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Crime and Justice With Ashleigh Banfield
Teen And New Bride Hire Hitman To Kill Dad; Model Hires Hitman To Kill Hubby`s Ex; Killer`s Confession; One More Thing. Aired 6-8p ET
Aired July 12, 2018 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[18:00:00] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Third arrest tonight in the killing of a prominent jeweler gunned down in his Texas home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He basically told me his father was murdered, so I felt terribly awful for him, as a normal person would.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After the arrest of the victim`s son and daughter-in- law, what role do authorities think the new suspect played in the murder for hire, Kate?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just put her in the chopper, like one of those lumber jack chopper things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Former model accused of hiring a hitman to kill her husband`s ex and get rid of the body in a wood chipper, enters a guilty
plea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I treated him like all the rest of my kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking confession, newly released video shows a mother of ten telling police she and her boyfriend are responsible for
killing and burying her 5-year-old son in the backyard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the rest of your kids were not buried in a duffel bag in your backyard.
(END VIDEO)
RITA COSBY, GUEST HOST, HLN CRIME AND JUSTICE: And good evening, everybody, I`m Rita Cosby in for Ashleigh Banfield. This is "Crime and
Justice." Tonight, who broke into a Jeweler`s home and shot him dead in the middle of the night? A new arrest could help solve this mystery.
Theodore Shaughnessy and his wife were reportedly awoken by an intruder. But despite their house full of valuables, this would be no burglary,
because the intruder wasn`t there to take things. The intruder was there to take lives, and the intruder killed both Shaughnessy and the family dog.
It wasn`t long before police put the Jeweler`s own son in handcuffs, accusing him of hiring a hit man to take out both of his parents, because
Nicholas Shaughnessy allegedly stood to gain up to eight million bucks if his parents were dead.
And his brand-new teenage bride was also arrested. Also just another 19- year-old, and another young adult is now behind bars. All three of them charged with solicitation of murder. While that killer could still be on
the run.
And I want to bring in our panel, I want to bring in Tony Plohetski, he is an investigative reporter for the Austin American statesman, also CNN
senior law enforcement analyst and also a former FBI assistant Director, Tom Fuentes, and also defense attorney, David Bruno. Let me start with
you, if I could too, Tony. Tell us the story. This is such a wild story, it all starts when mom wakes up, she hears the dogs barking. Take us from
there.
TONY PLOHETSKI, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, AUSTIN AMERICAN STATESMAN: Well, she wakes up, this happened early in the morning of March 2nd, so several
months ago. She wakes up. Her husband arms himself, he goes to investigate, and she hears a number of shots coming from the kitchen and
living room area of her home. Cory Shaughnessy has told investigators that at that point she fled into a closet and called 911, but that she does
believe that her life was at risk as well.
Law enforcement showed up a short time later. They discovered her husband`s body in their home. He had been shot multiple times, was
pronounced dead at the scene, but in the interim months, law enforcement here in Travis County have been investigating. And late in May, they did
arrest and charge the Shaughnessy son, 19-year-old Nicholas Shaughnessy, with, as you mentioned, Rita, solicitation to commit capital murder.
COSBY: You know, Tony, when you hear this, the mom first hears -- she hears the sounds, the guy goes down with his gun. Then she goes down with
her gun. There are shots, by the time it sounds like it was a wild west in this kitchen.
PLOHETSKI: That is exactly right. With a number of shots being fired. And still a little unclear whether or not Ted Shaughnessy actually got off
any rounds, but it does sound like a real gunfight going on in this home. The Shaughnessy`s from what I`ve been able to learn from people I`ve talked
to, who know them, were armed. They carried firearms, they were in the Jewelry business, and they also, you know, believed that at different times
they may be in danger. So they typically were armed, which is why law enforcement believes that this crime may have been committed, was committed
in the middle of the night, to not give them an opportunity to draw their weapons on the intruders.
COSBY: Now you talk about that, Tony, but quickly authorities` light bulbs go off, because they realize that the entry into the home, first of all,
there`s one particular area that seemed to have a little bit of tampering with, but the rest of the house was fine, so it looks like it`s an inside
job, right?
[18:05:06] PLOHETSKI: That is right. There was a window screen from the home that was off at the time. Nicholas Shaughnessy actually told police
that was sometimes the case. In the minds of many people, to make them believe that this crime scene had not in fact been tampered with, but as
authorities continued investigating, they continued to get witnesses and confidential informants who continued to place Nick Shaughnessy at the helm
of this ring that led to the death of his father.
COSBY: And also, you know what, there`s some interesting behavior, I want to put up a picture. This is Jacqueline`s hands. This is the new bride --
teen bride`s hands. And the reason it`s significant, the reaction, first of all, when they find out about all these things, and they say, OK, they
first don`t seem so upset by it all, but this picture actually turns to be pretty damning, because it turned out she was very calm when detectives
were asking her questions and then suddenly they said, well, we actually want to test your hands for gun residue, and then she begins sobbing
uncontrollably, because uh-oh, maybe I have something to do with this.
Later of course, she is charged with criminal solicitation, along with her husband and also now we know another guy. Let me bring in Tom Fuentes,
because when you hear all this, what goes through your mind? Soon as I heard, first of all, that it happens to be the bedroom, he has a bedroom in
his parent`s house. He lives a couple hours away. He can conveniently wasn`t there at the time, but the only damage in the house was in this
window of the bedroom where he stays, Tom. And then yet this is a pretty wealthy house, seemed like they were pretty successful, yet nothing was
stolen. As a seasoned law enforcement guy, Tom, don`t a lot of things go off, a lot of alarm bells in your head?
TOM FUENTES, CNN`S SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST AND FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, certainly. When they start looking at this, Rita, you
know, they start to see that things just don`t quite look right, and look a little further. And I think that how the entry was made, or what kind of
damage to window screens or that type of thing, but it sounds like in this case, that the investigation had a lot to do with review of surveillance
video from the house itself. That is where, you know, they`re seeing the people that come and go, and especially that would include upstairs in the
private -- more private areas of the home, as opposed to the living room or entry foyer or kitchen.
And you know, that is part of the reason, the police are saying, that led to the arrest of the third suspect today. That they saw probably this
individual in most parts of the house and wondered what would he have to do with it, not being a member of the family, to pursue that part of the
investigation, that could it be a murder for hire, could it be this other individual was brought in by the son and the son`s wife, to case the place,
see where different rooms were, how it was laid out, so that he could go in there, in the dark, and find his way to the right locations.
COSBY: You know, the other thing, also Tom Fuentes, the dog, I want to put a picture up of the dog, Bart. The Rottweiler was also killed too.
Obviously intruders, certainly if you see a Rottweiler, in particular, but what`s the significance of that?
FUENTES: Well, I think the Rottweiler, obviously, the one significance is that it could chew up the shooter and endanger him. And then secondly, it
could be just engaged in barking and alert other neighbors or other people in the neighborhood or passersby by as to what was going on. So, I think
that probably it was the fear of the dog attacking the attacker that led to him wanting to kill the dog.
COSBY: And Tony Plohetski, what I think is so interesting, is how they sort of got a break. Because it took a while until they put it together.
They certainly knew that things were happening from the inside, someone who knew the house, had at least a sense of the terrain if you will. There was
a conversation that was kind of interesting. And I want to put this up, this is a conversation between the Jeweler`s son and his new teen bride.
And in it, they basically say, this was February 23rd, 2018. Nicholas says, they won`t budge. I`m not their only client, love. Do they want 50k
or not? We can`t afford to pay half before. We will see. I`m not sure. I`m sure the casual jobs are around 10. They`re like negotiating a fee,
and now of course we know they`re charged with criminal solicitation. Give us the sense of what broke this case finally, Tony.
PLOHETSKI: Well, the truth is, multiple things broke this case finally. And if you read these court documents, they really do frankly paint a
picture of suspects who law enforcement have described as quite sloppy. They were texting each other, Nick Shaughnessy, his wife, as well as other
people, eventually who are linked to this case.
[18:10:04] They also relied, Rita, upon video, surveillance video from outside Nick Shaughnessy`s house in college station, that is about 90 miles
from Austin, that shows people coming and going, but one of the things that is also very interesting is not only what the evidence showed, it`s what it
didn`t show. And on one particular night in question, when authorities believed that Nick Shaughnessy was traveling from College Station to
Austin, to scope out this potential crime area, that he actually turned his security video off at his house so that people could not see, law
enforcement could not see, who was going and coming from the house, to possibly travel with him to Austin. Cellular technology also played a huge
role in this case.
Authorities, at least on one night in question, were able to track Nick Shaughnessy from College Station to Austin and place him in the area around
his parent`s house. That was just a couple of nights before this murder happened.
COSBY: And also, and I want to play, this is a quote from a neighbor who said that he just didn`t really seem to faze about it all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He basically told me his father was murdered, so I felt incredibly awful for him, as a normal person would. Something I found a
little odd, he said to me the police report in Austin of, like, what happened. Everyone grieves differently. It didn`t seem to faze him. The
overall absurdity of the situation was just bizarre.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And let me bring in David Bruno, who`s on set with us here. David, you know, when you sit and hear this, he seems unfazed. His new bride
seemed unfazed until they said they were going to look at the residue on her hands. How do you read this? How do you defend it? One key is we
don`t know who the gunman, but they are charged with solicitation.
DAVID BRUNO, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Sure. Right. This is a new arrest. There is a new arrest, this third individual comes four months after.
Right, so you have to question, why did it take so long? It could be a cooperation. Maybe one of these two individuals have agreed to work with
the prosecutor`s office. Because we have three attorneys now. And if I represented one of them, I`d be talking about, you might want to take a
deal here, because you may have some valuable information about the other two.
COSBY: Speaking of valuable --
BRUNO: Even who did it?
COSBY: That is the whole thing. You are right. You can put some gray on that whole area. David, what about also the fact this is a beautiful home,
nothing`s stolen, all right, from the home, and Nick apparently told an informant that he would get $8 million in assets if his parents died, a
whole bunch from life insurance alone. Could be a motive.
BRUNO: Yes, a big one. Money and love are the two best motives for prosecutors to have. When it`s money, it`s a substantial amount, $8
million. Right? And that is probably why they wanted to hit both of them, the mother and the father. And I think they were unsuccessful, right.
COSBY: How do you defend them? How do you defend them?
BRUNO: Well, the phones. I hear about these text messages, right? In this day and age, for criminal defendants to be talking about a crime on
their phones is the worst possible thing. I would be looking at the discovery, I would be trying to file suppression motion on the phones and
any evidence and possibly talking about -- talking to the prosecutor about a plea and cooperation.
COSBY: I was about to say, turn on each other, because there are multiple defendants. And there may be a gunman at large at this time. We don`t
even know.
BRUNO: Sure. That will be a very valuable asset for a criminal defendant to provide to a prosecutor. If someone actually went in there and killed
someone, that is the murder charge, it`s more than the criminal solicitation than these three individuals are charged with.
COSBY: All right. David, thank you very much and everybody.
Straight ahead, from one murder for hire plot to another, and a defendant with a runway model good look, and also apparently a lot of good luck.
Tara Lambert`s first conviction was tossed, and now she is cut what looks like a sweetheart deal. That is coming up next.
[18:15:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And this is Rita Crosby in for Ashleigh Banfield. A lot of people don`t like their spouse`s ex. And Tara Arbagas, better known as Tara
Lambert, really didn`t like her spouse`s ex. In fact, she is somewhat famous for it, after she was accused of hiring a hitman to kill her
husband`s ex. Her own stepdaughter`s mother. And make it look like it was an accident. And when Tara met the supposed killer in the parking lot of a
local KFC, she even suggested what to do with the body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want done with her?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, just put her in a chopper, like one of those lumber jack chopper things.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t carry a lumber jack chopper.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I`m just kidding. That is how much I hate her, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: What Tara didn`t realize was that she`d just given a down payment of $125 to an undercover cop. She was arrested later that day. And after
a court case that was as much about her sexy outfit, as it was about the actual crime, and after her overturned conviction, now Tara has pleaded
guilty and she has been ordered to spend five years behind bars. The Columbus dispatch caught her apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[18:20:18] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am very sorry for the crime that I committed and I`ll always be sorry for the crime that has been caused to
the Cooke family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And joining me now is Tara Lambert`s attorney, Sam Shamansky, also exclusively with us is Kellie Cooke, Tara Lambert`s intended victim. And
on the phone, Tara`s former stepdaughter Aspen Lambert, and defense attorney, David Bruno is also still with me. Sam, I want to start with
you, because we see that now she has pleaded guilty. Five years. Explain that. Is that five years, plus sometimes served? What is that?
SAM SHAMANSKY, ATTORNEY FOR TARA COOKE: Rita that is five years, minus the almost 17 months that she is already served.
COSBY: So that is going to be a little over three years, is what you`re talking about, right?
SHAMANSKY: Correct. At this point, that would be the maximum amount of time that she would have to serve. Conversely, if the Judge sees fit to
consider her prison record and her adjustment, he can also reconsider the sentence after a period of time as well.
COSBY: Now, Sam, I know that you`re defending her, but that is a pretty light sentence when someone hears three years for, you know, asking for a
hitman, and it was an undercover cop, for 125 bucks, for a killing of somebody, and then put the body in, you know, a wood chipper. Doesn`t that
seem a little light to you, Sam? I know you`re representing her?
SHAMANSKY: No, Rita, I`m able to be objective regardless of whom I`m representing. But what I can tell you for sure, this case is more than
just the snippet that is been played on the radio and television ad nauseam. It`s about a woman with no record, it is about a case that was
pursued very vigorously by the local authorities, whether or not she was entrapped or exercised bad judgment is meaningless at this point. The
Cooke`s were afraid and (inaudible).
COSBY: How is that meaningless? Sam, she asked -- she is on tape. In fact, let me play a little bit. This is her a little bit in this whole
undercover thing. I mean, she is on tape saying it, Sam. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TARA LAMBERT, SUSPECT: I`m going to be so excited. I just can`t even tell you. So happy what you`re about to do. I know that is so bad, but, even
my girls, I think if they could pay people to do this, they probably would, they hate her so bad. So don`t feel bad about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t feel bad about it at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is a cry baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, sound good.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. I`m so excited. Very, very good. You`re the man.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really appreciate this. I owe you, like, everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it easy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, you too. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: So there she is, Sam. When you see that tape, you realize it`s pretty damning, right, Sam?
SHAMANSKY: Rita, the evidence is obviously damning. I understand that. All I`m suggesting is, the case is more than just those words caught on
tape. You understand that as an experienced journalist. It`s more than just those few words. So the parties reached a resolution that they
thought was fair given the circumstances.
COSBY: Let me ask you, on the five years, and you said minus the 17, could she also get out for early parole? What could be the minimum that she
could get?
SHAMANSKY: Well, it is possible under certain circumstances that her sentence could be reduced. That is hard to predict this early on. It
depends on her institutional adjustment, how she behaves, how the court feels about the progress she is made.
COSBY: What could she get Sam, I mean what could she get after all this? What are you talking?
SHAMANSKY: I`m talking, she is received a five-year sentence, minus time served. Only time will tell what happens in the future. I can`t predict
that. If I could, I`d be on CNN horoscopes.
COSBY: Yes. You would be, but what you`re trying to do is also dodge a little, Sam and that is what a good attorney does.
SHAMANSKY: I`m not playing dodge ball. Not at all. I`m sitting perfectly still, Rita.
COSBY: What I`m saying to you is that with good behavior, first of all, it could be three and a half years. Good behavior could be earlier, correct?
Is that right?
SHAMANSKY: It could. And the Judge retains jurisdiction to also shorten the sentence if he sees fit.
COSBY: No, and I understand the fact -- I understand that is the process, but a lot of people hearing that are hearing that is a very light sentence.
Of course you beg to differ. That is your job representing her. Let me bring in if I could, Kellie Cooke, she was, of course, the target of all of
this. And Kellie, when you hear this, that is why I wanted to get an answer from Sam. Because at the end of the day, and obviously, it is the
legal process, in fairness to Sam, that is the legal process, but she could serve three and a half years. She could end up serving a bit less for
parole and good behavior and some other things. What`s your reaction, Kellie?
[18:25:14] KELLIE COOKE, VICTIM: Um, well, I mean, it definitely beats what they tried to counter offer me, was four years, get out in three, which
would be a year and a half left, and $24,000. You know, you can`t pay everybody off just to get a less sentence. You know what, she is been
saying she is innocent for all these years, and wrongfully accused and confident the jury would see it different (inaudible). So just to hear her
say she was guilty for once, that was worth it.
COSBY: What do you think? Do you think that is an appropriate punishment given you know, I know that there was a deal and so forth, and you were
brought in, what is your reaction, though, just personally, when you hear it, Kellie, that it could be three years or even less than three years?
Just personally.
COOKE: Personally, I mean, we`d rather have more, but what do you do at this point? She would just keep appealing. And who knows what would
happen. At least now it is over, and we can move on and get on with our life and just forget about her.
COSBY: Did you worry about threats against you? I know that you felt there might have been even some warning signs to that she was planning to
get rid of you. There were threats and a whole bunch of things Kellie along the way here. Right?
COOKE: There was. It went on for a good year, year and a half. You know, I had an attorney for that whole time. Her husband at the time which was
my girl`s father, we were going back to court for visitation modification to get where she could not be around me or my kids alone, because of the
threats and stuff that she would do under, you know, what we believe was her under alias names. And you know, the phone calls she had with me at
the time, we knew it was her. Couldn`t prove it. And she just wanted all the control. I knew this was going to happen. I`ve told him for a year
and a half, yet the courts did not help me either. And it came down on this, I was not surprised at all.
COSBY: It`s got to be tough to hear all this. Thank goodness you`re OK, especially when you hear that chilling tape. It`s unbelievable, Kellie, to
hear somebody talking about you and talking about what they had planned to do and paying 125 bucks. Very quick. Aspen, I want to go to you, Aspen
Lambert, because I know that you are so eloquent in court talking about this. What`s your reaction when you hear this, that now there`s a plea
deal? And do you think maybe she got a little bit of a slack? Do you think her looks played anything in this case? She said her looks worked
against her, but other people think it helped.
ASPEN LAMBERT, FORMER STEP DAUGHTER OF TARA COOKE: I don`t think her looks helped her. I think that her looks shouldn`t have gotten her more time,
but I mean like my mom said, it is over with now and we can move on. But, I mean, I guess she got what she wanted.
COSBY: Well, and now she may serve three and a half years or possibly less, depending on the system, but at least as you said, at least you can
both move on. Thank you very much, thanks to all of you.
An outrage tonight over the crocodile tears from a confessed killer mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t do this intentionally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, if that is the case, then the skeleton will show that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t. I didn`t hit my son. I didn`t do nothing to my son. All I did was try to make him feel better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Try to make him feel better? Well, that is hard to believe when she helped bury her special needs 5-year-old son in the backyard and didn`t
tell anyone about his death for months. Now she is going to pay the price. That story`s next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:30:00]
RITA COSBY, HOST, HLN: And this is Rita Cosby here, in for Ashleigh Banfield. Tonight, we are finally hearing from the Ohio mother of 10 who is
behind bars for killing her special needs son. It has been nearly half a year since 5-year-old Jordan was found buried in her backyard. Though when
police initially came knocking, Larissa Rodriguez had a whole different story for the officers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Where does he live?
LARISSA RODRIGUEZ, ARRESTED ON SUSPICION OF MURDER: He`s staying -- he doesn`t live there, but he`s just visiting for the holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): In Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Is he usually upstairs?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Jordan has -- he has family members in Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): All right. Do you know any numbers or how to get in touch with anybody who actually lives in Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean, right now, his phone just got disconnected. I`m waiting for him to call me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And now, Larissa is serving 25 years for manslaughter.
[18:34:58] And we`re hearing what she told police when she finally confessed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): You want to suggest to me that the only time you failed your son was September 21st. That`s what you want to
suggest to me. Am I understanding you correctly? I`m not trying to offend you.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, you are. You`re sitting there, trying to make me seem like I`m the bad one, like I did something. Yes, I did something and I did it
and it was a mistake. I buried -- had my son buried. That was my biggest mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): There`s no reason that a 5-year-old boy should be buried in the backyard in a suitcase. Whose idea was that?
RODRIGUEZ: It was his idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): And why would you go for such a thing?
RODRIGUEZ: Because I didn`t want my son. Yes, I did wrong, OK? And I realize that. But at the time, I wasn`t ready to let Jordan go. I wanted
him to be close to me and that`s why I did what I did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (voice over): So it was Christopher`s idea to bury your son in the backyard?
RODRIGUEZ: It was my idea and he just did it. Just because I didn`t want Jordan to be far away from me. I just wanted him to be close. I was not
ready to let Jordan go because I feel when Jordan was a baby, I wanted to have a connection with Jordan, I wanted to have a bond with Jordan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: So she buried him in the backyard. I want to bring in my panel when you see that unbelievable confession tape. Vic Gideon is an anchor for New
Radio WTAM. And also Anna Faraglia. She is an assistant prosecuting attorney and also prosecuted Larissa Rodriguez, the one who just saw there
on the tape. And also defense attorney, David Bruno, is still with me.
I want to play a little bit first, this is where she admits to burying him because she wants to be close to him. Here is a little more of this just
unbelievable confession.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RODRIGUEZ: We laid him up on the bed, on his bed. He -- Chris got him dressed. You know, changed his pull-up, got his outfit on, stuff like
that. We wait until nighttime and like he was burying the hole. He was digging it for, you know, to put him under there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris was?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where was he digging at?
RODRIGUEZ: It was right there by the steps, right by the back porch steps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your backyard?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah. And then he finally, you know, we -- he put him in a black bag and put him inside the hole.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: It is so chilling. And she is talking about her 5-year-old son Jordan, who was autistic. It is just so heartbreaking to hear. Vic Gideon,
I want to bring you in because to date, she has never admitted to killing the son. She says what, the son was sick. And then she also talks about
Christopher, who is her boyfriend, who at one point like stuffed a sock in the kid`s mouth and was abusing her and abusing the little boy?
VIC GIDEON, ANCHOR, NEWS RADIO WTAM: Right. This story is, you know, again, we heard the end which was awful but, you know, a young boy`s body
is kind of treated like almost a piece of garbage. But, you know, this poor boy was five years old. He was born, I believe, 26 weeks premature and he
had one kidney. He had a lot of health issues.
Again, I think he had some developmental challenges as well. And, you know, to know that there was possibly some abuse in there as well, his five years
apparently were extremely sad. And again, I think the other thing is, and certainly there are stories like this, but then to kind of discard him the
way they did in the backyard, in a piece of luggage, buried three feet below the ground, it`s heartbreaking.
The whole thing, from the very start is heartbreaking, and just a sad, tragic end to the entire story, but you`re correct. We never really heard
her in court. I know Anna Faraglia talked about this as well. But, you know, basically they did a plea deal and then she accepted the penalty. But
we never actually heard her --
COSBY: What about the boyfriend, did he ever admit?
GIDEON: No, I don`t think we heard anybody admit anything from the very start. The story kind of broke in December. The child died, I believe,
September 22nd, and the body was discovered in December. So really for these eight months, until the sentencing, we had not heard anyone admit to
anything.
COSBY: It`s amazing. I want to play a little bit. You talk about, Vic, that she said she knew where the child was buried.
[18:39:59] In fact, when she was asked by interrogators, I want to play a little bit more of her chilling confession because she describes where to
find little 5-year-old Jordan.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Ma`am, I would really love to get in touch with Jordan.
RODRIGUEZ: OK. Is there any way I can give you, when I find the number? To contact you? I got two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Any of the kids disabled?
RODRIGUEZ: He`s not really disabled, but that`s the one that`s with his dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): How old is he?
RODRIGUEZ: He just turned five.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): OK. Where does he live?
RODRIGUEZ: He`s staying -- he doesn`t live there, but he`s just visiting for the holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): In Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Is he usually upstairs?
RODRIGUEZ: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Jordan has -- he has family members in Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): All right. Do you know any numbers or how to get in touch with anybody who actually lives in Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean, right now, his phone just got disconnected. I`m waiting for him to call me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And you are hearing a little bit more from the tape. What she did say by the way in the burying part was hey, here is where Jordan is buried.
We put him a blanket. You heard about the whole suitcase thing. It is so heartbreaking. The one thing we don`t hear, and I want to bring in the
prosecutor, Anna Faraglia, through all of this, by the way bravo on this case.
They got some pretty serious sentences, 22 and 28 years, pretty strong sentences. But yet they never admitted to it. But what we do know is the
physical evidence, poor little Jordan, whose body is there, buried in that suitcase in the backyard, Anna. As you know, his body spoke.
I mean, broken bones, broken wrists. Tell us about the injuries to him. Is there any doubt in your mind that this was not just a sick child, that this
was a child who had been severely beaten?
ANNA FARAGLIA, ASSISTANT PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Rita, what we know is that he had been beaten in the past because he had healing fractures of ribs. It
was obviously a child that had been abused for a period of time. He had a fractured clavicle that was healing. So it was a period of time that this
child had been abused while in the care and custody of his mother and his mother`s boyfriend. And we got 25 --
COSBY: Do you think we`ll ever find out how it happened?
FARAGLIA: Rita, I don`t think we`ll ever find out because really, a crime is usually known to the person who commits it. Unfortunately in the
autopsy, because the child had lied in the ground for such a long period of time, the decomposition really played a factor in the medical examiner`s
examination of the body.
COSBY: Anna, it is so heartbreaking.
FARAGLIA: It is very heartbreaking. She got 25 years and he got 28 years. So, it was a good penalty, though I know members of our community wanted
more, but there wasn`t more to give.
COSBY: Well, we`re going to have much more on this story right after the break. And talk about that, and talk about how you pieced all of this
together as well.
[18:45:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY MARGARET RUSSO, JUDGE, CUYAHOGA COUNTY COMMON PLEAS COURT: I know as a judge I`m not supposed to show emotion. In 22 years, it never happened.
This is one of the worst things I`ve ever seen in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: It is so heartbreaking to hear. This is Rita Cosby, in for Ashleigh Banfield. It is a story so horrifying, even the judge couldn`t help but get
emotional as you just saw at the sentencing. We are still talking about the Ohio woman who along with her boyfriend was convicted of killing her own 5-
year-old special needs son and burying him in the yard.
And now we`re hearing what Larissa Rodriguez told police, taking some of the blame for her child`s death, but saying that she never hurt him. So why
does little Jordan have multiple fractured bones that were healing at the time of his death?
We are back with our panel now. Vic, also Anna and also defense attorney David Bruno. I want to first play, Anna, before I go to you, I want to play
when she was asked about these old injuries. Because her claim was that, oh, he was just sick. He`s an autistic child. There are a lot of problems
with him. He was getting sick. And he just died. But she was confronted about some of those broken bones.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): We did talk with the coroner.
RODRIGUEZ: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): And they finished their initial examination and there are some problems.
RODRIGUEZ: Like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): The problems being Jordan had an old, left wrist fracture. His left wrist was broken. At some point, it was healed. It
healed on its own. How? That`s something you need to tell us. Jordan also has three fractured left ribs that healed on their own and a fractured
right rib that healed on its own.
And these are all injuries that were healing on their own, without medical help, which means he was in a lot of pain for a very long time. And you`re
not being honest about what was happening to this kid.
[18:49:58] RODRIGUEZ: See what happened, I mean, I personally didn`t, but I was scared myself, OK?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And let me bring in Anna Faraglia. When you see that, it`s so upsetting, Anna. How much did these injuries that were clearly in Jordan`s
body that they found again while afterwards, because he was buried in the backyard, thanks to his mom and the boyfriend. How much they helped
solidify the case? Because you got a pretty strong sentence against them, 22 to 28 years, although some people I am sure would like much more.
FARAGLIA: Well, we got 25 for the mom, Rita. And the injuries in and of themselves did help because they did indicate especially the healing rib
fractures, indicated that this child was abused because they were the floating ribs which had been fractured and were healing. And those are
very, very difficult to break because they`re only hinged on one side of our body.
And he was a little tyke. He also appeared to be malnourished, but we could never really get a definitive answer because of the fact that his body was
so badly decomposed.
COSBY: It`s so heartbreaking.
FARAGLIA: I mean, a fractured clavicle just doesn`t happen. You know what I mean, on a 5-year-old? Without a just explanation. And she wasn`t ever
able to give any explanation. I mean, she professed her love for this child but yet took him out of school, never re-enrolled him in school, alienated
him from family members. They never saw him when they came to the house.
You know, he had to have been ostracized and just kept in a room by himself. Nobody really ever questioned it, which is really pathetic.
COSBY: It is so heartbreaking to hear, Anna. And good for you, for prosecuting this case. I want to bring in David Bruno. When you hear this,
David, it is so heartbreaking and my heart just breaks for little Jordan, who`s autistic. I`m the godmother of two autistic kids. And, you know,
autistic kids often in this case it sounds like they cannot speak, they`re having a hard time communicating, he couldn`t say this is what`s happening
to me.
DAVID BRUNO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah.
COSBY: And yet, still to this day, Larissa Rodriguez basically says, the only thing I did was didn`t take him to the hospital. I mean, come on,
that, first of all, is bad enough. But then clearly what she seems to be -- she`s definitely tied to the burying, but this is damning, don`t you think?
BRUNO: Yeah. Well, Anna, you did a great job on this one, because those are two high numbers, the 25 and the 28, for not being able to prove cause
and manner.
COSBY: You got an autistic boy who has got broken bones. You just heard about the clavicle from Anna.
BRUNO: Yeah.
COSBY: It wasn`t like he just fell.
BRUNO: I agree. This is a victim, and I feel bad. But, however, the prosecutor still has to do their job. There`s a burden of proof that has to
be met here, proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
COSBY: She didn`t even admit to it, David.
BRUNO: When you don`t have cause and manner, you can`t prove the murder, OK? It`s like Casey Anthony. Casey Anthony was acquitted down in Florida
because they couldn`t prove cause and manner. And I just have to say, again, the prosecutor did a tremendous job to get those very high numbers,
25 and 28.
COSBY: But this mother doesn`t even seem remorseful. And I think that`s the most troubling thing when you hear it. And the other issue is too,
there were so many people from social services that were coming to the house and she said I was worried about social services taking this child
away because she had a history of problems before this.
This was a mother who -- she has 10 kids, just had another one recently. I mean, what is she doing being a mother, she can`t even take care of this
poor little boy?
BRUNO: I question whether or not maybe child services did enough
COSBY: Are you blaming it on child services, not her?
BRUNO: No, let`s say, if there`s been a history of abuse in this household, they could have done more, I would imagine, OK?
COSBY: You`re right.
BRUNO: Not putting it on them, it`s not their fault. Obviously, everyone makes their own decisions. However, when a prosecutor charges something,
they better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I don`t think a murder could have been proven here.
COSBY: Well, a lot of people dropped the ball, as you point out. David, thank you. And everybody, we will be right back right after the break.
[18:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And one more thing for you tonight. We see plenty of dramatic dash cam videos of cops chasing down perths (ph) or pulling over bad guys. But
sometimes officers have things go wrong on the job, just like you and me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): (INAUDIBLE).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
COSBY: Nice to know they are human too. Well, the Carrollton, Texas Police Department compiled this dash and body cam blooper reel and have thrown out
the challenge now to other departments, like all the lip sync battle videos that have flooded your Facebook feed.
[19:00:07] I can`t wait to see more.
The next hour of CRIME & JUSTICE starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Horror at home, a man allegedly admits to hitting his sleeping wife with a hammer and strangling her to death before she planned
to divorce him.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he snapped, because she just completely was letting him know, I don`t want nothing to do with you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gruesome crime reportedly happened while their 7- year-old son was in the same room.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just put her in a chopper, like one of those lumber jack chopper things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A former model accused of hiring a her husband`s ex- and get rid of the body in a woodchipper enters a guilty plea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I treated him like all the rest of my kids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A shocking confession, newly released video shows a mother of ten telling police she and her boyfriend are responsible for
killing and burying her 5-year-old son in the backyard.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All the rest of your kids were not buried in a duffel bag in your backyard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: And good evening, everyone. I`m Rita Cosby here in for Ashleigh Banfield.
And this is the second hour of CRIME & JUSTICE.
Tonight in Florida, a young woman is dead. The mother of a 7-year-old boy, who was reportedly in the room when his dad beat her to death. Police say
that 42-year-old Mark Burkowitz became enraged when he found text messages on his wife`s phone from another man after learning that she wanted to
divorce him. So the former construction worker grabbed a hammer from his toolbox and attacked his wife as she lay sleeping.
Police say their little 7-year-old son woke up and actually witnessed this brutal attack, later telling officers about the boo boo on his mother`s
head. But his dad reportedly told him to turn over before dragging her out of the room, strangling her to quote "put her out of her misery," and going
to tell his own mom what he had done.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA WATTERSON, MOTHER OF SUSPECT: I went in the room, grabbed my grandson, and I put him in the bathroom, and I told him to stay there, I`m
calling 911. And Mark says, oh, no, I`m going to prison. I`m going to call 911. I think he snapped because she just completely was letting him
know, I don`t want nothing to do with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Unbelievable story.
Well, I want to bring in my panel on this. David Ovalle, he is reporter for the "Miami Herald," also certified child welfare and law specialist
Ashley Wilcott and defense attorney David Bruno.
Let me start with you, David, because the mother-in-law calls up 911. It`s the woman who has been killed now. But she actually is the one who places
the call to 911?
DAVID OVALLE, REPORTER, MIAMI HERALD: Yes. The mother of the defendant calls 911. And what`s interesting is, during the phone call, he actually
takes the phone away from her and connects what she`s saying, and says, no, I didn`t use a knife, I used a hammer, I killed her. So right off the bat,
they have some incriminating evidence right there. So a lot of this played out on 911 calls, ask then of course once the police get there, he gives a
full confession.
COSBY: But you know what is so wild, he grabs the phone, David Ovalle, from the mother, right, and says, I killed her. He also said some very
chilling things as to why he used a hammer and not a knife. Explain that.
OVALLE: Right. So Burkowitz tells the homicide detectives that he does not want her screaming. He does not like knives. He knew that if he
stabbed her, she would start screaming. So since he works construction, he went and got the hammer out of his toolbox, because he knew it was
incapacitate her right away, and he would be able to carry out this crime without the same level of noise as if he had used a knife.
COSBY: But you know what? He didn`t incapacitate her, David Ovalle, and that`s what`s so chilling. And then when he drags her, the son`s awake, he
drags her into the other room to quote "finish it off." Did he actually say to put her out of her mercy, basically?
OVALLE: Yes, he told the police that he dragged her out because she was still making noises. And, you know, the really sad part about it is that
the young boy who was in the room tells the police that he hears his mother snoring and that was weird because she doesn`t snore. But really what we
can gather from that, is that she wasn`t snoring, she was gasping, she was moaning, she was making some sort of noises in the last seconds of her
life. So really, really gruesome details in this murder.
[19:05:15] COSBY: Oh, it is so gruesome, David Ovalle. You know, the other thing too is that the little boy, from what I understand, of course,
they are staying in the same house as his mom. The little boy is in the little bed, right? Or she`s in the little bed, he is in the big bed. They
sort of switched that night. But he is staying there, and he is nearby and wakes up, and the dad actually tells the son, turn over, as he is killing,
you know, his mom?
OVALLE: Yes. And I can`t even imagine what kind of trauma this boy is going to have to deal with for the rest of his life. And, yes, they had
been living there. According to the mother, it had been a toxic environment for some time. And so this was a culmination of many months of
turmoil.
And the sad part is, you know, whether Anastacia left him or not, she was starting a whole new chapter in her life. She had just graduated from
medical school nearby and she was on the path to becoming a doctor, which, you know, makes it that much sadder, because she would have had a really
good and rewarding life with her and her son.
COSBY: It`s so heartbreaking to hear.
I want to bring the attorneys. I have got Ashley Wilcott with me. I also have David Bruno.
David, you hear this, you are defending the guy. He has already confessed to the crime, but the details are so despicable. And as we were just
hearing from David Ovalle, about the boy being told turn over while I`m killing your mother, then the mother gets dragged out. I can`t imagine.
And this is a potentially death penalty case, it`s a capital case there. How do you defend this guy? He has already admitted to it?
DAVID BRUNO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure. Different case than our last story. There`s a cause and manner. We have a confession. It`s a provable case
for the state. However, there is the defense.
COSBY: What`s the defense?
BRUNO: Passion provocation.
COSBY: Wait a minute.
BRUNO: Here it is. OK, first of all, they are going through a divorce and right before the murder, he sees some text messages. Now under passion
provocation, there could be an adequate provocation that puts somebody into the heat of passion. OK? So, while I`m not saying that this is going to
be a not guilty, that`s not what passion provocation is. What it does is, it mitigates. It brings it down from a murder or purposeful, certainly a
capital case, down to a manslaughter. It`s a possible defense that I see for doing this.
COSBY: But he knew what he was doing. He even said, I purposely used a hammer, he is a construction guy. He thought it through. He looked at the
messages and then he purposely got a hammer because it would be quieter. He didn`t like a knife. Then he decided to finish it off. She`s sitting
there gasping for her last breath, David.
BRUNO: Understood.
COSBY: You are telling me that he just snapped. He didn`t just snap. He planned this.
BRUNO: But the passion provocation doesn`t mean he wasn`t acting intentionally. It`s just a mitigation of the actual intentional action.
So all that could be true, he could still be acting under the passion provocation defense.
COSBY: Ashley, as you heard this, the 7-year-old, you put this before a jury, my goodness. This jury is going to say, let`s bring up the little 7-
year-old son to describe the boo boo on his mother`s head, which was obviously a lot more than a boo boo. This is so damning against him and he
admits to it.
ASHLEY WILCOTT, CERTIFIED CHILD WELFARE LAW SPECIALIST: Right. Premeditated murder. So the mother was asleep. So even if he`s enraged by
texts, she is asleep. He gets a hammer. He leaves the child in there. He does this in front of the child. He tells the child to turn over. He
needs to face crimes as to that victim as well because not only has he lost his mother, he is now going to be traumatized by this forever. He will
never forget that once he realized what happened, he saw his mother murdered by his father.
COSBY: So you believe there should be something related to the child --
WILLCOTT: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
WILLCOTT: Child endangerment, abuse of the child, emotional abuse, mental abuse, lots of different potential charges.
BRUNO: Definitely in play, it absolutely is, alright. So as a defense attorney, you got to see what the evidence is, like every other case.
What`s the -- what are the text messages? They could be salacious, right? If they are, it makes a better passion provocation defense. It all depends
on the text messages.
COSBY: You are trying to say - wait a minute. If the messages are salacious, that he had a reason to get more enraged or something like that?
Please don`t go there, David Bruno. Please don`t.
BRUNO: The content is important as to how it would affect the reader, you know. If it`s just hi or goodnight, it`s go going to be very different
from very sexual, descriptive text messages.
COSBY: Does that matter, Ashley? Come on. Do you think --?
WILLCOTT: Not for me. Not enough provocation for someone to kill their wife while they are sleeping. Absolutely not.
COSBY: Yes. Is there any excuse? Can you say, OK, well maybe he was more heated because the message was more sexual, Ashley?
WILLCOTT: And I think the other factor on this is that it is a toxic environment, according to the grandmother with whom they lived, right. And
so, it is toxic environment. And when you have that toxic environment, you need to take steps to get out of that, instead of saying, yes, by the way,
I didn`t like this text, so I chose to kill her. It`s crazy.
[19:10:13] COSBY: Right. Again, no excuse.
Let me go real quick to David Ovalle, because David, Ashley hit on the fact about this sort of toxic environment. The mom, this is his mom who called
911, described it as sort of, what, a war zone, between the two? That there was constant fighting. So this poor child, this 7-year-old went
through a lot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERSON: I went in the room, grabbed my grandson, and I put him in the bathroom, and I told him to stay there. I`m calling 911. And Mark says,
oh no, I`m going to prison. I`m going to call 911. I think he snapped because she just completely was letting him know, I don`t want nothing to
do with you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: David Ovalle, there was a lot of abuse in that house, right?
OVALLE: Yes. And another interesting wrinkle that will be curious to see how it plays out, throughout the course of the pretrial proceedings, is
that his mother told the media that her son had actually been diagnosed recently with bipolar disorder. So there could be a mental health
component to this case. You know, who knows if that will ever fly. He just clearly premeditation here, this clearly, you know, cold, calculated
decision-making on his part. But it will be interesting to see in the mitigation, and if it comes down to a sentencing, what kind of effect that
might have on a jury that might be deciding on the death penalty.
COSBY: David Bruno, could that have an effect? I see you are shaking your head.
BRUNO: Very important fact that I did not know. That could be a psychological defense. That brings in the expert, the forensic
psychiatrist or psychologist, to do an evaluation of the defendant, look at any prior history. Certainly,` if there`s bipolar, there`s the possibility
of a mentality defect that could rise to the level of a defense.
COSBY: So we should feel story for him, Ashley?
WILLCOTT: No, not at all. And let`s take it one step further and say let`s look to the future in preventing this from happening. If people knew
that he was bipolar and aware that he was bipolar, he should have been treated. People should have step in to say, how can we get him treatment
so that this wouldn`t happen. But it`s no excuse. It doesn`t mean that it makes it OK for him to kill here in the middle of the night when she is
asleep and the 7-year-old is there and has to be told, turn over so you don`t see what I did to your mother.
COSBY: It`s so heartbreaking to hear about with that 7-year-old as you pointed out. That would be so heartbreaking.
And everybody, straight ahead, a murder for hire plot with a defendant with runway model good looks and apparently some good luck. Tara Lambert`s
first conviction was tossed and now she is out with what looks like a very sweetheart deal that she has cut. Those details are coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[19:17:43] COSBY: And this is Rita Cosby in for Ashleigh Banfield.
A lot of people don`t like their spouse`s ex. And Tara Arbogast, better known as Tara Lambert, really didn`t like her spouse`s ex. In fact, she is
somewhat famous for it, after she was accused of hiring a hit man to kill her husband`s ex, her own stepdaughter`s mother, and make it look like an
accident. And when Tara met the supposed killer in the parking lot of a local KFC, she even suggested what to do with the body.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you want done with her?
TARA LAMBERT, SUSPECT: Oh, my God, just put her in a chopper, like one of those lumber jack chopper things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t carry a lumber jack chopper.
LAMBERT: No, I`m just kidding. Like that`s how much I hate her, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: What Tara didn`t realize was that she had just given a down payment of $125 to an undercover cop. She was arrested later that day.
And after a court case that was as much about her sexy outfits as it was about the actual crime, and after her overturned conviction, now Tara has
pleaded guilty and she has been ordered to spend five years behind bars. The Columbus dispatch caught her apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAMBERT: Very sorry for the crime that`s been committed and I`ll always be sorry for the pain that has been caused to the cook family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And joining me now is Tara Lambert`s attorney, Sam Shamansky, also exclusively with us is Kellie Cooke, Tara Lambert`s intended victim. And
on the phone, Tara`s former stepdaughter Aspen Lambert, and defense attorney David Bruno is also still with me.
Sam, I want to start with you, because we see that now she has pleaded guilty. Five years. Explain that. Is that five years, plus some time
served? What is that?
SAMA SHAMANSKY, ATTORNEY FOR TARA LAMBERT: Rita, that`s five years, minus the almost 17 months that she`s already served.
COSBY: So that`s going to be a little over three years, is what you are talking about, right?
[19:20:03] SHAMANSKY: Correct. At this point, that would be the maximum the amount of time that she would have to serve. Conversely, if the judge
sees fit to consider her prison record and her adjustment, he can also reconsider the sentence after a period of time as well.
COSBY: Now, Sam, I know that you are defending her, but that`s a pretty light sentence when someone hears three years for, you know, asking for a
hit man, and it was an undercover cop, for 125 bucks, for a killing of somebody, and then put the body in, you know, a wood chipper. Doesn`t that
seem a little light to you, Sam? I know you`re representing her.
SHAMANSKY: No, Rita, I`m able to be objective regardless of whom I`m representing. But what I can tell you for sure is this case is more than
just the snippet that`s been played on the radio and the television ad nauseam. It`s about a woman with no record. It is about a case that was
pursued very vigorously by the local authorities, whether or not she was entrapped or exercised bad judgment is meaningless at this point. The
cooks were afraid and rightly so --
COSBY: How is that meaningless? How is that meaningless, Sam? She asked - she is on tape. In fact, let me play a little bit. This is her a little
bit in this whole undercover thing. She`s on tape saying it, Sam. Here it is.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAMBERT: I`m going to be so excited. I just can`t even tell you. So happy what you are about to do. I know that`s so bad, but, even my girls,
I think if they could pay people to do this, they probably would, they hate her so bad. So don`t feel bad about that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t feel bad about it at all.
LAMBERT: She`s a loser. Cry baby.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, sound good.
SHAMANSKY: OK. I`m so excited. Very, very good. You are the man.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, girl.
LAMBERT: I really appreciate this. I owe you, like, everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it easy.
LAMBERT: Yes. You too. Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSBY: So there she is, Sam. When you see that tape, you realize it`s pretty damning, right, Sam?
SHAMANSKY: Rita, the evidence is obviously damning. I understand that. All I`m suggesting is, the case is more than just those words caught on
tape. You understand that as an experienced journalist. It`s more than just those few words. So the parties reached a resolution that they
thought was fair given the circumstances.
COSBY: Let me ask you, on the five years, and you said minus the 17, could she also get out for early parole? What could be the minimum that she
could get?
SHAMANSKY: Well, it is possible under certain circumstances that her sentence could be reduced. That`s hard to predict this early on. It
depends on her institutional adjustment, how she behaves, how the court feels about the progress she has made.
COSBY: What could she get, Sam? I mean, what could she get after all this? What are you talking?
SHAMANSKY: I`m talking she has received a five-year sentence, minus time served. Only time will tell what happens in the future. I can`t predict
that. If I could, I would be on CNN horoscopes.
COSBY: Yes. You would be. But what you`re trying to do is also dodge a little, Sam. And that`s what a good attorney does.
SHAMANSKY: I`m not playing dodge ball. Not at all. I`m sitting perfectly still, Rita.
COSBY: Well, you are not telling me the answer. Because what I`m saying to you is that with good behavior, first of all, it could be three and a
half years. Good behavior could be earlier, correct? Is that right.
SHAMANSKY: It could. And the judge retains jurisdiction to also shorten the sentence if he sees fit.
COSBY: No, and I understand that`s the process. But a lot of people hearing that are hearing that`s a very light sentence. Of course you beg
to differ. That`s your job representing her.
Let me bring in if I could, Kellie Cooke. She was, of course, the target of all of this.
And Kellie, when you hear this, that`s why I wanted to get an answer from Sam. Because at the end of the day, and obviously, it is the legal
process, in fairness to Sam, that`s the legal process, but she could serve three and a half years. She could end up serving a bit less for parole and
good behavior and some other things. What`s your reaction, Kellie?
KELLIE COOKE, TARGET OF MURDER-FOR-HIRE PLOT: Well, I mean, it definitely beats what they tried to counter offer me, four years, get out in three,
which would be a year and a half left, and $20,000. You can`t pay everybody off just to get a less sentence. You know what? She has been
saying she is innocent for all these years. And last time she was on, said she was wrongfully accused and confident the jury would see it different if
it went there. So just to hear her say she was guilty for once was, you know, that was worth it.
COSBY: What do you think? Do you think that`s an appropriate punishment given -- I know that there was a deal and so forth, and you were brought
in. What is your reaction, though, just personally, when you hear, Kellie, that it could be three years or even less than three years? Just
personally.
COOKE: Personally, yes. I mean, we would rather have more. But what do you do at this point? She would just keep appealing. And who knows what
would happen. So at least now it`s over and we can move on and get on with our life and just forget about her, so.
[19:25:06] COSBY: Did you worry about threats against you? I know you felt there might have been some warning signs that, you know, she was
planning to get rid of you. There were threats and things, Kellie, along the way here. Right?
COOKE: There was. It went on for a good year, year and a half. You know, I had an attorney for that whole time. Her husband at the time which was
my girl`s father, we were going back to court for visitation modification to get where she could not be around me or my kids alone because of the
threats and stuff that she would do under, you know, what we believe was her under alias names and, you know, the phone calls. She had Jenny
Cheetoh call me at the time. We knew it was her, couldn`t prove it. And she just wanted all the control. I knew this was going to happen. I have
told him for a year and a half, and yet the courts would not help me either. And it this came down on this. And I was not surprised at all.
COSBY: Yes. It is got be tough to hear all this. Thank goodness you are OK, especially when you hear that chilling tape. It`s unbelievable,
Kellie, you know, to hear somebody talking about you and talking about what they had planned to do and paying 125 bucks.
Very quick. Aspen, I want to go to you, Aspen Lambert because I know that you are so eloquent in court talking about this. What`s your reaction when
you hear that know there`s a plea deal? And do you think she got a little bit of a slack? Do you think her looks played anything in this case? She
said her looks worked against her, but other people think it helped.
ASPEN LAMBERT, FORMER STEPDAUGHTER OF TARA LAMBERT (on the phone): I don`t really think her looks helped her. I think her looks shouldn`t have gotten
her more time. But I mean, like my mom said, it is over with now and we can move on. But, I mean, I guess she got what she wanted.
COSBY: Well, and now she may serve three and a half years or possibly less, depending on the system, but at least as you said, at least you can
both move on.
Thank you very much. Thanks to all of you.
And outrage tonight over the crocodile tears from a confessed killer mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t do this intentionally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, if that`s the case, then the skeleton will show that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I didn`t. I didn`t hit my son. I didn`t do nothing to my son. All I did was try to make him feel better.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Try to make him feel better? Well, that`s hard to believe when she helped bury her special needs 5-year-old son in the backyard and didn`t
tell anyone about his death for months. Now she is going to pay the price. That story`s next.
[19:30:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
RITA COSBY, HLN HOST: And this is Rita Cosby here in for Ashleigh Banfield. Tonight, we are finally hearing from the Ohio mother of 10 who
is behind bars for killing her special needs son. It has been nearly half a year since 5-year-old Jordan was found buried in her backyard. Though
when police initially came knocking, Larissa Rodriguez had a whole different story for the officers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where does he lived?
LARISSA RODRIGUEZ, DEFENDANT: He`s staying -- he doesn`t live there, but he`s just visiting for the holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he usually upstairs?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jordan has -- he has family members in Texas.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Do you know any numbers or any -- how to get in touch with anybody who actually lives in Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean, right now, his phone just got disconnected. I`m waiting for him to call me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And now Larissa is serving 25 years for manslaughter. And we`re hearing what she told police when she finally confessed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want to suggest to me that the only time you failed your son was September 21st. You -- that`s what you want to suggest
to me. Am I understanding you correctly? I`m not trying to offend you.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, you are. You`re sitting there trying to make me seem like I`m the bad one, like I did something. Yes, I did something, and I did it.
And it was mistake. I buried -- had my son buried. That was my biggest mistake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s no reason that a 5-year-old boy should be buried in the backyard in a suitcase. Whose idea was that?
RODRIGUEZ: It was his idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And why would you go for such a thing?
RODRIGUEZ: Because I didn`t want my son -- yes, I did wrong, OK? And I realize that. But at the time, I wasn`t ready to let Jordan go. I wanted
him to be close to me, and that`s why I did what I did.
[19:35:01] UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, it was Christopher`s idea to bury your son in the backyard?
RODRIGUEZ: It was my idea. And he just did it. Just because I didn`t want Jordan to be far away from me. I just wanted him to be close. I was
not ready to let Jordan go. Because I feel, when Jordan was a baby, I wanted to have a connection with Jordan. I wanted to have a bond with
Jordan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: So, she buries him in the backyard. Well, I want to bring in my panel. When you see that unbelievable confession tape -- Vic Gideon is an
anchor for Newsradio WTAM, and also, Anna Faraglia, she is an assistant prosecuting attorney and also prosecuted Larissa Rodriguez, the woman you
just saw there on the tape. And also, Defense Attorney David Bruno is still with me. I want to play a little bit first, this is where she admits
to burying him because she wants to be close to him. Here`s a little more of this just unbelievable confession.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RODRIGUEZ: We laid him up on the bed, on his bed. He -- Chris got him dressed. You know, changed his pull-up, got his outfit on, you know, and
stuff like that. We wait till night time, and like he was buried in a hole. He was digging it for, you know, to put him under there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Chris was?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And where was he digging at?
RODRIGUEZ: It was right there by the steps. Right by the back porch steps.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your backyard?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes. And then, he finally -- you know, we -- he put him in a black bag and put him inside the hole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: It is so chilling. And she is talking about her 5-year-old son Jordan, who was autistic. It is just so heartbreaking to hear. Vic
Gideon, I want to bring you in because to date, she has never admitted to killing the son. She says, what? The son was sick, and then she also
talks about Christopher, who`s her boyfriend, who at a one point like stuffed a sock in the kid`s mouth and was abusing her and abusing the
little boy.
VIC GIDEON, ANCHOR, NEWSRADIO WTAM: Right. I mean, this story is, you know, again, we heard the end which was awful that, you know, a young boy`s
body is kind of treated like almost a piece of garbage. But, you know, this poor boy is like he was five years old. He was born, I believe, 26
weeks premature, and he had one kidney. He had a lot of health issues. Again, I think he had some developmental challenges as well. And, you
know, to know that there was possibly some abuse in there as well, his five years apparently were extremely sad. And again, I think the other thing
is, and certainly there are stories like this, but then to kind of discard him the way they did in the backyard, in a -- in a -- in a piece of
luggage, buried three feet below the ground, I mean, it`s just heartbreaking. The whole thing, from the very start is heartbreaking, and
it`s just a sad, tragic end to the entire story. But you`re correct, she would never really heard her in court. I know Anna Faraglia will talk
about this as well, but, you know, basically, they did a -- they did a plea deal and then she accepted the penalty but we never actually heard her --
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: What about the boyfriend, did he ever admit?
GIDEON: No, I don`t think we heard anybody admit anything from the very start. I mean, the story kind of broke in December. The child died, I
believe, September 22nd, and then the body was discovered in December. So really, for these eight months until the sentencing, we had not heard
anyone admit to anything.
COSBY: It`s amazing. I want to play a little bit. You talk about, Vic, that she said she knew where the child was buried. In fact, when she was
asked by interrogators, I want to play a little bit more of her chilling confession because she describes where to find little 5-year-old Jordan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ma`am, I would really love to get in touch with Jordan.
RODRIGUEZ: OK, is there any way I can give you, when I find the number? To contact you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
RODRIGUEZ: I got two.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any of the kids disabled?
RODRIGUEZ: He`s not really disabled, but that`s the one that`s with his dad.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How old is he?
RODRIGUEZ: He just turned five.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Where does he live?
RODRIGUEZ: He`s staying -- he doesn`t live there, but he`s just visiting for the holidays.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he usually upstairs?
RODRIGUEZ: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jordan has -- he has family members in Texas.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Do you know any numbers or any -- how to get in touch with anybody who actually lives in Texas?
RODRIGUEZ: I mean, right now, his phone just got disconnected. I`m waiting for him to call me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And you are hearing a little bit more from the tape. What she did say, by the way, in the burying part, was, hey, here`s where Jordan is
buried. We put him in a blanket, you heard about the whole suitcase thing. It is so heartbreaking.
[19:40:00] The one thing we don`t hear, and I want to bring in the prosecutor, Anna Faraglia, through all of this. By the way, bravo on this
case. They got some pretty serious sentences, 22 and what? 28 years is some pretty strong sentences. But yet, they never admitted to it. But
what we do know is the physical evidence. Poor little Jordan, whose body is there, buried in that suitcase in the backyard, Anna. As you know, his
body spoke, I mean, broken bones, broken wrists. Tell us about the injuries to him. Is there any doubt in your mind that this was not just a
sick child, that this was a child who had been severely beaten?
ANNA FARAGLIA, ASSISTANT PROSECUTING ATTORNEY: Rita, what we know is that he had been beaten in the past because he had healing fractures of ribs.
It was obviously a child that had been abused for a period of time. He had a fractured clavicle that was healing. So, it was a period of time that
this child had been abused while in the care and custody of his mother and his mother`s boyfriend. And we got 25 --
COSBY: Do you think we`ll ever find out (INAUDIBLE) Anna, do you think we`ll ever find out how it happened?
FARAGLIA: Rita, I don`t think we`ll ever find out, because really, a crime is usually known to the person who commits it. Unfortunately, in the
autopsy, because the child had lied in the ground for such a long period of time, the decomposition really played a factor in the medical examiner`s
examination of the body. And so we are lucky --
COSBY: Anna, it`s so heartbreaking to hear.
FARAGLIA: It is very heartbreaking. She got 25 years, and he got 28 years. So, it was a good penalty, though I know members of our community
wanted more, but there wasn`t more to give.
COSBY: Well, we`re going to have much more on this story right after the break. And talk about that and talk about how you pieced all of this
together as well.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
[19:46:33] JUDGE NANCY MARGARET RUSSO, CUYAHOGA COUNTY PLEAS COURT: I know as a judge, I`m not supposed to show emotion. In 22 years, I never have.
This is one of the worst things I`ve ever seen in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: It is so heartbreaking to hear. This is Rita Cosby in for Ashleigh Banfield. And it is a story so horrifying even the judge couldn`t help but
get emotional, as you just saw, at the sentencing. We are still talking about the Ohio woman who, along with her boyfriend, was convicted of
killing her own 5-year-old special needs son and burying him in the yard. And now, we`re hearing what Larissa Rodriguez told police, taking some of
the blame for her child`s death, but saying that she never hurt him. So, why does little Jordan have multiple fractured bones that were healing at
the time of his death?
We are back with our panel now. Vic, also, Anna, and also, Defense Attorney David Bruno. I want to first play, Anna, before I go to you. I
want to play when she was asked about these old injuries. Because her claim was that, oh, he was just sick. He`s an autistic child, there were a
lot of problems with him. He was getting sick, and he just died. But she was confronted about some of those broken bones.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did talk with the coroner.
RODRIGUEZ: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they finished their initial examination and there are some problems.
RODRIGUEZ: Like?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problems being Jordan had an old left wrist fracture. His left wrist was broken. At some point, it was healed. It
healed on its own.
RODRIGUEZ: How?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How? That`s something you need to tell us. Jordan also has three fractured left ribs that healed on their own and a fractured
right rib that healed on its own. And these are all injuries that were healing on their own, without medical help, which means he was in a lot of
pain for a very long time. And you`re not being honest about what was happening to this kid.
RODRIGUEZ: See, when -- what happened -- I mean, I personally didn`t, but I was scared myself, OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And let me bring in Anna Faraglia. When you see that, it`s so upsetting, Anna. How much did these injuries that were clearly in Jordan`s
body that they found again while afterwards because he was buried in the backyard. Thanks to his mom and the boyfriend. How much did they help
solidify the case? Because you got a pretty strong sentence against them, 22 to 28 years. Although some people I`m sure would like much more.
FARAGLIA: Well, we got 25 for the mom, Rita. And the injuries in and of themselves did help, because they did indicate, especially the healing rib
fractures, indicated that this child was abused. Because they were the floating ribs which had been fractured and were healing. And those are
very, very difficult to break because they`re only hinged on one side of our body. And so -- and he was a little tyke. He also appeared to be
malnourished, but we could never really get a definitive answer because of the fact that his body was so badly decomposed.
COSBY: It`s so heartbreaking.
[19:49:47] FARAGLIA: I mean, a fractured clavicle -- a fractured clavicle just doesn`t happen, you know what I mean, on a 5-year-old, without a just
explanation. And she wasn`t ever able to give any explanation. I mean, she professed her love for this child, but yet took him out of school,
never re-enrolled him in school, alienated him from family members. They never saw him when they came to the house. You know, he had to have been
ostracized and just kept in a room by himself, and nobody really ever questioned it, which is really pathetic.
COSBY: It is so heartbreaking to hear, Anna. And good for you, for prosecuting this case. I want to bring in David Bruno. When you hear
this, David, it is so heartbreaking, and my heart just breaks for little Jordan, who`s autistic. I`m the godmother of two autistic kids and you
know, autistic kids often -- and in this case, it sounds like they cannot speak, they`re having a hard time communicating. He could not say this is
what`s happening to me, and yet, still to this day, Larissa Rodriguez basically says the only thing I did was I didn`t take him to the hospital.
I mean, come on, that first of all is bad enough, but then clearly, what she seems to be -- she`s definitely tied to the burying, but this is
damning, don`t you think?
DAVID BRUNO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, well, Anna, you did a great job on this one, because those are two high numbers. The 25 and the 28 for not
being able to prove cause and manner.
(CROSSTALK)
COSBY: You`ve got an autistic boy who`s got broken bones --
BRUNO: Yes.
COSBY: You just heard about the clavicle from Anna.
BRUNO: Yes, no.
COSBY: It wasn`t like he just fell.
BRUNO: Oh, I agree, OK. This is -- this is a victim and I feel bad. But, however, the prosecutor still has to do their job. There`s a burden of
proof that has to be met here, proof beyond a reasonable doubt. When you don`t have --
COSBY: She did even admit to it, David.
BRUNO: Yes, but when you don`t have cause and manner, you can`t prove the murder. OK? It`s like Casey Anthony. Casey Anthony was acquitted down in
Florida because they couldn`t prove cause and manner. And I just have to say, again, the prosecutor did a tremendous job to get those very high
numbers, 25 and 28.
COSBY: But this mother doesn`t even seem remorseful, and I think that that is the most troubling thing when you`ll hear it. And the other issues,
too, there were so many people from social services that were coming to the house, and she said that I was worried about social services taking this
child away, because she had a history of problems before this. This was a -- this is a mother who had just 10 kids, just had a another one recently.
BRUNO: Yes.
COSBY: I mean, what is she doing being a mother? She can`t even take care of this poor little boy.
BRUNO: Well, I question whether or not maybe child services did enough.
COSBY: What? You`re blaming it on child services, not her?
BRUNO: No. Let`s say, if there`s been a history of abuse in this household, they could have done more. I would imagine, OK?
COSBY: No, you`re right.
BRUNO: I`m not putting it on them, it`s not their fault. Obviously, everyone makes their own decisions. However, when a prosecutor charges
something, they better be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. I don`t think a murder could`ve been proven here.
COSBY: Well, a lot of people dropped the ball as you point out. David, thank you. And everybody, we will be right back right after the break.
[19:55:00] (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSBY: And in Anaheim, California, a chef named Bruno Serato owns a successful high-end restaurant. Yet for more than a decade, this Italian
chef`s favorite customers have been the hungry kids who receive his free pasta dinners every night. Seven years ago, Bruno was recognized and
honored as a top 10 CNN Hero. But last year, tragedy struck and he responded in true heroic fashion.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRUNO: It`s my mission, feeding children that are hungry. But February 4th, 2017, at 4:00 in the morning I get this phone call that my restaurant
was on fire. You see your restaurant which you love, 30 years go in flames and ashes. I have no more kitchen. I cannot feed the kids anymore. But a
miracle happened.
How many kids love pasta?
I didn`t stop feeding the kids. 15 months later, we doubled the kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Really beautiful. So, how did Chef Bruno turn tragedy into triumph? Go to cnnheroes.com to find out. And you can get the full story
and nominate someone you know to be a CNN Hero.
And "ONE MORE THING" for you tonight, police lip-sync battles are so last week. Now, the challenge is to share the best dash or body cam bloopers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: Very funny. Well, the Carrollton Texas Police Department compiled this dash and body cam blooper reel and have thrown out the challenge to
other departments like all the lip-sync battle videos that have flooded your Facebook feed.
And we will see you back here on Monday night at 6:00 Eastern. Thanks for watching. Be sure to check out my debut ABC radio show Curtis and Cosby.
CNN`s Special Report, "CASEY ANTHONY, SUMMER OF LIES" begins right now.
END
