviously, Vladimir Putin does have his own motives. Matthew Chance live for us. If Michelle Kosinski can hear me, we tried to get her
several times -- if she can, I thank her as well. Unfortunately, we ran out of time with that segment. Michelle, thank you so much.
Could a quarter century of European kinship be thrown in jeopardy by a single issue? That's facing leaders in Brussels as they discuss something
that turned the E.U. into a union in all but name.
Germany's chancellor says migration can be a make or break issue for the block. It's a worry Angela Merkel knows all too well as she faces
opposition on both national and international level.
Nina dos Santos has the very latest from Brussels. Nina, why has immigration really become just the heart and soul -- a key issue in terms
of the heart and soul, in terms of the future of Europe?
NINA DOS SANTOS, CNN MONEY EUROPE EDITOR: -- being precipitated largely by the new Italian government, which is fiercely anti-immigration and it
decided to turn back a number of boats, stricken boats that have had migrants on them, that have had to try and find some other kind of safe
port of call inside the European Union.
They have been buffeted back and forth between two countries that have borne the brunt. Greece and Spain have had to take thousands of migrants
as well. This is the summer season when people feel it's easier to make that dangerous crossing.
Obviously, with the new government deciding to put its foot down on the issue of migration, this raises the prospect of potentially a disastrous
humanitarian situation. That is what the European leaders want to try and put a stop to before it even starts to happen.
Remember, we were already seeing these scenes in 2015 when more than a million migrants made their way towards the European Union. That is the
type of situation that Angela Merkel and other E.U. leaders want to try and prevent happening.
So far, when it comes to what progresses they've made in the first few hours of their talks, they are currently sitting down to a working dinner.
They have managed to discuss key issues like security, defense, jobs and also the financial framework of the European Union.
The issue of migration hasn't really been tackled in its entirety. For that reason, it seems as though the Italians have decided to block any type
of joint conclusion so far on the aforementioned issues.
The European Union has had to cancel the press conference that we are expecting this evening. The discussions are likely to continue to be tense
and go on into the night. The key issue when it comes to migration is largely how to share the burden of the migrants that are arriving on Europe
shores among all of the 28-member states.
You have places like Hungary and Poland who decided that they don't want to take any more migrant. They want to shut their borders to migrants. Parts
of the ruling coalition in Germany in Angela Merkel's government has said they would like to try and shut the border to migrants as well.
On the other end of the perspective, you have the Italians who are saying, we just can't take anymore. We're not going to take anymore migrants
through our borders as well. This summit is all about borders, how to reinforce the European system so that at least they can keep an agreement
which allows people to move from one country to the next inside Europe intact, was protecting Europe's borders.
[15:10:06] That's why migration is such a hot topic in this summit -- Zain.
ASHER: Actually, Nina, standby, I've been told there are protests happening in terms of immigration in the U.S. Let's listen in.
It's a large crowd. Not filling up this whole atrium. They have stopped work for the Capitol Hill offices. Interesting from my vantage point, we
have seen one lawmaker come down and greet the crowd.
I didn't hear what you were saying in my ear. I heard immigration protest. Women protesting outside the Senate office building in Washington, D.C.
These women are protesting -- we have seen some arrests. These women are protesting family separations in particular, family separations in
In the last week we told threw have been over 2,000 -- 2,000 families, parents who have been separated from their children. These are families
that are coming to the U.S., migrants seeking asylum, looking for a better life as they cross that border. We know that 2,000 families remain
separated at this time.
That is despite the fact that President Trump signed an executive order stopping future family separations. There's still this issue of what
happens with the families that are currently separated.
We know as I speak, Melania Trump is at the southern border talking about this very issue. She's trying to show that she has empathy for what these
kids are going through. Some of the kids are being sent all across the country.
In some cases, hundreds and hundreds of miles away from their parents. There's no sort of plan that we're away of in terms of reuniting the
families. That's a question all lot of people have.
I want to bring in former U.S. assistant of secretary, James Rubin. So, Jamie, you know, one thing that's interesting is that we had a segment on
immigration in Europe just a couple of minutes ago.
Now this. It seems as though immigration has really become a hot button issue not just in the United States, but really across the entire world at
this time. Why is that, do you think?
JAMES RUBIN, FORMER U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, the western world has gone through enormous political changes. There has been a loss
of support for traditional political parties. One of the reasons for that is that huge numbers of refugees were coming into Europe.
That caused many think the British government to decide to leave the European Union because of immigration. In the United States, Donald Trump
ran for office using this issue which had been going on in the United States from the south for many, many years, to basically change American
politics and change the political parties in the United States.
And so, it's clear that in a time when the global changes have made people unsettled, immigration has been important mechanism politicians have used
to stir up, as you can see, some opposition to measures. And then on the other side, those who want to crack down on the immigrants.
ASHER: I mean, how unusual, though, is it to see these sorts of protests happening inside the Senate office building?
RUBIN: I think that's pretty unusual. I've been in and around Washington for 25 years. You don't often see this large number of organized
protesters prepared to be arrested. Occasionally in a congressional hearing, you will have a few people stand up and denounce a government
official at the hearing.
[15:15:07] Maybe there will be three, four people arrested, but to have a large number do essentially a sit in at one of the Senate office buildings,
that's pretty unusual. I think it's coming not just on the heels of the family separation.
But the decision of the Supreme Court to basically support the Trump administration's approach to banning certain people from coming to the
United States. This whole issue of immigration is driving the two parties, Democrats and Republicans, farther and farther apart where the Republicans
are adopting a much stronger anti-immigration position, many.
And the Democrats are moving to a situation where some members of the Democratic party are becoming increasingly willing to protest and sit down
and get arrested. It's pretty rare.
ASHER: So, here is the thing. Is this administration basically giving out mixed messages? On the one hand, you have Donald Trump basically getting
giddy in terms of his excitement over what happened with the travel ban.
On the other hand, as I speak, you have the first lady Melania Trump traveling to the southern border to really show that she cares, and she
doesn't want these families, these immigrant families to be separated. Is the administration giving out very mixed messages about who should feel
welcome in this country?
RUBIN: I don't think the message from the Trump administration is all that mixed. Melania Trump, it's a little unclear who she exactly directing
herself at. Remember, she had the coat said she doesn't care. I'm not entirely clear on which side she's on.
President Trump has very clearly said that they are using every tool at their disposal to deter, to scare, to ward off, to make it harder and
scarier for people in Central America, South America, Mexico to think about coming to the United States.
He has shown a willingness to use tools that American presidents haven't used in many, many decades, such as separating children from their
families. Some members of his family have allegedly asked him to see what he could do about it.
And he blamed the Democrats, which didn't hold much water, because suddenly he was able to fix it. I wouldn't say there's much of a mixed message.
You may hear the occasional suggestion that we should be more compassionate.
But I think the basic message from President Trump and his administration has been uniformly designed to deter, to arrest, to use every tool in the
book to try to stop people from coming to the United States.
ASHER: Although, James, when it comes to separating families, it does appear that that was an issue that -- initially, you heard the
administration blaming Obama, blaming the Obama administration, saying he did it way worse or they started it, et cetera. You have seen a sort of
push and pull.
Yes, they want to make it scary for people. But this issue of separating families has really -- it seemed to cost them a little bit or significantly
with a lot of Republicans, especially Republicans in Congress.
RUBIN: I think that's right. This was going too far. I think it's one of the rare cases where President Trump actually reversed himself on a major
issue of immigration. He reversed himself on many foreign policies.
But on immigration, he has been pretty uniform until this step was taken which was a dramatic step that caused a lot of outrage around the country
from Democrats, from Republicans, from people seeing children made pawns in a political struggle.
The irony is that unlike in Europe where immigration from the south had increased in recent years, in the United States, it's gone -- it has
actually decreased. There's less people coming.
ASHER: James Rubin, thank you so much. Appreciate that.
It looks as though we have more breaking news. Apparently, there has been -- my producers tell me there's been a shooting in Baltimore. So, I want
to hand to you my colleagues on you my colleagues on CNN U.S.
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: -- far as did the person know -- one thing we're seeing is textbook on the screen are people exiting with
their hands up. We've seen this far too often. We've become well versed in what this means. That is that police will evacuate a building.
Before they give the all clear, they want to make sure that there aren't people evacuating that may have been involved or responsible for what
happened. So, what we are going to see is we see these pictures on our screen. Law enforcement bringing people out in an orderly fashion.
[15:20:03] They'll, you know, do those searches, likely to make sure that they're not armed, don't have any weapons. Obviously, ask for witness
statements and witness information. In these types of situations when officers are arriving, these are key sources of intelligence. People who
were there, what did they see, what did they hear.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Again, if people are just joining us, want to let you know what we're looking at right now, which is a developing situation.
The "Baltimore Sun" currently reporting multiple people may be shot at this newspaper building at "Capital Gazette" newspaper. Working to get more
And thank you, Josh, for staying with me as we continue to discuss what little we know. I can tell our viewers that this is a daily newspaper that
published in Annapolis, Maryland, since 1884, owned by "Baltimore Sun" media.
I want to bring in Brian Stelter, our chief media correspondent. Brian, talk to us a little bit about this paper and what we know about this
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, a Maryland native, someone who used to work in Annapolis, this is a very
well-known paper in the community, a really important newspaper that covers local politics.
Covers the state house there in Annapolis. What we know, very little, of course, as you mentioned, from the "Baltimore Sun" which is also owned by
Trunk (ph). Trunk is the parent company of "Baltimore Sun" and the "Capital Gazette."
So that's why the Sun has some initial information about what has happened here. We know the shooting was reported at an office park with multiple
offices. According to "The Baltimore Sun," the newspaper offices were involved in this particular incident.
And there were some very scary messages posted on Twitter by an intern from the newspaper who at one point was publishing the address of the office
park and calling for help. He later said that people had been wounded at that location. We know very little else at this point.
STELTER: I think everyone thinks about the climate of threats against journalists in this country, but we have no idea what's unfolded there so
CABRERA: No, but we are now learning that the ATF is responding to a shooting incident at this location. This is according to a tweet, the ATF
just put the tweet out. Josh Campbell, if you're still with me, what does that tell you about what's happening there?
CAMPBELL: It's going to be all hands-on deck. Any time you have a situation with some active violence, some type of emergent situation that
law enforcement's responding to, at the initial outset it doesn't matter whose jurisdiction it is.
The focus is going to be surging law enforcement resources regardless of the patch that they're wearing on their shoulder, whether state, local,
federal authorities. They're going to get to the scene and, you know, provide the resource, provide the support, and again, each agency brings
different things to the table.
If and when there is an all clear with -- at least not a continuing threat, then each of those agencies will be able to provide resources and, you
know, areas of specialty and expertise that they bring to the table. So, it is -- it is situations like this, you know, offices are, police
departments, federal agencies have offices in many different places, and they're going to surge the resource to the scene.
CABRERA: What's going on here? I mean, looks like there were a few more people walking out with their hands up. Now there are literally dozens of
people heading back toward the building.
CAMPBELL: Yes. It's tough to say. Obviously, we don't have a lot of information. That would lead us to believe that maybe the all clear has
been given and they're allowing people to go back in.
I can't fathom law enforcement allowing citizens that they just evacuated back into a building if there was a continuing it threat. There's a flurry
-- if there was a continuing threat. There's a flurry of activity. It's very confusing.
This is a matter of terminology because I've seen different reports from media outlets, in this business, obviously, we have to call it like it is.
But there's one phrase that we use, one word, you know, casualties.
When you hear that word, a casualty in a situation, that doesn't necessarily mean a fatality, someone who has been killed. That could be an
injury. You know, obviously no situation like this is something weaver want to see.
As we hear reports of casualties, that's a terminology that law enforcement and medical personnel will use, that doesn't necessarily mean that there
were people who were deceased. Obviously, they will be cared for and, you know, evacuated to local hospitals if they were, in fact, injured.
CABRERA: And I'm looking at the "Baltimore Sun" reporting, "Baltimore Sun" owned by the same company as the "Capital Gazette" where this incident is
apparently taking place. And I'm looking at what they have to report on.
And they only say that a shooting has occurred at the "Capital Gazette," and that multiple people have been shot, according to a "Gazette" reporter,
Phil Davis. Police were not responding to requests for comment.
Again, we don't have that confirmed that, indeed, multiple people have been shot. That is what the reporting is from the "Baltimore Sun" also owned by
the "Capital Gazette" a newspaper published in Annapolis, Maryland, where this is taking place.
We're working to get information. I want to turn to our Evan Perez, who's working the phones trying to understand what's happening here. Evan, what
have you learned?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ana, we know that there's been as you mentioned a big police response not only from the ATF, which
says it's on its way. They say that there is a shooting at the "Capital Gazette" in Annapolis, Maryland.
[15:25:08] The Maryland state police is also on its way. They say that they're also responding to this shooting incident, for which there's
precious few details. I will say the "Capital Gazette" appears to have published a story on their website at this point which is providing
It appears to be the same information that the "Baltimore Sun" is reporting, saying there have been multiple people shot in this newsroom,
attributing it to a "Gazette" reporter by the name of Phil Davis.
The same story that Brian Stelzer spoke about, published by "The Baltimore Sun," co-owned by the same company as this newspaper. At this point,
there's really just a big response from the police agencies, not only the federal agencies here, the state agencies, the Maryland State Police as
well as local authorities.
We're trying to figure out how to contain the situation. We don't whether or not how many people have been injured. The local paper there is saying
that several people have been injured in this shooting.
But we don't know whether they have anybody in custody, whether they know if it was one shooter or multiple people who did this shooting. So, at
this point, precious few details from the local authorities. We expect to hear a little bit more as the folks get on the scene.
CABRERA: The beauty of social media is we're able to get information quickly through the platforms like Twitter and Anne Arundel Police, their
PIO, put out a message saying "active shooter," and listing an address, 888 Bestgate Road. Media staging area is there. Also confirming that there's
a response to --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- we're doing the best we can. We're doing everything we can to get people out safe. We're trying to minimize the casualties.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said it was --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Family is going to reunite at the Lord & Taylor inside Annapolis mall. We'll have officers to reunite you with family. We'll
give another update as soon as we can.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are the newspaper officers involved?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't confirm, but I can tell you it is 888 Bestgate Road.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Lieutenant Frasier, look, I don't want to put you on the spot. We work together frequently. I have been told by
other sources that someone's in custody. You're not ready to say that officially yet?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. I cannot confirm that. What I can tell you now is that we're doing everything we can to secure that building, make
sure people are out safe. We're evacuating people. And again, there's a lot of factors that got into this. There's a lot of secondary things we
have to look into also.
Whether there's any type -- other shooters, there might be more than one, bombs, there's a variety of things we have to go through. A checklist, to
make sure everything's safe for people inside the building. The obvious is to get them out, get them safe and reunited with family, and our
investigation will continue.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're not ready to say anything about any possible injuries?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct. Correct. I'll have an update for you as soon as possible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Thank you very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Appreciate it. Lieutenant Ryan Frasier --
CABRERA: We are dipping there in to the affiliate, WJLA is on scene, at the press conference involving one of the public information officers.
Appeared to be Lieutenant Ryan Frasier with the Anne Arundel County Police Department there in Maryland responding to an active shooter.
He confirmed that, but not able to confirm whether there were indeed any injuries nor whether anybody had been taken into custody. We heard him say
they're doing what they can to secure the building. They wanted to get everybody out, reunited with families, make sure as many people as possible
This obviously a developing situation and ongoing investigation. We'll continue to look at the live aerials.
I want to bring in Tom Fuentes, former FBI, as well. What is your assessment based on what we heard and what we're seeing about what's
TOM FUENTES, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: When you watch videos like this, especially when the aerial view is a wider view, I go by the
officers on the ground. There doesn't seem to be any kind of frantic search for another shooter or locking down the neighborhood or evacuating
that whole building.
They're pretty much just standing around outside the building which means that they'll probably announce soon that whoever was responsible for this
has been neutralized, either arrested or possibly shot or the person shot himself.
That now they're going to go about the crime scene investigation and search the rest of the building and do what they have to do to make sure there's
no booby traps or other shooters running around and hidden inside.
It appears like the main danger is over. Even though they'll continue to call this an active shooter for a while it doesn't seem like they're too
worried about it.
CABRERA: Josh Campbell, do you agree with that? And as we look at these pictures, you do see at least some law enforcement officers just standing
there observing, it appears.
CAMPBELL: That's right. It's very telling. As we were talking about earlier, you look at the posture of the police, they're not surging into
the building. You don't see the inflow of additional emergency vehicles. And so that is telling.
It appears as though they don't see the threat continuing. But they are going to do their due diligence and going through that building. I can say
as we all know, an active shooter situation is considered an active shooter until it's not, until police are completely confident that there is no
additional threat and that requires actually going through that building. As we listened to Lieutenant Frasier (ph) there, a public information
officer, one thing he alluded to -- and this is important for us all to remember as we look at these pictures and we look at the amount of time
that's going to take to go through this, is when you are in a situation where you have an office building, you have people that are milling about,
that are moving around, if you're going to evacuate, you're going to have items left behind, bags, people dropping whatever they're doing in order to
exit the building.
And so when police show up, they had to make sure that those aren't -- those don't contain devices, that they aren't incendiary in and of
themselves, which is what you heard Lieutenant Frasier saying there, that they're going to have to make sure there aren't any additional threats that
they have to look at. So all of that's going to take time. We're going to see that come through. One thing also is we'll continue to learn and he
wasn't ready or prepared to say where exactly in the building that took place. We don't yet know if this building was exclusively this newspaper
or if there were other offices in there as well. So it's going to be far too early to determine what the motive is here or what the actual target
was until those additional details come out.
CABRERA: Again, so much we don't know. But I do want to update our viewers. We do know that they are responding -- law enforcement is
responding to what they're calling an active shooter situation at this building which we believe houses Capital Gazette, a newspaper in Annapolis,
Maryland. That's also owned by Baltimore Sun Media Company. And Baltimore Sun Media reporting that multiple people may be shot. Again, waiting for
confirmation from law enforcement on any numbers regarding injured or deceased and whether there's anybody specifically in custody at this time.
We do have some more information that the FBI and the ATF are both responding.
Tom Fuentes, the fact that federal law enforcement officials are moving in, does that provide additional information as to what may have happened?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Not really. It just says that for now, the local police are in charge. There's no indication that this
is terrorism yet. There's no indication of it being organized crime or some other type of crime that would trigger federal jurisdiction. However,
all of the police agencies have mutual assistance. So you would have the FBI and ATF and all the other law enforcement in the Annapolis area, which
means also the greater Washington, D.C. area, would be providing resources to help the local police in all the efforts that they have. Interviewing
people, searching that huge building and that would include every closet and every nook and cranny of it to see if there's anybody else hiding,
whether good guy or bad guy. So it takes a lot of resources to do that. You have a crime scene that requires laboratory technicians, evidence
experts to work that, to do the forensic investigation. So, yes, they would -- the FBI would respond, ATF, other federal agencies, the state
police, other local agencies, county police. That would all be providing assistance to the local agency that actually has the main jurisdiction.
CABRERA: We have another update from Anne Arundel police in Maryland confirming active shooter at 888 Bestgate Road in Annapolis, they tweet.
But they also write, "Building evacuated. Officers continuing to search building. Relocation point is inside Lord & Taylor in the mall.
So, Josh Campbell, it sounds like the building is evacuated, according to the tweet from Anne Arundel police. If that is the case, what happens next
in this investigation?
CAMPBELL: So that's one in a series of steps that police will have to take now. And obviously the first being to determine if they're a threat or is
there additional -- any type of threat to life. That's something that they're going to look at. Second, getting everyone out of the building,
which is sounds like they've done. And then as Tom was mentioning, they're going to have to now go through that building top to bottom, from end to
end in order to ensure that there are no threats, in order to ensure there aren't additional wounded people who are attempting to flee. But this is
something that they do, they practice for methodically. If you think about how law enforcement approaches these municipal type situations where you
have an office building, it's very much similar to the fire department, right? So a fire department, they understand the mapping of a building,
where the standpipes are, where sprinklers, that kind of thing.
So the access to the schematics of the building are going to be readily available to law enforcement. They're going to know what the building
entails in short order. And it's just a matter of going through that and ensure that they do that top to bottom search before they give the all
clear, before they give the thumbs up. And then the investigation will continue after that. So obviously, there's -- we see the pointy end of the
spear right now. The law enforcement is showing up and going and clearing the building. But once they determine who the subject is or subjects,
that's an additional part of the investigation that they're going to have to then launch in order to determine why did this person target this
particular location? As we mentioned earlier, all these people that are evacuating the building are potential sources of information. And they're
going to conduct those witness interviews to determine who this person is.
[15:35:13] I would imagine that -- and again it's very early. There's a lot we don't know. But I would imagine they're going to find out in short
order who this person was based on the CCTV and the witness statements. There have been outliers which if you recall recently here in California.
There was a YouTube shooting which was this bizarre incident with the very deranged person that it took some time in order to determine who they were
because they had no association. So that's always a factor. But again, that's all going to be part of the investigation to determine if this
someone who knew what they were doing or was just a random event.
CABRERA: I want to go back to Evan Perez. Evan, I understand you have some new information.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I'm told by law enforcement source that there are -- have been people who are wounded in this active
shooting. Police, they are still calling it an active shooting. But as Josh and I think Tom have both referred to the pictures that we're seeing,
you see people coming out. You see police sort of standing back. That tells us that they believe that they have contained this situation.
They're not saying that just yet. They're still calling this an active shooter situation. But it is clear that they believe that perhaps they
have moved into a stage where they have at least controlled the situation. I'm told by law enforcement source that it appears they have somebody in
custody who they believe may have carried out this shooting.
Now, again, there's a lot of investigative work that needs to be done. We don't know whether this person who's in custody is the person who carried
out the shooting. But at least at this point, the law enforcement people who are working on the scene there believe that they have the person
contained who carried out the shooting. We don't know the status of that person, whether that person was shot or whether that person may have taken
matters into their own hands. But it appears they believe they've contained the situation. This is why perhaps if you -- if the viewers are
looking at the picture and they're looking at police not necessarily acting in a more active manner, it sort of tells us a little bit about what the
stage of the situation is at this point.
Again, law enforcement there have not really given an official comment or an official statement update of what exactly has happened. But we're told
by people familiar with the early stages of this investigation that there are some people who were injured or wounded in this shooting that happened
in this building that houses the Capital Gazette newspaper. We don't know exactly where in the building this shooting took place. Obviously because
-- you saw messages on Twitter. There's reason to believe that it affected the newsroom of this newspaper. So again, that's the information that law
enforcement is going on. They're obviously going office by office, room by room, floor by floor in this office building to make sure they get to every
single corner and find whoever may have been responsible for this. At this point, they believe that they've isolated the person. They've taken that
person into custody and the threat for now appears to be over. But again, there's a lot of work that they need to complete here.
Now, again, Ana, they believe -- again, there's multiple injuries, multiple people wounded. There may be some fatalities by here -- when we hear from
law enforcement. There may be fatalities that we hear about. But at this point, they believe that the situation is contained.
CABRERA: We are getting word that the president as well as the first lady both at separate locations today, the president in Milwaukee, first lady
currently in Arizona, they both have been briefed on this shooting. Again, happening in Annapolis, Maryland, at the Capital Gazette newspaper building
where we are continuing to monitor live images right now from our affiliate, WJLA. We saw law enforcements on scene, crime scene tape up.
And now a confirmation, according to our Evan Perez, that one person is in custody in what police are saying is an active shooter situation. No word
or confirmation just yet on how many, if any, are injured. But early reports that there are multiple people who may have been shot. The police
there, Anne Arundel police saying that they have now evacuated the building. But the search continues through this building.
Brian Stelter, you are still with us. Again, this is the Capital Gazette newspaper. Relatively small newspaper, right? What kind of security would
BRIAN STELTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it would been low or no security. And I think that's important context as we talk about this, Ana. The
Gazette publishes multiple newspapers in and around Annapolis. It's the kind of newsroom that makes journalism great. This staff covers the
Maryland state government, the Annapolis State House. They do it all in a relatively small budget. This is the kind of newspaper readers can stop
by, members of the public can stop by. The address of this office was well-known to the public. We don't know if it was targeted. But if it
was, and if journalists were killed, this would be the first time in three years, a journalist was killed on assignment. You remember the WBBJ
shooting in 2015 when this news crew was attacked on live TV. It is thankfully very rare to see this kind of thing happen. We don't know the
full context of this incident. But we do know that there's been this rise of threats against journalists in recent years. Either way, whether this
was random or targeted, it is causing alarm in other local newsrooms. We know the police in Baltimore have arrived at the offices the Baltimore Sun,
just as a precautionary measure, just to be scene because both newspapers are owned by the same parent company.
[15:40:43] CABRERA: Josh, I want to get your reaction to this new reporting. The president, the first lady both briefed. And now Evan Perez
reporting that one person is in custody.
CAMPBELL: So first on national leadership, this is something that is standard. Obviously, officials at the White House and national security
establishment will monitor ongoing developments around the country that impact the national security. There'll be latched up with law enforcement
at various levels in order to ensure the national -- our national officials have that information and are updated, even when they're on the road. The
second thing with respect to the rest is interesting because in so many of these types of situations, unfortunately, there have been so many of them
where we see either the shooter is killed by law enforcement or kills him or herself, and then depriving us all of that source of information as far
as what went down and what was the motive behind it. With the person in custody, that is a potential intelligence collection platform. Him or her
themselves in order to provide that information to police. It'll be interesting to see, was this person overwhelmed by police when they
arrived? Did this person surrender? Did they come shooting and know that they would be taken into custody or did they intend not to leave? That
will come as that interview takes place.
And then the second thing will be, are they being cooperative with authorities? Now, police are going to verify whatever subject tells them.
They're not just going to simply believe them. But that will be interesting to see whether this person is indeed being cooperative, whether
they're unashamed what took place. They had something they wanted to act on and decided to do it or if there are other extenuating factors there
that go into why this person made this decision. That's all going to be coming out in short order. I can tell you that obviously the public --
there's great public interest here in determining what was the motive and who was responsible. I imagine police with someone in custody, they're
going to be very sparse on the details that they provide. I'm sure once they're ready to confirm that there's been an arrest, that will come out.
But we're not really going to hear a lot of those details as far as the motive until that investigation takes place, because there's one other
factor finally here and that is who was it that was in this person's orbit that may have known -- seen warning signs. Is it someone who was known to
authorities? All of that will be part of this investigation. All of that will take time.
CABRERA: There just so many questions. But again, we can confirm there's an active shooting situation happening in Annapolis, Maryland. And right
now, we understand one person is in custody. The building where this happened is the Capital Gazette building, a newspaper, daily newspaper
there. Been around since 1884, owned by Baltimore Sun Media. Circulation somewhere in 30,274 daily, a little bit more on weekends. We are now
seeing a tweet from the Maryland governor, Larry Hogan, saying, absolutely devastated to learn of this tragedy in Annapolis. I'm in contact with
county executive Steve Schuh and the Maryland police on scene assisting the police -- local police. And he says to please heed all warnings and stay
away from this area. Praying for those at the scene and for our community.
So I want to bring in Juliette Kayyem, she's former homeland security joining us on the phone.
Juliette, again, so little known on how many people may be involved and exactly who may have been the perpetrator here. What stands out to you?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I will put good news on this that the perpetrator is captive, because that's going to give a lot
of information. The question right now -- and I think it's the $64,000 question, because it will have implications about whether this is a local
story or a national story -- is who is the perpetrator and what motivated him. Was it personal? Was he a former employee? Was he the boyfriend or
friend of someone who's there a personal grievance that led to this? We've seen that before. This could be workplace violence. We've seen that
The second question or the alternative is, is this the use of violence can make a larger statement about the media today. And we have -- I'll go
straight to the jugular, there is a lot of political atmosphere coming from -- in the discourse that is targeted against fake news and the media and
particular reporters. I do not know right now -- and so we should not get ahead of the story at all -- about which of those two alternatives. But
the consequences of what the answer is, right? Is it personal or is it something larger, are going to have different ripple effects. If it was
workplace violence, you have a contained incident. You prosecute. You protect the victim. If you have something bigger, then I think other
newsrooms are going to have to take caution. We're going to have to have a serious discussion about how we treat the media, how the media is
discussed. So, obviously and once again, Ana, we have to stay tuned. We don't know yet. But that's what bene out to me and that is for me the
pivotal moment -- the pivotal question right now.
[15:45:25] CABRERA: Obviously, things are happening fast and furious on the ground there and yet the information is just trickling out our way. We
only know this is an active shooter situation happening at the scene of a newspaper building. This is the Capital Gazette in Annapolis, Maryland.
Our affiliates providing these aerial pictures for us of the scene of law enforcement moving in. We've seen several people coming out with their
hands up. The local police department tweeting that building is still being searched. They believe they have evacuated the building, telling
people where they can go to reunite with loved ones.
Charles Ramsey is a former D.C. police chief is joining us on the phone now. Chief Ramsey, when you hear what we're learning here in this
situation and are looking at some of these images and also knowing this is happening at a newspaper, at a media company, what your thoughts?
CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER WASHINGTON D.C. POLICE CHIEF: Well, first let me apologize. I've actually have a background noise. I'm in an airport
getting ready to board a flight. So I apologize for the noise.
It's too early to tell exactly what's going on. I heard Juliette mentioned and rightfully so. We don't know if this is workplace violence. This was
some individuals that have beef against the media. We just don't know yet. And I would be reluctant to draw too many conclusions. But any time
something like this happens, obviously, it's very troublesome. Right now, the police are going through the entire building. They have to floor by
floor, room by room, looking to see if there are any injured people. If there's anyone else who may be involved, word is possibly they have one
person in custody. Don't know if that's true or not. Maybe more than one person involved. I mean, you're at the very early stages right now. So
they have to clear the building. So information will be trickling out. Because they want to try to get a handle on exactly what it is that's going
on. But I'm sure that they will try to get as much information out as possible as soon as they can. But right now, this is very early on in
this. So we don't know what the heck is going on other than the fact that apparently you do have a situation where you have people wounded as we go
with an active shooter.
CABRERA: And yet, we don't have that confirmed. Does it surprise you that they haven't confirmed if there are any people actually wounded? We only
have reports from reporters who are connected to that same media company that there were multiple people wounded.
RAMSEY: Yes. Again, all that -- and I've been in situations where you try to get as much information out as possible. But the reality is, the first
bit of information you get in a situation like that usually doesn't stand up very long because the conditions change pretty rapidly. So every bit of
information you get, you have to be very careful until you're able to actually confirm whether or not people have been injured, have they been
killed, is it one person in custody, was it an employee, was it not an employee? There'll be a lot of unanswered questions right now. But those
questions will be answered as soon as they can be.
CABRERA: OK. We're going to continue to stay on top of this breaking news as we monitor several breaking news situations right now from this ongoing
active shooter situation in Annapolis, Maryland.
There's also ongoing hearings happening on Capitol Hill right now involving the FBI director Christopher Wray as well as Deputy Attorney General Rod
Rosenstein had been contentious at times and then protests from D.C. to Wisconsin to Texas over the president's immigration policies of zero
tolerance and what's been happening at the border with family separations.
Our special coverage continues right now with Jake tapper in Washington, D.C.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. We're following breaking news. Police say that there is an active shooter
situation at the offices of the Capital Gazette newspaper in Annapolis, Maryland. The law enforcement source telling CNN that multiple individuals
at the Capital Gazette have been injured. The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has tweeted that they are responding to a shooting situation -
- shooting incident at that same location. President Trump and First Lady Melania Trump had been briefed about the situation. Maryland governor,
Larry Hogan has just tweeted, warning people to stay away from the area. Stay away from the building in Annapolis where this active shooter
situation is still ongoing. CNN's Evan Perez has been talking to his sources.
And, Evan, Apparently, you learned one person is in custody?
PEREZ: That's right, Jake. We're told by law enforcement sources that at least one person is in custody. We don't know whether that person is the
shooter. They believe that that person is the one who carried out the shooting. But obviously it's still very early in this investigation and so
they are going room by room, floor by floor in that building to make sure that there's nobody else who may have been involved. They believe that
they've found the shooter and that person is isolated. Has been put in custody by law enforcement. We're told that there are multiple people who
have been wounded, there are multiple casualties there at the scene inside the newsroom of the Capital Gazette newspaper. And they believe that
includes some fatalities.
[15:50:29] So again, multiple wounded, including some fatalities, inside the newsroom of this small newspaper there in Annapolis. Again, this is
very early from the information from the scene there. Law enforcement is still obviously trying to figure out exactly -- get control of the
situation. You can see from the pictures some people are being led out of the building. Clearly, they believe that it's safe enough to bring those
people out. Again, that helps underscore the likelihood that they believe they've got some control of the situation. But again, they have to make
sure that there's nobody else in the building who may have had something to do with this. It does tell us that they believe they've got some control
in the situation. Multiple people wounded inside that newsroom and we're told multiple -- at least some fatalities.
TAPPER: And there's also obviously a difference when law enforcement says casualties, they don't necessarily mean fatalities. They mean anybody who
has been injured. But your sources are telling you specifically in addition to casualties there are fatalities, plural?
PEREZ: Right, exactly. In addition to the casualties, people who were wounded, may have been shot, some people may have been injured trying to
flee the scene. But there are people who were shot and killed as a result of this.
TAPPER: Let me bring in Josh Campbell, former FBI supervisory, special agent. Josh, the newspaper, the Capital Gazette has been around for, I
think around a century and a half or so. It's a community newspaper, well- respected in Annapolis. We don't know yet whether this is a situation based on some sort of workplace violence or whether this is animosity
towards the media or what. What exactly would the FBI be doing to try to ascertain motive in this situation?
CAMPBELL: Well, you're spot on, Jake. And it is too soon or to determine what actually took place, who was targeted. So we're not yet at a point
where we can say that the media was the target here. We have a building with people in it that worked. There was a shooting. Again, that's all
that we know. With respect to the FBI and law enforcement, right now, this would be an investigation that's being run by the locals. We saw a public
information officer from Anne Arundel County that was there providing an update to police there in Annapolis. Federal authorities will be providing
resources. Although there's not much that we can tell right now of what's going on inside the building, we can tell a lot by the posture outside.
Now, we don't see law enforcement officer surging into the building. We don't see a continued inflow of emergency vehicles. There was a mobile
command center that was arriving there shortly that was arriving very slowly, which tells you as we look at all of that that the emergent
situation appears to have been resolved. So next, we move to that investigation.
Now, with reports someone was taken into custody, that person will obviously be a gold mine of intelligence. There had been so many of these
incidents where the shooter is either killed or kills him or herself. Now that they have someone in custody, the law enforcement officers that are
conducting that interview will be working to determine why was the person there, why did they do what they did? And then lastly as we look at the
images on our screen of people that are exiting the building, every one of those people is a potential witnesses. And law enforcement officers will
have to conduct those interviews in order to tell what they saw, what they heard. All that in order to fill out exactly what took place.
TAPPER: Josh, the Anne Arundel Police, the Anne Arundel County is the county where Annapolis is that the police have tweeted this is an active
shooter situation. They have not said that the active shooter situation is over yet. Have they?
CAMPBELL: They haven't. And again, we talk about terminology. Situation is an active shooter situation until the police tell us it's not. What's
going on, we can guarantee is that law enforcement officers will be searching that building top to bottom in order to determine there aren't
additional threats and there aren't additional victims. Obviously, in these types of situations, if you have people that hear gunfire they're
going to flee. Do they hide in a closet, do they hide in another office? Could there be other people out there? Highly unlikely but possible that
may have also been involved. So that will all be part of this coordinated effort to go search the building top to bottom and law enforcement officers
will ensure that they are 100 percent certain that there was no additional threat, no additional casualties or injuries before they send out the all
TAPPER: Let me bring in CNN law enforcement analyst, James Gagliano. He joins me now on the phone. James, if you could talk about the active
shooter situation. What does that mean for local police or the ATF or the FBI as they come to the scene? What are they doing to make sure that this
one individual in custody is the only individual responsible for the shooting?
JAMES GAGLIANO, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Jake, that's the number one concern for law enforcement. If you've got one person in custody or
one person down to make certain that there aren't other bad actors involved, because the first piece of this is crisis resolution. We have to
stop the bad guys, the bad people from doing those things. And then we move into the next piece, which is consequence management or working on the
investigative piece of this.
So that's the number one thing. And I can tell you right now from being around the country and talking in front of law enforcement audiences about
this very topic, how to deal with active shooter situations, this is something that police departments are taking very, very, very seriously.
There are approximately 1.2 million law enforcement officers in this country. If you don't think that police departments around the country and
around the globe are not looking at this very hard right now and trying to figure out a way with limited resources to deal with these type of
circumstances, because it's happening in Texas, it's happening in Georgia, it's happening Florida, it's happening in the D.C. area, it's happening in
Belgium. It's happening around the globe. And what law enforcement has got to understand, we've got to move away from this paradigm of contain and
The first thing we have to do is we have to go to the sound of the guns. There are no more scenarios of recent where folks are looking to take
hostages and negotiate their way out. They are looking to cause damage. In a situation like this, I heard Juliette speak to it earlier, we don't
know the motivations here. So we want to be very careful. We don't want to jump to assumptions. Obviously, this is a media outlet. Obviously,
this is a place where news is generated and news is reported on. But we've got to be careful. Motivations are important for law enforcement, because
it helps us prevent next one. It helps us disassemble what might have taken place and helps us bring the investigation to a conclusion. Right
now, the first thing first is to make sure that people are safe and then the next thing is to move into the investigative portion and try to figure
out what motivated somebody to do what they did.
[15:55:40] TAPPER: Also joining me on the phone right now is CNN law enforcement analyst, Jonathan Wackrow.
Jonathan, how exactly the police go about searching a building like this obviously. It's not a small building.
JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: No, it's absolutely not. It's over 130,000 square feet space. It is a professional services
building. Yes, it did house the Capital Gazette. But there are also other businesses that were located within this building. To Jim's point earlier,
law enforcement, immediate response by law enforcement is to put that threat down. Go to the sound of the gunfire, address the threat and ensure
that the immediacy of the threat is being stopped. Once that is done, they need to ascertain, in this building, within this vicinity, is there
anything else we need to do. So the methodical search of each executive suite, each floor, every closet, HVAC system, everything will take time.
So this is an active investigation that's going on right now. It's still dynamic.
Remember, this building 888 Bestgate sits right across from the Anne Arundel medical center and is in between the Annapolis mall. Heavily
populated area. So law enforcement wants to make sure that the populous in the area is also secure, that there are no secondary -- this is still a
very dynamic situation within the area. As you can see from some of the footage, law enforcement at this site maybe taking a more reduced posture.
I can tell you that Anne Arundel is probably in the vicinity securing and beefing up all of these key locations around the site.
TAPPER: And this just in to CNN, one patient has been received at the University of Maryland Medical Center from this Annapolis shooting. The
active shooter situation still going on. That's according to the director of media relations for the hospital. No other information on this patient
is available at this time. We don't know the extent of the injuries, the age or the gender of the individual.
I want to bring in CNN's Jessica Schneider. And, Jessica, as it's not uncommon for journalists, a lot of us first learned about this shooting
because an intern at the Capital Gazette was tweeting information out. And the crime reporter for the Gazette, for the Capital Gazette has also been
tweeting about the incident, Phil Davis, I believe is his name. What is he saying?
JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's exactly right, Jake. As we're seeing these pictures outside, Phil Davis, one of the reporters there
at the Capital Gazette, he's really giving us an inside look at the newsroom via Twitter. So this reporter, his name is Phil Davis, he's the
courts and crime reporter there at the Capital Gazette. He's tweeted out to give a bit of insight as to what is happening inside this newsroom. Let
me read for you the tweets that he's put out. The first one says, gunman shot through the glass door to the office and opened fire on multiple
employees. Can't say much more and don't want to declare anyone dead but it's bad. Phil Davis also tweeting a second tweet saying there's nothing
more terrifying than hearing multiple people get shot while you are under your desk and then hear the gunman reload. So terrifying descriptions of
what had happened inside the newsroom there. These are two tweets from the courts and crime reporter who was inside that newsroom when this gunman
opened fire. This reporter describing exactly what happened.