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STATE OF THE UNION

Nationwide Protests Over Trump Family Separation Policy; Interview With Maine Senator Susan Collins; Interview With Illinois Senator Tammy Duckworth; Trump Celebrates Potentially Legacy-Defining Week; Progressive Wins Highlight Divide In Democratic Party; Democratic Senators Join Push To Abolish And Replace ICE; President Trump's Supreme Court Pick In This Week's "State of the Cartoonion". Aired 9-10a ET

Aired July 1, 2018 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[09:00:17]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): Supreme politics. President Trump prepares to pick his second Supreme Court nominee.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have a very excellent list of great talent.

TAPPER: Who could solidify conservative control of the nation's highest court.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: I always look for judges who respect precedent.

TAPPER: A Republican who could be the deciding vote, Senator Susan Collins, responds live next.

Plus: immigration outrage. Protesters take to the streets nationwide, as lawmakers and a judge demand calls to reunite families faster.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I could only imagine what it would be like to have my breast-feeding child ripped away from me.

TAPPER: What is the Trump administration's plan? Is there one?

Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth will be here in moments.

And Trump's golden age. President Trump celebrates a week of political and judicial victories.

TRUMP: The red wave is happening.

TAPPER: As Democrats face a growing activist left.

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: We have to create a lot of pressure.

TAPPER: Is the Trump presidency reshaping the Democratic Party even more than the GOP?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Hello. I'm Jake Tapper in Washington, where the state of our union is gearing up for a summer fight.

President Trump is taking a working weekend at his golf club in Bedminster, New Jersey. He plans to announce a nominee to replace Justice Anthony Kennedy on the Supreme Court only eight days from now, on July 9.

Saturday, the president spoke over the phone to White House counsel Don McGahn and is expected to interview one or two candidates for that seat this weekend. Democrats warn that the president's choice could put abortion rights, same-sex marriage, and affirmative action at risk.

The campaign to sway votes on Capitol Hill is in full swing. One day after Justice Kennedy announced his retirement, the president hosted a group of senators whose votes likely will decide whether his nominee is confirmed.

Three are Democrats facing tough reelection battles in red states that Trump won in 2016, and two are Republican women, Senators Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins. They support abortion rights and have voted against the president's agenda in the past.

And Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine is joining me now. She's also a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator Collins, thanks so much for joining us, as always.

I want to start on the White House meeting you had with President Trump on Thursday night about that Supreme Court vacancy. It's no secret that you could be a, if not the deciding vote on this nomination. What did President Trump tell you to try to get your vote?

COLLINS: Well, the president really was soliciting my views on the type of nominee that I was looking for.

I emphasized that I wanted a nominee who would respect precedent, a fundamental tenet of our judicial system. I also encouraged the president to broaden his list beyond the list of 25 potential nominees that has been public for some time.

TAPPER: Well, that -- that list of 25 names, let's talk about it for one second.

Are you comfortable with everyone on that list?

COLLINS: No, I am not.

Now, some of the people on the list, I have not vetted at all at this point. One of them, I voted against years ago. And I would have to do a great deal more work on many of them. TAPPER: You know, President Trump says he's not going to ask the

candidates whether they would vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade. That's what he says today.

But I want you to take a listen to what he told me about this issue during the very first days of his candidacy on this show. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I know you're opposed to abortion. How important is that issue to you now when President Trump picks Supreme Court justices? Would that be a litmus test?

TRUMP: It is. It is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump saying -- then he was a candidate, now he's a president -- saying abortion is a litmus test for him.

You say Roe is settled law. Given the president's comments, is it fair to expect that any nominee he selects will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade?

COLLINS: Well, the president told me in our meeting that he would not ask that question.

And that is what he has most recently said, on the advice of his attorney. So, I think what he said as the candidate may not have been informed by the legal advice that he now has, that it would be inappropriate for him to ask a nominee how he or she would rule on a specific issue.

TAPPER: With all due respect, the Supreme Court, as we know, it overturns its own rulings all the time. It has overruled more than 200 of its own decisions, once just last week.

[09:05:08]

And it is a stated goal of President Trump and Vice President Pence to appoint Supreme Court justices who will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade.

I mean, whether they said it on the campaign trail or they say it now is almost immaterial. It's a stated goal.

Take a listen to Vice President Pence. This is him campaigning for the job in 2016.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We appoint strict constructionists to the Supreme Court of United States, as Donald Trump intends to. I believe we will see Roe vs. Wade consigned to the ash heap of history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: "The ash heap of history."

A lot of women around the country are looking to you right now. Almost seven in 10 women, according to a new poll, want Roe vs. Wade to stay intact.

What do you say to those women who say, what are you going to do here? How are you going to protect this right?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, let me say that there's big difference between overturning some precedents, such as Plessy vs. Ferguson, which was overturned in the school desegregation case of Brown vs. the Board of Education, vs. overturning a ruling that has been settled law for 46 years -- 45 years.

And it involves a constitutional right and has been reaffirmed by the court 26 years ago. Indeed, Justice Roberts has made very clear that he considers Roe v. Wade to be settled law.

I would not support a nominee who demonstrated hostility to Roe v. Wade, because that would mean to me that their judicial philosophy did not include a respect for established decisions, established law.

And I believe that that is a very important, fundamental tenet of our judicial system, which, as Chief Justice Roberts says, helps to promote stability and even-handedness.

TAPPER: So, you will not support anyone who has demonstrated hostility towards Roe vs. Wade, but there are plenty of justices that The Federalist Society and other experts likely think will vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade, but they don't have a record of hostility towards Roe vs. Wade.

For instance, don't you think, just as an academic matter, Neil Gorsuch, for whom you voted, don't you think he is probably going to vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade if given the chance?

COLLINS: I actually don't.

I had a very long discussion with Justice Gorsuch in my office, and he pointed out to me that he is a co-author of a whole book on precedent. So, someone who devotes that much time to writing a book on precedent, I think, understands how important a principle that is in our judicial system.

TAPPER: You know that there are a lot...

COLLINS: You know, Jake...

TAPPER: Go ahead. I'm sorry.

COLLINS: There are many judges who have said to me that, if you are not unhappy with some of your decisions, then you're not a good judge.

I think judges have to have the ability to put aside their personal views, and rule on the facts of the case with fidelity to the law and the Constitution.

TAPPER: I don't have to tell you this, but you're going to get a lot of pressure from groups and individuals who support abortion rights.

And one of the things that they think about you is that you get played by these judges and that, ultimately, if you vote to support whoever President Trump nominee -- nominates, presuming that person comes from this list of 25, that one of your longest-lasting legacies is likely going to be that you voted to confirm a justice who ultimately tipped the balance of power, political power, on the court and voted to overturn Roe.

COLLINS: Well, I know that's what the left is saying.

And that's just so at odds with my record. I have year after year been named the most bipartisan member of the whole United States Senate. I have proved my independence.

And, more important, I care deeply about who serves on the court. I have voted against justices and I -- I mean, judges, and I have voted for them. I supported both of President Obama's appointments to the Supreme Court.

And I always have the same kinds of discussions in my office. I do a lot of work on the record of the appointee. And I ask probing questions to try to determine whether they are going to be an activist judge with an agenda, which I don't want on either the left or the right.

[09:10:12]

I want a judge who will apply the law to the facts of the case, with fidelity to the Constitution. Roe v. Wade is a constitutional right that is well-established. And no less an authority than Chief Justice Roberts said that repeatedly at his confirmation hearing.

TAPPER: You're on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

I want to get your views about this new report in "The Washington Post" saying that American intelligence communities have concluded that North Korea does not actually intend to denuclearize, and North Korea is now working on ways to conceal how many nuclear weapons and production facilities it has.

This, of course, comes fewer than three weeks after President Trump declared that the nuclear threat from North Korea is over.

What do you know about this? And do you think the president is getting played by North Korea?

COLLINS: This is a very troubling report. There's no doubt about it.

And North Korea has a long history of cheating on agreements that it's made with previous administrations.

I supported the president talking with the North Korean dictator because I do believe that has the potential for increasing our safety and eventually leading to the denuclearization of North Korea.

But there's no doubt that, in order to achieve that goal, we need verifiable, unimpeded, reliable inspections. And, without those inspections, we can have no guarantee that North Korea is not cheating once again.

TAPPER: When you see President Trump say things like the threat, the nuclear threat from North Korea is over, are you concerned that he's getting played?

COLLINS: I don't think that the threat is over.

And I think that the president has advisers who will come to him, brief him about these alleged new findings, and that he will be cautious in proceeding. And he should be, because the record of North Korea is one of broken promises.

I will point out that there have not been tests of nuclear weapons, nor ballistic missiles, since the president met with the North Korean dictator.

TAPPER: Senator Susan Collins of Maine, thank you so much for your time. We always appreciate it.

COLLINS: Thank you.

TAPPER: One Democratic senator and mom says that the president's immigration policy is -- quote -- "deeply personal" and joins a protest with her baby in her arms.

Senator Tammy Duckworth, Democrat of Illinois, is demanding answers from the Trump administration. Has she gotten any response?

We will ask her next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:16:46]

TAPPER: Welcome back to STATE OF THE UNION. I'm Jake Tapper.

Thousands of protesters across the nation took to the streets this weekend demanding an end to the president's zero tolerance immigration policy at the border, which has resulted in more than 2,000 children being taken from their parents.

Chants of "We care" and "Abolish ICE" even rang through a Senate office building Thursday.

Also in the crowd, Democratic lawmakers, including Senator Tammy Duckworth, Democrat of Illinois, who brought her newborn baby, this as more leaders from the Democratic Party embrace calls from the far left to speak out and even call for the abolition of ICE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We need to rebuild our immigration system from top to bottom, starting by replacing ICE with something that reflects our morality.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining me now, Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth of Illinois. She's an Iraq War veteran.

And, of course, I want to recognize your service on this July 4 weekend. Thank you so much for that.

I know that July 4 is not specifically a veterans day, but it is a day when I think a lot about the people who fight for the freedoms of this country.

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D), ILLINOIS: Thanks.

TAPPER: So, thank you so much.

Let's start with the fact that your fellow Democratic Senators Gillibrand, Warren, and Harris have joined the rallying call to abolish and replace ICE.

Do you agree?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I just think that, if you abolish ICE as it is as an executive agency, it reflects the policies of the White House, of the president.

You abolish ICE now, you still have the president with the same failed policies. Whatever you replace it with is just going to still reflect what this president wants to do.

TAPPER: So, no, you don't support abolishing ICE?

DUCKWORTH: I -- you know, I -- I think there's a lot of other things we can do before we get to that point, first of which, which is you have got someone in the White House who has these policies which are horrendous, which he still hasn't fixed.

And families are still separated. Children are still in cages. Nursing babies are still separated from their moms.

TAPPER: Let's talk about this.

You sent a letter to the Trump administration Thursday demanding answers on exactly how they are going to reunite these children with the parents, asking for a plan to have these families in touch within 72 hours.

Today marks the deadline of your demand of the administration. Have you heard anything back? And, frankly, do you even think they have a plan to reunite these families? DUCKWORTH: Well, that's precisely my concern, that they don't have a

plan, I -- that's my suspicion.

I don't think they even really know where all of these children are and who these children belong to. And, remember, some of these children are so young, that they don't even know their parents' names. So, we could end up with kids who are separated from their parents for a very long time.

Many have already entered into the foster care system. No, I have not heard from the administration. And I'm deeply concerned that these children are going to remain separated from their parents.

TAPPER: Will you support Senator Ted Cruz's plan to keep families together and double the number of judges at the border to move the cases along more quickly? Wouldn't that solve the problem?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I haven't seen the details of his plan.

I can tell you that, if we have someone who has come to this country seeking asylum, they should be heard in a timely manner, and we should process that case. And, in the meantime, we should not be separating families.

TAPPER: I want to turn to the new vacancy at the Supreme Court.

Just hours after Justice Kennedy announced his retirement, you pulled out this tweet taking -- pulled out this tweet taking a swipe at Mitch McConnell, using his own words from 2016 to argue for delaying the vote on President Trump's nominee until after the midterms.

You wrote -- quote -- "The American people should have a voice in the selection of their next Supreme Court justice." That's exactly what McConnell, except he did hashtag -- what did he do? -- #SCOTUS, I guess.

[09:20:07]

And you did the hashtag Kennedy -- #Scalia, #Scaliaseat. You did #Kennedy.

Mitch McConnell, the Senate majority leader, said that you and other critics who are using that quote against him and that policy against him are -- are all wrong, this is very different from then.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MAJORITY LEADER: This is not 2016. There aren't the final months of a second-term constitutionally lame- duck presidency with a presidential election fast approaching.

We're right in the middle of this president's very first term.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: How do you respond?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I think Mitch McConnell is someone who is very cynical, and he will do whatever he needs to do. I think he's demonstrated that.

Who I would want to talk to are my colleagues who are casting their votes. Those votes are very consequential.

And, you know, Lisa Murkowski, who is my next-door neighbor, I would say to her, look, you said that this should not be done before a major election back when it was Merrick Garland, that this would be a political football. Let's listen to that.

We're talking about someone who, on the Supreme Court, could end Roe v. Wade, could help to overturn much of the legislation that protects not just a woman's right to choose, but health care.

There are many cases running their way through the justice system right now. And so I would say to my colleagues, who have shown some real bravery -- both Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski have shown me some incredible bravery in these last -- my first couple of years in the Senate -- to don't just trust that what somebody says to you in a conversation trying to get your vote is what's going to happen when they are on the Supreme Court.

TAPPER: Well, what did you think of Susan Collins just there, what she told me, she doesn't think that Chief Justice Roberts would vote to overturn Roe vs. Wade, because he has assured her that he respects precedent?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I would say that Justice Gorsuch told her that he would respect precedent, and yet he has voted against precedent just this week with the Janus case.

If anything, this president, this administration is all about overturning precedents. And I don't think that a president should be able to appoint someone who could potentially sit on a case and decide a case against that sitting president.

I think that we should wait and let the American people have their say. Let's get through the election. We're just four months away. That's not a long time. And then let's take a look at these nominees.

TAPPER: There are obviously a lot of Democrats from red states, states that Trump won, who are up for reelection this year.

There's going to be a lot of pressure on them, Heitkamp from North Dakota, Donnelly from Indiana, Manchin from West Virginia. Some of them are even opponents of abortion rights.

What do you think? Should they vote the way that they need to vote to win reelection, if it comes down to that, or do you think they should vote the way that their party wants them to vote?

DUCKWORTH: I will tell you what I have learned in my short time here in the Senate, that those -- all three of them vote in whatever they need to do to take care of the people of their state.

They put their constituents first. And I have seen some real bravery from the three of them as well. Manchin, for example, has said time and again that he will protect health care for the people of West Virginia. Same with Heidi Heitkamp.

They -- who they put first is not themselves, is not the party. They put their own states and the people -- their constituents first. And I just ask them to vote for their constituents. And they will know which way to vote then.

TAPPER: There were obviously a lot of shockwaves in the Democratic Party Tuesday night, when 28-year-old Democratic socialist Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez defeated the fourth-ranking Democrat in the House, Joe Crowley, has a platform of Medicare for all, federal jobs guarantee, free college tuition.

Is this the future of the Democratic Party?

DUCKWORTH: I think it's the future of the party in the Bronx, where she is.

I think that we, as legislators, need to listen to our constituency and get out there. I think what she did was, she did the hard work. She pounded the pavement, and she was out there talking to every one of her constituents. And I think that was the difference.

She turned out her voters and reflected the needs of her district.

TAPPER: Are you concerned at all that your party is going too far to the left to either win in the midterms or win back the White House?

DUCKWORTH: Well, I think that you can't win the White House without the Midwest. And I don't think that you can go too far to the left and still win the Midwest.

Coming from a Midwestern state, I think you need to be able to talk to the Industrial Midwest. You need to listen to the people there in order to win an election nationwide.

TAPPER: So, this is the last day of your maternity leave.

DUCKWORTH: It is.

TAPPER: You just had a baby in April. You pushed for Senate rules to be changed, so senators can bring children onto the floor and your baby onto the floor.

How are your male colleagues adapting to this new rule?

DUCKWORTH: They are great, and they have been very, very bipartisan about it.

I hope that they will keep that in mind when we start looking at the Supreme Court nominee. You know, Roe v. Wade is important to me. I would not be able to have both of my beautiful children and my newborn daughter without IVF. And their abolishment of Roe v. Wade could actually deny those of us who use IVF the ability to seek fertility treatments.

[09:25:03]

TAPPER: Senator Duckworth, it's an honor to have you here on this Fourth of July weekend. Again, thank you for your service. Appreciate it.

DUCKWORTH: Thank you. It's good to be here.

TAPPER: This week, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of Trump's travel ban and handed him another pick to for the high court.

The president getting more powerful, but could it come back to hurt the Republicans in some way? We will discuss next.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: You know, a year-and-a-half ago, they said I was an interloper.

How bad is that, an interloper? And now they say, and you will admit, a thing comes out, a big poll, in a couple of polls, a number of polls, that he's the most powerful, most

[09:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: How bad is that? An interloper. And now they say, and you will admit, a thing comes out, a big poll, and a couple of polls.

A number of polls that he's the most powerful, most popular Republican in the history of the party. And a little while ago I was an interloper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was President Trump in a rally discussing his value to the GOP after a week in which key court decisions and retirement announcement, positioned Trump to become one of the most consequential Republican presidents ever. My panel is here with me.

Amanda Carpenter, let me start with you. You're a Republican and frequent critic of President Trump. But does the fact that he will have a legacy by the mid-terms of tax cut and likely two Supreme Court justices, make him somebody that the Republicans rightly are rallying around? AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I mean, even for Trump's skeptical Republicans you have to say, was it worth it? And to change the course of the court for a generation or more, certainly causes people to rethink things for every bad Trump tweet, you can look at the future of that bench and make a coherent argument that it's worth it.

TAPPER: And all of that -- I have to ask you, Karine, this week we also saw the court uphold the president's travel ban saying that he had the right to do it. What impact might that have and what impact might this new Supreme Court fight have on Democrats? Demoralizing or, you know, getting out the vote?

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, SENIOR ADVISER, MOVEON.ORG: I think it's getting out the vote because we are -- you already see a momentum already with the Democratic Party and just the base. And this is a base election when you think about mid-terms. I think this is one more thing, I have to say to be honest, the SCOTUS pick has not been something that has ginned up the base, it's been an electoral issue for sure for Republicans.

So we really have to put that out there as a party as candidates are out there and make sure that folks are aware that everything is at stake when you're looking at the SCOTUS pick, everything that we worked for for decades is on stake, abortion, working -- worker's rights, everything, same-sex marriage, LGBTQ rights, everything that we have worked so hard for now could be gone.

TAPPER: What's your argument to Republicans? You're a Democratic congressman from a very Democratic area, what's your argument to Republicans who say, well, you know, I'm not crazy about his tweets, I'm not crazy about his personal behavior but he is very consequential and he's doing a lot of things I want him to?

REP. NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, I'm not sure I'm hearing that from my Republican colleagues quite a number of them have expressed concerns about some of the things the president is tweeting about. And I think frankly, you know, what happened with the tax is really creating a bigger income inequality between the haves and have nots.

And I think the legacy that this president is creating really is turning back the clock a hundred years. It's creating an era of disenfranchisement. And I think that is a concern.

And I'm hoping that the voters are going to look at this and this will motivate them because if this will not, I don't know what will.

TAPPER: David, you've been a supporter of the president from the very beginning.

DAVID URBAN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Clearly. Listen, today in the front page of "The New York Times," a big article by our friend Jonathan (ph) Martin, talking about how consequential this is. This president is so consequential that Dick Durbin says that he's reshaping the Democratic Party, OK? And the court this week -- this past week too and Janus, the decision in Janus, cutting the funding saying that public sector unions no longer are allowed to take money from their employees for dues. That's going to debilitate the party because that's a top-down function.

The parties govern from top-down. It's going to eviscerate public sector unions. You're going to lose that support as well.

And, as Amanda earlier point about this president in the judiciary, Dana Bash, your colleague here, had a report up in the website, had a piece done where 12 judges in 2017, no other president has appointed more judges in one year than this president, 12. He's 88 waiting in the Senate to be confirmed and they did about 50 -- 45 more on the circuit and the district court. So in terms of reshaping the judiciary --

TAPPER: Yes.

URBAN: -- people look at the Supreme Court, about 99.9 percent of the cases are heard at district and appellate courts, totally reshaped.

TAPPER: Very consequential. But one of the reasons why the Trump presidency continues to give his supporters, maybe except you, David, a headache is because there might be a big win in a great week and then there is this -- an outright falsehood. Take a look at the tweet from President Trump on Saturday.

He tweeted, "I never push the Republicans in the House to vote for the immigration bill GOODLATTE 1 or 2" -- that's referring to legislation.

But just three days before that another tweet, same account, "House Republicans should pass the strong but fair immigration bill, known as GOODLATTE II."

I mean, just a complete contradiction and I know this is one of the things that you as a conservative Republican, who is a Trump skeptic are concerned about just -- the standard of truth that is being eroded (ph).

CARPENTER: Yes. And also as someone that wants to see stuff done on immigration this is chaotic, it's confusing. There's no game plan to secure the border and do anything but play politics with this issue -- on both sides.

[09:35:06]

And so, you know, as a Tea Party type Republican who has worries about Trump, I know people held their nose and wept for them because they believed he would build a wall, he would get things done. Those sets of tweets shows that he has no capability of doing so --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Does it matter? DIAZ BARRAGAN: I think this is the problem. This is why we can't negotiate with this president. Nobody can believe what he says. It's obvious he's lying outright.

URBAN: Come on --

DIAZ BARRAGAN: I was at the Capitol when he came down to talk to Republicans in a closed door session and as he was walking out tried to talk to the president about the policy. I saw firsthand the press conference he did where one of my colleagues talking about the immigration plan.

This is the hard part in dealing with this president. His constant lying and what can we trust and not trust when we would rather (ph) --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Listen, those tweets are complete contradictions.

URBAN: OK. Let's -- I'm not going to focus on tweets. I'm going to focus on what this president has proposed, path for citizenship for --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I know but the problem is that Democrats don't --

URBAN: -- DACA --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: -- and even Republicans are concerned about trying to negotiate with him because he contradicts himself.

URBAN: This is the president, is a negotiator, it's what he's doing.

Listen, where are the Democrats, where are the House Republicans on the president's proposal? The "Washington Post" said listen, should have taken the deal, a little bit of wall money for DACA -- a DACA deal and immigration? This path to citizenship? And the Democrats turn it away.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: No --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: No. First of all -- first of all -- first of all Donald Trump created the crisis with DACA.

URBAN: No, he didn't create --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: Yes, he did. He did.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Barack Obama created the crisis.

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: Let me -- let me finish.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Barack Obama created the crisis.

JEAN-PIERRE: Let me finish. Let me finish. You guys had your turn.

URBAN: Barack Obama created the crisis, Karine.

JEAN-PIERRE: Let me finish. He created the crisis by saying it was working and he decided, you know what? I'm not going to do DACA.

URBAN: It wasn't working. It wasn't constitutional.

JEAN-PIERRE: And then he asked -- wait a minute, he asked for a bipartisanship. He was given bipartisan senators on both sides came to him and said, hey, here's what we have. He wanted a bill of love.

They proposed that. They mentioned TPS then all the sudden we hear about -- whole countries from African and brown countries, right?

And so he doesn't know what he wants. And he is so contradictory when he says one thing and then changes to another thing. He gets what -- they gave him what --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: David --

URBAN: Listen --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: He didn't take it. And then (INAUDIBLE) forget (ph) where we are today. We are in a humanitarian crisis --

URBAN: To say -- to say -- Karine, it's my turn. It is my turn?

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Let David give the last word here.

URBAN: To say that this president created the DACA crisis --

JEAN-PIERRE: He did.

URBAN: -- is flat out false.

JEAN-PIERRE: He unilaterally --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Let's talk about -- no, Karine, it's my turn -- my turn.

President Obama unconstitutionally put forward the DACA program. He even acknowledged at the time, probably can't do this, we can't get dreamers through (ph) so this is what I'm going to do, true or false?

Amanda -- Amanda disagree with the president. It's unconstitutional.

JEAN-PIERRE: It worked. It worked. It worked. It worked. It worked.

(CROSSTALK)

CARPENTER: Until when and what that action will be needed will be decided by Congress.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Well, the court struck down -- so, Congresswoman, the court struck down DACA, deferred action for parents and they were in the process of striking down DACA.

DIAZ BARRAGAN: They upheld DACA.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Hold on. Let's let the congresswoman have the last word here.

DIAZ BARRAGAN: There is a current bipartisan solution we can't get a vote on in the House. That's --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: Back to the point --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: -- created this crisis.

DIAZ BARRAGAN: This president -- this president was in a room at the White House and the bipartisan --

(CROSSTALK)

DIAZ BARRAGAN: -- and one (INAUDIBLE) he said, oh, I'm fine, we're doing clean dream. And then three hours later went back to --

(CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: The point is he did not create this crisis. (CROSSTALK)

JEAN-PIERRE: But he's not fixing it. (INAUDIBLE) but he's not fixing it.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Let's take a quick break because we have a lot to talk about about tensions in the Democratic Party as well after a progressive young outsider toppled the party leader.

Could a rising blue wipe out the Democratic establishment?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELOSI: Well, I'm female. I'm progressive. I'm -- and the rest. So what's your problem? Two out of three ain't bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:42:55]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D), NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL NOMINEE: I think that we're in the middle of a movement in this country, a lot of really exciting races with extremely similar dynamics as mine. It's not just one district.

PELOSI: Nobody's district is representative of somebody else's district. It's just a sign of vitality of our party, not a rubber stamp.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The new generation of Democrats and the old singing different tunes on the direction of the Democratic Party but is the division in the party a sign of a new movement or just as Pelosi says vitality? My panel is here with me.

And, Congresswoman, you were Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez before she was.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: You ran against an establishment candidate for your congressional seat. You were to his left. You beat him in the primary or the runoff rather and then -- and then you are now the president of the freshman class.

My question for you, does the Democratic Party, especially in the House need new leadership?

DIAZ BARRAGAN: You know, I think the Democratic Party is diverse. I think there's a lot of young members of Congress who would be great in leadership positions, that's something that we have seen Nancy Pelosi try to get in the last term.

And so there is no doubt there's hunger for new faces. There's no doubt there's hunger for new voices but we're a party of inclusion and we're pretty diverse, whether it's on age, whether it's on race and it's so great to see women taking over this cycle and women coming ahead.

We saw that in what happened to Alexandria, I'm credit to her, she started early, she knocked on doors. She spoke to voters in her district. Something I have a lost experience with.

TAPPER: The congresswoman not surprisingly is being diplomatic. Let me ask you because maybe you --

(LAUGHTER)

JEAN-PIERRE: As she should be.

TAPPER: Maybe you won't be as diplomatic. Does the Democratic Party, especially in the House, need new leadership?

JEAN-PIERRE: I think they need to work on it absolutely. Look, you have -- you have a situation where when you look at Alexandria you see that young people are not waiting anymore.

They are not going to wait their turn. They're not going to be told -- they've been told --

TAPPER: They've been waiting a long time.

JEAN-PIERRE: Yes. Exactly.

So they're saying, no, we're going to go out there. At 28 she took a chance. She had no idea if she was going to win or not.

All she knew is that I'm going to talk about the issues, the issues that that matter in my district, and it worked. And she spent time in her district. She shook hands and the district has changed in the last 20 years, which we're seeing in a lot of different districts across the country.

[09:45:05]

So that matters, talking to the voters, talking about the issues that matter. And the thing is people are saying that, oh, the issues that she talked about only mattered in her district. It's not true.

She talked about fair wages. She talked about health care. She talked about equality.

That matters across the board with the Democratic Party.

TAPPER: David, I want your reaction, because one of the things going on here is not just generational, a lot of these candidates are more progressive.

URBAN: Sure. Absolutely.

TAPPER: As certainly the congresswoman was and more progressive than her main opponent in her race. Also is true with Ocasio-Cortez.

President Trump seizing on the number of prominent Democrats who are seeming to move to the left, some of them are calling for the abolishment and the replacement of ICE, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, including Gillibrand and Warren. You heard Duckworth say she does not think that that is necessary.

President Trump wrote in a tweet -- quote -- "The Liberal Left, also known as the Democrats, want to get rid of ICE, who do a fantastic job, and want Open Borders. Crime would be rampant and uncontrollable. Make America great again."

Is this opening the door for Republicans to fend off a blue wave?

URBAN: Listen, you know, where I'm sitting, I love -- I love that movement. I'm so happy that we have a new congresswoman in the Queens, right? Her victory is great because it ensures that that gap closes, right?

When you're Conor Lamb in Western Pennsylvania, much harder to win with an abolish ICE movement, that says, you know, no borders, no nations, end deportation, right? So there is a radical left movement which is going to make it much, much tougher for the Democrats to take over in 2018 and all but ensure President Trump's victory in 2020.

CARPENTER: Yes. I would say we have to talk about the S word, and by that I mean socialist.

URBAN: Yes.

CARPENTER: We have leaders in the Democratic Party, the new faces Bernie Sanders who campaigned on a socialist agenda. We're talking abolish ICE, free Medicare for all without any plan to pay for it --

TAPPER: They call themselves socialists.

CARPENTER: Yes. Absolutely. We're not even like sugar coating it anymore.

TAPPER: They're members of Democratic Socialists of America. Yes.

CARPENTER: So how far left is the party going? I think that makes many Democrats uncomfortable.

And what really gave me pause in the last week were the massive arrests on Capitol Hill, on Friday. Do people have a right to protest? Absolutely.

Is the family detention policy outrageous? Absolutely. There were 575 arrests in the U.S. Capitol on Friday.

Now when the party tolerates that and Democratic senators are sitting with them encouraging it, I think it's a step back, where are you going?

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Are you concerned that the party is going to the left? I'll come to you in a second, Karine.

Are you concerned the party is going too far left?

DIAZ BARRAGAN: I'm not concerned that the party is going to the left. What I'm concerned about is what's happening at the border and the separation of families. And the reality is this president will do anything he can to stop the conversation about our children being ripped apart from their parents and we need to keep a focus.

The focus has to be sure, that ICE has been misused and abused by this president. Doesn't help to have a zero tolerance policy. We should be focused on ending that zero tolerance policy and focused on keeping families together --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: You don't support ending ICE?

DIAZ BARRAGAN: I'm with Senator Kamala Harris. Let's look at it. Let's reexamine it.

But the reality is that -- let's not keep -- let's keep focused on the prize --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Doesn't -- doesn't the changing of the subject from the zero tolerance policy to abolishing ICE, which Democrats have led that change of conversation, not President Trump, doesn't that help President Trump?

JEAN-PIERRE: No. I actually think it's all related.

Just yesterday there were hundreds of thousands of people who came out against the ripping of children from their parents across the country. In red states and blue states, in rural America people came out. Many for the first time, many having protests they've never seen that large in their small area of town.

So that matters here that people are energized around this issue. They are talking about the immigration policies.

When it comes to ICE, this is what I have to say about that. Donald Trump during his election said that he wanted to -- he wanted a deportation force. And that's what ICE has become, a deport force.

There was a letter that came out just last week that was from 19 of the 26 crime investigators who are part of ICE who have asked now to divorce themselves from ICE because of the immigration policy is so hard line that they can't be part --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: So it's telling when the congressional Hispanic caucus and members like this fine woman here, say we should not end ICE, no borders, no nations.

Come on. That's the chant. That's the chant.

(CROSSTALK)

DIAZ BARRAGAN: The members of Congress --

TAPPER: Yes.

DIAZ BARRAGAN: -- need to push to be able to have access --

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: You don't want --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: OK. That's all the time we have. I apologize.

Happy Fourth of July to everyone here. God bless America.

Conservatives are waiting with baited breath to hear who President Trump will pick for Supreme Court. But what if the president forgoes his list for a more Trumpian pick? That's the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:54:12]

TAPPER: Welcome back.

In just eight days we will know who President Trump is nominating for the Supreme Court. If there's one thing we've learned about the president, however, is that we should expect the unexpected. And that's the subject of this week's "State of the Cartoonion."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): The Supreme Court is front and center once again and President Trump needs to make a ruling fast.

TRUMP: We have a very excellent list of great talented, tremendous people.

TAPPER: Still, President Trump is hardly known for speaking to his script.

TRUMP: Go to the barber shop. Grab somebody, make them a judge.

TAPPER: Still here's a short list that might appeal to the president's more Trumpian sensibilities. The biggest judge in television is Judge Judy.

JUDGE JUDY SHEINDLIN, FORMER MANHATTAN FAMILY COURT JUDGE: You're an idiot. And a scammer.

TAPPER: And the toughest judge in reality television is Simon Cowell.

SIMON COWELL, TELEVISION JUDGE: I think you're possibly the worst singer in the world.

[09:55:01]

TAPPER: Knowing how much President Trump values loyalty, however, his former personal attorney Michael Cohen might be in need of a job.

TRUMP: Michael is a businessman. He also practices law.

TAPPER: Of course President Trump might just pull from one of his most trusted hiring pools. FOX News' weekend Justice Janine Pirro is ready to rule on the toughest of cases.

And Don Jr. recently tweeted that she would be awesome.

JEANINE PIRRO, HOST, JUSTICE WITH JUDGE JEANINE: So here I am in the woods in Chappaqua. I'm looking for Hillary. I can't find her.

Hillary! Hillary! Come out!

TAPPER: But perhaps the president will go with the most Trumpian choice of all.

TRUMP: I alone can fix it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Is the world witnessing the end of a post-cold war order?

Fareed Zakaria has that next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)