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HALA GORANI TONIGHT
A Military Parade And Black Tie Gala Dinner Will Kick Off Trump's Four-Day Stay In The UK, A Tension-Filled NATO Summit Behind Him And A Slew Of Protests Ahead For Donald Trump; Protesters Raise Giant Baby Balloon For U.S. President. Aired: 2:30-4:00p ET
Aired July 12, 2018 - 14:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
THERESA MAY, PRIME MINISTER OF GREAT BRITAIN: I am looking forward to seeing President Trump.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE United States: I think that they like me a lot in the UK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it is very hard to overstate just how unpopular he is in the UK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This NATO Summit has gone completely off of the tracks.
TRUMP: Everyone has agreed to substantially up their commitment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His strong me message on defense spending is having a real impact.
TRUMP: I think that NATO is much stronger than it was two days ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HALA GORANI, HOST, HALA GORANI TONIGHT: Hello, everyone. Welcome to an early edition of the program. I'm Hala Gorani live in London outside
Parliament. Tonight, President Trump says that he thinks that the people in the UK like him, in his words "a lot." He will soon find out if that is
true. Moments from now with a tension-filled NATO Summit behind him, and a slew of protests ahead.
Trump will be officially welcomed to Britain by Prime Minister Theresa May. These are live images from Blenheim Palace, the birthplace of Winston
Churchill where a military parade and black tie gala dinner will kick off Trump's four-day stay in the UK. Protesters are expected to greet
President Trump at every step of the way while he is here in London, and across the country for that matter.
Nick Paton Walsh joins me from outside the home of the US Ambassador where demonstrations, albeit, small at this hour are well under way. Nick,
what's going on where you are?
NICK PATON WALSH, SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Well, we have just in the last half an hour seen the two Osprey aircraft and helicopters
that will be transporting Donald and Melania Trump to Blenheim Palace where a meeting with the Prime Minister Theresa May take off and that resulted in
an extraordinary uproar from this crowd. The pack then was about 200 to 300 strong, I would say frankly, it has lessened now to about a hundred or
150 or so. The idea protest organizers have been would be to create the wall of noise that makes it hard for you the hear much of what I am saying
in the hope that Donald Trump would hear that, and of course, realize the strength of the feeling of the protestors against his presence here in the
UK, but it is slowing somewhat slightly here now.
Of course, Hala, the key points about this is, normally a President of the United States, a seated one would come to London and spend most of his time
in Buckingham Palace, Parliament, or around kind of the gilded corridors of power. In this case, it's sort of safe - it is a working visit and it's
geographically organized to keep him as far away from Central London as humanly possible, just past this fence here as our cameraman will show you
is the US Ambassador's residence, but it's shielded by this extra layer of security.
Quite extraordinary frankly that about a seven regions far to be taken up this, allowing him to land and take off, without really ever seeing any of
the members of the British public. They will be out in larger numbers tomorrow in Central London, and talks of tens of thousands possibly and
delivering the extraordinary site of a lockdown being now from security for a presidential visit, no, he is far out of town, 60 miles northwest of
where I'm standing is where he is standing now at Blenheim Palace, a lockdown will be because of the protesters who simply don't want him in the
GORANI: Nick Paton Walsh there outside the US Ambassador's residence in Central London. Perhaps a teaser of what we can expect tomorrow. Much
larger protests, and of course, that giant baby Trump blimp that is going to be flying over the city. And before leaving for London, Trump raised
eyebrows with his statement about NATO spending.
He member states had agreed to spend more money on defense because he told them to do it, and then, Donald Trump used that agreement to imply that he
is tough on Russia.
(START VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If you consider putting up tremendously additional funds at a level that nobody has ever seen before, I don't think that's helping Russia. I
think that NATO is much stronger now than it was two days ago. I think that NATO is not doing what they were supposed to be doing and a lot of the
countries, and we were doing much more than we should have been doing, and frankly, we were carrying too much of a burden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, it is not clear though that NATO allies actually agreed to any new extra spending. The French President Emmanuel Macron said that
they only recommitted to a spending agreement made four years ago. Jeremy Diamond is traveling with the President, and he ...
GORANI: ... joins me now live from London. The President even mentioned the figure 4% of GDP on defense spending, but was that ever brought up in
JEREMY DIAMOND, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, CNN: Well, the President certainly did raise that issue suggesting that perhaps the NATO members could raise
defense not just to 2% which is still a target that many NATO countries are trying to meet, but indeed to the 4%, but it does not appear like there was
any kind of agreement as far as reaching 4% or even any new agreement to reach the 2% threshold more quickly as the President seems to suggest today
when he said that NATO members are going to increase spending faster and to higher levels than they ever thought were possible.
So, the President's bold declarations really don't appear to be backed up by the facts particularly when you take into account the French President
Emmanuel Macron's statements suggesting there that President Trump did not secure any new commitments beyond the NATO communique that went out just
But really, what the President's news conference today, which was quite freewheeling and covered a lot of topics was really about his own optics,
and how he was portraying the success of the NATO Summit in his own view because clearly, the President was more focused on how this summit will be
portrayed rather than what specific commitments he actually achieved.
You know, I pressed the President today during that news conference as to whether or not he felt it was appropriate, that it was the right strategy
to go after Germany for example as he did talking about them being a captive to Russia, and the President really did defend his hard-nosed
tactics, insisting that it is indeed a good way for him to deal with NATO allies, a good way for him to try and negotiate increases in defense
spending, but again, as it stands right now, it does appears that the President had a lot of bluster and made a lot of comments that kind of
drove the narrative at this NATO summit, but it does not appear that he secured any new commitments on the defense spending from these NATO allies.
GORANI: All right. Jeremy Diamond, thanks very much. And I want to remind our viewers, what they are seeing there on the right-hand side of
the screen, it's Blenheim Palace outside of London where the big gala dinner welcoming the US President is about to take place. We're seeing
there the helicopter about to touch down.
The US President kept largely outside of Central London where these mass protests are expected tomorrow. He is overnighting at the US Ambassador's
residence near Regent's Park in Central London, but all of the meetings and events will be taking place outside. He'll be meeting the Queen for
instance in Windsor. He is at Blenheim Palace for this gala dinner, also the birthplace of Winston Churchill, also outside of London.
So he will not be, by the way traveling by car or any kind of road vehicle, he is flying from one location to the next as we continue to see these
helicopters make their way toward Blenheim Palace, and we'll be covering his exit from that helicopter in just a few moments and Alana Horowitz
Satlin is the senior editor of breaking of news "Huff Post" and she's covering the President's visit here in London.
So, Alana, what does the US - we know what Theresa May wants from the US President in the middle of Brexit, she's in the middle of this also big
political crisis in her own country, but what would the President like to achieve here?
ALANA HOROWITZ SATLIN, SENIOR EDITOR OF BREAKING NEWS, HUFFINGTON POST: It's not really clear why he's here to be perfectly honest. I mean, he
just had these extensive talks with May, he saw her in Brussels with all of the other NATO leaders. It's not totally clear what he is hoping to get
out of this specific meeting. I think what is clear is that he has less to lose from it than she does.
GORANI: And so, what she wants obviously is she wants that close relationship to be reestablished.
SATLIN: Right, she wants a trade deal.
GORANI: She was the first foreign leader to visit him after the election, and in the midst of Brexit, she needs an ally.
SATLIN: Exactly, and she really needs a trade partner because if she is going to go it alone and some of the existing trade relationships that she
had with the EU and especially if she ends up pursuing a harder Brexit, she needs all of the allies she can get, and she needs the US.
GORANI: What happened in Brussels here? The President went in. His critics said he basically insulted one of his closest allies, Angelica
Merkel of Germany. He made demands. He then made claims that other leaders like President Macron said were never something that anybody really
agreed to, for instance increasing defense spending above 2% of GDP, what's the strategy of the US President here?
SATLIN: Well, I think that there is not much strategy to a lot of these international trips. I think that he goes in, and I think he does what he
always does which is he creates a chaos, and he fixes it by citing something that was already in the works like this - the spending increase.
I mean, that was in the works from before - around the Crimea ...
GORANI: For all to reach 2% ...
SATLIN: Right, exactly, yes. So, he is saying - he goes into it, and he threatens to - whether or not he actually did threaten to pull out, he is
using really strong rhetoric. He tweets, "What's the point of NATO?" And then in the end, he ends up saying, "I affirm my commitment to NATO,"
without any actual new promises that they would do anything differently.
And actually, Angela Merkel said we are considering defense spending but it has nothing to do with Trump and what he said.
GORANI: But then again, he has pulled out, the US President of international agreements that people did not expect him necessarily to pull
out of. They thought maybe this is a way for him to negotiate a better deal for instance with the Iran deal, and the Paris Climate Accord and TPP,
but he has unilaterally pulled the US out of these international agreements that took years to negotiate.
SATLIN: Of course, but there is a difference between pulling out of a deal that was in the works for several years and pulling out of a post World War
II agreement. I mean, NATO came way before Trump was a politician, and it'll extend after his presidency.
GORANI: So you think there is a difference between NATO, a military alliance that was designed to counter Soviet influence, and maybe the Iran
deal with the Paris Climate Accord. Do you think in his mind ...
SATLIN: Right, they're not long - I think they're not longstanding agreements, and I think that he sees them as more tenuous, and he
understands what global chaos it would cause if he pulls out of that massive alliance like that, and not just for other countries, but for the
GORANI: What about his allies? I'm talking European allies, or even Justin Trudeau of Canada or others. Are they just waiting out this
presidency? Thinking, "Well, if we just wait it out a few more years, and maybe we won't win re-election and we will just put this period behind us?"
SATLIN: I think that that does seem to be what is happening a little bit, because I think that all - at the end of the day, all of these allies -
Germany, the UK, France, they know that they can't really go it without the US, I mean, it is the most powerful economy in the world, and they don't
want to - and it is an important - and with the UK also, it is an important intelligence gathering alliance and military partnership as well.
And I think they know that it is in their best interest to just sort of do whatever they can to deal with him as diplomatically as possible without
disrupting too much of what they have had in the past.
GORANI: What should we expect from the Trump/Putin summit in Helsinki?
SATLIN: The Trump/Putin will be really interesting, I think, because he has been promising over and over again to talk about the election meddling.
GORANI: And Ukraine.
SATLIN: And Ukraine, but he says that, you know, if Putin says that he doesn't - didn't meddle in the election, what am I going to say? So, I
think it will be interesting to watch the dynamic play out. It will be interesting to watch what the reaction is in the US, whether this fuels any
fodder to the Mueller probe or anything like that. One thing for certain is that he is looking forward to that way more than he has looking forward
to meeting with May this week.
GORANI: Well, and even said, it will be probably be the easiest or could be the easiest part of the trip. By the way, here is what's going on,
Alana, at Blenheim Palace. This is the birthplace of Winston Churchill where Theresa May will be welcoming Donald Trump and Melania Trump any
minute now. They've choppered in from Central London to Blenheim Palace, a 300-year-old palace. It was in fact the Convalescence Hospital for wounded
soldiers during World War I, very rich and deep history on thousands of acres of land.
Now a Downing Street's spokesperson has told us that the event will begin with a military ceremony and you see them gathered here in the Great Court.
This is what you're seeing on your screens now, performed by the bands of the Scots, Irish and Welsh guards. They will play the "Liberty Fanfare,"
"Amazing Grace" as well, and the "National Emblem."
During the dinner, the Countess of Wessex's Orchestra, which is a military ensemble will play a series of classic American hits, not exactly sure
which ones, and then the Royal Regiment of Scotland will pipe the President out at the end. So, here, the British government and here's Theresa May
and her husband in Blenheim Palace. They're really rolling out the red carpet here, Alana. You could can see it here. They really need to the
make - and they're playing also to what they believe the President of the United States will like, right?
SATLIN: Right, absolutely. I mean, the military parade is right up - show is right up Trump's alley, I mean, he loves that. He loves showing off his
own military, and he loves the power of the Armed Forces, so it really plays right into his hands. They know who they are working with.
GORANI: And we saw a picture of the First Lady Melania Trump wearing a long yellow dress, and here, we see Theresa May also in a ball gown. We
are not used to seeing her dressed up like that. She's usually in her business attire there conducting ...
GORANI: ... important political negotiations and meeting world leaders and here she is, waiting for the First Lady and President Donald Trump to
arrive at Blenheim Palace and then tomorrow, there will be the tea with the Queen. That is going to be also interesting to see those images, right?
SATLIN: Absolutely. I think we will get - I would love to be a fly on the wall to hear his conversations with the Queen. I mean, what could they be
GORANI: The queen has, I believe, met 17 or 18 US Presidents.
SATLIN: Yes, the only President that she has not met while she was Queen, I believe was Johnson.
GORANI: Lyndon Johnson, absolutely, and I was curious as to why actually because some presidents served, I mean, like basically much less than
Lyndon Johnson, for some reason they never got to meet, so this is not her first rodeo for Queen Elizabeth.
SATLIN: Certainly not.
GORANI: Absolutely. So, it's going to be interesting because we're going to actually put the sound up once this happens, let's see how you really
have an entire audio celebration surrounding the President's visit.
There is a lot of history to Blenheim Palace. This was owned by the Hutton family, so a year after the war, Barbara Hutton came back to visit - this
is Winfield, I should say, House, the US Ambassador's Residence, not Blenheim Palace which is the birthplace of Winston Churchill, and there you
see what is called the Great Port, and the bands that are at the ready, ready to perform these military parade tunes.
The Scots, Irish and Welsh guards among others here gathered to welcome the President and First Lady. We were discussing, Alana, he will not set foot
apart from spending the night at the Ambassador's Residence in Central London, but we know he likes to watch television and we know he likes to
watch cable news, and he must be aware of the tens of thousands of people who will protest this visit.
SATLIN: I'm sure that he is aware and I'm sure that that was - that went into the thought process in why he is completely circumventing London. I
think that he is - I mean, I'm sure there's going to be a protest elsewhere in the country, but I think, obviously, the most riotous ones will be in
the city. That's where the blimp is going to be and Donald Trump does not mind being criticized, but he does - we now that he does - I think it
bothers him when he is mocked.
I mean, all the jokes about his small hands, that seems to really get to him, and I think, probably the blimp would be too much for him.
GORANI: Well, the giant baby balloon does have very small hand, that's something that's certainly when they designed it, they wanted to make sure
that it was one of the features of it. We were discussing also the Helsinki summit, I do wonder though what Theresa May - I mean, there are
business leaders gathered. This isn't just a meeting between Theresa May, her husband and the First Lady and President Trump, this is also a big
black tie dinner where about 150 CEOs and heads of businesses and industry will be gathered and this is very important for the UK to highlight as
GORANI: They want to make sure that these, you know, big bosses gets some face time with the American President, right?
SATLIN: Definitely. And I think they also want to, you know, to make sure that the US still knows what an economic power that the UK is.
GORANI: There are now - we do not have confirmed lists of attendees, but we do know that some are not attending. we believe that Richard Branson,
the billionaire Richard Branson who of course owns the Virgin brand, the Virgin Atlantic, they did have a bit of a public spat. He is reportedly
not on the guest list. We don't know if he was invited and then turned down the invitation or if he was not invited at all.
But we do reportedly have the head of Rolls Royce, Barclays - all big, big brand name businesses in the UK. Here we have the motorcade, so we
understand that the helicopter touched down and that the President and the First Lady and their entourage will be traveling to Blenheim Palace in this
Let's pause a moment, and take a look at these images as they unfold outside of London in Blenheim Palace. The Prime Minister Theresa May and
her husband about to greet President Trump and the First Lady Melania Trump.
SATLIN: You know, in the chopper ride at the Ambassador's residence earlier today, they played the song, "We can work it out," by the Beatles.
GORANI: Here we understand "Amazing Grace " will be one of the tunes played by the Scots, Irish and Welsh guards band. Here we see the back of
the head of the US President, walking out of the Presidential limo. All right, and Alana, we are - the First Lady, I understand is wearing J.
Mendel, and there have Theresa May in a long red gown and the President of the United States and the Prime Minister's husband both in their tuxes
making their way to the room at Blenheim Palace where this big black tie dinner will be taking place. Let's listen to band.
(WELCOME CEREMONY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP)
HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: So, there you have it, the U.S. president and the first lady, Melania Trump, greeted by the prime minister
of the U.K., Theresa May and her husband, Philip. There was a medley of songs there performed by the military band, "Hands Across The Sea",
There are about 150 reported assembled guests at this black-tie gala dinner at Blenheim Palace, the 300-year-old Blenheim Palace. The building is rich
in history here in the United Kingdom that sits on thousands of acres of land, the birthplace of Sir Winston Churchill.
This is a true red-carpet welcome for the U.S. president, who will, of course, also be, quote/unquote, "greeted by protesters tomorrow," tens of
thousands of people expected to protest in the U.K. capital as well as other parts of the United Kingdom.
But tonight, it is pomp, circumstance, and it is the who's who of British business and industry gathered at Blenheim Palace. This comes at a very
difficult time for the U.K. prime minister.
Two senior cabinet members of hers resigned over disagreements on Brexit and a contentious NATO summit in Brussels where the U.S. president was seen
by some as being rude to some of the U.S. allies, including Angela Merkel, demanding some of the countries spend more on defense to meet the 2 percent
of GDP target.
I am joined by Jacob Parakilas, the deputy head of the U.S. and Americas Program at Chatham House. Jacob, here you have it. First of all, they're
lucky with the weather. The marching band is there, bag pipes will be playing the president out. The U.K. and specifically Theresa May wants to
make a good impression here, doesn't she?
[15:05:13] JACOB PARAKILAS, U.S. AND THE AMERICAN PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Yes. This isn't formally a state visit, but they've gone to extraordinary
lengths to give it the trappings of one. There will be the formal black- tie dinner that's going on, military bands. Tomorrow, there will be a military demonstration, tea with the queen.
They're doing everything they can to impress Trump with pomp and circumstance. He tended to respond positively to that, but it doesn't
necessarily have a long-term impact. We've seen him respond positively to a similar display from Emmanuel Macron and then turn around and attack some
of France's policies in some of France's approaches particularly as part of the E.U.
GORANI: I was going to bring up my (inaudible) I remember the headlines were about the new Macron-Trump bromance after he visited the U.S.
president and gave that address to the joint session of Congress in Washington, and then days later it seems like the two leaders had already
PARAKILAS: If you asked me six or eight months ago the three U.S. ally leaders that had the best job of making a relationship with Donald Trump, I
would have said probably some combination of Macron, Justin Trudeau, and Shinzo Abe. They've all seen Trump either sort of publicly turn on them or
ignore their stated requests or shut them out of important negotiations. So, there's a real-- there's a balancing act, but it is also not
necessarily a long-term strategy.
GORANI: Let's just quickly listen in to the last few notes of this marching band. We saw the president and first lady walk into the Blenheim
Palace. Let's listen in for a moment.
(MARCHING BAND PLAYING)
GORANI: So, Jacob and we're going to be discussing very serious policy issues in a moment, but reports indicate that the Blenheim Palace dinner
menu will include Scottish salmon, English beef fillet and vegetables, and strawberries and ice cream. I thought it would be slightly more complex
than that, sometimes simple is better.
PARAKILAS: They're sticking with simple, reliable things. The president is known to like very well-done red meat, so I think that's a safe choice.
GORANI: All right. Let's talk about what we expect from the visit overall because these protests, the president may not see them firsthand, because
he won't be driving through any protest crowds, but he'll know that tens of thousands of Brits are protesting his visit. He is quite unpopular in this
PARAKILAS: You have a number of public opinion surveys carried out that regularly show hl approval rating underwater or very underwater with the
British public. Certainly, there are some people here that like him, but decidedly a minority. That's true across really much of Western Europe.
So, I think there needs to be -- there's an understanding on the British government's part, particularly on the Greater London authority, Sadiq Khan
has been out sort of defending his decision to allow the flying of the baby Trump blimp, which will be just over our shoulders above parliament
tomorrow briefly in the morning.
But it's a tight rope for the British government, they have to acknowledge this is a Democratic country and people are free to express their opinions,
but also, they have to indicate that this is an important relationship.
And they have to build on that relationship because especially with Britain leaving the European Union, the relationship with the United States is as
important as it has ever been, unfortunately, it's also as complicated and difficult as it has ever been.
GORANI: I wonder if some of these leaders, especially some of these NATO country leaders are thinking OK, these are crazy times. This president is
unlike any other president. He is unconventional. He is unpredictable. If we wait him out, we'll go back to the way things have always been done
before. Do you think that's the state of mind of some of the leaders?
PARAKILAS: I think it is the state of mind. I don't necessarily think it is an effective strategy. I think there's a real sense that this is a
blip. That's beginning to change because maybe at the beginning of the administration, you could commit yourself, well, he is talking about NATO
in a native light but surrounded by people like Rex Tillerson and Jim Mattis and H.R. McMaster. That was 2017. It's 2018 Trump's team has
GORANI: That's not the thinking anymore.
[15:10:08] PARAKILAS: That's not the thinking. There's still an element of it, clinging to that, but I think there's a real understanding that
actually things are significantly changing, and this is a president that takes a significantly dimmer view of traditional American alliances than
any other president of either party in the modern era.
GORANI: All right. Jacob Parakilas of Chatham House, thanks very much. Laura, my producer just said something to me. Could you repeat it, please,
Laura? Got it. So, just being told that among the guest list is the foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, Boris Johnson having resigned in protest
over Brexit negotiations.
The chancellor, Philip Hammond, international trade secretary, Liam Fox, who was the first minister to greet Mr. Trump at the airport this
afternoon. All right. Also, of course, business and industry leaders who were as you saw them there in the great court of Blenheim Palace assembled,
walked in after the president and first lady and the prime minister and her husband.
It has been a whirlwind day for the U.S. president. He started that day in Brussels, immediately causing a stir at the NATO summit by turning up late
and then calling for an emergency meeting with other NATO members.
Later in the morning, he held an impromptu news conference where he claimed victory after crisis talks on defense spending. Next stop was London,
first official visit to the U.K. since he was elected. This was the president in Brussels earlier.
Mr. Trump's plane, Air Force One, was greeted by a welcoming party in London. A reminder how things unfolded in the morning. There you have the
first lady with the president, greeted on the tarmac by several officials including the U.S. ambassador to the U.K., Woody Johnson.
Now minutes later, a quick Marine One ride to the ambassador's residence in Regents Park in Central London where they spent several hours before
heading to Blenheim Palace. Images that we just saw that Jacob and I just commented on.
Mr. Trump flew to Britain after making that dramatic exit at NATO, that free-wheeling news conference claiming victory after a crisis. Many of the
reporters, their questions focused on Russia, underscoring concerns about his upcoming system summit with Vladimir Putin.
NATO's final communique with harsh criticism of Moscow, says they'll never accept the annexation of Crimea. Mr. Trump himself was much more vague
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: That was on Barack Obama's watch, that was not on Trump's watch. Would I have allowed
it to happen? No, I would not have allowed it to happen, but he did all it to happen. So, that was his determination. What will happen with Crimea
from this point on, that I can't tell you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Now, Mr. Trump's main priority was getting NATO allies to increase their defense spending, and he called that mission accomplished.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT TRUMP: Tremendous progress has been made. Everyone has agreed to substantially up their commitment, they're going to up it at levels they
never thought of before. Only 5 of 29 countries who are making their commitment and that's now changed. The commitment was at 2 percent,
ultimately that will be going up quite a bit higher than that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, Mr. Trump went on to say you can ask the NATO secretary general for the numbers involving the increased spending. That's what
Christiane Amanpour did. She wouldn't stop asking him about this 4 percent number that the president mentioned seemingly out of nowhere until he gave
an answer or even non-answer. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Can you just give me a yes or no. Have NATO allies agreed to a 4 percent share of their
GDP for military spending, have they agreed to up it from 2 to 4 percent?
JENS STOLTENBERG, NATO SECRETARY GENERAL: We have agreed to make good on the commitments we have made, meaning increasing defense spending
substantially and there's a new sense of urgency. More has come in since Trump also (inaudible) more than $40 billion has come in from European
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: So, the bottom line, commitment of NATO members to contribute 2 percent of their GDP defense spending remains the same. As the secretary
general says, there's new sense of urgency to meet those goals.
Let's bring White House reporter, Jeremy Diamond, he's here in London. We're also joined by Fred Pleitgen in Moscow. So, Jeremy Diamond, again,
what the president said that NATO is working toward is something that was already in place before his presidency. It appears as we often witness
with this president, manufacturing a crisis and then presenting himself as the savior.
[15:15:07] JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Absolutely. You know, this was the Trump show that we saw over the last few days with the
president in Brussels for this NATO summit. The president was clearly orchestrating a lot of this behind the scenes. It began the first day when
he got to Brussels with some insults lobbed at Germany.
Later there were these veiled threats about whether or not the United States would go it alone or suggesting that he wouldn't be happy if those
defense commitments were not increased. Then there was a grand finale that we saw with this press conference that was suddenly announced.
I don't know if it was suddenly planned, but it was suddenly announced to the press corps, setting off a scramble. Really the president showed a lot
of his showmanship the last few days. The only agreements, commitments that NATO allies made happened yesterday in this joint communique that all
of the NATO allies signed on to.
And it did talk about meeting that 2 percent GDP spending commitment, but by 2024, which is something that has already been set, but the president
today suggesting they were going to go beyond that.
He got stiffly rebuked by the French President Emmanuel Macron today, who said simply that the communique was all that the allies agreed to and there
was nothing beyond that. You saw there, Jens Stoltenberg, the NATO secretary general squirming, really struggling to swat away questions that
Really, he did define the narrative at the summit and really detracted from showing united front ahead of heading to Helsinki to meet with Russian
President Vladimir Putin, instead really making it about him versus the rest of the NATO alliance.
GORANI: And Fred Pleitgen, let's talk about Helsinki on Monday. All eyes will be on that summit and the U.S. president himself said this could be
the easiest part of his trip.
FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly the Russians seem to think so as well, Hala. I think there's two things
that are going to be interesting. First of all, obviously, the summit itself, but then also how it compares to that NATO summit that just ended.
How is the relationship going to be between Vladimir Putin and President Trump as opposed to President Trump and some of America's closest and
oldest allies in the transatlantic alliance.
And I think right now the Russians are betting that the optics are probably going to be a little better at the summit that Vladimir Putin will be part
of. It is been very, very interesting to see the messaging out of the kremlin, Hala, over the past of couple days.
They've been trying to keep it very low key. They've been saying, look, if there are rifts in the transatlantic alliance, it's none of our business.
They say it is nothing new for them to say they don't like the transatlantic alliance, they feel it infringes on Russia.
They feel it's a threat against Russia or to Russia. They think that it's moving closer toward the borders. Obviously one of the things they don't
necessarily like to hear is President Trump talking about NATO getting more money.
But I think they also feel that possibly some of the things that President Trump spoke about today are not simply not going to happen, that goal of
reaching 4 percent of GDP on defense spending. I think in total, the rifts that are going on in NATO is something that certainly the Russians are not
unhappy to see.
The kremlin is one thing, then tv pundits and politicians are saying they've never seen anything like this before. They have never seen an
American president undermine an age-old alliance that the Soviet Union was trying to undermine its day, and now they feel as being considerably
weakened, especially the European part of it.
The part of it that went with Angela Merkel against President Trump is certainly something that the Russians have really latched onto and are
clearly seeing -- Hala.
GORANI: All right. Fred Pleitgen in Moscow, Jeremy Diamond here in London. I believe you can't see from our camera position here. I
understand that protesters have already started unfurling what looks like a giant banner, Trump climate genocide, so one of many groups here, climate
activists organizing protests against the visit of Donald Trump, very unhappy with the U.S. president withdrawing from the Paris Climate Accord
among other things.
To give you an idea of where we are, we're across the Thames River from the Houses of Parliament, Westminster. This will be visible from the other
side if you imagine the banner is below me. If you're in the Houses of Parliament, you will see big banners, and of course, the much talked about
giant baby Trump balloon as well will be flying over the capital city.
Still to come tonight, thousands are set to protest Donald Trump's visit to London as we've been discussing, but the president will probably not see
it. We'll speak to one of the organizers of the protest marches, but it's not an unfriendly welcome from everyone as the red carpet is rolled out for
[15:20:10] We'll look at why the U.K. government is pulling out all the stops. We'll be right back.
GORANI: Welcome back. Protesters are expected to rally during President Trump's visit, but will these anti-Trump events make any difference? Will
the president even see them? I am joined by activist, Shola Mos- Shagbamimu, the organizer of the Women's March in London that takes place in the capital city tomorrow. Thanks for being with us.
SHOLA MOS-SHAGBAMIMU, ANTI-TRUMP PROTEST ORGANIZER: Thank you.
GORANI: First of all, why did you think it was important to protest the president's visit, especially knowing he probably won't be in Central
London to see them?
MOS-SHAGBAMIMU: We have no doubt in our minds that President Donald Trump will not only hear about it and watch it on tv, we know some of his
favorite channels will be watching it. We think it is incredibly important to use this opportunity quoting Martin Luther King. It is a glorious
opportunity while he's in this country for the people to come together to demonstrate against the misogynistic, divisive, inhumane policies coming
out of Trump-Pence administration.
GORANI: So, it is not just the visit, it is his policies in the United States that you object to?
MOS-SHAGBAMIMU: Yes, I mean, it's really more about his policies. He has been elected as president of the country, so he is coming on a working
visit. When he wasn't here, we demonstrated against what he stood for, what he represented, what his administration represented. So, of course,
we're going to do the same when he's here.
I mean, last year alone, look at the global marches organized by women across the length and breadth of the world, standing together in solidarity
to say no more, enough is enough. We can't have this divisive approach, misogynistic approach in our society any more.
GORANI: As you are speaking to us, we're seeing images of the president and first lady at Blenheim Palace, and they got a red-carpet welcome there
with the military marching band, they'll have bagpipes playing them out. When you see the U.K. government organize virtually a state visit for the
U.S. president, what goes through your mind?
MOS-SHAGBAMIMU: That is not a state visit. So, in any effect if any other president --
GORANI: But it is --
MOS-SHAGBAMIMU: Given that he is the president, they would have to receive him in some formal way. What we are doing tomorrow across the length and
breadth of the United Kingdom is not just a demonstration against negative policies of the Trump administration, it is a call out to our elected
government officials to say we the people are the government.
We the people say to you that when you do negotiate, engage with President Donald Trump and his administration, you represent us. It cannot be that
as a government you make decisions that take back all that we fought for.
[15:25:06] It has to be progressive and if they're not willing to give, then you stand up, speak up, show up. That's what we are encouraging
people to do tomorrow.
GORANI: How many are you expecting?
MOS-SHAGBAMIMU: Last year 100,000 people showed up. Tomorrow we're ready to make it count, 12:00 p.m. at BBC Portland Place.
GORANI: All right. Shola Mos-Shagbamimu, thanks so much for joining us, organizing the women's march tomorrow in London.
I spoke earlier with Peter Westmacott, former British ambassador to the United States, we talked about the protests over Mr. Trump's visit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER WESTMACOTT, FORMER U.K. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: My guess is that the White House will have been pretty keen to not have hostile demonstrations
which distracted the president from the visit. I am sure the British authorities as well didn't particularly want to shut down the whole of
London because of that.
But the program looks to me like it is carefully choreographed to fly him in and out, do the essentials, go to the Blenheim Palace tonight, echoes at
Winston Churchill, tea with the queen tomorrow, I think it is to have minimal contact with people that might have made him feel uncomfortable.
GORANI: It's a tricky visit for Theresa May because two of her senior cabinet members resigned, including her foreign minister, Brexit secretary,
then this comes off a very controversial contentious NATO summit in Brussels. How does she play her cards?
WESTMACOTT: It's a really complicated week. The NATO summit was already a worry. Often a bit of a snoozer, NATO sum it summits. This time because
of what President Trump has said in advance about NATO spending and contribution, because of remarks in the beginning, remarks about Germany
being bought by Russia, controlled by Russia, that sort of thing, this was more controversial. Many of the allies are worried.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Sir Peter Westmacott, former U.K. ambassador to the U.S. There are some people who do support Donald Trump's U.K. visit. One London pub
has even rebranded itself as the Trump arms during his trip.
Freddy Gray is the deputy editor of "The Spectator," joins me here in London. Freddie, thanks for being with us. What do you make of these
protests going on? I mean, do you think what we were speaking with earlier about the women's march, our audience is the elected officials, want them
to know we the people oppose Donald Trump's policies.
FREDDY GRAY, DEPUTY EDITOR, "THE SPECTATOR": Wouldn't want to stand in the way of people protesting, it is wonderful that people can do that. But I
do think most British people are a little bit embarrassed because I think most British people distinguish between the office of the presidency and
Donald Trump himself.
And even if they don't find Trump particularly pleasant, they don't think he is a fascist or Nazi. They don't agree with what a lot of protesters
say about him and I think it is a little bit insulting and unwelcoming, impolite to our greatest historic ally to treat the president like this.
GORANI: I think when you look at, for instance, what the president said about Angela Merkel or Germany, you can make the argument this is one of
America's closest allies and the president of the United States is being rude to Angela Merkel. He is so atypical and acts in a way that's rude and
brash that we just don't want him to feel welcome.
GRAY: Michelle Obama said when they go low, you go high. The point of the Trump resistance should be that this is a vulgar, coarse man, don't engage
on his level.
GORANI: So, ignore him?
GRAY: Don't even have to ignore him. Don't make a celebration of your anti-Trump business. A lot of Americans will be pleased he is hated in
this way publicly, but I think a lot of Americans will think it is a bit rude and British citizens will think he is important, delicate relations
GORANI: He is unpopular according to polls in this country, the U.S. president.
GRAY: Well, the funny thing, I can only go anecdotally, polls are never good for Trump. I talked to a lot of people with Trump, you end up with
that after two or three exchanges, well, he has some good point and there's a sympathetic support for him. That may be the sign that Britain is
turning far right like America, I don't know. I think it also suggests that there's an element of support for Trump as a person sticking two
fingers up to the political establishment.
GORANI: There's a difference to that and saying some of the things he says about minorities, about women. What he said even about Elizabeth Warren, a
U.S. senator, we have to give her a DNA test, but it will have to be gentle because it is the age of me too. Things like that that truly shock people
or calling Mexicans rapists or entire parts of the world s-holes. There's a difference between than and just saying, you know, sticking it to the
GRAY: I'm afraid I'm rather cynical. And I think that Trump deliberately caused those reactions. And you hear about unity and him being a divisive
president. But I think they're just playing his game, that's falling into his trap every time.
GORANI: You think it's a trap.
GRAY: I think partly, yes. I think he will say something, so example the Mexican rapists, he said some Mexicans are rapists, it was a very
offensive, disturbing thing to say. But then people look at the crates and they said, oh, well, he said some Mexicans or something. So it's a
divisive game he plays. And I'm afraid the protesters fall for it every time.
GORANI: But is it also just kind of stoking these fears that people have of immigration that are latent, that are there, and then when you have a
politician taking advantage of that, they will respond.
GRAY: I think he says what a lot of people think, and it's not pleasant, but I don't think he's really inciting violence yet. Maybe he will. We'll
GORANI: Freddie Gray, the deputy editor at The Spectator. Thanks so much for joining us. We really appreciate you on the program this evening.
We'll be back after a quick break. Stay with us.
GORANI: Welcome back to the special edition of HALA GORANI TONIGHT. We're live in London just across the river from parliament. Donald Trump is
getting the red carpet treatment from Prime Minister Theresa May this hour. You're seeing some of the images from Blenheim Palace just moments ago.
The U.S. President and First Lady Melania are attending a black tie gala dinner at Blenheim Palace in Oxfordshire. There's been no shortage of
ceremony, of pomp and ceremony as the Trumps were greeted with an elaborate military welcome ceremony. And you're seeing there assembled guests
waiting to the side for the president and first lady and the prime minister Theresa May and husband Philip to enter the building, so rich in history.
Jacob Parakilas is here with me. He's the deputy head of the U.S. and Americas Programme at Chatham House. And we were talking earlier about how
important it is for Theresa May to get some of the big industry and business leaders of the U.K. some facetime with the American president.
Why is it important for her right now to do that?
JACOB PARAKILAS, DEPUTY U.S. AND AMERICAS PROGRAMME, CHATHAM HOUSE: Well, she needs to really build up in Trump's mind the sense of the importance of
the economic relationship between the two countries because the big thing on the table is prospect of the U.S.-U.K. bilateral trade agreement after
Brexit happens presumably next year. Now, that's tricky because until Britain settles the terms of its exit from European Union, it can negotiate
with the U.S. It can negotiate any trade deals because it doesn't know if it's going to be a member of the customs union or the single market. There
are all sorts of complications. So this is laying the ground work. This is impressing upon the American and his foreign policy that British
industry is an important partner in defense, in telecommunications and financial services, and getting him sort of think about the links that
should be made between the two countries. The problem is a lot of these links are strong. SO it's not clear how she can improve upon.
[15:35:36] GORANI: There's not much to improve upon. Exactly. Stand by, Jacob, because Nick Paton Walsh, our reporter, is outside the U.S.
ambassador's residence in London, that's where President Trump will be spending the night. And there are protesters gathering where you are,
Nick. Tell us more.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Hala, it's a much diminished scene behind me from what we saw about two hours ago where the sight of the
winged aircraft and helicopters that are transporting Donald Trump around over the capitol just protesting his presence, they caused a substantial
boo to rise up in a 20 or 300 strong protests crowds here then. But now, significantly smaller numbers. One with a horn and a few hitting the fence
still here. Yes, you're right. He's coming back here tonight. I doubt these people will still be here for that and frankly the noise they're
making don't even heard by him. But it was extraordinary to see quite the volume of contempt we heard from the 200, 300 crowd earlier on. He's about
300, 400 meters inside the actual residents here. About seven regents parked fenced stopped by the security railings and overturn, make sure that
the protesters couldn't really come anywhere near him at all. He apparently landed to the sound of The Beatles "We can work it out" being
played as he got off Marine One into this area here. We heard ourselves out they were playing a medley of pop tunes, sort of party atmosphere for
But make no mistake, when he talks about flying into a "hot spot" in his mind, he means the political turmoil that Theresa May is experiencing with
a number of high profile cabinet resignations. But frankly, tomorrow, we will see the hotspot in different terms with potentially tens of thousands
of protestors locking down parts of Central London, a substantial march in the afternoon, where we're seeing many more of the slogans we've seen here,
orange is the new Nazi, as one we've seen. Trump for prison. A lot of contempt for his decisions on climate change, immigration, and I think more
generally, the sort of racist overtone as many Europeans perceive particularly in a cosmopolitan multiethnic city like this London see and
pretty much the electoral platform of Donald Trump. Hala.
GORANI: Nick Payton Walsh, thanks very much, outside the U.S. ambassador's residence in Central London. Jacob Parakilas is still here with me. And
looking forward to Monday, this is really going to be the face-to-face meeting that I think will be of most interest to people in this entire
trip. Because the U.S. president has appeared friendlier to America's traditional "enemies" or adversaries like Vladimir Putin or even Kim Jong-
un of North Korea than toward his allies. What do you expect from that meeting?
PARAKILAS: Well, I'm not sure if there's going to be much of substance that comes out of that. But we don't know what's going to be talked about.
Trump isn't bringing his foreign policy team into the room. He's not bringing anyone, except an interpreter into the room. So we're relying on
Trump's telling and Putin's telling of what transpired. I don't expect to see any kind of meaningful joint declaration. There probably be some kind
of performance statement about trying to make progress on the issues that divide us and finding common ground so and so forth. But I don't know that
there's going to be a sort of substantive take away. So a lot of it will depend on what perceptible from the outside, the body language, the
statements that the two leaders make, the joint press conference, which I believe there is one. That sort of thing. But I think the real question
of what goes on in the room, and unfortunately, I don't think we're going to get a good answer for that.
GORANI: But the U.S. president likes a well-produced show. Doesn't he? So it is as much about how many people will be watching and what reaction
he gets than about any substance, it seems. Because he routinely talks about crowd sizes, and ratings, and attention directed at him.
PARAKILAS: Yes. But I mean, just the substance, just the fact of having a meeting between Trump and Putin will generate so much heat, and generate so
much -- well, light rather than heat. There'll be so much attention focused on that meeting that I don't think anything further will be
necessary to sort of take that box.
GORANI: How do you explain the U.S. president has been so reluctant to criticize Vladimir Putin, and so -- but yet has so easily criticized
traditional allies. How do you explain that?
[15:40:00] PARAKILAS: I think leaving the whole question of investigations and collusion or whatever to the side, I think there's a real world view
issue with Trump where he has a world view that I think was shaped by the pre-World War II era. He doesn't see the U.S. having long-term allies who
are sort of dependable, reliable. He looks ta things and sees balance sheets. I think he sees in people like Putin and Kim Jong-un, leaders that
see the world in the same way. The sort of very --
PARAKILAS: Transactional but also just kind of there's no -- there's none of this multilateralism. You can sit in a room and have a meeting. Now,
does that work in the world of 2018? I think it's very difficult to make the argument that it does, but it's how he sees it, and that's how he's
always talked about. As inconsistent as he's been about many issues over the course of his life, that sense of sort of a premodern foreign policy
has been very, very consistent. That view has held true throughout the entire time that he's been talking in any sense about it.
GORANI: Well, we'll see how that unfolds. But until then, we have a day of meetings and a meeting with the queen, and working meeting as well with
the prime minister and protests to cover. And then he will be spending the weekend at one of his golf courses in Scotland. Jacob Parakilas, thanks
very much of Chatham House. We appreciate it.
Just days after U.S. President Donald Trump publicly referred to the U.K. as the country in turmoil, he's here and he's landed in the middle of a
political storm. Theresa May's government is in crisis. There's been two significant resignations. Speaking at the NATO summit, Mr. Trump weighed
in on the issue that sparked it, Mrs. May's Brexit plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I would say that Brexit is Brexit. It's not like, I guess when you use the term hard Brexit, I assume
that's what you mean. The people voted to break it up so I would imagine that's what they'll do, but maybe they'll take it a little bit of a
different route. So I don't know if that's what they voted for.
GORANI: Well, just hours ago, Britain's new Brexit secretary released a white paper essentially detailing how the U.K. wants out of the E.U., so
does it want a hard Brexit? Does it want a soft Brexit? The plan would see free movement between the U.K. and Europe go, replaced by Visa free
travel. And on the Irish border, a major sticking point in Brexit negotiations has suggests allowed trusted businesses to trade back and
forth. But the softer plan has split Mrs. May's government, prompting two high profile government resignations in recent days as we've been saying.
Does this Brexit in name only? We'll have to see how in the next few weeks those Tory, members of the Tory, of the conservative party in this country,
whether or not they rebel against the prime minister, some of those who want harder Brexit or whether or not -- or whether they go along.
Still to come tonight. Do you think the people of Croatia were happy at beating England last night? I don't know. I'd say maybe. We'll be right
[15:45:23] GORANI: To the World Cup now. One of the smallest nations in this year's tournament is going wild.
Croatia is headed for Sunday's final versus France. To get there, they went to extra time for a third straight match, finally scoring a late goal
to beat England two-one. From the streets of Zagreb to the halls of power, fans and politicians don the distinctive checker board design to get behind
their heroes. This is Zagreb yesterday. The country's prime minister talked about what it means for Croatia to reach its first ever final.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREJ PLENKOVIC, PRIME MINISTER OF CROATIA: The Croatian team has been playing very well throughout the tournament. They have demonstrated that
it's not by chance that our main players are currently playing in the top European football clubs in the best leagues, and I think they showed a lot
of resilience after not so convincing first half, but then they've mastered the game completely in the second half and the extra time. So, of course,
we were all cheering, given the fact that this is a historic event for the Croatian sports, Croatian football. Only 20 years has passed since our
last semifinals in France and repeating it already now, you can imagine that going to the finals has grown to sort of delirious atmosphere in
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GORANI: Well, there you have it. We'll see who wins out on Sunday.
This week, CNN is exploring a unique side of India. Today, we take a leap with thrill seekers above the Ganges. Take a look.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the Ganges River you know, the longest in India, and by far the most sacred. Here in the city of Rishikesh, pilgrims
travel thousands of miles to be purified by the waters what is known as Mother Ganges.
The destination's draw is so strong, even The Beatles came here to learn transcendental meditation from a local guru.
But today, that same powerful river is attracting a new kind of pilgrim, one who thrives on adrenaline.
It doesn't get much more exciting than this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one, jump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Jumpin Heights Rishikesh. A bungee jump in giant swing platform soaring above a tributary of the sacred river Ganges.
It's 83 meters high. They lead a land of a football pitch. And billed itself as the first permanent bungee jump in the entire country.
MANOJ KUMAR, COFOUNDER, JUMPIN HEIGHTS: This is the highest in India. And probably the only bungee jump in India. And we've been running it
successfully for the last eight years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Retired Colonel Manoj Kumar is one of the company's founders.
KUMAR: When you are jumping over, you have that feeling that you (INAUDIBLE) and it gives you more excitement also.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To date, 65,000 jumps have been made since the opening in 2010. Make that 65,001.
KUMAR: This is a once in a lifetime experience. People want to push themselves to the boundaries and see whether they can make it. And of
course, it gives them uphill and it has -- you can boast about it if you've done it.
GORANI: His owned business, multiple skyscrapers, the U.S. presidency. What do you get for a man who has it all? Well, protesters in London have
a big idea. We'll be right back.
[15:50:20] GORANI: You heard part of my interview earlier with Peter Westmacott, former British ambassador to the United States. We also talked
about Mr. Trump's tough talk against NATO allies and his reluctance to criticize Vladimir Putin.
GORANI: The perception is that the U.S. president is attacking allies and being a lot more charitable with the leader of North Korea, Kim Jong-un, or
saying positive things about the president of Russia, Vladimir Putin. Do you believe -- what do you think, do you think there's a strategy behind
PETER WESTMACOTT, FORMER BRITISH AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: I think a lot of this is impulsive and remember that --
GORANI: But there's a pattern, because it seems like it's more than impulse.
WESTMACOTT: There's a pattern of saying some critical things about Britain, about Canada, about Mexico, about Germany, even about the French
president, all of that is true. But then quite often he grabs it back and says more complimentary remarks afterwards. America doesn't have a
monopoly on politicians who kind of a bit vainglorious and thump their chest and play fast and loose with some of the facts and some of the
things. We got someone --
GORANI: Are you talking about Boris Yeltsin?
WESTMACOTT: I'm not mentioning any names.
GORANI: What's the government if that's who you are referring to?
WESTMACOTT: Not unique to America. So, yes. So I think we have to live with a different sort of president.
GORANI: Well, pomp and circumstance amid protests and controversy, there's some mixed messages for U.S. President Trump as he visits London. Because
while he may be receiving a ceremonial welcome at Blenheim Palace, protesters in London are planning out on -- planning on rolling out the red
carpet, instead they're bringing out a big orange balloon. Mr. Trump is shrugging it off, of course, saying people in the U.K. actually like him,
quote, a lot.
Let's hear from one of the co-organizers of the so-called Trump baby blimp. Sheila Menon who joins me here live. So you applied for permission with
Sadiq Khan, the office of Sadiq Khan, the mayor of London, to fly this giant baby Trump balloon.
SHEILA MENON, CO-ORGANIZER, TRUMP BABY BLIMP: That's correct.
GORANI: What will happen? What's the plan with it?
MENON: We have permission to fly it in Parliament Square Garden, office of House of Parliament tomorrow morning at -- well, between 9:30 and 11:30.
GORANI: In the morning?
MENON: In the morning. Yes.
GORANI: And you hope that the president will see it>
MENON: I mean, the president will for sure see images of it. I think he's already seen images of it. And I think we've been very successful already
in running him out of town. I mean, he's not coming to London because -- or he's spending very little time in London because of the protests that
are happening here.
GORANI: So, what would you like to achieve by doing that?
MENON: This balloon that we have -- this large inflatable is a way of speaking the language that Trump taught. It's satirical political humor
where we can really get to him because we know that he's thin-skinned with his overinflated ego and throwing his toys out to France. But we're using
this humorous stunt, if you like, to highlight the very real and serious issues around Trump's hate fueled toxic politics and policies that are
having devastating impact on people all over the world.
GORANI: So you know Piers Morgan who anchors a morning show here in Britain, he was on CNN, in fact for a few years, he had a talk show. He
said this is juvenile essentially and imagine doing something similar with Barack Obama, you have a baby Barack Obama flying over. Just because you
don't agree with his policies, that essentially it's rude.
MENON: We have a long tradition in Britain of political satirical humor. And I feel that this is British humor at its finest actually. I think that
just the idea of portraying Trump as a baby in a diaper is not new. We have just taken it and run with it a little bit, and we've made him
overinflated, yes, a mobile phone in his hand, so that he can -- ready to tweet, as we know, he's no stranger to Twitter. And so really we're just
speaking his humor, his language. If you listen to the way Trump is talking and the way that he speaks on social media, through his policies
and his politics, actually we're just speaking a language he understands.
[15:55:32] GORANI: Freddy Gray of The Spectator said this is playing right into his hand because his supporters will look at this and say see, this
intelligence, these elites in the big cities, you know, we want them to -- good because we're the -- soul of America. We don't need these foreigners
to tell us in these big cities to tell us who to like, who to elect.
MENON: Trump, the policies that Trump has, his politics are very isolationary. It's putting America up pitting up against all other
countries. Trump's only interest is in American politics and the position of America in the world. Where we're coming -- these people are protesting
from all over the country and in all the other countries that Trump is visiting. And this is about people getting behind the unified message to
show their discontent, to show that we don't want our government to be aligning itself with these hate fueled policies of Trump, and giving rise
to the far right all across the world and policies full of racism, xenophobia, misogyny.
GORANI: We got to leave it there for this hour. Sheila Menon, the co- organizer of the baby blimp. Thanks for joining us on the program. "QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next. I'll see you tomorrow.